Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2013
- Messages
- 2,234
I'm just really disappointed that there were no ninja masks for the Mii Swordfighters. Just a headband.
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That'd be nice. Though I guess they can't seem to tell that casting and projectiles are not one in the same. Despite it being obvious how different they are.What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster
I was speaking from why they wouldn't specifically replace the Mii Fighters. They're actually cool, as their own thing. It's just a big set of shoes to fill, but it's just better to stop trying and making them feel like replacements and more like a cool unique Sports Character idea~Is it wrong that I actually like the sportsmates from Nintendo Switch Sports? They actually look good to me, and I see nothing wrong with them. I would even like to see them appear in the next Smash Bros. game.
Yeah, I am going to have to agree. Especially on the big shoes part as you said. I would also like to see them as unique rather than replacements of Miis as you may have said.I was speaking from why they wouldn't specifically replace the Mii Fighters. They're actually cool, as their own thing. It's just a big set of shoes to fill, but it's just better to stop trying and making them feel like replacements and more like a cool unique Sports Character idea~
And? They could have been designed to be 1 moveset instead, if the creators had so chosen. If that was how they were originally implemented, and I suggested that they change it to be 3 different movesets so we could have more options, would you still be suggesting that anything other than the original concept would be a waste to pursue? It sure feels like a lot of Smash fans would, and latch way too hard onto the one way things have been done up until this point.Here's the thing; the Mii Fighters are intentionally designed to be "3 different movesets".
Honestly I'm not certain that the bulk of the old Mii costumes will even be carried over to the next game anyway, especially when so many of them either have licensing attached to them or are generic enough that outright replacing them with new costumes wouldn't be seen as a big deal (here I'm mainly talking about those costumes not based on a specific character).They still have to, as I've noted before, completely revamp every costume to make a new avatar playable
It would not have zero flow or coherency if the move options are designed around the concept. Plenty of characters work with menagerie-style movesets, again if they are designed around that concept.It then becomes a weird chimera of moves that have absolutely zero flow to them and just exist for the sake of it. There's zero coherency. So it's a massive loss in pretty much every way.
Once again, I think many Smash fans vastly overvalue each individual moveset. Outcries and whatnot don't have tangible effects on sales or the overall quality of the game. Unless we're talking about cutting Mario.This also loses 2 unique playstyles(for again, no actual benefit). We should be adding more, not less. This isn't like losing a clone who plays very similarly. This is just as bad as when we lost unique characters like Ice Climbers or Mewtwo, two very popular characters in Smash. The outcries were heavy.
sketched out some ideas i had for mii fighter customization in smash ultimate pic.twitter.com/Lt4dxjJ82v
— Ed Mendoza (@edmendozaart) October 15, 2018
I have been having the same problem in regards to Twitter. I wonder what’s going on?...You're not "lessening" resources. They're already there. You're entirely forcing the resources to completely "remake" them from scratch into a frankenstein moveset. That takes way more work than you realize. This requires all new balancing, work, a huge amount of reduction of Mii costumes that no longer make any sense(so a massive cut for no gain). Or they have to rework them from scratch in a lot of cases, with only the head being easily reusable. You can't reuse the current costume without revamping it entirely.
So either way, they're doing an excessive amount of work. Cutting two of the movesets and only leaving Brawler but not reusing any non-Brawler costume and Wigs is the only actual way they'd be lessening resources.
Also, let's see the issue with what you just said; "designed around the concept." Ah, so you're cutting 3 entire movesets and replacing it with a 100% new character that barely resembles them. While not gaining anything even in return because you can't reuse 2/3 of the costumes properly(due to them being directly only workable within the specific moveset, dedicated to being a Sword or Gunner). Trying to recreate them is a massive undertaking that only takes way more time. They most they did with old costumes is beef them up a little, which doesn't take as much time as completely reworking them. Unless we're talking about cutting the entire thing, which, uh, will just piss people off.
