Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[dream1ng]

The thing with Capcom is that even if they have a number of series they aren't focusing on, even their lesser known franchises and characters still have a good amount of fans, and compared to Nintendo, Capcom certainly acknowledges them with more than just re-releases and whatnot, whether it'd be crossovers, costumes, shout-outs or whatnot. Also helps that some of their developers are also fans of these series.

Like there is a reason why even besides Capcom's Top 5 of Street Fighter, Mega Man, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry and Monster Hunter, you still have notable support for even lesser known series and characters and even find quite a bunch of people who may not support these characters, but would still be good with them, like Strider, Ace Attorney, Ghosts'n Goblins, Okami, Final Fight, Viewtiful Joe, etc. And heck, you still have people wanting series yet to appear in the Vs. Capcom series of games to appear in those games, like Breath of Fire, Sengoku Basara, Red Earth and Power Stone and even some of their developers wanted them in.

Capcom probably has the most popular set of characters behind or maybe even alongside Nintendo. And it truly shows when there isn't alot of opposition to smaller Capcom franchises getting in Smash Bros. Nor to a Nintendo vs Capcom crossover.

Well, there used to be support for smaller Nintendo series when it both wasn't as obvious that Nintendo didn't give a **** about most non-current first-party series and before the third-parties appropriated a great deal of attention and roster space.

Back during the Brawl and early 4 days, there was support for Andy, Starfy, Saki, Ray Mk, Lip, Takamaru, Sukapon, Dillon, Mach Rider, Wonder Red, Chibi-Robo, etc etc. But those additions became seen as implausible once people realized what kind of series get attention, so it gradually dried up, with the only one left being Isaac, who sort of vaulted past the defeatism by having ascended to fan favorite. But he's still not in.

Capcom's fighters and Smash operate differently, where Capcom will just go back and take random, kind of popular characters. Smash would never add a character like Jedah, but MvC would. On the other hand, if Mega Man were a Nintendo IP, they'd never cut Mega Man himself, let alone while keeping Tron Bonne. They just have different priorities.

Also keep in mind Capcom has flexibility Nintendo doesn't because Capcom will make huge cuts to its rosters between games, cutting out entire IP.

And that Nintendo has like 20 of their own IP in Smash already. I think that's more than make up the Capcom side of any given roster. This fanbase is just conditioned into, unfortunately, knowing asking for something from, like, Sin & Punishment isn't going to amount to anything. If a new IP pops up though, it will still get attention, look at ARMS and Astral Chain and Ring Fit.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Technically, the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games actually predated Ninja Gaiden on the NES so I believe Lu Bu showed up on a Nintendo console before Hyabusa did but I get what you’re saying. Like I was saying in my earlier post, I personally feel like both Hyabusa and Lu Bu deserve a spot in Smash and there are definitely strong arguments in favor of Hyabusa. I just think a lot of people overlook the Warriors franchise and just assume that Ninja Gaiden is the only possible choice for the first Koei-Tecmo rep.

While Ninja Gaiden was definitely huge on the NES and had a very successful reboot on the X-Box 360, it was only really relevant for those two generations (as far as I’m aware). Dynasty Warriors spawned an entire genre that has been very relevant for every console generation since the PS2. It’s true that Ryu Hyabusa has appeared in various games as a guest like Dead or Alive and Warriors Orochi, which definitely speaks to his popularity. However, I feel like the various spin-offs of Dynasty Warriors including several from properties already represented in Smash (Zelda, Fire Emblem, Persona, and Dragon Quest) are at least as important.

There are a few reasons I decided to go with Lu Bu as a rep for the Musou series in general. The first is that I believe he’s the most recognizable to the general gaming audience. Even several people that don’t play Dynasty Warriors have heard the legends of “Don’t pursue Lu Bu”. I feel like he’s essentially the Scorpion to Zhao Yun’s Liu Kang. Zhao Yun is also a bit boring personality-wise. Lu Bu also has a unique weapon and a badass attitude. His theme song is also the main theme of Dynasty Warriors. I feel like he’s one of the few cases where choosing the villain over the hero is the logical choice.

Well, I thought we were talking specifically about Dynasty Warriors but if you want to talk about Romance of the Three Kingdoms, even back then, Ninja Gaiden and Ryu Hayabusa were much more well-known compared to Lu Bu for obvious reasons.

