Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Megadoomer]

Not too dissimilar to from Sakurai and Team forced to make cuts for Smash 6 to due the overload and stress of bring them back and how tough it would make game development.



Hulk hasnt made any appearances since Endgame so he's basically cut.

Also not really especially when they can focus on First party that need to help like Zelda and Kirby Franchises that desperately need more rep and add any first party that couldn't make it to Ultimate cough cough Waluigi cough.

Don't why you guys seem to forget that Nintendo has a huge catalogue of franchises to pull from. Mario and Pokemon on their own are media's BIGGEST franchises.

If Nintendo(by not being as involved like they did with Ultimate's DLC) and Sakurai play their cards right. It would be a step back. It would actually be a massive upgrade being a return to form.

I'm guessing you didn't see Shang-Chi, and there's a She-Hulk show coming to Disney Plus that features Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk.

The way I see it, expanding on franchises like Kirby or Zelda and bringing back some of the third party characters are nowhere near mutually exclusive. You can't go "third parties bad" just because Waluigi didn't get in - the two concepts (third party characters being in Smash and Waluigi being stuck as an assist trophy) have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Like it or not, third party franchises help to expand the appeal of Smash Bros. Characters like Sonic, Cloud, Banjo-Kazooie, and Steve getting into Smash have proven to be an extremely big deal, with at least two of those breaking websites. (Sonic broke GameFAQs, at least, and Steve broke Twitter; there were probably others)

There are plenty of great first party additions, but to go back to only first party characters would be like if Capcom announced the next entry in the Versus Series at the Game Awards, only to reveal that it's X-Men vs. Street Fighter 2 - there's absolutely no reason why they'd take a step backwards like that and leave out countless fan favourite characters (Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Morrigan, Dante, Mega Man, Strider, etc.) just because that's how the series started.

I don't see the mindset of "we need to cut all third party characters" often (the only other time that I saw it that I can recall was in a Source Gaming article written by someone who turned out to be a bigot, so I'm not linking to that here), but it baffles me when it comes up; I don't get why someone would want over a dozen series with millions of die-hard fans to be removed for no apparent reason beyond "a return to form". (acting as though the past twenty years of Smash, and the inclusion of non-Nintendo characters, was somehow a bad thing)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Famitsu revealed last week's hardware sales in Japan and Switch had a truly unbelievable 99% marketshare.

Switch software also held all Top 10 spots... pic.twitter.com/f5BhZKnKoc

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) December 9, 2021

I'm honestly shocked there are still devs that haven't jumped on the Switch yet. I'm not talking about the big names like Capcom or Bandai Namco, but companies like Idea Factory, who still primarily focus on Playstation despite the PS5's abysmal sales...

Maybe they think the Switch is too weak for them? There's even some phones now with stronger hardware than the Switch, and pretty much every single Nintendo system post-NES has given third-party developers reasons to stick with their competition. SNES had Nintendo still being strict in a Mortal Kombat world, N64 and Gamecube media had much less storage space than CDs/DVDs, Wii had the weakest hardware, the Wii U was the Wii U, and the Switch's hardware is only slightly a step up from the Wii U's.

 

[PeridotGX]

Famitsu revealed last week's hardware sales in Japan and Switch had a truly unbelievable 99% marketshare.

Switch software also held all Top 10 spots... pic.twitter.com/f5BhZKnKoc

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) December 9, 2021

I'm honestly shocked there are still devs that haven't jumped on the Switch yet. I'm not talking about the big names like Capcom or Bandai Namco, but companies like Idea Factory, who still primarily focus on Playstation despite the PS5's abysmal sales...

The PS5 really isn't selling that badly. Every Playstation they make is selling, the problem is the speed they're making them is so slow.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Wait before on answer anything, how do you link Twitter posts like that?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wait before on answer anything, how do you link Twitter posts like that?

Click the "Insert" button, choose Media, enter the Tweet URL.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Wait before on answer anything, how do you link Twitter posts like that?

You know that button with the three dots? Click that, click "Media", then post the link to the Twitter post.

 

[Yamat08]

You know, even with this in mind, I would've still at least tried to do a dedicated All-Star Mode and replace All-Star Smash with a reworked Rival Smash where you can choose a character to be your rival.

All-Star being what it is in Ultimate was likely a conscious decision. I mean, if you think about it, it should've been very possible to do something more than a Multi-Man type deal even with just the resources already available within Ultimate. And designing a route should've certainly been easier than, say, designing a Classic route for literally every character or around literally a thousand different Spirit Battle set-ups.

The same could probably also be said of some of the other missing modes. Rival Smash? Tell me that a mod couldn't just put that in Ultimate right now. Even Coin Battle should've been doable (I think the models for the coins are already in the game's code..... if I recall correctly, they even show up on the menu whenever you collect in-game currency, though I forget if the coins that pop up are 2D or 3D). Now that I think about it, these modes are kinda like boss battles. They could have been in, yet for whatever reason, they aren't (and all the more reason I advocate for a Deluxe upgrade to Ultimate).

 

[osby]

Imagine if TGA had a trailer of Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2 but it's a fake-out trailer so people think that is a trailer for a new Smash character.