And fyi, you put too little value on how much the moveset matters. The moveset is a defining part of how a character plays. This is why people even ask for moveset revamps, because they value it massively with how it is relevant to the character. Likewise, this is why people don't like a moveset being left behind, because of how important it is and fun it is to use. A character is just a model until the moveset comes about, and it doesn't sell on faces alone. A moveset that doesn't flow, for instance, is unplayable in general. The idea it's great for casuals doesn't work either. A moveset needs to still work well together even in a casual setting so it feels fun to use. It doesn't have to be good competitively(hello, Ganondorf), but it has to work together well. Every single moveset actually flows together, because they focus on what makes the moveset works. And frankenstein moves don't normally go well together, with rare exceptions. Even then, the thing that got Dr. Mario the most popular is he plays like Classic Mario. This is actually really important to people because not everyone likes the F.L.U.D.D. It's only actually good for competitive play, not casual play, where's it's quite awkward. Wario got backlash as well at times for barely having anything to do with his Land stuff, focusing more on Ware. It's actually a very big deal, and movesets aren't interchangeable with another character. Once a character has a moveset, this is a big part of what makes them interesting in Smash. This is what the actual gameplay is, which, being a video game, not just a bunch of interchangeable faces, heavily is what makes it fun for players.
It's the same reason things like Items(as crazy and broken as they are) exist. Because they matter to players. Link without a Boomerang isn't Link. Samus is blatantly bad in practice, but does a good job representing the core abilities reasonably well for what they have to work with. The more complicated characters like Hero and Kazuya are rather faithful and the moveset actually makes them stand out as fun and unique. Sheik and Greninja are both ninjas, yet play completely differently and have their own unique ways of going about things. When you massively change a moveset, they are extremely alienating to both casuals and competitive fans alike. So there's a reason why people put value on a moveset; it's extremely important to a character when it's a big part of who they are. Ganondorf, frankly, not being a powerhouse would be absurd. Even if he wasn't as physical-based and used projectiles, he still has to hit like a truck or be completely off-kilter. Ridley isn't the best by any means, but he's a highly violent monster who fights feral. Bowser used to fight feral, but is now more wrestler-like, which befits his later personality(and he always had a soft spot and wasn't really a feral monster in most media, so the later portrayal is surprisingly more accurate while not taking away from him still having monstrous traits). And so on. There's a million examples, but a moveset absolutely defines a character. This isn't a game series full of generic nobodies. These are people using signature abilities or uniquely created with a purpose.
Incidentally, Twitter doesn't load on this site for me properly. I only see a white box with some slightly visible text and any links inside of it. Is it a cookie issue, maybe?
Probably whatever is happening programming-wise to Twitter, I guess? I at first thought it was a me thing, but it's probably just a general thing.I have been having the same problem in regards to Twitter. I wonder what’s going on?
I was kind of thinking that myself. I should have said something like what you just said.Probably whatever is happening programming-wise to Twitter, I guess? I at first thought it was a me thing, but it's probably just a general thing.
I know it's no longer embedding Links to show previews of some stuff, so it's wonky every which way.
...You're not "lessening" resources. They're already there. You're entirely forcing the resources to completely "remake" them from scratch into a frankenstein moveset. That takes way more work than you realize. This requires all new balancing, work, a huge amount of reduction of Mii costumes that no longer make any sense(so a massive cut for no gain). Or they have to rework them from scratch in a lot of cases, with only the head being easily reusable. You can't reuse the current costume without revamping it entirely.
I plainly said it is the resources required to make 1 brand-new custom character vs. the resources required to remake 3 veteran custom characters. I was never hiding that fact. So again it depends on how expensive newcomers are relative to vets; newcomers are more resource-intensive, but vets are also highly resource-intensive (in a normal Smash sequel scenario). I never said it doesn't take a lot of work, though bringing over three past unique Mii movesets also takes a ton of work, perhaps more.Also, let's see the issue with what you just said; "designed around the concept." Ah, so you're cutting 3 entire movesets and replacing it with a 100% new character that barely resembles them. While not gaining anything even in return because you can't reuse 2/3 of the costumes properly(due to them being directly only workable within the specific moveset, dedicated to being a Sword or Gunner). Trying to recreate them is a massive undertaking that only takes way more time. They most they did with old costumes is beef them up a little, which doesn't take as much time as completely reworking them.
