Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Oracle Link]

So someone on this plattform said Smash with circa 70 Characters (i did 74 because i forgot Firemblem) and 15 Newcomers i did exactly that so here have Fun:

M logic behind the cuts was this: big franchises get some cuts + a newcomer to balance things out! and no big behemoth 8 char franchises! also new nintendo ips, 3rd partys and nintendo classics got 2 newcomers each
also no multichars cause they mess up the count of chars!

 

[RileyXY1]

So someone on this plattform said Smash with circa 70 Characters (i did 74 because i forgot Firemblem) and 15 Newcomers i did exactly that so here have Fun:
View attachment 379110
M logic behind the cuts was this: big franchises get some cuts + a newcomer to balance things out! and no big behemoth 8 char franchises! also new nintendo ips, 3rd partys and nintendo classics got 2 newcomers each
also no multichars cause they mess up the count of chars!

I'm not really expecting Doomguy to get in for obvious reasons.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not really expecting Doomguy to get in for obvious reasons.

Bayonetta is pretty gory too in her home series from what I’ve seen and she was able to make it in Smash. I think you can have Doom Slayer without any of the gore. There are now multiple characters in Smash from M rated series so I don’t see that as much of an issue either. DOOM was able to get a Mii outfit so I think that shows that the series isn’t off limits for Smash content.

 

[Ivander]

I'm not really expecting Doomguy to get in for obvious reasons.

It feels very silly to draw the line at Doomguy when we have Bayonetta being in Smash Bros. And last time I checked, Bayonetta has done just about the same stuff as Doomguy, if not done worse things to her enemies in her first game.

 

[RileyXY1]

Bayonetta is pretty gory too in her home series from what I’ve seen and she was able to make it in Smash. I think you can have Doom Slayer without any of the gore. There are now multiple characters in Smash from M rated series so I don’t see that as much of an issue either. DOOM was able to get a Mii outfit so I think that shows that the series isn’t off limits for Smash content.

There's also that he's redundant now as Microsoft owns Bethesda, and Microsoft has their own home grown FPS protagonist (who also wears a suit of green armor).

 

[Oracle Link]

I dont have any strong opinions on the matter its either going to be doom guy or master chief! i didnt play either!
I just like my rosters to be balanced and fair! a stage list is coming too i think we could get a bunch of new stages in the next smash maybe?

 

[Gengar84]

There's also that he's redundant now as Microsoft owns Bethesda, and Microsoft has their own home grown FPS protagonist (who also wears a suit of green armor).

Other than similar visual design, Slayer and Chief are pretty different. I don’t think they’d really play very similarly beyond being projectile based. Doom Slayer also has the benefit of several Nintendo appearances while Halo hasn’t had a single game on a Nintendo console. I don’t think that outright disqualifies Master Chief but I feel it might cause him to drop a bit in priority compared to other options.

There’s also the fact that DOOM has already gotten Smash content before Halo.

 

[Schnee117]

There's also that he's redundant now as Microsoft owns Bethesda, and Microsoft has their own home grown FPS protagonist (who also wears a suit of green armor).

They're both more than different enough to each other to stand out.

 

[osby]

There's also that he's redundant now as Microsoft owns Bethesda, and Microsoft has their own home grown FPS protagonist (who also wears a suit of green armor).

Square Enix had no problem getting two our their big JRPG poster boy sword wielder characters into Smash, I think Halo and Doom are different enough.

 

[Kirbeh]

There's also that he's redundant now as Microsoft owns Bethesda, and Microsoft has their own home grown FPS protagonist (who also wears a suit of green armor).

So you're claiming redundancy based on a couple of surface level similarities?

 

[Gengar84]

That said, while I’d probably enjoy both Doom Slayer and Master Chief in Smash, there are several Microsoft characters I’d personally prefer to see before either of them, particularly from RARE and Blizzard. Some of my most wanted characters are the Battletoads, Fulgore, Illidan Stormrage, and Sarah Kerrigan. I’d personally go for Joanna Dark before either because I loved the first Perfect Dark on the N64, which was a Nintendo exclusive at the time (along with everything else from RARE).

