Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheQuester]

Accidental post.
Ignore this message, woops.

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, this discussion had me remember I made a tier list discussing how safe I think each character is.

Since we got a lot of different people, I might as well post it again.

Tell me what you think.

I think the things that stand out to me is what really separates being a mainstay and just being likely safe? Mainly in how how they both share Brawl reps who have been around in every game since, yet some are seen as safer.

Also, Byleth may have been poorly received, but Three Houses was a big success. Honestly, I don't think things would have been so bad if Corrin didn't make things so much worse.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My stance on Byleth always seems to be a big point of contention. For the record I want Byleth to stay. I just don't think they will.

I think the things that stand out to me is what really separates being a mainstay and just being likely safe? Mainly in how how they both share Brawl reps who have been around in every game since, yet some are seen as safer.

Honestly, of the two Brawl characters that are in the likely safe tier, ZSS was originally in mainstay and I got talked out of it. Toon Link is only this low due to being a clone.

The rest are either characters from 4/Ultimate I feel are pretty safe and Ice Climbers and Mewtwo.

 

[EarlTamm]

My stance on Byleth always seems to be a big point of contention. For the record I want Byleth to stay. I just don't think they will.


Honestly, of the two Brawl characters that are in the likely safe tier, ZSS was originally in mainstay and I got talked out of it. Toon Link is only this low due to being a clone.

The rest are either characters from 4/Ultimate I feel are pretty safe and Ice Climbers and Mewtwo.

Same on Byleth. I can understand them being let go, but I also feel like Corrin is in more danger of that.

Zero Suit was the reason I brought up the matter of difference. I can understand why some might argue for her being on that level, but it feels weird when the other Brawl rep on that level is a clone. Sure, Zero Suit is another version of Samus, but at least she is not a clone in gameplay.

 

[Noipoi]

Byleth is definitely here to stay. Despite an iffy reveal, they've become a very popular character and Three Houses is beloved. And I say this as a certified hater.
I love Three Houses itself but I always thought Byleth was a mid protag and imo their reveal was the lamest in Smash history and that really soured me on the whole thing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

regarding Young Link, I don't think he should be cut, but he can benefit from some overhauls like Ganondorf did. definitely, a Majora's Mask Final Smash would be the bee's knees. maybe some other moves that reference MM can be added too

 

[Perkilator]

regarding Young Link, I don't think he should be cut, but he can benefit from some overhauls like Ganondorf did. definitely, a Majora's Mask Final Smash would be the bee's knees. maybe some other moves that reference MM can be added too

Honestly, that should've been the case from the start. Fierce Deity as a re-skinned Triforce Slash sounded like a no-brainer, at least.

 

[SPEN18]

If he does not bring everyone back next game, it could also be because Nintendo did not give him enough time to do so, like with Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS, if I recall correctly. What are the chances of that happening again?

The chances of someone being in the initial project plan but then cut mid-development due to time/resource constraints are, basically, 100%. This sort of thing happens all the time, especially since they're using a priority-based system where certain characters, though explicitly planned, are considered less important from the start.

I believe the biggest barrier is not resources or time, but rather third party licensing.

I am not going to understate the amount of things that can go wrong with third party licensing; it will certainly be a big factor.
But I would not advise underestimating the time/resource constraints, either. They are going to be VERY hefty trying to carry over such a huge number of vets. I am pretty much certain that some third party vet will be cut for reasons other than licensing next time; I just don't see how they bring over everyone even if licensing wasn't a factor, and of course, licensing being a factor only makes it way harder.

Maybe I am just being optimistic, but Super Mario Wonder apparently didn't have a deadline, so perhaps they will be very open to giving Sakurai a lot of time and resources?

Given the history of Nintendo wanting Smash as an evergreen anchor early in a system's lifecycle, an unrestricted dev cycle seems very unlikely. They will give him a lot of resources to succeed, because they always do, unless you mean like orders of magnitude more than before.

Makes me wonder if we'll get more 3rd party characters base game if we end up having 14 newcomers base.

The rate of third party newcomers in base games has been pretty stable. 2 uniques in Brawl and 4, only 1 unique in Ult when there were less newcomers. I would advise against expecting more than 2 third party newcomers in a given base game. Especially when so much of that part of the budget is going to go into whichever third parties are retained from Ult.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Honestly I don't really understand the idea that we could get around 5-10 cuts in the next Smash. I guess it comes from the fact that Brawl and Smash 4 each have 5 and 6 cuts respectively... but at the time they only had 25 characters and 35 characters to add respectively so that means that 20% of Melee roster was cut in Brawl and 17%ish of Brawl roster.