To me, most of this simply reads like an explanation of why a moveset needs to fit with the character it's being applied to. Which is not being disputed. Of course the moveset should represent the character well while also functioning well from a practical standpoint. But that isn't an argument against changing movesets, or against cutting movesets completely if those resources could be redirected to other equally or more fun movesets or other contents.And fyi, you put too little value on how much the moveset matters. The moveset is a defining part of how a character plays. This is why people even ask for moveset revamps, because they value it massively with how it is relevant to the character. Likewise, this is why people don't like a moveset being left behind, because of how important it is and fun it is to use. A character is just a model until the moveset comes about, and it doesn't sell on faces alone. A moveset that doesn't flow, for instance, is unplayable in general. The idea it's great for casuals doesn't work either. A moveset needs to still work well together even in a casual setting so it feels fun to use. It doesn't have to be good competitively(hello, Ganondorf), but it has to work together well. Every single moveset actually flows together, because they focus on what makes the moveset works. And frankenstein moves don't normally go well together, with rare exceptions. Even then, the thing that got Dr. Mario the most popular is he plays like Classic Mario. This is actually really important to people because not everyone likes the F.L.U.D.D. It's only actually good for competitive play, not casual play, where's it's quite awkward. Wario got backlash as well at times for barely having anything to do with his Land stuff, focusing more on Ware. It's actually a very big deal, and movesets aren't interchangeable with another character. Once a character has a moveset, this is a big part of what makes them interesting in Smash. This is what the actual gameplay is, which, being a video game, not just a bunch of interchangeable faces, heavily is what makes it fun for players.
It's the same reason things like Items(as crazy and broken as they are) exist. Because they matter to players. Link without a Boomerang isn't Link. Samus is blatantly bad in practice, but does a good job representing the core abilities reasonably well for what they have to work with. The more complicated characters like Hero and Kazuya are rather faithful and the moveset actually makes them stand out as fun and unique. Sheik and Greninja are both ninjas, yet play completely differently and have their own unique ways of going about things. When you massively change a moveset, they are extremely alienating to both casuals and competitive fans alike. So there's a reason why people put value on a moveset; it's extremely important to a character when it's a big part of who they are. Ganondorf, frankly, not being a powerhouse would be absurd. Even if he wasn't as physical-based and used projectiles, he still has to hit like a truck or be completely off-kilter. Ridley isn't the best by any means, but he's a highly violent monster who fights feral. Bowser used to fight feral, but is now more wrestler-like, which befits his later personality(and he always had a soft spot and wasn't really a feral monster in most media, so the later portrayal is surprisingly more accurate while not taking away from him still having monstrous traits). And so on. There's a million examples, but a moveset absolutely defines a character. This isn't a game series full of generic nobodies. These are people using signature abilities or uniquely created with a purpose.
I had this thought since Smash 4 that a Mii Magician would be really cool.What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster
I do like the concept on paper. But how will it work in practice? Shortrange hitboxes more akin to how Zelda/Ganondorf/Peach is to some degree? Mii Gunner covers that a lot too, which is kind of the problem.Mii Mage must be the single most requested character that I have no idea how they would play like. We already have a zoner Mii and a trap-focused character feels too limiting for a customizable fighter. With three Miis we have covering close, mid-range and long-range, I can't see a fourth Mii type being added primarily for aesthetics.
It's technically a 4TH Party game. Originally being an adaptation of the movie Spartan X.Just a small nitpick but Kung Fu, even though the NES conversion was made by Nintendo, is technically a third-party game so I'm not sure it'd fly in this hypothetical concept
Both inferior ArcSys picks to Kunio.I saw talk of ArcSys earlier and I think Sol and Ragna would be awesome in Smash Bros.
