Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Thracia 776 is just underrated. I wonder what Smash would've been like if they went with Leif instead of Marth. It could have created an entirely different archetype of anime swordsman considering that Leif is one of the more different main Lords.

Wait, I thought Leif was replaced with Roy...

 

[Will]

Wait, I thought Leif was replaced with Roy...

I could've sworn it was Marth. Like FE5 may have been released in 2000 but I don't recall them wanting to advertise the SNES title originally.

 

[SPEN18]

It was definitely between Roy and Leif. IIRC the story was that Sakurai went to IS for Leif but saw early footage of Roy during the development of FE6, after which he added Roy. IIRC Marth was considered for Smash 64 and was always the first choice for an FE rep.

Edit: after checking for source it seems the part about Roy/Leif is inaccurate.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nah man, ToonTown fo LYFE BRO!

View attachment 340033


Considering the hard L Take Two games gave this game people fell in love with, I think it's okay for them to get some sort of W.

Yeah, it's no wonder people consider Take Two the worst.

remembers ActiBlizz

Well, ONE OF the worst...

 

[Will]

Nah man, ToonTown fo LYFE BRO!

I miss Toontown man. I used to play the revival of TTR when it was still relatively new and got pretty far into it. That's when I realized how grindy the game actually is lmao.

 

[ForsakenM]

Yeah, it's no wonder people consider Take Two the worst.

remembers ActiBlizz

Well, ONE OF the worst...

Like I said last night, with the VP of Sony getting fired for trying to hook up with underage boys on Grindr, if it comes out in the coming weeks that Phil Spencer Spence'd too much quality time the kiddos, I wouldn't even be surprised. We are just unearthing all the filth that has been happening, finally being less distracted by things that don't matter so we can solve things that do.

I'll take Nintendo being run in Japan and targeting creators and being very olden times with how they deal with fan projects over them being cool and then it turns out Mario's Maker likes climbing up on young sprouts...and I don't mean the trees.

 

[Will]

Like I said last night, with the VP of Sony getting fired for trying to hook up with underage boys on Grindr

I'll take Nintendo being run in Japan and targeting creators and being very olden times with how they deal with fan projects over them being cool and then it turns out Mario's Maker likes climbing up on young sprouts...and I don't mean the trees.

Oh yeah, it's not Nintendo doing that for sure. It's the mother****ers who play the Nintendo games.

But that is all I will touch on this topic, I just had an urge to respond since this is my first time hearing of it and I really couldn't resist. Hopefully these types of crimes won't reappear in the Smash scene again.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh uh

it’s not JUST the Sony VP doing the bad thing

some higher up at Nvidia, those graphics card people, got caught doing the same damn thing

it’s decided my next PC will use an AMD GPU just to spite them

 

[Perkilator]

Here's a Cash Banooca moveset I've had for a while.

Some of its design choices might surprise you

Spoiler

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Should we get the mandatory "Smash hint" joke out of the way?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh uh

it’s not JUST the Sony VP doing the bad thing

some higher up at Nvidia, those graphics card people, got caught doing the same damn thing

it’s decided my next PC will use an AMD GPU just to spite them

Why is it that every time I seem to turn around, someone famous or notable is outed ad a sexual predator?

****.





To steer the topic back towards games though, how likely so you think a Star Fox title is?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm glad Saks still watches TGAs, even when Smash isn't doing anything there.

 

[Yamat08]

Why is it that every time I seem to turn around, someone famous or notable is outed ad a sexual predator?

****.

When it's coming from the very same type of people that hysterically talk about there being a supposed "r*** culture", talking down to their own fanbase and dumbing down their media as a result (something which Sony has been VERY guilty of)...... well, to be honest, I take a great amount of schadenfreude in them getting outed like that.

 

[Simnm]

I actually think that nintendo should try to have more first party newcomers than third party ones since they should still try to maintain the whole celebration of nintendo thing

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I actually think that nintendo should try to have more first party newcomers than third party ones since they should still try to maintain the whole celebration of nintendo thing

You're genius, we need more 1st Party newcomers than 3rd Party ones, it could make Smash Bros more like Nintendo Allstars rather than Gaming Allstars.

