Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[FazDude]

while playing pikmin i found myself wondering: how many parents do we have among the fighters?

Going off memory:

• Samus (if you count the baby Metroid)
• Yoshi (kinda)
• Fox (future timeline)
• Bowser
• Falco (future timeline)
• Chrom
• Olimar
• Rosalina (if you count the Lumas)
• Pac-Man
• Ken
• Terry
• Kazuya

 

[Gengar84]

Going off memory:

• Samus (if you count the baby Metroid)
• Yoshi (kinda)
• Fox (future timeline)
• Bowser
• Falco (future timeline)
• Chrom
• Olimar
• Rosalina (if you count the Lumas)
• Pac-Man
• Ken
• Terry
• Kazuya

Yeah, I just learned about Ken’s son last week. I’m surprised I forgot that one. Kazuya too because I was just talking about him and Jin earlier today. Not sure how I blanked on those lol. Bowser’s another obvious one I missed. We even have his kids in Smash.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Alright, let’s just try to settle down and not throw attacks at each other. Smash is just a game and this is supposed to be a place for fun discussion. No need to get aggressive.

To try to change topics, what series already in Smash do you feel isn’t well represented musically? As far as first party franchises go, I’d like to see a big improvement in Pokémon and Donkey Kong. There are so many great Pokémon battle themes and we typically get a lot of route themes not as well suited for battle. I’d have loved to hear the Chamion themes from the first two gens and many others. Donkey Kong has almost no music from Tropical Freeze, which is almost criminal. I’d also love to hear a lot more from the SNES DKC Trilogy beyond 10 versions of the intro stage from the first game.

Yeah I think DK is the obvious pick. It's such a lame selection, especially because David Wise's works on those games are often considered some of the most iconic video game music out there. The lack of Tropical freeze music is baffling, but even for the original trilogy there's a lot of classics missing like Mining melancholy, Aquatic ambience, Forest interlude etc. (and don't say that they're too calm for Smash when we have Animal crossing and Wii fit remixes).

You know, I agree with you on Pokémon, but I actually think that there's not enough route and town music. Of course, there's a lot of missing battle themes too, but I think routes are still a very important pieces of the franchise and the only one we have are 2 routes from Unova and Route 1 from Gen 1. It's not that much.

Aside from those I'm going to go with Earthbound. There's only 2 battle themes (and both are them are part of the same medley in Smash). Maybe it's because he weird Earthbound music would be hard to adapt to Smash, but I still wish we would have more.

For the third party, the obvious choice is Kingdom hearts. To be fair I get that dealing with Disney was probably super hard, but boy this franchise was done dirty musically. KH1 is arguably Yoko Shimomura weakest works, it's a huge shame that they had to stop with the first game.

Edit: Also I completely forgot about Minecraft. Again, I get that there was rights issue, but damn having 0 music from the original game release from C418 is genuinely awful representation.

 

[FazDude]

To try to change topics, what series already in Smash do you feel isn’t well represented musically? As far as first party franchises go, I’d like to see a big improvement in Pokémon and Donkey Kong. There are so many great Pokémon battle themes and we typically get a lot of route themes not as well suited for battle. I’d have loved to hear the Chamion themes from the first two gens and many others. Donkey Kong has almost no music from Tropical Freeze, which is almost criminal. I’d also love to hear a lot more from the SNES DKC Trilogy beyond 10 versions of the intro stage from the first game.

Aside from the aforementioned DK, I feel Sonic is a weird case - The music he has is a nice blend of tracks from throughout the series, but it feels like for a lot of the games, they threw in the vocal themes and called it a day. Open Your Heart as SA1's only music track is a crime. I wouldn't call the lineup bad, just one with missed potential.

Now Pac-Man, on the other hand, could use work. Sure, it having a ton of Namco arcade tracks is great, but only three tracks from Pac-Man is a major disservice, especially considering only one isn't a remix of the classic theme. Hell, even if you wanna ignore the World games, you still have the Championship Edition series and Arrangement, which have great scores.

