Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Arcanir]

Even if Echoes is a pretty faithful remake of the original (all things considered), i don't see how the thracia stuff are so important that they have to keep to the original content, especially given my above examples and how certain elements from 5 require massive overhauls or just removals (FoW, weapon balance).

They're important because they were built with the game's core gameplay in mind. FoW, Weapon Balance, Fatigue, what have you are all elements that were intentionally added into the game and defined how you approached different maps and objectives. Whether they're outdated or not, we've seen with the previous remakes they're not above keeping those dated elements if it's integral to the game, and expecting them to go so far as to overhaul the gameplay to match FE4 (or vice versa) is very unfitting with how they've approached these games.

Keep in mind that echoes had noticeable changes in its story compared to the original (which would also address the point about how story is baked into the gameplay. They can always adapt stuff to better fit a game)

Funny you mention the story, because despite those new additions they followed the same progression of the original game at its core. Berkut is a good example of that as he's supposed to be a major general in the army, but due to the structure of the original game they only allow him three proper battles, two of which use the same set-up of the original and only one was new, and that limited how much he could be shown off as a general. Similarly, they had the addition of the Celica/Jedah bargain added in, which could've worked but due to not changing the first battle you have with the villain he ends up attacking the group and making him look untrustworthy, which makes Celica going along with him less believable. Echoes had great ideas, but often restricted itself to the original progression of the game, and that was a detriment to some of those elements.

Also, the intent for New mystery was for it to be released simultaneously with SD as a bundled story, so the context is pretty different. It's not like they decided to release remakes as different entries initially. And given how MoTE bombed - would it really be that much of a surprise if they just decided to move on to a brand new title anyway?

And if you read the reason, they split the game because, and I quote: "they could not make New Mystery of the Emblem using the systems of Shadow Dragon". If the development team felt that Shadow Dragon and Mystery were different enough to split into two different games, then why would they combine Genealogy and Thracia which have more stark differences in their gameplay?

And FE is in a very different spot from when NMoTE released. A hypothetical set of Jugdral remakes would follow four very successful games in Awakening, Fates, Echoes, and TH. Sales-wise the series is in a very comfortable place and can definitely do two remakes back-to-back if they so choose.

 

[ceterisparibus]

I do admit your points about game systems being different enough for MoTE/SD to be separate is overall better, but at the end of the day i think we're just arguing whether said mechanics are important enough to invoke 2 different entries and personally, it's just a safer assumption they'll not release 2 back-to-back remakes (it's pretty much a guess on your end as well) because you probably want to keep your brand fresh enough and said bad history happening.
I'm just going to leave it as that.

Having a trend of successful games doesn't mean you can or should risk it by doing another remake based off a game that wasn't viewed well.

 

[Garteam]

I do admit your points about game systems being different enough for MoTE/SD to be separate is overall better, but at the end of the day i think we're just arguing whether said mechanics are important enough to invoke 2 different entries and personally, it's just a safer assumption they'll not release 2 back-to-back remakes (it's pretty much a guess on your end as well) because you probably want to keep your brand fresh enough and said bad history happening.
I'm just going to leave it as that.

Having a trend of successful games doesn't mean you can or should risk it by doing another remake based off a game that wasn't viewed well.

Who says they have to do Genealogy's remake and Thracia's remakes back to back? Sure, the two games form a continuous story, but there's no hard rule that two games in a series that form a complete narrative need to be released back to back. Even if IS is concerned about brand fatigue, they could just release a new entry between Genealogy's remake and Thracia's remake.

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of remakes, do you guys still think the Chrono Cross remake is happening or was the mobile crossover game it? I ask because Magus is one of my most wanted characters for Smash and I’d love to see any kind of revival of the series. If Chrono does get something else, I feel like it would help their chances for the next Smash. Even if it’s just the mobile crossover, at least that’s more attention than the series has had in quite a while.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/rf64o3
Damn, I can't believe this forum got called out so hard.

 

[Gengar84]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/rf64o3
Damn, I can't believe this forum got called out so hard.

What can I say, it’s a fun place to talk about my favorite video game characters where it wouldn’t really make sense to bring up otherwise.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Now here's a question, I want to ask.

Since Sakurai confirmed this, who do you think is going to get cut from Ultimate to 6?

