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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Garteam

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Honestly, I always really disliked changing the foundations of :ultlittlemac:'s moveset. Anecdotally, Little Mac's moveset is pretty great for getting newcomers into Smash if they're not that comfortable with platformers. One of the toughest aspects of getting decent at Smash is learning how to maneuver properly and go on the offence in the air, so it's nice from a design perspective to have options that allow players to capitalize heavily off their most basic tools. It's kind of like reworking Ganondorf. Would he benefit professionally from being less polarizing in his strengths and weaknesses? Sure, but you'd piss off the mountains of casual fans who like Ganondorf because he's the most powerful but slowest character in the game. So much of Ultimate's cast has their neutral and advantage states built off being in the air already, we can have a couple of characters buck that trend.

:ultsteve: and:ultkazuya: already demonstrate how you would theoretically fix Mac while leaving his aerial game untouched; you have to make sure Mac's tool set has the options necessary to address his most exploitable weaknesses. Mac's throws are oddly poor, so buff those or give him something to respond to shields that is more reliable than KO punch (maybe let him cancel jab into F-Smash to more easily threaten shield breaks?). On the flip side, he currently doesn't have a great out-of-shield option, so let him Up-B out of shield to let him play a little more defensively. Let his Neutral-B reflect projectiles so it has utility beyond wonky super armour. That sort of thing.

Making Slip Counter a back dash that goes at a downward angle in the air is genius though. It fits the character, it reinforces his design philosophy, and it gives him another option of exiting disadvantage in the air. 10/10, no notes.
 
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Kirbeh

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Or how about a Pokémon maker?
I don't think the whole level maker thing lends itself as well to RPGs. What would you even make? Short routes to drop a couple trainers in? Would you pick the players team composition and levels?

To make a good custom pokemon experience you kind of need to make a whole region to explore, and I highly doubt that TPC would offer the tools to do so, let alone sign off on the idea in the first place.
 

Louie G.

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Honestly, I always really disliked changing the foundations of :ultlittlemac:'s moveset. Anecdotally, Little Mac's moveset is pretty great for getting newcomers into Smash if they're not that comfortable with platformers. One of the toughest aspects of getting decent at Smash is learning how to maneuver properly and go on the offence in the air, so it's nice from a design perspective to have options that allow players to capitalize heavily off their most basic tools. It's kind of like reworking Ganondorf. Would he benefit professionally from being less polarizing in his strengths and weaknesses? Sure, but you'd piss off the mountains of casual fans who like Ganondorf because he's the most powerful but slowest character in the game. So much of Ultimate's cast has their neutral and advantage states built off being in the air already, we can have a couple of characters buck that trend.
So this is a fantastic point and I appreciate that you brought it up. I do want to clarify that I don't want Mac fundamentally being a grounded character to be walked back, I would just like it to be less extreme or for him to be given more options. But you make a good case here for why Little Mac is functionally a valuable character and why he's found a large casual playerbase. Probably the best argument I've seen against my own stance on the matter tbh.

That being said, there's a bit of a circular issue here right? Like you mentioned, it's the same deal as Ganondorf. You have characters who are individually fun to play and easy to pick up, but now dedicated fans of those characters externally are stuck with versions of them that don't do them full justice. The question from there becomes which audience will take priority, and historically it's clear that Smash does not want to alienate those who already enjoy the way they characters are. In which case a fan of Little Mac like myself might just wish he was done the "right way" from the beginning.

I have qualms with Little Mac as a Punch-Out fan first and a Smash player second, because I think Smash has too heavily leaned into aspects of his character that are not really accurate or important and now we might be in too deep to walk it back. Him being so exploitable makes Little Mac feel weak and the choice to give him some armor to just truck through an enemy attack feels antithetical to how you play Punch-Out. But my voice is one in a sea of many other people who don't care about that, maybe never even played Punch-Out, does not care about game balance and will pick Little Mac every time. So unless they take major effort to rework every character next time, and that's if Little Mac is even fortunate enough to return in such a drastic scenario, I don't have a lot of faith in things changing too much either.

