Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

I'm just really disappointed that there were no ninja masks for the Mii Swordfighters. Just a headband.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Sportsmates aren't actually there for the same purpose, as they're highly specific to the Sports games.

Miis are interchangeable avatars who were there for "any" kind of game.

They're completely different niches. While Miis may see little use through time, they are a completely different breed of characters. Also, keep in mind that Sportsmates were quite controversial for being not just fairly boring(very few options to use), but for pushing the far more popular Miis aside in the sequel to Wii Sports. Sportsmates absolutely can shine, but only separately. They'd need a lot more games before they'd even have a chance of replacing the Mii Fighters at all.

Also, that doesn't make sense for the Mii Fighters. They're 3 separate characters overall, not an interchangeable "one size fits all". It's a severe downgrade as it's not just custom moves, but they're entirely different movesets to begin with. Sure, they're clearly full of moves taken from other fighters, but that's the point. The only custom moves are their specials, but they have 20ish moves beyond that that are too different. They also essentially have shared a slot by using the "create a character" system, so it's not like they have any issues with taking up the screen. It'd be more like removing 2 full characters and just leaving 1 at best, but also a lot of those custom moves are really awkward to throw onto a different class. It's better to treat them like Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon. Entirely separate characters with just certain options that are reusable(all 3 classes can use the exact same Mii among your created ones, and there's a few hats that aren't class specific).

I do love the idea of adding a new Mii Creator to Smash, though. This resolves the issue of having to forcefully making more Mii creators for other games. If they do plan to use the Miis less, which makes sense(moving things on), it won't really matter to Smash anyway. We aren't getting an interchangeable Mii because that doesn't really make any sense at all. They aren't "a combined concept", they're a unique one that requires 3 different classes to function as a concept. Besides that, a Sports Mii(more or less what they're most known for) would've worked as a neat idea instead of Mii Fighters, but it would not be remotely the same as the 3 separate ones, nor would it really work as a concept of "combining their moves", since they're too completely different in how they function.

That said, the idea of the "Sports moveset" strictly for the Sportsmates is actually far better than using a Mii since they were created intentionally as sports characters, not super adaptable avatars for any game. On the other hand, the Sportsmates have no use beyond one game and may be closer to Miis in concept down the line, but still would not work well as a replacement. As I noted above, it would not go well. People don't have an issue with their concept, it's them being poorly done in a way that makes them look bad awkward Mii replacements instead of just being unique ideas with some similarities.

 

[Laniv]

What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster

 

[SPEN18]

To be clear, I meant "whatever the next avatars are," whether that be the Sportsmates or not. If the Sportsmates become the new system avatars, then they'd no longer be sports-specific; if it's something completely new, then those new avatars could be used for the customizable Smash moveset(s), not the Sportsmates. We don't know what the planned future, if any, is for the Switch Sports guys/gals.

Also, "the Sportsmates are poorly designed" is not really an objective argument against using them as new customizable Smash characters. And to reiterate, the only way they'd end up being used for the customizable Smash fighters is if they have some future beyond just Sports.

--

A single custom moveset would not just be slapping the old custom moves onto the same character. It would be designing a completely new and hopefully streamlined system. Yes, you would likely be sacrificing some diversity of options but the goal would be to ease the resource investment into the custom movesets.
Also I did just say "I wonder if there is a way," not "this will definitely work." I recognize there could be potential balance issues with it, or that such a thing could end up being very resource-intensive anyway. And I know a lot of this debate just goes back to the question of "how much easier is it to do one newcomer versus three vets." However, I do not think losing the old movesets is really a reason to not do it...

I will add that in general I think we should stop thinking too much in terms of "this is how Smash did it before," at least to the extent that it becomes unnecessarily limiting. There's nothing so untouchable about the old movesets that they can't be altered or even completely reimagined.

 

[CannonStreak]

Is it wrong that I actually like the sportsmates from Nintendo Switch Sports? They actually look good to me, and I see nothing wrong with them. I would even like to see them appear in the next Smash Bros. game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here's the thing; the Mii Fighters are intentionally designed to be "3 different movesets". That's such a massive overhaul that it has no real chance of happening to try and combine them. It serves zero tangible purpose. It won't happen at all because it's a massive waste of time and completely makes a ton of MIi Costumes very awkward since they are directly built around a very specific moveset design. And yes, it's a massive loss of time, resources, and 2 different movests for zero legitimate gain.

