Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

I sometimes forget Robin is in the game

 

[Will]

I sometimes forget Robin is in the game

I like Robin, but it can be a pain to switch between the regular and Levin sword on command. The faithful durability mechanic can also be your doom. Using the wrong jab attack can affect your recovery.

But damn I feel like a tactician when I win with him.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Cereal Box Mascots?

Better yet, Nintendo should just make the entire roster Cereal Box Mascots by releasing cereals for all their major franchises.

In addition to the Mario and Zelda cereals, imagine Animal Crossing Cereals, Splatoon Cereals, Kirby Cereals, Metroid Cereals, Pikmin Cereals, etc. It would be sugary heaven.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Robin is my favorite Fire Emblem character. And their reception was super positive.

How did he get lost in the swaths of Fire Emblem characters? It's not like Robin isn't popular.

It's admittedly hard to gauge, but it's not that he's controversial or unpopular, it's more that it doesn't feel like everyone and their mother plays him, unlike Marth (more Lucina nowadays), Ike or Byleth. That's all I was trying to say.
Then of course, he's difficult to play and he has a self-limiting gimmick. He's one of those characters that add more to the roster while also being more limited in how many players they can attract compared to more hurr durr fighters.

 

[dream1ng]

Robin is my favorite Fire Emblem character. And their reception was super positive.

How did he get lost in the swaths of Fire Emblem characters? It's not like Robin isn't popular.

I think part of the reason his reception was super positive was because

• it "killed" Gematsu (at least at that point it seemed to), which gave hope to outcomes other than those it claimed
• it wasn't Chrom, who was a very divisive pick due to being seen as very derivative
• it was a FE character who did something more than swords

So I think a lot of the popularity was from what Robin wasn't, as much as it was what Robin was

I think Robin has just suffered from what happens when there are so many characters, the ones people are kinda "yeah, they're cool but whatever" end up getting lost in the crowd. Robin also lacks being particularly longstanding, recently added, or the sole series representative, which can help in notability.

I also think avatar characters don't always strike the same chord with people as super defined characters. If you look at the most requested characters throughout Smash, very few of them have been avatars.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Is there any working mascot costumes for certain characters? I say because how would a Pac-Man costume be right without black arms or legs.

Consider the following:

 

[fogbadge]

I sometimes forget Robin is in the game

i forget little mac and snake are in the game

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think part of the reason his reception was super positive was because

• it "killed" Gematsu (at least at that point it seemed to), which gave hope to outcomes other than those it claimed
• it wasn't Chrom, who was a very divisive pick due to being seen as very derivative
• it was a FE character who did something more than swords

So I think a lot of the popularity was from what Robin wasn't, as much as it was what Robin was

I think Robin has just suffered from what happens when there are so many characters, the ones people are kinda "yeah, they're cool but whatever" end up getting lost in the crowd. Robin also lacks being particularly longstanding, recently added, or the sole series representative, which can help in notability.

I also think avatar characters don't always strike the same chord with people as super defined characters. If you look at the most requested characters throughout Smash, very few of them have been avatars.

At the time of Smash 4, Robin's status as a base game character that wasn't a clone greatly helped them avoid rancor among the more cynical non-FE crowd to a degree. They weren't seen a character taking up a valuable DLC slot or (to such a pessimistic audience) viewed as an unoriginal addition seemingly existing to pad out the FE representation even further.

 

[dream1ng]

At the time of Smash 4, Robin's status as a base game character that wasn't a clone greatly helped them avoid rancor among the more cynical non-FE crowd to a degree. They weren't seen a character taking up a valuable DLC slot or (to such a pessimistic audience) viewed as an unoriginal addition seemingly existing to pad out the FE representation even further.

Well at the time Robin was revealed there was no thought of valuable DLC slots or the FE roster being padded. This was before it was known there would even be DLC (it was thought sensible and entirely possible, but people weren't focusing on it, and it hadn't been confirmed), and prior to Robin's reveal it was only Marth and Ike. So yes, Robin avoided that rancor, but that rancor didn't exist yet anyway.