My pick is Square Enix Boys except probably Hero

 

[Dinoman96]

I kinda feel like Crono is on the same boat as Banjo and Sora in that he'd need a huge amount of fan demand to justifying having to go through a whole bunch of potential legal issues. From my understanding Chrono Trigger has a whole lot of legal redtape surrounding it with different parties like Shueisha and Bird Studio, and while Smash has performed miracles before, it was done for characters with a sufficient amount of fan demand and unfortunately, Crono has never really drawn that big of a crowd. As far as forgotten SNES SquareSoft characters are concerned, it seems more would rather rally for Geno, as sad as that may sound.

Now here's a question, I want to ask.

Since Sakurai confirmed this, who do you think is going to get cut from Ultimate to 6?

My pick is Square Enix Boys except probably Hero

Can you please stop

 

[Gengar84]

I kinda feel like Crono is on the same boat as Banjo and Sora in that he'd need a huge amount of fan demand to justifying having to go through a whole bunch of potential legal issues. From my understanding Chrono Trigger has a whole lot of legal redtape surrounding it with different parties like Shueisha and Bird Studio, and while Smash has performed miracles before, it was done for characters with a sufficient amount of fan demand and unfortunately, Crono has never really drawn that big of a crowd. As far as forgotten SNES SquareSoft characters are concerned, it seems more would rather rally for Geno, as sad as that may sound.



Can you please stop

As things stand now, you’re probably right about Crono. However, if the remake ends up being real and they genuinely try to push the series again, I feel like Crono has a very realistic chance to make it. That’s one reason I’m still holding out hope that Crono, Magus, or anyone else from the series could still happen.

 

[DarthEnderX]

who do you think is going to get cut from Ultimate to 6?

Everyone is here. Forever.

 

[Will]

Now here's a question, I want to ask.

Since Sakurai confirmed this, who do you think is going to get cut from Ultimate to 6?

My pick is Square Enix Boys except probably Hero

"Confirmed" despite that quote being so early into Smash Ultimate's release it doesn't reflect the game now with it's 25 million units sold and now arguably the best-selling fighting game of all time. By this point, everyone's staying.

You'd be stupid to not put your character in Smash by this point. You don't want to be the laughing stock of a company that was too stingy to pass up such an opportunity and free advertisement in the best-selling fighting game franchise of all time.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

You do know that Nintendo has to pay for them and they aren't necessarily cheap either. Sakurai said that Everyone is Here isn't feasible. Sales numbers doesn't negate that.

Also

Even Sakurai says they ain't bringing everyone back and a port ain't happening either.

Let Ultimate be it's own era, the next Smash Bros. will most likely reboot the series with a ton of new shit we never seen before. https://t.co/ohnL03uBBa

— JOLLY J✨ (@DynamoSuperX) December 8, 2021

 

[HyperSomari64]

What if reboot smash cuts everyone and instead have fully original characters

 

[Will]

You do know that Nintendo has to pay for them and they aren't necessarily cheap either. Sakurai said that Everyone is Here isn't feasible. Sales numbers doesn't negate that.

Oh, a take that says we'll just get a reboot instead of a standard continuation?

It looks like you're on either Side A or Side B with the matter of Smash's future. And you already have shown your hardheadedness to not possibly be convinced of any other possibility despite yourself creating the open argument with the said possibility being, yknow, possible. Just wait like six years and we'll get the answer. Dancing around specific characters and franchise cuts just because the twitter mob said so is just begging for flame wars. And you seem very aware of that, so it's wiser for everyone to not speak on it.

What if reboot smash cuts everyone and instead have fully original characters

What if we just replaced the gameplay with a kart racer?

 

[Guynamednelson]

And you already have shown your hardheadedness to not possibly be convinced of any other possibility despite yourself creating the open argument with the said possibility being, yknow, possible

And you know what made Everyone Is Here possible in the first place? The Switch not being strong enough to warrant remodeling everyone, and having far less companies to deal with for the base game. Now? We don't just have several more companies to negotiate for relicensing content, we have mother****ing Disney. It'd take a miracle and a half to get Everyone Is Here again, plus the same amount of newcomers base Ultimate added, plus a basic selection of side content without having to wait for updates to add it back in.

 

[Will]

And you know what made Everyone Is Here possible in the first place? The Switch not being strong enough to warrant remodeling everyone, and having far less companies to deal with for the base game. Now? We don't just have several more companies to negotiate for relicensing content, we have mother****ing Disney. It'd take a miracle and a half to get Everyone Is Here again, plus the same amount of newcomers base Ultimate added, plus a basic selection of side content without having to wait for updates to add it back in.

