Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CapitaineCrash]

Counterpoint; Microsoft may be easier to play ball with than say Sony. I mean Banjo-Kazooie is being added to N64 NSO. Plus, Minecraft’s one of the THE largest IPs of all time

my only concern is modifying stages for Steve’s gimmick. Hope they find a way to streamline the process

Yeah of course. I was talking about third party already in the game, so of course Sony would be harder than Microsoft. My point was more that if the third already accepted to be in Smash once, I don't think it would be a huge problem to be in Smash a second time.

 

[Geno Boost]

Speaking of Steve if custom moves comes back in the next smash game what would you like Steve to get for his custom special moves to be?
There are a lot of options when it comes to Minecraft items

 

[DarthEnderX]

i dont want retro rep concept to be thrown off the table its always exciting for me to see a character getting revived in this modern age of gaming and smash bros is a great game to do it.

I like to see that as well...with Assist Trophies.

I think characters like Takamaru and Sukapon have the exact level of representation that those characters warrant. And it's the level characters like Ice Climbers, G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt SHOULD be at, instead of as full Fighters.

I disagree with this take. A lot. You never know if the retro character is so popular that they get a new game. Then they aren't these so called "failures" I know the only character who that happened to was Pit, but who knows what could happen.

Pit is NOT in the same category. KI had 2 games on 2 different consoles, and also was well liked during it's day and fondly remembered, even before Smash.

Ice Climbers is only remembered at all BECAUSE of Smash.

 

[NintenRob]

Honestly this might be a hot take, but I think that most third party could be back easily. I mean, if Disney accepted to see Sora in Smash once, why would they refuse for a second game? Especially considering 1) They probably saw the very positive reaction and 2) they saw that Sakurai and the team can respect the character source material and are ready to put a huge amount of work in the charactrers. So if thing worked well for Ultimate, why wouldn't it worked for a second game?

I think this is how Sephiroth got in Ultimate. Square was probably not too sure about letting Cloud in Smash 4, but when they saw fans reactions and Sakurai passion, they accepted Sephiroth easily alongside more music and spirits.

I think the biggest grey area would be Banjo and Steve. Those are the exceptions because Microsoft is technically a competitor, and the relationship between them and Nintendo might not last. But I think most of the other third party could be in a second game more easily than it was for them to be in Ultimate.

Negotiating for DLC and Negotiating for base game seem to be two different things entirely. I assume the companies involved each get a slice of that DLC profit, I doubt the same for the game itself.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I do think retros need to have a lil something outside of Smash, like Takamaru and his Nintendo Land ninja castle or Excitebike’s Mario Kart 8 track

 

[Yiptap]

I like to see that as well...with Assist Trophies.

I think characters like Takamaru and Sukapon have the exact level of representation that those characters warrant. And it's the level characters like Ice Climbers, G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt SHOULD be at, instead of as full Fighters.

Pit is NOT in the same category. KI had 2 games on 2 different consoles, and also was well liked during it's day and fondly remembered, even before Smash.

Ice Climbers is only remembered at all BECAUSE of Smash.

First off, Duck Hunt was fairly popular when it came out. (As well as infamous due to people hating the dog) Second, Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B are important pieces of Nintendo history. Third, when Melee came out, Ice Climbers weren't as obscure as they are now. (Not taking Smash into account) Also, it's literally just Ice Climbers. Chill.

 

[Gengar84]

For me, that's not hope, it's dread. Because those types of "retro" characters are, frankly, the worst picks the Smash roster has. Characters like Ice Climbers and ROB don't even qualify as "has-beens", they are "never-was"s. Those games weren't even good or liked when they were new. That's WHY they never came back.

Those characters are just straight up failures. And while them taking up slights might have made a bit of sense back when Smash was 1st party only, but to have them still doing it when it's taking slots away from potential 3rd party icons is just wasteful.

For me, retro is everything pre-3D graphics. So I don't even consider N64 retro.

But I'm also very old, so...yeah.

I think so. But most seem not to.

It still baffles me that we didn't get a new Duck Hunt on Wii. Or at least as an event in the Wii Sports series.

I mostly agree with this but not quite as extreme. I would definitely prefer popular third party retro characters like the Battletoads and Bill Rizer over characters like the Ice Climbers and ROB but I’m pretty much okay with anyone as long as they’re fun to play. I think I just want characters I like, regardless of whether they are first or third party or if they are iconic. Ideally, I’d like to check as many boxes as possible between iconic status and personal preference but I’d rather have my favorite character (Zegram) even if he is completely obscure than a legend like Master Chief (even if I’d still be happy with him as well).

