Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dukefire]

Gaming is ever evolving to cater to both old and new audiences like how other entertainment are in the world. Honestly, I'm still surprised on how gaming in the 90s and early 2000s was able to get away with so much innuendos and fear for kid games. (Kirby, Banjo and Kazooie, Earthbound, etc)

Though, sometimes development does need to take a step back into the past due to losing sight. By new people adding their ideas to the mix, it can eventually lose the original favor if not handled correctly. A phoenix dies, only to reborn from the ashes anew.

 

[Gengar84]

Gaming is ever evolving to cater to both old and new audiences like how other entertainment are in the world. Honestly, I'm still surprised on how gaming in the 90s and early 2000s was able to get away with so much innuendos and fear for kid games. (Kirby, Banjo and Kazooie, Earthbound, etc)

Though, sometimes development does need to take a step back into the past due to losing sight. By new people adding their ideas to the mix, it can eventually lose the original favor if not handled correctly. A phoenix dies, only to reborn from the ashes anew.

Our kids cartoons from back in the day had so many not so subtle adult jokes like this:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

That was such a great cartoon. I was too young at the time to understand the joke but it’s really funny now that I’m older.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Gaming is ever evolving to cater to both old and new audiences like how other entertainment are in the world. Honestly, I'm still surprised on how gaming in the 90s and early 2000s was able to get away with so much innuendos and fear for kid games. (Kirby, Banjo and Kazooie, Earthbound, etc)

There is also mechanics that wouldn’t be in those types of games today such as stuff like the Game Corner from the Gen 1-4 games and the Luigi Mini-Game in 64DS/NSMB1 because of restrictions from Europe and other places like South Korea.

Greninja is meant to be explicitly Ash's since it turns into the form made by bonding with Ash.

Although that’s a retroactive change in Ultimate rather than it being intentional from the start since the developers designed Greninja’s moveset before the Pokemon Anime writers even planned for Ash to even have one.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I think Smash 6’s art style and models will be significantly overhauled and different. Maybe even better animations because of the upgrade to new hardware.

I feel like this will make the game more distinct since Ultimate’s models were mostly just modified versions from Smash 4.

I would like something closer to how Marvel Rivals or Guilty Gear strive or Granblue fantasy versus rising looks in style.

Or just make the graphics from Ultinate way more stylized, like closer to this one smash ultimate trailer they did.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

The switch 2 would be the biggest increase in power we had for a new smash game so far so it better take advantage of its new capabilities well in a way that stands out.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Don't take it the wrong way but how do you guys attached to this series for so long? Especially something "family-friendly" as this series.

You never felt burnout or you guys have outgrown the series? Just weird to believe to hitting middle-ages with backpains, aging bones and all other experiences and responsibilities life will throw at ya and still have as crude as Smash on the mind.

Nothing necessarily wrong with it but just feels odd. People usually change overtime. Most 30-40 year old are indifferent, dismissive or leave it and such nerdu hobbies behind due to responsibilities like kids, retirement or something

To answer all questions, not really. I do understand why you think it would be odd, though, honestly.

 

[Garteam]

Alright, let's do some fun analysis to shake things up.
It's been awhile since I brought this in the old speculation thread.
Write pro-con for your most wanted. You can put iffy part in the middle

Master Chief

Pro

• Microsoft and Nintendo are in good term as Banjo and Steve are in Smash. MS also published games on Nintendo platform even before Minecraft. On top of that, Microsoft is expected to be the biggest publisher for Switch 2.
• There has been a rumor of Switch 2 port of Master Chief Collection. Of course, ports don't mean Smash promotion, but this is still a big boon.
• Halo is one of the most influential series as it paved ways for modern FPS.
• Lots of moveset potential with new gimmick. Possibly the most diverse moveset potential among FPS rep.
• FPS genre definitely can use rep in Smash.
• Sakurai played and praised Halo 2 along with Half Life 2. So, he is definitely acquainted with Halo series.