You're saying this like the next game is coming out tomorrow, Nelson.

Just wait like six years and we'll get the answer. Dancing around specific characters and franchise cuts just because the twitter mob said so is just begging for flame wars. It's wiser for everyone to not speak on it.

Side A, Side B. I can understand if it couldn't, but I also believe it will. We'll find out when we get there.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You're saying this like the next game is coming out tomorrow, Nelson.

I wasn't saying that at all. I just know that the same man who was able to get Disney to say yes to their character being DLC, couldn't add the usual amount of unique newcomers to base Ultimate plus the stage builder and home-run contest.

 

[Will]

I wasn't saying that at all. I just know that the same man who was able to get Disney to say yes to their character being DLC, couldn't add the usual amount of unique newcomers to base Ultimate plus the stage builder and home-run contest.

Ultimate was a two-year project, wasn't it? With World of Light and all that.

 

[Arcanir]

Ultimate was a two-year project, wasn't it? With World of Light and all that.

Three, the project plan was drafted in December of 2015 and Ultimate released in December 2018.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Oh, a take that says we'll just get a reboot instead of a standard continuation?

View attachment 340202

It looks like you're on either Side A or Side B with the matter of Smash's future. And you already have shown your hardheadedness to not possibly be convinced of any other possibility despite yourself creating the open argument with the said possibility being, yknow, possible. Just wait like six years and we'll get the answer. Dancing around specific characters and franchise cuts just because the twitter mob said so is just begging for flame wars. And you seem very aware of that, so it's wiser for everyone to not speak on it.

Real talk: why can't the next Smash just start anew? Without having much of the baggage from Ultimate?

Is it because people view Ultimate as perfection? Because truthfully, I found most of Ultimate's novelties too costly to make up for most of the detriments. Smash has sort of been split in the middle with its direction, both roster-wise and gameplay-wise, and I personally wasn't happy with the decision to keep most of 4's elements.

But more to the point, we're basically speculating over possibilities. As far as I can tell the old rules may not completely apply. We could be seeing a completely different era of Smash. We may not even see Smash at all. Theoretically, that should be a good time for speculation to run wild. There's no need for a barricade on a game we don't even know exists yet. That just limits everything, ironically more than a roster would.

 

[Will]

Real talk: why can't the next Smash just start anew? Without having much of the baggage from Ultimate?

What baggage is there? You either keep what you currently have or you don't. It won't be a poor-selling game just because it has less. What even entails in a Smash reboot? A reboot implies we need a timeline fix because Smash 4 retconned the series after Tabuu killed Master Hand in Brawl, or that the current platform fighter formula needs to be absolutely replaced with something else entirely. This isn't like Mortal Kombat where you ****ed up the story so many times you have to do a full reboot trilogy to fix your mess from 9 - 11, or like Street Fighter where you need to sprinkle prequels and sequels in a timeline to justify making more games. Smash doesn't have such a thing, and any Story Mode has no true impact on the series itself because its a celebration of gaming, not the longest-running story of fanfiction.net, which is a SSE fanfiction probably.

Gameplay changes? Moveset changes? Roster changes? That happens every game.

There have never been any complaints against starting 'anew'; doing new ideas is the company's motto. Each Smash game is always doing something different; not through core gameplay, but experimenting through other modes. But the process of redoing Smash entirely poses the question of what that even means. And no one's really clarified outside of the roster or movesets just being less than this current game's.

But more to the point, we're basically speculating over possibilities. As far as I can tell the old rules may not completely apply. We could be seeing a completely different era of Smash. We may not even see Smash at all. Theoretically, that should be a good time for speculation to run wild. There's no need for a barricade on a game we don't even know exists yet. That just limits everything, ironically more than a roster would.

The topic was the roster, the tweet just implies a reboot only involves doing a complete roster change. But what does that even mean? You'd just be adding and subtracting like normal. I just believe we'll have the ability to have all of the Smash characters from Ultimate in the next game.

 

[Yamat08]

You know, I just got to thinking: people are saying that Smash Ultimate has an extremely large fighting game roster as is, but why should that be any sign that the game's approaching its limits? I mean, 20 years ago, even something the size of Melee's roster might've seemed impressively huge. Gaming still seems to be in the process of continually one-upping itself, and something tells me that there'll come a point when even a 100-character roster in a base game will look like child's play. Really, the only other hurdle seems to be licensing, though as I keep saying, I'd gladly pay for third-parties as DLC if that was the simplest solution for off-setting the costs.