I think I’m going to stop myself there because I’m probably just rambling and not making any sense lol.

 

[Ivander]

If there's anything I'm hoping for the next Smash, it's more stages without a rep. Like, I'm open to characters regardless of whether they are Retro or Modern, but I'd love to see more stages from unrepresented games or series, since stages aren't the main highlight compared to characters, thus allowing some more freedom with them.

 

[Sucumbio]

I mostly agree with this but not quite as extreme. I would definitely prefer popular third party retro characters like the Battletoads and Bill Rizer over characters like the Ice Climbers and ROB but I’m pretty much okay with anyone as long as they’re fun to play. I think I just want characters I like, regardless of whether they are first or third party or if they are iconic. Ideally, I’d like to check as many boxes as possible between iconic status and personal preference but I’d rather have my favorite character (Zegram) even if he is completely obscure than a legend like Master Chief (even if I’d still be happy with him as well).

I think I’m going to stop myself there because I’m probably just rambling and not making any sense lol.

Ramble on bud it makes sense! I too would swoon over Bill Rizer!

R.O.B.... Haha kinda took me by surprise in Brawl. I was like wait wut.... But then I remembered those commercials from way back then and how cool I thought he was. Turns out no one I knew had him for some reason but that's another story.

What helps his case is how integral his character was in SSE. It could be argued they did that to justify his inclusion but I like to believe Sakurai and company added him then decided he'd be important to story mode.

He still annoys the f outta me when fighting him tho that side b grrrr

 

[PeridotGX]

hmm, if i had to choose between famous third party retros and niche first party retros...

i'll take the niche third party retros.

 

[Gengar84]

hmm, if i had to choose between famous third party retros and niche first party retros...

i'll take the niche third party retros.

Vectorman would be pretty cool, I’m not going to lie. I’ve always been a Nintendo kid so I only got to play Vectorman over my neighbor’s house. Still, he has a cool design and fun looking moveset.

I have a particular taste in characters that most people don’t really share. I tend to prefer stylish and “edgy” characters like Raziel, Illidan, Fulgore, Sub-Zero and characters like that. I think a lot of Smash fans have more of a preference for more cartoony characters like Crash, Geno, and Waluigi and that’s fine too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Niche third parties? Max from Shining Force, please. Hell, I'd just like an RPG Character with a level up mechanic of some sorts. That's something Smash has yet to work with.

...Quest 64 may be closer to niche now thanks to some resurgence, but I'm not counting that.

 

[Gengar84]

My number one most wanted character is about as niche as they come, at least among Smash fans. He’s a secondary character from a PS2 exclusive JRPG that barely anyone has ever played. To make things even worse, he’s also owned by Sony. Nevertheless, he’s my favorite video game character ever so I’ll always root for him even though his chances are about as close to 0% as possible.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I really enjoy the reintroduction aspect of Smash. Stuff like “Hey, remember Pit?!” Or “Hey remember Ice Climber?!! Or ROB?? Or that dog you hated because you suck at shooting ducks??!!” Or even that time it went like “Hey, you don’t know him but here’s Marth! He’s happy to finally meet you!” Younger me loved the whole game of “who the crap is that??” And back then the internet sucked so you really had to do the homework to figure out what a fire emblem was.

I yearn for those days again haha or at least I’d love for younger kids to experience something similar with characters like Tin Star and Mike Jones. Really opens you up to games you missed or never heard of

 

[Gengar84]

I really enjoy the reintroduction aspect of Smash. Stuff like “Hey, remember Pit?!” Or “Hey remember Ice Climber?!! Or ROB?? Or that dog you hated because you suck at shooting ducks??!!” Or even that time it went like “Hey, you don’t know him but here’s Marth! He’s happy to finally meet you!” Younger me loved the whole game of “who the crap is that??” And back then the internet sucked so you really had to do the homework to figure out what a fire emblem was.

I yearn for those days again haha or at least I’d love for younger kids to experience something similar with characters like Tin Star and Mike Jones. Really opens you up to games you missed or never heard of

Yeah I’ll agree that there is an appeal of discovering a character you’ve never heard of through Smash. I got into Fire Emblem after Marth, Roy, and Ike were added to Smash. I had never heard of Fire Emblem before Melee and it has become a series I really enjoy. I’m totally fine with getting a few characters like Ice Climbers every now and then but I just hope it doesn’t come at the expense of classic retro characters whose games I grew up playing.