I can picture Lu Bu making some kind of appearance in Smash but as far as being a playable character, he is going to have an uphill battle with Hayabusa and maybe even Ayane since she's also mascot material. Not that his chances are completely low, though. No doubt Dynasty Warriors is such a huge influence that, as you just mentioned, even series that are in Smash have had some spin-offs made from them. So a case can be made for Lu Bu but due to Hayabusa being a much more popular request, as well as being a much more active character, it should be no surprise if he is the first Koei Tecmo character. Lu Bu could be the second one, though.

 

[Geno Boost]

I mean, most of them are interesting picks in general. And Morrigan may be the more general and boring pick, but I mean, it's not often you can say that you can play as a succubus in a Nintendo game.

I would say playing as a Rotten Corpse and a Flame is also a rare thing in a Nintendo game

 

[silenthunder]

I would say playing as a Rotten Corpse and a Flame is also a rare thing in a Nintendo game

 

[Geno Boost]

View attachment 356862

He is a robot though

 

[silenthunder]

He is a robot though

"Honou is a limb-less character. He is composed entirely of fire (his name, when translated into English, even means flame)." -Nintendo.fandom.com

 

[Geno Boost]

"Honou is a limb-less character. He is composed entirely of fire (his name, when translated into English, even means flame)." -Nintendo.fandom.com

I played Joy Mech Fight it was all in Japanese so I couldn’t read texts but if his description is that then I guess we’re lucky to have him because I like Honou

 

[silenthunder]

I played Joy Mech Fight it was all in Japanese so I couldn’t read texts but if his description is that then I guess we’re lucky to have him because I like Honou

My main was Tiger who's based off of Sagat from Street Fighter

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I'm interested to know when people can open new Newcomer Support threads. Do we usually wait until the official announcement of the next Smash game?

Either way, when the time comes, you know who'll be making Ribbon Girl, Viridi and Grima threads.

 

[silenthunder]

I want to see who people want in smash, but it don't make sense to until we know who's getting cut. I also want to make a Khameleon thread which nobody will follow. I'd rather not make a thread unless I have to because I probably won't put as much effort in it as someone else. Unless its a poll. I love polls.
Edit: I'm going to make a thread to bring back Mario

 

[Diddy Kong]

The tricky thing here is that there are better options for even this - I think if we wanted to give the classic DK arcade games a character, I think DK. Jr would be the better option.

Or Cranky Kong to some extent

 

[Gengar84]

Well, I thought we were talking specifically about Dynasty Warriors but if you want to talk about Romance of the Three Kingdoms, even back then, Ninja Gaiden and Ryu Hayabusa were much more well-known compared to Lu Bu for obvious reasons.

I can picture Lu Bu making some kind of appearance in Smash but as far as being a playable character, he is going to have an uphill battle with Hayabusa and maybe even Ayane since she's also mascot material. Not that his chances are completely low, though. No doubt Dynasty Warriors is such a huge influence that, as you just mentioned, even series that are in Smash have had some spin-offs made from them. So a case can be made for Lu Bu but due to Hayabusa being a much more popular request, as well as being a much more active character, it should be no surprise if he is the first Koei Tecmo character. Lu Bu could be the second one, though.

I think Ryu Hyabusa is basically inevitable at some point but I’m having a hard time imagining a Dead or Alive rep in Smash Bros. Not that it couldn’t happen, but I feel like there are still tons of other potential fighting game characters we should get before DOA.

Im honestly not too worried who we get first between Hyabusa and Lu Bu because I have a strong feeling that we’re going to get one in the base game and the other as DLC in the same Smash game. I feel like Hyabusa will likely be chosen for the base game due to fan demand and Lu Bu will be a DLC character. It’s definitely not uncommon for a developer to get multiple characters in one Smash game and Koei-Tecmo has proven more than worthy for more than one thanks to all their support they’ve given to Nintendo in recent years.

 

[Quillion]

I still think using any of the late Han/Three Kingdoms Chinese characters in Dynasty Warriors is rather dangerous territory. Sure, these historical guys have been re-interpreted over and over and over again, and that's not reserved to Koei.

Still, they are real people, and not those who have given Nintendo the permission to use their likeness like Dr. Ryuta Kawashima. There are a lot of ethical concerns here that even Guanzhong's novel is subject to.

Even the original Dracula is left ambiguous as to whether he's Vlad the Impaler or not, only with later adaptations explicitly him making Vlad the Impaler. And even then Castlevania focuses more on his additional past as Mathias probably due to these concerns.

 

[Gengar84]

I still think using any of the late Han/Three Kingdoms Chinese characters in Dynasty Warriors is rather dangerous territory. Sure, these historical guys have been re-interpreted over and over and over again, and that's not reserved to Koei.

