Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CannonStreak]

With this SMRPG remake and all, whenever the next Smash gets announced it is going to be a very long cycle explaining how Geno is still very unlikely due to being a third party one-off side character...

Forgive me, but can you please explain more on that? I am curious to know.

 

[SPEN18]

Forgive me, but can you please explain more on that? I am curious to know.

I'm basically saying that many Geno fans continually overestimate his chances

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm basically saying that many Geno fans continually overestimate his chances

Oh, that is true. I have reasonable expectations for him, and I know he does have a chance of not getting in...

Though those Geno fans will probably be overhyped and, as you said, overestimate his chances of getting in like there's no tomorrow.

 

[SPEN18]

Oh, that is true. I have reasonable expectations for him, and I know he does have a chance of not getting in...

Though those Geno fans will probably be overhyped and, as you said, overestimate his chances of getting in like there's no tomorrow.

To be clear, I don't mean to accuse anybody of being obnoxious for rooting for their character

I was just lamenting making the same arguments over and over again every time Geno comes up, but that's my problem not theirs so I should have just not said anything on that, my bad

 

[CannonStreak]

To be clear, I don't mean to accuse anybody of being obnoxious for rooting for their character

I was just lamenting making the same arguments over and over again every time Geno comes up, but that's my problem not theirs so I should have just not said anything on that, my bad

Ah, don't worry. I am 100% percent sure you're good.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sukapon is finally international.

He can now join the “Japan-Only No More” Club and hang out with the other retro Nintendo characters like Lip, Takamaru, and Ayumi.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I don't believe retro slots are a thing, and even if they were, he's too niche compared to the other options. Even if we were to get a Japan-exclusive character it would be Takamaru. Sakurai has gone on record that the scope of the game is getting to the point that he needs to talk to Nintendo about the sustainability of the franchise moving forward, and I don't believe he's as prone to spend his team's resources on a pick that niche at this point. Even the most recent surprise characters like Piranha Plant and Duck Hunt are widely recognizable and arguably video game icons in their own ways. As Smash has become a Hall of Fame for video game's greats, I see less and less room for obscure and forgotten Nintendo characters getting the spotlight.

I'd love to be wrong. I adore Sukapon. But I expect the next Smash game to prioritize bringing back every character and have a select few new characters that are notable omissions.

But now that his game is being localized, he's no longer a Japan-exclusive character anymore and if fans outside of Japan like the character enough, this could lead to more fan request for him to be in the next Smash.

Also, I still think retro slots are a thing. They were just skipped for Ultimate. But I think Sukapon would make for a solid retro character.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sukapon is finally international.

He can now join the “Japan-Only No More” Club and hang out with the other retro Nintendo characters like Lip, Takamaru, and Ayumi.

Also, it turns out licensed games CAN come to NSO. What a time to be alive...

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Phantasy Star? That would be a cool sleeper pic.
I guess they'll rep the classic series rather than the MMO.

Also, How guys are you feeling about the next SE rep?
Tifa? Geno? 2B? Tressa? Neku?

I don't think 2B chances are that high tbh. At this point her game is 6 years old, it might be close to 10 by the time we'll get the next Smash, and even if we got a new Nier I doubt she would even be in it. Automata still have a huge cult following which might help her, but at the end of the day she's most likely a one off character from a game that is getting older, and she doesn't have the same fan request as Geno.

Personally I think the most likely Square rep are Geno (because of fan request), Clive Rosfield or a Slime (or maybe DQ12 hero if he's different enough to have is own moveset but I highly doubt it). I don't think Square is going to have rep from new franchises like Octopath, Nier, Mana or Star ocean.

I don't believe retro slots are a thing, and even if they were, he's too niche compared to the other options. Even if we were to get a Japan-exclusive character it would be Takamaru. Sakurai has gone on record that the scope of the game is getting to the point that he needs to talk to Nintendo about the sustainability of the franchise moving forward, and I don't believe he's as prone to spend his team's resources on a pick that niche at this point. Even the most recent surprise characters like Piranha Plant and Duck Hunt are widely recognizable and arguably video game icons in their own ways. As Smash has become a Hall of Fame for video game's greats, I see less and less room for obscure and forgotten Nintendo characters getting the spotlight.

