Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

Just them being a little over 30 being an excuse to cut is beyond horrible. Ivy only gets to stay in cause "she looks younger" is lame. It's not like Taki even would've changed that much, ya know? Not that it's a legitimate excuse even if they turned more elderly. If that's your excuse, Misturugi should be cut too, as should many other male characters. It's both or nothing. Ugh.

The new characters were cool, at least. But still. And yeah, they had so many fun potential fighter options. Without even going to into the moveset clones(SCIII was the king of that, won't lie. II still had some, but not to the same degree. Justified in-story for III, at least, since they needed quick character. Usually it's more like how Mortal Kombat Deception did it, where generic Lizardmen would exist in the same way Tarkatan do. Giving every member a different moveset is much more difficult. Giving them slight fight equipment however is pretty easy and makes it a bit more fun. I don't think they did in IV, though?). Speaking of, some of the equipment ideas in IV were cool, till it got to the battle stripping part. ._.;

IV did actually have a number of moveset clones, but rather than being in universe characters they hired a bunch of guest artists to make a bunch of unrelated oc designs. Your mileage may vary on how well you think they fit in, but this also the same game where we had Darth Vader as a guest.

Spoiler

In order; Angol Fear (who I think did eventually get used in Sgt. Frog), Ashlotte, Kamikirimusi, Shura and Scheherazade

 

[Gengar84]

I'm glad to hear that then! I'm happy Impa has earnest supporters, I know a couple others off the top of my head, I just believe a lot of speculation surrounding her has stemmed from a simple "who's next" and an aversion to touching the dreaded one-shot Zelda characters who Smash has neglected over the years. Which is often kind of lame but in all fairness, I understand the hesitation given how conservative Zelda's roster has been up to this point. What a strange series to speculate about, I wonder how different it would be if we got Ghirahim or Midna back in Smash 4.

My bottom line on the matter though is that going down the hierarchy of who's important in the series hits a bit of a dead end at a certain point, and I think Zelda falls off substantially after the Triforce trio where saying something like "Impa is the next most important" is practically meaningless. Certainly not as clear as like... Dixie Kong, or Tom Nook for their respective series.

All that said, the next Zelda character should obviously be Beedle. I'm only half kidding.

To be completely honest, I only really became an Impa fan for Hyrule Warriors specifically. I never put a ton of thought into the character before or since. I did also like her in Skyward Sword and she shared a lot of design elements with her appearance in Hyrule Warriors. I still like her well enough outside of just Hyrule Warriors but probably not to the level of calling myself a true supporter. Still, she’s an important part of the Zelda series and she makes a lot of sense to make it into Smash regardless of whether they go with her Hyrule Warriors design.

 

[Oracle Link]

Yeah, I hope you’re right about that. I’m not really looking forward to any cuts and I really want to keep Sheik and my other favorites. I agree about Impa being very different than Sheik so they don’t really make much sense as echoes. The one game where both were playable, Impa had two completely unique movesets that were nothing like Sheik’s. Impa’s latest playable appearance in AoC, she had another entirely new moveset that didn’t really share anything with Sheik in Smash.

The main issue is just sheik did only throw deku nuts in zelda all of her moves are made up?
Atleast if she has one of the sheikah wepons from BOTW/ TOTK that would make her feel more canon!
Also the harp i guess!

 

[Gengar84]

The main issue is just sheik did only throw deku nuts in zelda all of her moves are made up?
Atleast if she has one of the sheikah wepons from BOTW/ TOTK that would make her feel more canon!
Also the harp i guess!

Her moveset in Hyrule Warriors was great and felt a bit more true to character than her Smash moveset. Sheik’s moveset isn’t really what I like most about her anyways. I just always thought she had a really cool design and the concept that she was Zelda in disguise was fun.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

IV did actually have a number of moveset clones, but rather than being in universe characters they hired a bunch of guest artists to make a bunch of unrelated oc designs. Your mileage may vary on how well you think they fit in, but this also the same game where we had Darth Vader as a guest.