I don't think anyone would think a new Smash character is coming when DLC is finalized and the development team left the game.

Also not really especially when they can focus on First party that need to help like Zelda and Kirby Franchises that desperately need more rep and add any first party that couldn't make it to Ultimate cough cough Waluigi cough.

Don't why you guys seem to forget that Nintendo has a huge catalogue of franchises to pull from. Mario and Pokemon on their own are media's BIGGEST franchises.

If Nintendo(by not being as involved like they did with Ultimate's DLC) and Sakurai play their cards right. It would be a step back. It would actually be a massive upgrade being a return to form.

Zelda and Kirby can get new characters without cutting third parties. And while Mario and Pokemon are indeed big series, they already have so much content that I don't see how adding more will make the fanbase at large excited.

Also, nobody but the most hardcore Nintendo purists think cutting Sonic and Cloud would be an upgrade, let alone a massive one.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Famitsu revealed last week's hardware sales in Japan and Switch had a truly unbelievable 99% marketshare.

Switch software also held all Top 10 spots... pic.twitter.com/f5BhZKnKoc

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) December 9, 2021

I'm honestly shocked there are still devs that haven't jumped on the Switch yet. I'm not talking about the big names like Capcom or Bandai Namco, but companies like Idea Factory, who still primarily focus on Playstation despite the PS5's abysmal sales...

Now that you've mention Idea Factory. Since the next Smash will possibly have a higher age rating, it is time for adding characters from Neptunia?
Gross!!! I don't want too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They could have been in, yet for whatever reason, they aren't (and all the more reason I advocate for a Deluxe upgrade to Ultimate).

It isn't necessarily going to have the budget for such modes.

Part of the reason we've seen port after port after port this past decade is to be cheap, since making new games has become too expensive. This cheapness in these ports can be seen if they get rid of any licensed content, and part of the reason one would want to stick to Ultimate forever is...its licensed content. And believe me, HD/4K ports of games featuring licensed stuff not bringing it all back is very common-I've mentioned how you have to pay extra for Nocturne to feature Dante once more, but there's also stuff like Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit Remastered prioritizing the game's DLC cars over ones that were part of the base game. Hell, a game with far less stuff to relicense has been unable to get any rerelease for the longest time: Tekken 3, which has yet to appear on the Playstation Store as a downloadable title and only got rereleased as part of the Playstation Classic.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Click the "Insert" button, choose Media, enter the Tweet URL.

You know that button with the three dots? Click that, click "Media", then post the link to the Twitter post.

Thanks guys

 

[3BitSaurus]

All-Star being what it is in Ultimate was likely a conscious decision. I mean, if you think about it, it should've been very possible to do something more than a Multi-Man type deal even with just the resources already available within Ultimate. And designing a route should've certainly been easier than, say, designing a Classic route for literally every character or around literally a thousand different Spirit Battle set-ups.

The same could probably also be said of some of the other missing modes. Rival Smash? Tell me that a mod couldn't just put that in Ultimate right now. Even Coin Battle should've been doable (I think the models for the coins are already in the game's code..... if I recall correctly, they even show up on the menu whenever you collect in-game currency, though I forget if the coins that pop up are 2D or 3D). Now that I think about it, these modes are kinda like boss battles. They could have been in, yet for whatever reason, they aren't (and all the more reason I advocate for a Deluxe upgrade to Ultimate).

It isn't necessarily going to have the budget for such modes.

Part of the reason we've seen port after port after port this past decade is to be cheap, since making new games has become too expensive. This cheapness in these ports can be seen if they get rid of any licensed content, and part of the reason one would want to stick to Ultimate forever is...its licensed content. And believe me, HD/4K ports of games featuring licensed stuff not bringing it all back is very common-I've mentioned how you have to pay extra for Nocturne to feature Dante once more, but there's also stuff like Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit Remastered prioritizing the game's DLC cars over ones that were part of the base game. Hell, a game with far less stuff to relicense has been unable to get any rerelease for the longest time: Tekken 3, which has yet to appear on the Playstation Store as a downloadable title and only got rereleased as part of the Playstation Classic.

Yeah, that's the thing. Would I love to have all 89 characters back plus about a dozen others at launch, plus all items modes and stages from Ultimate, plus new ones, plus more third-party content, plus good online, plus new mechanics and at least two seasons of DLC? Yes. I would. I absolutely would.

Problem is, I just can't see a universe where this is feasible. Especially because depending on what the Switch's successor is like no one knows how much work can be ported over and how much needs to be done from scratch. And time, money and human resources aren't infinite.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

People are asking for way too much rn. We can go over the moon of what we want but it's clear in stone what Smash's future is like Roster-Wise.

Let's accept it and move on

I'm guessing you didn't see Shang-Chi, and there's a She-Hulk show coming to Disney Plus that features Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk.

