Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

Fans: "We want more elements from Fire Emblem to be represented than just sword fighters."

Those same fans: "Take out Corrin, our only Manakete character."

And before you say, why not put in Tiki? Tiki cannot do the same stuff as Corrin with conjuring up parts of herself aside from wings. Only Corrin, out of every Manakete aside from their children, can conjure parts of themselves.
Unless of course for Tiki, you want an transformation character equivalent to Gabranth from Dissidia Final Fantasy where outside of their dragon form, they are very weak and KO easily, but she has a way to fill up a meter that turns her into dragon mode when fully filled where she is almost impossible to KO while outright destroying most of the cast, making even a perma"GO" Terry and perma-rage Kazuya look Bottom-tier in comparison.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm not explicitly asking for Corrin to be removed, because I enjoy playing as them. But they're kind of the uncomfortable middle child of Robin (Awakening) and Byleth (Three Houses), two games that mark more substantial turning points for the series and Corrin hasn't gained the goodwill of Smash fans that someone like Ike or Roy have. So they just feel the most expendable, despite being one of the most unique and quite frankly one of the most fun.

I think they're still fairly popular in Japan though?

And before you say, why not put in Tiki?

From a sheer character standpoint, I like the idea of Tiki because I think Fire Emblem is due for another "legacy" character whose influence is felt across the series. Tiki being one of the most recurring faces is a nice nod to the series' traditions, but I find it difficult to advocate for her seriously given both the way Fire Emblem representation worked up to this point and an uncertainty about how to make her as interesting as Corrin without borrowing too heavily from Ridley or Charizard in the process. But I'd be pretty glad if the next Fire Emblem character was someone a little subversive tapping into the more consistent aspects of the series over the newest thing. Just to buck that trend - could be someone like Lyn too who has just maintained high popularity over all this time.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I do.

And Byleth was just Corrin 2. Which makes the obligation double!

Okay. Can I have your Sources on why you’re saying this other than “Fire Emblem Bad add Dante.”

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Weirdly enough, I had that idea for a Phoenix Down item.

Wouldnt that just be the flag item?

 

[Wonder Smash]

The Sakurai statement about Shulk is just saying that most of the slots, especially higher-priority slots, are going to go to the bigger series. Smaller series still clearly have a chance to be considered but aren't going to get as many resources or as much priority devoted to them. Which is pretty consistent with how everything has always worked.

That statement doesn't have anything to do with how Shulk fights. It's 100% unrelated to the number of sword users.

I was referring to how sword characters are viewed as a higher priority by the fans nowadays, due to how many of them are in the roster. So even if Shulk's series wasn't seen as one of the bigger ones during that time, the fact that he was swordsman would probably be seen as giving him an edge over most characters.

 

[Sucumbio]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

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Let's celebrate!

 

[Perkilator]

Wouldnt that just be the flag item?

Actually, the Special Flag gives you a stock, whereas the Phoenix Down (in my mind), would prevent you from losing one. I guess for the sake of avoiding redudancy, we can change the Special Flag's functionality? Couldn't tell you how to go about it, though.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

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Now they just need to put this game on the Nintendo Switch Online.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

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Happy Birthday to the Game that started it all!

 

[fogbadge]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

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feel old yet?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

feel old yet?

I feel just fine.

 

[Sucumbio]

Actually, the Special Flag gives you a stock, whereas the Phoenix Down (in my mind), would prevent you from losing one. I guess for the sake of avoiding redudancy, we can change the Special Flag's functionality? Couldn't tell you how to go about it, though.

I missed the Phoenix Down suggestion but I would be totally down especially if it used an animation similar to FF6 and once applied you'd turn reddish in color and while in this state any launch past the blast zone is then "rewound" placing you back where you launched from and then bestowing a few frames of invincibility so you can reposition or counterattack without the risk of someone just KOing you again in loop.

 

[Noipoi]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

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25 years of the greatest gaming crossover in history!

From 12 of Nintendo's best, to damn near 100 gaming icons. Smash isn't just a fighting game, it's a celebration of gaming in general. And I can't wait to see where the series goes next!

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly imagine if the next Smash Game is a Remake of Smash 64. Never happening but it would be cool. Also have y’all ever checked out Smash Remix? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Fans: "We want more elements from Fire Emblem to be represented than just sword fighters."

Those same fans: "Take out Corrin, our only Manakete character."

And before you say, why not put in Tiki? Tiki cannot do the same stuff as Corrin with conjuring up parts of herself aside from wings. Only Corrin, out of every Manakete aside from their children, can conjure parts of themselves.
Unless of course for Tiki, you want an transformation character equivalent to Gabranth from Dissidia Final Fantasy where outside of their dragon form, they are very weak and KO easily, but she has a way to fill up a meter that turns her into dragon mode when fully filled where she is almost impossible to KO while outright destroying most of the cast, making even a perma"GO" Terry and perma-rage Kazuya look Bottom-tier in comparison.

