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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Wonder Smash

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I had mentioned more invincibility items. Only one of them can be used in a match. There's already the Super Star from Mario but there can also be the Invincible Candy from Kirby (where the player has to pick it up in order to become invincible) and Invincibility Box from Sonic (which requires the player to hit the box in order to become invincible).
 
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MasterCheef

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
Gold Flower = Mario Series

Dark Emperor , ( attack & defense & speed Boost ) = ( Mii / Smash ? ) Series

Aries Armor = Reduces ( damage received, & getting knock-back ) . Kid Icarus

Max potion = fully restores health & replaces ( heart container )

Halo Club = The charged shots from the Halo Club shoots out large rings, while it's dash shots produce spinning halos stacked together that are fast. & replaces ( Ore Club )
 
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DarthEnderX

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I think the idea here is that the ink produced by the item would be tied to the fighter that uses it.
Ah, I see. Even with the damage boost, still seems like it'd be of limited use to someone that doesn't use it for movement or refueling.
 

Sucumbio

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Having never played splatoon I don't know about anything item wise in the game. Same with ARMS... Actually are there even items in ARMS?
 

Wario Wario Wario

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This was an idea for a new item I was toying around with in another thread, it'd be pretty resource heavy but I thought it was a fun thing to think about.



Worst comes to worst it could literally just be Rambi or be limited to specifically the DKC animal buddies.
I've personally wanted Rambi as a full playable character for a LONG time, I know he's an AT shoo-in given his canonical role, and it might be hard to make a moveset for a quadruped with such stiff and stubby limbs, but I think he'd be really fun as a superspeedy ultraheavyweight. I do prefer him as DK's 4th rep over Dixie at least.
 
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Opossum

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Having never played splatoon I don't know about anything item wise in the game. Same with ARMS... Actually are there even items in ARMS?
In the traditional sense, not really. But in the side modes, kinda. One of the items I put on my list of five was the V-Ball from the volleyball side mode.
 

Sucumbio

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In the traditional sense, not really. But in the side modes, kinda. One of the items I put on my list of five was the V-Ball from the volleyball side mode.
Cool! I was wondering where you got the idea it's pretty neat.

On a side note I also noticed Breidablik got multiple votes which is interesting.
 

Garteam

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So this is a fantastic point and I appreciate that you brought it up. I do want to clarify that I don't want Mac fundamentally being a grounded character to be walked back, I would just like it to be less extreme or for him to be given more options. But you make a good case here for why Little Mac is functionally a valuable character and why he's found a large casual playerbase. Probably the best argument I've seen against my own stance on the matter tbh.

That being said, there's a bit of a circular issue here right? Like you mentioned, it's the same deal as Ganondorf. You have characters who are individually fun to play and easy to pick up, but now dedicated fans of those characters externally are stuck with versions of them that don't do them full justice. The question from there becomes which audience will take priority, and historically it's clear that Smash does not want to alienate those who already enjoy the way they characters are. In which case a fan of Little Mac like myself might just wish he was done the "right way" from the beginning.

I have qualms with Little Mac as a Punch-Out fan first and a Smash player second, because I think Smash has too heavily leaned into aspects of his character that are not really accurate or important and now we might be in too deep to walk it back. Him being so exploitable makes Little Mac feel weak and the choice to give him some armor to just truck through an enemy attack feels antithetical to how you play Punch-Out. But my voice is one in a sea of many other people who don't care about that, maybe never even played Punch-Out, does not care about game balance and will pick Little Mac every time. So unless they take major effort to rework every character next time, and that's if Little Mac is even fortunate enough to return in such a drastic scenario, I don't have a lot of faith in things changing too much either.

And that's fine - I still have fun playing him, despite my concerns. I like your suggestions if they must stick with all the traits they've already attributed to him. I mostly just don't want Little Mac to be a joke anymore, so fine at this point if it means leaning even harder into what's already here. On top of your suggestions I REALLY think Little Mac should adopt Terry's attack out of dodge mechanic, that's literally fundamental to Punch-Out after all. I think there are tweaks they can make that would be beneficial to both opposing parties and I hope they'll give him that attention in the future.
Yeah, I definitely understand why a lot of people are frustrated about the way Little Mac is portrayed in Smash. It's never fun to have a character is hyper unpowered relative to the rest of the cast and constantly feeling like Sisyphus as you have to work to regain a lead after being caught off stage once. I played Little Mac in Smash for Wii U for a bit, so I have some personal experience with the character and some match-ups can get pretty brutal (:4cloud: was a special kind of pain). I also really want him to feel better at a competitive level and I hope he comes back in the next Smash with the tools to be a real character and not just some spectacle who is only noteworthy for being garbage.