Also, before anyone brings up Pokemon as an example of gaming not being able to go beyond current limits, Sword/Shield was a result of The Pokemon Company rushing and cheaping out, plain and simple (they truly are the EA of Nintendo at this point). This should be clearly evident from the fact that those games, with DLC, have barely half the content of Sun/Moon (a pair of 3DS titles released three years prior), while graphically not being much better than those games when running in a filtered emulator.

Ultimate was a two-year project, wasn't it? With World of Light and all that.

Three, the project plan was drafted in December of 2015 and Ultimate released in December 2018.

At any rate, I think it stands to reason that, even if it carried a lot of assetts over from Smash4, Ultimate still had a pretty short development cycle. And really, why wouldn't it? With the WiiU's failure, there was doubtlessly pressure from Nintendo to get a new Smash onto the Switch. But now, with the Switch still not having an end in sight, and Ultimate being a resounding success that's going to keep audiences occupied for a good while, there's plenty of time to let the next Smash cook properly. Who's to say it won't end up being an Ultimate Smash Ultimate (or as I like to call it, a combination of both the western and eastern titles, Smash Ultimate Special)?

Real talk: why can't the next Smash just start anew? Without having much of the baggage from Ultimate?

Is it because people view Ultimate as perfection? Because truthfully, I found most of Ultimate's novelties too costly to make up for most of the detriments. Smash has sort of been split in the middle with its direction, both roster-wise and gameplay-wise, and I personally wasn't happy with the decision to keep most of 4's elements.

But more to the point, we're basically speculating over possibilities. As far as I can tell the old rules may not completely apply. We could be seeing a completely different era of Smash. We may not even see Smash at all. Theoretically, that should be a good time for speculation to run wild. There's no need for a barricade on a game we don't even know exists yet. That just limits everything, ironically more than a roster would.

Perfection? That may be it, though I wouldn't say it's because Ultimate, specifically, is perfection, but rather that Smash's gameplay was already perfection to begin with. At its base core, we're still playing that same game that was released on the N64 all those years back, with most of the changes being comparatively minor tweeks (while more of the bigger ones already came with Melee, and to a lesser extent, the addition of Final Smash in Brawl). If Smash really was to go for a "reboot", as many are suggesting, one would have to wonder: how would you even overhaul it in a way that completely separates it from the entire franchise as it exists now? And especially in a way that would warrant curbing the roster to any significant degree? Health bars? That's what stamina battles are for. Team-switching? Is it really something that couldn't be done on the current engine (besides which, Smash stood out to begin with for being one of the only fighting games to allow simultaneous team matches)?

I believe I repeat myself, but if there was any point in the series where a hard reboot should've happened, Smash4 would've been it. I mean, they were actually reducing Smash for the sake of a far weaker system than the Wii or even the GameCube (and the WiiU version was just forced to comply with it). And even then, they STILL managed to keep most of the roster intact (and even brought back some of the characters who were cut in Brawl on top of that). The only real changes they managed to bring about were Zelda/Shiek and Samus losing their transformation gimmicks (a gimmick that would only come back with the return of Pokemon Trainer, and later Pyra/Mythra), Olimar's Pikmin being reduced from six to three, and maybe a couple other things like a short-lived attempt at custom movesets (which still kinda lives on through the Mii Fighters). Other than that, you've got several new characters bringing about their own exclusive gimmick, but not much in terms of universal changes.

I personally wasn't happy with the decision to keep most of 4's elements.

I think I have some idea of what you mean, though I wouldn't mind hearing some specific examples.

 

[Will]

Me on the character select screen for Smash 7 waiting 12 years to see if I picked the Goku skin on Ryu because the underpowered outdated ninth gen Nintendo console can't render all 8 costumes for all 116 characters at once

probably the only bad part about growing the roster imo​

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know, I just got to thinking: people are saying that Smash Ultimate has an extremely large fighting game roster as is, but why should that be any sign that the game's approaching its limits? I mean, 20 years ago, even something the size of Melee's roster might've seemed impressively huge. Gaming still seems to be in the process of continually one-upping itself, and something tells me that there'll come a point when even a 100-character roster in a base game will look like child's play. Really, the only other hurdle seems to be licensing, though as I keep saying, I'd gladly pay for third-parties as DLC if that was the simplest solution for off-setting the costs.