People weren't yet mad about the quantity of FE, and it was pretty accepted the count would increase by one, whether Chrom, Lucina, Robin or Roy. Chrom was definitely the most expected at that point, in part due to the Gematsu leak, and a lot of people weren't psyched about it because by many he was seen as a boring, derivative character, and people wanted more than blue-haired sword-wielders. But it wasn't assumed he would inherently be a clone. And crucially, the concept of another FE character didn't bother people, especially coming off Awakening. It only had two at that point.

Then after Robin and Lucina were revealed, there was a sense of that being the cap of how much FE there could be before people would start complaining. Then of course Roy showed up, but as a popular vet he intensified the feeling of FE being oversaturated but didn't elicit any backlash himself. And had it stopped there people probably would've been much more amenable to Byleth. But then Corrin was the straw the broke the fanbase's back.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Byleth also had the bad fortune of being a the last DLC character of fighter's pass that previously all had third party figures, arrived when speculation about Dante (and others) was running rampant, came in a very "meh" executed reveal video, and debuted in a Smash only presentation with no general Nintendo news to alleviate potential disappointment/disinterest in them.

Corrin certainly made things worse and the series getting additions with much more consistency than other franchises (base game 4 with Robin, 4 DLC with Corrin, base game Ultimate with Chrom) set the stage, but even the context of Byleth's showcase seemed to maximize the backlash.

 

[smashkirby]

The big name characters are what gets eyes on Smash, but the weirdos are what makes it special. I can't imagine Smash without Jigglypuff, the Ice Climbers, Mr. G&W or the Duck Hunt dog at this point.
It's also the only (or one of the very few) places where you get to play as characters like Ridley, Ganondorf, King K. Rool, a Piranha Plant, or even Falco and Zelda. And the 3rd party characters are all popular but you wouldn't expect to see them in the same game.

Bah, if Smash was only about Nintendo's usual faces it would be a way worse series.

Spitting facts there! For real, it's THOSE types of characters that I stick around for myself. Just like you said, I don't know if I'd be THAT invested in Smash if all they did was Nintendo's usual song-and-dance of characters.

Remember when niche Nintendo franchises seemed like they had a shot?

Remember when niche Nintendo franchises seemed like they had a shot?

sigh

Well, at least I've still got this site to look back on...

characterselect

web.archive.org

Something I'll always remember is when Shulk was announced for Smash 4 on the old Miiverse site...

"not the type of character that would usually appear in the Smash Bros. series" to me, always felt like a kinda sorta middle finger to IPs and characters like Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, etc

I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel the same way at the time...

I know I'm late to the party here, but...

"Mr. G&W slander"

Mr. Game & Watch is a really cool addition, and we need at least some Game & Watch representation seeing as it was one of Nintendo's first video game franchises. Would Assist Trophies work? Sure. However, the creativity of a concept like Mr. Game & Watch is something I really admire, and I like seeing retro characters be playable in general. Give me Sukapon, dammit.

Indefatigably based

I really hope the chances of him getting in one day aren't completely dead, even if - realistically - the misplacing of JMF's documentation until 2007, coupled with Smash's shifting priorities, means it grows less and less likely with the day.

I just want my funny comedy fighting robot man

Ngl, after remembering Ms. Mokujin from Tekken 3, I've been wondering about a "Mrs. Game & Watch" joining Smash. I know there's no way in heck that's happening, but it makes one think...

Also, Sukapon fans rise up! Nice to see there's still folks out there who want the comedy robot to join Smash! Heck, the guy hails from Nintendo's first actual fighting game (depending on how you look at Urban Champion and Punch-Out!!).

With all the obscure franchises getting some kind of revival, it makes me hopeful that Nintendo will one day bring back Tomato Adventure even without AlphaDream.

You and me both... I mean, there IS that Tomato Adventure concept art that was all the buzz a couple of years ago...

I’m still hopeful for Another Treasure Island to get a modern remake, myself

You mean Marvelous? You know, I actually made a Dion, Max, and Jack support thread when Ultimate was set to come out...

If the next game brings in another character from a forgotten franchise I'd really like to finally see Mach Rider. His Melee trophy was randomly super hype, and he has a motorbike and machines guns and he can split into particles and regenerate himself and he'd have a Mad Max style stage. That's like super cool.
Sukapon, Muddy or the Sable Prince would also be great. I've missed a character of this kind in Ultimate, one of those old relics that get a strong reimagining and bring something truly unique to the table.