I mean, either A) they reuse assets which means that we'll most likely get no cuts (and yeah, Young Link is not that important and stuff, but if the assets are here why would they would throw it in the trash?). Or B) they made most things from scratch, and in that scenario I don't see how they could do 85 characters from scratch. I assume we would get around 15 cuts at least, maybe even more.

We're either getting no cuts or many cuts. I don't really see a scenario from a game development point of view to how we could end up with like 5 cuts (unless you're arguing that some third parties don't want to come back, which I personally don't see hapening because I don't see a reason that someone would accept their characters to be in Smash and suddenly change their mind for a sequel).

 

[Garteam]

The Little Links are kind of a conundrum to me. Having two child versions of Link is an obvious redundancy from the perspective of which characters to bring back, but I don't really know which one would get the axe. is the more iconic character, has a longer legacy in Smash, and the consensus seems to be he should be the one to return. However, seems to be the significantly more popular character in Ultimate and Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still two of the most popular games in the Zelda series.

 

[TheQuester]

Honestly I don't really understand the idea that we could get around 5-10 cuts in the next Smash. I guess it comes from the fact that Brawl and Smash 4 each have 5 and 6 cuts respectively... but at the time they only had 25 characters and 35 characters to add respectively so that means that 20% of Melee roster was cut in Brawl and 17%ish of Brawl roster.

I mean, either A) they reuse assets which means that we'll most likely get no cuts (and yeah, Young Link is not that important and stuff, but if the assets are here why would they would throw it in the trash?). Or B) they made most things from scratch, and in that scenario I don't see how they could do 85 characters from scratch. I assume we would get around 15 cuts at least, maybe even more.

We're either getting no cuts or many cuts. I don't really see a scenario from a game development point of view to how we could end up with like 5 cuts (unless you're arguing that some third parties don't want to come back, which I personally don't see hapening because I don't see a reason that someone would accept their characters to be in Smash and suddenly change their mind for a sequel).

A new smash from scratch it's what i'd like too see, but, have you seen how bad the reaction was with Sword and Shield when they cut Pokemon?
I can't even imagine how bad the community will turn into when 10+ characters are cut, it's going to be a mess.
This is actually the main reason i think a new game from scratch will inevitably become the black sheep of the series, he next hype cycle is going to be...rough.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Yeah stuff like this is fine and appreciated.

It's just stuff like...

"I hate X, it could have been Y" that starts to grind my gears.



Also, y'all think we're only getting 10 cuts? I'm thinking like at least 15-20.

You see im thinking three steps ahead and considering they would definitely sell veterans as DLC like Roy, Lucas and Mewtwo in 4. Making the amount of cuts sting less.

 

[Garteam]

A new smash from scratch it's what i'd like too see, but, have you seen how bad the reaction was with Sword and Shield when they cut Pokemon?
I can't even imagine how bad the community will turn into when 10+ characters are cut, it's going to be a mess.
This is actually the main reason i think a new game from scratch will inevitably become the black sheep of the series, he next hype cycle is going to be...rough.

Keep in mind that one of the big reasons that Dexit gained so much traction was that Sword and Shield were (to many) already looking to be substandard in their quality. IIRC, one of the justifications that the devs gave for cutting Pokemon from Sword and Shield were to polish the game graphically and better balance things. Making the former claim when people were freaking out over the tree was a poor choice and the latter claim didn't really pan out either, with Gen 8 OU still being relatively centralized (although who it was centralized around changed with time).

I imagine reception to the next Smash game will be largely based on the roster, but there are a lot of factors that will shape the fans' perception of that roster. Even if we get a decent number of cuts, the next Smash will still do fine so long as most of the popular faces make it back and there is a solid class of newcomers. Stuff like rollback for one-on-ones and making the game more like Melee will placate the competitive crowd but the game will still struggle if the casual crowd isn't interested in the group of characters available.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Pokemon had also had a long standing precedent of no cuts, ever. So Dexit came as a huge shock to people.

Smash Brothers has no such precedent. We all kind of see cuts coming, even if some people really don't want to admit it.