Spoiler

View attachment 380036View attachment 380037View attachment 380038View attachment 380039View attachment 380040
In order; Angol Fear (who I think did eventually get used in Sgt. Frog), Ashlotte, Kamikirimusi, Shura and Scheherazade

Oh, I remember them well. What I mean is that III felt rather excessive on them. IV had a pretty tiny amount, but they were also not done as well(no story reasons), though nicer looking by proxy of a stronger 3D graphics system.

I forget which one I used the most, I think it was the Astaroth clone? I like to play as him, so that'd make sense. Nightmare/Siegfried I also like to use the most.

But yeah, I don't think breaking equipment was a bad concept, but I do think stripping them to their underwear is completely stupid(not inherently as a concept, it just didn't fit Soul Calibur. I don't have any issues with those kind of games in general. It just didn't fit well for SC itself. It came out of nowhere). I actually found the Star Wars guests less dumb(if only cause at least they're specialized weapon users, and had fun movesets).

 

[Geno Boost]

Original graphics, so that Smash fans from every generation can feel the pain of having their character randomly eaten by a pixelated monster.

i would prefer for Yeti to finally have official 3d model of him

 

[Ivander]

V was definitely the Soul Calibur game of all time...

The roster issues really are a shame because I really liked some of the newcomers in that game like Zwei and Viola. And with this conversation being about Zelda, I'm only now seeing the cool potential parallel to HW Impa that they could've gone with for Taki. Lots of missed opportunities there.

looks at Namco who messed over the developers Namco practically had no interest and patience for that game and almost did the same for VI had it not been for the director really begging them to take it seriously. That's mainly the reason why we got alot of clones and no Bangoo or Cassandra.

Because as much as the game was flawed, the gameplay was much more better and playable compared to Soulcalibur IV, which had pretty much the tripping system from Smash Bros. Brawl with insta-kills added. Imagine if frickin' tripping in Brawl meant a guaranteed life lost by another player simply tapping the B button when the opponent trips. That's the Armor Break/Critical Finish system in a nutshell.

Edit: Not to mention the game was much slower frame-wise like Brawl, when quite a bunch of games did the whole slow frame data for casual players. Fighting felt so very slow in that game aside from a couple characters.

 

[Kirbeh]

looks at Namco who messed over the developers Namco practically had no interest and patience for that game and almost did the same for VI had it not been for the director really begging them to take it seriously. That's mainly the reason why we got alot of clones and no Bangoo or Cassandra.

Because as much as the game was flawed, the gameplay was much more better and playable compared to Soulcalibur IV, which had pretty much the tripping system from Smash Bros. Brawl with insta-kills added. Imagine if frickin' tripping in Brawl meant a guaranteed life lost by another player simply tapping the B button when the opponent trips. That's the Armor Break/Critical Finish system in a nutshell.

Yeah, it's really disappointing how readily Namco tries to kill Soul Calibur just because it doesn't do Tekken numbers. Between the two I vastly prefer SC, but it never seems to get enough traction for Namco to support it. I'm glad VI lasted as long as it did, but I'm still worried about the series' future. Just another for the list of "fighting game series I hope continue someday" alongside DOA, Darkstalkers, MvC, and KI.

 

[fogbadge]

I've been wanting to use Impa since her fun redesign in the Oracle games. Where she felt like an actual fighter and wasn't just basically the same as Sheik. HW also went into having her have more muscles, but what makes this design favorable for me is that she's a strong fighter while also being a much older person. A big issue is how a lot of games just love to only have younger women and once they hit a certain age clearly they aren't battle capable(which is a load of crap). Soul Calibur cut characters for this reason alone, and it drives me up the wall. That's why I appreciate other things like Fat Princess being playable in a game. I like not just diversity, but the fact that it's not holding back on all kinds of fun and unique choices.

Also, the lack of heavyset playable female characters in games is atrocious. Not even just fighting ones. It's part of what really made me appreciate her design. While said version of Impa doesn't do heavily that much, they still present her as reasonable badass through various artwork and such. Her lifting a cow is just a meme, but her showing off her muscle is an official thing. In fact, it's the first time she has clearly defined muscles, not Hyrule Warriors.