And that's fine - I still have fun playing him, despite my concerns. I like your suggestions if they must stick with all the traits they've already attributed to him. I mostly just don't want Little Mac to be a joke anymore, so fine at this point if it means leaning even harder into what's already here. On top of your suggestions I REALLY think Little Mac should adopt Terry's attack out of dodge mechanic, that's literally fundamental to Punch-Out after all. I think there are tweaks they can make that would be beneficial to both opposing parties and I hope they'll give him that attention in the future.
 
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BritishGuy54

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I would personally expect a roster that retains around 40-50 of Ultimate’s cast, with room for new characters that aren’t pipe dream picks like Ultimate was. And more leaning towards modern and timeless characters instead of classic retro icons.
Even Smash 64 characters won’t be safe from cuts.

My veteran roster would look like this.
:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultrosalina::ultdk::ultdiddy::ultkrool:
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultsamus::ultridley::ultkirby::ultmetaknight::ultkingdedede::ultolimar:
:ultpikachu::ultcharizard::ultmewtwo::ultgreninja::ultwario::ultyoshi::ultinkling::ultshulk:(:ultpyra:/:ultmythra:)
:ultmarth::ultroy::ultrobin::ultbyleth::ultvillager::ultisabelle::ultfox::ultpit::ultrob:
:ultgnw::ultsonic::ultpacman::ultmegaman::ultryu::ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ulthero::ultkazuya:
(And Miis too)

I would also expect around 9 newcomers, bringing this roster to 55 characters (+Random too).
After revising this character roster, and some suggestions, I’ve decided to increase the roster size from 55, up to 59 (or 61 counting some as separate characters) Here is the revised roster, including 51/53 veterans.

:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultbowserjr:(1):ultyoshi::ultwario::ultdk::ultdiddy:
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultganondorf:(2):ultsamus::ultridley::ultkirby::ultmetaknight::ultkingdedede::ultfox:
:ultpikachu::ultmewtwo::ultcharizard::ultlucario::ultgreninja:(3):ultshulk::ultpyra:(4):ultgnw:
:ultmarth::ultike::ultrobin::ultbyleth:(5):ultpit::ultlittlemac::ultness::ultfalcon::ultrob:
:ultinkling::ultolimar::ultvillager::ultisabelle::ultsonic:(6):ultbayonetta::ultmegaman::ultryu:(7)
:ultpacman::ultkazuya:(8):ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ulthero::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter:[?]
(Pyra and Mythra, and Samus and ZSS are in the same slots)
[?] - Random

In terms of new (or even other veteran) characters, it’s impossible to see what Nintendo will choose, but I’ve decided to limit it to just 8 characters. Who they will be, I don’t know. Times change, and we may not get a new game for another 5 years or so.

Though my current leanings lean towards Paper Mario, Noah and/or Mio, a new character from FE and Pokémon respectively, Eggman, Chun-Li, and a Bandai Namco character.

I imagine this roster will come as a shock to many ‘hype’ oriented fans, especially after Ultimate opened the flood gates.

The biggest losers here in terms of returning veterans are either Melee or Ultimate. Melee had clones, and also some choices to ditch, while Ultimate’s swath of echo fighters and third-party picks who were cut.
 
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Louie G.

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After revising this character roster, and some suggestions, I’ve decided to increase the roster size from 55, up to 59 (or 61 counting some as separate characters) Here is the revised roster, including 51/53 veterans.
I'm pretty optimistic about the prospect of returning third parties next game but I have to question the decision to keep all three SE characters and none of the Microsoft or especially Konami characters? I'd like to keep Hero and Sephiroth around as much as the next guy, but they are demonstrably the most difficult and/or expensive to work with. I can respect wanting to condense the scope and not bring every single collaborator back but this feels a bit more ambitious than I'm expecting. Certainly at least Simon or Terry would be more practical to bring back than 2/3 of that lineup, it's too easy to just go back to the same guys who were already playing ball in Smash 4. It weirdly feels simultaneously too ambitious and too conservative.

