Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ARandomFruit]

Just a quick question here to stir things differently a bit, if you had to include another Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem character, who'd you pick? Seeing as there are always newcomers from these series (almost) with each game, they're are almost inevitable. Might as well have fun with the possibilities.

If we're going by personal preference I'd choose:
Smithy
Marshadow
Fjorm

If it's "more likely" characters I'd choose:
Toad
Hisuian Decidueye
Kiran

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For M/P/F...

Toad(no, not the Captain). Waluigi is easily my secondary choice.
Genesect(while I love Gen III more, I'm not sure who I'd want the most. Possibly Deoxys)
Hector(Axe, baby)

 

[SPEN18]

Just a quick question here to stir things differently a bit, if you had to include another Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem character, who'd you pick?

Mario: I'll add a vote for Toad, though Waluigi could just as easily have gotten the nod.

PKMN: There are many good options at about the same level for me, so I will just go with the biased choice: Garchomp.

FE: Lyn, the most obviously important FE character remaining. Given the nature of the rotating cast in FE, when you get a character with such lasting popularity who also stars in a pivotal game for the franchise historically ("Western Marth"), you should take advantage. I get that people like Anna and Tiki because they recur, but they're only moderately important at best in any of their appearances. I don't think of Lyn as any less unique, either.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As a compromise, Square Enix will allow the return of Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth, & Sora in Smash...



...in Non-Fungible Token form, per SE's new idiom:

 

[Gengar84]

Depends, am fitter now at age 31 than I was at age 23. But yeah, get this age first and see for yourself

Also it was a surprisingly good argument that Sora could return a second time, because nowhere is it implied the second time would be harder than a first time here.

Arguments about usage of guns also got interesting. I don't care about either the gun rule or the return of Sora all that much honestly, but still, enjoyable reads.

Just a quick question here to stir things differently a bit, if you had to include another Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem character, who'd you pick? Seeing as there are always newcomers from these series (almost) with each game, they're are almost inevitable. Might as well have fun with the possibilities.

I'd choose:

Captain Toad
Garchomp
Dimitri

Going strictly by personal preference, I’d say

Goomba (or Goombella)
Gengar
The Black Knight

None of them are completely unrealistic at least seeing as Goomba is the most iconic generic enemy in gaming, Gengar is one of the most popular Pokémon, and the Black Knight has both an assist trophy and a Mii outfit. Still, they probably aren’t the most likely choices either.

 

[Sucumbio]

Toad
Gengar
Black Knight

 

[Gengar84]

Toad
Gengar
Black Knight

I like your style

 

[Yamat08]

Just a quick question here to stir things differently a bit, if you had to include another Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem character, who'd you pick? Seeing as there are always newcomers from these series (almost) with each game, they're are almost inevitable. Might as well have fun with the possibilities.

Mario: Geno. Though if you're not counting Squenix Mario characters, I'd go with Wart. I actually advocated him as a Bowser Echo, though now I guess I should say he could work as a semi-clone of Bowser (replace the fire breath with the bubble breath, though not sure about the Whirling Fortress).
Pokemon: Sceptile
Fire Emblem: Tiki. I did advocate having Anna as a playable, but looking back on it, I wonder if that's because she seems like the closest thing to a series-wide rep, or just because Tiki got deconfirmed as an Assist early on (in fact, there were a lot of characters I was quick to write off because of their Assist Trophy status, which shouldn't be an issue going into Smash6).

 

[HyperSomari64]

That's Easy!!!
Mario: Baby Koopalings
Pokémon: Live-Action Mr. Mime
Fire Emblem: Mirage Caeda and Tsubasa Oribe

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just a quick question here to stir things differently a bit, if you had to include another Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem character, who'd you pick?

Captain Toad/Toadette
Garchomp or Kleavor
Black Knight as an Ike echo

 

[Lenidem]

- Captain Toad (or just regular Toad, + Toadette of course), followed by Waluigi or E. Gadd.