Lip from Panel de Pon and Saki from Sin and Punishment would also be good choices in this regard.

It's why I support so many retro/obscure/niche series, primarily from Nintendo! Heaven knows Nintendo has more than what they know what to do with. That said, I think that's partially why I still strongly support characters like Lark, Ray from Custom Robo, Barbara the Bat, and so many others. Seeing such characters get thrust into the modern day, interacting with characters who have had far more 'presence' is something that'll never get old for me, ESPECIALLY in regards to Smash Bros.

Happy 25th Anniversary to Super Smash Bros 64 and the Smash Bros series as a whole!

View attachment 383258

Happy 25th anniversary to my first video game ever, and the most fun I've ever had with a fighting game! :D

 

[Amornal1]

I think that a western pick nobody recogizes its too likely for a future smash bros it's an apex legends hero due to his popularity in japan:https://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/sp...gamers can be seen,across iOS and Google Play.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that a western pick nobody recogizes its too likely for a future smash bros it's an apex legends hero due to his popularity in japan:https://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/special-report/79719/how-did-apex-legends-top-the-charts-in-japan/#:~:text=Japanese gamers can be seen,across iOS and Google Play.

I don't know if EA would ever get a rep in Smash, considering how little EA has supported the Switch this past decade. Plus, it would be weird if Apex Legends got in before the likes of Halo, Doom, or even Wolfenstein.

 

[Amornal1]

I don't know if EA would ever get a rep in Smash, considering how little EA has supported the Switch this past decade. Plus, it would be weird if Apex Legends got in before the likes of Halo, Doom, or even Wolfenstein.

Welp, if disney can be in smash bros, then Nintendo can negotiate with EA.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Apex gettings the Smash rep due to its popularity in Japan would be incredibly funny, considering that Epic has been non-stop begging Nintendo to add skins of their IP for years at this point.

I do wonder what Nintendo's thoughts on crossovers truly are, considering that iirc there's a BOTW promotion with.... ff14 i think that is visible on ps4 if you play on there and someone has the items. There's also stuff like Ganondorf in Diablo 3's switch edition.

 

[Oracle Link]

Zelda is probably one of the only more fun and Big Franchises in smash with little to no good merch!
Like You wanna know which new (as in since LAR release) Figures there are of zelda?
2 BOTW LINK and Zelda!
Thats it!
Like Even if you consider zelda to be not fit enough for merch...
Were the F are Links awekening link and ganon(Dorf) LAR Link has a great or atleast simple design and ganondorf is the main villain!
And its basically as bad with plushies!
I mean Toon/ Botw link and zelda are perfect choices and Octoroks are just the correct choice for Plushies but How did we get a heartcontainer, Triforce, Hyliashield and 3 Koroks before a SECOND Ganon(dorf) Plush yes i said that right... Second!
Like there was one for OOT 3ds no OOTS release and a windwaker ganondorf handpuppet im not even sure is real and thats it!
Like imagine there was only one or two Bowser plushies that you cant even get anymore how ludicrous is that!
Imagine if there wasnt any merch of Any of the other Bosses! imagine if Toad only got one actionfigure releasing at mario 64s release!
And than YOURE Told to just buy statues NO i wanna play with those and you cant play with statues!
... Puh that was it all and heck maybe we get this lego set which only has 3 minifigs with botw link and zelda AGAIN D: but hey atleast we get our first modern younglink thing minus amiibo which is atleast maybe something!

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Apex Legends is surprisingly big in Japan to the point I could see someone like Wraith be on Nintendo's/Sakurai's radar for the next Smash's DLC, but it's a mixed bag. Not something I'm fully confident in, but something that would not surprise me in the least.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I wouldn't say Apex chances are 0%, but tbh I'd be pretty shocked if this was our first fps rep before Doom and Master chief who both got more support and much bigger legacy, and also being more "safe" pick in a way because they're not live service online games so their games can not just disappear from existence at any moment (not that I'm expecting Apex to shut down anytime soon but still).