I can't help but notice K. Rool got cut too, which I can understand to a degree but is jarring to see considering he was on the last one and this is a bigger roster than that. Would be disappointing but is probably not the biggest issue I have with it. Would also advocate for someone new from Animal Crossing and Splatoon seeing how you're leaving spaces open for contemporary characters and someone in the ballpark of Tom Nook or Octoling is pretty much guaranteed to continue to be relevant.
 
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Geno Boost

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What symbol do you guys want to represent new franchises? For Crash Bandicoot, I want it to be this C plastered above the N in one of Mind Over Mutant’s cutscenes (and I mean the C specifically, not both the C and the N at the same time)
View attachment 381763
for Microsoft entertainment pack i want this

for club penguin this

for Bejeweled this

for space invaders this

i can probably go on forever lol
 
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SPEN18

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After revising this character roster, and some suggestions, I’ve decided to increase the roster size from 55, up to 59 (or 61 counting some as separate characters) Here is the revised roster, including 51/53 veterans.

:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultbowserjr:(1):ultyoshi::ultwario::ultdk::ultdiddy:
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultganondorf:(2):ultsamus::ultridley::ultkirby::ultmetaknight::ultkingdedede::ultfox:
:ultpikachu::ultmewtwo::ultcharizard::ultlucario::ultgreninja:(3):ultshulk::ultpyra:(4):ultgnw:
:ultmarth::ultike::ultrobin::ultbyleth:(5):ultpit::ultlittlemac::ultness::ultfalcon::ultrob:
:ultinkling::ultolimar::ultvillager::ultisabelle::ultsonic:(6):ultbayonetta::ultmegaman::ultryu:(7)
:ultpacman::ultkazuya:(8):ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ulthero::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter:[?]
(Pyra and Mythra, and Samus and ZSS are in the same slots)
[?] - Random

In terms of new (or even other veteran) characters, it’s impossible to see what Nintendo will choose, but I’ve decided to limit it to just 8 characters. Who they will be, I don’t know. Times change, and we may not get a new game for another 5 years or so.

Though my current leanings lean towards Paper Mario, Noah and/or Mio, a new character from FE and Pokémon respectively, Eggman, Chun-Li, and a Bandai Namco character.

I imagine this roster will come as a shock to many ‘hype’ oriented fans, especially after Ultimate opened the flood gates.

The biggest losers here in terms of returning veterans are either Melee or Ultimate. Melee had clones, and also some choices to ditch, while Ultimate’s swath of echo fighters and third-party picks who were cut.
Just commenting on the first party vets

Would stink to lose KRool, Wii Fit, and Duck Hunt but overall I think this is an improvement over your last one. If you're not going to budge on the overall number of characters or the third parties, maybe you could sneak in WF or DH over, like, ROB maybe?
 

MasterCheef

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The Mio cometh
.
I think this would be much more thematically accurate
.

Noah‘s , side special = Thunderclap
Noah‘s , Neutral Special ; = Ministorm
Noah’s , down special = Elimination Beam
Noah’s , up special = Air Slash

Mio‘s , side special = Water Jet
Mio‘s , Neutral Special ; = Radiant Ring
Mio’s , down special = Shell guard
Mio’s , up special = Jaguar Slash

for those who don't know , Mio , is also a brand of flavored water
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
-Return of the Red Shell.
-Fusion Loader(to summon various Digimon, keeping in mind one would be playable).
-Dragonite(The item from the Mother series which turns a character temporarily into a Dragon. Could reuse something akin to Ridley's attacks in Smash for Wii U?)

I can't really think of 2 more at this time. Might edit it in if I think of more.

Yes, I'm aware one might seem silly with the AT's, but Digimon has a crapload of Monsters much like Pokemon does, so it's pretty easy to make quick attacks in concept. Not terribly feasible to add another summoning tool, though. Other things like a Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy summoning tool sound great, but the Summon Crystal thing is already on a stage, so it's less interesting at this point in the series.