 

[Perkilator]

Know what I just realized? Sakurai himself hasn't talked about Crash after DLC ended, since it seems okay to talk about it since DLC's over.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

So this might sound stupid, but if the next Smash were to add a Gen 8 Pokemon, which one do you think would get in - and which one would you like to see? I feel like Urshifu is likely as a pick perhaps with a stance-change style based on his Single Strike and Rapid Strike forms, but to be fair so is Cinderace. My own personal pick would be Toxtricity with a similar style but changing between his Low-Key and Amped forms, allowing him to have either AoE attacks with his poison as the focus of Low-Key, or a rushdown style with Amped form based on his Electric typing.

 

[osby]

So this might sound stupid, but if the next Smash were to add a Gen 8 Pokemon, which one do you think would get in - and which one would you like to see? I feel like Urshifu is likely as a pick perhaps with a stance-change style based on his Single Strike and Rapid Strike forms, but to be fair so is Cinderace. My own personal pick would be Toxtricity with a similar style but changing between his Low-Key and Amped forms, allowing him to have either AoE attacks with his poison as the focus of Low-Key, or a rushdown style with Amped form based on his Electric typing.

They should add Alcremie because it's the best Gen 8 Pokemon and I want to throw pies to people's faces in Smash.

 

[PeridotGX]

So this might sound stupid, but if the next Smash were to add a Gen 8 Pokemon, which one do you think would get in - and which one would you like to see? I feel like Urshifu is likely as a pick perhaps with a stance-change style based on his Single Strike and Rapid Strike forms, but to be fair so is Cinderace. My own personal pick would be Toxtricity with a similar style but changing between his Low-Key and Amped forms, allowing him to have either AoE attacks with his poison as the focus of Low-Key, or a rushdown style with Amped form based on his Electric typing.

I think Grimmsnarl would be cool. It can contort it's hair to do basically anything, which would give it a lot of unique move options. I think it could be similar to Venom from the Marvel VS Capcom series.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I think Grimmsnarl would be cool. It can contort it's hair to do basically anything, which would give it a lot of unique move options. I think it could be similar to Venom from the Marvel VS Capcom series.

Yeah, he could be better than Rillaboom actually.

Virgin Rillaboom vs chad Grimmsnarl

 

[Dinoman96]

I actually think that nintendo should try to have more first party newcomers than third party ones since they should still try to maintain the whole celebration of nintendo thing

FTR Ulti still has more first party newcomers than third party ones




13 vs 11

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

FTR Ulti still has more first party newcomers than third party ones




13 vs 11

That's good, because Smash could be slowly Nintendo Allstars again.

 

[Trevenant]

That's good, because Smash could be slowly Nintendo Allstars again.

It is Nintendo All stars lol. The people who say it isn't are either mad cos BWD etc aren't in the game, or, which is what I assume is going on with this comment, just don't really know what people mean when they say "nintendo allstasr" and just start referring to what it means it face value, meaning that there's not much of a point of referring to it in the first place, if the word isn't even being referenced correctly... Smash is Nintendo all stars lol. Inkling was added cos it was a "nintendo all star". The only character who I think an argument could be made for them being missing is Toad, and even then, the fact that Toad has pretty much always been relegated to NPC roles shows me that they likely have some reasoning on him not appearing in the game, since he's pretty much had since Melee to show up...

When people say nintendo all stars, they don't say it cos smash isn't that lol. They use it for the completely opposite reason in fact. There are so few "Nintendo Allstars" as you said, cos pretty much all of them are in the game already aside from a select few, to a degree where they can all be classed as "nintendo allstars" cos they're not in the game, but they're big enough so that it's warranted. Just thought to point this out since it's the second time you've mentioned this, which I assume is just because you've seen others throw around the word Nintendo all stars, but just to point out, Nintendo all stars doesn't refer to how smash "shoulda stayed a first party game".

By the time of smash 4, most of the first party all stars were added, which is why they went bigger. People should remember this before saying Keeby shoulda been added over Sephiroth or what have you.

 

[Guynamednelson]

which is why they went bigger.