I'd love to be wrong. I adore Sukapon. But I expect the next Smash game to prioritize bringing back every character and have a select few new characters that are notable omissions.

Yeah Takamaru is probably up there as the next retro rep, but I think Ayumi Tachibana might be a possibility because we also know that Sakurai wanted her and she now have the remake. To be fair the remake was not really popular, but still it's better than nothing I guess.

 

[Sucumbio]

Speaking of MP4, who is the big bad do we think? Sylux? (I didn't play Hunters so my affinity for the character is lacking.)

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Yeah Geno is definitely going to be talked about at least.

That said... Unless we get Everyone is Here 2, I'm not sure how ANY Square newcomer is going to get in over Cloud, Hero and Sephiroth. Its really hard to predict if the Square vets are even going to return, let alone newcomers.

I just hope Cloud stays at least.

I think Hero has the highest chance of returning, that series is easier to license than Final fantasy.

 

[Perkilator]

Moving on to something a bit broader, what classic arcade characters would you guys like to see as playable in Smash? Personally, I’m pining for Namco’s Valkyrie.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Speaking of MP4, who is the big bad do we think? Sylux? (I didn't play Hunters so my affinity for the character is lacking.)

If Sylux finally gets a starring role after almost twenty years...

I still won't believe it. Sylux is a lie.

 

[Nekoo]

Don't make me tap the sign again.

Square-Enix and Nintendo are in a pure love-love relationship that hasn't been seen since the NES/SNES
No one from them will get cut unless it's Nintendo's decision to reduce the roster.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think Hero has the highest chance of returning, that series is easier to license than Final fantasy.

Heck, wasn't the biggest issue with Dragon Quest the composer? Because IRL stuff means it might be even easier to license now...

 

[Pacack]

Also, I still think retro slots are a thing. They were just skipped for Ultimate. But I think Sukapon would make for a solid retro character.

Yeah Takamaru is probably up there as the next retro rep, but I think Ayumi Tachibana might be a possibility because we also know that Sakurai wanted her and she now have the remake. To be fair the remake was not really popular, but still it's better than nothing I guess.

I've explained before how all of the statements Sakurai has made would indicate that retro reps are not a thing before. But to keep it short.

The concept of a retro rep has always been an exclusively smash speculation thing. Sakurai only ever said that he added Ice Climbers to represent the NES era, and has never made any indication whatsoever that he ever set aside a slot for "retro" characters after Melee. He indicated when adding Pit in Brawl that part of the appeal was that it could revive Kid Icarus, but he probably was already flirting with the idea of doing Kid Icarus Uprising at that point too.

We have no reason to believe that there will be a "retro" rep again. Even if we did, it's not clear what a "retro" would qualify as in this day and age, and we have no reason to believe he would choose a character to represent the NES era again, instead of randomly deciding he wants an arcade or Gameboy or SNES character instead.

He has indicated that he sometimes adds characters that are outside of peoples' expectations, and cited Piranha Plant, Duck Hunt, ROB, and Mr. Game & Watch as examples of surprising characters, but even then indicated that he doesn't put too much emphasis on the surprise, and considers how characters that go against peoples' expectations have positives that the typical major protagonists and antagonists might not. All of the surprise characters have merit unto themselves beyond just being surprising.

 

[Nekoo]

Heck, wasn't the biggest issue with Dragon Quest the composer? Because IRL stuff means it might be even easier to license now...

Nope. There's no issue with the Dragon Quest composer.
The only """"Issue"""" being that he has Music rights to the orchestral rendition of the OST, which is why we always get MIDI or lower qualities everytime DQ **** appears.

It's also something that is common with Square-Enix which leaves part of the musical rights to most of the composers.

Which, yeah, that's great, and honestly good for them.
But on the other side, it's why getting music from them is/was harder, because you don't just deal with one party, but Square-Enix AND the music holder/composer.

 

[Sucumbio]

Moving on to something a bit broader, what classic arcade characters would you guys like to see as playable in Smash? Personally, I’m pining for Namco’s Valkyrie.