I don’t think my personal preferences are particularly popular within the general Smash community so I’m not going to try to claim any would make it in before Slayer or Chief. There’s also the possibility of me really loving Slayer’s or Chief’s playstyle in Smash despite preferring other games. Terry and Kazuya are great examples of this. I’ve always been a bigger Street Fighter fan than KoF or Tekken but I have more fun playing Terry and Kazuya than Ryu and Ken.

 

[fogbadge]

It feels very silly to draw the line at Doomguy when we have Bayonetta being in Smash Bros. And last time I checked, Bayonetta has done just about the same stuff as Doomguy, if not done worse things to her enemies in her first game.

hold on, did the doomguy get his kit off?

 

[DarthEnderX]

So you're claiming redundancy based on a couple of surface level similarities?

Surface level is all Smash has. It's not like there's an in-depth story mode where their interactions would highlight their different personalities.

 

[Schnee117]

Surface level is all Smash has. It's not like there's an in-depth story mode where their interactions would highlight their different personalities.

Yeah but surface level is also ignoring their weapons and abilities on top of the general feel of the two games.
Like Chief isn't running around at high speeds with a chainsaw and the Slayer isn't throwing sticky grenades or using bubble shields and the like for cover. Doom is very fast paced and aggressive. Halo is a lot slower and floatier, you can't really rush in unless you think you have enough of an advantage.

 

[Gengar84]

Surface level is all Smash has. It's not like there's an in-depth story mode where their interactions would highlight their different personalities.

That’s also a good point. Although even if they do look similar, they use very different weapons and would likely have pretty different playstyles. I do agree that aesthetics do matter more in a game like Smash where the characters don’t really get a chance to show a ton of personality or character compared to other genres like JRPGs. That’s why I tend to generally prefer characters I think look cool and unique and/or would have interesting gameplay over something like legacy or personality when it comes to Smash. Having those also helps though.

 

[Wonder Smash]

There's also that he's redundant now as Microsoft owns Bethesda, and Microsoft has their own home grown FPS protagonist (who also wears a suit of green armor).

So you're just not going to consider the difference in how they would play?

And besides, Doom Slayer has his series on Nintendo consoles and content in Smash already. And it's Microsoft's series now, so it's not like it'd do them any harm to have Doom Slayer in Smash when he's officially their character now.

 

[Gengar84]

I do think their similar designs might prevent the two from being introduced too close to each other and possibly even leading them to debut in different Smash games but I think their other differences wouldn’t prevent them from both appearing at some point. Kind of like Kazuya and Illidan. Both have transformations into a purple winged demon form and both fire beams from their eyes but they are otherwise pretty different in how they would play.

 

[Kirbeh]

Surface level is all Smash has. It's not like there's an in-depth story mode where their interactions would highlight their different personalities.

Perhaps I should have clarified, but I was referring to gameplay as several have now explained.

I don't see the fact that they're FPS characters who wear green as them being too similar given how easy it is to distinguish them via gameplay.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I like how all of MC's most iconic weapons like the Needler, Plasma Grenades and Energy Sword are actually the Elites' weapons.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Chief’s biggest obstacles are that he has never made an appearance on a Nintendo console beyond a Minecraft skin and that Microsoft has a lot of other strong contenders for playable characters, most with stronger ties to Nintendo. That’s something Halo and WarCraft share despite their huge legacies in gaming as a whole. Like I mentioned, I wouldn’t say that disqualifies them but I would imagine other series might have a bit higher priority due to their connection with Nintendo. That’s why I’d say Doom Slayer is probably more likely despite arguably being not quite as popular with gamers in general (though I’d argue it’s close).

 

[Schnee117]

Visually they're really not actually too similar outside of a broad definition of Green Power Armour either to be perfectly honest.