 

[Laniv]

while playing pikmin i found myself wondering: how many parents do we have among the fighters?

Actual Parents:

Can become a parent through proper gameplay: and all Pokémon, technically

Presumably becomes a parent at some point:

Became a parent in a certain timeline:

Honorary Parent:

People headcanon this character as a parent:

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah I think DK is the obvious pick. It's such a lame selection, especially because David Wise's works on those games are often considered some of the most iconic video game music out there. The lack of Tropical freeze music is baffling, but even for the original trilogy there's a lot of classics missing like Mining melancholy, Aquatic ambience, Forest interlude etc. (and don't say that they're too calm for Smash when we have Animal crossing and Wii fit remixes).

You know, I agree with you on Pokémon, but I actually think that there's not enough route and town music. Of course, there's a lot of missing battle themes too, but I think routes are still a very important pieces of the franchise and the only one we have are 2 routes from Unova and Route 1 from Gen 1. It's not that much.

Aside from those I'm going to go with Earthbound. There's only 2 battle themes (and both are them are part of the same medley in Smash). Maybe it's because he weird Earthbound music would be hard to adapt to Smash, but I still wish we would have more.

For the third party, the obvious choice is Kingdom hearts. To be fair I get that dealing with Disney was probably super hard, but boy this franchise was done dirty musically. KH1 is arguably Yoko Shimomura weakest works, it's a huge shame that they had to stop with the first game.

Yeah, Unova had a lot of great overworld music. My favorite song is Relic Castle but I think Dragon Spiral Tower and Driftveil City are really good.

 

[fogbadge]

Going off memory:

• Samus (if you count the baby Metroid)
• Yoshi (kinda)
• Fox (future timeline)
• Bowser
• Falco (future timeline)
• Chrom
• Olimar
• Rosalina (if you count the Lumas)
• Pac-Man
• Ken
• Terry
• Kazuya

I forgot Ken had a kid

 

[FazDude]

I'm surprised that so many of you forgot Mel after his brutal, devastating assault on Ken.

/s

 

[fogbadge]

I'm surprised that so many of you forgot Mel after his brutal, devastating assault on Ken.

/s

well that’s one way to remain an only child

 

[Gengar84]

I forgot Ken had a kid

I never knew until this past weekend. Tophat Gamer has a great series on YouTube where he goes in detail about each Street Fighter character’s stories throughout the series. I never knew a ton about SF lore before that despite watching the live action movies, the American cartoon and a few anime movies. Not much from the games themselves.

 

[Oracle Link]

Alright, let’s just try to settle down and not throw attacks at each other. Smash is just a game and this is supposed to be a place for fun discussion. No need to get aggressive.

To try to change topics, what series already in Smash do you feel isn’t well represented musically? As far as first party franchises go, I’d like to see a big improvement in Pokémon and Donkey Kong. There are so many great Pokémon battle themes and we typically get a lot of route themes not as well suited for battle. I’d have loved to hear the Chamion themes from the first two gens and many others. Donkey Kong has almost no music from Tropical Freeze, which is almost criminal. I’d also love to hear a lot more from the SNES DKC Trilogy beyond 10 versions of the intro stage from the first game.



The only ones I’m aware of are Chrom, Corrin and Robin (I forget whether Lucina is. a child from the future, it’s been a while since I played Awakening). There’s also Samus if you want to count the Metroid as her child.

Technically theres also Young and Toon Link its implied that both got kids later on!
Young became the heros shade and teaches TP Link who he calls his ancestor!
And Considering that tetra is ST Zeldas ancestor and that all the guards look like toon link?!

 

[fogbadge]

I never knew until this past weekend. Tophat Gamer has a great series on YouTube where he goes in detail about each Street Fighter character’s stories throughout the series. I never knew a ton about SF lore before that despite watching the live action movies, the American cartoon and a few anime movies. Not much from the games themselves.

I only knew from his ending in the single street fighter game I’ve played

 

[dezeray112]

Yes, it was.

It even had a few exclusive costumes and modes.