 

[Pacack]

So, just to be controversial. Here's a "roster" of characters I consider plausible for SSB6. I'm happy to defend my choices (and some omissions) but will probably drop this here and go to bed for the night.

Spoiler: For Space

Organization should be mostly self explanatory. Retro is there as a category, but I'm not convinced we'd get a retro. But I can be wrong, and if we did, I'm
pretty confident it would be one of those four.

The Pokemon Pokeball and Fire Emblem random are placeholders because those series tend to get their most recently relevant characters, and I'm not sure we know who those are.

Echo Link is "Classic Link" who would play like Link traditionally does in Smash, with a normal bomb, hookshot, and probably gale boomerang. I can imagine Sakurai feeling bad for people who felt like their version of Link was missing despite everyone supposedly being in the game. Alph is a placeholder for whatever captain you desire from Pikmin 4.

First two rows of third parties are companies that already have a character in Smash. The last one is companies that have some sort of Smash representation, but not a character. There are no third parties whose companies have no Smash Bros. presence.

 

[SPEN18]

Dropping Natl Dex shouldn't have been a surprise. 100+ new mons per gen was very clearly unsustainable.
Even as early as like gens 3 or 4, Natl Dex was just kind of a neat little post-game bonus thing and making every Pokemon appear during the main story content was never prioritized.
What was prioritized? Making lots of new Pokemon in order to differentiate the new games from the old ones without implementing dramatic gameplay changes. Dropping Natl Dex is just a natural progression of the path they chose and the norms they established for Pokemon sequels as early as gens 2-4.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pokemon had also had a long standing precedent of no cuts, ever. So Dexit came as a huge shock to people.

Not like it had never happened though. Gen 3 was a hard break from Gen 1 and 2. They didn't get back to EiH until HG/SS.


I think the hope was that dexit happened because of the shift to modern consoles, and each game would bring back more Pokemon until we got back to EiH again.

Dropping Natl Dex shouldn't have been a surprise. 100+ new mons per gen was very clearly unsustainable.

Not if they keep reusing assets. Which they pretty much have been since Go.

There's really NO excuse for Pokemon that were in Sw/Sh to not be useable in S/V.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Not like it had never happened though. Gen 3 was a hard break from Gen 1 and 2. They didn't get back to EiH until HG/SS.


I think the hope was that dexit happened because of the shift to modern consoles, and each game would bring back more Pokemon until we got back to EiH again.


Not if they keep reusing assets. Which they pretty much have been since Go.

There's really NO excuse for Pokemon that were in Sw/Sh to not be useable in S/V.

The kicker for me is that all the Pokemon are still in the data, it's mainly the characters models and animations that got removed, you can hack in Pokemon that arent in S/V, but it shows up as a Pikachu, a Pikachu that knows all the moves and abilities that the cut Pokemon should know.

It's still perfectly within their capability to have a National dex they just chose not too.

This mainly bothered me in BDSP, since something i always liked about previous Pokemon remakes is the ability to see newer Pokemon in the "Older" games. Made the world feel a bit more alive to me, but you cant do that in BDSP (Officially anyway people have long since modded the game to have all of them in there)

 

[SPEN18]

Not like it had never happened though. Gen 3 was a hard break from Gen 1 and 2.

Natl Dex was possible in Gen 3, though? Just very hard and it took them like half a dozen games plus spinoffs and mystery gift events to finally make everyone obtainable.

Of course, people only remember that it was possible in the end, and are (willfully or unwillfully) ignorant of the rest.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Natl Dex was possible in Gen 3, though? Just very hard and it took them like half a dozen games plus spinoffs and mystery gift events to finally make everyone obtainable.

Maybe. All I remeber is that I had a complete dex in Gold. And that wasn't possible in Ruby when it came out. So I fell off the series there. And didn't come back till HG.

 

[smashkirby]

I'd be open to more Ultimate DLC, but I would want a wider range of Nintendo characters than just promotional picks.

I feel the same way, though my hopes for a wider range of Nintendo characters sort of extends into the more obscure side of their catalogue.

I think you guys underrate how much Sakurai wants to and is capable of keeping the Ultimate cast together. I think cuts are possible, even drastic ones, but I think a world exists where the whole cast comes back, also.

I expect that we'll get the whole of the Nintendo cast back barring technical issues.

