Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

plus some fun new characters

assuming you find echo fighters fun because adding unique newcomers would be impossible outside of the DLC pass full of contractual Squenix obligations

 

[Schnee117]

Their main focus for a new game should be making sure it doesn't have a ridiculous amount of input delay and ensuring the online isn't complete and utter dog****.

 

[TheQuester]

You can already see it getting heated at times here; I hope we can move past it and renormalize cuts discussion. Cuts have always been a part of Smash sequels and Smash speculation. Even in Melee when we didn't actually end up with any cuts, there was the plan of replacing Ness with Lucas. And even for Ultimate, Sakurai has expressed how EiH almost didn't happen despite them going all-in on it, and cuts were an active part of speculation prior to the EiH reveal.

I think the problem is that people are expecting 30 cuts or something exagerated, when it most likely will be around the 1-5 range., like usual.
My guess is that most veterans will get their models ported from Ultimate, i expect some characters to get new moves and adjustements.
I think the new engine, stages, modes, mechanics and adventure mode ala brawl combined is what could potentially lead some low priority characters to get cut, if they don't have enough time for them.
I think we won't get new character models unless it's a reboot i don't think they'll build the game for stratch anymore for regular sequels, which imo it's not going to happen any time soon after the success of Ultimate, i think they will go the Pokemon route and reuse the models from now on, with texture or animation adjustements to fit whatever artstyle the games goes for.

NonSpecificGuy Correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't a port also have troubles with the licenses?
Like i personally would be disapointed if it was just a Ultimate Deluxe, if you do Everyone is Here again just make...a Ultimate 2 instead of giving us the same exact game with extra 2 characters, it just seems lazy to me, idk.

 

[Zerp]

Not going to lie I'd rather not get a FP3 and/or FP4 even if I were to receive them for free. And especially not if it were to replace the next game lol. For whatever reason the DLC characters have always been significantly less exciting for me. And quite frankly I detest the whole DLC "hype" cycle. It somehow always results in even more endless bickering than the actual base games did. Would really rather just get another game even if it meant a lot of cuts lol. Not to mention I'd like to see the gameplay change again, so that staying the same would be disappointing as well.

Speaking of DLC, if that rumor on the new Smash Bros. Ultimate thing was true, who would be heading it, because I can’t imagine it being Sakurai for…reasons.

I'm sorry but can you clarify which rumor you're talking about? I have no idea which one you're speaking of, there's always like five bajillion rumors.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

assuming you find echo fighters fun because adding unique newcomers would be impossible outside of the DLC pass full of contractual Squenix obligations

I can feel the salt over how much Square got in DLC.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I can feel the salt over how much Square got in DLC.

No, I'm just aware of why Sephiroth got in. And that your only unique newcomers in an Ultimate port would be Slime, Tifa and Roxas.

 

[CannonStreak]

Hello people, I really don't pass by this thread anymore, but I wanted to share some Smash speculation from a really close Discord partner.

It's a lot of info doh, so I'm gonna send a short summary first and then all the evidence they have found.

The summary is that practically with most of the major announcements or showcases at Directs and such, there tends to be a restock of related amiibo... and It seems some upcoming unnanounced restocks could be pointing to something Smash-related getting shown really soon if all this speculation turns out correct.

With that said, here's the evidence:

Spoiler

TLDR:

• Smash is getting 2 waves of restocks, restocks has always connected to a announcement or release of a game, DLC, or content update.
• Sora is meant to be getting a Amiibo revealed soon, new Amiibo announcements has, also, 100% always connected to a new release or announcement.
• Sora's Amiibo code isn't in the game, despite them perfectly being able to 2 years ago, which implies if it's happening, they held off, which means it probably was for more Ultimate, so Nintendo could have new Smash Amiibo to sell during it.
• The Gamecube Controller got restocked in Japan, last time that happened was with Vol. 2's reveal (3 weeks before)
• The restocks aren't happening in America yet, since NoA is the global marketing center for Nintendo, that probably means they're holding off for a announcement.
• Square Enix isn't marketing the SMRPG remake on social media, the last time they did that for a direct announcement was with DQ11S when it was revealed in the Feb 2019 direct, they only started marketing it a day before Hero's reveal.
• Before the restocks, Papa heard that "Something more may be happening with Smash Ultimate", the timeframe of the report the source heard would of been June 2023.
• Next gen isn't launching until Sep/Oct 2024, they wouldn't reveal a "Deluxe" or 6 a year out, that's more marketing than what Ultimate got.
• The restocks being 2 waves implies it'll also be released, since restocks in waves has only happened with releases, the only thing we could possibly get revealed and release that quickly is more DLC
• There isn't a bundle for Vol. 2 on the eShop
• The MK8DX DLC is ending in September, meaning Nintendo is going to need to have new DLC waves to fill in that void
• The German date for the restocks going on sale, Aug 28th, has past with no announcement from Nintendo.
• Smash site updated, removing the accessories tab.
• The restocks nor Sora Amiibo can be for NL23 (FAQ)

That's all I wanted to share, keep an eye throught September as maybe interesting stuff could happen (I for sure have that granted, because LEGO Marvel CMF 2 is coming out, yay!)