Where I think I disagree with a lot of people when it comes to Little Mac is the idea that he'll never be functional until he has good aerials and/or they tone down his ground game. I don't think it is accurate to call Little Mac polarizing, as that implies he's got a really solid ground game in competitive matches but I don't think that's true. First, making his throws bad is counterintuitive to his entire archetype, limiting the offensive routes that Little Mac can take in a grounded state. Likewise, his combo game is very weak, relying more on stringing stray hits together relative to pulling off consistent, hit percentage combos off of a single hit. Would giving Little Mac better aerials, even if those aerials are subpar, solve these problems? Maybe, but it's not the only potential solution here. I think it would be better to see if we could give him the tools necessary for his present archetype to work competitively before a massive overhaul is implemented.
I think Mac's biggest issue above all else competitively right now is that he just feels power crept. :ultsteve: and :ultkazuya: fulfill Little Mac's archetype a lot better than him. They're characters with major mobility issues that nevertheless get by with powerful grounded options that allow them to approach the neutral in novel ways and easily capitalize off certain advantage states. It's a little sad that the Minecraft character is more built around weak, multi-hit combos than the Punch-Out character, who instead has to rely on patiently racking up stray, powerful hits. I know these two aren't the most balanced characters in the world, but I do think there is proof that Little Mac's poor competitive performance is a product of being undertuned rather than conceptually unworkable.

Also, I absolutely agree on Little Mac getting a spot dodge-attack. Maybe this attack could stun Little Mac's opponent he could easily transition to a combo of his choosing? That could be a fun way to incorporate the rhythm of Punch-Out's gameplay into Smash.
 

Wonder Smash

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Yeah, I think Little Mac using a spot dodge-attack would make a lot of sense for him. He could still keep the Slip Counter but now also have the spot dodge-attack.
 

CapitaineCrash

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I don't have a lot of ideas for items but I could definitely see a Splatoon sub weapon/special become one to make further use of the ink mechanic. Sprinkler and/or Ink Storm mainly
Honestly I'm surprised Splatoon didn't get a single items in Ultimate. It just feels like most sub weapons would work naturally as an items, especially the Sprinkler, the Autobomb or Toxic mist. Rainmaker could be super fun too, and other Special weapons like Ink storm and Inkzooka could work very well too.

Cool! I was wondering where you got the idea it's pretty neat.

On a side note I also noticed Breidablik got multiple votes which is interesting.
I don't really get why is Breidablik even that popular to be honest. Wouldn't it be just an assist trophies for Fire emblem characters? How would it be different than current assist? Maybe I'm missing something because I never played Heroes but I don't see the point of "Assist trophies but for one franchise" when we already have an items that combine every franchise (and I know we have Pokéball, but this make sense because they precede the Assist trophies concept).
 

Ivander

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I don't really get why is Breidablik even that popular to be honest. Wouldn't it be just an assist trophies for Fire emblem characters? How would it be different than current assist? Maybe I'm missing something because I never played Heroes but I don't see the point of "Assist trophies but for one franchise" when we already have an items that combine every franchise (and I know we have Pokéball, but this make sense because they precede the Assist trophies concept).
Because Fire Emblem has a large cast of characters with different classes much like Pokemon, so a Pokeball-like item for Fire Emblem characters would allow characters who could never appear in Smash Bros. due to their class or whatnot, like Pegasus Knights like Caeda and the Whitewing Sisters or Cavalry characters like Xander or Reinhardt, Wyvern Riders like Minerva or Camilla and a whole lot of other classes like Armor Knights, Archers, Mages, Healers, Beast units like Kitsunes or Laguz, etc.
Most of them are basically not going to get in Smash as a character, so the Breidablik being a Pokeball equivalent for Fire Emblem would basically allow them to have a chance at appearing as a helper in Smash Bros, allow them to be true to their classes and movesets and represent Fire Emblem's constant changing cast of characters.

Plus the Breidablik is literally a gun so you are literally shooting out the character you are summoning to attack foes, which is cool as heck. And you can add the FE Assist Trophies to the Breidablik summon pool and allow other characters to appear in their AT spots.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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Honestly I'm surprised Splatoon didn't get a single items in Ultimate. It just feels like most sub weapons would work naturally as an items, especially the Sprinkler, the Autobomb or Toxic mist. Rainmaker could be super fun too, and other Special weapons like Ink storm and Inkzooka could work very well too.



I don't really get why is Breidablik even that popular to be honest. Wouldn't it be just an assist trophies for Fire emblem characters? How would it be different than current assist? Maybe I'm missing something because I never played Heroes but I don't see the point of "Assist trophies but for one franchise" when we already have an items that combine every franchise (and I know we have Pokéball, but this make sense because they precede the Assist trophies concept).
Because Fire emblem has hundreds of characters so to avoid annoying people by making them playable making them a summon just makes sense.
 