Still, they are real people, and not those who have given Nintendo the permission to use their likeness like Dr. Ryuta Kawashima. There are a lot of ethical concerns here that even Guanzhong's novel is subject to.

Even the original Dracula is left ambiguous as to whether he's Vlad the Impaler or not, only with later adaptations explicitly him making Vlad the Impaler. And even then Castlevania focuses more on his additional past as Mathias probably due to these concerns.

That’s true. I can see that being the one potential hurdle that might prevent Lu Bu or another Dynast or Samurai Warriors character from joining Smash. They could always go with Orochi or Orochi X from Warriors Orochi to represent the franchise as a whole. He’s another solid option that makes a lot of sense and isn’t based on a real life person at least.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The only Koei Tecmo character am really interested in is Age of Calamity Impa. And am not even sure if she's owned by them, it's probably still Nintendo.

 

[Gengar84]

The only Koei Tecmo character am really interested in is Age of Calamity Impa. And am not even sure if she's owned by them, it's probably still Nintendo.

I’m almost 100% positive she’s still owned by Nintendo since she was made for a game from their license but I could be wrong. She’s also just a different version of an already established character owned by Nintendo. I’ll always stand by the OG Hyrule Warriors Impa as far as Smash goes. She’s much more my style of character compared to her portrayal in AoC.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think Ryu Hyabusa is basically inevitable at some point but I’m having a hard time imagining a Dead or Alive rep in Smash Bros. Not that it couldn’t happen, but I feel like there are still tons of other potential fighting game characters we should get before DOA.

Im honestly not too worried who we get first between Hyabusa and Lu Bu because I have a strong feeling that we’re going to get one in the base game and the other as DLC in the same Smash game. I feel like Hyabusa will likely be chosen for the base game due to fan demand and Lu Bu will be a DLC character. It’s definitely not uncommon for a developer to get multiple characters in one Smash game and Koei-Tecmo has proven more than worthy for more than one thanks to all their support they’ve given to Nintendo in recent years.

It's just the way Ayane is being promoted by Koei Tecmo. Like Hayabusa, she too has made numerous appearances outside of her own series, including the Warriors games. She was also in one of the Fatal Frame games, which, if I'm not mistaken, was requested by Nintendo themselves, so she may even be a personal favorite of theirs.

Of course, there's also a good chance that Kasumi (who also happens to be my personal favorite) could be a rep too, as someone who works on the DOA series said he would like to see her in Smash. She's made some decent amount of non-DOA appearances of her own too, such as in King of Fighters All-Stars.

DOA is pretty much up there with the other big names in the fighting game genre. Then there's it's developer Team Ninja working with Nintendo on Metroid Other M. So I say it makes sense to have some kind of representation in Smash. Though in the end, Hayabusa is all I need. To me, he represents the Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive, and Koei Warriors series.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

 

[Sucumbio]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

Waluigi.

 

[osby]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

Bayonetta 2 and Bayonetta 3.

It's wild how we still have only one Bayonetta despite the series being ongoing for more than a decade.

 

[Megadoomer]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

I felt like we could have used more echo fighters, either in the the base game or as cheaper DLC. (somewhere between the Mii costumes and full fighters in terms of pricing - maybe $2 or 3?) Octoling from Splatoon, Jeanne from Bayonetta, and a Sonic character (Shadow? Metal Sonic? Tails, if they stretch it and make him like Chrom or Ken?) seem like pretty easy inclusions that could have expanded on those franchises with little effort.

 

[fogbadge]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

toad

 

[Laniv]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

Toad, first on the list. Dixie Kong, second. Tom Nook, Bomberman, Bandana Dee, Spring Man, Isaac, Elma...
Honestly, Pauline, King Boo, Sans, Cuphead, and Geno a little bit.

Shout-out to anyone who wanted another Sonic character.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Shout-out to anyone who wanted another Sonic character.

Oh I wanted one alright. Just not a popular pick

She's from the Deadly Six for one thing...and the fact I called her "she" should tip you off on who I wanted

 

[SPEN18]

What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Another way to look at this besides just listing all the characters I think should have been in but weren't:

Characters whose chances would have been most affected by a smaller number of unique newcomer slots in base. So the types of characters who in a more Smash-4-esque assortment would make it into the project plan but be in the latter half/third of the newcomers priority-wise. Many different characters could potentially fall into this, but perhaps think along the lines of the later Smash 4 reveals like Bowser Jr., Shulk, or Duck Hunt. Several such characters didn't really benefit from the DLC expanding the total number of newcomer slots because of the different nature of those slots compared to base game ones.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Oh I wanted one alright. Just not a popular pick