- Gold, the trainer, with Cyndaquil, Bayleef, and Feraligatr. Yep, I'm considering it as one. If not, then just Raichu.

- I don't play Fire Emblem, so I have no idea (and I would like to have fewer of them, to be honest).

 

[fogbadge]

Mario: I'll add a vote for Toad, though Waluigi could just as easily have gotten the nod.

PKMN: There are many good options at about the same level for me, so I will just go with the biased choice: Garchomp.

FE: Lyn, the most obviously important FE character remaining. Given the nature of the rotating cast in FE, when you get a character with such lasting popularity who also stars in a pivotal game for the franchise historically ("Western Marth"), you should take advantage. I get that people like Anna and Tiki because they recur, but they're only moderately important at best in any of their appearances. I don't think of Lyn as any less unique, either.

western marth?

 

[Gengar84]

Captain Toad/Toadette
Garchomp or Kleavor
Black Knight as an Ike echo

I personally love Sneasler and Hisuian Zoaroark as far as Legends Arceus Pokémon go. I could never get fully into Kleavor’s design. A lot of elements are really cool but at the same time, it looks kind of dumb. I probably would have liked it more if it wasn’t related to Scyther and Scizor, who were two of my favorite Bug types. It’s just hard to live up when the previous forms are so cool. Sneasel is my favorite Ice type but Weavile was always a bit of a disappointment to me even if it’s still cool. Sneasler keeps a lot of what I liked about Sneasel. Zoroark is among my favorite Dark types and I think it’s Hisuian form might actually be cooler.

 

[Sucumbio]

I personally love Sneasler and Hisuian Zoaroark as far as Legends Arceus Pokémon go. I could never get fully into Kleavor’s design. A lot of elements are really cool but at the same time, it looks kind of dumb. I probably would have liked it more if it wasn’t related to Scyther and Scizor, who were two of my favorite Bug types. It’s just hard to live up when the previous forms are so cool. Sneasel is my favorite Ice type but Weavile was always a bit of a disappointment to me even if it’s still cool. Sneasler keeps a lot of what I liked about Sneasel. Zoroark is among my favorite Dark types and I think it’s Hisuian form might actually be cooler.

I have always thought Zoroark would be a cool pokemon fighter. His speed and relentlessness, crazy damage...

 

[fogbadge]

Funnily enough hisuian zoroark would be better suited to pichus gimmick than pichu

 

[WaddleKing]

Depends, am fitter now at age 31 than I was at age 23. But yeah, get this age first and see for yourself

Also it was a surprisingly good argument that Sora could return a second time, because nowhere is it implied the second time would be harder than a first time here.

Arguments about usage of guns also got interesting. I don't care about either the gun rule or the return of Sora all that much honestly, but still, enjoyable reads.

Just a quick question here to stir things differently a bit, if you had to include another Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem character, who'd you pick? Seeing as there are always newcomers from these series (almost) with each game, they're are almost inevitable. Might as well have fun with the possibilities.

I'd choose:

Captain Toad
Garchomp
Dimitri

:
:
: Anna

 

[Gengar84]

I have always thought Zoroark would be a cool pokemon fighter. His speed and relentlessness, crazy damage...

I’d love to see Zoroark and Hisuian Zoroark both get in as alts. While they don’t currently share a ton of moves, Smash has taken some liberties with Ness and Simon/Richter so I don’t see that as an issue at all. The moveset could just pull from both forms. Not much in Smash really differentiates a Ghost move from a Dark move anyways. Shadow Claw and Night Slash are essentially the same move for the purposes of Smash.

 

[Jotari]

western marth?

First Fire Emblem protagonist introduced to the west. Since Marth's games were Japan only originally.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I personally love Sneasler and Hisuian Zoaroark as far as Legends Arceus Pokémon go. It’s just hard to live up when the previous forms are so cool. Sneasel is my favorite Ice type but Weavile was always a bit of a disappointment to me even if it’s still cool. Sneasler keeps a lot of what I liked about Sneasel.

I never liked the Sneasel line, and it pisses me off that they're still the only Dark/Ice Pokemon in the game.