Midna and Skull Kid never spoke out to me to anywhere the same degree. Not that I don't appreciate their characters either(MM and LA are my two favorite games in the series, after all!), though Tingle easily trumps Skull Kid. I like how he's an expressive person and himself(WW version, who mind you is a different person, was... not so great. Hell, he's one of the most awful characters in that game morals-wise. The only other character to come close otherwise is freaking Ganondorf, and he at least notes some altruistic goals at one point, which says something too). Anyway, the Zelda cast is rich with tons of fun characters. I also want to see classic Pig Ganon somewhere(the original ALTTP design has never shown up in a single Smash game, surprisingly. Though it's worth noting Impa took a while to show up too. I'm glad other Ganons show up along with Ganondorfs, but still).

that's why i keep saying they should put in old impa

also i'd love to talk soul calibur if that's where we're heading

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, it's really disappointing how readily Namco tries to kill Soul Calibur just because it doesn't do Tekken numbers. Between the two I vastly prefer SC, but it never seems to get enough traction for Namco to support it. I'm glad VI lasted as long as it did, but I'm still worried about the series' future. Just another for the list of "fighting game series I hope continue someday" alongside DOA, Darkstalkers, MvC, and KI.

There's a part of me that does too, but there's also a part of me that doesn't care what happens. Though part of that is because of some of Soulcalibur VI's treatment/down kicking towards Soulcalibur V, especially with that Cassandra story, with the amount of "Scrappy Doo" attitude toward Patroklos, despite him being one of the more entertaining characters(and at the same time, quite historically accurate) and the SCV character with the most potential wasted.

I just really dislike it in general when official content tries to erase characters or previous games/content/etc rather than fix them. Even when it comes to characters or stuff I hate, I much rather they'd fix them or make them better instead of straight out trying to make them disappear or treating them lower than dirt.

 

[Gengar84]

that's why i keep saying they should put in old impa

also i'd love to talk soul calibur if that's where we're heading

I’d love a Soul Calibur character in Smash. My personal favorite is Astaroth but I don’t think he has much a chance. Nightmare is awesome too though and a lot more likely.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It was the Age of Calamity version of Impa that really put her over the top for me as a selection. While stuff like the original Hyrule Warriors and her overall importance to the series had me thinking she made sense, the moveset young Impa had in AoC was incredibly fun that it went from a preference to a full blown wish. Even as varied as the BoTW version of Link is (not even getting into what he could utilize from that game's sequel) I honestly would prefer Impa be that game's representation more than anything else.

 

[fogbadge]

I’d love a Soul Calibur character in Smash. My personal favorite is Astaroth but I don’t think he has much a chance. Nightmare is awesome too though and a lot more likely.

my favourite is kilik but I’d take nightmare. never had a chance to latest one

 

[Kirbeh]

There's a part of me that does too, but there's also a part of me that doesn't care what happens. Though part of that is because of some of Soulcalibur VI's treatment/down kicking towards Soulcalibur V, especially with that Cassandra story, with the amount of "Scrappy Doo" attitude toward Patroklos, despite him being one of the more entertaining characters(and at the same time, quite historically accurate) and the SCV character with the most potential wasted.

I just really dislike it in general when official content tries to erase characters or previous games/content/etc rather than fix them. Even when it comes to characters or stuff I hate, I much rather they'd fix them or make them better instead of straight out trying to make them disappear or treating them lower than dirt.

I actually didn't mind the idea of passing the torch or having new characters fill in for certain archetypes. It made V sort of like the SFIII: New Generation of Soul Calibur. Well, except for the part where people eventually came around and laud Third Strike as one of the greats.

Gameplay wise I did mostly like the siblings (I was a Pyrrha main), but it was understandable that most were less than pleased when so many staples were cut. Didn't help that the given reason for Taki and the Alexandra sisters was that they were too old.