See ya'll another time.

This is Reddit. I don't know how good this is not, but I am going to spoiler this for potential cursing, if that is okay.

Spoiler: Potential Cursing

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Do you all think this has to do with the rumor Jotadé posted earlier, or is it the same thing?

Thanks to @cashregister9 for finding this.

This is what I was talking about. Zerp

 

[Speed Weed]

Speaking of DLC, if that rumor on the new Smash Bros. Ultimate thing was true, who would be heading it, because I can’t imagine it being Sakurai for…reasons.

it's me. I will make the next Smash Bros

 

[Hadokeyblade]

No, I'm just aware of why Sephiroth got in. And that your only unique newcomers in an Ultimate port would be Slime, Tifa and Roxas.

Dont threaten me with a good time.

 

[CannonStreak]

it's me. I will make the next Smash Bros

LOL Good one! This me me not mocking you, by the way, that really was funny.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

NonSpecificGuy Correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't a port also have troubles with the licenses?
Like i personally would be disapointed if it was just a Ultimate Deluxe, if you do Everyone is Here again just make...a Ultimate 2 instead of giving us the same exact game with extra 2 characters?

Its always easier to rerelease a game with still active licenses than it is to get all new licenses.

 

[CannonStreak]

Zerp Here is one more thing about that rumor. Also spoilering it due to potential spoilers.

Spoiler: Potential Cursing

As always, take it with a grain of salt.

You don't want to be salty with too much salt or you'd be living in the salt mines for sure!

 

[SPEN18]

I think the problem is that people are expecting 30 cuts or something exagerated, when it most likely will be around the 1-5 range., like usual.

How could it possibly be only 1-5? They were saying EiH would probably be impossible to do again, or things along those lines, when the base game was released. That is, before they went and added a dozen more DLC characters, many with complicated licensing matters, which only make it exponentially harder to bring everyone back again.
Also, it's worth repeating that they always do asset reuse to the extent that they are able to and that makes sense. Doesn't mean bringing over vets into a new game is easy. Especially when you consider that a lot of the current models which had heavy asset reuse from 4 are going to be over a decade old by the time of the next Smash, which by the way will be on hardware that far surpasses the Switch's 2013-level graphical tech.

 

[Schnee117]

I think the problem is that people are expecting 30 cuts or something exagerated, when it most likely will be around the 1-5 range., like usual.

Nah the cuts are definitely gonna be on the larger side.
You have to account for the sheer size of the current roster and Sakurai being on record as saying making Ultimate's base roster was already a tough ask. Then you need to consider that they're gonna have newcomers in the mix too. Continuous, unending growth simply isn't a realistic prospect and cuts are something every other fighting game franchise deals with.

Some of y'all are just gonna have to deal with your characters getting Sean'd or Hsu Hao'd whilst others are on rotation/DLC bait like Ermac and Akuma

 

[TheQuester]

How could it possibly be only 1-5? They were saying EiH would probably be impossible to do again, or things along those lines, when the base game was released. That is, before they went and added a dozen more DLC characters, many with complicated licensing matters, which only make it exponentially harder to bring everyone back again.
Also, it's worth repeating that they always do asset reuse to the extent that they are able to and that makes sense. Doesn't mean bringing over vets into a new game is easy. Especially when you consider that a lot of the current models which had heavy asset reuse from 4 are going to be over a decade old by the time of the next Smash, which by the way will be on hardware that far surpasses the Switch's 2013-level graphical tech.

Nah the cuts are definitely gonna be on the larger side.
You have to account for the sheer size of the current roster and Sakurai being on record as saying making Ultimate's base roster was already a tough ask. Then you need to consider that they're gonna have newcomers in the mix too. Continuous, unending growth simply isn't a realistic prospect and cuts are something every other fighting game franchise deals with.

Some of y'all are just gonna have to deal with your characters getting Sean'd or Hsu Hao'd whilst others are on rotation/DLC bait like Ermac and Akuma

Fair point.
Even porting the character models from Ultimate will still cause problems with balancing the roster with the newcomers, new mechanics, modes....etc.
I was looking at alternatives for Ultimate Deluxe, bc the idea just seems a bit boring to me (No offense for people who want it of course, just a opinion).