Frogger and Q-Bert and umm Dig Dug ohh and Centipede!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Phantasy Star? That would be a cool sleeper pic.
I guess they'll rep the classic series rather than the MMO.

Also, How guys are you feeling about the next SE rep?
Tifa? Geno? 2B? Tressa? Neku?

Tressa… is she from Octopath? Name sounds familiar

that being said, I WANT MY SON NEKU

 

[Arcadenik]

Also, it turns out licensed games CAN come to NSO. What a time to be alive...

GoldenEye 007 is a licensed game too… but yes, still great.”

Nintendo needs to start adding Disney games, Looney Tunes games, Batman games, Simpsons games, WWF/WCW games, and LJN games to Switch Online.

 

[chocolatejr9]

GoldenEye 007 is a licensed game too… but yes, still great.”

Nintendo needs to start adding Disney games, Looney Tunes games, Batman games, Simpsons games, and LJN games to Switch Online.

I feel the fact that I forgot about that says quite a bit about how that whole thing got handled. One moment, it was a big deal. The next... who's even talking about it?

 

[Sucumbio]

Tressa… is she from Octopath? Name sounds familiar

that being said, I WANT MY SON NEKU

She's the best every time she steals she says Thank You! in the sweetest voice.

 

[Pacack]

Moving on to something a bit broader, what classic arcade characters would you guys like to see as playable in Smash? Personally, I’m pining for Namco’s Valkyrie.

Putting aside their chances, I would love to see Dig Dug, Mappy, Frogger, or Q-Bert. From Nintendo, Sheriff or Popeye would be cool.

I also would adore a Space Invaders assist trophy, and am mad it didn't happen, as Square Enix is now the parent company of Taito, who owns the rights. I'd adore something from Asteroids, but given that the rights are ultimately held by checks Wikipedia AT&T now, that's not gonna happen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A lot of the old guard is coming back.

It makes me happy.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

GoldenEye 007 is a licensed game too… but yes, still great.”

Nintendo needs to start adding Disney games, Looney Tunes games, Batman games, Simpsons games, WWF/WCW games, and LJN games to Switch Online.

Imagine if they decided to drop the Crazy castle series on NSO. That'd be weird.

 

[Arcadenik]

Putting aside their chances, I would love to see Dig Dug, Mappy, Frogger, or Q-Bert. From Nintendo, Sheriff or Popeye would be cool.

I also would adore a Space Invaders assist trophy, and am mad it didn't happen, as Square Enix is now the parent company of Taito, who owns the rights. I'd adore something from Asteroids, but given that the rights are ultimately held by checks Wikipedia AT&T now, that's not gonna happen.

Nintendo: Space Invaders? We have Space Invaders at home.

Space Invaders at home: Space Fever.

 

[Ivander]

I feel the fact that I forgot about that says quite a bit about how that whole thing got handled. One moment, it was a big deal. The next... who's even talking about it?

I mean, Goldeneye was a good game, so it was understandable why we sort of look at it as an exception when most licensed games tend to not be good.

With Quest for Camelot, it's a game based on a movie that also got mixed reception, by a company who had a notable history of not so good games, including the infamous Superman 64. So it's like, how did this game in particular get in over a bunch of other GB games and even licensed games?

 

[Pacack]

Nintendo: Space Invaders? We have Space Invaders at home.

Space Invaders at home: Space Fever.

I'd adore that, if only to continue in the legacy of the Color TV Game 15 assist trophy. Which is Definitely Not Pong™

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Tressa… is she from Octopath? Name sounds familiar

that being said, I WANT MY SON NEKU

NEKU GANG REPRESENT

THE WORLD BETTER NOT END BEFORE HE GETS INTO A SMASH GAME

 

[Arcadenik]

I'd adore that, if only to continue in the legacy of the Color TV Game 15 assist trophy. Which is Definitely Not Pong™

In that case, they could also add Monkey Magic as Assist Trophy. It’s definitely not Breakout.

 

[SPEN18]

Speaking of MP4, who is the big bad do we think? Sylux? (I didn't play Hunters so my affinity for the character is lacking.)