I was fine with VI being a reboot so the series could try to regain its bearings, but should we actually get more games down the line I hope they'll revisit the newcomer cast of V. Just don't rush the story this time. Though again that was Namco's fault for forcing the dev team to push the game out before it was ready.

 

[Gengar84]

my favourite is kilik but I’d take nightmare. never had a chance to latest one

Me neither. I bought all of them besides the most recent entry. It’s hard to keep up with games as I get older. I loved Soul Calibur 2 because it had Link but Soul Calibur 3 had my favorite side game with that board style adventure mode.

 

[fogbadge]

Me neither. I bought all of them besides the most recent entry. It’s hard to keep up with games as I get older. I loved Soul Calibur 2 because it had Link but Soul Calibur 3 had my favorite side game with that board style adventure mode.

yeah 2 was how I got into the series thanks to link and I loved 3

 

[Arcanir]

I mean...that is literally Pac-Man's Final Smash.

Pac-Man's Final Smash can't instakill you, the Yeti probably would.

 

[SPEN18]

I think it's definitely time to ditch the focus on Triforce reps. And really it has been for a while. I mean, in Melee and Brawl it was a little more justifiable with the smaller number of characters both per-series and overall, but seeing the way other series and the roster itself have grown since then, with non-protag or one-off characters clearly being eligible, it just doesn't make sense anymore to be that restrictive with one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.

 

[Ivander]

Gameplay wise I did mostly like the siblings (I was a Pyrrha main), but it was understandable that most were less than pleased when so many staples were cut. Didn't help that the given reason for Taki and the Alexandra sisters was that they were too old.

I don't think the reason was for the Alexandra sisters, as Sophitia died saving Pyrrha(when Soul Edge was defeated by Siegfried, Pyrrha was dying until Sophitia took out the SE shard near her heart from her encounter with Cervantes to put into Pyrrha to save her life) and they were planning on putting in Cassandra, as according to a Making of Soulcalibur V book or something like that, she and Bangoo were planned and would've gotten in had they been given a couple more months.

Still, the reason is dumb, although I put the blame more on gender standards at the time and having to appeal to the target demographic, which is something that can't be avoided easily when you have to also appeal to the higher-ups, investors and whatnot.

 

[Kirbeh]

I don't think the reason was for the Alexandra sisters, as Sophitia died saving Pyrrha(when Soul Edge was defeated by Siegfried, Pyrrha was dying until Sophitia took out the SE shard near her heart from her encounter with Cervantes to put into Pyrrha to save her life) and they were planning on putting in Cassandra, as according to a Making of Soulcalibur V book or something like that, she and Bangoo were planned and would've gotten in had they been given a couple more months.

Still, the reason is dumb, although I put the blame more on gender standards at the time and having to appeal to the target demographic, which is something that can't be avoided easily when you have to also appeal to the higher-ups, investors and whatnot.

It's been a while, so I did forget that Sophitia was dead in V, hence Elysium manipulating Patroklos by taking her appearance.

I didn't know that Cassadra was supposed have gotten in all along. Same goes for Bangoo. The development of V really was a mess, wasn't it?

 

[Geno Boost]

I think it's definitely time to ditch the focus on Triforce reps. And really it has been for a while. I mean, in Melee and Brawl it was a little more justifiable with the smaller number of characters both per-series and overall, but seeing the way other series and the roster itself have grown since then, with non-protag or one-off characters clearly being eligible, it just doesn't make sense anymore to be that restrictive with one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.

ngl i still dont get how did fire emblem get more reps than zelda

 

[Gengar84]

ngl i still dont get how did fire emblem get more reps than zelda

I think the simplest explanation for that is that Fire Emblem is easier to make variant characters for (like echoes and semiclones) than Zelda. Besides the three Links in Smash, the Zelda characters are all pretty unique so it would be harder to make echoes from the series that made sense. I think the biggest reason for Fire Emblem’s roster size is the ease of variant characters combined with “Everyone is here”.

 

[Ivander]

It's been a while, so I did forget that Sophitia was dead in V, hence Elysium manipulating Patroklos by taking her appearance.