The way I see it, expanding on franchises like Kirby or Zelda and bringing back some of the third party characters are nowhere near mutually exclusive. You can't go "third parties bad" just because Waluigi didn't get in - the two concepts (third party characters being in Smash and Waluigi being stuck as an assist trophy) have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Like it or not, third party franchises help to expand the appeal of Smash Bros. Characters like Sonic, Cloud, Banjo-Kazooie, and Steve getting into Smash have proven to be an extremely big deal, with at least two of those breaking websites. (Sonic broke GameFAQs, at least, and Steve broke Twitter; there were probably others)

There are plenty of great first party additions, but to go back to only first party characters would be like if Capcom announced the next entry in the Versus Series at the Game Awards, only to reveal that it's X-Men vs. Street Fighter 2 - there's absolutely no reason why they'd take a step backwards like that and leave out countless fan favourite characters (Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Morrigan, Dante, Mega Man, Strider, etc.) just because that's how the series started.

I don't see the mindset of "we need to cut all third party characters" often (the only other time that I saw it that I can recall was in a Source Gaming article written by someone who turned out to be a bigot, so I'm not linking to that here), but it baffles me when it comes up; I don't get why someone would want over a dozen series with millions of die-hard fans to be removed for no apparent reason beyond "a return to form". (acting as though the past twenty years of Smash, and the inclusion of non-Nintendo characters, was somehow a bad thing)

When did I say Third Parties Bad?

When did I say are bad cuz Waluigi? He was just an example of first party additions that would be hype and as just as good as a third party.

There Capcom has no reason to go unlike Sakurai and Nintendo would are strain to the roster size. Maybe not EVERY Third parties should cut but a 2-4 MAX guest in a Nintendo-All Star would and should be the route going forward in this eventual reboot that is Smash 6.

Plus honesty, HOT TAKE: the community could use a MASSIVE reduction rn, Ultimate hype cycle and speculation wasn't a great time to go through and maybe a smaller community of members would be. Also the die-hard fans of Smash are Nintendo fans anyways so won't go anywhere.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

People are asking for way too much rn. We can go over the moon of what we want but it's clear in stone what Smash's future is like Roster-Wise.

Let's accept it and move on

Bruh you literally got told that his language was as non committal as possible. It’s not clear or set in stone. His language uses words like maybe, which is the definition of a non answer. He also talks about what fans want, which while you might have a massive desire for cuts, clearly given the ballot most people do not. Legit, the past two pages have been people talking about how cuts are not as likely as you apparently think. Heck, if you look at smash history with cuts, they have avoided them whenever possible.

I know you want to live out your “Nintendo all star” fantasy where smash loses every third party despite the fact that clearly a lot of those have been some of the biggest and most popular smash reveals and characters of all time, but you really need to take a chill pill dude. If your response to two whole pages of people saying you are not right is to dig in your heels, you might want to take a step back.

 

[SPEN18]

one reason it was stated to be chosen is because it fills the niche of having a grappler-based character on the Smash roster

I dislike this reasoning. If he wasn't a grappler, then there still would have been a starter from his gen chosen. Because he was chosen to be promotional first and foremost. Smash survived 4 games without a grappler like Incineroar, and other characters can do other interesting things that we don't have. Being a grappler is not a plus for him over any number of other possible gimmicks a character could have. It only might explain why he was chosen over Decidueye and the other water starter I don't even remember anymore.

Ash owns an Incineroar.

It will forever be more relevant than Jigglypuff.

But people won't complain about Jigglypuff because it was made before 2007.

Recent things aren't bad and are added for legitimate reasons.

"Correcting past recency bias," just makes you sound old and cranky. Age isn't indicative of quality, importance or even fun.

I never said I liked Jigglypuff. That's a separate argument.

I lean towards not counting anime appearances since they're not video game media but they bleed into a mon's popularity and such so it's kind of iffy. And I don't watch the anime but I think Ash rotates his team out enough that Incineroar would become very irrelevant very quickly anyway.

I didn't say anything about age, either. Some things that get added due to "recency bias" or whatever you wanna call it turn out to be great. But it's only years later, say, when a new Smash game is being made, that we can evaluate whether or not those hot and popular picks from 5-10 years ago still hold their weight on the roster. There shouldn't be an auto-include button just because they made it into a previous game under a very specific set of circumstances and criteria that were mostly only relevant to that time period. We should ask if they still make sense to be on the roster, especially when resources could be spent on other things.

--

Also, I never said that all third parties were all bad, just that they should be held to a higher standard for inclusion and scaled back in the next game because they're not Nintendo characters, they're guests. There are some that I like being included, such as Sonic, Banjo. But if importance to Nintendo is not considered, which it mostly hasn't been in Ultimate, then the roster becomes a sort of amorphous blob with no sense of coherence, direction, or aim. "Nintendo All-Stars" is not a fantasy; rather, it seems the best way to have a complete and satisfying roster. The real fantasy is this "celebrate all of gaming" goal that basically has no shot of being attained any time soon.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I agree with Phantom that yes, Smash has moved on to be more third party-centric. Of course there will always be more room for first parties as long as Nintendo keeps making more games but Let's not kid ourselves. Smash Ultimate got so big because now so many third parties like Crash, Master Chief, and Dante are seen as likely and that draws in people. And Nintendo knows that. Like I would like to see how much money Steve alone made.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

When did I say Third Parties Bad?

