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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

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I don't think 2B chances are that high tbh. At this point her game is 6 years old, it might be close to 10 by the time we'll get the next Smash, and even if we got a new Nier I doubt she would even be in it. Automata still have a huge cult following which might help her, but at the end of the day she's most likely a one off character from a game that is getting older, and she doesn't have the same fan request as Geno.

Personally I think the most likely Square rep are Geno (because of fan request), Clive Rosfield or a Slime (or maybe DQ12 hero if he's different enough to have is own moveset but I highly doubt it). I don't think Square is going to have rep from new franchises like Octopath, Nier, Mana or Star ocean.
I honestly, i think you're underselling 2B popularity, i think she's one of the most likely SE characters, probably second to Geno which is probably the most likely.
I don't see why it matters if her game will be close to 10 years old by the next smash, her game will still have a cult following.

While a FF16 rep would be interesting, the game is not in Nintendo consoles so i don't see them picking Clive it over Tifa, Squall or Zidane, which have nintendo apareances, yes, imo, having a nintendo apareance is very important, i don't think not having a Nintendo apareance completely disqualifies a character, but i wouldn't count in them joining if they don't have one.
That's why i think stuff like League of Legends is possible even if not very likely, but i wouldn't count in let's say Genshin, World of Warcraft or Halo getting a rep, because they have no nintendo apareances.


Moving on to something a bit broader, what classic arcade characters would you guys like to see as playable in Smash? Personally, I’m pining for Namco’s Valkyrie.
Valkyrie would be cool too see.
I do think Space Invaders is up there too, it's one of the most iconic games of all time after all, it might be complicated to make a moveset for them, but it's not like that's gonna stop Sakurai, right?
Maybe Double Dragon, but i think they'll add Guilty Gear first.


Of all the Nintendo characters that are called retro and want to come as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series, I wonder what moves they'll put in Ayumi Tachibana, but I guess maybe they'll give her moves that are based off of other similar games.
I've seen a lot of movesets were she uses a magnifying glass to burn her oponents as a special move, it would be a pretty unique move.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I would also like Isaac Clarke from the Dead Space franchise to come as a newcomer, even though I've only played one game from that franchise and couldn't finish it and that was Dead Space: Extraction.
Wouldnt be the weirdest crossover ol' Isaac found himself in.
 

Gengar84

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I think Isaac from Golden Sun has a decent shoot next game.
I don't think all of the 1st party newcomers of the next game base game will be Switch reps.
I agree. I think Smash has done a pretty good job overall including characters from across their whole history and not just limiting it to what’s new they want to promote. Sure, they also include plenty of new characters and franchises but I think a lot of fans focus a bit too narrowly on that and often discount anything that came before. Adding older characters can also help build the support to revitalize a dormant franchise and give Nintendo consoles more variety.
 

Wonder Smash

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Except for the part where they aren't actually localizing it. They're just dumping the JA rom. :p
Darn it!

Well, at least I got the retro collection. lol

I am paraphrasing Sakurai's quotes. We have no statement on the matter regarding why Pit was initially selected, only statements about reimagining him (around 13:07) for a modern era, imagining how to "modernize him in one single leap." He has never stated that he chose Pit to be a retro in any source that I can find. While Source Gaming compares Pit to Ice Climbers, their only source on that matter is the one I just referenced.

When asked if his 3DS shooter project was always going to be Kid Icarus:
That goes with what I was saying; that was his way of making Pit more detailed since he hasn't had a game in decades. His intention wasn't to make him NOT NES. It was more of a design strategy.

I think it's just as reasonable an assumption to say that he wanted to revitalize the franchise and added Pit in part to achieve that end, rather than just because he wanted to add another retro.
But it says it right there that his intention was to make a third-person shooter and he turned that game into Kid Icarus Uprising after seeing positive fan reaction in Brawl. Reviving the series clearly wasn't in his plans at the time he designed Pit for Brawl.

On Duck Hunt, you are simply incorrect. On Smash 4's Duck Hunt's project proposal slides he says

If there were any doubt who else he considers "surprise characters," when asked about Piranha Plant "How does it feel to be able to still surprise fans even so many years later? Was that one of the intents of the inclusion of this character?"

The line about "some main characters from some not widely known franchises" is why I don't think characters like Sukapon, Takamaru, and the like are going to be chosen moving forward, also.
In the parts on the other characters, all he talks about is the moveset. He never talks about why he added those characters. Plus, if you notice Duck Hunt's moveset, it does have some surprise elements to it, seeing how most of the attacks happen "off-screen".