Those are fairly different shades of green and it's hard to ignore the orange and brown mixed in for the Slayer on top of exposed skin and the Predator inspired attachments where Chief is pretty firmly a darker green with very dark greys and only an orange visor.

If you can distinguish Marth, Lucina and Chrom from one another you can easily do the same with Chief and Slayer.

 

[osby]

If you can distinguish Marth, Lucina and Chrom from one another you can easily do the same with Chief and Slayer.

I agree with your point but you realize you're talking about Smash fandom, right?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Visually they're really not actually too similar outside of a broad definition of Green Power Armour either to be perfectly honest.

Those are fairly different shades of green and it's hard to ignore the orange and brown mixed in for the Slayer on top of exposed skin and the Predator inspired attachments where Chief is pretty firmly a darker green with very dark greys and only an orange visor.

If you can distinguish Marth, Lucina and Chrom from one another you can easily do the same with Chief and Slayer.

It's like comparing the original Megaman with X.
The first looks more cartoony, while the latter looks more serious.

 

[osby]

It's like comparing the original Megaman with X.
The first looks more cartoony, while the latter looks more serious.

You're talking about just Mega Man and not Master Chief, right?

 

[Wonder Smash]

I do think their similar designs might prevent the two from being introduced too close to each other and possibly even leading them to debut in different Smash games but I think their other differences wouldn’t prevent them from both appearing at some point. Kind of like Kazuya and Illidan. Both have transformations into a purple winged demon form and both fire beams from their eyes but they are otherwise pretty different in how they would play.

Other than just wearing a green armor suit, Doom Slayer and Master Chief really don't look that much alike and I don't think Sakurai cares about the similarities in designs. Otherwise, the same thing might as well apply to Hayabusa, with people claiming he didn't making it into FP2 because there was already a swordsman with a katana-style weapon who wore black but...no way THAT was the reason he didn't make it in.

 

[HyperSomari64]

You're talking about just Mega Man and not Master Chief, right?

yes, THE Rock "Mega Man" Light from the Scrimblo Bimblo platform video game of '87.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Visually they're really not actually too similar outside of a broad definition of Green Power Armour either to be perfectly honest.

Those are fairly different shades of green and it's hard to ignore the orange and brown mixed in for the Slayer on top of exposed skin and the Predator inspired attachments where Chief is pretty firmly a darker green with very dark greys and only an orange visor.

If you can distinguish Marth, Lucina and Chrom from one another you can easily do the same with Chief and Slayer.

I don't understand, why did you just post two pictures of Metroid?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually think these things or if they're being argued in bad faith.

 

[Gengar84]

Other than just wearing a green armor suit, Doom Slayer and Master Chief really don't look that much alike and I don't think Sakurai cares about the similarities in designs. Otherwise, the same thing might as well apply to Hayabusa, with people claiming he didn't making it into FP2 because there was already a swordsman with a katana-style weapon who wore black but...no way THAT was the reason he didn't make it in.

I feel like Sephiroth and Hyabusa are a bit more visually distinct from each other compared to Doom Slayer and Master Chief but I get your point. I think Hyabusa and Scorpion might be a better comparison. If Slayer and Chief were the only major game characters from Microsoft, I’d agree that their visual similarities shouldn’t prevent both from appearing but I’d personally be more excited to see someone completely different instead of one of them before we get both. Beyond my personal preference for the characters, that’s another reason I wouldn’t be terribly hyped to get Conker (another N64 era animal 3D platforming mascot) when we could get someone like Fulgore instead.

I’m totally fine if we do get both Master Chief and Doom Slayer since my personal taste isn’t really important when selecting newcomers, I’m just trying to explain why some options would get me more hyped than others.

 

[Kirbeh]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually think these things or if they're being argued in bad faith.

Probably both. People make an incorrect claim because they're unfamiliar with something. They then refuse to look into the matter further because they've already dismissed any other possibility/want to maintain their claim. A common habit for many both on and offline. Isn't it great?