A lot of time during fighting game development has to be spent on balance. When you have to make sure 100+ characters have a decent matchup with each other, that's just, well, too much time to spend. And no, Sakurai will not just copy how fighters in Ultimate are balanced 1:1. Every Smash comes with various buffs, nerfs, and overall changes to veteran fighters, which as I said will be even harder with over 80 fighters to worry about.

 

[Will]

A lot of time during fighting game development has to be spent on balance. When you have to make sure 100+ characters have a decent matchup with each other, that's just, well, too much time to spend. And no, Sakurai will not just copy how fighters in Ultimate are balanced 1:1. Every Smash comes with various buffs, nerfs, and overall changes to veteran fighters, which as I said will be even harder with over 80 fighters to worry about.

Can't wait for Ganondorf to be balanced and competitively viable in the next Smash just like they made him the past four games, am I right?

I don't recall any interviews regarding Sakurai stressing over the balancing aspect of the game, especially this one. Of course, the developers have definitely cracked down on potential game-breakers ever since . Or , but she gets a pass for being DLC and also the last character. Remember Diddy's infinite? Not anymore. And they cracked that **** twice. Remember Isabelle's infinite Assists? Not anymore. I'm not disagreeing that balancing a large roster is difficult nor suggesting it's unimportant, but I don't remember it being an explicit challenge moreso than outright creating certain characters and mechanics, nor see it as a detractor from making such a large roster.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't recall any interviews regarding Sakurai stressing over the balancing aspect of the game, especially this one.

No, but look at Ultimate's base newcomer selection. 3 of its characters had to play exactly the same as the fighter they're clones of, while 2 other clones only have gameplay differences because of Lucina/his appearance in Super SFII Turbo. This was them taking a shortcut when it comes to balancing the roster.

Sure, going by this logic, an Ultimate Deluxe could have a bunch more echo fighters, but people are gonna want to see unique newcomers eventually.

 

[Will]

No, but look at Ultimate's base newcomer selection. 3 of its characters had to play exactly the same as the fighter they're clones of, while 2 other clones only have gameplay differences because of Lucina/his appearance in Super SFII Turbo. This was them taking a shortcut when it comes to balancing the roster.

Isn't this ignoring the philosophy of clones/Echoes being bonuses? Little sprinkles of added content just because they had the time to fit them in? Giving them the trademark of Echo felt more like branding to both get people excited for characters who do get this treatment and to also subside those who were sour on the concept of clone character; which worked flawlessly. Hell, remember when people were fully expecting Shadow and Dixie to come in this way?

I mean... we could just not have them in the game if you want. I'll just let you be the one fighting the fans of these characters now that you robbed them.

I agree Ken is a weird addition to Echoes since, at least imo, he should be more akin to Isabelle in semi-clone status. Sakurai's presentation on Ken implies having him as an Echo because he was the original clone fighting game character is just branding. However, I don't see the case for the rest of them. Chrom having Aether is a reference to him having Aether, and him replacing Roy rather than the original joke of him being a clone of Ike makes sense. Lucina's Falchion should be the same size as Chrom's, so he should be based on Roy's model.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean... we could just not have them in the game if you want. I'll just let you be the one fighting the fans of these characters now that you robbed them.

"Clone bad" is not the point. Previous clones all had gameplay differences, the echo newcomers didn't besides the ones that kinda already had gameplay differences established in a fighting game environment, which was them cutting corners to make the massive roster easier to balance.

 

[Will]

"Clone bad" is not the point. Previous clones all had gameplay differences, the echo newcomers didn't besides the ones that kinda already had gameplay differences established in a fighting game environment, which was them cutting corners to make the massive roster easier to balance.

Where's your bro I need to trust for this source?

I honestly can't tell you what I would change for Daisy at all. Richter, maybe make Holy Water move like in Rondo and Symphony? Dark Samus is just stuck, fixing her just means we're taking her out of Echo status and either trashing her or making her a new moveset. But I'm not complaining about any of these staying the same and I really don't see the issue at hand. If Anything, Alph not being an Echo feels like robbery, that would've been cool.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Daisy could remove the Toads from her throws and give them a little bit of different frame data. You can use the carrots from Super Mario Land for her Down B instead. You could also change the order of her Side Smash to slightly change up her gameplay a tad. Maybe use something else for her B that still is the shield-like counter move. Tatanga is one thought. You also have the custom moves from 4 that could easily be applied. Giving her a different variation of Toad, like Sleepy Toad, works. She's pretty easy to make different, even if it's relatively minor.