 

[Sucumbio]

My number one most wanted character is about as niche as they come, at least among Smash fans. He’s a secondary character from a PS2 exclusive JRPG that barely anyone has ever played. To make things even worse, he’s also owned by Sony. Nevertheless, he’s my favorite video game character ever so I’ll always root for him even though his chances are about as close to 0% as possible.

Zegram? Just looked him up he kinda reminds me of captain harlock but grittier

I think he'd be a good fit for smash actually!

 

[Gengar84]

Zegram? Just looked him up he kinda reminds me of captain harlock but grittier

View attachment 335407
View attachment 335408

I think he'd be a good fit for smash actually!

Yeah, that’s him. I even made a whole support thread for him with a complete moveset and everything. It also helps that he’s played by one of my favorite voice actors ever in Steve Blum.

The two characters he reminds me most of visually are Xiahou Dun from Dynasty Warriors and Eugen from Granblue Fantasy.

 

[Ivander]

My most wanted most niche 3rd Party character? Well technically....

I mean, being in Smash as a Spirit is quite the accomplishment, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one here, and probably 1 in a million in the whole Smash fandom, who not only knows the character and series, but also enjoys the series too to actually want the character from it.

Some honorable mentions include:
-Tir
-G-Red
-Max
-Undead Hero
-Cleru/Pratty

Let's see who can figure out these characters without cheating.

 

[Sucumbio]

I know none of those! I lose.

 

[Gengar84]

I just watched Maximilian’s reaction to a rumor that a new Killer Instinct game is in development. If the rumors are true and the game ends up being a success, I’m hoping that would help the chances of a KI character in the next Smash. KI has a lot of history with Nintendo and has an amazing roster and soundtrack. My number one most wanted Rare character is Rash/Battletoads but Fulgore (or pretty much any KI rep) is very close. Ideally, we’d get both but I don’t want to get too greedy.

 

[cashregister9]

Niche third parties Y'all know who I'll pick

A Rune Factory rep is up there too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

First off, Duck Hunt was fairly popular when it came out. (As well as infamous due to people hating the dog)

True. Though I wonder if that would still be the case if it wasn't packed in with the NES. Or if it would just be another Hogan's Alley.

Second, Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B are important pieces of Nintendo history.

So are hanafuda cards and love hotels. That doesn't mean they should be Smash Fighters.

My number one most wanted character is about as niche as they come, at least among Smash fans. He’s a secondary character from a PS2 exclusive JRPG that barely anyone has ever played. To make things even worse, he’s also owned by Sony. Nevertheless, he’s my favorite video game character ever so I’ll always root for him even though his chances are about as close to 0% as possible.

My most wanted most niche 3rd Party character?

 

[Deleted member]

As far as first party newcomers go, I’d like to see Ashley or Kamek. A proper witch/mage would be nice to have.

 

[Retroend]

the only characters i want in the next smash is isaac from golden sun, elma from xenoblade chronicles x, a tales of character, and amaterasu from okami. anyone else added is icing on the cake for me.

 

[ShotoStar]

most wanted niche third party pick? Hahaha... Geno is already a niche third party pick, most of my wants are niche picks. Other than Geno I'd say a When They Cry rep be it Umineko or Higurashi. I think Umineko would have more potential as far as a character would go so I'd love to see Beatrice or even Battler, both being from Umineko.

Unfortunately it's a niche franchise from a niche genre (Visual Novels) and if we were to get a VN rep there's like two big ones that'd realistically get in first; Phoenix Wright and Monokuma/A Danganronpa character... as much as I don't like the latter. That said they'd be great, especially Beatrice we don't really have a traditional witch character (Bayo doesn't count because she's not... really Witch-like, y'know? She doesn't use magic and stuff that's not her forte in Smash.) and also another girl in Smash which is always nice to see.

put her in

Spoiler: big-ish image

 

[osby]

most wanted niche third party pick? Hahaha... Geno is already a niche third party pick, most of my wants are niche picks. Other than Geno I'd say a When They Cry rep be it Umineko or Higurashi. I think Umineko would have more potential as far as a character would go so I'd love to see Beatrice or even Battler, both being from Umineko.