Sakurai doesn't think like that. Someone will be made unhappy that the lost their main after having them back in Ultimate, and he has no reason to backpedal. The point of whether you think the character is worthy or not is irrelevant. Sakurai made a very concerted effort to add back every veteran. Because to him and people who play those cut characters, it's worth it.

Not going to lie... while I'll certainly be keeping my expectations in check, I have to admit that there IS a small part of me that wants to believe that with how Ultimate contains EVERY Smash Bros. character, Sakurai will at least TRY to do his darndest to bring back everyone. He's already gone record multiple times stating that he honestly hates cutting characters, it's just that something usually gets in the way.

In regards to that whole thing about "someone WILL be disappointed about a cut", let's not forget that that's why Dr. Mario in Smash 4 WASN'T relegated to be a mere "Alph/Koopaling-styled" alt. skin for Mario. So he's very much aware that SOMEONE (i.e. me) would be disappointed about the removal of Young Link and/or Pichu.

Like, hopefully the majority (if not, ENTIRETY) of Nintendo's catalogue will return. If ANYTHING gets in the way, it'll be third-party licensing and/or limited time, and even then on the subject of third-parties, with the success of every Smash Bros. since Brawl, I'd be a bit shocked if any third-party company would be nuts enough to say no to Smash Bros. at this point, given how it's free advertising for them.

So, just to be controversial. Here's a "roster" of characters I consider plausible for SSB6. I'm happy to defend my choices (and some omissions) but will probably drop this here and go to bed for the night.

Spoiler: For Space

Organization should be mostly self explanatory. Retro is there as a category, but I'm not convinced we'd get a retro. But I can be wrong, and if we did, I'm
pretty confident it would be one of those four.

The Pokemon Pokeball and Fire Emblem random are placeholders because those series tend to get their most recently relevant characters, and I'm not sure we know who those are.

Echo Link is "Classic Link" who would play like Link traditionally does in Smash, with a normal bomb, hookshot, and probably gale boomerang. I can imagine Sakurai feeling bad for people who felt like their version of Link was missing despite everyone supposedly being in the game. Alph is a placeholder for whatever captain you desire from Pikmin 4.

First two rows of third parties are companies that already have a character in Smash. The last one is companies that have some sort of Smash representation, but not a character. There are no third parties whose companies have no Smash Bros. presence.

Wow! Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Arle, the Rhythm Heaven cast, Shantae, AND Mona? Already a "W" roster in my eyes.

If you don't mind, I WOULD like to know how you came across this roster though, if you're willing to share your reasoning, of course.

 

[Pacack]

I feel the same way, though my hopes for a wider range of Nintendo characters sort of extends into the more obscure side of their catalogue.





Not going to lie... while I'll certainly be keeping my expectations in check, I have to admit that there IS a small part of me that wants to believe that with how Ultimate contains EVERY Smash Bros. character, Sakurai will at least TRY to do his darndest to bring back everyone. He's already gone record multiple times stating that he honestly hates cutting characters, it's just that something usually gets in the way.

In regards to that whole thing about "someone WILL be disappointed about a cut", let's not forget that that's why Dr. Mario in Smash 4 WASN'T relegated to be a mere "Alph/Koopaling-styled" alt. skin for Mario. So he's very much aware that SOMEONE (i.e. me) would be disappointed about the removal of Young Link and/or Pichu.

Like, hopefully the majority (if not, ENTIRETY) of Nintendo's catalogue will return. If ANYTHING gets in the way, it'll be third-party licensing and/or limited time, and even then on the subject of third-parties, with the success of every Smash Bros. since Brawl, I'd be a bit shocked if any third-party company would be nuts enough to say no to Smash Bros. at this point, given how it's free advertising for them.



Wow! Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Arle, the Rhythm Heaven cast, Shantae, AND Mona? Already a "W" roster in my eyes.

If you don't mind, I WOULD like to know how you came across this roster though, if you're willing to share your reasoning, of course.

I'll get back to you probably tomorrow on each character's reasoning, but the general gist is just that I would consider this the pool of potential newcomers. I'm no longer in the business of guessing what particular characters will be chosen, so instead I'm just listing characters I see as options.

 

[osby]

I'd be open to more Ultimate DLC, but I would want a wider range of Nintendo characters than just promotional picks.

Ultimate had a grand total of 4 Switch characters out of 24 newcomers so I wouldn't worry about it.