I didn't know that Cassadra was supposed have gotten in all along. Same goes for Bangoo. The development of V really was a mess, wasn't it?

Yeah, besides some of the plans for the game, like how there was to be more story in the game besides being focused on Patroklos and Pyrrha, before they found out they didn't have the manpower to do all of the story they planned, it also gave alot more background on the characters, like Patroklos meeting Setsuna before the events of the game, Xiba being confirmed to be Kilik and Xianghua's child, Cassandra getting stuck in the Astral Chaos, which was acknowledged in SCVI, etc.

 

[Louie G.]

ngl i still dont get how did fire emblem get more reps than zelda

Some version of Link is always the protagonist, and Fire Emblem is always changing protagonists. It's that simple - if we want Zelda to follow in Fire Emblem's footsteps, I would brace yourself for three more iterations of Link.

This isn't an excuse for Zelda being stuck the way it is mind you, these are just two very different series in the way they handle their main cast. The Link / Zelda / Ganondorf trifecta is all you need to cover the jist of the entire series. Fire Emblem is always in need of some sort of update and well, I don't think enough people acknowledge that EVERYONE WAS HERE and there wasn't much opportunity to "trim the fat" so to speak.

It's funny though, as a side note. We often discuss one-shot Zelda characters and their viability but Sheik has kind of cheated her way onto the roster all the same. I'm not the biggest on Sheik but I do appreciate her role as a "flavor" pick. Without the initial transformation gimmick she probably wouldn't stand much of a chance, but by proxy she's stumbled her way into being a standalone character and a mainstay at that. And the Zelda roster is better off for it.

 

[Sucumbio]

Some version of Link is always the protagonist, and Fire Emblem is always changing protagonists. It's that simple - if we want Zelda to follow in Fire Emblem's footsteps, I would brace yourself for three more iterations of Link.

This isn't an excuse for Zelda being stuck the way it is mind you, these are just two very different series in the way they handle their main cast. The Link / Zelda / Ganondorf trifecta is all you need to cover the jist of the entire series. Fire Emblem is always in need of some sort of update and well, I don't think enough people acknowledge that EVERYONE WAS HERE and there wasn't much opportunity to "trim the fat" so to speak.

It's funny though, as a side note. We often discuss one-shot Zelda characters and their viability but Sheik has kind of cheated her way onto the roster all the same. I'm not the biggest on Sheik but I do appreciate her role as a "flavor" pick. Without the initial transformation gimmick she probably wouldn't stand much of a chance, but by proxy she's stumbled her way into being a standalone character and a mainstay at that. And the Zelda roster is better off for it.

Shiek was my wife's main in melee both because she's broken but also her favorite character in OoT. I don't know what to call her myself in terms of roster type other than "ninja" like Scorpion, Yoshimitsu, Kage, Jago, ummm prolly missing a bunch (wait does SF have one?)... I suppose her inclusion makes less sense than it did in Melee and maybe Brawl but once they abandoned the morph thing they should have maybe taken the opportunity to try a different character, even if way, it was still another Zelda like Tetra. I wouldn't have expected Sheik to be cut in favor of a side character tho, side characters usually end up AT fodder. Which is why I hope Alucard is promoted cause at least he has his own game.

 

[Louie G.]

once they abandoned the morph thing they should have maybe taken the opportunity to try a different character, even if way, it was still another Zelda like Tetra

Tetra may very well be my most wanted Zelda character, or at least she was at some point. I kinda gave up that prospect realizing it was better to shift focus toward someone outside of the Triforce but the idea of another "toon" character was pretty exciting to me and I'd love a moveset that doubles down on the whole pirate thing. I suppose we got that with K. Rool to a minor extent - but in another world I think Tetra would have been a great addition.

 

[Sucumbio]

Tetra may very well be my most wanted Zelda character, or at least she was at some point. I kinda gave up that prospect realizing it was better to shift focus toward someone outside of the Triforce but the idea of another "toon" character was pretty exciting to me and I'd love a moveset that doubles down on the whole pirate thing. I suppose we got that with K. Rool to a minor extent - but in another world I think Tetra would have been a great addition.