Iffy

• There is firearm issue, but Bayonetta and Joker proved this point moot. Even then, UNSC firearm look less realistic than Joker's gun.
• It may be difficult to balance him out due to nature of zoner. But, there are many ways to balance out. And, he has plenty of melee options from his source materials.
• Recently, Microsoft denied map collaboration between Halo and Call of Duty despite owning both franchises. I put this part iffy because this is Microsoft's most recent stance regarding collaboration between Halo and other franchise. Did leadership change their mind? Change of plan?

Con

• Halo's popularity in Japan may be roadblock. But, About 4 million out of 20 millions of Ultimate sales came from Japan. While it's impressive number, but it's not as damning as people make it out to be. Halo anime was sold decently in Japan. Japanese anime studio wouldn't simply accept check if Halo was totally obscure in Japan. There are still Halo merchandise made by Japanese coming in.
• Lack of games on Nintendo platform hurts, but Chief made appearance on Nintendo platform via Minecraft and Fortnite. Though this factor has a very high chance of being null in the future thanks to potential Switch 2 port of MCC.
• Current declining trajectory of Xbox and Halo brand may deter Nintendo from choosing Chief.

I ported and edited my last write-up.

I'm extremely late to this, but I like this format and I think it sparks good discussions.

X (Mega Man)

Pros:

• Mega Man is an incredibly popular and iconic series that has traditionally received the red carpet treatment in Smash. It also has a massive stable of popular characters, making it perfect for a second rep.
• Looking beyond Classic Mega Man is a logical direction to take future Mega Man content in Smash and Ultimate was already softly going in that direction (Zero's assist trophy, a selection of spirits from X and Legends, Central Highway and Shooting Star getting remixes, etc.). Of those subseries, X is the most popular.
• Mega Man X(1) is, going by Capcom's recent Super Election poll, the most popular game in the series and Capcom's 14th most popular game of all time. X, as the protagonist and center of the game, is obviously the best rep for it. X4 and Maverick Hunter X both also ranked in the top 50, at #20 and #33 respectively.
• X1-X3 are some of the most iconic Super Nintendo games. X1 is thought of particularly fondly, being considered one of the best action-platformers of all time and being up there with Nintendo and Square's offerings from the era in terms of the best SNES games.
• X is, according Capcom's Super Election poll, the most popular variation of Mega Man, the most popular character in the larger Mega Man franchise, and Capcom's third most popular character of all time.
• X has a ton of moveset potential due to his various special weapons, multiple armours, and the possibility of pairing him with Zero as a transforming character. He will also be relatively unique to most of Smash's roster due to being a heavily project-oriented character like Rock.

Iffy:

• There may be a problem with having two versions of Mega Man on the roster, but that didn't stop us from getting multiple versions of Mario, Link, or Samus. Mega Man is pretty much tied with Link for being gaming's most famous "legacy character", so I don't think it feels unjustified. Rock, X, Volnutt, and EXE each doing well on the Capcom poll also supports that each version of Mega Man has their own fans.
• Mega Man's hiatus and especially the X series' hiatus probably don't help X, but Third Parties trend towards being legacy, retro characters anyways. Even when it's a character with frequent modern appearances like Sonic or Sora, their moveset and appearance is primarily taken from older titles.
• Budget issues may limit the number of secondary characters from Third Party series. Personally, I don't think this is that big of an issue when the licenses that could support multiple characters are probably coming back anyways and most of the IP holders are very generous when it comes to Smash, but it could still be a barrier to entry.

Cons:

• Competition among Capcom is incredibly fierce. There's the possibility of a second Street Fighter character, but also a chance that Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, or Ace Attorney gets a character. I don't think there will strictly be one Capcom spot, but X may be outprioritized.
• X has to compete with Zero, another incredibly popular character from his home series. I think "Zero is the real protagonist of Mega Man X" is largely a misconception that doesn't reflect any of the X games except X4 and possibly X5, but he's still a really stand-out option that could also represent Mega Man X. I do think there's a way to get both in if they were a transforming character to reference X8 (having identical stats but different movesets like in the X series proper, basically as an inverted Pythra) or Sakurai just says "**** it" and adds both as separate characters.