Also, I think you misunderstood Sakurai's whole point there. He was talking about changing up from always having hero/heroine-type characters in the rosters for the sake of balance. That's why he brought up characters like Mr. Game & Watch, ROB, and Duck Hunt because they're not "heroes". Piranha Plant is able to get away with that because he too is not a hero but he has recognition. In the end, it's just for good balance.

Sukapon would actually fit the "surprise" slot or "retro" slot, as he could very well help with that balance that Sakurai likes to bring to the roster. He never said a character has to be on Pirahna Plant's level of recognition in order to get in, nor did he say that a character can't be a retro pick too.

We can't predict Sakurai's actions like we know for sure but there are some people who clearly want Sukapon in Smash, so let's not ruin it for them.
 
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Moving on to something a bit broader, what classic arcade characters would you guys like to see as playable in Smash? Personally, I’m pining for Namco’s Valkyrie.
Frogger is my number one choice for this. Incredibly iconic character from a beloved game that could have a fun evasive, hit-and-run, slippery style of combat.

But there are a lot of fun options that could work that I'd also like to see. Konami also has TwinBee and Oolong from Yie Ar Kung Fu. Taito has the likes of Bub and Bob from Bubble Bobble, Otto from Elevator Action, and Pocky and Rocky from Kiki Kaikai. SEGA has Opa-Opa and Akira. Capcom has Mike Haggar, Captain Commando, and Chun-Li. SNK has Nakaruru and the Metal Slug crew. Don-Chan is a good pick for Bandai-Namco. Even Peter Pepper could be fun. And I have a soft spot for Tapper if we bring Midway into it. For Tecmo, I'd also like to see Dana from Solomon's Key, which would give us a cool terraforming mage. And then there's Dirk the Daring from Dragon's Lair to round it out, though I'd definitely want him specifically to keep a 2D animated look if possible.

If we get technical, a lot of the early NES Black Box games were originally meant to be arcade releases, which is why so many of them either appeared in the VS line prior to their NES releases (Ice Climber, Balloon Fight, Wrecking Crew, etc) or virtually simultaneously (Mach Rider, etc). So going by that, Mach Rider and Foreman Spike would also be fun Nintendo picks.

Also shout out to Sky Skipper, though he'd definitely work better as an Assist Trophy. But it'd be cool to see the game represented in Smash in some form.
 

Speed Weed

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Moving on to something a bit broader, what classic arcade characters would you guys like to see as playable in Smash? Personally, I’m pining for Namco’s Valkyrie.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is absolutely ridiculous that we don't have any Taito content in Smash. In my opinion they are hands down the most foundational Japanese company to not have a character. Bub and Bob are the right move IMO.

Beyond that, I do feel like SEGA is sorely missing an arcade or at least arcade-associated character. Gimme Akira or Arle or Harrier or Opa-Opa, hell, someone like Ryo's not an arcade character but he could still bring arcade content with him and represent Yu Suzuki/AM2's body of work. I just want someone from that sphere.

I'd really enjoy seeing another old-school Namco character like Gil or Valkyrie as well, or Nakoruru.
This is a big pipedream, but I have a huge soft spot for Data East's output so I'd love a rep from them. Gimme Karnov dammit

I'd be really interested in seeing some classic shmup characters, too. Some crazy **** like Twinbee and Tako, or Shinra from Ikaruga, or reps for Cave and Psikyo. I just really like arcade games
 

SPEN18

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It's about time we saw what Camelot is working on
Assuming their next game isn't for the next hardware it would be in play for a Sept Direct
 

CannonStreak

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Okay, maybe I was wrong.

Avalanche is not the game we are talking about.

Nor is Star Stacker.

Whatever this game is that was in the NSO video...

Well, in regards to this, I was wrong. It is Kirby Star Stacker, just not the Game Boy version. I did not read until there was an SNES version.

Wait is that a Kirby version of puyo and weren't we just talking about puyo o.o;
But to reanswer this, there was a Kirby version of Puyo Puyo, just not Star Stacker.
 

CannonStreak

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Sucumbio

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I still haven't played either one lol. I'm not sure I ever will... But I will play the **** out of a WW remaster! Please Nintendo get off yer butts and release this soon!
 

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Speaking of DLC, if that rumor on the new Smash Bros. Ultimate thing was true, who would be heading it, because I can’t imagine it being Sakurai for…reasons.
Sakurai himself like 3 weeks ago said he couldn’t see a future Smash without him so I’m a bit confused as the …reasons you think he won’t be back.
 