 

[Gengar84]

I never liked the Sneasel line, and it pisses me off that they're still the only Dark/Ice Pokemon in the game.

Really? To each their own I suppose. Sneasel has always been one of my favorites. It, Houndoom, and Gligar are my top three favorite Gen 2 Pokémon. Weavile, while still pretty cool, kind of drags it down a bit for me personally, like most Gen 4 evolutions IMO. What puts you off about the line?

 

[fogbadge]

First Fire Emblem protagonist introduced to the west. Since Marth's games were Japan only originally.

i was under the impression that roy's dad was the main character of that game

 

[Diddy Kong]

i was under the impression that roy's dad was the main character of that game

He sort of is, there are three main characters and since you need to start with Lyn's route if you have no previous safe files, Lyn is the first character you encounter. Her and Hector share equal importance with Eliwood, Roy's father, who's easily the most boring of the three main characters (but he has some fans I guess).

Lyn would be a good character if we need a timeless Fire Emblem character, she's still heavily popular and Fire Emblem Heroes proofs this all the time.

 

[Gengar84]

He sort of is, there are three main characters and since you need to start with Lyn's route if you have no previous safe files, Lyn is the first character you encounter. Her and Hector share equal importance with Eliwood, Roy's father, who's easily the most boring of the three main characters (but he has some fans I guess).

Lyn would be a good character if we need a timeless Fire Emblem character, she's still heavily popular and Fire Emblem Heroes proofs this all the time.

I’m not going to lie. Lynn is a cool character and it would be awesome to have a katana based moveset in Smash but that’s not the main reason I want her. I’m probably the only person that mostly wants Lynn because she’s played by my favorite voice actress, Wendee Lee. Still, I do think it would be cool to see a villain from the series since we already have so many heroes, so I went with the Black Knight. Path of Radiance was my first Fire Emblem game and the Black Knight has such an awesome design.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I’m not going to lie. Lynn is a cool character and it would be awesome to have a katana based moveset in Smash but that’s not the main reason I want her. I’m probably the only person that mostly wants Lynn because she’s played by my favorite voice actress, Wendee Lee. Still, I do think it would be cool to see a villain from the series since we already have so many heroes, so I went with the Black Knight. Path of Radiance was my first Fire Emblem game and the Black Knight has such an awesome design.

I'd love the Black Knight actually, Lyn too. I voted Dimitri though because well, he's a very well written character I feel and his moveset would be amazing to behold in Smash.

Yeah sure Byleth already uses his weapon, but I want Byleth to play like themselves in Smash, focusing all attacks around the Creator Sword, magic and a little brawling. Like they did in Three Houses as their canon class.

But honestly , I could take a bunch of Fire Emblem characters honestly. Dimitri, Black Knight, Lyn, Pegasus Sisters (Palla, Catria and Est as alts like Bowser Jr.)... But I don't make the decisions lol

Pokemon and Mario also have a lot of characters I'd feel are awesome, unique, popular and we'll fitting. Hence I asked this question.

With other big franchises as DK, Zelda and Kirby the choices are more straightforward, that's why I liked the replies with Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem here.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd love the Black Knight actually, Lyn too. I voted Dimitri though because well, he's a very well written character I feel and his moveset would be amazing to behold in Smash.

Yeah sure Byleth already uses his weapon, but I want Byleth to play like themselves in Smash, focusing all attacks around the Creator Sword, magic and a little brawling. Like they did in Three Houses as their canon class.

But honestly , I could take a bunch of Fire Emblem characters honestly. Dimitri, Black Knight, Lyn, Pegasus Sisters (Palla, Catria and Est as alts like Bowser Jr.)... But I don't make the decisions lol

Pokemon and Mario also have a lot of characters I'd feel are awesome, unique, popular and we'll fitting. Hence I asked this question.

With other big franchises as DK, Zelda and Kirby the choices are more straightforward, that's why I liked the replies with Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem here.