The thing is, more than half of Corrin moveset is just them using the sword. And even her transformation move, most of them are just Corrin's arm transforming into a spear, which is much more boring than it should be. Some of their special are fairly unique, but even there they really had to give them a counter.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Honestly imagine if the next Smash Game is a Remake of Smash 64. Never happening but it would be cool. Also have y’all ever checked out Smash Remix? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Smash Remix is really cool and I like the "what if" take it has on Smash 64, since it includes N64 characters that were relevant at the time like Conker, Goemon, and Marina. Even characters that didn't exist at the time (like Dark Samus) are labeled as originating from "future release" in-game, which is a really cool touch. It has a lot of great character and stage ideas that I wish we could have seen in the actual Smash games. I've played it, it's a fun time and it's clear that a lot of care was put into it.

 

[Speed Weed]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

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Happy 25th anniversary, hopefully it won't take another 25 years to add Karnov

 

[RileyXY1]

This may be harsh, but I think it's probably for the better that Sakurai takes a "wait and see" approach for new franchises. People give Nintendo a lot of crap for only sticking to a handful of core franchises, but this wasn't true up until about the end of 2019 or so. Nintendo would introduce smaller, new IPs like Pushmo, Hotel Dusk, and Elite Beat Agents. The only problem is that the best that these franchises would get was a couple of entries across a handful of years before being abandoned. In this environment, I think it makes sense to avoid characters that represent then-new IPs, as blindly adding all of these characters in would likely result in a lot of choices that kind of age poorly. Jill from Drill Dozer is cool, but she'd be a bit out of place in Smash in 2024 given how obscure and forgotten her game is.

I'm assuming Sakurai was referring to this general pattern of not adding characters from new franchises immediately when discussing this above Shulk quote. Xenoblade Chronicles was a barely 2-year-old game that had just received a limited international release when Shulk was selected for Smash, which bucks this trend. Given that Shulk was unveiled in a Japan-only Nintendo Direct, I wonder if Sakurai was even aware of Xenoblade's North American release at the time Shulk was selected. I guess Sakurai just really liked the character and saw a lot of potential in him.

Also, getting this upset over someone's subjective judgment that a quote that is no longer representative of the present has aged poorly is kind of tacky. There're no hard and fast rules about what does and does not age poorly. It's all a matter of opinion.

Speaking of Jill, she would be a pretty cool character to see all things considered.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

For the anniversary of the series, they should bring back Super Smash Bros Slamfest like they did with Nintendo World Championships.

 

[Ivander]

The thing is, more than half of Corrin moveset is just them using the sword. And even her transformation move, most of them are just Corrin's arm transforming into a spear, which is much more boring than it should be. Some of their special are fairly unique, but even there they really had to give them a counter.

More than half of their moves are also them using their dragon powers.

• Their regular A attack has them hit twice with their sword with their 3rd attack being a mouth that repeatedly beats the foe.
• Their Forward Smash has them using their chainsword hitting their foe while charging up their arm for a horned appendage attack.
• Their Up-Smash doesn't use their sword at all, instead using their transformed arms to attack upward.
• Their Down-Smash has them attacking both sides, attacking the front with their sword and behind them with their transformed leg.
• With their air attacks, they attack with their sword for Forward and Up Air, with their feet and wings with Down and Back Air, and with both for their Neutral Air.
• Aside from blocking with their sword before countering with Down B, none of their other Specials use their sword, not even Side B.
• Then their Final Smash doesn't use their sword at all either.

So believe it or not, both their Sword and Transformed Appendages are used almost equally.

• Neutral A, Forward Smash, Down Smash, Neutral Air and Down B use both.
• Their Tilt As, Forward Air and Up Air use only their sword.
• Their Up-Smash, Back Air, Down Air, Final Smash and remaining B Specials use only their transformed parts.
• While I can't remember all their throws, I at least remember their Down Throw has them transformed fully.

So yes and no. Corrin does use their sword for half their moveset, but their transformation moves do too. And if looking at the moves that don't use both, they have more moves using their transformation alone than they do moves that use their sword alone.

 

[BuckleyTim]

The Assist Trophies were the big kicker for me. Poké Ball summons, too. Ever since half of them started to become too OP, totally interrupting the flow of the fight, I've been pushed more and more to itemless battles. I'm not even a huge competitive player! I still play with stage hazards almost every time. It's just that those summons are way too much. Wish you could turn off individual ones.

Seriously, it sucks that these "honorable mentions" have become so overturned that casual matches have become more about who can pop the most summons than the sweet spot we had in melee/brawl. This is why Im rooting for AT's to be retooled into something like MK1 assists or something. It's so much dev time for something that isn't fun to play against at all.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Fans: "We want more elements from Fire Emblem to be represented than just sword fighters."