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I honestly, i think you're underselling 2B popularity, i think she's one of the most likely SE characters, probably second to Geno which is probably the most likely.
I don't see why it matters if her game will be close to 10 years old by the next smash, her game will still have a cult following.

While a FF16 rep would be interesting, the game is not in Nintendo consoles so i don't see them picking Clive it over Tifa, Squall or Zidane, which have nintendo apareances, yes, imo, having a nintendo apareance is very important, i don't think not having a Nintendo apareance completely disqualifies a character, but i wouldn't count in them joining if they don't have one.
That's why i think stuff like League of Legends is possible even if not very likely, but i wouldn't count in let's say Genshin, World of Warcraft or Halo getting a rep, because they have no nintendo apareances.
I think you might be underestimating how recency is important for Smash. If you look at the third party we have in Smash, the only one that got in with no games near the project plan are Simon and Richter and Banjo, the first 2 got in because of huge fan request and Richter got in because he was an easy clone to make. I'm not saying 2B chances are 0% but if you loook at past third party it seems that it could hurt her chances.

As for Clive, I don't really agree with you. First, we literally have Joker who had no Nintendo appearances aside from PQ2 (and please don't bring the argument that Joker was in Smash because of that game...). But like, even if you want to argue that he's not the most likely FF rep, I don't think that Squall and Zidane of all thing are the most likely. I guess Tifa you could make a case for her, but really I don't see Squall or Zidane getting in before Terra, Tidus or Y'shtola if they're going for a "less relevant but popular" FF character.


I would also like Isaac Clarke from the Dead Space franchise to come as a newcomer, even though I've only played one game from that franchise and couldn't finish it and that was Dead Space: Extraction.
Never played Dead space, but I think it could be fun. That being said my first pick for a EA rep would be Shepard from Mass effect.

Beyond that, I do feel like SEGA is sorely missing an arcade or at least arcade-associated character. Gimme Akira or Arle or Harrier or Opa-Opa, hell, someone like Ryo's not an arcade character but he could still bring arcade content with him and represent Yu Suzuki/AM2's body of work. I just want someone from that sphere.
Aside from Puyo puyo, even as someone who really like this era of Sega I think most of Sega arcade stuff is fine to have smaller representation and not playable. I think Akira is fine as an assist trophy, and Opa-Opa could be an AT too. I think what could be cool is Sega having the SNK music treatment and next Smash we get a bunch of music from Space harrier, Outrun, Super hang-on etc. The only one we have right now is the After burner theme, thanks to Bayonetta remix.
 

Sucumbio

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Wait, which rumor? The one I read said "something special" coming in the next Direct for Smash fans but that it was from a source, Papa Geneos, who's track record isn't bad but not great maybe 50/50 which is more like guessing that knowing.

Also i wonder if Nintendo creates fake leaks to either out leakers or spread misinformation to throw people off track or just to generate buzz...
 

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Aside from Puyo puyo, even as someone who really like this era of Sega I think most of Sega arcade stuff is fine to have smaller representation and not playable. I think Akira is fine as an assist trophy, and Opa-Opa could be an AT too. I think what could be cool is Sega having the SNK music treatment and next Smash we get a bunch of music from Space harrier, Outrun, Super hang-on etc. The only one we have right now is the After burner theme, thanks to Bayonetta remix.
Eh fair, I'm just a big mark for that era of SEGA and would like to see it represented more lol
 

CannonStreak

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Sakurai himself like 3 weeks ago said he couldn’t see a future Smash without him so I’m a bit confused as the …reasons you think he won’t be back.
I just think that he is still on a break. And if the gap between the next Smash (if it is not Deluxe or Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC) is in the far future from Ultimate, he could be taking a long break.
 

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Honestly I don’t see much purpose in an Ultimate Deluxe from a business perspective.

The game is already on the switch. And the next console is probably backwards compatible, so you can still play Ultimate there.
Maybe you could give consumers the option to upgrade to Deluxe if they already have Ultimate on their Switch?
 

Noipoi

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Maybe you could give consumers the option to upgrade to Deluxe if they already have Ultimate on their Switch?
Okay. But why?

It’s the same game as Ultimate but with the dlc packaged in, right? If you already have Ult, chances are you already have the dlc too. If not, the option to buy it never went anywhere.

The only thing you’d get out of it would be some new characters. But if that’s the case, why not just add new characters to Ultimate without the hassle of making a “new” game? Nothing’s stopping them from making another Fighters Pass if that’s what they really wanted to do.