Also to add, there were Tekken games released on the Game Boy Advance and Nintendo 3DS too.

 

[Speed Weed]

as a major classic Namco fan I have to admit I'm not really that big into the Pac-Man World games and don't really see them as this massive missing part of Pac-Man's history whose lack of content in Smash needs to be rectified right this second. like if I have a choice between a Pac-Man World remix and a Dragon Spirit remix, I will choose the latter

granted I do understand the gripes with the lack of actual pac content and I will admit Championship content would be sick

 

[Soy_Man]

Tekken is huge, idk why some of y’all act like Kazuya is some no name when Tekken is a juggernaut of a series.

I kind of feel the same way about Terry. He's a character with an incredibly rich legacy, spanning 30 years and ongoing. He's a symbol used to represent the company that owns him. And he provides neo geo representation. He's pretty much the ideal third party, but he existed outside the smash speculation bubble, so people question his inclusion, which I find kind of baffling.

 

[Opossum]

Parent tally? Parent tally.

Explicitly a Parent:


Optionally a Parent:


Will Eventually Be a Parent Due to Lineage Reasons:


I Mean, I Count You:


The Shadow Bugs Come From His Body So Destroying Subspace Saved Him a Killing in Child Support Technically:

 

[Wonder Smash]

Honestly, this knowing only Nintendo related stuff but being clueless about everything else is a bad look on the fanbase. It makes it seem like Smash fans (or Nintendo fans in general) don't play any other games besides the ones made by Nintendo.

To try to change topics, what series already in Smash do you feel isn’t well represented musically? As far as first party franchises go, I’d like to see a big improvement in Pokémon and Donkey Kong. There are so many great Pokémon battle themes and we typically get a lot of route themes not as well suited for battle. I’d have loved to hear the Chamion themes from the first two gens and many others. Donkey Kong has almost no music from Tropical Freeze, which is almost criminal. I’d also love to hear a lot more from the SNES DKC Trilogy beyond 10 versions of the intro stage from the first game.

Punch-Out!! - The Wii game has some awesome versions of the main theme (my personal favorites were Mr. Sandman and Doc Louis). Then there's also the Super Punch-Out!! themes, which could have made for some cool remixes. So the series has plenty of themes that could have been used and yet, it only has just 5 in Smash? I'm really disappointed with that. Surprised that wasn't a lot of outrage over that.

 

[Gengar84]

I kind of feel the same way about Terry. He's a character with an incredibly rich legacy, spanning 30 years and ongoing. He's a symbol used to represent the company that owns him. And he provides neo geo representation. He's pretty much the ideal third party, but he existed outside the smash speculation bubble, so people question his inclusion, which I find kind of baffling.

I knew of Terry beforehand because I played King of Fighters on an arcade cabinet years ago but I didn’t really realize how big he was at the time. Fatal Fury and King of Fighters never really had the same impression on me as other fighting games like Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear, and Tekken so it seemed a bit odd to get Terry before any of those. Killer Instinct was a personal favorite of mine but I know it’s not as popular as some others. Either way, I’m glad Terry’s in now because he’s one of my favorite characters to play in Smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, I just learned about Ken’s son last week. I’m surprised I forgot that one. Kazuya too because I was just talking about him and Jin earlier today. Not sure how I blanked on those lol. Bowser’s another obvious one I missed. We even have his kids in Smash.

TBF, are the Koopalings still considered Bowser's children, or was it retconned that Bowser Jr. is his only son? Not that it matters (my headcanon is that the Koopalings are his adoptive children, while Jr. is his biological son), but I'm always needing to double check that.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Fatal Fury to a degree falls into the Guilty Gear category of being highly revered in the fighting game community and in many ways seen as doing so many aspects of the genre so well, while rarely quite getting the same recognition outside it. It had a novelty of being a 2D fighting series that didn't divert to 3D, but the combination of stuff like SF Alpha and later Marvel vs. (Franchise) meant it often got overshadowed even with that sub-genre. Fatal Fury and KoF stuff in general rarely ever hit the lows of bigger IP's like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, but it also never hit their (commercial) highs either. Truth be told, FGC excepted, it probably falls out of lot of people's radars until they're reminded of it.