...It still took them a while for them to truly "go bigger", however. The base game still had two third-party newcomers, just like Brawl, while 3/4 of the DLC newcomers were, well, third-parties. The same deal happened with Ultimate, except thanks to clones being advertised as a feature the number of third-party newcomers in base went up to...three.

And that's why it's pointless to be hyperfocused on third-parties right now.

 

[Dinoman96]

With a few exceptions (like Ring Fit Trainee), most of the requested Nintendo characters left are just like, tertiary characters from pre-existing series. Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Dixie (as much as I like her), Ashley, Toad/Captain Toad, etc

 

[Trevenant]

...It still took them a while for them to truly "go bigger", however. The base game still had two third-party newcomers, just like Brawl, while 3/4 of the DLC newcomers were, well, third-parties. The same deal happened with Ultimate, except thanks to clones being advertised as a feature the number of third-party newcomers in base went up to...three.

And that's why it's pointless to be hyperfocused on third-parties right now.

That wasn't really my main point. If you're talking about base game likely featuring first parties then yeah, sure, but I'm referring to the idea of Nintendo all stars. Smash still pretty much has all the essential characters from first party IP which was my main point. I've seen ideas of a reboot tossed around, which is fine, sure, but saying it should go back to Nintendo all stars like it was when it had barely found it's footing 20 years ago cos it isn't that now is not really correct. Wanting or preferring first parties is fine of course, but smash still has a largely first party roster and absolutely always has been first party focussed,. It always will be too, so the logic behind having it go back to the days of Melee is weird to me.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but smash still has a largely third party roster

Barely. Even with the fighters passes abusing the idea that third-parties are more hype, third-parties are only 18 out of 89 characters in the roster total. And one of them was wanted because of a time when Nintendo did own him, not because you could get upvotes from placing his model next to Mario's.

 

[Trevenant]

Barely. Even with the fighters passes abusing the idea that third-parties are more hype, third-parties are only 18 out of 89 characters in the roster total. And one of them was wanted because of a time when Nintendo did own him, not because you could get upvotes from placing his model next to Mario's.

I edited the post lol. I'm always confused by posts that quote like just a sentence of the initial quote. Not because they're ooc like now or anything but it's just something that happens in those few circumstances. I'd guess it's because they're quoting a specific sentence which is usually related to a different point entirely, regardless of the full message. Weird observation. With this in mind, I probably didn't clear anything up by saying I edited the post, but eh.

 

[Dan Quixote]

If there's a lot of cuts in SSB6 then I can see them going more ham on 3rd parties than ever before to distract people from asking for all the oldies to return. What voice is gonna be louder on the net, the one asking for Ike back or the one creaming for Jonesy Fortnite?

 

[Guynamednelson]

If there's a lot of cuts in SSB6 then I can see them going more ham on 3rd parties than ever before to distract people from asking for all the oldies to return. What voice is gonna be louder on the net, the one asking for Ike back or the one creaming for Jonesy Fortnite?

This post just sounds corporate as ****. How many shares of Nintendo stock do you own?

 

[Garteam]

Did FE2's remake hold any significant resemblance to Fire Emblem Gaiden? FE12 added a whole OC to FE3. Just let me live my fantasy before I start breaking down every bit of that post.

Echoes is an incredibly close remake to Gaiden. In fact, the biggest criticism against Echoes is that they transferred most of the gameplay from an antiquated NES RPG with few changes. Sure, they drastically expanded the story and added some new mechanics like combat arts, supports, and 3-D exploration for the dungeons, but the core gameplay loop, mechanics, and level design are translated one for one from Gaiden.

New Mystery of the Emblem definitely diverts from Mystery of the Emblem more than Echoes diverts from Gaiden, but it still has the same foundation. The level design is more or less identical and most of the mechanical changes are minor beyond getting rid of dismounting and adding reclassing.

If you wanted to remake Genealogy in the style of Thracia, you'd need to cut the massive maps, the individual gold pools, weapons being repairable, the distribution of weapons, enemy placement, and the stats of the enemies. If you wanted to remake Thracia in the style of Genealogy, you'd have to cut the capture mechanic, the steal mechanic, the dismount mechanic, and literally every map in the game.