They still have to, as I've noted before, completely revamp every costume to make a new avatar playable. It's a massive resource grind for little benefit. Mii Fighters are veterans and it doesn't matter if new avatars show up. They're far easier to port over and reuse as they're actual notable characters in their own right. They're actually iconic characters.

It'd have been cool to have an actual Mii Sportscharacter, but that's not what Miis actually were anyway. They were meant to be different per the game. Really, the only oddity is that they count as Smash OC's, but at least that's justified as they're redesigned to be Smash OC's. And it's kind of their gimmick(become a specific character to whatever specific game they're in, instead of feeling like guests).

The new avatar would also make for a potential neat sportscharacter. Miis? Nah, they already got a way better purpose and also are extremely popular this way. It lets all kinds of fun ideas in that doesn't work with a generic combined moveset. It then becomes a weird chimera of moves that have absolutely zero flow to them and just exist for the sake of it. There's zero coherency. So it's a massive loss in pretty much every way. Like, there's disappointment with expectations and all, and I get that, but what you're talking about is a far bigger deal than you make it out to be. This also loses 2 unique playstyles(for again, no actual benefit). We should be adding more, not less. This isn't like losing a clone who plays very similarly. This is just as bad as when we lost unique characters like Ice Climbers or Mewtwo, two very popular characters in Smash. The outcries were heavy.

What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster

That'd be nice. Though I guess they can't seem to tell that casting and projectiles are not one in the same. Despite it being obvious how different they are.

Is it wrong that I actually like the sportsmates from Nintendo Switch Sports? They actually look good to me, and I see nothing wrong with them. I would even like to see them appear in the next Smash Bros. game.

I was speaking from why they wouldn't specifically replace the Mii Fighters. They're actually cool, as their own thing. It's just a big set of shoes to fill, but it's just better to stop trying and making them feel like replacements and more like a cool unique Sports Character idea~

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just don't think Miis are going anywhere unless the next system straight up doesn't include them. Even then, the Switch, a system meant to push away from the Wii/3DS/Wii U style of making software still included them. They're synonymous with the Nintendo brand.

I don't see them getting replaced as the Sportsmates were significantly less popular than the Miis. I find it pointless to speculate on a new unreleased future avatar because we have no way to really talk about it.

 

[CannonStreak]

I was speaking from why they wouldn't specifically replace the Mii Fighters. They're actually cool, as their own thing. It's just a big set of shoes to fill, but it's just better to stop trying and making them feel like replacements and more like a cool unique Sports Character idea~

Yeah, I am going to have to agree. Especially on the big shoes part as you said. I would also like to see them as unique rather than replacements of Miis as you may have said.

I don't thinkl the Sportsmates would replace the Miis anyway. Making them unique, on the other hand...I am not sure how easy that would be, honestly.

 

[Sucumbio]

I personally hate the Miis as fighters because they're hard to beat lol. They're so annoying! Brawler can delete stocks so freaking fast it's chrom with punching and kicking god it's frustrating. And the gunner has so many sick setups. The sword Mii is the "easiest" to beat but even they can be frustrating with their u-air chains.

That said they are definitely popular because of their customization, presence in the meta, and the bonus of unique costumes or Super costumes paving a way for content to be in smash that couldn't quite make the roster or as an assist. Arguably being a costume is better than being an AT because you can at least control them. But I get for some it's a soft deconfirm or even a hard one which can be a let down.

Anyway I think if there's a Mii anything on the next console then they'll be in the next Smash. And if not, even still they could make a return as part of an in game fighter creator.

 

[SPEN18]

Here's the thing; the Mii Fighters are intentionally designed to be "3 different movesets".

And? They could have been designed to be 1 moveset instead, if the creators had so chosen. If that was how they were originally implemented, and I suggested that they change it to be 3 different movesets so we could have more options, would you still be suggesting that anything other than the original concept would be a waste to pursue? It sure feels like a lot of Smash fans would, and latch way too hard onto the one way things have been done up until this point.