Dimitri was an awesome character. I was actually hoping for him over Byleth even though that was unlikely. His was the only route I played to completion. I also loved Petra, Felix, Shamir, Katherine, and Bernadette but I don’t think any of them ever had any chance. Edelgarde is cool too.

 

[fogbadge]

Oh hang on I was getting dimitri and Claude mixed up

how embarrassing

 

[Gengar84]

Oh hang on I was getting dimitri and Claude mixed up

Claude’s voice actor is a cool guy. I’ve watched a lot of his videos on YouTube and he does an awesome cover with FamilyJules of a song from Three Houses. He always felt kind of like a third wheel in game though. That might change if I played his route.

 

[fogbadge]

Claude’s voice actor is a cool guy. I’ve watched a lot of his videos on YouTube and he does an awesome cover with FamilyJules of a song from Three Houses. He always felt kind of like a third wheel in game though. That might change if I played his route.

I can see what you mean about 3rd wheel due to no connection to the other two. He still feels more connected than byleth

 

[Gengar84]

I can see what you mean about 3rd wheel due to no connection to the other two. He still feels more connected than byleth

I have a hard time thinking of silent avatars like Byleth as individual characters. I never really connect with them or care much about them so I tend to not even bring them up when talking about characters from their games. I did like Joker since he has a really cool design. Makoto and Yusuke were still my favorites from his game though.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm currently working on a project where Ultimate had more minor 3rd party content in the base game.

 

[fogbadge]

I have a hard time thinking of silent avatars like Byleth as individual characters. I never really connect with them or care much about them so I tend to not even bring them up when talking about characters from their games. I did like Joker since he has a really cool design. Makoto and Yusuke were still my favorites from his game though.

yeah I get that. Although connecting with a character isn’t something I often do

though I’ve never played persona 5 so I don’t know who they are

 

[Delzethin]

Fire Emblem avatars have a weird place in the FE fandom. On one hand, casual fans will project themselves onto them like they would a typical blank slate protagonist, especially right after the game has come out. But the more dedicated fans treat the avatars as their own characters who we happen to experience the game from the viewpoint of, and over time the casual fans start following suit as well.

Especially once everyone's played through the story. Because in practice, neither Robin, Corrin, or Byleth are actual blank slates. They have established identities, backstories, and--if you squint a little and check their support conversations and their depictions in Heroes--personalities. They're closer to Commander Shepard or how Joker is handled in P5 than they are to Dragon Quest's Heroes.

I imagine Shez will be the same way, though Three Hopes is a spinoff so who knows how much typical FE storytelling will apply.

 

[Gengar84]

yeah I get that. Although connecting with a character isn’t something I often do

though I’ve never played persona 5 so I don’t know who they are

I suppose connecting isn’t quite the right word for me either. I don’t often personally identify with characters the way a lot of people seem to. That’s why I still love characters that are either villainous or just not very nice people. It’s more that I just really think the character is cool and I like them. I never really understood people hating on a character because you wouldn’t want to hang out with them in real life. As long as they’re entertaining in the game, that’s all that matters to me. I don’t think I’d want to be friends with Sephiroth or Ganondorf but they’re my two favorite characters in Smash.

Fire Emblem avatars have a weird place in the FE fandom. On one hand, casual fans will project themselves onto them like they would a typical blank slate protagonist, especially right after the game has come out. But the more dedicated fans treat the avatars as their own characters who we happen to experience the game from the viewpoint of, and over time the casual fans start following suit as well.

Especially once everyone's played through the story. Because in practice, neither Robin, Corrin, or Byleth are actual blank slates. They have established identities, backstories, and--if you squint a little and check their support conversations and their depictions in Heroes--personalities. They're closer to Commander Shepard or how Joker is handled in P5 than they are to Dragon Quest's Heroes.

I imagine Shez will be the same way, though Three Hopes is a spinoff so who knows how much typical FE storytelling will apply.