I really want both of these games remade too, but I also want them remade well. What makes Genealogy and Thracia so fun to play 20+ years after their releases are what they do differently from other entries. Likewise, their narratives are designed around their gameplay, so you're harming both the gameplay and the story. I'd much rather see two good remakes over the next 5 years than a good remake and a bad one crammed into one package.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You're genius, we need more 1st Party newcomers than 3rd Party ones, it could make Smash Bros more like Nintendo Allstars rather than Gaming Allstars.

Gaming Allstars is better than Nintendo Allstars.

That's good, because Smash could be slowly Nintendo Allstars again.

That's bad.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Echoes is an incredibly close remake to Gaiden. In fact, the biggest criticism against Echoes is that they transferred most of the gameplay from an antiquated NES RPG with few changes. Sure, they drastically expanded the story and added some new mechanics like combat arts, supports, and three exploration for the dungeons, but the core gameplay loop, mechanics, and level design are translated one for one from Gaiden.

New Mystery of the Emblem definitely diverts from Mystery of the Emblem more than Echoes diverts from Gaiden, but it still has the same foundation. The level design is more or less identical and that's not that most of the mechanical changes are minor beyond getting rid of dismounting and adding reclassing.

If you wanted to remake Genealogy in the style of Thracia, you'd need to cut the massive maps, the individual gold pools, weapons being repairable, the distribution of weapons, enemy placement, and the stats of the enemies. If you wanted to remake Thracia in the style of Genealogy, you'd have to cut the capture mechanic, the steal mechanic, the dismount mechanic, and literally every map in the game.

I really want both of these games remade too, but I also want them remade well. What makes Genealogy and Thracia so fun to play 20+ years after their releases are what they do differently from other entries. Likewise, their narratives are designed around their gameplay, so you're harming both the gameplay and the story. I'd much rather see two good remakes over the next 5 years than a good remake and a bad one crammed into one package.

Question: would it be possible to rework Thracia's Capture mechanic to be more like Fates's Capture? I'm a sucker for games that let you capture enemies and have them fight alongside you, but if that would go too much against what Thracia is, it might not be worth it...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

This post just sounds corporate as ****. How many shares of Nintendo stock do you own?

Attacking a post like this because it goes against your ideology is totally a good look.

With a few expections (like Ring Fit Trainee), most of the requested Nintendo characters left are just like, tertiary characters from pre-existing series. Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Dixie (as much as I like her), Ashley, Toad/Captain Toad, etc

This. This so much. People act surprised that people are requesting third parties more when more of the “core” characters per series are in. Would I like Ashley to get in the next smash? Absolutely, but she feels far less important of a pick then day Ridley or K Rool were. I personally think that the combination of the doors being flung open for third parties combined with this has changed speculation into what it is now.

Obviously, this does not mean first parties are unlikely by any means. Including or not including echos, Ultimate did have more first than third parties as much as the purists might object. Likely, the split will be somewhat similar in Smash 6, with a slight tilt towards Nintendo as a result. Just don’t throw a fit when a third party gets in Smash when the series has been open to third parties since Melee.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Attacking a post like this because it goes against your ideology is totally a good look.

But, how much does it really benefit you if Smash's audience grows? Are you earning any of that money? Are you playing Smash with a lot more people or talking to a lot more people online about it? From our perspective, Smash's sales are just a number.

Also, I think people are forgetting that K. Rool was just like the "lame bottom of the barrel" picks. He didn't return alongside DKC itself, so he needed fan demand to be chosen over a relevant first-party or a third-party.

 

[Dan Quixote]

This post just sounds corporate as ****. How many shares of Nintendo stock do you own?

Yeah it sounds corporate because it is lol it's not like I was saying this is the morally correct path to go down

 

[Garteam]

Question: would it be possible to rework Thracia's Capture mechanic to be more like Fates's Capture? I'm a sucker for games that let you capture enemies and have them fight alongside you, but if that would go too much against what Thracia is, it might not be worth it...