The whole point of doing such a thing, again if it were to work, would be lessening resources by taking the same amount of resources as 1 new customizable fighter rather than 3 customizable vets (which is again why I said a lot of this depends on your view of how easy vets are to make; personally I think the public comments on Ultimate are strong evidence that vets are NOT at all easy to make, even when the conditions for bringing them over are more or less optimal).
And of course regardless of the vets vs. newcomers debate, once you reduce to a single custom moveset for one game, you could then carry that forward into future games as well and so you'd save resources in the long run by only carrying over 1 customizable vet per game rather than 3.

--

I mean, I can't say I think all of this would be likely anyway, but it's still something I would highly prefer to the current setup of using so many unique slots just for the sake of the diversity of the custom character concept. Of course there are others who want expansion of the customizable movesets, but personally I think Smash is at its best bringing existing characters together into one world with carefully crafted and well-representing movesets rather than focusing too hard on customization.

I don't disagree that the Miis are iconic characters in their own right. Which is why I suggested they could be repurposed into a non-customizable moveset based around Wii Sports et al. Alternatively, this idea of streamlining the custom movesets into one fighter slot could be applied to the Miis themselves rather than the Sportsmates or any other hypothetical new avatar characters, sure (especially if the next system either continues the Miis or doesn't have any avatars at all).

--

They still have to, as I've noted before, completely revamp every costume to make a new avatar playable

Honestly I'm not certain that the bulk of the old Mii costumes will even be carried over to the next game anyway, especially when so many of them either have licensing attached to them or are generic enough that outright replacing them with new costumes wouldn't be seen as a big deal (here I'm mainly talking about those costumes not based on a specific character).
In any case I just can't see near-100% veteran costume retention as being any kind of high priority.

--

It then becomes a weird chimera of moves that have absolutely zero flow to them and just exist for the sake of it. There's zero coherency. So it's a massive loss in pretty much every way.

It would not have zero flow or coherency if the move options are designed around the concept. Plenty of characters work with menagerie-style movesets, again if they are designed around that concept.

--

This also loses 2 unique playstyles(for again, no actual benefit). We should be adding more, not less. This isn't like losing a clone who plays very similarly. This is just as bad as when we lost unique characters like Ice Climbers or Mewtwo, two very popular characters in Smash. The outcries were heavy.

Once again, I think many Smash fans vastly overvalue each individual moveset. Outcries and whatnot don't have tangible effects on sales or the overall quality of the game. Unless we're talking about cutting Mario.
But anyway if we're just going to boil this whole discussion back down to the "no cuts, no buts" philosophy then there's no real convincing of anything.

 

[FazDude]

If I had to reenvision how Miis worked in Smash, I'd probably do something like this (you're gonna have to click the link but trust me OP is cooking):

sketched out some ideas i had for mii fighter customization in smash ultimate pic.twitter.com/Lt4dxjJ82v

— Ed Mendoza (@edmendozaart) October 15, 2018

This, combined with Miitopia's customization, would make Mii Fighters damn near perfect for me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Spoiler: Long

...You're not "lessening" resources. They're already there. You're entirely forcing the resources to completely "remake" them from scratch into a frankenstein moveset. That takes way more work than you realize. This requires all new balancing, work, a huge amount of reduction of Mii costumes that no longer make any sense(so a massive cut for no gain). Or they have to rework them from scratch in a lot of cases, with only the head being easily reusable. You can't reuse the current costume without revamping it entirely.

So either way, they're doing an excessive amount of work. Cutting two of the movesets and only leaving Brawler but not reusing any non-Brawler costume and Wigs is the only actual way they'd be lessening resources.

Also, let's see the issue with what you just said; "designed around the concept." Ah, so you're cutting 3 entire movesets and replacing it with a 100% new character that barely resembles them. While not gaining anything even in return because you can't reuse 2/3 of the costumes properly(due to them being directly only workable within the specific moveset, dedicated to being a Sword or Gunner). Trying to recreate them is a massive undertaking that only takes way more time. They most they did with old costumes is beef them up a little, which doesn't take as much time as completely reworking them. Unless we're talking about cutting the entire thing, which, uh, will just piss people off.