Not counting this, I'd return all Pokeball Pokemon and AT's, but they wouldn't be summonable if you're playing as said character. I think each one is a fun and interesting AT/Pokeball along with being a playable character. No matter how silly the moves are~
 

Geno Boost

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My item choices would be
-Enderpearl (Minecraft): throwing it and land somewhere will cause you to teleport there
-Devil Axe (Fire Emblem): it cause 50 or 25 damage if you hit someone but if you miss you get 50 or 25 damage instead
-Bucket (Mario & Wario): throwing it on someone will cause the bucket to stick to someone head and reverse left and right controller
-Potato (Plants vs zombies): eating it once will heal 1 but you have to eat it 30 times to finish it
-Sheild Monitor (Sonic): breaking it will give you a sheild that can make you resist 1 hit before it breaks
-Sardine Can (Angry Birds): if you throw it and land somewhere mighty eagle will come down from sky deals a massive damage around that area after few seconds
 
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cashregister9

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
-Breidablik from Fire Emblem Heroes (A pokeball for Fire Emblem characters)
-The Rocket Launcher from Quake (Is a standard rocket launcher but you can rocket jump)
-Slurp Juice from Fortnite (Heals constantly until you take damage)
-Totem Of Undying from Minecraft (Immediately restores a stock when eliminated)
-Fizzy Bomb from Splatoon (A bomb that gets more powerful if you dash dance)
 
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Kirbeh

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
Going to do more than 5 for different options.

5 Nintendo Items

Summon Orbs (Fire Emblem Heroes) - An almost functionally identical reskin of the Pokéball item, but it summons characters from Fire Emblem instead. I know the Breidablik exists, but I thought it'd be more fitting to try and recreate the actual summoning process/animation from FEH.

Wyrmite (Dragalia Lost) - Ditto to the above. Another summoning item, but for Dragalia Lost characters. I personally never played it, but it's got a lot of cool/cute characters and I think it'd be a shame if it was just quietly buried and forgotten.

Crackler (Kirby) - Repeatedly fires small cannonballs in an arc. The Crackler itself can also be thrown at opponents. Fighters cannot perform other attacks or double jump while holding the Crackler.

Cracker Launcher (Super Smash Bros. Brawl) - Bring it back!

Furniture Leaf (Animal Crossing) - Throw the Leaf to spawn a random piece of furniture that becomes part of the stage. Some furniture will purely act as fixed walls/platforms (lampposts, dressers, wardrobes, etc.) Some can serve as hazards/interactable objects (chairs to knock over, exercise balls to knock around, a trampoline to jump on, etc.) Furniture can be attacked and destroyed after taking enough damage.

5 Third Party Items from repped series

Elemental Shields (Sonic the Hedgehog) - So on top of doing more than 5, this is also technically a 3 in one.
  • Flame Shield - Negates one attack and turns air dodging into an attack.
  • Aqua Shield - Negates one attack and boosts jump height.
  • Thunder Shield - Negates one attack and draws in other items.

Materia (Final Fantasy VII) - I considered going with a more general Final Fantasy item, but after thinking about, Materia are quite versatile, and with all our FF content already being from FF7 I think it works. Just like in FF7, there are multiple Materia types.
  • Magic - Randomly assigns a spell to replace the fighters neutral jab (kind of like when holding a beam sword but for spells.) Possible spells can range from the standard fire, blizzard and thunder to bizarre spells like Mini and Toad.
  • Support - Borrows the support name but is mostly comprised of passive buffs from the Complete category introduced in Remake.
  • Summon - Obligatory summoning item to squeeze in more character cameos. While some summons already show up on the Midgar stage there are plenty more still available. Shiva being a prime example, shame she was only a spirit in Ultimate.

Demon/Persona Compendium (SMT/Persona) - A summoning item like the Pokéball, but for demons from the Shin Megami Tensei/Persona series. Still surprised we didn't at least get a Jack Frost or Pixie spirit.

Smash Cards - Okay, this one is a big stretch, but I took the idea of using the cards from the SNK vs Capcom: Card Fighters series and turning it into yet another summoning item. The big difference for this one though is that they wouldn't be standard assist trophy style summons and would instead be MvC1 style assists. You call on them manually and you can use them multiple times, albeit with a cool down period between each use. Also, they wouldn't be limited to Capcom and SNK characters.

Accessories/Throwable Props (Tekken)

3 Third Party Items from unrepped series (it's 4AM as I type this can't be bothered to think of 2 more)

Spread Shot (Contra) - Pretty self-explanatory. Functions like it does in Contra.