She's from the Deadly Six for one thing...and the fact I called her "she" should tip you off on who I wanted

I know, you wanted Witchcart!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

Dixie Kong, probably a new Zelda character, Bandana Dee, Captain Toad

 

[fogbadge]

toad

while I’m at it chibi-robo

 

[Sucumbio]

I mean Sonic really is a franchise in smash since brawl as is Snake and with just 1 rep ea and then Assists so ... Either that's their fate or not. I'd welcome a new fighter from either series.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I mean Sonic really is a franchise in smash since brawl as is Snake and with just 1 rep ea and then Assists so ... Either that's their fate or not. I'd welcome a new fighter from either series.

Even if it's Zeena?

Now here's another question: apart from Sonic, what franchise deserves a newcomer most, and who would you want to see?

My answer is obvious: Kid Icarus, and the newcomer should be Viridi. With Kirby/Susie as a runner-up. I almost wanted to answer ARMS/Ribbon Girl out of bias

 

[Quillion]

Pink Yoshi : TBH, I think every first-party character who's ever been marketed is already in Smash, so any new first party character will just be part of a concentrated effort to market an older, obscure character.

 

[Sucumbio]

Even if it's Zeena?

Now here's another question: apart from Sonic, what franchise deserves a newcomer most, and who would you want to see?

My answer is obvious: Kid Icarus, and the newcomer should be Viridi. With Kirby/Susie as a runner-up. I almost wanted to answer ARMS/Ribbon Girl out of bias

Hmm... Sure!

But for Kid Icarus

Just my cuppa

Pink Yoshi : TBH, I think every first-party character who's ever been marketed is already in Smash, so any new first party character will just be part of a concentrated effort to market an older, obscure character.

Is that okay?

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Hell yea boy #Zeena4Smash6 #TheNextPiranhaPlant

And Phosphora would be fine with me, I mean she's an assist trophy after all. Might as well give her the Belle treatment. Heck, she could probably snatch the Lightning Chariot from Pit for her Final Smash.

And regarding older, obscure characters...well I wouldn't mind Professor Hector from ROB's games

 

[SPEN18]

I think every first-party character who's ever been marketed is already in Smash,

Er, that's false. It's hard to determine a good place to begin elaborating without further prompt or explanation of what your threshold for being "marketed" is, though.

 

[dream1ng]

Pink Yoshi : TBH, I think every first-party character who's ever been marketed is already in Smash, so any new first party character will just be part of a concentrated effort to market an older, obscure character.

What? You do realize that every game Nintendo releases gets marketed, right? And we don't have a character from every game Nintendo has released.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I just remembered.

Waluigi wasn't the most painful assist trophy deconfirm for me. Nay, it was Nintendog. Their first game was one of the bestselling titles on one of the bestselling consoles in video games. And I do see moveset potential with all their funky tricks and cool toys. If the Duck Hunt dog can get in, I don't see why Nintendog can't.

Nintendog's assist trophy isn't even that good anyway.

 

[Lenidem]

Waluigi wasn't the most painful assist trophy deconfirm for me.

For me, it was... well, you can probably guess.

 

[fogbadge]

Pink Yoshi : TBH, I think every first-party character who's ever been marketed is already in Smash, so any new first party character will just be part of a concentrated effort to market an older, obscure character.

tell that to toad and bandana dee

I just remembered.

Waluigi wasn't the most painful assist trophy deconfirm for me. Nay, it was Nintendog. Their first game was one of the bestselling titles on one of the bestselling consoles in video games. And I do see moveset potential with all their funky tricks and cool toys. If the Duck Hunt dog can get in, I don't see why Nintendog can't.

Nintendog's assist trophy isn't even that good anyway.

well nintendogs is still one of nintendos top 10 best selling franchises so never say never

 

[Sucumbio]

Hell yea boy #Zeena4Smash6 #TheNextPiranhaPlant

And Phosphora would be fine with me, I mean she's an assist trophy after all. Might as well give her the Belle treatment. Heck, she could probably snatch the Lightning Chariot from Pit for her Final Smash.

And regarding older, obscure characters...well I wouldn't mind Professor Hector from ROB's games

I guess I didn't actually answer your first question tho...

I want Rygar darn it.

 

[Geno Boost]

Since we're talking about the characters we wish were in Smash most right now; here's a kinda-related question. What characters do you think got snubbed the most for Smash Ultimate additions?

Spoiler

And why is it Viridi?

Geno, Bomberman, Shadow, Waluigi, Isaac, Rayman