I think it could maybe work. There are already recruitable characters you have to obtain via capture like Lifis and Salem, so the precedent is definitely there. That being said, stat caps in Thracia are so low that letting the player collect generics might break the game, but stat caps should probably be raised in a Thracia remake for a number of reasons anyways. Plus, there might be a story issue if Leaf, this complete underdog who barely has enough resources to fight and has to resort to guerilla warfare to get by, is somehow able to manage a mobile prison lol.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So this might sound stupid, but if the next Smash were to add a Gen 8 Pokemon, which one do you think would get in - and which one would you like to see? I feel like Urshifu is likely as a pick perhaps with a stance-change style based on his Single Strike and Rapid Strike forms, but to be fair so is Cinderace. My own personal pick would be Toxtricity with a similar style but changing between his Low-Key and Amped forms, allowing him to have either AoE attacks with his poison as the focus of Low-Key, or a rushdown style with Amped form based on his Electric typing.

Calyrex cuz I want my big brain doggo

tfw support for Calyrex was non existent during Ultimate’s DLC

 

[SPEN18]

It's not that Smash doesn't have most of the Nintendo "All Stars," it's that there's too much other junk in there which detracts from the Nintendo focus of the game and makes the roster look like a total mish-mash.

And of course, it all depends on how high a bar you set for being classified as an "All Star" anyway; if you expect every Nintendo newcomer to be on the level of Sonic or Cloud, or even on the level of Terry or Joker, in terms of widespread public appeal, then you're just setting an unrealistic expectation. Not every newcomer is really supposed to be at that level anyway; part of the point of celebrating Nintendo history is digging into the nooks and crannies of it. Of course you can't add in any random character unless they achieve a certain level of significance, but that's more because it would be unfair to the more significant characters. The bar to clear for inclusion is lowered or raised based on number of roster spots, resources, and such. "All Star" is a convenient but flawed term because it implies a really high bar that is never lowered even though there are more roster spots and resources now than there were ten, twenty years ago.

You might think this would lead to "bottom of the barrel" syndrome, but it really never does because Nintendo is constantly making new games and characters, and sometimes even revives old ones. More legacy characters could be added who missed the boat in their time of greatest relevance but still hold historical importance and/or popularity today (like several one-off Zelda characters, Lyn from FE, Isaac, etc.). Besides, "tertiary" characters and series can be just as exciting when they get added anyway; just look at K. Rool, who you could argue isn't even the third most iconic DK character, depending on how you feel about Dixie and others, or Xenoblade back in Smash 4. I don't see how this is going "backwards" at all; if anything it's refocusing and moving towards a roster that feels as complete as it can be within the resource and practicality constraints that are given. If you open the floodgates to anything and everything, then the roster is just a total mess with no focus or fairness.

 

[Will]

Echoes is an incredibly close remake to Gaiden. In fact, the biggest criticism against Echoes is that they transferred most of the gameplay from an antiquated NES RPG with few changes. Sure, they drastically expanded the story and added some new mechanics like combat arts, supports, and 3-D exploration for the dungeons, but the core gameplay loop, mechanics, and level design are translated one for one from Gaiden.

New Mystery of the Emblem definitely diverts from Mystery of the Emblem more than Echoes diverts from Gaiden, but it still has the same foundation. The level design is more or less identical and most of the mechanical changes are minor beyond getting rid of dismounting and adding reclassing.

If you wanted to remake Genealogy in the style of Thracia, you'd need to cut the massive maps, the individual gold pools, weapons being repairable, the distribution of weapons, enemy placement, and the stats of the enemies. If you wanted to remake Thracia in the style of Genealogy, you'd have to cut the capture mechanic, the steal mechanic, the dismount mechanic, and literally every map in the game.

I really want both of these games remade too, but I also want them remade well. What makes Genealogy and Thracia so fun to play 20+ years after their releases are what they do differently from other entries. Likewise, their narratives are designed around their gameplay, so you're harming both the gameplay and the story. I'd much rather see two good remakes over the next 5 years than a good remake and a bad one crammed into one package.

A man on the internet really can't have his impatient dreams come to fruition, can't he? I guess I literally got what I asked for.