I thought Robin was actually really well done as far as avatar characters go. They were actually one of my favorite characters in Awakening. They still felt like a fully fleshed out character while still being customizable. Even then, I wasn’t as excited for them in Smash because my Robin looked and sounded nothing like the default and had a different name so it was almost like she was a completely different character. That’s the issue I have with avatars. Even if they were done well, it’s hard to carry over what I liked about them without bringing in all the customization options, which would be way too much work.

 

[Dinoman96]

I do wonder how people would react if Lyn somehow got in.

On one hand, another FE swords(wo)man, yeah yeah. But on the other hand, Lyn is actually a genuine popular legacy fan favorite, she's a tad bit more comparable to Ridley, Isaac, K. Rool, Krystal, Geno, etc than she is with Byleth or Corrin.

 

[PeridotGX]

my hot take is that avatar characters and silent-protagonists are usually bad - not in Smash, but as a whole. It makes it harder to identify with a character if they have none. When I play a game, I usually don't want the player character to be a digital representation of me - I want to play as an interesting character of their own. Part of the reason games like Devil May Cry and Metal Gear Solid are so beloved is because their main characters have so much personality. There are some situations where a silent protagonist/avatar works (Games like Pokemon and Minecraft are all about customization and as such having a character be "yours" is nice, Kris from Deltarune is a deconstruction of the trope, and I think Link being silent is too important to his character to remove), but generally I think games would benefit from having a defining main character instead of a generic avatar. Joker is one of the worst examples of this, he's barely a self insert of all. Why not let him speak, give him a canon name, and let him be a compelling character? The 3DS FE avatars have the opposite problem - they're completely voiced characters, but the customization means they don't have a consistent design, hindering their recognizability. I'd even say recent Pokemon games have had such boring main character designs because they fully expect you to customize them.

 

[fogbadge]

I suppose connecting isn’t quite the right word for me either. I don’t often personally identify with characters the way a lot of people seem to. That’s why I still love characters that are either villainous or just not very nice people. It’s more that I just really think the character is cool and I like them. I never really understood people hating on a character because you wouldn’t want to hang out with them in real life. As long as they’re entertaining in the game, that’s all that matters to me. I don’t think I’d want to be friends with Sephiroth or Ganondorf but they’re my two favorite characters in Smash.

ive only ever identified with two fictional characters. neither of whom were video game characters or human. the idea that people can only like characters they could be friends with is an odd one, i mean i love link but im sure we wouldnt get on in the real world.

Fire Emblem avatars have a weird place in the FE fandom. On one hand, casual fans will project themselves onto them like they would a typical blank slate protagonist, especially right after the game has come out. But the more dedicated fans treat the avatars as their own characters who we happen to experience the game from the viewpoint of, and over time the casual fans start following suit as well.

as for projecting myself onto avatars i can only seem to do that with pokemon trainers, villagers and inklings/octolings to an extent. of course thats had the knock on effect of me feeling like im being gatekpeered into taking on pokemon leagues

 

[osby]

my hot take is that avatar characters and silent-protagonists are usually bad - not in Smash, but as a whole. It makes it harder to identify with a character if they have none. When I play a game, I usually don't want the player character to be a digital representation of me - I want to play as an interesting character of their own. Part of the reason games like Devil May Cry and Metal Gear Solid are so beloved is because their main characters have so much personality. There are some situations where a silent protagonist/avatar works (Games like Pokemon and Minecraft are all about customization and as such having a character be "yours" is nice, Kris from Deltarune is a deconstruction of the trope, and I think Link being silent is too important to his character to remove), but generally I think games would benefit from having a defining main character instead of a generic avatar. Joker is one of the worst examples of this, he's barely a self insert of all. Why not let him speak, give him a canon name, and let him be a compelling character? The 3DS FE avatars have the opposite problem - they're completely voiced characters, but the customization means they don't have a consistent design, hindering their recognizability. I'd even say recent Pokemon games have had such boring main character designs because they fully expect you to customize them.

I can see where you're coming from in the case of avatars but I don't agree that silent protagonists are an unsuccessful way to project yourself to games.