Yep. And thus the intricacy of game design is revealed as a facade! Nah not really.. I know it's an ask but surely they could have learned something.. oh wait FE hahaha .

 

[Hadokeyblade]

ngl i still dont get how did fire emblem get more reps than zelda

Zelda has a small selection of characters who make sense for smash, and we already have all 3 of them.

Fire emblem gets new characters in every new game, its like wondering why Pokemon keeps getting new characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If we want to get another Zelda character, the fans need to rally. We need to get them in through popularity. But not just any popularity, focused popularity. Zelda has a glut of choices and those choices cannibalize each other's fanbase. Zelda fans need to take a page from the K. Rool, Ridley and Mewtwo fans. Don't support lots of characters casually. Hard focus on one or two at a time to make demand known.

The most popular choices are Skull Kid and Midna, with Impa as a distant third. Zelda fans need to push those characters hard. It's the only way I think we'll ever get one.

 

[Geno Boost]

Zelda has a small selection of characters who make sense for smash, and we already have all 3 of them.

Fire emblem gets new characters in every new game, its like wondering why Pokemon keeps getting new characters.

tingle got his own series of games and skull kid is very iconic even and impa has always been present and when zelda series gets new game or remake it still doesn't get new character since brawl
the difference between pokemon and fire emblem is like comparing an ant to an elephant both mario and pokemon had the biggest gaming audience out there and fire emblem is nowhere near that but zelda is near as big as Pokémon and Mario
hyrule warrior has shown the amount of characters zelda series has for more fighters yet it doesn't get any in smash

 

[Ivander]

Tetra may very well be my most wanted Zelda character, or at least she was at some point. I kinda gave up that prospect realizing it was better to shift focus toward someone outside of the Triforce but the idea of another "toon" character was pretty exciting to me and I'd love a moveset that doubles down on the whole pirate thing. I suppose we got that with K. Rool to a minor extent - but in another world I think Tetra would have been a great addition.

I'm still all for Tetra. We have Princess Zelda and we have Ninja Zelda, so all we need now is Pirate Zelda.

That aside, I still love Tetra and while doing a runthrough of some older games I have but never played, I recently got to play Spirit Tracks and I love Zelda in that game so much, so it's like, I'm all for getting a rep outside of the Triad, but at the same time, I'm still all for Tetra and Toon Zelda getting in. With talk of alternate versions, man I wish Smash Bros. had alternate costumes for non-Mii characters.

 

[Gengar84]

Zelda has a small selection of characters who make sense for smash, and we already have all 3 of them.

Fire emblem gets new characters in every new game, its like wondering why Pokemon keeps getting new characters.

I don’t see any reason we can’t get the popular one offs in Smash. A lot of Smash fans still really like these characters even though they only appeared once. Many of the most popular characters were playable in either Hyrule Warriors or Age of Calamity so they technically aren’t even one offs anymore. It never made any sense to me to gatekeep these characters just because they don’t appear in every game.

 

[fogbadge]

Zelda is sitting on a treasure trove of characters and potential. The fact that it’s so often overlooked is quite disappointing. We can come up with what ever reason we want to explain why this happens but we know sakurai doesn’t think like that

 

[Arcanir]

It would be nice if we could get more one-off characters like Sheik. It does make sense to lean more on recurring characters since Smash can only add so much, but there's still a number of characters that despite only appearing once still leave a strong impression with their fanbases. The fact that we still have fans asking for characters like Midna who only appeared in TP (and HW) shows just how much she stuck with Zelda fans as a whole, and for many they would be receptive to having her and characters like her on the roster.

 

[Gengar84]

Has anyone else seen the DLC trailers for Tales of Arise - Beyond the Dawn? I’ve brought up a few times that I’d really love to see either Velvet Crowe or an Alphen Shionne tag duo in Smash.

