Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[EarlTamm]

Geno is no longer divisive. He's the star of an upcoming smash hit game. All the old arguments are dead.

I really hope that is the case for the sake of a smoother speculation cycle for everyone when it comes to talks of the character, but I can't help but feel like there is going to be one big sticking point that's just going to pop up. Don't know what it will be, but I can see something like that happening.

 

[dream1ng]

Geno is no longer divisive. He's the star of an upcoming smash hit game. All the old arguments are dead.

Ok I'll remember he's not divisive when the fanbase spends the next like three years debating him

 

[Speed Weed]

the optimal Mario choice is Gooper Blooper

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, so too talk about something besides a story mode; I think I would’ve liked to see Steve as the extra sixth fighter of Fighters Pass of Vol. 1 and Dr. Eggman as the second fighter of Fighters Pass Vol. 2.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Okay, so too talk about something besides a story mode; I think I would’ve liked to see Steve as the extra sixth fighter of Fighters Pass of Vol. 1 and Dr. Eggman as the second fighter of Fighters Pass Vol. 2.

I mean, I suppose that’s fair but I would’ve liked to have seen Ryu Hayabusa as the Second Fighter of Vol. 2 this line of thinking can pretty much go with anyone’s most wanted character.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Where's the person who genuinely wants Friendly Floyd from that old Mario comic from Nintendo Power as the next Mario rep?
This comes from the man that wants an Oogtar Mii Costume (not kidding)

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ok I'll remember he's not divisive when the fanbase spends the next like three years debating him

We’ll see, I suppose. There will always be detractors but it is definitely safe to say that if there ever was a best chance for Geno- it’s now.

 

[FazDude]

friendly floyd walked so spamton could [hyperlink blocked]

 

[Ivander]

Waluigi is optimal Mario RPG choice

Ah yes, the game where Waluigi got to star without Wario. And the reason why Wario has never forgiven him and never suggested him for WarioWare.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Guys, don't get it twisted. Fawful is actually the optimal choice for a Mario RPG rep.

You. I like you. Keep talking.

 

[dream1ng]

We’ll see, I suppose. There will always be detractors but it is definitely safe to say that if there ever was a best chance for Geno- it’s now.

I agree.

That won't prevent contention though.

Right now there's divisiveness on whether Geno is divisive.

Also, we're currently operating with the existing roster fixed in our minds. What if there are cuts? Will Geno's optics not take a knock when there's also Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth and Sora to consider? Especially given that with cuts comes, presumably, abandonment of the goal to partition all vets to base. What if base comes and goes without Square representation? Or with only Cloud? Without multiple characters, DQ and KH can't really split themselves between base and DLC like FF did. And Square does seem to prefer being DLC. And there's only so much of it.

Geno very well may still make it. Some newcomers will have to get priority over some vets. But is there enough doubt to increase dissent? I suspect so.

 

[CannonStreak]

I agree.

That won't prevent contention though.

Right now there's divisiveness on whether Geno is divisive.

Also, we're currently operating with the existing roster fixed in our minds. What if there are cuts? Will Geno's optics not take a knock when there's also Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth and Sora to consider? Especially given that with cuts comes, presumably, abandonment of the goal to partition all vets to base. What if base comes and goes without Square representation? Or with only Cloud? Without multiple characters, DQ and KH can't really split themselves between base and DLC like FF did. And Square does seem to prefer being DLC. And there's only so much of it.

Geno very well may still make it. Some newcomers will have to get priority over some vets. But is there enough doubt to increase dissent? I suspect so.

With the old arguments being not alive at the moment (and they won't be for a while), among other things, I can at least hope they be rational about not wanting Geno in the next Smash, and try to come up with good reasons against him.

Why? Because coming up with good reasons at the least; I think that will be hard to do for Geno's detractors.

 

[Laniv]

Everyone knows the optimal Mario choice is... well, I don't think I need to say it.

With King Boo as a close second, of course.

 

[Wonder Smash]

With all these talk of Subspace and the Super Mario RPG remake, I was thinking since Nintendo owns a company like Monolith Soft, maybe they could make an RPG spinoff of Smash Bros?