Stuff like rollback for one-on-ones and making the game more like Melee will placate the competitive crowd but the game will still struggle if the casual crowd isn't interested in the group of characters available.

Yeah, that's one reason I don't see a new Smash being an appealing option for many people if you can play Ultimate on the next Nintendo console.

It's not like casual players are only interested in the roster but if there are extensive cuts, then the game needs to sell itself with mostly the newcomers - which is no easy feat when Everyone is Here and Fighter Passes combined gave us such a strong cast of fighters.

 

[Curious Villager]

The Little Links are kind of a conundrum to me. Having two child versions of Link is an obvious redundancy from the perspective of which characters to bring back, but I don't really know which one would get the axe. is the more iconic character, has a longer legacy in Smash, and the consensus seems to be he should be the one to return. However, seems to be the significantly more popular character in Ultimate and Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still two of the most popular games in the Zelda series.

I feel like Toon Link has more reason to stay than Young Link considering we already have Sheik and Ganondorf as characters that originated from Ocarina of Time (You could make a case for Majora's Mask I suppose, but Young Link himself is primarily based off his Ocarina of Time appearance, plus most of those fans seem to be rather rooting for Skull Kid to represent that game more faithfully), whereas removing Toon Link you more or less cut off the main face of Wind Waker and the rest of the Toon side of Zelda games (Which Sakurai seems to sorta put in its own separate category if things like spirits/trophies/music/stages are anything to go by)

Plus from what I've heard and seen, Toon Link seems to be the more popular one between the two in Japan and was the character they where apparently the most worried about getting cut during Smash 4, which is probably partly why he was revealed so early during that game (Before any other Zelda character besides Link even) to put those concerns to rest.

 

[fogbadge]

What I do mind is people making cut wishlists because that just feels like a jerk move.

my ears are burning

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

No single fanbase understands how frustrating cut lists are like Snake fans. To have your favorite character be on lists for literal years all for the sake of the character “not fitting”, pouring your heart and soul into telling people why he should remain due to how different he is, and then for some never confirmed reason have him actually not come back was such a gigantic let down.

The catharsis and hype I felt that they introduced the main marketing of Ultimate around the fact that, yes, Snake was finally back will forever be unmatched I figure.

Cut lists suck because back in the day it seemed like the people wanting Snake cut outweighed the real fans who wanted him back and I truly feel like that era of Brawl where people were being so unreasonably mad about Snake making it in over Mega Man or PAC-MAN or whomever else may have even swayed Nintendo’s decision to not include Snake in Smash 4. Your favorite being cut is not fun and if your favorite is Mario or Link then great you don’t have to worry about it but it is a jerk move to actively want someone else’s favorite removed.

 

[Gengar84]

No single fanbase understands how frustrating cut lists are like Snake fans. To have your favorite character be on lists for literal years all for the sake of the character “not fitting”, pouring your heart and soul into telling people why he should remain due to how different he is, and then for some never confirmed reason have him actually not come back was such a gigantic let down.

The catharsis and hype I felt that they introduced the main marketing of Ultimate around the fact that, yes, Snake was finally back will forever be unmatched I figure.

Cut lists suck because back in the day it seemed like the people wanting Snake cut outweighed the real fans who wanted him back and I truly feel like that era of Brawl where people were being so unreasonably mad about Snake making it in over Mega Man or PAC-MAN or whomever else may have even swayed Nintendo’s decision to not include Snake in Smash 4. Your favorite being cut is not fun and if your favorite is Mario or Link then great you don’t have to worry about it but it is a jerk move to actively want someone else’s favorite removed.

I want as many to stay as possible. Snake was always fun to play as and he’s a cool character so I would really prefer he stay. My only complaint is that I preferred his Brawl gameplay more. His old land mine down smash was so unique and now he basically just has Captain Falcon’s and Zelda’s which is a lot less exciting in my opinion. I also miss his mortar slide trick to his up smash.

Even though some cuts may be inevitable at some point, I’m not particularly interested in talking about them. I’ll just have to accept that when or if they happen. I find it a lot more fun to speculate about what could be added rather than subtracted. Plus there’s a bonus of giving me the excuse to talk about my favorite characters.

 

[fogbadge]

No single fanbase understands how frustrating cut lists are like Snake fans. To have your favorite character be on lists for literal years all for the sake of the character “not fitting”, pouring your heart and soul into telling people why he should remain due to how different he is, and then for some never confirmed reason have him actually not come back was such a gigantic let down.