Its a bit like Bomberman in a way; its continued survival and ability to put out decent games after all this time and even with hits parent company's financial issues is a testament to its quality even if doesn't really get the big sales numbers.

 

[Gengar84]

TBF, are the Koopalings still considered Bowser's children, or was it retconned that Bowser Jr. is his only son? Not that it matters (my headcanon is that the Koopalings are his adoptive children, while Jr. is his biological son), but I'm always needing to double check that.

I feel like it was probably retconned but I still think of them as his kids. I watched a lot of Super Mario Bros. Super Show as a kid so it’s hard for me to think of them as anything else.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Punch-Out!! - The Wii game has some awesome versions of the main theme (my personal favorites were Mr. Sandman and Doc Louis). Then there's also the Super Punch-Out!! themes, which could have made for some cool remixes. So the series has plenty of themes that could have been used and yet, it only has just 5 in Smash? I'm really disappointed with that. Surprised that wasn't a lot of outrage over that.

Not just in music but Punch-Out is probably the worst representation from franchise with playable characters. No assist trophies despite the numerous boxers that could fit very well. No bosses despite the games being pretty much boss rush. Lack of music like you said. Even the stage is so generic and the default version in Ultimate doesn't even have the Punch-Out logo but the Smash logo for some reason (while in Smash 4 it was random between the two version).

 

[Gengar84]

Not just in music but Punch-Out is probably the worst representation from franchise with playable characters. No assist trophies despite the numerous boxers that could fit very well. No bosses despite the games being pretty much boss rush. Lack of music like you said. Even the stage is so generic and the default version in Ultimate doesn't even have the Punch-Out logo but the Smash logo for some reason (while in Smash 4 it was random between the two version).

Hey, I think the stage is great. It’s a perfect excuse for me to mod a ton of WWE music into Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

Parent tally? Parent tally.

Explicitly a Parent:


Optionally a Parent:


Will Eventually Be a Parent Due to Lineage Reasons:


I Mean, I Count You:


The Shadow Bugs Come From His Body So Destroying Subspace Saved Him a Killing in Child Support Technically:

isn't having kids in fates optional? so shouldn't corrin be in the second row? also do any byleth's endings mention kids?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Hey, I think the stage is great. It’s a perfect excuse for me to mod a ton of WWE music into Smash.

I think the setting itself is cool, it just doesn't feel "Punch-Out" enough. I mean, the fact that the stage was announced with the first trailer of Smash 4 and Little Mac got announced months later and pretty much nobody realised that it could be a Punch-Out stage before the character announcement is saying a lot.

 

[Opossum]

isn't having kids in fates optional? so shouldn't corrin be in the second row? also do any byleth's endings mention kids?

Kana is an established, named character you can fully make use of in the game. That's not the same as the others imo.

And yeah, some of Byleth's end cards mention children, such as their endings with Shamir, Manuela, and Sylvain.

 

[fogbadge]

Kana is an established, named character you can fully make use of in the game. That's not the same as the others imo.

And yeah, some of Byleth's end cards mention children, such as their endings with Shamir, Manuela, and Sylvain.

alright then

 

[TheLamerGamer]

To try to change topics, what series already in Smash do you feel isn’t well represented musically?

There are a lot of series I'd love to have their selection improved (I'm looking at you, Mother), but honestly, while I was super happy with it at the time, I can't help but be genuinely disappointed by the persona music selection in smash. Even disregarding the other megaten stuff they could've included, they're missing notable tracks from the games they did represent, anything from P2 (and 1, since aria of the soul is based on its P3 version), spinoffs, 3FES and Portable, the anime and movies. There's so much great music in the series, and they basically did the bare minimum.