Mii Mage and Mii Ninja would both make excellent new Mii archetypes with tons of potential characters that could be represented by them.What we really need is a Mii Spellcaster
Sakurai seems to care about aesthetics quite a bit. And right now, having staff mages like Aerith and Veronica using swordfighter moves looks real crappy.Still sounds like a huge amount of work for a purely aesthetic thing, though.
Actually, now that I think about it, I was about to suggest the idea of a Fire Emblem crossover with Paper Mario.A Fire Emblem movie would be better suited as an anime.
only if when the FE protag tries to romance mario he friend zones themActually, now that I think about it, I was about to suggest the idea of a Fire Emblem crossover with Paper Mario.
I think Kiryu has a pretty strong chance of being added to Smash at some point due to the series' financial success, critical acclaim, and the fact that there aren't too many Japanese series left that are larger than it in those two metrics. I do think Kiryu would have to be a DLC character to properly adapt Yakuza's mechanics though.I'm wondering...
How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.
I think the only thing really standing in it's way is licensing, remember a LOT of Yakuza characters are modeled after actual Japanese actors, surely that would raise the licensing costs quiet a bit.I'm wondering...
How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.
For most characters, I'd agree. Robin and Samus do have similarities in their play styles but they are ultimately distinct enough to justify their own inclusions, both from character and gameplay perspectives.Though saying it's too similar to Gunner is not a good argument against it. That's almost like saying Robin and Samus are too similar.
not anywhere near a good a pick as , Geovanna , from , Guilty GearBoth inferior ArcSys picks to Kunio.
What I'm saying is that you could easily design a Mii mage moveset that is gameplay-wise different enough from Gunner, and that would greatly expand the custom options.For most characters, I'd agree. Robin and Samus do have similarities in their play styles but they are ultimately distinct enough to justify their own inclusions, both from character and gameplay perspectives.
But Miis are blank slates. They aren't really characters - they're gameplay functions you slap a face onto. Mii Gunner is really the "Mii who uses long ranged combat". They even borrow moves from some of Smash's mages, with moves based off of Din's Fire, PK Magnet and Elfire. Even the gun itself is designed from a sort of magictech angle, blurring the line between sci-fi and fantasy.
As for aesthetics...yeah, you really do have to use your imagination for gunner to work as most mages. But that's miis for you. You have to suspend your disbelief extra hard for them anyway. Not every character fits neatly into the Brawler/Swordie/Gunner boxes and adding a mage group won't fully alliviate that. Miis are built on compromise.
This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.I'm wondering...
How much of a chance do you think Yakuza/Like a Dragon has of being included? It is a very successful Sega IP.
He fought women in Project X Zone lolThis is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.
People always bring this up because of an interview with the creator, but not only was he more specifically talking about more traditional fighters like Tekken (in fact I believe he said elsewhere he would like to see Kiryu in Smash), he's no longer at SEGA, so unless Sakurai went the extra mile of consulting the original creators, I don't think he'd have much of a say in the matter anymore.This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.
If it helps, I hope to get the games at some point now that I'm using my laptop more often. Waiting for them to come to Switch has grown a bit tiresome...People always bring this up because of an interview with the creator, but not only was he more specifically talking about more traditional fighters like Tekken (in fact I believe he said elsewhere he would like to see Kiryu in Smash), he's no longer at SEGA, so unless Sakurai went the extra mile of consulting the original creators, I don't think he'd have much of a say in the matter anymore.
Honestly it feels like we're always stuck in this cycle of "Kiryu in Smash is brought up -> person who has never played the games or read up on this stuff brings up the interview they heard about -> this is refuted by other people -> rinse and repeat". I don't want to be too harsh since you're new here and I imagine you probably didn't mean anything bad with this, but it does get a bit grating to see this constantly happen
The thing is Kiryu can already fight against women in Project X Zone 2 so that piece of information, if not outright irrelevant, at the very least dependant on the context.This is a hot take, but honestly i think it's very unlikely.
The biggest problem with Kiryu is that apparently he doesn't fight women (I haven't played the series, this is what i've heard people say.) so i just don't see it happening since aparently it's such a big part of his character.