Sylux def has the potential to be an awesome villain.

But, yeah, he's been on hiatus so long. And given all the dev troubles with MP4, maybe they've even changed up their original plan for the story so who's to say what his actual role in the game will be.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I've explained before how all of the statements Sakurai has made would indicate that retro reps are not a thing before. But to keep it short.

The concept of a retro rep has always been an exclusively smash speculation thing. Sakurai only ever said that he added Ice Climbers to represent the NES era, and has never made any indication whatsoever that he ever set aside a slot for "retro" characters after Melee. He indicated when adding Pit in Brawl that part of the appeal was that it could revive Kid Icarus, but he probably was already flirting with the idea of doing Kid Icarus Uprising at that point too.

We have no reason to believe that there will be a "retro" rep again. Even if we did, it's not clear what a "retro" would qualify as in this day and age, and we have no reason to believe he would choose a character to represent the NES era again, instead of randomly deciding he wants an arcade or Gameboy or SNES character instead.

He has indicated that he sometimes adds characters that are outside of peoples' expectations, and cited Piranha Plant, Duck Hunt, ROB, and Mr. Game & Watch as examples of surprising characters, but even then indicated that he doesn't put too much emphasis on the surprise, and considers how characters that go against peoples' expectations have positives that the typical major protagonists and antagonists might not. All of the surprise characters have merit unto themselves beyond just being surprising.

The thing is, after adding Ice Climbers, Sakurai still went on to add Pit and Duck Hunt, more characters that came straight from the NES era just like them. Whether his intention was to have them represent the NES era or not is debatable but the fact that he added them means that it's definitely not out of the possibility that he could add more of those characters again.

Also, keep in mind, Sakurai never made a distinction between surprise and retro characters. Duck Hunt is undeniably a retro character. The only "surprise" is element was that he was unexpected but Sakurai never said that a surprise character can't be a retro character. If anything, him being a classic retro character is probably what makes him a surprise character.

 

[Pacack]

The thing is, after adding Ice Climbers, Sakurai still went on to add Pit and Duck Hunt, more characters that came straight from the NES era just like them. Whether his intention was to have them represent the NES era or not is debatable but the fact that he added them means that it's definitely not out of the possibility that he could add more of those characters again.

Pit was added because Sakurai wanted to envision how Pit would look if, like the Legend of Zelda, the Kid Icarus series evolved over time to reflect our modern design sensibilities. He thought it was a neat idea to redesign the character, and apparently was charmed enough with the Kid Icarus series that he wanted to see if he could revive it by putting Pit in Smash and doing a revival game.

In other words, Pit was not chosen to represent the NES era at all. Sakurai went out of his way to make Pit less of an NES character. He totally redesigned him, and didn't even really try to keep Pit's gameplay in Brawl referential to the original Kid Icarus, outside of the animation for using the hammer. He was explicitly going out of his way to revive the series; to make Kid Icarus a modern franchise, rather than a retro one, was his entire goal.

I do not think it is possible to argue that Sakurai intended to use Pit to represent the NES era (as was explicitly the stated goal of the Ice Climbers' inclusion) when considering both his actions and his actual statements on Pit's inclusion.

As for Duck Hunt, they were explicitly described as the "surprise" character of Smash 4 in Sakurai's project pitch slides. He clarified that he considered Duck Hunt to be in the same grouping as Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B. While Duck Hunt is a one-off NES game, and I understand why people interpret them as a retro character, I feel like people misunderstand the significance of Duck Hunt's inclusion on some level. Duck Hunt's series in Smash is sometimes actually said to be the Light Gun series, which I find extremely significant.

Nintendo has a very, very long history with light gun products. They released their first line of Light Gun toys (Kôsenjû SP) for the home in 1970, with several other products releasing through the decade, including the first Duck Hunt in 1976, an electromechanical toy predating the NES game by 8 years. In 1973, they used similar technology for a light gun game known as the Laser Clay Shooting System. Nintendo rented out a bunch of bowling alleys (which had been deserted because of a recession) and turned them into a sort of arcade where players would spend some money to shoot at clay pigeons (projected on a screen) with a rifle that featured a mechanism that determined whether the shot "hit" the light. They also developed a Wild Gunman arcade game in 1974 that plays very much like the NES counterpart. (As an aside, Nintendo also produced a Wild Gunman toy in 1972 with no electronic components. This makes it the oldest series represented in Smash Bros. to my knowledge.)