 

[ninjahmos]

Honestly, as much as I'd love to see Zero in Smash, I'd love to see X even more.

Imagine if they gave him Hadoken and Shoryuken as part of his moveset…meanwhile, they could give Zero Senpukyaku.

 

[BrawlX10]

I think Smash 6’s art style and models will be significantly overhauled and different. Maybe even better animations because of the upgrade to new hardware.

It depends in the direction of Smash 6.
If Smash 6 goes all-in in begin a new game, then yes.
If Smash 6 reuses heavily from Ultimate to avoid as many cuts as possible, then no.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is everyone ok with how final smashes work in Ultimate? Quick and fast to resume the fighting faster with little control influence from player unlike in Brawl and Smash 4.

Yes. They should all be quick cutscenes that play out and get you right back to the action.

I mean Beam's rod/wand/whatever you call it isn't really a polearm, though. Kirby holds it in his hand at one end and beams come out of the orb, so if anything, the shape of it is more like a microphone.

Yes, a wand is not a staff.

Toad: Warp Whistle: Toad plays on a flute to summon a massive tornado that sweeps up and launches any opponent it touches.

Why the hell would that be a Toad move? The only Mario game it's in is SMB3, which doesn't have playable toad. And even there, it's only a Zelda reference.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Why the hell would that be a Toad move? The only Mario game it's in is SMB3, which doesn't have playable toad. And even there, it's only a Zelda reference.

I assume because the first one in the game in 1-3 is in a Toad House? Not sure if that's why necessarily, but I can see that angle for giving it to Toad at least.

Don't think it should be his Final Smash, but yeah.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It depends in the direction of Smash 6.
If Smash 6 goes all-in in begin a new game, then yes.
If Smash 6 reuses heavily from Ultimate to avoid as many cuts as possible, then no.

You can change an art style while reusing a lot of your assets. Both SSB4 and Ultimate did this already. Heck the Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite & Beyond mod is almost entirely a filter over the regular graphics* and the difference is night and day.

*Ryu had his hair remodeled and Captain America and Rocket have entirely new models because their existing ones were so scuffed.

 

[cashregister9]

Honestly I'd be perfectly happy if the next Smash just increased the saturation and added outlines tbh

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm a little late on this, but if Bandana Dee is gonna get a swap stance style (or something like that) if he gets into Smash, I think Spear and Parasol might be the best options for him.

 

[HyperSomari64]

None of those are what people would typically consider adult gritty realistic designs but they’re not really cartoony or “kiddie” either.

Bro. Classic Battletoads is literally "Tex Avery: the Beat 'Em Up", how's that not so cartoony?
Or maybe I'm mistaking it for Dynamite Dux.

 

[Gengar84]

Bro. Classic Battletoads is literally "Tex Avery: the Beat 'Em Up", how's that not so cartoony?
Or maybe I'm mistaking it for Dynamite Dux.

I mean, there’s definitely some similarities there like the bulging eyes shock face but I think it’s more in line with the classic TMNT comics. I can see where you’re coming from with the Looney Tunes comparison though. I feel like it was going for a halfway point of the gritty Mirage Comics TMNT with the more cartoony TMNT TV show. It was basically made to capitalize on the success of TMNT and make their own version. I’ve always grouped them in with comic book-esque rather than cartoony for that reason but there are elements of both. The arcade game is actually pretty violent and bloody, which makes me associate them more with comics. The limb transformations could be argued as cartoony but Carnage has the same ability. I think it combines elements of comics and cartoons since it has the edginess and attitude of comics and the exaggerated expressions of cartoons. I don’t think either classification is wrong.

 

[BrawlX10]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

 

[Kirbeh]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

Similar boat to you. I technically played Melee first for like 5 minutes at a birthday party but Brawl was my first proper introduction to not just Smash but most of Nintendo as a whole.