 

[RileyXY1]

And when it comes to third party characters, they tend to prioritize legacy characters. The newest third party IP that has a character in Smash right now is Minecraft, which depending on one's interpretation debuted in either 2009 or 2011. The only third party character in Smash that's newer than that is Joker, who debuted in 2016, but Persona is a much older franchise than that.

 

[Oracle Link]

And when it comes to third party characters, they tend to prioritize legacy characters. The newest third party IP that has a character in Smash right now is Minecraft, which depending on one's interpretation debuted in either 2009 or 2011. The only third party character in Smash that's newer than that is Joker, who debuted in 2016, but Persona is a much older franchise than that.

And thats a good thing!
Do you really think we need stuff from the millions of bad fad games!
Like there are sooo many games that are pretty bad and/or only popular cause of youtube!
Granted there are good games in that category but you usually only know they are good/ have stying power years after!

 

[RileyXY1]

And thats a good thing!
Do you really think we need stuff from the millions of bad fad games!
Like there are sooo many games that are pretty bad and/or only popular cause of youtube!
Granted there are good games in that category but you usually only know they are good/ have stying power years after!

Pretty much. This is the reason why I'm not expecting live service games to ever have a rep in Smash. They'll just be shut down sooner or later and they won't have much staying power after that.

 

[Opossum]

I mean...even if, hypothetically, Apex shut down, the property is still directly tied to the Titanfall series. So like...the series would still be there.

But also I don't really think the whole "x should get in first because of the legacy" applies here. It's a very different set of circumstances. Not all FPS games are the same. Apex is a battle royale, Halo is a more traditional modern FPS, and Doom falls into the "boomer shooter" sect. But Apex also wouldn't get in because of legacy, but rather insane popularity. You can't really overstate how popular Apex Legends is, so it's at the very least a viable contender for consideration.

 

[dream1ng]

Welp, if disney can be in smash bros, then Nintendo can negotiate with EA.

I'm sure they can, but whether they actually would is another question.

There are still plenty of popular IPs in both regions, I don't see this being the one they land on, frankly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nintendo could also see some sort of Mii Costume from Apex as taking advantage of its popularity while still keeping outright fighter focus elsewhere.

 

[Amornal1]

I'm sure they can, but whether they actually would is another question.

There are still plenty of popular IPs in both regions, I don't see this being the one they land on, frankly.

Yeah, but Nintendo prioritizes japanese gaming for smash bros, the only exception, Banjo kazooie was more for his legacy on Nintendo consoles and being in the top 5 of the ballot.

Nintendo could also see some sort of Mii Costume from Apex as taking advantage of its popularity while still keeping outright fighter focus elsewhere.

Welp, i never said the next smash bros, rather a future smash bros game.

 

[dream1ng]

Pretty much. This is the reason why I'm not expecting live service games to ever have a rep in Smash. They'll just be shut down sooner or later and they won't have much staying power after that.

If you can stay popular as long and at the levels some of these live service games have, ala LoL or Fortnite, that's an accomplish just as impactful and meaningful as some of the third-parties we get. I mean League has been going strong for over a decade, has a TV show and multiple spin-off games.

I mean...even if, hypothetically, Apex shut down, the property is still directly tied to the Titanfall series. So like...the series would still be there.

Yeah but the part it would be added for isn't Titanfall. They're tied to each other but separate enough that they're not really going to help each other's Smash chances.

Like if Nier stopped but we kept getting Drakengard, it's not really the same as continuing to get Nier.

Nintendo could also see some sort of Mii Costume from Apex as taking advantage of its popularity while still keeping outright fighter focus elsewhere.

This seems more likely to me.

But still I'm not sure Nintendo is even going to approach EA. Not necessarily out of spite or anything, just more a sense of them not really being a priority.

Yeah, but Nintendo prioritizes japanese gaming for smash bros, the only exception, Banjo kazooie was more for his legacy on Nintendo consoles and being in the top 5 of the ballot.

Well no, Nintendo prioritizes global gaming for Smash Bros, and the main exception has been Dragon Quest, which is heavily lopsided towards Japan.