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I've been giving it some thought, and I think Sidon could potentially be a good newcomer for the Zelda series in the next Smash. Popular character with a few memes of his own, appears in multiple reasonably recent releases, brings a brand new moveset to the table with his ability to manipulate water coupled with his trident and his fishy physique, plus he's a new character for the franchise which we haven't technically had since, like, Brawl with Toon Link, who was sort of a psudeo-reimagining of Young Link back in Melee anyway. I just think he'd be neat

 

[Zerp]

This is what I was talking about. Zerp

Zerp Here is one more thing about that rumor. Also spoilering it due to potential spoilers.

Spoiler: Potential Cursing

As always, take it with a grain of salt.

You don't want to be salty with too much salt or you'd be living in the salt mines for sure!

Ah, thank you.

 

[fogbadge]

No, I'm just aware of why Sephiroth got in. And that your only unique newcomers in an Ultimate port would be Slime, Tifa and Roxas.

don't be daft. roxas would be an echo

 

[CannonStreak]

Ah, thank you.

No problem. I'm happy to be at your service.

 

[TheQuester]

I've been giving it some thought, and I think Sidon could potentially be a good newcomer for the Zelda series in the next Smash. Popular character with a few memes of his own, appears in multiple reasonably recent releases, brings a brand new moveset to the table with his ability to manipulate water coupled with his trident and his fishy physique, plus he's a new character for the franchise which we haven't technically had since, like, Brawl with Toon Link, who was sort of a psudeo-reimagining of Young Link back in Melee anyway. I just think he'd be neat

I think Sidon and Squid Sisters (or DJ Octavio) are one of the most sleep on potential newcomers for the next game.
They would make perfect sense to me as base game newcomers, they're relatively new characters from new, popular nintendo games.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

How could it possibly be only 1-5? They were saying EiH would probably be impossible to do again, or things along those lines, when the base game was released. That is, before they went and added a dozen more DLC characters, many with complicated licensing matters, which only make it exponentially harder to bring everyone back again.
Also, it's worth repeating that they always do asset reuse to the extent that they are able to and that makes sense. Doesn't mean bringing over vets into a new game is easy. Especially when you consider that a lot of the current models which had heavy asset reuse from 4 are going to be over a decade old by the time of the next Smash, which by the way will be on hardware that far surpasses the Switch's 2013-level graphical tech.

I think it'll be closer to 10 cuts.

I just dont think they'll get rid of tons and tons of characters, maybe comparable to smash 4 where yeah there were cuts but the roster still feels fine.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Not going to lie I'd rather not get a FP3 and/or FP4 even if I were to receive them for free. And especially not if it were to replace the next game lol. For whatever reason the DLC characters have always been significantly less exciting for me. And quite frankly I detest the whole DLC "hype" cycle. It somehow always results in even more endless bickering than the actual base games did. Would really rather just get another game even if it meant a lot of cuts lol. Not to mention I'd like to see the gameplay change again, so that staying the same would be disappointing as well.

I know what my reason for not craving a new DLC batch is, but I'm not sure if it matches yours. To put it lightly, the DLC we've been getting for Smash relies way too much on building hype. This has significantly warped the criteria of what is expected of Smash within speculation. As a result, if and when a new batch of Smash drops a fighter more off the grid in terms of hype, the crowd goes that much more berserk. Which basically means there's no winning here.
It's a problem I don't even need to display, really. We've gone through enough of this particular phenomenon in the past, and if FP3+ somehow happens, it'll bear repeating. It's a pain, since DLC can and has made improvements in certain cases, even some of Smash's, but with how the last Fighters Pass concluded, I just don't have confidence it will end with excitement. Especially for me, since I just lost all patience with Ultimate for a number of agitations.
Unless something DRASTICALLY changes, I just couldn't be bothered with new DLC for Ultimate. I almost daresay at this point that anything related to expanding on Ultimate will be a no-go.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Some of y'all are just gonna have to deal with your characters getting Sean'd or Hsu Hao'd whilst others are on rotation/DLC bait like Ermac and Akuma

On that note Sora is 100% going in the latter category.

I just dont believe he would get cut but i also dont believe for one minute that he would be allowed as a base game character.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m sure a Sora Amiibo is happening but that doesn’t mean it has come along with anything else and it honestly seems unlikely right now that it will.

Reminder that 3 new Amiibo got listed around the end of 2016 with people thinking it was 3 new characters for a possible next Smash only for it to be revealed it was “P2” versions of Corrin, Bayonetta, and Cloud.

 

[TheQuester]

On that note Sora is 100% going in the latter category.

I just dont believe he would get cut but i also dont believe for one minute that he would be allowed as a base game character.