Got started with games on my older sister's PS2, so outside of Pokemon (due to the anime and finally playing Pearl) every Nintendo character was pretty much new to me. Even Mario I only had a passing familiarity with.

After Brawl though, there haven't been any fighters added to Smash that I didn't know about. Characters as a whole though? There's been a few here and there like Vince from Art Academy and franchises like Culdcept.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

My first ever non-educational game was Melee, so a lot of that roster would qualify I think? I feel like I knew some of them already, like I probably knew Pikachu from the anime and may have known Mario and some of the other Mario adjacents through just general culture osmosis or commercials or something.

Brawl also came out when I was like 11-12, so even though I knew the returning characters were in Melee at least (I had played more games obviously, but like the Ice Climbers for example I would've been like "oh these guys from Melee!") alongside most of the newcomers, I'd say I probably didn't know Pit, Olimar, Wolf, Ike, Lucas, and Snake? Ironically I did know R.O.B. already because I played a lot of Mario Kart DS, but I didn't know these guys (Pit was retro, I wouldn't get into Pikmin until later on, I wouldn't really get into FE until Awakening, Lucas was Japan-only, and Snake was pretty much just on platforms my family never owned outside of Twin Snakes lol).

Since then though I've pretty much known everyone since I'm so much older now lol

 

[fogbadge]

Don't take it the wrong way but how do you guys attached to this series for so long? Especially something "family-friendly" as this series.

You never felt burnout or you guys have outgrown the series? Just weird to believe to hitting middle-ages with backpains, aging bones and all other experiences and responsibilities life will throw at ya and still have as crude as Smash on the mind.

Nothing necessarily wrong with it but just feels odd. People usually change overtime. Most 30-40 year old are indifferent, dismissive or leave it and such nerdu hobbies behind due to responsibilities like kids, retirement or something

true maturity is realising that you can like whatever the smeg you want and hang the nae sayers

 

[Gengar84]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

The only ones I had no clue about prior to being in Smash were the Ice Climbers, Marth, Roy, Mr. Game & Watch and Lucas.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

Most of melee's cast back in the day.

 

[Lukingordex]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

The first "smash game" I've player was super smash Flash 2 when I only ever had PlayStation consoles way back then. So like, I didn't know anyone besides the Mario and Pokemon characters and I was pretty sure Kirby was also a pokémon.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is everyone ok with how final smashes work in Ultimate? Quick and fast to resume the fighting faster with little control influence from player unlike in Brawl and Smash 4.

Making them more cinematic works but I miss transformations...

 

[Perkilator]

I think Aura Storm is the ideal role model for what Final Smashes should be: it’s a Final Smash that gives the player control while still keeping the match’s pace flowing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think Aura Storm is the ideal role model for Ultimate’s philosophy: it’s a Final Smash that gives the player control while still keeping the match’s pace flowing.

No. I don't think it is.

It's one of the few Final Smashes that give any meaningful control. To the point where I'm pretty sure that out of all Ultimate's newcomers, Inkling is the only one to act this way while every other newcomer gets a cutscene.

I haven't counted which give player control and which are cutscenes but out of sheer vibes and gut feeling, I'd say the latter is closer to the general philosophy while a couple of veterans got lucky with a more controllable less cutsceney Final Smash.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).

Lucas was probably the most unknown character to ever be revealed outside of unlockable characters since Mother 3’s fan translation wasn’t finished until after Brawl released.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I think Aura Storm is the ideal role model for Ultimate’s philosophy: it’s a Final Smash that gives the player control while still keeping the match’s pace flowing.

...What? No, seriously, what?

Look at both DLC passes where every character has the same cutscene Final Smash then get back to me.

This is a baffling take. Aura Storm is one of the very few Final Smashes in Ultimate that actually gives you control. Most of the new FS's are cutscenes that give you no agency other than where you press the button to initiate it, and a slew of older ones were changed to fit this philosophy too.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

This is a baffling take. Aura Storm is one of the very few Final Smashes in Ultimate that actually gives you control. Most of the new FS's are cutscenes that give you no agency other than where you press the button to initiate it, and a slew of older ones were changed to fit this philosophy too.