And fyi, you put too little value on how much the moveset matters. The moveset is a defining part of how a character plays. This is why people even ask for moveset revamps, because they value it massively with how it is relevant to the character. Likewise, this is why people don't like a moveset being left behind, because of how important it is and fun it is to use. A character is just a model until the moveset comes about, and it doesn't sell on faces alone. A moveset that doesn't flow, for instance, is unplayable in general. The idea it's great for casuals doesn't work either. A moveset needs to still work well together even in a casual setting so it feels fun to use. It doesn't have to be good competitively(hello, Ganondorf), but it has to work together well. Every single moveset actually flows together, because they focus on what makes the moveset works. And frankenstein moves don't normally go well together, with rare exceptions. Even then, the thing that got Dr. Mario the most popular is he plays like Classic Mario. This is actually really important to people because not everyone likes the F.L.U.D.D. It's only actually good for competitive play, not casual play, where's it's quite awkward. Wario got backlash as well at times for barely having anything to do with his Land stuff, focusing more on Ware. It's actually a very big deal, and movesets aren't interchangeable with another character. Once a character has a moveset, this is a big part of what makes them interesting in Smash. This is what the actual gameplay is, which, being a video game, not just a bunch of interchangeable faces, heavily is what makes it fun for players.

It's the same reason things like Items(as crazy and broken as they are) exist. Because they matter to players. Link without a Boomerang isn't Link. Samus is blatantly bad in practice, but does a good job representing the core abilities reasonably well for what they have to work with. The more complicated characters like Hero and Kazuya are rather faithful and the moveset actually makes them stand out as fun and unique. Sheik and Greninja are both ninjas, yet play completely differently and have their own unique ways of going about things. When you massively change a moveset, they are extremely alienating to both casuals and competitive fans alike. So there's a reason why people put value on a moveset; it's extremely important to a character when it's a big part of who they are. Ganondorf, frankly, not being a powerhouse would be absurd. Even if he wasn't as physical-based and used projectiles, he still has to hit like a truck or be completely off-kilter. Ridley isn't the best by any means, but he's a highly violent monster who fights feral. Bowser used to fight feral, but is now more wrestler-like, which befits his later personality(and he always had a soft spot and wasn't really a feral monster in most media, so the later portrayal is surprisingly more accurate while not taking away from him still having monstrous traits). And so on. There's a million examples, but a moveset absolutely defines a character. This isn't a game series full of generic nobodies. These are people using signature abilities or uniquely created with a purpose.

Incidentally, Twitter doesn't load on this site for me properly. I only see a white box with some slightly visible text and any links inside of it. Is it a cookie issue, maybe?

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm thinking the Mii fighter couldn't have been an all in one like Byleth by virtue of the design philosophy itself which clearly established "sword" "boxer" "gunner" as individual character classes, going even as far to say that all smash characters fit a predefined class, and that in order to facilitate the inclusion of as many costumes as possible meaning they planned all along to include rejected characters as Miis.

 

[CannonStreak]

Spoiler: Long

...You're not "lessening" resources. They're already there. You're entirely forcing the resources to completely "remake" them from scratch into a frankenstein moveset. That takes way more work than you realize. This requires all new balancing, work, a huge amount of reduction of Mii costumes that no longer make any sense(so a massive cut for no gain). Or they have to rework them from scratch in a lot of cases, with only the head being easily reusable. You can't reuse the current costume without revamping it entirely.

So either way, they're doing an excessive amount of work. Cutting two of the movesets and only leaving Brawler but not reusing any non-Brawler costume and Wigs is the only actual way they'd be lessening resources.

Also, let's see the issue with what you just said; "designed around the concept." Ah, so you're cutting 3 entire movesets and replacing it with a 100% new character that barely resembles them. While not gaining anything even in return because you can't reuse 2/3 of the costumes properly(due to them being directly only workable within the specific moveset, dedicated to being a Sword or Gunner). Trying to recreate them is a massive undertaking that only takes way more time. They most they did with old costumes is beef them up a little, which doesn't take as much time as completely reworking them. Unless we're talking about cutting the entire thing, which, uh, will just piss people off.