Those same fans: "Take out Corrin, our only Manakete character."

And before you say, why not put in Tiki? Tiki cannot do the same stuff as Corrin with conjuring up parts of herself aside from wings. Only Corrin, out of every Manakete aside from their children, can conjure parts of themselves.
Unless of course for Tiki, you want an transformation character equivalent to Gabranth from Dissidia Final Fantasy where outside of their dragon form, they are very weak and KO easily, but she has a way to fill up a meter that turns her into dragon mode when fully filled where she is almost impossible to KO while outright destroying most of the cast, making even a perma"GO" Terry and perma-rage Kazuya look Bottom-tier in comparison.

Actually, yes I would love a revenge mechanic where the meter drastically changes the character and their moveset instead of an overtuned version of their regular set. I also believe it would be a better representation of the manakete mechanic precisely because it’s not contingent on the specific visual quirks of Corrin’s dragon form.

More than half of their moves are also them using their dragon powers.

• Their regular A attack has them hit twice with their sword with their 3rd attack being a mouth that repeatedly beats the foe.
• Their Forward Smash has them using their chainsword hitting their foe while charging up their arm for a horned appendage attack.
• Their Up-Smash doesn't use their sword at all, instead using their transformed arms to attack upward.
• Their Down-Smash has them attacking both sides, attacking the front with their sword and behind them with their transformed leg.
• With their air attacks, they attack with their sword for Forward and Up Air, with their feet and wings with Down and Back Air, and with both for their Neutral Air.
• Aside from blocking with their sword before countering with Down B, none of their other Specials use their sword, not even Side B.
• Then their Final Smash doesn't use their sword at all either.

So believe it or not, both their Sword and Transformed Appendages are used almost equally.

• Neutral A, Forward Smash, Down Smash, Neutral Air and Down B use both.
• Their Tilt As, Forward Air and Up Air use only their sword.
• Their Up-Smash, Back Air, Down Air, Final Smash and remaining B Specials use only their transformed parts.
• While I can't remember all their throws, I at least remember their Down Throw has them transformed fully.

So yes and no. Corrin does use their sword for half their moveset, but their transformation moves do too. And if looking at the moves that don't use both, they have more moves using their transformation alone than they do moves that use their sword alone.

Honestly all they need to do is make more draconic moves mechanically distinct from the swordstrikes. Forward Smash is a great example of a move that actually makes use of their draconic nature to change their gameplan with the extra range, but the dragon parts in moves like Neutral Air don’t really push the envelope gameplay-wise. That or add Dragon’s Vein as an actual representation of Fire Emblem Fates’ biggest gameplay hook to really sell the power in Corrin’s manakete nature.

 

[RileyXY1]

For the anniversary of the series, they should bring back Super Smash Bros Slamfest like they did with Nintendo World Championships.

And with the bigger roster there's even more entrants than before. Here's who I want to join the ring as well:

Fox
Ness
Peach
Daisy
Marth
Lucina
Pit
Dark Pit
Lucas
Sonic
Lucario
Toon Link
Villager
Mega Man
Greninja
PAC-MAN
Shulk
Inkling
Isabelle
Banjo & Kazooie

It will be a straight up tournament to determine the winner.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

And with the bigger roster there's even more entrants than before. Here's who I want to join the ring as well:

Fox
Ness
Peach
Daisy
Marth
Lucina
Pit
Dark Pit
Lucas
Sonic
Lucario
Toon Link
Villager
Greninja
PAC-MAN
Shulk
Inkling
Isabelle
Banjo & Kazooie

It will be a straight up tournament to determine the winner.

It would be fun to see full official theme park-esque life size costumes for many of the newcomers from Melee-Ultimate for the first time (as well as some of the other eight 64 characters not in the original event). They could even bring some of the 1st Party ones as full time characters for Super Nintendo World.

 

[HyperSomari64]

And with the bigger roster there's even more entrants than before. Here's who I want to join the ring as well:

Fox
Ness
Peach
Daisy
Marth
Lucina
Pit
Dark Pit
Lucas
Sonic
Lucario
Toon Link
Villager
Greninja
PAC-MAN
Shulk
Inkling
Isabelle
Banjo & Kazooie

It will be a straight up tournament to determine the winner.

Is there any working mascot costumes for certain characters? I say because how would a Pac-Man costume be right without black arms or legs.
Also, where's Mega Man?

 

[RileyXY1]

Is there any working mascot costumes for certain characters? I say because how would a Pac-Man costume be right without black arms or legs.
Also, where's Mega Man?