It just seems like certain parts of the fanbase coming up with reasons to get new Smash content. Which is kinda silly imo, because we’re definitely getting another Smash in the next few years
:nifty:
 

SPEN18

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I just can't see them saying to the vast majority of their existing player base, "you know what, you don't have to pay us full price for Smash this gen."
 

CannonStreak

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Honestly I don’t see much purpose in an Ultimate Deluxe from a business perspective.

The game is already on the switch. And the next console is probably backwards compatible, so you can still play Ultimate there.
I just said Deluxe as an example of what could happen or not. Based on past posts of mine on this thread, there is no need for a Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe, especially since Mario Kart 8 Deluxe was made under different circumstances.
 

Geno Boost

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Phantasy Star? That would be a cool sleeper pic.
I guess they'll rep the classic series rather than the MMO.

Also, How guys are you feeling about the next SE rep?
Tifa? Geno? 2B? Tressa? Neku?
Well here is who i think are currently the top 5 most likely square-enix newcomers for next smash game

1. Geno: SMRPG got remake recently and Sakurai considered adding him as playable before and still have high demand since brawl and also have gotten mii costume
2. Zack Fair as Cloud echo fighter: has alot of fans and would be an easy addition for base game and his game got a remake recently
3. 2B: her creator wants her to be included in Smash and that's a big advantage and Nier popularity is increasing alongside her fan request
4. Space Invaders or any Taito rep: Space Invaders is currently the 6th highest grossing video game franchise even more so than final fantasy https://res.cloudinary.com/tmxfoc/i...st-grossing-video-game-franchises-5.png?_i=AA and its also the grandfather of video game and Taito is currently the only missing piece of square-enix in smash which the company consist of Squaresoft and Enix and Taito however its a slept on pick that if its get added it would be due to its legacy in the gaming industry rather than fan request
5. Crono: Chrono series is somehow still active and Crono still got demand not high however a remake of Chrono Trigger would increase his chances as his game is still memorable to many to this day
 
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Honestly I don’t see much purpose in an Ultimate Deluxe from a business perspective.

The game is already on the switch. And the next console is probably backwards compatible, so you can still play Ultimate there.
I'm not sure why people think bringing everyone back automatically means a port.
I mean....Ultimate brought everyone back from Smash 4 and Ultimate ended up begin a new game, so same thing could happen there if everyone is here returns.
I'm personally in the camp that next game will just be a regular smash game like Brawl and Smash 4 with some cuts, i don't think we'll get a reboot at all, i think it's too soon after Ultimate success, a port is still possible because of the fan demand, but i think Sakurai might opt for a new game, that's my opinion of course.


I think you might be underestimating how recency is important for Smash. If you look at the third party we have in Smash, the only one that got in with no games near the project plan are Simon and Richter and Banjo, the first 2 got in because of huge fan request and Richter got in because he was an easy clone to make. I'm not saying 2B chances are 0% but if you loook at past third party it seems that it could hurt her chances.

Fair point.
But honestly i can't think of much other SE characters that are likely except Geno and Tifa, so calling 2B the second most likely SE rep doesn't mean she's a lock or anything near it, a TWEWY, OT and BD rep would be cool but idt they're very likely either, even if they have recent games.


As for Clive, I don't really agree with you. First, we literally have Joker who had no Nintendo appearances aside from PQ2 (and please don't bring the argument that Joker was in Smash because of that game...). But like, even if you want to argue that he's not the most likely FF rep, I don't think that Squall and Zidane of all thing are the most likely. I guess Tifa you could make a case for her, but really I don't see Squall or Zidane getting in before Terra, Tidus or Y'shtola if they're going for a "less relevant but popular" FF character.
I have to disagree here.
Joker didn't get in Smash because of PQ2 obviously, but i feel he might have been skiped over if he didn't have a apareance in a Nintendo console.
All the 3rd party characters in Smash have at least one appareance in a Nintendo console, so i think it's fair to asume a character that has no appareances in a Nintendo console is unlikely, Nintendo probably wants to add characters from games that are avaible in at least one of their consoles (a plus if it's on the switch).
Clive just doesn't make sense to add from a Nintendo prespective, neither does Y'shtola, yes the games are popular, but why would Nintendo add them over let's say Tifa? or even Tidus like you said that are in Nintendo consoles, so people who only own a switch can play those games.
Yes, they might be more relevant, but FF16 and FF14 just have no Nintendo contection and there's no reason to asume Nintendo will be interested in them.
If not, then we would get World of Warcraft, Elden Ring and Genshin Impact reps next game, if relevancy and populariy is what matters.
 