Where's the person who genuinely wants Friendly Floyd from that old Mario comic from Nintendo Power as the next Mario rep?
This comes from the man that wants an Oogtar Mii Costume (not kidding)

Mario and Luigi: WAIT 'TIL I GET MY HANDS ON THAT FRIENDLY FLOYD!!

 

[EarlTamm]

I agree.

That won't prevent contention though.

Right now there's divisiveness on whether Geno is divisive.

Also, we're currently operating with the existing roster fixed in our minds. What if there are cuts? Will Geno's optics not take a knock when there's also Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth and Sora to consider? Especially given that with cuts comes, presumably, abandonment of the goal to partition all vets to base. What if base comes and goes without Square representation? Or with only Cloud? Without multiple characters, DQ and KH can't really split themselves between base and DLC like FF did. And Square does seem to prefer being DLC. And there's only so much of it.

Geno very well may still make it. Some newcomers will have to get priority over some vets. But is there enough doubt to increase dissent? I suspect so.

Yeah, things could get very messy depending on how many returning Square characters there are next time. I have a hard time believing even Sakurai and his insane clout could get them all back, let alone a new guy if Sakurai decides to leave the directer chair for good. I still think Geno comes out favorably despite this issue, but its going to cause a lot of conflict in speculation.

 

[dream1ng]

With the old arguments being not alive at the moment (and they won't be for a while), among other things, I can at least hope they be rational about not wanting Geno in the next Smash, and try to come up with good reasons against him.

Why? Because coming up with good reasons at the least; I think that will be hard to do for Geno's detractors.

Let's be clear that the old arguments are not just the salient points which are now weakened or invalidated by this new game. The old arguments are any arguments that were made regarding Geno, some of the points against him still being true, and some of the points for him still not actually being meaningful in the context of Smash.

Some of the old arguments are done. Like saying he hasn't had a game since the SNES. Or that he's only had one release. Or that Nintendo has no interest in SMRPG.

But he's still a spin-off character. He's still a very minor character in his series as a whole. He's still owned by Square. He's had more than one release, but he's still sort of a one-off, given it's the same game. SMRPG still isn't his game, it's Mario's.

On the other hand, it won't erase the old arguments for Geno that were never germane to begin with. People will still argue for him on the basis of representing the Mario RPGs, which he does, but not why he would get selected. Especially arguing on the basis of representing SMRPG specifically. Especially since they'd think this would be a promotional inclusion, which it wouldn't be. People will still invoke moveset potential, which is a useless argument since most characters have moveset potential.

People will still invoke Sakurai wanting him. Which isn't meaningless, but also, after failing to get him in over Square character after Square character, is also not as meaningful as its bandied about to be. Especially if its in a phase Nintendo is choosing.

It's not like Geno's slate has been wiped clean. He's doing better now, inarguably, but... a new release doesn't erase every argument against him, because not all of them were predicated on something a new release would fix. Especially just a remake.

So while I concur with people saying Geno's chances have markedly raised, it's still not hard to come up with reasons he wouldn't get in. Because he's Geno. His role begins and ends as a non-lead party member in a single spin-off (released twice, but still one game) in a series where one single spin-off isn't significant, especially if it's not MK. On one hand, the fanbase wants him, on the other, the GP knows so many other third-party characters better. Even the fanbase picks have to resonate past the fanbase to a certain threshold to justify selling this character over others.

Being current doesn't inherently make him nearly as ubiquitous as a myriad of other choices. And his popularity is strong, but incredibly localized. His role is that of a character no one would otherwise expect for Smash, even with a recent game, and demand may change his outcome. But it's no guarantee.

 

[SPEN18]

Toad, Waluigi, King Boo...not gonna argue with any of those fine choices.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah, things could get very messy depending on how many returning Square characters there are next time. I have a hard time believing even Sakurai and his insane clout could get them all back, let alone a new guy if Sakurai decides to leave the directer chair for good. I still think Geno comes out favorably despite this issue, but its going to cause a lot of conflict in speculation.

Well it's not really about clout, it's about time and resources. With cuts that aren't simply due to licensing, they're not going to be able to bring a lot of characters back, the roster will shrink, and then it becomes a question of who gets prioritized.