When did I say are bad cuz Waluigi? He was just an example of first party additions that would be hype and as just as good as a third party.

There Capcom has no reason to go unlike Sakurai and Nintendo would are strain to the roster size. Maybe not EVERY Third parties should cut but a 2-4 MAX guest in a Nintendo-All Star would and should be the route going forward in this eventual reboot that is Smash 6.

Plus honesty, HOT TAKE: the community could use a MASSIVE reduction rn, Ultimate hype cycle and speculation wasn't a great time to go through and maybe a smaller community of members would be. Also the die-hard fans of Smash are Nintendo fans anyways so won't go anywhere.

When your response to multiple people calling you out on being wrong over and over again is to wish to gatekeep the community, maybe you should leave. You literally said that this thread in the past made you have a mental breakdown. If you can’t handle people saying that you are wrong, take a break.

But moreso, I find it disgusting you say the smash community should be smaller. Smash is a game that speaks to a ton of people. Some people want it to be a cool crossover where Mario can fight Pikachu. Some want their favorite characters to make the jump and play with them as well. Some want to compete and get as good as they can at the game. Others just want a party game to play with friends. The game sold over 20 million copies. Millions of people worldwide play or watch smash. And you have the gall to say you want less people to enjoy smash and be part of the community because you don’t like how so many people can be involved in speculation? People have a right to say what they like or don’t. I might think you are incredibly misguided on cuts, but you have that right to discuss them just as much as people have a right to debate you on them.You don’t have the right to tell people to stop speculations on everyone is here, or to shut up about third parties during DLC, or throw a fit when people point out the flaws in the Nintendo all star argument. All I have ever seen you do is try to gatekeep or shut down discussion because it does not align with what you want. And now you want less people to be interested in smash or talk about it so it can be “more fun” for you and you alone.

Grow up.

Smash will only get bigger and bigger. The fan base will only get bigger. The switch rn is massive in Japan and towers above the competition. Nintendo as a brand will not go away, and smash is part of that brand. Instead of throwing a tantrum and, by your own words In this thread, having a meltdown over smash, you should focus on yourself instead of wanting to gatekeep smash as hard as possible.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I agree with Phantom that yes, Smash has moved on to be more third party-centric. Of course there will always be more room for first parties as long as Nintendo keeps making more games but Let's not kid ourselves. Smash Ultimate got so big because now so many third parties like Crash, Master Chief, and Dante are seen as likely and that draws in people. And Nintendo knows that. Like I would like to see how much money Steve alone made.

We've reached the point where it doesn't bring in new players as much as it makes preexisting fans rude to those who want less safe picks. Sakurai literally admitted that Sora would appeal to people who've already bought the game by revealing he was the #1 pick on the ballot.

You wanna know how K. Rool and Banjo were able to be as high as they were on the ballot? Their fans weren't told to shut up and want something more corprorate instead. Which is now what happens when you want anything smaller than Crash/MC/Dante.

 

[DanganZilla5]

You wanna know how K. Rool and Banjo were able to be as high as they were on the ballot? Their fans weren't told to shut up and want something more corprorate instead. Which is now what happens when you want anything smaller than Crash/MC/Dante.

Not true. Not true at all. I support Crypto from Destroy All Humans and while he's definitely an underdog and people seem to brush him off, I still talk about him and why he would be a fun character for Smash. Not many people rile for him, but that doesn't stop me and I certainly haven't gotten any flak for talking about him, or Vectorman.....or Klonoa, among others. And guess what? I have gotten some people to give their games a shot, and even support them.

Don't let a minority of people, and yes it's just a minority, get the way of talking about what you are passionate for. And if anyone does give you ****, you are free to ignore them.

 

[Megadoomer]

When did I say Third Parties Bad?

When did I say are bad cuz Waluigi? He was just an example of first party additions that would be hype and as just as good as a third party.

There Capcom has no reason to go unlike Sakurai and Nintendo would are strain to the roster size. Maybe not EVERY Third parties should cut but a 2-4 MAX guest in a Nintendo-All Star would and should be the route going forward in this eventual reboot that is Smash 6.

Plus honesty, HOT TAKE: the community could use a MASSIVE reduction rn, Ultimate hype cycle and speculation wasn't a great time to go through and maybe a smaller community of members would be. Also the die-hard fans of Smash are Nintendo fans anyways so won't go anywhere.

I feel like I've made my thoughts on the matter pretty clear, so I'm just going to bring up two points:

1) fighting games, especially crossover games, tend to live and die by their roster. I've said it before, but there are plenty of examples - it took people a while (and up to five seasons of DLC) to warm up to Street Fighter V because of the lack of single player content and the small base roster that was missing a ton of fan favourites. PlayStation All Stars was criticized for lacking a bunch of PlayStation all stars, and Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite had the infamous "they're just functions" comment to try and get people to accept the lack of the X-Men, Dr. Doom, etc. (which just made things worse).

2) there is no universe whatsoever where anyone would decide to take a game that literally gets people to buy their consoles (when they might not do that otherwise) and make it less appealing to a broader community. That seems like it would not only cause the Smash game in question to bomb, but it would probably also hurt the sales of that console as a whole.