The catharsis and hype I felt that they introduced the main marketing of Ultimate around the fact that, yes, Snake was finally back will forever be unmatched I figure.

Cut lists suck because back in the day it seemed like the people wanting Snake cut outweighed the real fans who wanted him back and I truly feel like that era of Brawl where people were being so unreasonably mad about Snake making it in over Mega Man or PAC-MAN or whomever else may have even swayed Nintendo’s decision to not include Snake in Smash 4. Your favorite being cut is not fun and if your favorite is Mario or Link then great you don’t have to worry about it but it is a jerk move to actively want someone else’s favorite removed.

so what you’re saying is a jerk move to want any character removed? Cause everyone is someone’s favourite

 

[TheQuester]

So, just to be controversial. Here's a "roster" of characters I consider plausible for SSB6. I'm happy to defend my choices (and some omissions) but will probably drop this here and go to bed for the night.

Spoiler: For Space

Organization should be mostly self explanatory. Retro is there as a category, but I'm not convinced we'd get a retro. But I can be wrong, and if we did, I'm
pretty confident it would be one of those four.

The Pokemon Pokeball and Fire Emblem random are placeholders because those series tend to get their most recently relevant characters, and I'm not sure we know who those are.

Echo Link is "Classic Link" who would play like Link traditionally does in Smash, with a normal bomb, hookshot, and probably gale boomerang. I can imagine Sakurai feeling bad for people who felt like their version of Link was missing despite everyone supposedly being in the game. Alph is a placeholder for whatever captain you desire from Pikmin 4.

First two rows of third parties are companies that already have a character in Smash. The last one is companies that have some sort of Smash representation, but not a character. There are no third parties whose companies have no Smash Bros. presence.

Interesting Roster.
I think Squid Sisters and DJ Octavio have a chance, not just Octoling imo.
Raven Beak is a character that i'm 50/50 on, he's cool but Smash doesn't have a good track record when it comes to one-off non-playable characters.
Oatchi i think it's likely, but i do wonder how he'll grab the ledges as he has no arms.
Surprised no Tales on the roster, i think Yuri's got a great shoot.


Also, on a side note, do you guys think there's any videogame 3rd party company that might be hard to play the ball with to get their characters in Smash Bros.?
I think even Tencent would be willing to play the ball with a League rep lol.
Not from game companies, I've heard people saying that getting a Undertale o Touhou rep would be difficult to negotiate, not sure how true that is, since i'm not part of those game fanbases, i think it could be some haters trying to hatekeep Undertale and Touhou so i'm curious.

 

[Gengar84]

so what you’re saying is a jerk move to want any character removed? Cause everyone is someone’s favourite

I think it kind of depends on how you express that. It’s not really a jerk move to not care about a character or not want to see them back but it can be if you say it in a demeaning way or put down anyone that likes the character. Not saying you do that but that’s how I see things. If someone constantly talks about how a character was undeserving and needs to be cut, that can be a bit rude. Personally, if I didn’t care about a character coming back, I’d just word it like “here’s the characters I’d be okay with if they didn’t return” instead of “these characters need to be cut”. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

[fogbadge]

I think it kind of depends on how you express that. It’s not really a jerk move to not care about a character or not want to see them back but it can be if you say it in a demeaning way or put down anyone that likes the character. Not saying you do that but that’s how I see things. If someone constantly talks about how a character was undeserving and needs to be cut, that can be a bit rude. Personally, if I didn’t care about a character coming back, I’d just word it like “here’s the characters I’d be okay with if they didn’t return” instead of “these characters need to be cut”. Not sure if that makes sense.

well I try not to pretend characters I want gone are anything more than bias. I also feel the whole who deserves to be in argument holds no water anymore

 

[Gengar84]

well I try not to pretend characters I want gone are anything more than bias. I also feel the whole who deserves to be in argument holds no water anymore

Same here. I never liked the deserved argument to begin with. As long as the character is fun to play and/or has a cool design, I’m more than happy to get them. I think it makes sense to weigh things a bit towards characters with important history in gaming or Nintendo consoles specifically but I wouldn’t disqualify characters that fall outside of that.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Also, on a side note, do you guys think there's any videogame 3rd party company that might be hard to play the ball with to get their characters in Smash Bros.?
I think even Tencent would be willing to play the ball with a League rep lol.
Not from game companies, I've heard people saying that getting a Undertale o Touhou rep would be difficult to negotiate, not sure how true that is, since i'm not part of those game fanbases, i think it could be some haters trying to hatekeep Undertale and Touhou so i'm curious.