I suspect Sakurai could get all of them back and add Geno if that was his priority, and Nintendo was on board with it. Of course, that would mean other parts of the roster would be sacrificed. Because if this isn't a port, you won't be able to bring back everyone.

 

[EarlTamm]

Well it's not really about clout, it's about time and resources. With cuts that aren't simply due to licensing, they're not going to be able to bring a lot of characters back, the roster will shrink, and then it becomes a question of who gets prioritized.

I suspect Sakurai could get all of them back and add Geno if that was his priority, and Nintendo was on board with it. Of course, that would mean other parts of the roster would be sacrificed. Because if this isn't a port, you won't be able to bring back everyone.

I don't imagine getting everyone back would even be a goal for Sakurai if he was still leading development. He's been pretty blunt on how what has done can not be repeated, and I don't imagine he would even try to fight that loosing battle.

 

[CannonStreak]

Let's be clear that the old arguments are not just the salient points which are now weakened or invalidated by this new game. The old arguments are any arguments that were made regarding Geno, some of the points against him still being true, and some of the points for him still not actually being meaningful in the context of Smash.

Some of the old arguments are done. Like saying he hasn't had a game since the SNES. Or that he's only had one release. Or that Nintendo has no interest in SMRPG.

But he's still a spin-off character. He's still a very minor character in his series as a whole. He's still owned by Square. He's had more than one release, but he's still sort of a one-off, given it's the same game. SMRPG still isn't his game, it's Mario's.

On the other hand, it won't erase the old arguments for Geno that were never germane to begin with. People will still argue for him on the basis of representing the Mario RPGs, which he does, but not why he would get selected. Especially arguing on the basis of representing SMRPG specifically. Especially since they'd think this would be a promotional inclusion, which it wouldn't be. People will still invoke moveset potential, which is a useless argument since most characters have moveset potential.

People will still invoke Sakurai wanting him. Which isn't meaningless, but also, after failing to get him in over Square character after Square character, is also not as meaningful as its bandied about to be. Especially if its in a phase Nintendo is choosing.

It's not like Geno's slate has been wiped clean. He's doing better now, inarguably, but... a new release doesn't erase every argument against him, because not all of them were predicated on something a new release would fix. Especially just a remake.

So while I concur with people saying Geno's chances have markedly raised, it's still not hard to come up with reasons he wouldn't get in. Because he's Geno. His role begins and ends as a non-lead party member in a single spin-off (released twice, but still one game) in a series where one single spin-off isn't significant, especially if it's not MK. On one hand, the fanbase wants him, on the other, the GP knows so many other third-party characters better. Even the fanbase picks have to resonate past the fanbase to a certain threshold to justify selling this character over others.

Being current doesn't inherently make him nearly as ubiquitous as a myriad of other choices. And his popularity is strong, but incredibly localized. His role is that of a character no one would otherwise expect for Smash, even with a recent game, and demand may change his outcome. But it's no guarantee.

I knew some of the old arguments can still be brought up. Still, when I said for now, I meant some of the old arguments may be revived over time if Geno does not get into next game. I should have made that clear, should I?

But still, the arguments you listed, First off, Geno is not a minor character. That would be something like one of the towns people in any town in the game. Geno has a much more important role in that. Even if he is not the main character of his own game, know that while Sephiroth was not really like Geno in that role, as he was more so the villain of Final Fantasy VII, but that broke the thought that some people had that only one character could represent their respective series if they were third party. As for being a spin off character, there are other spin of characters that are wanted, like Waluigi. Now, I know Waluigi has been in more games than Geno, is an actual Nintendo character (though Camelot made him), yada yada yada, but he is a spin off character, nonetheless, and that should count if anything. Sure, Waluigi is not yet playable in Smash, but he is pretty damn wanted and popular, and other spin off characters from different games I can imagine may be popular as well, even if there aren't too many. Plus, should the case of third party characters and the case of first party characters really matter? In the end, it is just video games. The same should go for characters that don't star in their own games as third parties. Sakurai wanted Geno in Smash before, and he was considered for the fourth game, so if anything, he does not care. As for the remake still being a one off, well, while these are Nintendo games (and not referring to the characters in those games, mind you), check to see if Duck Hunt and Ice Climber got any remakes of their game and tell me. They may be older than Super Mario RPG, but Super Mario RPG is still old, a classic, in fact.