Apex doesn't eschew this, but my point is there are still many other IPs which also fit this which I think are just likelier to be included.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Pretty much. This is the reason why I'm not expecting live service games to ever have a rep in Smash. They'll just be shut down sooner or later and they won't have much staying power after that.

You know Splatoon is an online shooter right?

 

[Amornal1]

I still think that a chosen undead should be the next namco rep.

I think that if we're talking about western characters, jonesy and crash are the only ones i could see for smash 6 actually.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

A Amornal1
Hey, try not to double post; you've been doing that a couple times.

Just edit your message to include what else you're going to say.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’ll champion a Dark Souls character til the day I die if it means we get the music.

 

[RileyXY1]

You know Splatoon is an online shooter right?

It's not a live service game like Apex Legends or Fortnite.

 

[Louie G.]

I think there are plenty of live service titles that have established more than enough of a name for themselves to be viable. Fortnite, Apex Legends, Overwatch, League of Legends, World of Warcraft. The latter two have been around for over a decade (two in WOW's case) and are still fairly strong brand names. Even if the original game eventually shuts down, the characters and world will likely continue through some other means. And Fortnite is really just getting started, now becoming more of a host for several games of different genres. I don't see any of these properties disappearing any time soon.

How do I feel about it? Personally I do find it a bit strange to tiptoe around, knowing that someday a player may not be able to go back and experience the origin of said content in Smash, but I like a character like Jonesy or Tracer are probably here to stay within the video game zeitgeist for the foreseeable future. Whether we like that or not. The live service model in general is also not going anywhere anytime soon and may progressively become something unavoidable to acknowledge in Smash Bros.

Do I think any of them will be playable? Well not really, I think Jonesy or some Fortnite character (would prefer one of the sillier skins to be the default) has a shot down the line but I don't really think any of the others are the kind of characters on Sakurai or Nintendo's radar right now. LOL and WOW feel very detached from the Smash sphere of influence, and I feel like Tracer kinda missed her chance last game if she ever had one. Honestly, I don't know enough about Apex but I'll just echo the sentiment that it would be weird to see it beat Halo or DOOM to the punch. Even if they're very different in practice.

 

[fogbadge]

I don’t think live service games should be celebrated in smash

 

[HyperSomari64]

Ignore this.
Misread the post

 

[CapitaineCrash]

But also I don't really think the whole "x should get in first because of the legacy" applies here. It's a very different set of circumstances. Not all FPS games are the same. Apex is a battle royale, Halo is a more traditional modern FPS, and Doom falls into the "boomer shooter" sect. But Apex also wouldn't get in because of legacy, but rather insane popularity. You can't really overstate how popular Apex Legends is, so it's at the very least a viable contender for consideration.

I do agree that not every fps is the same, and Master chief, Doom slayer and any Apex character would have vastly different moveset. But the thing is, at the end of the day all 3 are the same archetype of "dude shooting with futuristic guns in sci-fi settings". I feel like there's a much bigger overlap between those franchise than say, Persona and Dragon quest in fighter pass 1 despite also both coming from the same genre (turn based jrpg). In that way, I do feel that if we're going to get a fps characters, they're going to start with only one character, and then if there's more content in future update they could open the door for the others.

 

[dream1ng]

I think the fanbase sleeps on Dark Souls a lot. Like, it's acknowledged that the inclusion makes sense, but they never seem at the forefront of predictions. And of the series that wouldn't get included due to fanbase demand, I think they're as good a bet as anyone else. Maybe behind Monster Hunter and Resident Evil.

 

[fogbadge]

Ignore this.
Misread the post

well now I’m really curious

 

[HyperSomari64]

well now I’m really curious

I did't saw the Live on Live Service Games, and I thought you we're talking abou Sega.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

At the bare minimum, Dark Souls Mii Costumes seem like a no-brainer thing to do. Various armor sets and notable characters to choose from for a costume or two (Solaire being an obvious one).

 

[dream1ng]

Don't worry about not necessarily being able to go back and play the live service game, that character will probably be added as DLC and one day you won't be able to download them any more either.

And bruh the Miiverse is already down I don't think they give a **** about including eventually obsolete stuff if it's meaningful in the moment.