Metal Slug (Metal Slug) - I know some Metal Slug supporters are proponents of having Marco and crew pilot the titular tank as fighters, but I thought it'd be really cool/fun if they could just spawn like any other item and be piloted by anyone.

Pike Ball (Shantae) - Summons pike balls that orbit around you, damaging opponents on contact.

1. Super Crown
2. Gradius Option
I second both of these. The latter because it's a really cool weapon, and the former just because.
 
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RouffWestie

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
Stomper Boot from Kirby RtDL: gives you increased max jump height and auto-footstools players you stomp, dealing 10-12% damage. It also bounces of projectiles like in RtDL. Strong enough attacks will knock you out of it, and you can press Z to jump out of it

Nintendo's Ultra Hand toy: long range grappling item

Fire Shied from Sonic 3: let's you perform a similar midair attack and causes fire based attacks or hazards to have no effect on you

Jet Run Badge from Mario Wonder: you can't stop running but your speed is increased and you do that same thing where you briefly run midair off ledges

Piranha Plant Orb from Mario Party: basically a mine but instead of exploding the victim is eaten by a Piranha Plant and takes constant damage until they are spit out
 

CapitaineCrash

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According to datamine of the demo, the Another code recollection is developped by Arc system works. https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/18j4iu8
This is interesting because this is the first time that Nintendo and Arc system are collaborating, and we know that Smash bros can choose character based on developers relationship with Nintendo so I feel like this is a great boost to Arc sys getting something in the next Smash.
 

Ivander

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
  1. Breidablik - A Gun-like item that functions like a Pokeball. It shoots out a group of 5 Summoning Orbs that summon a random Fire Emblem character from the FE series.
  2. Dragon Gun - A Robo Gun Part from Custom Robo that resembles a Dragon head. It shoots out a giant dragon head(followed by a large stream of energy) that gradually homes in on a player. When the gun is shot, it has a lot of recoil that prevents the player from moving for a bit after firing the gun. The damage dealt and how quickly it homes in depends on the distance it has travelled, where it deals much more damage at close range, but cannot home in easily on closer foes, while it deals less damage at a large distance, but homes in more easily on foes that were at a further distance.
    It normally has 6 shots before running out, but in rare moments, you may find an illegal version of the Dragon Gun called the Wyrm Gun. It has the same recoil and damage, but instead of one dragon head, it will shoot out 5 dragon heads in a row, making it powerful against large groups.
  3. Hydra(ARMS) - An ARMS weapon that gives the player an attack similar to Min-Min's Dragon ARMS attack When the player attacks with it, it goes a far distance and by holding the firing button down, it fires a row of 3 missiles with each one firing more vertically.
  4. Barrel Cannon - Bringing back the Barrel Cannon from Melee.
  5. Excalibur - From Final Fantasy, a large sword that deals moderate damage against foes when swung and thrown. But every once in a while, an Excalibur Sword you pick up might actually be Excalipoor, a sword that only deals 1 damage when hitting foes with it, but does a ton of damage when it hits a foe from being thrown, but immediately disappears afterwards.
Edit: Sorry about that, when I was trying to make a paragraph during typing down the Dragon Gun, I accidentally held the CTRL button instead of Shift button and accidentally posted the message before I finished.
 
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Opossum

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
Breidablik - Summoning item specifically for Fire Emblem; works by shooting the summon forward.

Item Finder/Dowsing Machine - Acts as a sort of magnetic field that brings nearby items closer to you while you have it equipped.

V-Ball - A drone appears above a random player and drops a big, explosive bomb-ball. If a player attacks it, it will fly up in an arc and descend. The other players can hit it back, and so on and so forth. It explodes if it hits the ground.

Follow-Up Ring - An item that, when equipped, greatly reduces the end lag of moves, allowing for some moves to be directly cancelled into others after they're used.

Sea Salt Ice Cream - A normal food item in one on one fights or free for alls. However, in team battles they become the strongest healing item in the game, and will heal both you and your partner.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Life sword (Megaman) split up into three chunks just like the dragoon and the daybreak cannon, a small sword a wide sword and a long sword, the three parts can be used separately as weak blade items, but when put together it does massive damage.