Look, I am in no hurry to see Geno in the next Smash, and I know and accept that may not happen, but some of the other things you said were putting words in my mouth, as in saying as if I actually thought Geno was wiped clean completely from the things against him. I did not say that. Plus, the reasons you gave for why Geno could not be in the next Smash? I know detractors will still use these, but to be honest, I said what I said above because I honestly thought that, at this point, those reasons were rather...weak.

 

[Perkilator]

Toad, Waluigi, King Boo...not gonna argue with any of those fine choices.

I’d even argue Pauline, given her increased prominence in Odyssey and the years since.

 

[SPEN18]

I’d even argue Pauline, given her increased prominence in Odyssey and the years since.

I would put her in the next tier below the other three. But yeah on the radar for sure.

 

[Delzethin]

I think this Mario discourse shows just how much of a logjam the series has right now when it comes to newcomers. Especially with the wild card that is Geno--we don't know if he'd be filed under Mario characters or treated separately because he's under a different company's wing.

Will say this, though: If the next game has as many newcomers in the base roster as every game before Ultimate did, getting two Mario newcomers is very possible because there're so many options from the series who have legit arguments and standout abilities.

 

[dream1ng]

I knew some of the old arguments can still be brought up. Still, when I said for now, I meant some of the old arguments may be revived over time if Geno does not get into next game. I should have made that clear, should I?

Well, some of those arguments are valid right now, and will continue to be valid until something fundamentally changes regarding Geno. For example, there is no end foreseeable to Geno being a spin-off character owned by Square. Even if we get a SMRPG2, he will still be those things.

It's true that the arguments of dormancy may be revived if things don't pan out for him or the future of SMRPG, but those weren't all the old arguments.

But still, the arguments you listed, First off, Geno is not a minor character. That would be something like one of the towns people in any town in the game. Geno has a much more important role in that. Even if he is not the main character of his own game, know that while Sephiroth was not really like Geno in that role, as he was more so the villain of Final Fantasy VII, but that broke the thought that some people had that only one character could represent their respective series if they were third party.

Read the rest of that sentence. He's a very minor character in his series as a whole.

As for being a spin off character, there are other spin of characters that are wanted, like Waluigi. Now, I know Waluigi has been in more games than Geno, is an actual Nintendo character (though Camelot made him), yada yada yada, but he is a spin off character, nonetheless, and that should count if anything. Sure, Waluigi is not yet playable in Smash, but he is pretty damn wanted and popular, and other spin off characters from different games I can imagine may be popular as well, even if there aren't too many.

Characters that aren't yet included aren't good counterpoints for why that wouldn't matter.

Waluigi is a spin-off character, and it's a mark against him too. He's got a great shot, but he's Waluigi. And this is the sixth Smash Bros game, by the time he's playable, there will have been over 100 fighters in this series. And his series already has nine characters (not counting Yoshi and Wario), which really narrows down the remaining competition. And he's Waluigi.

Plus, should the case of third party characters and the case of first party characters really matter? In the end, it is just video games. The same should go for characters that don't star in their own games as third parties. Sakurai wanted Geno in Smash before, and he was considered for the fourth game, so if anything, he does not care.

In general it shouldn't matter. That's why people want both first and third parties.

In terms of gauging chances, of course it matters. The two get in very differently.

Also Geno was considered for Brawl, not 4.

As for the remake still being a one off, well, while these are Nintendo games (and not referring to the characters in those games, mind you), check to see if Duck Hunt and Ice Climber got any remakes of their game and tell me. They may be older than Super Mario RPG, but Super Mario RPG is still old, a classic, in fact.

Ice Climber got in because Sakurai allocated a spot for an NES character. That spot no longer exists, and Geno wouldn't fit anyway. This point has all the relevance of suggesting we could still get a Japanese-only character because we did in Melee. Criteria requirements change.