I'm not sure if you're saying this because you want to focus purely on the competitive scene, or because you want the next Smash game to be more like Melee, or because a first party character that you wanted didn't make it in, or what your reasoning is, but reducing the community and discouraging people from speculating or participating seems like a bad thing no matter how you look at it.

 

[Gengar84]

We've reached the point where it doesn't bring in new players as much as it makes preexisting fans rude to those who want less safe picks. Sakurai literally admitted that Sora would appeal to people who've already bought the game by revealing he was the #1 pick on the ballot.

You wanna know how K. Rool and Banjo were able to be as high as they were on the ballot? Their fans weren't told to shut up and want something more corprorate instead. Which is now what happens when you want anything smaller than Crash/MC/Dante.

I don’t really have that experience personally. I’ve been advocating for smaller characters like the Battletoads, Magus, and even Zegram on here for a while and no one has tried to shut me down. I’m pretty sure not many people share my personal taste in characters and I’m fine with that.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I don't think anyone would think a new Smash character is coming when DLC is finalized and the development team left the game.

There could be a chance that the trailer will be animated by Production I.G. (the ones who animated the cutscenes in #FE), and it start with Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu fighting on Battlefield (make sure that Link is the Breath of the Wild version), but it switches to reveal that the "reveal trailer" is actually one of the characters playing on a Nintendo Switch.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

We've reached the point where it doesn't bring in new players as much as it makes preexisting fans rude to those who want less safe picks. Sakurai literally admitted that Sora would appeal to people who've already bought the game by revealing he was the #1 pick on the ballot.

You wanna know how K. Rool and Banjo were able to be as high as they were on the ballot? Their fans weren't told to shut up and want something more corprorate instead. Which is now what happens when you want anything smaller than Crash/MC/Dante.

First off, third parties naturally bring in new fans. Do you think it’s more likely that someone who has played Golden Sun or has played Crash on the PS1 is more likely to own smash? What about Waluigi or Master Chief? More often then not, first parties tend to already have their fans invested in smash actively. Why else do you think some of the most hype additions were Sonic, Cloud, or Steve to the greater masses? Because they brought in more fans that might not have played smash or are actively in the Nintendo community.

Furthermore, people speculate on characters because they think they would be cool, does for third party. I think Crash, Eggman, and Adol would be sick to see in smash. I also think that Officer Howard, Isaac, and the Chorus Kids would be sick to see as well. People speculate on characters because they like them. Simple as that. The reason Ridley and K Rool did well on the ballot was not because some imaginary third party boogeyman wasn’t keeping them down: they were super popular picks.

People always have been toxic about smash speculation, but it’s a minority. I remember for a long time Isaac fans ****ting on people supporting Saki or Shulk as less safe picks. There were plenty of toxic people in multiple communities. Does that mean that some boogeyman is keeping you from wanting something niche? No. I ran RTC, and we highlighted so many characters that gained support like Crypto, The Prince from Katamari, Danganronpa stuff, and Adol. People made impassioned discussions on a character to help them gain new fans. The only person stopping you from talking about stuff is you. Don’t spend time pitying yourself: make a case for your most wanted. Back it up. Bring more fans to your character. Don’t sit around whining about how people like other characters.

 

[Gengar84]

In my personal experience, people react more based on your attitude than what character you root for. I think what tends to bother people is trying to speak for other people with statements like “Smash fans want…” while putting down everyone that disagrees with your opinion. It gives off the impression of being entitled even if you don’t mean it that way. If you want to have an actual discussion about your favorites, I think it’s better to avoid generalizations and instead explain why you love the character personally.

 

[Trevenant]

Do people still say nintendo purist lol? I haven't seen that get used in months aside from a few people here and there. Not related to any discussion but that was something I thought lacked any usage after it was pretty commonly used lol. Although I guess it depends if you come across those few diehard fans who'd rather smash wipe any reference of non-nintendo stuff which... are pretty rare cos it's not really ideal on any level lol. Especially considering that a lot of these characters are veterans who have had work put into them already. On that basis alone, it'd kinda be a tough pill to swallow. Same goes with vets in general, but it's probably a consensus nonetheless. Idk, probably not too related to the topic at hand

 

[Sucumbio]

HOT TAKE: the community could use a MASSIVE reduction rn, Ultimate hype cycle and speculation wasn't a great time to go through and maybe a smaller community of members would be. Also the die-hard fans of Smash are Nintendo fans anyways so won't go anywhere.

..........

Everyone is Here was a bad thing is what I'm hearing you say so if that's not what you're saying I apologize.

Rather... Ok... So this very thread on the Next Smash... It's community of speculators, character fans etc... You. And I. We...Should be smaller because Everyone is Here is over now and you can only get smaller from there.

? YYeah?

I mean... Ok. Let's say this point is moot. Obviously ULTIMATE lived up to its name as best as possible (during the interview he should have asked if there were any specific challenges they successfully overcame rather than the question that was asked where his response was I don't boast.) It's got the largest roster because it's the final phase of the project going back to that wonky tech demo that became an enterprise.