They might have to make new ones entirely for some characters.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

It's hard to describe what a weird novelty Smash 64 was prior to release. Some nascent platform fighters existed, Capcom was starting to put non-fighing game figures like X-men in 1v1 releases, and crossover fighters were already created by SNK with King of Fighters, but so much of that was outside the context of Nintendo that many hardcore fans didn't initially know what to make of a game that was combining all three. It was exciting to see the initial previews/advertisement for it, but I recall even at the time it was paired with a genuine curiosity/reticence on how this whole concept could even be executed. It sticking the land as well as it did is almost as impressive as Metroid Prime proving the doubters wrong, it's just something that was gradually forgotten about as the 64 original became superannuated by later releases and Smash clones started making the concept seem more like an obvious move rather than the innovative blend it really was.

 

[Will]

Yes! My favorite item in Brawl and my most wanted item to return in the future. It has just enough shots so if you hit launch repeatedly while keeping the angle moving from straight up to sideways and back they'd crisscross just right and KOnat least one unlucky soul if not more. Perfect for FFA.

I also want it back, but “Cracker Launcher” needs a name change.

 

[NintenRob]

Fact is with Corrin, despite being decently unique, he's probably the least popular character in the game. And if we start shrinking the Roster. I'd sooner start cutting from franchises that have a lot to cut. Fire Emblem, Mario and Pokemon. Even Zelda has a fair bit you could justify.

 

[Arcanir]

I think they're still fairly popular in Japan though?

Overall yes, in the FE Fates poll from after its release (which was mostly Japanese, though global players could still vote) FCorrin got 1st for females and MCorrin 5th for males. FCorrin also was a nearly constant Top 10 Female in the CYL polls until she won last year, though MCorrin didn't make it into Top 20 males until two years ago, five polls in.

So they're popular in Japan, and FCorrin is very popular in general, though there is a very notable gap in popularity between the two that isn't present with any other Avatar character in the series (even the Alears seem to be closer based on the CYL interim results from a few days back).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I also want it back, but “Cracker Launcher” needs a name change.

Change it to Cracker Barrel.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Corrin and Robin I think are the two Fire Emblem characters that didn't really manage to connect with the fanbase. Marth, Roy and Ike are classics; Byleth has become well liked; Chrom and Lucina go by different standards, and yeah Robin and Corrin kinda get lost in the shuffle. There's a ton of other series in Smash after all.

For me personally, Corrin Is kinda fun but not as much as Marth if I want pure swordplay, and not as much as the Belmonts if I want some crazy range. And Robin has some very interesting stuff but has never fully come together to me. Not sure why.
It's all personal feelings though.

But you know what Fire Emblem needs? A paladin on a horse.
That would be instantly super unique and it's something only Fire Emblem can provide. I know it's probably impossible though

 

[Sucumbio]

This is when I change my name to Shoegazer until the talk about FE cuts is over

 

[Louie G.]

Corrin and Robin I think are the two Fire Emblem characters that didn't really manage to connect with the fanbase.

While I don't play Robin all that much I do give them a lot of props for being a mage character in a series that needed something fresh and really, on a roster that has surprisingly few of them. They are the core Awakening "rep", they depict a new class, etc. And I think they're the FE character who does the most to diversify. Granted, by design they are a niche and are probably not going to get as much play as other easier to pick up FE characters like Ike or Byleth.

I do feel like Robin needs a little bit more bang for their buck if they're going to have to abide by limited resources. Comparing to say, Hero who has a similar resource based MP mechanic but can perform way crazier spells to compensate. The moveset doesn't need to be shaken up too much, maybe just given a little extra oomph. I'd really like for them to stick around though, they're high priority to bring back in my eyes.

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly I hold similar feelings toward all 3 of the FE avatar characters. I wanted all of them but I wound up being a bit disappointed with the execution.

While Robin does have spells, he's still primarily a swordie. Not that that's a bad thing, I think the Levin Sword suits them, but I wish they had more magic in their moveset.

I think I've said my piece on Byleth plenty at this point, but I still would've preferred a moveset focused on the Sword of the Creator with some other classes mixed in as opposed to using the other Lords' weapons.

Corrin is actually the one I find the most interesting/fun to use, but I do agree that they could have taken the manakete stuff a little further. And of course given them a non counter down special.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Robin is my favorite Fire Emblem character. And their reception was super positive.

How did he get lost in the swaths of Fire Emblem characters? It's not like Robin isn't popular.

 

[NintenRob]

Robin is probably my favourite Fire Emblem character. Time to tip the scale is iconic and I'd hope he becomes a regular in the series

 

[HyperSomari64]

This Fire Emblem talk is boring.

Why we change the topic to...idk...their mortal enemy/greatest rival: Cereal Box Mascots?

Yeah, the ride will never end.

 

[CannonStreak]

This Fire Emblem talk is boring.

Why we change the topic to...idk...their mortal enemy/greatest rival: Cereal Box Mascots?

Yeah, the ride will never end.

If it means I can have some Mari-Os while taking part in this conversation, count me in!