Richter was already easy. Dark Samus could have attributes from some of Samus' custom moves.

 

[Will]

Daisy could remove the Toads from her throws and give them a little bit of different frame data. You can use the carrots from Super Mario Land for her Down B instead. You could also change the order of her Side Smash to slightly change up her gameplay a tad. Maybe use something else for her B that still is the shield-like counter move. Tatanga is one thought. You also have the custom moves from 4 that could easily be applied. Giving her a different variation of Toad, like Sleepy Toad, works. She's pretty easy to make different, even if it's relatively minor.

You could, but those are visual changes. I'm assuming Nelson means **** like weight and actual power changes like Dr. Mario or Dark Pit being stronger (and the Doc being heavier and having the STOMP). Definitely welcome, but not truly required. That's just QoL stuff, like how they gave Ike two different pitches of angsty raspy voice that isn't Brawl's buttery smooth superior voice. It does make balancing easier to leave everything the same, but I don't recall Daisy fans nitpicking on that end.

Could it be done? Yes. Is it required? No. Is it necessary? Also not really, I'm not complainin' but maybe I'm just not in the right spot.

Richter was already easy. Dark Samus could have attributes from some of Samus' custom moves.

Which customs though? Charge Shot and Screw Attack maybe, but I don't know on Missiles and Bombs, considering your options were either hot garbage or absolutely busted on those fronts.

 

[subterrestrial]

both dark samus and daisy should be completely unique characters, they are too distinct to be clones or even semi-clones. its nonsensical

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You could, but those are visual changes. I'm assuming Nelson means **** like weight and actual power changes like Dr. Mario or Dark Pit being stronger (and the Doc being heavier and having the STOMP). Definitely welcome, but not truly required. That's just QoL stuff, like how they gave Ike two different pitches of angsty raspy voice that isn't Brawl's buttery smooth superior voice. It does make balancing easier to leave everything the same, but I don't recall Daisy fans nitpicking on that end.

Could it be done? Yes. Is it required? No. Is it necessary? Also not really, I'm not complainin' but maybe I'm just not in the right spot.

That's why I noted the customs of Peach's for Daisy's too. Sleepy Toad is definitely different enough otherwise from Peach's regular one.

...Only big aesthetic/etc. difference Daisy needs is her classic taunt; "Hi, I'm Daisy!" >.>

Though fair enough on Dark Samus. She has a completely different ability(one element instead of more), so she at least has a more legitimate gameplay change than Daisy does(and Richter barely has a gameplay difference), but any decently usable Customs are good enough.

 

[Will]

both dark samus and daisy should be completely unique characters, they are too distinct to be clones or even semi-clones. its nonsensical

You could say that about any current Echo fighter but it is what it is right now.

That's why I noted the customs of Peach's for Daisy's too. Sleepy Toad is definitely different enough otherwise from Peach's regular one.

...Only big aesthetic/etc. difference Daisy needs is her classic taunt; "Hi, I'm Daisy!" >.>

Though fair enough on Dark Samus. She has a completely different(one element instead of more), so she at least has a more legitimate gameplay change than Daisy does(and Richter barely has a gameplay difference), but any decently usable Customs are good enough.

Maybe Sakurai just drew a blank because he couldn't think to apply anything from her only mainline Mario appearance in SML? Or maybe he didn't want to reference any spinoff titles like how Waluigi is just "the tennis guy" right now. Using customs is a nice front for reusing those old assets though, that's a genuinely good idea.

Simon also shares moves that Richter started, so it's clear they were meant to be similar from the get-go as a hybrid peak Belmont amalgamation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You could say that about any current Echo fighter but it is what it is right now.


Maybe Sakurai just drew a blank because he couldn't think to apply anything from her only mainline Mario appearance in SML? Or maybe he didn't want to reference any spinoff titles like how Waluigi is just "the tennis guy" right now. Using customs is a nice front for reusing those old assets though, that's a genuinely good idea.

Simon also shares moves that Richter started, so it's clear they were meant to be similar from the get-go as a hybrid peak Belmont amalgamation.

Oh, definitely. I've seen a lot mention Hydro Storm, but the final smash is also Richter's. Maybe Simon could work with a new one instead? They're the only one who are basically Echoes of each other from the start, in practice. Everybody else had a main starting base(like Mario was the base for Luigi and Ness. And only Mario and Luigi are still fairly similar, but quite different anyway in Smash 64).