He's done as it's champion because it's too much work lol. So instead he'll hand the reigns to a team and function as oversight and honestly I think he'll keep the spirit of smash alive and well in that role.

Where you're losing me is why it's so important to limit discussion over a roster that's non existent except in our opinion? To quell wasted choices? That's not your call, right? Move on you say move on from what? The idea that a single character we have in ultimate (or many) don't return? Agreed! It shouldn't matter one lick who was already in the franchise because this some new **** and it'll be sick.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Bruh you literally got told that his language was as non committal as possible. It’s not clear or set in stone. His language uses words like maybe, which is the definition of a non answer. He also talks about what fans want, which while you might have a massive desire for cuts, clearly given the ballot most people do not.

How many must I say that I don't want cuts but it is something that going to happen regardless of my wants.

Do people not read anymore or what?

When your response to multiple people calling you out on being wrong over and over again is to wish to gatekeep the community, maybe you should leave. You literally said that this thread in the past made you have a mental breakdown. If you can’t handle people saying that you are wrong, take a break.

But moreso, I find it disgusting you say the smash community should be smaller. Smash is a game that speaks to a ton of people. Some people want it to be a cool crossover where Mario can fight Pikachu. Some want their favorite characters to make the jump and play with them as well. Some want to compete and get as good as they can at the game. Others just want a party game to play with friends. The game sold over 20 million copies. Millions of people worldwide play or watch smash. And you have the gall to say you want less people to enjoy smash and be part of the community because you don’t like how so many people can be involved in speculation? People have a right to say what they like or don’t. I might think you are incredibly misguided on cuts, but you have that right to discuss them just as much as people have a right to debate you on them.You don’t have the right to tell people to stop speculations on everyone is here, or to shut up about third parties during DLC, or throw a fit when people point out the flaws in the Nintendo all star argument. All I have ever seen you do is try to gatekeep or shut down discussion because it does not align with what you want. And now you want less people to be interested in smash or talk about it so it can be “more fun” for you and you alone.

Grow up.

Smash will only get bigger and bigger. The fan base will only get bigger. The switch rn is massive in Japan and towers above the competition. Nintendo as a brand will not go away, and smash is part of that brand. Instead of throwing a tantrum and, by your own words In this thread, having a meltdown over smash, you should focus on yourself instead of wanting to gatekeep smash as hard as possible.

Can you provide the source of where I said I had a "mental breakdown from Disagreement" because I don't remember that ever happening.

"Smash is a game that speaks to a ton of people. Some people want it to be a cool crossover where Mario can fight Pikachu. Some want their favorite characters to make the jump and play with them as well. Some want to compete and get as good as they can at the game. Others just want a party game to play with friends. The game sold over 20 million copies. Millions of people worldwide play or watch smash."

How does a Nintendo All Stars prevent that exactly? People seems do everything you just mention with 64, Melee and Brawl just fine actually.

Wasn't Brawl the best selling game in series before Ultimate came around?

"You don’t have the right to tell people to stop speculations on everyone is here, or to shut up about third parties during DLC, or throw a fit when people point out the flaws in the Nintendo all star argument. All I have ever seen you do is try to gatekeep or shut down discussion because it does not align with what you want. And now you want less people to be interested in smash or talk about it so it can be “more fun” for you and you alone.

Grow up"

Bit ironic to claim i'm having a meltdown yet you doing just that.

Where did I say I want to shut down all the speculations or shut up about third parties exactly? Even that, how does Nintendo All- Stars stop this? I did say 2-4 MAX of third party guests would be fine like Brawl or MK8D did for other Nintendo properties.

Are you actually make actual arguments about things that actually happen or you still going to make up strawmen that never happened because those shampoo bottles seems to be having a good time.

I want the community to decrease because I want speculation and overall being community being a good thing again instead the disaster that Ultimate's DLC run. 2020 was honestly a terrible time to be Smash fan for reasons I explained before. Not the Nonsense that came to your mind.

I feel like I've made my thoughts on the matter pretty clear, so I'm just going to bring up two points:

1) fighting games, especially crossover games, tend to live and die by their roster. I've said it before, but there are plenty of examples - it took people a while (and up to five seasons of DLC) to warm up to Street Fighter V because of the lack of single player content and the small base roster that was missing a ton of fan favourites. PlayStation All Stars was criticized for lacking a bunch of PlayStation all stars, and Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite had the infamous "they're just functions" comment to try and get people to accept the lack of the X-Men, Dr. Doom, etc. (which just made things worse).

2) there is no universe whatsoever where anyone would decide to take a game that literally gets people to buy their consoles (when they might not do that otherwise) and make it less appealing to a broader community. That seems like it would not only cause the Smash game in question to bomb, but it would probably also hurt the sales of that console as a whole.

I'm not sure if you're saying this because you want to focus purely on the competitive scene, or because you want the next Smash game to be more like Melee, or because a first party character that you wanted didn't make it in, or what your reasoning is, but reducing the community and discouraging people from speculating or participating seems like a bad thing no matter how you look at it.