And fyi, you put too little value on how much the moveset matters. The moveset is a defining part of how a character plays. This is why people even ask for moveset revamps, because they value it massively with how it is relevant to the character. Likewise, this is why people don't like a moveset being left behind, because of how important it is and fun it is to use. A character is just a model until the moveset comes about, and it doesn't sell on faces alone. A moveset that doesn't flow, for instance, is unplayable in general. The idea it's great for casuals doesn't work either. A moveset needs to still work well together even in a casual setting so it feels fun to use. It doesn't have to be good competitively(hello, Ganondorf), but it has to work together well. Every single moveset actually flows together, because they focus on what makes the moveset works. And frankenstein moves don't normally go well together, with rare exceptions. Even then, the thing that got Dr. Mario the most popular is he plays like Classic Mario. This is actually really important to people because not everyone likes the F.L.U.D.D. It's only actually good for competitive play, not casual play, where's it's quite awkward. Wario got backlash as well at times for barely having anything to do with his Land stuff, focusing more on Ware. It's actually a very big deal, and movesets aren't interchangeable with another character. Once a character has a moveset, this is a big part of what makes them interesting in Smash. This is what the actual gameplay is, which, being a video game, not just a bunch of interchangeable faces, heavily is what makes it fun for players.

It's the same reason things like Items(as crazy and broken as they are) exist. Because they matter to players. Link without a Boomerang isn't Link. Samus is blatantly bad in practice, but does a good job representing the core abilities reasonably well for what they have to work with. The more complicated characters like Hero and Kazuya are rather faithful and the moveset actually makes them stand out as fun and unique. Sheik and Greninja are both ninjas, yet play completely differently and have their own unique ways of going about things. When you massively change a moveset, they are extremely alienating to both casuals and competitive fans alike. So there's a reason why people put value on a moveset; it's extremely important to a character when it's a big part of who they are. Ganondorf, frankly, not being a powerhouse would be absurd. Even if he wasn't as physical-based and used projectiles, he still has to hit like a truck or be completely off-kilter. Ridley isn't the best by any means, but he's a highly violent monster who fights feral. Bowser used to fight feral, but is now more wrestler-like, which befits his later personality(and he always had a soft spot and wasn't really a feral monster in most media, so the later portrayal is surprisingly more accurate while not taking away from him still having monstrous traits). And so on. There's a million examples, but a moveset absolutely defines a character. This isn't a game series full of generic nobodies. These are people using signature abilities or uniquely created with a purpose.

Incidentally, Twitter doesn't load on this site for me properly. I only see a white box with some slightly visible text and any links inside of it. Is it a cookie issue, maybe?

I have been having the same problem in regards to Twitter. I wonder what’s going on?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have been having the same problem in regards to Twitter. I wonder what’s going on?

Probably whatever is happening programming-wise to Twitter, I guess? I at first thought it was a me thing, but it's probably just a general thing.

I know it's no longer embedding Links to show previews of some stuff, so it's wonky every which way.

 

[CannonStreak]

Probably whatever is happening programming-wise to Twitter, I guess? I at first thought it was a me thing, but it's probably just a general thing.

I know it's no longer embedding Links to show previews of some stuff, so it's wonky every which way.

I was kind of thinking that myself. I should have said something like what you just said.

 

[SPEN18]

...You're not "lessening" resources. They're already there. You're entirely forcing the resources to completely "remake" them from scratch into a frankenstein moveset. That takes way more work than you realize. This requires all new balancing, work, a huge amount of reduction of Mii costumes that no longer make any sense(so a massive cut for no gain). Or they have to rework them from scratch in a lot of cases, with only the head being easily reusable. You can't reuse the current costume without revamping it entirely.

Also, let's see the issue with what you just said; "designed around the concept." Ah, so you're cutting 3 entire movesets and replacing it with a 100% new character that barely resembles them. While not gaining anything even in return because you can't reuse 2/3 of the costumes properly(due to them being directly only workable within the specific moveset, dedicated to being a Sword or Gunner). Trying to recreate them is a massive undertaking that only takes way more time. They most they did with old costumes is beef them up a little, which doesn't take as much time as completely reworking them.

I plainly said it is the resources required to make 1 brand-new custom character vs. the resources required to remake 3 veteran custom characters. I was never hiding that fact. So again it depends on how expensive newcomers are relative to vets; newcomers are more resource-intensive, but vets are also highly resource-intensive (in a normal Smash sequel scenario). I never said it doesn't take a lot of work, though bringing over three past unique Mii movesets also takes a ton of work, perhaps more.