Gorgonzales

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I've personally wanted Rambi as a full playable character for a LONG time, I know he's an AT shoo-in given his canonical role, and it might be hard to make a moveset for a quadruped with such stiff and stubby limbs, but I think he'd be really fun as a superspeedy ultraheavyweight. I do prefer him as DK's 4th rep over Dixie at least.
I would not mind a playable Rambi. Though now that I think about it, isn't it weird how DK never got an Assist Trophy until Ultimate, and it didn't even end up being an animal buddy? You'd think they'd pick someone like Squawks or Rambi or Squitter or something.

Poor Yoshi doesn't even have an assist trophy when Poochy is right there. I'd prefer Poochy to be playable, but the poor dog doesn't even have a spirit.
 

Garteam

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Today is the 30th anniversary of my favourite game of all time.

Here's to hoping X and/or Zero make it into Smash 6 or really any game in the near future. I think they have a really strong shot if the next Smash game focuses on expanding the representation of some of the third-party franchises. Mega Man seems to be one of the easiest, if not the easiest, licenses to work with when it comes to third parties in Smash given the massive amount of supporting content that the franchise currently has in Smash.
 

CapitaineCrash

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I would not mind a playable Rambi. Though now that I think about it, isn't it weird how DK never got an Assist Trophy until Ultimate, and it didn't even end up being an animal buddy? You'd think they'd pick someone like Squawks or Rambi or Squitter or something.

Poor Yoshi doesn't even have an assist trophy when Poochy is right there. I'd prefer Poochy to be playable, but the poor dog doesn't even have a spirit.
Kamek would also make a lot of sense for a Yoshi assist. Again, I'd rather have him playable, but he would be cool as an assist too.
 

DarthEnderX

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Because Fire emblem has hundreds of characters so to avoid annoying people by making them playable making them a summon just makes sense.
Fire Emblem needs it's own Pokeball item. Some kind of banner that when you throw it, it summons a random FE character. :p

Kamek would also make a lot of sense for a Yoshi assist.
Kamek would make the most sense as a Mii Mage costume.
 
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Louie G.

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Here's to hoping X and/or Zero make it into Smash 6 or really any game in the near future. I think they have a really strong shot if the next Smash game focuses on expanding the representation of some of the third-party franchises. Mega Man seems to be one of the easiest, if not the easiest, licenses to work with when it comes to third parties in Smash given the massive amount of supporting content that the franchise currently has in Smash.
I'm not sure if Mega Man would be the next in line to receive another character, particularly over Sonic or Street Fighter, but if we do get another Mega Man character it's pretty much guaranteed to be one of those two. I'd wager Zero is in pretty great shape in particular getting that AT billing, a Mii Costume and being upgradable to a 4-star spirit.

Capcom has so much internal competition and I'm banking pretty hard on Chun-Li where I'm not fully convinced yet but I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if it panned out. I do generally believe, especially after Sephiroth, next game will start to humor those supplemental third party characters since some are among the most notably recognizable and popular characters absent right now. And certain parties, particularly Sega / Capcom are pretty much throwing their IPs at anyone who asks for them at this point. Street Fighter is in like, everything and Mega Man is practically treated like first party in Smash.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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IMO Stork is the best pick for a second Yoshi rep - we don't really have a bird fighter (in the sense of body shape - of course Falco is a bird, but we don't have a character with a moveset built around non-anthro bird body), he's basically the Peach of the Yoshi series, another cutscene-only character like Sheik would be fun, and I could imagine the babies playing into the moveset in an interesting way. Perhaps if Wario is heavy Jigglypuff, Stork is ultraheavy Jigglypuff.
 
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Gorgonzales

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IMO Stork is the best pick for a second Yoshi rep - we don't really have a bird fighter (in the sense of body shape - of course Falco is a bird, but we don't have a character with a moveset built around non-anthro bird body), he's basically the Peach of the Yoshi series, another cutscene-only character like Sheik would be fun, and I could imagine the babies playing into the moveset in an interesting way. Perhaps if Wario is heavy Jigglypuff, Stork is ultraheavy Jigglypuff.
I've only seen a few Stork advocates in my time on this earth, but man if they aren't dedicated to their character pick.... mad respect. Stork isn't my first choice for a Yoshi rep but its unique body shape practically guarantees a moveset that'll stand out from the rest of the cast, and that's before you add baby characters into the mix (like you said).
 

Mamboo07

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I would not mind a playable Rambi. Though now that I think about it, isn't it weird how DK never got an Assist Trophy until Ultimate, and it didn't even end up being an animal buddy? You'd think they'd pick someone like Squawks or Rambi or Squitter or something.

Poor Yoshi doesn't even have an assist trophy when Poochy is right there. I'd prefer Poochy to be playable, but the poor dog doesn't even have a spirit.
I would straight up have Poochy as the 2nd Yoshi rep.