As I mention before. Nintendo and Sakurai has many to many franchises to dig deep from Nintendo alone. There is a reason they are the biggest corporation in Japan for a reason. Having a great roster from that alone is clearly possible so first point doesn't hold that much water. Neither does the second. No way a game in an established franchise which the 1ST(Pokémon) and 5nd(Mario) biggest franchise in MEDIA on top other successful franchise from Nintendo would ever flop unless both Nintendo and/or Sakurai does something so stupid and repulsive for that to happen.

Unless we are all willing to agree that 64,Melee and Brawl are flops and the series didn't get good until 4 then there is no need for all this fear mongering.

Again for someone who will miss the point

I DON'T LIKE CUTS AND WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. EVERYONE IS HERE WAS A GOOD IDEA!!!!!!!!!

I would also love to be a billionaire and live a very great life as well but no-one of that is feasible is it now?

Everyone is here wasn't going to stay forever. It was a one time thing for Smash for it's anniversary at 2019. Same for the "celebration of gaming" It was fun(at the beginning) but like all good things, they must come to an end.

If you guys are still clamouring for this stuff, why not go over to games like Fortnite where you guys' hopes and dreams are actually possible. It seems to be a true celebration of gaming and then some. Gears of War, the Rock and SPIDERMAN join dropped. Y'all should check out sometime.

 

[Sucumbio]

Do people not read anymore or what?

I DON'T LIKE CUTS AND WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. EVERYONE IS HERE WAS A GOOD IDEA!!!!!!!!!

......

See that's the problem. Saying everyone in ultimate should be spared because you don't like it is one point. I agree it's ****ty to say ha ha sonic doesn't deserve to be in Smash. And yes Ultimate was great!

But you're suggestion of dwindling 3rd parties to 4? Or maybe none.... The original project was limited to Nintendo characters because Sakurai barely got the ok to even make the game but it was done so well assets within inches of their desires and it paid off.

Now? The sky's the limit! When speculation becomes more than whether they're even developing a new game soon we have no reason to not consider any video game character.

 

[MattX20]

Honestly, I can't see Nintendo pulling the reboot switch on Smash, especially not after how much of a huge hit Ultimate is. The bare minimum I can see them doing is an Ultimate Deluxe/Final edition if they don't want to do a full on new sequel.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

How many must I say that I don't want cuts but it is something that going to happen regardless of my wants.

Do people not read anymore or what?



Can you provide the source of where I said I had a "mental breakdown from Disagreement" because I don't remember that ever happening.

"Smash is a game that speaks to a ton of people. Some people want it to be a cool crossover where Mario can fight Pikachu. Some want their favorite characters to make the jump and play with them as well. Some want to compete and get as good as they can at the game. Others just want a party game to play with friends. The game sold over 20 million copies. Millions of people worldwide play or watch smash."

How does a Nintendo All Stars prevent that exactly? People seems do everything you just mention with 64, Melee and Brawl just fine actually.

Wasn't Brawl the best selling game in series before Ultimate came around?

"You don’t have the right to tell people to stop speculations on everyone is here, or to shut up about third parties during DLC, or throw a fit when people point out the flaws in the Nintendo all star argument. All I have ever seen you do is try to gatekeep or shut down discussion because it does not align with what you want. And now you want less people to be interested in smash or talk about it so it can be “more fun” for you and you alone.

Grow up"

Bit ironic to claim i'm having a meltdown yet you doing just that.

Where did I say I want to shut down all the speculations or shut up about third parties exactly? Even that, how does Nintendo All- Stars stop this? I did say 2-4 MAX of third party guests would be fine like Brawl or MK8D did for other Nintendo properties.

Are you actually make actual arguments about things that actually happen or you still going to make up strawmen that never happened because those shampoo bottles seems to be having a good time.

I want the community to decrease because I want speculation and overall being community being a good thing again instead the disaster that Ultimate's DLC run. 2020 was honestly a terrible time to be Smash fan for reasons I explained before. Not the Nonsense that came to your mind.




As I mention before. Nintendo and Sakurai has many to many franchises to dig deep from Nintendo alone. There is a reason they are the biggest corporation in Japan for a reason. Having a great roster from that alone is clearly possible so first point doesn't hold that much water. Neither does the second. No way a game in an established franchise which the 1ST(Pokémon) and 5nd(Mario) biggest franchise in MEDIA on top other successful franchise from Nintendo would ever flop unless both Nintendo and/or Sakurai does something so stupid and repulsive for that to happen.

Unless we are all willing to agree that 64,Melee and Brawl are flops and the series didn't get good until 4 then there is no need for all this fear mongering.

Again for someone who will miss the point

I DON'T LIKE CUTS AND WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. EVERYONE IS HERE WAS A GOOD IDEA!!!!!!!!!

I would also love to be a billionaire and live a very great life as well but no-one of that is feasible is it now?

Everyone is here wasn't going to stay forever. It was a one time thing for Smash for it's anniversary at 2019. Same for the "celebration of gaming" It was fun(at the beginning) but like all good things, they must come to an end.

If you guys are still clamouring for this stuff, why not go over to games like Fortnite where you guys' hopes and dreams are actually possible. It seems to be a true celebration of gaming and then some. Gears of War, the Rock and SPIDERMAN join dropped. Y'all should check out sometime.