The costumes for 4 didn't require much extra work for Ult because Ult was a special situation where old resources could be more extensively reused than is normal. Like I said, retaining all the costumes probably isn't going to be a very important factor, especially when the old ones will likely need to be updated more extensively than before anyway; and they can still make and sell however many new costumes for potential DLC just like they did before. Also updating/reworking costumes for a new avatar character (or maybe even just another type of Mii moveset) isn't like the worst thing resource-wise, at least out of all the things that need to be reworked for every new game to begin with. One can't act like the costumes are anywhere near the level of full-on PCs.

And fyi, you put too little value on how much the moveset matters. The moveset is a defining part of how a character plays. This is why people even ask for moveset revamps, because they value it massively with how it is relevant to the character. Likewise, this is why people don't like a moveset being left behind, because of how important it is and fun it is to use. A character is just a model until the moveset comes about, and it doesn't sell on faces alone. A moveset that doesn't flow, for instance, is unplayable in general. The idea it's great for casuals doesn't work either. A moveset needs to still work well together even in a casual setting so it feels fun to use. It doesn't have to be good competitively(hello, Ganondorf), but it has to work together well. Every single moveset actually flows together, because they focus on what makes the moveset works. And frankenstein moves don't normally go well together, with rare exceptions. Even then, the thing that got Dr. Mario the most popular is he plays like Classic Mario. This is actually really important to people because not everyone likes the F.L.U.D.D. It's only actually good for competitive play, not casual play, where's it's quite awkward. Wario got backlash as well at times for barely having anything to do with his Land stuff, focusing more on Ware. It's actually a very big deal, and movesets aren't interchangeable with another character. Once a character has a moveset, this is a big part of what makes them interesting in Smash. This is what the actual gameplay is, which, being a video game, not just a bunch of interchangeable faces, heavily is what makes it fun for players.

It's the same reason things like Items(as crazy and broken as they are) exist. Because they matter to players. Link without a Boomerang isn't Link. Samus is blatantly bad in practice, but does a good job representing the core abilities reasonably well for what they have to work with. The more complicated characters like Hero and Kazuya are rather faithful and the moveset actually makes them stand out as fun and unique. Sheik and Greninja are both ninjas, yet play completely differently and have their own unique ways of going about things. When you massively change a moveset, they are extremely alienating to both casuals and competitive fans alike. So there's a reason why people put value on a moveset; it's extremely important to a character when it's a big part of who they are. Ganondorf, frankly, not being a powerhouse would be absurd. Even if he wasn't as physical-based and used projectiles, he still has to hit like a truck or be completely off-kilter. Ridley isn't the best by any means, but he's a highly violent monster who fights feral. Bowser used to fight feral, but is now more wrestler-like, which befits his later personality(and he always had a soft spot and wasn't really a feral monster in most media, so the later portrayal is surprisingly more accurate while not taking away from him still having monstrous traits). And so on. There's a million examples, but a moveset absolutely defines a character. This isn't a game series full of generic nobodies. These are people using signature abilities or uniquely created with a purpose.

To me, most of this simply reads like an explanation of why a moveset needs to fit with the character it's being applied to. Which is not being disputed. Of course the moveset should represent the character well while also functioning well from a practical standpoint. But that isn't an argument against changing movesets, or against cutting movesets completely if those resources could be redirected to other equally or more fun movesets or other contents.
Given any character, there's usually a multitude of ways to make a representative and functioning moveset; each is its own interpretation of the character and there's not much in the way of concrete answers. It's not like the one way a particular character was previously implemented is automatically the best way to do it; I don't see why we should be opposed if a change makes the character either more representative of their canon without making them ill-functioning, or better-functioning while still true to canon.
In this case, I'd say that if anything, allowing a menagerie-style moveset is more fitting for a Mii than restricting them to using one fighting style.

 

[Super Devon]

What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster

I had this thought since Smash 4 that a Mii Magician would be really cool.

Whether Mii’s would return in the next Smash is something I’m not really certain of, seeing Nintendo has been been using them less and less as the switch lifecycle goes on.