Unfortunately it's a niche franchise from a niche genre (Visual Novels) and if we were to get a VN rep there's like two big ones that'd realistically get in first; Phoenix Wright and Monokuma/A Danganronpa character... as much as I don't like the latter. That said they'd be great, especially Beatrice we don't really have a traditional witch character

I'm being nitpicky but aren't Ace Attorney and Danganronpa more like text adventure games than visual novels?

EDIT:

(Bayo doesn't count because she's not... really Witch-like, y'know? She doesn't use magic and stuff that's not her forte in Smash.)

Well, I agree that she's anything but traditional but saying she doesn't cast magic is a stretch. Even if you ignore how her guns, she still summons demons and transforms herself into bats.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is something I genuinely think has been lost more and more in the greater discourse. During Smash 4 it was generally understood that, like you said, a "retro character" had a very specific meaning: a first party character from a dead, usually-one-off game for the NES, SNES, or GameBoy. A character that was done and dusted by the time those crazy things called "polygons" came and hit the scene.

Characters like Takamaru, Mach Rider, Muddy Mole, Sukapon, Bubbles, Tamagon, Balloon Fighter, Donbe and Hikari, the Prince of Sablé, Lip, Urban Champion, Hakkun, Sheriff (an arcade character, even), Diskun, hell even the Ice Hockey trio. Those are the ones that fit the older, well-understood definition of what a "retro character" was.

Using it for characters like Simon and Pac-Man never felt right to me. Like...Castlevania and Pac-Man still get games. Simon is no more a retro character than Marth is. Not to mention it's a category that used to pretty much exclusively mean first party characters, since the characters that would fit for a third party variant...wouldn't be the types picked for Smash to begin with, lol.

This made me think of my old idea for a Sheriff redesign. I was thinking about how Pit basically got reinvented for Brawl and if that could happen for any other characters. After thinking about it, I've come to my conclusion. If any character got a complete redesign, I'd want it to be Sheriff.

Sheriff is an important game but the main character looks like this.

You can't make this a fighter no matter how hard you try. Even Mr. Game & Watch had more animations you could borrow from. You're going to need some creative liberties.

So, imagine this...

Sheriff being one of Nintendo's oldest characters, should reflect that. Make him old. He could be an old grizzled cowboy. Maybe in his fifties, with gray hair and beard and an old beat up hat. Something along the lines of this.

He's a legend with a revolver and has so much gunfighting experience that he makes Samus, Mega Man and Joker look like amateurs. He could be a precision zoner that focuses on sniping and trick shots. He could fully aim his pistol (without a laser sight) to hit opponents at impossible angles and could even use ricochets as a method to change each bullet's properties. If we want to jump fully into the wild west theme, we could even include things like a horse, a cover mechanic, dynamite and tumbleweeds. There's a lot of untapped potential here.

Smash has a lot of zoners and projectile focused characters, but it has yet to have a true precision based zoner. The closest thing we have is Palutena Bow and Silver Bow, but those moves don't define the Pits' playstyles. Sheriff is an all around great choice for a retro rep and I wish more people talked about him.


TLDR: Put a gun toting cowboy in Smash.

And then put this cowboy in for good measure.

Cowboys are cool.

 

[Idon]

I'm being nitpicky but aren't Ace Attorney and Danganronpa more like text adventure games than visual novels?

EDIT:


Well, I agree that she's anything but traditional but saying she doesn't cast magic is a stretch. Even if you ignore how her guns, she still summons demons and transforms herself into bats.

If it's good enough for wikipedia, it's good enough for me:

Both are a novel
with visual elements
and light gameplay.

 

[Geno Boost]

I do think retros need to have a lil something outside of Smash, like Takamaru and his Nintendo Land ninja castle or Excitebike’s Mario Kart 8 track

I always thought Hakkun should be in splatoon sucking the ink as he does in his game Hakkun sutte that would be a fitting place for him.
I also want Joy mech fight characters to be featured again there are lot of awesome looking characters from that game
Teleroboxer characters in arms sequel would be interesting
Panel de Pon characters in Puyo Puyo would be fitting

 

[Yamat08]

I actually like World of Light if I’m being honest. I just think it could use some tweaks here and there. When I can I’ll do a big ass write up on how to improve WoL and other single player contents

big agree on hoping for Everyone Is Back tho

I'll be interested in seeing this write-up. Do you plan to post it here, or in another thread?