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I know the popular speculation is either Lloyd Irving from Tales of Symphonia or Yuri Lowell from Tales of Vesperia. Yuri was a great protagonist but I’d personally rather have either Velvet or Alphen/Shionne if I could only have one Tales rep. I’ve never been too particularly fond of Lloyd as a character even though I loved Symphonia and his game is what got me into the series.

Do you think this DLC helps Alphen and Shionne’s chances for Smash? I think the fact that the game has some renewed relevance can’t hurt. Without it, I feared that the characters would already be old news by the time the next Smash is announced. If we get a Smash announcement in the next year or two, I feel like they may still have a decent chance.

 

[Kirbeh]

Since Zelda is still the current topic, I would like to briefly talk about .

So, copy/pasting from another thread:

Would you be opposed to Ganondorf being a stance change character?

The stance change isn't a new idea in the slightest, but I have a particular way of going about it.

Ganodorf's bruiser moveset is restored with maybe one or two new things here or there, but for the most part he's still got the same specials, he's got the high kick up smash back, etc.

However, he'll start the match with a sword (or without, if you toggle it on the CSS.) Sword Ganon has different moves entirely (and some altered stats like lower speed to balance out the increased range), with the crux here being the side special. For said special, he throws the sword as a projectile a good distance forward where it then gets lodged into the ground standing mostly upright.

Now unarmed, he switches to his old bruiser fighting style. To pick up the sword and switch back, you can either stand next to it and hit A like you would any other item. Or you can grab it while lunging forward with Flame Choke. If you do the latter, he'll perform a revised, armed version of Gerudo Dragon, switching stances while attacking in one maneuver.

This gives both camps their Ganon while giving them the option to either ignore the other or incorporate it into their gameplan. And as a little extra nod; if you choose to start the battle without the sword and want to use it after the fact, his old taunt of pulling out the sword is restored as well, except the sword will now stay out until you either taunt again or throw it with side special.

And yes, this was inspired by the Twilight Princess Darknuts.

I actually have something similar in mind for Impa as a way for incorporating her kodachi, naginata, and giant blade from all her Warriors appearances. It does use her Age of Calamity design specifically to fall in line with the multiple weapon types being introduced in BotW, but this way we can have some warriors content by incorporating it into BotW/TotK weapon types. So kodachi is your 1-handed weapon, naginata for the spear, and giant blade for the two-handed (but she'd still use it one handed for some stuff.)

Plus, you can also add Paya as an alt. or fudge the heights a little and add HW Impa as a costume if they don't forget about the Warriors games next time around.

 

[Gengar84]

Since Zelda is still the current topic, I would like to briefly talk about .

So, copy/pasting from another thread:

Would you be opposed to Ganondorf being a stance change character?

The stance change isn't a new idea in the slightest, but I have a particular way of going about it.

Ganodorf's bruiser moveset is restored with maybe one or two new things here or there, but for the most part he's still got the same specials, he's got the high kick up smash back, etc.

However, he'll start the match with a sword (or without, if you toggle it on the CSS.) Sword Ganon has different moves entirely (and some altered stats like lower speed to balance out the increased range), with the crux here being the side special. For said special, he throws the sword as a projectile a good distance forward where it then gets lodged into the ground standing mostly upright.

Now unarmed, he switches to his old bruiser fighting style. To pick up the sword and switch back, you can either stand next to it and hit A like you would any other item. Or you can grab it while lunging forward with Flame Choke. If you do the latter, he'll perform a revised, armed version of Gerudo Dragon, switching stances while attacking in one maneuver.

This gives both camps their Ganon while giving them the option to either ignore the other or incorporate it into their gameplan. And as a little extra nod; if you choose to start the battle without the sword and want to use it after the fact, his old taunt of pulling out the sword is restored as well, except the sword will now stay out until you either taunt again or throw it with side special.

And yes, this was inspired by the Twilight Princess Darknuts.
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I actually have something similar in mind for Impa as a way for incorporating her kodachi, naginata, and giant blade from all her Warriors appearances. It does use her Age of Calamity design specifically to fall in line with the multiple weapon types being introduced in BotW, but this way we can have some warriors content by incorporating it into BotW/TotK weapon types. So kodachi is your 1-handed weapon, naginata for the spear, and giant blade for the two-handed (but she'd still use it one handed for some stuff.)