Not including these two at least is criminal:

Also, while it wouldn't fit smash, shoutout to a contender for the best final boss theme in any game.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

As far as Persona music goes I wish we got the fighting game version of Reach out for the truth

For the third party, the obvious choice is Kingdom hearts. To be fair I get that dealing with Disney was probably super hard, but boy this franchise was done dirty musically. KH1 is arguably Yoko Shimomura weakest works, it's a huge shame that they had to stop with the first game.

It's annoying that they went specifically with KH1 music when KH2 is where all the bangers started to show up in KH games.

 

[Laniv]

TBF, are the Koopalings still considered Bowser's children, or was it retconned that Bowser Jr. is his only son? Not that it matters (my headcanon is that the Koopalings are his adoptive children, while Jr. is his biological son), but I'm always needing to double check that.

In 2012, Shigeru Miyamoto stated "Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bowser's only child is Bowser Jr., and we do not know who the mother is." (Source)

Most Mario fans, including me, reacted thusly:

 

[Idon]

It's annoying that they went specifically with KH1 music when KH2 is where all the bangers started to show up in KH games.

God this. Kh2+ is when they went the **** IN on the soundtracks, both in terms of emotion and hype.

In fact, Sora's general focus in smash on KH1 is perplexing when most people are fans of games beyond that.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I remember growing up most people specifically wanted Sora's KH2 design in smash, when he's taller.

I guess KH1 kid Sora fits more in line with the cartoony asthetic of smash instead of his teen look.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Japan likes the KH1 design more while the west like the KH2 design more.

Dunno how true that is though.

 

[Laniv]

The important part is, they added his DDD design, which as we all know, is his best design.

 

[fogbadge]

It's annoying that they went specifically with KH1 music when KH2 is where all the bangers started to show up in KH games.

yoko composes nothing but bangers

 

[TheLamerGamer]

It's annoying that they went specifically with KH1 music when KH2 is where all the bangers started to show up in KH games.

That's good to know, I haven't played the games (yet, I have the collection on playstation), and heard really good things about the soundtrack, but I heard the songs in smash, and with the exception of Dearly Beloved and Hand in Hand, they're all really mediocre in my opinion. Like, they're mostly well composed, but really don't fit smash, and most of them don't really jump out at me. It's a shame, because I was really happy for the people who wanted Sora, and I wanted the last pack to be as good as possible, but other than the stage's visuals, and Sora's actual design, I just can't make myself feel anything about it. I don't dislike it, I just don't really care.

 

[Perkilator]

To try to change topics, what series already in Smash do you feel isn’t well represented musically?

I’m still salty about Game & Watch Gallery not getting a single track in Smash ever.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

That's good to know, I haven't played the games (yet, I have the collection on playstation), and heard really good things about the soundtrack, but I heard the songs in smash, and with the exception of Dearly Beloved and Hand in Hand, they're all really mediocre in my opinion. Like, they're mostly well composed, but really don't fit smash, and most of them don't really jump out at me. It's a shame, because I was really happy for the people who wanted Sora, and I wanted the last pack to be as good as possible, but other than the stage's visuals, and Sora's actual design, I just can't make myself feel anything about it. I don't dislike it, I just don't really care.

It also probably doesnt help that they restricted themselves from using the battle themes from the Disney worlds and kept it to KH original stuff.

So songs like this couldnt show up

I really like Agrabah's battle theme.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

It also probably doesnt help that they restricted themselves from using the battle themes from the Disney worlds and kept it to KH original stuff.

So songs like this couldnt show up

I really like Agrabah's battle theme.

Huh, when he said they were avoiding world-specific themes, I assumed he meant actual disney film songs they wouldn't be able to get the rights to. This makes significantly less sense. I wonder if disney considers them more linked to their franchises than the other songs.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Huh, when he said they were avoiding world-specific themes, I assumed he meant actual disney film songs they wouldn't be able to get the rights to. This makes significantly less sense. I wonder if disney considers them more linked to their franchises than the other songs.

That's probably the answer since some of the Disney just use the music from the movies.

Like how in KH2 the battle theme for the Carribean is just the theme song for Pirates of the carribean.

This makes for a sick JRPG battle theme somehow.