All of these products, as well as the NES games, are what Duck Hunt references in its moveset. That's why they have the Wild Gunman and Clay Pigeon special moves. Because the NES games were actually the last in a long family of games that helped saved Nintendo from bankruptcy in the 70s.

Perhaps even more interesting than that is Nintendo's involvement with Magnavox. The Magnavox Odyssey, the first home video game console, released in the United States in 1972 and has a very interesting, albeit poorly documented, history with Nintendo. See, Magnavox decided that it wanted to bundle a Light Gun with the Magnavox Odyssey, but didn't have anyone to partner with to make the guns. Fortunately, when they looked around, they found a Japanese company that was currently manufacturing light gun products. Magnavox contacted Nintendo and Nintendo agreed to produce the Light Gun for the system. It looks nearly identical to the Kôsenjû SP rifle externally, except that it includes a cord that connects it to the console. On the inside however, it totally reversed the mechanism for detecting light. Instead of shooting light out as a laser, the screen went blank except for a white screen, which could be detected by a sensor in the gun. This is how the NES Zapper works, as well. Records are spotty, but it seems like the Magnavox Odyssey was released without any modifications in Japan, as they used the same NTSC formatting for their TVs at the time that the North American market did. This may or may not have been in 1975, it's not terribly clear.

But, regardless, Nintendo shortly thereafter began working on their own home video game consoles, the Color TV Game series, and eventually went on to release their own home console which was bundled with a light gun. Their early work with the first home video game console producer absolutely influenced Nintendo getting into the home video game market at all. That history is, I'm sure, why Duck Hunt is in Smash Bros.

After all, I only fell down this rabbit hole in the first place because one of the in-game tips mentions the first Duck Hunt, which released in 1976.

Duck Hunt's Origins

Duck Hunt was released on the NES in North America in 1985, but did you know Nintendo released another toy in Japan with the same title in the '70s?

apologies for the essay, I just think this is too cool

 

[Wonder Smash]

Pit was added because Sakurai wanted to envision how Pit would look if, like the Legend of Zelda, the Kid Icarus series evolved over time to reflect our modern design sensibilities. He thought it was a neat idea to redesign the character, and apparently was charmed enough with the Kid Icarus series that he wanted to see if he could revive it by putting Pit in Smash and doing a revival game.

In other words, Pit was not chosen to represent the NES era at all. Sakurai went out of his way to make Pit less of an NES character. He totally redesigned him, and didn't even really try to keep Pit's gameplay in Brawl referential to the original Kid Icarus, outside of the animation for using the hammer. He was explicitly going out of his way to revive the series; to make Kid Icarus a modern franchise, rather than a retro one, was his entire goal.

I do not think it is possible to argue that Sakurai intended to use Pit to represent the NES era (as was explicitly the stated goal of the Ice Climbers' inclusion) when considering both his actions and his actual statements on Pit's inclusion.

As for Duck Hunt, they were explicitly described as the "surprise" character of Smash 4 in Sakurai's project pitch slides. He clarified that he considered Duck Hunt to be in the same grouping as Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B. While Duck Hunt is a one-off NES game, and I understand why people interpret them as a retro character, I feel like people misunderstand the significance of Duck Hunt's inclusion on some level. Duck Hunt's series in Smash is sometimes actually said to be the Light Gun series, which I find extremely significant.

The intention back then in Brawl was to make the characters as detailed as they could. Sakurai likely compared Kid Icarus to other Nintendo games and felt that Zelda's style fits it more than something like Earthbound, for example. It's not that Sakurai went out of his way to make Pit less like an NES character but rather, a style that makes the most detailed. He wasn't intending on reviving Kid Icarus at point (that came later after he was going to make a third-person shooter).