For what it's worth, I still found World of Light better than not having an Adventure Mode at all. But yeah, I REALLY wanted platforming, not yet more vs. matches. I thought it was flawed in a lot of other ways, but I'll save it for wherever you plan to post your write-up.

 

[spicynun]

My most wanted most niche 3rd Party character? Well technically....

I mean, being in Smash as a Spirit is quite the accomplishment, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one here, and probably 1 in a million in the whole Smash fandom, who not only knows the character and series, but also enjoys the series too to actually want the character from it.

Some honorable mentions include:
-Tir
-G-Red
-Max
-Undead Hero
-Cleru/Pratty

Let's see who can figure out these characters without cheating.

I know for a fact G Red is Gotcha Force. I love that game and its apparently super expensive now. Glad I still have my copy. Max could be many characters (Scribblenauts?) but my bias says Dark Cloud 2. Dont know the others

 

[Speed Weed]

My most wanted most niche 3rd Party character? Well technically....

I mean, being in Smash as a Spirit is quite the accomplishment, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one here, and probably 1 in a million in the whole Smash fandom, who not only knows the character and series, but also enjoys the series too to actually want the character from it.

Some honorable mentions include:
-Tir
-G-Red
-Max
-Undead Hero
-Cleru/Pratty

Let's see who can figure out these characters without cheating.

Uhhhh the guy you mention is Allen from Culdcept, Tir I think is from Suikoden, G-Red is from Gotcha Force, Max could be a lot of things and Undead Hero is from Guardian Heroes. Did I get 'em right?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Uhhhh the guy you mention is Allen from Culdcept, Tir I think is from Suikoden, G-Red is from Gotcha Force, Max could be a lot of things and Undead Hero is from Guardian Heroes. Did I get 'em right?

I dont think that G red could join smash or Maxwell due to Overpowered creativity with everything. Or Allen from Culdcept, although there are chances of them I the list of newcomers.
I think we need someone more important to VG History like Kratos, Sackboy or even knight from Hollow Knight.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

or Maxwell due to Overpowered creativity with everything

I'm pretty sure that if "Max" was Maxwell, they'd just say "Maxwell."

Regardless, Maxwell isn't exactly obscure. He wouldn't fit the theme of the post.

 

[osby]

I dont think that G red could join smash or Maxwell due to Overpowered creativity with everything. Or Allen from Culdcept, although there are chances of them I the list of newcomers.

Sakurai and his team didn't reworked every single stage in Ultimate to be compatible with Steve's blocks for people to go "overpowered creativity".

I think we need someone more important to VG History like Kratos, Sackboy or even knight from Hollow Knight.

Scribblenauts isn't really any less important than Hollow Knight, tbh.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

『スマブラ 』開発が終わって、参戦疑惑に気を遣う必要がなくなりましたね。
今ならこんな写真を出しても、何ら問題なし！ pic.twitter.com/JwehfUu5SZ

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 23, 2021

Seems like Sakurai intentionally waited till after Sora released to show us that he owned a sus.

 

[Geno Boost]

-niche
-3rd party
-iconic
-retro 100%
-main villain
-was in 1 game
-seen only in few frames just like Duck Hunt yet became so popular because of it

Well then
Let me introduce you to CATS from Zero wing the most craziest thing i could ever ask for

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

-niche
-3rd party
-iconic
-retro 100%
-main villain
-was in 1 game
-seen only in few frames just like Duck Hunt yet became so popular because of it

Well then
Let me introduce you to CATS from Zero wing the most craziest thing i could ever ask for

If he was added into Smash, he could say: All your base belong to us.
He would funny and serious.

 

[Geno Boost]

If he was added into Smash, he could say: All your base belong to us.
He would funny and serious.

he is gonna say way more stuff since in the japanese version of Zero wing it had 32 extra endings in each he says something funny or crazy i want to see him sounds serious saying these in the victory screen while everything is burning behind him like Sephiroth lol

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

『スマブラ 』開発が終わって、参戦疑惑に気を遣う必要がなくなりましたね。
今ならこんな写真を出しても、何ら問題なし！ pic.twitter.com/JwehfUu5SZ

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 23, 2021

Seems like Sakurai intentionally waited till after Sora released to show us that he owned a sus.

This will be our first newcomer for Smash 6, replacing the Inkling trailer with Amogus.