Duck Hunt got in as the surprise character. Geno wouldn't fit that either.

Also you're focusing on them being one-offs, looking past the fact that neither are spin-off characters, neither are third-parties, and all are main characters in their series. Even if that series is just one game.

Different spots have different criteria. Geno would get in as a fanbase pick. Those also eschew some typical criteria, like being current (ironically not a problem for Geno anymore) but, for non-rotational series, being a one-off is a hindrance that only gets bigger the more the series exists past your one title.

Look, I am in no hurry to see Geno in the next Smash, and I know and accept that may not happen, but some of the other things you said were putting words in my mouth, as in saying as if I actually thought Geno was wiped clean completely from the things against him. I did not say that.

Well, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, so I'm sorry if I did, but you said the old arguments weren't alive right now. Which isn't true. There are plenty of the old arguments still alive. If you just meant the dormancy-related ones, that wasn't specified.

I mean, in terms of there possibly not being a Smash in development right now, it's true that nothing is 'alive' right now Smash-wise, but that would be the case for all characters, all arguments, and the same before this remake was revealed.

Plus, the reasons you gave for why Geno could not be in the next Smash? I know detractors will still use these, but to be honest, I said what I said above because I honestly thought that, at this point, those reasons were rather...weak.

So, if these other points are weak, am I to think that of the factors that held Geno back, being a "dormant spin-off, one-off, third-party who was minor in his series" the only part of that that holds weight is the dormant part? Because that's the only one that's changed.

That wouldn't even make sense considering dormancy is one of the things enough fan demand has already proven it can overcome. Were dormancy the only thing holding Geno back, were raising the other factors weak detraction... then that's basically suggesting

a mainline, recurring, major first-party
and
a spin-off, one-off, minor third-party

Have very little separating them.

But even if Geno was as dormant as could be, were he a mainline, recurring, major first-party, with the popularity he has, he would've gotten in a long time ago. Probably in Brawl.

That's not to say Geno won't get in. But Geno getting in would happen in spite of his remaining negatives. Not because he has none left.

One of the problems is you can't split up these obstacles and address each one with a different counterexample, because that misses the point that these all apply to the same character. Each one knocks him down further. Now one has been removed, and maybe the newfound absence of that impediment mixed with his popularity will bring him to the threshold of inclusion... but the points against him can't be addressed in isolation of each other. It's cumulative.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, some of those arguments are valid right now, and will continue to be valid until something fundamentally changes regarding Geno. For example, there is no end foreseeable to Geno being a spin-off character owned by Square. Even if we get a SMRPG2, he will still be those things.


Read the rest of that sentence. He's a very minor character in his series as a whole.


Characters that aren't yet included aren't good counterpoints for why that wouldn't matter.

Waluigi is a spin-off character, and it's a mark against him too. He's got a great shot, but he's Waluigi. And this is the sixth Smash Bros game, by the time he's playable, there will have been over 100 fighters in this series. And his series already has nine characters (not counting Yoshi and Wario), which really narrows down the remaining competition. And he's Waluigi.


In general it shouldn't matter. That's why people want both first and third parties.

In terms of gauging chances, of course it matters. The two get in very differently.

Also Geno was considered for Brawl, not 4.


Ice Climber got in because Sakurai allocated a spot for an NES character. That spot no longer exists, and Geno wouldn't fit anyway. This point has all the relevance of suggesting we could still get a Japanese-only character because we did in Melee. Criteria requirements change.

Duck Hunt got in as the surprise character. Geno wouldn't fit that either.

Also you're focusing on them being one-offs, looking past the fact that neither are spin-off characters, neither are third-parties, and all are main characters in their series. Even if that series is just one game.

Different spots have different criteria. Geno would get in as a fanbase pick. Those also eschew some typical criteria, like being current (ironically not a problem for Geno anymore) but, for non-rotational series, being a one-off is a hindrance that only gets bigger the more the series exists past your one title.


Well, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, so I'm sorry if I did, but you said the old arguments weren't alive right now. Which isn't true. There are plenty of the old arguments still alive.