Of course, that's still different from the reason behind adding Pit in the first place. However, in the end, Pit was an NES character at that time

As for Duck Hunt, there's a good chance that Sakurai have just been talking about his moveset, as his moveset is full of surprise attacks. And while he did mention them as characters outside of people's expectations like Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B, he never called them surprise characters either. It's probably just a misunderstanding.

Nintendo has a very, very long history with light gun products. They released their first line of Light Gun toys (Kôsenjû SP) for the home in 1970, with several other products releasing through the decade, including the first Duck Hunt in 1976, an electromechanical toy predating the NES game by 8 years. In 1973, they used similar technology for a light gun game known as the Laser Clay Shooting System. Nintendo rented out a bunch of bowling alleys (which had been deserted because of a recession) and turned them into a sort of arcade where players would spend some money to shoot at clay pigeons (projected on a screen) with a rifle that featured a mechanism that determined whether the shot "hit" the light. They also developed a Wild Gunman arcade game in 1974 that plays very much like the NES counterpart. (As an aside, Nintendo also produced a Wild Gunman toy in 1972 with no electronic components. This makes it the oldest series represented in Smash Bros. to my knowledge.)

All of these products, as well as the NES games, are what Duck Hunt references in its moveset. That's why they have the Wild Gunman and Clay Pigeon special moves. Because the NES games were actually the last in a long family of games that helped saved Nintendo from bankruptcy in the 70s.

Perhaps even more interesting than that is Nintendo's involvement with Magnavox. The Magnavox Odyssey, the first home video game console, released in the United States in 1972 and has a very interesting, albeit poorly documented, history with Nintendo. See, Magnavox decided that it wanted to bundle a Light Gun with the Magnavox Odyssey, but didn't have anyone to partner with to make the guns. Fortunately, when they looked around, they found a Japanese company that was currently manufacturing light gun products. Magnavox contacted Nintendo and Nintendo agreed to produce the Light Gun for the system. It looks nearly identical to the Kôsenjû SP rifle externally, except that it includes a cord that connects it to the console. On the inside however, it totally reversed the mechanism for detecting light. Instead of shooting light out as a laser, the screen went blank except for a white screen, which could be detected by a sensor in the gun. This is how the NES Zapper works, as well. Records are spotty, but it seems like the Magnavox Odyssey was released without any modifications in Japan, as they used the same NTSC formatting for their TVs at the time that the North American market did. This may or may not have been in 1975, it's not terribly clear.

But, regardless, Nintendo shortly thereafter began working on their own home video game consoles, the Color TV Game series, and eventually went on to release their own home console which was bundled with a light gun. Their early work with the first home video game console producer absolutely influenced Nintendo getting into the home video game market at all. That history is, I'm sure, why Duck Hunt is in Smash Bros.

After all, I only fell down this rabbit hole in the first place because one of the in-game tips mentions the first Duck Hunt, which released in 1976.


apologies for the essay, I just think this is too cool

Don't worry. It's all good.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Joker got in because everyone and their mom was talking about Persona 5.

I can't wait for "That bear you **** in Baldur's Gate 3!" in Smash 6.

Is Hatsune Miku eligible for Smash Bros.?

Japan-heavy month.

But now that his game is being localized, he's no longer a Japan-exclusive character anymore and if fans outside of Japan like the character enough, this could lead to more fan request for him to be in the next Smash.

Except for the part where they aren't actually localizing it. They're just dumping the JA rom.

 

[Pacack]

The intention back then in Brawl was to make the characters as detailed as they could. Sakurai likely compared Kid Icarus to other Nintendo games and felt that Zelda's style fits it more than something like Earthbound, for example. It's not that Sakurai went out of his way to make Pit less like an NES character but rather, a style that makes the most detailed. He wasn't intending on reviving Kid Icarus at point (that came later after he was going to make a third-person shooter).

Of course, that's still different from the reason behind adding Pit in the first place. However, in the end, Pit was an NES character at that time

As for Duck Hunt, there's a good chance that Sakurai have just been talking about his moveset, as his moveset is full of surprise attacks. And while he did mention them as characters outside of people's expectations like Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B, he never called them surprise characters either. It's probably just a misunderstanding.