 

[fogbadge]

if you an tell the difference between pit and pitoo you can tell the difference between master chief and doom guy

 

[Gengar84]

On the flip side, now that I think about it a bit more, similarities between characters could actually be a good thing in some ways because it could be fun to pair the two off against each other in a dream match. Doom Slayer Vs Master Chief is a bit more exciting to me than say Doom Slayer Vs Yoshi. I have a similar want with both Bill Rizer and Kerrigan taking inspiration from Alien and Predator. I suppose there are positives in either a very varied cast or more narrowed depending on how you look at things.

 

[Kirbeh]

if you an tell the difference between pit and pitoo you can tell the difference between master chief and doom guy

Agree, though echoing what osby commented earlier, the people who make these claims in the first place tend to be the same ones who can't tell the different between the Pits, Fire Emblem cast, etc.

 

[Gengar84]

I think there’s a difference between someone saying they’d personally prefer to see characters that are a bit more distinct compared to someone saying that two characters can’t or shouldn’t both make it due to their similarities. I never really try to speak in absolutes and I agree there are many valid takes on something like that. I think both Chief and Slayer are pretty cool so I’d be fine with seeing both but my personal preference is getting Fulgore, the Battletoads, Illidan, or Kerrigan instead of one of the two for now. The other can still come later.

Like I mentioned earlier, I think Chief’s lack of presence on Nintendo and the fact that other prominent Microsoft characters have that is a bigger hurdle to Chief than his similarities with Doom Slayer. Those similarities are just one additional minor aspect that could factor in to who Nintendo goes with.

 

[Will]

Just put them both in the ****ing game, man. Everyone wins.

And I get more metal tracks in Smash that’s a win for me personally

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Just put them both in the ****ing game, man. Everyone wins.

And I get more metal tracks in Smash that’s a win for me personally

Let's not forget about Guilty Gear music if we talk about Metal music in video games...
You'll be happy about GG music in Smash...

 

[Will]

Let's not forget about Guilty Gear music if we talk about Metal music in video games...
You'll be happy about GG music in Smash...

I don’t want that I want the Halo guitar riff to soothe my soul and whisk me across the void in final destination

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I don’t want that I want the Halo guitar riff to soothe my soul and whisk me across the void in final destination

Well, I respect your opinion about not wanting GG music. Nothing against it.

 

[Will]

Well, I respect your opinion about not wanting GG music. Nothing against it.

I’m not against GG, Sol Badguy is my most wanted FGC rn despite all my Scorpion shilling.

But nothing beats the Halo theme. Nothing.

 

[Ivander]

So recently, I learned that some modders working with an old Marvel vs Capcom 3 beta for Xbox 360 actually found assets of both Frank West and Doctor Octopus. It's no secret that Doc Oct almost made it into MvC3 as the developers for MvC3 mentioned that Doctor Octopus was almost completed for MvC3, with a completed model, moveset and theme. But he ultimately ended up scrapped because an IRL tsunami event resulted in schedules changed and because of Doc Oct suffering from some major glitches they couldn't fix in time. Really sad, especially when Marvel vs Capcom has hardly added any Spiderman characters, with only Spiderman and Venom. But still really cool to see unreleased or cut content from old games.

So big day today, was brought to the attention of the modders of an old version of VANILLA MVC3 for the 360. Well today people decided to dig in there myself included and found some assets that prove alot of theories and show alot of cut stuff 😮 Convert done by @EternalYoshi pic.twitter.com/pLlc1TvCet

— Xeno - Returns January 5th (@Xeno_TG) September 27, 2023

Yeah, not much to do with Smash speculation, but with unused/unreleased/cut content still being found in old games years after their initial datamines and whatnot, it'd be cool if we were to find more unused content in past Smash Bros. games like Melee and Brawl. And it'd be surreal if at some point, we finally find the identity of Pra_Mai.