I think that was his point, I think he was trying to say making these Smashes like Aura Storm would have been a better way of keeping the match flowing than what Ult. did.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think that was his point, I think he was trying to say making these Smashes like Aura Storm would have been a better way of keeping the match flowing than what Ult. did.

Yeah but to call it "the ultimate role model for Ultimate's philosophy" is very strange wording when it's rarely been the game's actual philosophy.

I do agree something like Aura Storm is a nice compromise however because yeah, I gotta concede that older Final Smashes took way too long but having the vast majority of them be cutscenes also took away a lot of the charm behind the concept as a whole.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I think that was his point, I think he was trying to say making these Smashes like Aura Storm would have been a better way of keeping the match flowing than what Ult. did.

Looking back at the post, I could see him meaning that. The wording isn't great though.

The way he worded his post made it seem like Aura Storm was a prime example of how Final Smashes are currently utilized, not how they should be utilized.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Gorgonzales and I are really sharing brain cells today, aren't we?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal? (or well before you picked up the game).
My friend and me just remembered we used to play lots of crossover games when we were teens (SEGA Superstar Tennis, Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale, Project x Zone 1)....even though we had no idea who like most of those people were, but we had a lot of fun regardless lol.
As for Smash Bros...my first game was Brawl and i was a PS2 kid....so like 70% of the roster was a "who?" for me, i think i only knew the Mario + Adjecents, the Pokemon cast, Link, Snake and Sonic. lol
After Brawl the only character i didn't know was Ritcher, everyone else i know about or heard about, im not sure if they'll ever introduce another character i don't know about in the future, but i mean Ritchet caught me off guard, so who knows.

Yeah, quite a few.

64: didn't know or Samus, Captain Falcon and Ness. Kirby and Fox being only strangely familiar at that time. They all grew on me quickly. Played every series in this first installment quite soon because of it. Zelda first and foremost, then Metroid.

Melee: didn't know of Marth or Roy of course, but hugely got into Fire Emblem quickly afterwards. Didn't know Ice Climbers and Mr.Game and Watch either. Played a little Ice Climber but boyyyyy is it boring.

Brawl: everyone was a familiar face here honestly. No huge surprises. Oh I guess Snake wasn't as familiar here however. Never really picked up Metal Gear afterwards either.

Smash 4: I think I knew everyone.

Ultimate: only character I legitimately didn't know of was Joker.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is there any Smash Bros. characters you didn't know about before their Smash Bros. reveal?

Ice Climbers, Marth, Roy, G&W.

Lucas was probably the most unknown character to ever be revealed outside of unlockable characters since Mother 3’s fan translation wasn’t finished until after Brawl released.

Eh. I was online a lot more by the time Brawl came around. So I knew who Lucas was even though the game never came out here.

 

[Perkilator]

No. I don't think it is.

It's one of the few Final Smashes that give any meaningful control. To the point where I'm pretty sure that out of all Ultimate's newcomers, Inkling is the only one to act this way while every other newcomer gets a cutscene.

I haven't counted which give player control and which are cutscenes but out of sheer vibes and gut feeling, I'd say the latter is closer to the general philosophy while a couple of veterans got lucky with a more controllable less cutsceney Final Smash.

...What? No, seriously, what?

Look at both DLC passes where every character has the same cutscene Final Smash then get back to me.

This is a baffling take. Aura Storm is one of the very few Final Smashes in Ultimate that actually gives you control. Most of the new FS's are cutscenes that give you no agency other than where you press the button to initiate it, and a slew of older ones were changed to fit this philosophy too.

I reworded my original message to make it more clear.

I think Aura Storm is the ideal role model for what Final Smashes should be: it’s a Final Smash that gives the player control while still keeping the match’s pace flowing.