Don't worry. It's all good.

I am paraphrasing Sakurai's quotes. We have no statement on the matter regarding why Pit was initially selected, only statements about reimagining him (around 13:07) for a modern era, imagining how to "modernize him in one single leap." He has never stated that he chose Pit to be a retro in any source that I can find. While Source Gaming compares Pit to Ice Climbers, their only source on that matter is the one I just referenced.

When asked if his 3DS shooter project was always going to be Kid Icarus:

The very first plan was to have a shooting game with both air and ground battles. So the same rules as what we have now. And along side that, I was thinking maybe we could revive a franchise that had been out of the spotlight, considering our experience in making Smash Bros. and the love that users were showing towards the character. When we combined these two ideas we ended up with a new Kid Icarus game with the angel Pit who is only able to fly for 5 minutes. We had already brought Pit back in Smash Bros. Brawl so this idea was easily adopted by everyone.

I think it's just as reasonable an assumption to say that he wanted to revitalize the franchise and added Pit in part to achieve that end, rather than just because he wanted to add another retro.

On Duck Hunt, you are simply incorrect. On Smash 4's Duck Hunt's project proposal slides he says

...the game and character enjoy surprising notoriety. Duck Hunt's moveset will also incorporate references to other games in the light gun series. They will be this game's surprise character.

If there were any doubt who else he considers "surprise characters," when asked about Piranha Plant "How does it feel to be able to still surprise fans even so many years later? Was that one of the intents of the inclusion of this character?"

I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well.

The line about "some main characters from some not widely known franchises" is why I don't think characters like Sukapon, Takamaru, and the like are going to be chosen moving forward, also.

 

[Speed Weed]

sukapon gang we move

 

[fogbadge]

i see everyone's spent the night overestimating character chances again

 

[Stratos]

Of all the Nintendo characters that are called retro and want to come as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series, I wonder what moves they'll put in Ayumi Tachibana, but I guess maybe they'll give her moves that are based off of other similar games.

 

[Perkilator]

I’ve already made some “what if X game got more dev time” posts, I know, but I decided to make this one after thinking about the infamous “Forbidden Seven”. What if Brawl got more dev time and was released in December 2008?

For my interpretation, I primarily focused on how members of the Forbidden Seven would work in the roster, assuming that my mind could see them work as fighters.

Spoiler: Roster

(Italics bold denotes unlockables)

Mario​	Luigi​	Peach​	Bowser​	Dr. Mario​	Donkey Kong​	Diddy Kong​
Dixie Kong​	Wario​	Yoshi​	Link​	Zelda / Sheik​	Ganondorf​	Tetra​
Samus / Zero Suit Samus​	Kirby​	King Dedede​	Meta Knight​	Fox​	Falco​	Wolf​
Pikachu​	Pokémon Trainer​	Jigglypuff​	Mewtwo​	Plusle & Minun​	Lucario​	Ness​
Lucas​	Captain Falcon​	Ice Climbers​	Marth​	Roy​	Ike​	Mr. Game & Watch​
Pit​	Olimar​	DeMille​	R.O.B.​	Snake​	Sonic​	RANDOM​

Starting roster

Mario​	Peach​	Bowser​	Donkey Kong​	Diddy Kong​	Wario​
Yoshi​	Link​	Zelda / Sheik​	Samus / Zero Suit Samus​	Kirby​	King Dedede​
Meta Knight​	Fox​	Pikachu​	Pokémon Trainer​	Plusle & Minun​	Lucas​
Ice Climbers​	Ike​	Pit​	Olimar​	Snake​	RANDOM​