Right ****ing here my guy. The responses to your post here honestly are telling. Funny you were called out for that one at the time too. You can have as many bad takes as you want, but don’t claim I ain’t telling the truth when literally a month ago you flipped out and got called out for it.

For someone that doesn’t like people talking about how they only talk about third parties being cut and cuts in general, you seem to talk about cuts a lot and want to nuke the third party section of the roster lol.

The community as a whole has grown, deal with it. Was 2020 a good year? Absolutely not. Does that mean the smash community should shrink?No, absolutely not.

Im not going to waste anymore of my time on you. If you somehow don’t notice how much you get called out every time you post this sort of stuff, you are a lost cause.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Honestly, I can't see Nintendo pulling the reboot switch on Smash, especially not after how much of a huge hit Ultimate is. The bare minimum I can see them doing is an Ultimate Deluxe/Final edition if they don't want to do a full on new sequel.

Well you better because it was confirmed. Brawl was a big hit on the Wii but it didn't stop them from performing cuts.

Right ****ing here my guy. The responses to your post here honestly are telling. Funny you were called out for that one at the time too. You can have as many bad takes as you want, but don’t claim I ain’t telling the truth when literally a month ago you flipped out and got called out for it.

For someone that doesn’t like people talking about how they only talk about third parties being cut and cuts in general, you seem to talk about cuts a lot and want to nuke the third party section of the roster lol.

The community as a whole has grown, deal with it. Was 2020 a good year? Absolutely not. Does that mean the smash community should shrink?No, absolutely not.

Im not going to waste anymore of my time on you. If you somehow don’t notice how much you get called out every time you post this sort of stuff, you are a lost cause.

How is that mental breakdown? Guess having a different opinion/rebuttal counts as meltdown apparently.

I don't have to like something to talk about it. Guess when tragedies happen in the world and people talk about it, I guess they like it according to you.

Hey, if you don't want the accept the facts. That's your problem. You do you. Still doesn't change the fact it will happen not matter how much we argue. Sakurai confirmed it twice and it's what every fighting game go through so in a way, you're right. It is a waste. It is what is.

Again, there are other games out there that are willing what you want. Fortnite funny enough is looking kinda good rn.

I don't like it but you can't run from the inevitable.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Can we talk about something positive for a change? Like, um... Xenoblade trending because of the Game Awards! Xenoblade trending is always a good thing, right?

Man, I'm starting to realize it might be hard to talk about Smash when Smash is in hibernation at the moment...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Now? The sky's the limit! When speculation becomes more than whether they're even developing a new game soon we have no reason to not consider any video game character.

The problem is, we're not ACTUALLY acting like any video game character is on the table. Even with the occasional "hey wouldn't Adol be cool" speculation was still dominated by a select few.

Hell I don't even know what the point of primarily focusing on third-parties is right now when DLC is over and the base game is never dominated by them the same way Ultimate's DLC was. Unless all your third-party fantasies magically coincide with the 2 third-party newcomers they add in Smash 6's base, you're gonna be waiting a long while for another dev cycle focused on licensing them.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Sora isn't coming back for Smash 6 most likely. Disney licensing is an absolute pain.

 

[Trevenant]

Has anyone seen that Unown Rivals workshop character? It pretty much has something similar to Kazuya's tilts going on, except with all of it's buttons, where each direction corresponds to a different attack. The thing is that the attacks change it's form and when you change form, it spells out crap on your HUD, and if you spell out a word, it turns its taunt into some giant explosion based on how long the word was. The whole dictionary was practically programmed in, and it technically has like 20 different forms.. It's amazing yet absurd. If you haven't checked it out, even watch gameplay of it.. It's ridiculous how much must have went into programming it lol. I guess this could be a good segue into my question..

Anyone have any similarly absurd mechanic ideas for characters you want, or just who have potential to have that much potential? If you want a more smash example, then Steve or Hero should be good baselines... But Unown is still better.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Can we talk about something positive for a change? Like, um... Xenoblade trending because of the Game Awards! Xenoblade trending is always a good thing, right?

Man, I'm starting to realize it might be hard to talk about Smash when Smash is in hibernation at the moment...

Oh you are talking about those Xenoblade 3 rumors right? I want them to be right so badly but I don't want to hype myself up and get disappointed like I was with the September Direct when I was expecting it. You know I will be in here jumping up and down if the game gets announced, though.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

No way! It can't be!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Wonder Smash]

Sora isn't coming back for Smash 6 most likely. Disney licensing is an absolute pain.

People said similar things about Square-Enix and we ended up getting 3 characters.

No way! It can't be!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

You sure seem surprised about something that already happened a year ago.

 

[PeridotGX]

People said similar things about Square-Enix and we ended up getting 3 characters.

i get your point. we're getting xehanort, club penguin, and tony stark in smash 6.

 

[chocolatejr9]

club penguin

Now THAT, I can get behind...

Although for what it's worth, apparently Disney recently revealed in an interview that they're changing the way they approach video games (hence Sora in Smash), so who knows...