 

[osby]

Mii Mage must be the single most requested character that I have no idea how they would play like. We already have a zoner Mii and a trap-focused character feels too limiting for a customizable fighter. With three Miis we have covering close, mid-range and long-range, I can't see a fourth Mii type being added primarily for aesthetics.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mii Mage must be the single most requested character that I have no idea how they would play like. We already have a zoner Mii and a trap-focused character feels too limiting for a customizable fighter. With three Miis we have covering close, mid-range and long-range, I can't see a fourth Mii type being added primarily for aesthetics.

I do like the concept on paper. But how will it work in practice? Shortrange hitboxes more akin to how Zelda/Ganondorf/Peach is to some degree? Mii Gunner covers that a lot too, which is kind of the problem.

If anything, having a costume set/style(so it's used on other costumes) that uses a Wand but aesthetically different animations would be at least nice. As in, the animations look different to feel like a magic user, but are identical. Dark Samus is a semi-decent example, having a glow to her. Still sounds like a huge amount of work for a purely aesthetic thing, though. Which is also part of the problem. :/

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just a small nitpick but Kung Fu, even though the NES conversion was made by Nintendo, is technically a third-party game so I'm not sure it'd fly in this hypothetical concept

It's technically a 4TH Party game. Originally being an adaptation of the movie Spartan X.

I saw talk of ArcSys earlier and I think Sol and Ragna would be awesome in Smash Bros.

Both inferior ArcSys picks to Kunio.

What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster

Mii Mage and Mii Ninja would both make excellent new Mii archetypes with tons of potential characters that could be represented by them.

Still sounds like a huge amount of work for a purely aesthetic thing, though.

Sakurai seems to care about aesthetics quite a bit. And right now, having staff mages like Aerith and Veronica using swordfighter moves looks real crappy.

Making the Mii Mage a staff fighter support/utility spells in addition to just having offensive projectiles should give it sufficient unique design space from the Gunner. And better represent a lot of gaming characters than are currently.

 

[Stratos]

From the Monster Rancher series I was thinking Suezo and Mocchi as newcomers from there to future Super Smash Bros. games.

 

[Idon]

Oh please, the last thing Smash Bros needs is another mii archetype that already requires more work than an average character, doesn't introduce a new character/series people actually enjoyed previously, and provides zero additional content that enriches smash outside of the character itself like stages and music.
We especially don't need one with even more niche application and less applicable characters to template over it.

If they're going to add a magic-user, I'd rather it be someone actually known for using magic than something pulled from the very aether to fill out more mii types.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm wondering...

How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.

 

[Stratos]

A Fire Emblem movie would be better suited as an anime.

 

[fogbadge]

On the subject of twixxer i mean twitter as i understand it, everyone who is not logged in all the time can no longer see tweets. a design choice that could only be made by a true moron

on the jubject of the miis i was gonna ask if there were anymore streetpass games you'd like to see as stages?

 

[Perkilator]

A Fire Emblem movie would be better suited as an anime.

Actually, now that I think about it, I was about to suggest the idea of a Fire Emblem crossover with Paper Mario.

 

[fogbadge]

Actually, now that I think about it, I was about to suggest the idea of a Fire Emblem crossover with Paper Mario.

only if when the FE protag tries to romance mario he friend zones them

 

[Garteam]

I'm wondering...

How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.

I think Kiryu has a pretty strong chance of being added to Smash at some point due to the series' financial success, critical acclaim, and the fact that there aren't too many Japanese series left that are larger than it in those two metrics. I do think Kiryu would have to be a DLC character to properly adapt Yakuza's mechanics though.

 

[SPEN18]

I don't really want a Mii mage.

Though saying it's too similar to Gunner is not a good argument against it. That's almost like saying Robin and Samus are too similar.

Then again, I do agree with preferring more new characters over expanded custom options.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'm wondering...

How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.

I think the only thing really standing in it's way is licensing, remember a LOT of Yakuza characters are modeled after actual Japanese actors, surely that would raise the licensing costs quiet a bit.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Though saying it's too similar to Gunner is not a good argument against it. That's almost like saying Robin and Samus are too similar.

For most characters, I'd agree. Robin and Samus do have similarities in their play styles but they are ultimately distinct enough to justify their own inclusions, both from character and gameplay perspectives.