Emblem ring (Fire emblem engage) Summons other Fire emblem characters like Pokeballs or assist trophies

Staminum (Yakuza) A recovery item that also increases your final smash meter if you have that mode turned on.
 

fogbadge

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well if we're talking items i got some ideas as well

Splatbrella - a weapon type from splatoon that i think would translate very well. tapping the button would make it fire like any other gun. but holding the button would open the brella that will act as a shield. if it's held long enough the brella goes flying off.

Flower Pot - from urban champion. a basic throwing item. does more damage when thrown downwards.

Power/Magic/Defence Boosts - from kingdom hearts. each gives a temporary boost to one of three things. power physical attacks. magic projectiles. defence, err defence.

Chameleon - from rhythm paradise. while holding it, it will extend out its tongue to attack.

Ultra Bitter Spray - from pikmin. throw it to turn people to stone
 

Louie G.

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This was an idea for a new item I was toying around with in another thread, it'd be pretty resource heavy but I thought it was a fun thing to think about.

Rambi Crate



So consider this sort of a new spin on Assist Trophies, a more hands on approach. If you've played DKC you know how it works... you break the crate open, Rambi comes out and you can ride him around. This works pretty much the same way, except I'd like to extend the idea toward various other mountable characters across other Smash series. Each has one or two attacks you can perform alongside unique properties. I'll map a few ideas out so we get the picture.

Rambi (DK) - Has his signature horn swing, can build up momentum to a remarkably fast speed. Short jumps.
Oatchi (Pikmin) - Can ram forward a significant distance the longer you hold A or B before releasing.
Wheelie (Kirby) - Hold down A or B for acceleration, ramming into opponents does minor knockback but hitting them with a turn can KO.
Opa Opa (Fantasy Zone) - Granted free flight and can shoot projectiles forward.
Worst comes to worst it could literally just be Rambi or be limited to specifically the DKC animal buddies.
 
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Wonder Smash

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Super Crown is Nintendo
That's a...strange reply. Why did you say that?

According to datamine of the demo, the Another code recollection is developped by Arc system works. https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/18j4iu8
This is interesting because this is the first time that Nintendo and Arc system are collaborating, and we know that Smash bros can choose character based on developers relationship with Nintendo so I feel like this is a great boost to Arc sys getting something in the next Smash.
I hope that's the case.
 
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Laniv

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If you had to add 5 more items to smash what will you choose?
Gonna revive the old ideas I had:

Energy Tank (Mega Man): Fully heals whoever picks it up, but just like the Special Flag, they're stuck holding it up. If the user is attacked, they drop it and it disappears.

Prayer Ring (Fire Emblem): Slowly heals the user. If the user is over 100%, they will take reduced damage (0.7x).

Ultra-Bitter Spray (Pikmin): Sprays a horribly bitter solution that damages victims and turns them to stone.

Phoenix Down (Final Fantasy): Hovers above whoever picks it up. If someone is KO'd while in possession of a Phoenix Down they will not lose a stock/have a point deducted/lose any coins. After 7 seconds, it will disappear and heal the user for 50%.

NES Zapper: The one-hit KO power of a Home-Run Bat, now in the form of a shooting item! ...You only get three shots, so make them count! Whoever uses this will have a lengthy start-up animation where they dramatically pump the gun.

Macho Brace (Pokémon): Boosts the holder's attack power, but lowers speed.
And now, here's some new ones!

Pegasus Boots (Legend of Zelda): Put on these boots to get a small boost in speed. You can also damage opponents by running into them.

Ice Flower (Super Mario): The icy counterpart to the Fire Flower. It has a chance to freeze at higher percentages.

M9 Tranquilizer Pistol (Metal Gear Solid): This mysterious firearm fire almost-invisible shots to make foes it hits fall asleep. Only three shots are available.

Sea Salt Ice Cream - A normal food item in one on one fights or free for alls. However, in team battles they become the strongest healing item in the game, and will heal both you and your partner.
I think this is my favorite idea so far
 
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