Plus, you can also add Paya as an alt. or fudge the heights a little and add HW Impa as a costume if they don't forget about the Warriors games next time around.

I’m always happy to see more options in a fighter. The only potential issue with a stance character is that they are essentially taking the same amount of work as a transform duo but you’re only getting one character instead of two. For characters I personally like such as Ganondorf, I’d be happy to see something like this if they decided to go that direction. I still have fun with his current moveset but I’d love to see something a little closer to his Zelda boss fights. I think my ideal Ganondorf moveset is mostly a fusion of his boss fight in Ocarina of Time with other attacks from his pig forms in the older games. I wrote out a basic moveset idea for this a long time ago but I’m not sure where it is.

Edit: I found the basic idea I was referring to. I only made the specials for this one but I’ll share it again here anyways since it’s topical.

Spoiler

I enjoy playing Ganondorf as he is and I’ve mained him since Melee but I wouldn’t mind seeing him get a complete overhaul to his moveset to match his canon abilities. I’d personally love to see him pull from the entire history of the character including pig Ganon. Giving him the trident from his pig form and pulling moves from older games like the Fire bats and trident toss as well as others like Ganondorf’s Dead Man’s Volley from OoT could be fun. I also think he should float for his running animation like Cloud and Sephiroth and a few other animations.

Here’s a rough idea of what I was thinking for his specials:

Neutral special - Dead Man’s Volley - This is a chargeable projectile but the charge can’t be stored. If he charges on the ground, he floats upwards as he charges it and shoots it diagonally downwards. In the air, it can’t charge but still shoots diagonally downwards. Uncharged on the ground, he shoots the blast straight forward.

Forward special: Fire bats - this one is a bit different than how it is in his game and acts as more of a flamethrower like move of a medium range constant swarm of flaming bats.

Up special: Trident toss - Ganondorf tosses the trident in one of eight directions and teleports to its location damaging anyone it touches.

Down special: Ground pound: This is kind of similar to Bowser’s down special but he slams the ground with his fist.

 

[Kirbeh]

I’m always happy to see more options in a fighter. The only potential issue with a stance character is that they are essentially taking the same amount of work as a transform duo but you’re only getting one character instead of two. For characters I personally like such as Ganondorf, I’d be happy to see something like this if they decided to go that direction. I still have fun with his current moveset but I’d love to see something a little closer to his Zelda boss fights. I think my ideal Ganondorf moveset is mostly a fusion of his boss fight in Ocarina of Time with other attacks from his pig forms in the older games. I wrote out a basic moveset idea for this a long time ago but I’m not sure where it is.

I mean that's kinda the whole point of stance characters isn't it?

There are definitely pairs (or trios ) that make sense and allow for multiple characters to be included under one "slot", but I don't think traditional stance characters should be exempt just because they don't increase the head count.

As for the second point, wouldn't having actual Ganon serve that role better? Even if it's another form of a character already on the roster, he'd still be distinct both visually and moveset wise. I would hope that having that as a second Ganon would be easier to swallow for most Smash fans after 3 Links who essentially serve as semi clones of each other.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The way I look at it is... Stance Characters and Transformation Characters are identical in practice except for how they get to the next character(transformations take a bit longer to load).

However, with that in mind, stuff like how stats are programmed in do matter. Ganondorf with a stance isn't the same as a Ganondorf transforming outright into another Ganondorf, as that treats them as separate characters. I do forget how the stats worked during Brawl, though. I know functionally they're different in programming, but not in every way. If I remember right, this is why things like alt costumes for anyone with a unique ability or any stat change itself was forced into another slot. I just don't remember if a Transformation character counts as more than one slot. X.X

 

[Perkilator]

As far as stance characters, this was the major idea I had for Bandana Waddle Dee, switching between his Spear and Parasol. Dr. Eggman was also treated as a stance fighter by Rivals of Aether.