But Miis are blank slates. They aren't really characters - they're gameplay functions you slap a face onto. Mii Gunner is really the "Mii who uses long ranged combat". They even borrow moves from some of Smash's mages, with moves based off of Din's Fire, PK Magnet and Elfire. Even the gun itself is designed from a sort of magictech angle, blurring the line between sci-fi and fantasy.

As for aesthetics...yeah, you really do have to use your imagination for gunner to work as most mages. But that's miis for you. You have to suspend your disbelief extra hard for them anyway. Not every character fits neatly into the Brawler/Swordie/Gunner boxes and adding a mage group won't fully alliviate that. Miis are built on compromise.

 

[MasterCheef]

Both inferior ArcSys picks to Kunio.

not anywhere near a good a pick as , Geovanna , from , Guilty Gear

 

[SPEN18]

For most characters, I'd agree. Robin and Samus do have similarities in their play styles but they are ultimately distinct enough to justify their own inclusions, both from character and gameplay perspectives.

But Miis are blank slates. They aren't really characters - they're gameplay functions you slap a face onto. Mii Gunner is really the "Mii who uses long ranged combat". They even borrow moves from some of Smash's mages, with moves based off of Din's Fire, PK Magnet and Elfire. Even the gun itself is designed from a sort of magictech angle, blurring the line between sci-fi and fantasy.

As for aesthetics...yeah, you really do have to use your imagination for gunner to work as most mages. But that's miis for you. You have to suspend your disbelief extra hard for them anyway. Not every character fits neatly into the Brawler/Swordie/Gunner boxes and adding a mage group won't fully alliviate that. Miis are built on compromise.

What I'm saying is that you could easily design a Mii mage moveset that is gameplay-wise different enough from Gunner, and that would greatly expand the custom options.
Whether that expands the ability of the Miis to capture the essence of other characters enough to be worth it is another story. Ultimately, I don't think it's worth it relative to the effort, no. So in that sense I agree with you.

Though the Mii is a character in its own right; it just happens to be a customizable avatar like Robin or Villager. Unless you're just talking about how in Smash they're implemented as templates to build other characters over without regard to representing their actual game appearances like literally every other PC is.

 

[TheQuester]

I'm wondering...

How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.

This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.

He fought women in Project X Zone lol

 

[sal ig]

Unrelated but has anyone talked about this mod yet

They created Rayman for Smash Ultimate

The newest Ultimate S update brings lots of new changes, new stages and of course, Rayman!Ultimate S: https://github.com/chrispo-git/ult-s/releases/tag/v3.1....

youtu.be

 

[Speed Weed]

This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.

People always bring this up because of an interview with the creator, but not only was he more specifically talking about more traditional fighters like Tekken (in fact I believe he said elsewhere he would like to see Kiryu in Smash), he's no longer at SEGA, so unless Sakurai went the extra mile of consulting the original creators, I don't think he'd have much of a say in the matter anymore.

Honestly it feels like we're always stuck in this cycle of "Kiryu in Smash is brought up -> person who has never played the games or read up on this stuff brings up the interview they heard about -> this is refuted by other people -> rinse and repeat". I don't want to be too harsh since you're new here and I imagine you probably didn't mean anything bad with this, but it does get a bit grating to see this constantly happen

 

[chocolatejr9]

People always bring this up because of an interview with the creator, but not only was he more specifically talking about more traditional fighters like Tekken (in fact I believe he said elsewhere he would like to see Kiryu in Smash), he's no longer at SEGA, so unless Sakurai went the extra mile of consulting the original creators, I don't think he'd have much of a say in the matter anymore.

Honestly it feels like we're always stuck in this cycle of "Kiryu in Smash is brought up -> person who has never played the games or read up on this stuff brings up the interview they heard about -> this is refuted by other people -> rinse and repeat". I don't want to be too harsh since you're new here and I imagine you probably didn't mean anything bad with this, but it does get a bit grating to see this constantly happen

If it helps, I hope to get the games at some point now that I'm using my laptop more often. Waiting for them to come to Switch has grown a bit tiresome...

 

[osby]

This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.

The thing is Kiryu can already fight against women in Project X Zone 2 so that piece of information, if not outright irrelevant, at the very least dependant on the context.