A lot of JRPGs use silent protags because well, they are literally role-playing games, which are inherently defined by how they give player choices to shape the story and/or gameplay. If a game's story is shaped by your decisions, I think it's counterintuitive for developers to fix every single aspect of the main character right out of the game because it cheapens the choices the player makes.

Sure, there are a lot of games where a defined character needs to make important decisions but it's a lot more flexible when their personality is implicit and up to interpretation. Then the player actually has to face why they choose to project certain qualities into their main character and cannot shift the responsibility into their pre-determined character. I think that's different from simply inserting yourself into the story, it's roleplaying in its purest form. You can argue that it's common for this feature to be underused or mishandled but that doesn't mean the trope itself is inherently flawed.

Speaking of Joker, I think the main reason Megami Tensei protagonists are so popular in the fandom despite their silent status is that, most of the time they really fit well into the type of psychological or moral dilemmas presented in their stories. Due to their loose (but existant) characterization, it's way easier to see them taking the different paths presented to them.

 

[Gengar84]

my hot take is that avatar characters and silent-protagonists are usually bad - not in Smash, but as a whole. It makes it harder to identify with a character if they have none. When I play a game, I usually don't want the player character to be a digital representation of me - I want to play as an interesting character of their own. Part of the reason games like Devil May Cry and Metal Gear Solid are so beloved is because their main characters have so much personality. There are some situations where a silent protagonist/avatar works (Games like Pokemon and Minecraft are all about customization and as such having a character be "yours" is nice, Kris from Deltarune is a deconstruction of the trope, and I think Link being silent is too important to his character to remove), but generally I think games would benefit from having a defining main character instead of a generic avatar. Joker is one of the worst examples of this, he's barely a self insert of all. Why not let him speak, give him a canon name, and let him be a compelling character? The 3DS FE avatars have the opposite problem - they're completely voiced characters, but the customization means they don't have a consistent design, hindering their recognizability. I'd even say recent Pokemon games have had such boring main character designs because they fully expect you to customize them.

It’s funny because Chrono Trigger is possibly my favorite game ever but I completely agree with you. I often find it hard to care about silent avatar characters. Even Crono himself only interests me in Smash because of the moveset potential of using other party members. I’ve always liked every other character more, especially Magus, Frog, and Ayla. I also love the Persona series despite having silent protagonists because the rest of the characters are so entertaining. For some reason Joker never bothered me as much as Byleth in their games but I could never really explain why that is.

 

[SPEN18]

I do wonder how people would react if Lyn somehow got in.

On one hand, another FE swords(wo)man, yeah yeah. But on the other hand, Lyn is actually a genuine popular legacy fan favorite, she's a tad bit more comparable to Ridley, Isaac, K. Rool, Krystal, Geno, etc than she is with Byleth or Corrin.

There would be some groaners, for sure. But I think the reception would be very positive from Fire Emblem fans, especially from dedicated and longtime fans, and I think others would realize in the aftermath of the reveal how important and popular she is within the series, making the overall reception positive as well. Certain Fire Emblem detractors would also stomach it better if there were cuts elsewhere in the FE roster, particularly among the clones and perhaps Corrin.

--

Also, while I was a Blue Lions player myself, based on the marketing and overall importance to the main plot I think Edelgard would've been chosen had they gone with a House leader instead of Byleth...

But they were probably too afraid to show favoritism when there was a neutral alternative...

--

Lastly, when are we gonna hear about the next FE game? It's been a while, and I image that whatever they make next is gonna reuse the assets and engine from Three Houses.
Maybe it's slightly off-topic but I guess it could have to do with timing relative to the next Smash project plan...

 

[Jotari]

Lastly, when are we gonna hear about the next FE game? It's been a while, and I image that whatever they make next is gonna reuse the assets and engine from Three Houses.
Maybe it's slightly off-topic but I guess it could have to do with timing relative to the next Smash project plan...

There is a second Fire Emblem Warriors game coming out soon that is a quasi Three Houses sequel.