Curious, why not? I think Disney would allow him as a base game character.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just want to see if all the amiibo restocking leads to something.

 

[Garteam]

it's me. I will make the next Smash Bros

Super Smash Bros x Sega All-Stars let's goooooo

 

[Opossum]

I mean, frankly speaking I don't see the next game's base roster exceeding 55 characters, ± any echo fighters/Doc. Basically Smash 4 size.

That, I think, is the most reasonable amount going forward when it comes to fully new titles.

 

[Nekoo]

I love this part where we all claim that next game will have a smaller roster or "not more than one or two characters" only to have like +10 and DLC characters.
Fav moments of time

 

[SPEN18]

I think it'll be closer to 10 cuts.

I just dont think they'll get rid of tons and tons of characters, maybe comparable to smash 4 where yeah there were cuts but the roster still feels fine.

Even with 10 cuts, the math doesn't look good. That's still over 70 uniques without newcomers, which would again be more than the base Ultimate roster that they already said they probably wouldn't be able to completely retain.

 

[Garteam]

I'd be open to more Ultimate DLC, but I would want a wider range of Nintendo characters than just promotional picks.

 

[Nekoo]

If we do get ANYTHING for Smash Ultimate, I hope it's that damn Sora Amiibo.
And that, when he comes in, since they need to add his data in game, that they pay some Intern to do one final row of buff and nerfs. Especially a certain funny block guy who needs to be burried down the deep of the sea with the longest nerf patch since C-21 on FighterZ.

Actually.
Just make a FighterZ patch, like the recent one.
Make everyone stupid busted and make no sense.

 

[SPEN18]

I mean, frankly speaking I don't see the next game's base roster exceeding 55 characters, ± any echo fighters/Doc. Basically Smash 4 size.

That, I think, is the most reasonable amount going forward when it comes to fully new titles.

Personally I am slightly more optimistic as I think 60 or so is possible. This is perhaps a little influenced by me underestimating how big Smash 4 would be back in the day.
That said, I totally understand sticking with the 55 number and I wouldn't be surprised if that was what we got. Especially with expectations on the roster size generally running rampant around the fandom these days.
I keep forgetting that base 4 actually had less than 50 uniques if we're excluding the characters who would be later designated as Echoes. Also it's really easy for people to look at Ult's numberings and think, "oh, looks like Smash 4 had over 60 characters," when no, it didn't; you have to exclude all the cut vets and DLC characters to get back to the true base roster number.
In any case I agree that Smash 4, not Ult, is what we should be primarily looking at in terms of baseline.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'd be open to more Ultimate DLC, but I would want a wider range of Nintendo characters than just promotional picks.

I feel like the only way it wouldnt come across as promotional picks is if the game comes out later into the consoles lifecycle so the newer Nintendo character would have already had some time in the spotlight.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I mean, frankly speaking I don't see the next game's base roster exceeding 55 characters, ± any echo fighters/Doc. Basically Smash 4 size.

That, I think, is the most reasonable amount going forward when it comes to fully new titles.

I think this is a fair number, but my question is how are they even going to balance newcomers/veterans. I mean, 55 is a fairly big number, but if we have like 12 newcomers (which would be less than Brawl and Smash 4), that means only 43 veterans, which means almost half of the veterans are cut.

Then again, personally I wouldn't be opposed to having less newcomers similar to Ultimate (base game) if it means that we can get moveset overhaul, but even with only 5 newcomers you end up with a roster with more than 30 cuts.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Big brain move, do what ultimate did and have very little newcomers in base game to incentivise people to buy DLC for new characters.

 

[Pacack]

I think you guys underrate how much Sakurai wants to and is capable of keeping the Ultimate cast together. I think cuts are possible, even drastic ones, but I think a world exists where the whole cast comes back, also.

 

[Nekoo]

I think you guys underrated how much Sakurai wants to and is capable of keeping the Ultimate cast together. I think cuts are possible, even drastic ones, but I also think a world exists where the whole cast comes back, also.

That's basically it.
The only time we had cuts, they were because of drastic reasons, and most of the time we even find proof that they tried to bring them back /leftover data.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think you guys underrated how much Sakurai wants to and is capable of keeping the Ultimate cast together. I think cuts are possible, even drastic ones, but I also think a world exists where the whole cast comes back, also.

If he does not bring everyone back next game, it could also be because Nintendo did not give him enough time to do so, like with Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS, if I recall correctly. What are the chances of that happening again?

 

[Pacack]

If he does not bring everyone back next game, it could also be because Nintendo did not give him enough time to do so, like with Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS, if I recall correctly. What are the chances of that happening again?

I believe the biggest barrier is not resources or time, but rather third party licensing.