Gengar84

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Ah yes, paying 60 bucks for a game I already own so I can pay 50 bucks for a handful of new characters.

View attachment 377339

Sounds fun.
I’m guessing you wouldn’t have to rebuy the game in that scenario. Assuming Switch 2 is backwards compatible, there’s no reason they couldn’t just keep adding to Ultimate.

Fair point.
But honestly i can't think of much other SE characters that are likely except Geno and Tifa, so calling 2B the second most likely SE rep doesn't mean she's a lock or anything near it, a TWEWY, OT and BD rep would be cool but idt they're very likely either, even if they have recent games.
I feel like Crono has a decent chance as well. Chrono Trigger is still a beloved classic JRPG to this day and Chrono Cross has been getting a bit of attention lately with a mobile game crossover and enhanced port on modern consoles. I think Magus, while less likely than Crono, isn’t entirely impossible either. He was the only character who was at least planned to be in all three games and has a pretty big role in the overall plot of the series. While Guile broke off into his own character in Cross, later ports of Trigger have hinted that the two could still be the same character. My preferred Chrono character is Magus with a Guile alt with a moveset that pulls from both characters.

I think Octopath’s biggest obstacle is the lack of any one main character since the games put equal focus on all eight characters. I think there are two possible options here. The first is to just pick one character (my favorite being H’aanit from the first game in both design and potential moveset). The second is to go for another Bowser Jr. style character with a moveset that pulls from all eight main classes. Every character can be any class so it works canonically. The only real issue is some of the characters have different body types and frames than others. Bravely Default can probably make even better use of this approach since the characters are all roughly the same size.
 
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Yeah, they only way I could see the DLC thing being true is if they just decided to do another 2 seasons for $60 instead of making a new Smash in preparation for the next console but that seems more unlikely than even an Ultimate Deluxe to be honest. New games sell more than new DLC. It’s just how it’s always been.
 

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Oh that’s gonna be a lovely topic of debate once the next game is announced
You can already see it getting heated at times here; I hope we can move past it and renormalize cuts discussion. Cuts have always been a part of Smash sequels and Smash speculation. Even in Melee when we didn't actually end up with any cuts, there was the plan of replacing Ness with Lucas. And even for Ultimate, Sakurai has expressed how EiH almost didn't happen despite them going all-in on it, and cuts were an active part of speculation prior to the EiH reveal.
 

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I imagine the next game being very mechanically similar to Ultimate, and do think Sakurai would really want to keep the whole roster together. (I don't know if he will succeed, but I at least believe he will try.)

But I do think the new system would provide the opportunity for significantly better graphics for a new game, which is where I imagine a lot of the development time would come from, and is what would justify it being a new game.
 
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Assuming Switch 2 is backwards compatible, there’s no reason they couldn’t just keep adding to Ultimate.
Because they might not wanna have to pay the licensing fees for everyone to continue adding content.
Because they want to add new content that would be out of the budget of DLC.
Or just because they aren't as attached to Ultimate as the fanbase is.
 
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I'm not sure why people think bringing everyone back automatically means a port.
I mean....Ultimate brought everyone back from Smash 4 and Ultimate ended up begin a new game, so same thing could happen there if everyone is here returns.
I'm personally in the camp that next game will just be a regular smash game like Brawl and Smash 4 with some cuts, i don't think we'll get a reboot at all, i think it's too soon after Ultimate success, a port is still possible because of the fan demand, but i think Sakurai might opt for a new game, that's my opinion of course.
It’s simply because of how improbable it is for everyone to come back WITHOUT it being a port. With a port you’ll get all of Ultimate plus some fun new characters and stages, some new DLC that’s not available on the previous systems version for some reason despite it just being a port, and that’s essentially it.

On the flip side a brand new game without everyone on a console that’s Backwards Compatible with the version that DOES have everyone might make Ultimate just as appealing as a new entry, though FOMO and hype definitely go a long way.

The only way they can do the best of both worlds is to port Ultimate name it differently, this is a necessity for branding purposes, and put what isessentially a full game budget into the port a la Bowser’s Fury. They’d have to add new modes, all the stages, new stages, new characters, all the old characters, overhaul the graphics for Ultimate, and on top of all of that continue making DLC for an extended period to keep people invested.

It simply feels nearly impossible to just get the IP they already have BACK let alone all of them back on top of everything else. I’m not going to say it’ll happen but I DO believe if anyone could do it it’s Sakurai. It’s just a matter of “is it worth it?”.
 
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