I love playing as fighters being animals, creatures, and monsters.
 

Louie G.

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Assuming Kamek / Magikoopa would probably fall under the Mario label, Poochy would definitely be my choice if we had to expand on Yoshi. Aside from being a really appealing and adorable character, Smash could use some more quadrupeds. He doesn't have a ton of source material to work with, mostly pretty typical dog stuff, but using his design as a base he's got a big tongue to swing around and his simplicity probably allows him to contort into a ball and thrust himself around. Very much a big dumb turn your mind off character.

Generally I don't think Yoshi needs someone new and I consider it more of an extension of Mario than Wario or DK. It's kind of grandfathered in as its own series, but for the sake of discussion I do genuinely like Poochy and would be happy to see that happen.
 

SPEN18

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So:
People who like FE want Breidablik because it can expand non-playable representation for a series which, like Pokemon, has a lot of popular characters.
People who don't like FE want Breidablik because they view it as an NPC dumping ground for characters they don't want to be playable.
Somehow, everyone wants Breidablik?

Seriously, though, if a Pokeball-like item happened for FE, it wouldn't stop us from getting playable FE reps. It doesn't work like that. This would only be in addition to whatever FE reps they want to make playable.

The one reason I'm not sure Breidablik or something similar would happen is it would be quite a bit of work to implement every character that's going to appear. They already manage with Pokemon, so it's not impossible, but just a matter of whether they would be willing to do something similar for a franchise that is, well, not Pokemon.

In terms of it being "just more FE ATs." Well, technically that's what it would be, but (1) to manage workload, probably most of the summons would be functionally simpler than most of the ATs, and (2) partly it would be to separate out the FE characters into a different category so people don't complain about too many of the ATs being from FE. Both (1) and (2) apply to a certain extent to the existing Pokeball item, for PKMN instead of FE of course.
 

Ivander

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And really, when you look at some of the characters who appear in Fire Emblem, nothing else would scream satisfying then watching somebody who knows little about Fire Emblem aside from the playable characters and summon a character that looks nothing like your average Fire emblem character and going, "That's a Fire Emblem character?!"


Fafnir_King_of_Desolation_Dragon_BtlFace.png
 

Gorgonzales

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I love playing as fighters being animals, creatures, and monsters.
Really, any pick that's an unconventional shape is most likely cool by me - spaceships from shmups, weird abstract 70s stuff, non- or semi-anthro animals, give me it all
Fighters of non-conventional shapes / species are literally my favorite kinds of characters in the series and I wish we got more of them. Kirby, Ivysaur, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Piranha Plant are just a few of my favorite examples. Some new faces I'd like to see with funny anatomy would be Poochy, Boggy B (from Worms), The Prince of All Cosmos (assuming the Katamari is basically the main fighter), Bulborb, and the Space Invaders. As an avid moveset writer, it's super fun trying to design moves for any given oddball character, especially if they lack conventional limbs.
 

Geno Boost

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Really, any pick that's an unconventional shape is most likely cool by me - spaceships from shmups, weird abstract 70s stuff, non- or semi-anthro animals, give me it all
Same character like Sukapon, space invaders, moai from gradius, red from angry birds, Tetromino, gem from bejeweled and hornet from Daytona would be funny to have
 
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Kirbeh

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If we're talking unconventional body/movesets, I actually really want Pallosand. Yes, I want to play as a sandcastle. A living (undead because ghost type?) pile of sand that can change shape sounds fun.
1702842245529.png
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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Since Geno Boost Geno Boost mentioned it, I think Angry Birds is very slept on in Smash speculation. A very major IP that, while having minimal appearances on Nintendo consoles, would be easy to sell to a Nintendo-based fandom due to how pretty much everyone owns a phone or tablet regardless of hardware loyalty, also a zoomer nostalgia pick, which worked out very well for a certain racially-ambigious blockhead. Even without the Sega buyout, AB feels like as much of a no-brainer as someone like Ryu or Pac-Man both in terms of "should it happen?" and "could it happen?" (I will say that, being as side-character-pilled as I am, I'd prefer the Bad Piggies over the birds, driving around in their box cars, but either is fine)

I also think Flappy Bird would be fun to have in some form - can't imagine a playable Faby, but maybe an item or AT. The controversy didn't stop it from getting a stage in Indie Pogo at least.
 
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Kirbeh

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ah yes, the best ground type
Its genuinely one of my favorite Pokemon introduced in Gen 7. That said, sticking to ground types, I'm also fond of the ideas of playable Mudbray and Golurk. Golurk does have a more conventional humanoid shape, but come on, I can't say no to the big ghost robot. I imagine they could even take a little inspiration from how Sentinel was designed in the Marvel vs Capcom series. Also he happens to be another Ground/Ghost. That type combo is consistently good design wise at least.
 
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