Unlockable characters

Character	How to unlock
Luigi​	Clear Classic as any character Have Luigi join you in SSE
Dr. Mario​	Clear Classic as Mario without losing a life After beating SSE, find in a secret door
Dixie Kong​	Clear 3-Minute Brawl Have Dixie join you in SSE
Ganondorf​	Clear Classic with Link and Zelda on Hard or higher Have Ganondorf join you in SSE
Tetra​	Complete all target test difficulties with any character Have Tetra join you in SSE
Falco​	Clear 100-Man Brawl Have Falco join you in SSE
Wolf​	Clear Boss Battles as Fox and Falco After beating SSE, find in a secret door
Jigglypuff​	Summon 50 Poké Ball Pokémon After beating SSE, find in a secret door
Mewtwo​	See the Legendary Pokémon Mew Have Mewtwo join you in SSE
Lucario​	Survive up to 182% without losing a life Have Lucario join you in SSE
Ness​	Reflect 10 projectiles Have Ness join you in SSE
Captain Falcon​	Clear Classic on Normal or higher within 12 minutes Have Captain Falcon join you in SSE
Marth​	Clear Classic as any character w/o continues Have Marth join you in SSE
Roy​	Clear Classic as Marth w/o continues After beating SSE, find in a secret door
Mr. Game & Watch​	Clear target test with 15+ characters Have Mr. Game & Watch join you in SSE
DeMille​	Score 100 K.O.'s with items Have DeMille join you in SSE
R.O.B.​	Collect 250 different trophies Have R.O.B. join you in SSE
Sonic​	Clear SSE Clear Classic Mode as 10+ characters Play 20 combined hours of Vs. Matches

Vs. Matches

1. Luigi: 5
2. Ness: 10
3. Captain Falcon: 25
4. Jigglypuff: 50
5. Dr. Mario: 75
6. Dixie Kong: 100
7. Tetra: 125
8. Falco: 150
9. Marth: 175
10. Mewtwo: 200
11. Lucario: 225
12. Marth: 250
13. DeMille: 275
14. R.O.B.: 300
15. Roy: 350
16. Mr. Game & Watch: 400
17. Wolf: 450
18. Sonic: 500

Spoiler: Normal stages

1. Battlefield​
2. Final Destination​
3. Delfino Plaza​
4. Mario Circuit​
5. Luigi’s Mansion​
6. Mario Bros.​
7. WarioWare, Inc.​
8. Rumble Falls​
9. 75m
10. Bridge of Eldin
11. Pirate Ship
12. Norfair
13. Frigate Orpheon
14. Yoshi’s Island
15. Halberd
16. Rainbow Route
17. Lylat Cruise
18. Pokémon Stadium 2
19. Spear Pillar
20. New Pork City
21. Port Town Aero Dive
22. Summit
23. Castle Siege
24. Flat Zone 2
25. Skyworld
26. Distant Planet
27. Spillville
28. Gyromite
29. Smashville
30. Pictochat
31. Hanenbow
32. Shadow Moses Island
33. Green Hill Zone

Spoiler: Melee stages

1. Final Destination (Melee)
2. Rainbow Cruise​
3. Jungle Japes​
4. Temple​
5. Brinstar​
6. Yoshi’s Island (Melee)​
7. Green Greens​
8. Corneria​
9. Pokémon Stadium​
10. Onett​
11. Big Blue​

Spoiler: Roster explanation

• Mewtwo, Dr. Mario and Roy were brought back because, as veterans, they take less time to develop compared to full-on newcomers (even less time for the latter two, as they’re clones)
• Dixie Kong and Plusle & Minun are an odd case here. Dixie was supposed to be part of a tag team with Diddy Kong, but this was hampered by technical limitations, so I figured she could still get in as a semi-clone of Diddy Kong. The actual tag team duo would be Plusle & Minun (commonly theorized to be the “pra_mai” character due to the codename being the same as their Japanese names), who would be semi-clones of Pichu without the recoil damage.
• Finally, there’s “toon_zelda” and “toon_sheik”, also commonly theorized to be Tetra. I went with Tetra in particular solely because I wanted a Wind Waker rep that wasn’t just another clone of Link.
• DeMille is the odd one out purely because he’s not part from Tomato Adventure of the Forbidden Seven at all. However, DeMille did appear twice in a character poll Sakurai put up before Brawl came out, so I put him in the roster because of that (along with figuring he’d be another cool surprise character).
• Other characters that were considered include PAC-MAN, Villager, Nintendog, Miis, Geno, Blastoise and Krystal. Ultimately, I left all of them out in favor of the characters who are known to have leftover data in Brawl’s files (and DeMille).