Sony, i want to see Ratchet and Clank in smash but thats never happening.

 

[Gengar84]

Sony, i want to see Ratchet and Clank in smash but thats never happening.

Yeah, I want a few Sony owned characters myself. Namely Zegram from Rogue Galaxy and Monica from Dark Cloud 2 but they have even less of a chance. I feel like Aloy from Horizon could also be a lot of fun and her stage would be cool too. Who doesn’t love robot dinosaurs?

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s my interpretation of the next possible Smash roster:

Spoiler: Likely veterans

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Daisy
5. Bowser
6. Rosalina & Luma
7. Bowser Jr.
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong
10. Wario
11. Yoshi
12. King K. Rool
13. Link
14. Zelda
15. Ganondorf
16. Samus
17. Ridley
18. Kirby
19. King Dedede
20. Meta Knight
21. Fox
22. Falco
23. Pikachu
24. Charizard
25. Mewtwo
26. Lucario
27. Greninja
28. Captain Falcon
29. Ice Climbers
30. Marth
31. Ike
32. Robin
33. Mr. Game & Watch
34. Pit
35. Palutena
36. Olimar
37. Villager
38. Mii Fighters
39. Shulk
40. Pyra / Mythra
41. Inkling
42. Sonic
43. Bayonetta
44. Joker
45. Mega Man
46. Ryu & Ken
47. PAC-MAN
48. Kazuya
49. Cloud
50. Banjo & Kazooie
51. Terry
52. Steve

Spoiler: Debatable veterans

1. Dr. Mario
2. Piranha Plant
3. Sheik
4. Young Link
5. Toon Link
6. Dark Samus
7. Zero Suit Samus
8. Wolf
9. Jigglypuff
10. Pichu
11. The rest of Pokémon Trainer’s team
12. Incineroar
13. Ness
14. Lucas
15. Roy
16. Chrom
17. Lucina
18. Corrin
19. Byleth
20. Dark Pit
21. R.O.B.
22. Isabelle
23. Wii Fit Trainer
24. Little Mac
25. Duck Hunt
26. Min Min
27. Snake
28. Simon
29. Richter
30. Sephiroth
31. Hero
32. Sora

Spoiler: Possible newcomers

1. Toad
2. Waluigi
3. Geno
4. Pauline
5. Dixie Kong
6. Any Zelda newcomer
7. Raven Beak
8. Sylux
9. Bandana Waddle Dee
10. Magolor
11. Krystal
12. The newest Pokémon
13. Porky
14. Black Shadow
15. Lyn
16. Alear
17. Whatever FE character is currently relevant
18. Any Kid Icarus newcomer
19. Mona
20. Ashley
21. Any Pikmin newcomer
22. Any Animal Crossing newcomer
23. Noah & Mio
24. Elma
25. Any Splatoon newcomer
26. A Nintendo newcomer from the Switch era
27. A retro character
28. A character who previously went unused in older Smash games

I’m not gonna get into 3rd party characters because that’s its own can of worms

 

[Gengar84]

Here’s my interpretation of the next possible Smash roster:

Spoiler: Likely veterans

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Daisy
5. Bowser
6. Rosalina & Luma
7. Bowser Jr.
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong
10. Wario
11. Yoshi
12. King K. Rool
13. Link
14. Zelda
15. Ganondorf
16. Samus
17. Ridley
18. Kirby
19. King Dedede
20. Meta Knight
21. Fox
22. Falco
23. Pikachu
24. Charizard
25. Mewtwo
26. Lucario
27. Greninja
28. Captain Falcon
29. Ice Climbers
30. Marth
31. Ike
32. Robin
33. Mr. Game & Watch
34. Pit
35. Palutena
36. Olimar
37. Villager
38. Mii Fighters
39. Shulk
40. Pyra / Mythra
41. Inkling
42. Sonic
43. Bayonetta
44. Joker
45. Mega Man
46. Ryu & Ken
47. PAC-MAN
48. Kazuya
49. Cloud
50. Banjo & Kazooie
51. Terry
52. Steve