Also, Super Mario Run and Super Mario Maker are treated as mainline games, but they don't exactly give much besides I think one decent jump-related ability for Daisy, and you'd have to completely change her aerials if you changed how the floating works, making it an non-viable option. I completely get why that was avoided. Tatanga is a fun idea, but yeah, it doesn't really fit to protect Daisy. Peach having a regular Toad also works, though Toadsworth would be neat too, but the Red/Blue Toad differences are enough in terms of aesthetics that there's no point.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What baggage is there? You either keep what you currently have or you don't. It won't be a poor-selling game just because it has less. What even entails in a Smash reboot? A reboot implies we need a timeline fix because Smash 4 retconned the series after Tabuu killed Master Hand in Brawl, or that the current platform fighter formula needs to be absolutely replaced with something else entirely. This isn't like Mortal Kombat where you ****ed up the story so many times you have to do a full reboot trilogy to fix your mess from 9 - 11, or like Street Fighter where you need to sprinkle prequels and sequels in a timeline to justify making more games. Smash doesn't have such a thing, and any Story Mode has no true impact on the series itself because its a celebration of gaming, not the longest-running story of fanfiction.net, which is a SSE fanfiction probably.

Gameplay changes? Moveset changes? Roster changes? That happens every game.

There have never been any complaints against starting 'anew'; doing new ideas is the company's motto. Each Smash game is always doing something different; not through core gameplay, but experimenting through other modes. But the process of redoing Smash entirely poses the question of what that even means. And no one's really clarified outside of the roster or movesets just being less than this current game's.


The topic was the roster, the tweet just implies a reboot only involves doing a complete roster change. But what does that even mean? You'd just be adding and subtracting like normal. I just believe we'll have the ability to have all of the Smash characters from Ultimate in the next game.

not the longest-running story of fanfiction.net, which is a SSE fanfiction probably.

it USED to be that, but it’s now an Azur Lane fic

don’t ask me how I know

also I really want Richter to have a different FS at the bare minimum. Most want Hydro Storm but I do like the whole cutscene FS thing going on and idk how Hydro Storm would be cutscene’d

 

[HyperSomari64]

[*Laughs in The Loud House: Revamped*]

 

[chocolatejr9]

it USED to be that, but it’s now an Azur Lane fic

don’t ask me how I know

Rie, is there something you wanna tell us? Do you, per chance, want a boat waifu in Smash?

 

[Arcanir]

Can't wait for Ganondorf to be balanced and competitively viable in the next Smash just like they made him the past four games, am I right?

I don't recall any interviews regarding Sakurai stressing over the balancing aspect of the game, especially this one. Of course, the developers have definitely cracked down on potential game-breakers ever since . Or , but she gets a pass for being DLC and also the last character. Remember Diddy's infinite? Not anymore. And they cracked that **** twice. Remember Isabelle's infinite Assists? Not anymore. I'm not disagreeing that balancing a large roster is difficult nor suggesting it's unimportant, but I don't remember it being an explicit challenge moreso than outright creating certain characters and mechanics, nor see it as a detractor from making such a large roster.

He actually has talked about the balancing of the game. In this interview he mentioned that a major part if the reason why characters take over a year to develop is balancing them against the rest of the roster.

“The process, however, of actually creating a character often takes well over a year, where we are constantly working on the model, the animations, the audio and the balancing. For the game balance we have a testing team playing almost every day and we make adjustments based on their results. I was working from morning to night with my responsibilities as director, so I was only able to spend Wednesday evenings and weekends on the balance.”

It's part of the reason why Echoes even exist. If they play almost the same as their counterpart, then all the balancing they have to do is against the original rather then the whole cast.

 

[SneakyLink]

On the topic of Simon and Richter having different Final Smashes, I'll be honest I haven't really played Castlevania so I can't speak with 100% certainty, but maybe Hydro Storm? It sounds like a powerful attack, though maybe it is too similar to Corrin's Final Smash.

On a different topic, I found myself wanting Cortez more after playing Timesplitters 2 and Future Perfect on the Xbox One. Mostly for this song to be in:

Spoiler

[*Laughs in The Loud House: Revamped*]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it currently at 12 million words and counting? If so, wouldn't that make it one of the longest pieces of literature ever written?