Spoiler: Debatable veterans

1. Dr. Mario
2. Piranha Plant
3. Sheik
4. Young Link
5. Toon Link
6. Dark Samus
7. Zero Suit Samus
8. Wolf
9. Jigglypuff
10. Pichu
11. The rest of Pokémon Trainer’s team
12. Incineroar
13. Ness
14. Lucas
15. Roy
16. Chrom
17. Lucina
18. Corrin
19. Byleth
20. Dark Pit
21. R.O.B.
22. Isabelle
23. Wii Fit Trainer
24. Little Mac
25. Duck Hunt
26. Min Min
27. Snake
28. Simon
29. Richter
30. Sephiroth
31. Hero
32. Sora

Spoiler: Possible newcomers

1. Toad
2. Waluigi
3. Geno
4. Pauline
5. Dixie Kong
6. Any Zelda newcomer
7. Raven Beak
8. Sylux
9. Bandana Waddle Dee
10. Magolor
11. Krystal
12. The newest Pokémon
13. Porky
14. Black Shadow
15. Lyn
16. Alear
17. Whatever FE character is currently relevant
18. Any Kid Icarus newcomer
19. Mona
20. Ashley
21. Any Pikmin newcomer
22. Any Animal Crossing newcomer
23. Noah & Mio
24. Elma
25. Any Splatoon newcomer
26. A Nintendo newcomer from the Switch era
27. A retro character
28. A character who previously went unused in older Smash games

I’m not gonna get into 3rd party characters because that’s its own can of worms

Nice list. I’d be particularly interested in the Zelda newcomer, Raven Beak, Dixie Kong, Toad, Noah & Mio, Elma, and a Pokémon (depending on which one) from these. I think Officer Howard from Astral Chain would be another possible cool choice for first party (which falls under your Switch era character).

regarding Young Link, I don't think he should be cut, but he can benefit from some overhauls like Ganondorf did. definitely, a Majora's Mask Final Smash would be the bee's knees. maybe some other moves that reference MM can be added too

Yeah, the masks would be a great way to get some playable representation of several of Zelda’s iconic races like the Zoras and Gorons without them needing any of them to make it in as their own character.

 

[Stratos]

Somehow this seems impossible, but others believe that characters from PlayStation franchises can come as newcomers in future games of the Super Smash Bros. series, while there were already the PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale and the Playstation All-Stars Island. But some are still hoping that they will come, obviously or perhaps because Microsoft, despite having its own series of Xbox console, has sent its own character to the Super Smash Bros Ultimate, but Microsoft's games have also been released for Nintendo console. So it is perhaps the reason that some people believe that the characters of the PlayStation franchises will come as newcomers in the Super Smash Bros..

 

[CannonStreak]

About Charles Martinet...

Here’s a special video message from Shigeru Miyamoto and Charles Martinet regarding the change of Mario’s voice actor, announced on 8/21. pic.twitter.com/4mOpD2Cx3a

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 7, 2023

Special message is here.

 

[Gengar84]

Somehow this seems impossible, but others believe that characters from PlayStation franchises can come as newcomers in future games of the Super Smash Bros. series, while there were already the PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale and the Playstation All-Stars Island. But some are still hoping that they will come, obviously or perhaps because Microsoft, despite having its own series of Xbox console, has sent its own character to the Super Smash Bros Ultimate, but Microsoft's games have also been released for Nintendo console. So it is perhaps the reason that some people believe that the characters of the PlayStation franchises will come as newcomers in the Super Smash Bros..

I never say anything’s impossible for Smash. Who would have thought we’d get two Microsoft characters before now? I don’t think Sony is as likely to want to work with Nintendo but I wouldn’t rule it out completely.

 

[TheQuester]

Sony, i want to see Ratchet and Clank in smash but thats never happening.

Yeah, i think Sony characters are off-limits.
A shame because Ratchet and Clank have near infinite moveset potential, we won't see Clank Zapper combos....a shame.

I also wonder if indie characters will ever become playable or would Nintendo only want characters from videogame companies, god knows.
I feel like a indie rep would be a good way to put a popular character like Cuphead, Zagreus, Sans, Reimu, Shantae or Shovel Knight for cheap, since they'll be easier to license than characters from videogame companies i assume.
Of course, i think only popular indies have a chance to be in Smash (even as mii costume/spirits), i doubt they're going to allow unknown indies.