I mean, in terms of there possibly not being a Smash in development right now, it's true that nothing is 'alive' right now Smash-wise, but that would be the case for all characters, all arguments, and the same before this remake was revealed.


So, if these other points are weak, am I to think that of the factors that held Geno back, being a "dormant spin-off, one-off, third-party who was minor in his series" the only part of that that holds weight is the dormant part? Because that's the only one that's changed.

That wouldn't even make sense considering dormancy is one of the things enough fan demand has already proven it can overcome. Were dormancy the only thing holding Geno back, were raising the other factors weak detraction... then that's basically suggesting

a mainline, recurring, major first-party
and
a spin-off, one-off, minor third-party

Have very little separating them.

But even if Geno was as dormant as could be, were he a mainline, recurring, major first-party, with the popularity he has, he would've gotten in a long time ago. Probably in Brawl.

That's not to say Geno won't get in. But Geno getting in would happen in spite of his remaining negatives. Not because he has none left.

One of the problems is you can't split up these obstacles and address each one with a different counterexample, because that misses the point that these all apply to the same character. Each one knocks him down further. Now one has been removed, and maybe the newfound absence of that impediment mixed with his popularity will bring him to the threshold of inclusion... but the points against him can't be addressed in isolation of each other. It's cumulative.

Oh, brother...

Honestly, you are starting to (seemingly) act like you are one of the detractors (No offense). Detractors in the past have tried to use logic or thoughts, or so called "fan rules" which were used as to why certain characters they want could not get in. You are starting to seem like one of those. Right or wrong, things can change, and a lot of things have happened that proved those detractors wrong. Nothing is really set in stone for any character. I am starting to think, again, no offense, that you are no better than the detractors with what you say. That does not mean I am a hardcore Geno fan or I seriously want him in, but if you think your points were to be strong, I would have to disagree.

Also, Geno was considered for both games, Brawl and 4 (as DLC), and in the case of 4, he was considered before Cloud. As for the Ice Climber and Duck Hunt, I don't you think that changes anything, as I don't think the criteria thing matters as much as you think. I was not saying Geno would not fit as what Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt were. They were still games, and those are still characters. Plus, the mark against Waluigi being a spinoff character sounds like you are being a detractor, which, considering how many things fans got wrong when saying characters couldn't get in, is not helping your case. Plus, Ice Climber and Duck Hunt not being anything Geno and Super Mario RPG are does not matter, despite the differences, they are still eligible for Smash, no matter who they are as long as they are video game characters. You just seem to be twisting things to try and make your point strong. And by the way, if you think Geno is a minor character, you don't seem to know what minor characters are. (Again, no offense)

Whether intentional or not, what you are saying only makes you seem like you are against Geno, like how anyone can be against any character. I am sure you did not make the rules of how characters get into Smash, so I do not see much reason to see things your way. Sorry, but I don't. Different criteria does not detract from characters having a shot. Also, there are no spots, or slots. The spots thing is why people argue against characters making it in in the first place. The roster of Smash games, with some exceptions like Sonic in Brawl, is predetermined. They may be picked out before hand to an extent, but the roster is still predetermined, regardless of what fans want or what fans have against any character. It is not like there are extra spots are available before hand and characters have a chance as a game is being made, not counting the case of Sonic in Brawl, that is.

And while I did say that the Geno's points against him were not alive, I did not mean all of them. I should have clarified that. That said, Geno is still technically from a Mario game, so while he is third party, it would have been a different case altogether if he were not from a Mario game, as I am sure being from a Mario game, no matter what it is or who makes it, helps his case more.

 

[Will]

Only on Smashboards can you find dudes typing out 1,400-Word essays solely dedicated to hating on a JRPG character.

Yeah, I counted it.

 

[Soy_Man]

Oh, brother...

Honestly, you are starting to (seemingly) act like you are one of the detractors (No offense). Detractors in the past have tried to use logic or thoughts, or so called "fan rules" which were used as to why certain characters they want could not get in. You are starting to seem like one of those. Right or wrong, things can change, and a lot of things have happened that proved those detractors wrong. Nothing is really set in stone for any character. I am starting to think, again, no offense, that you are no better than the detractors with what you say. That does not mean I am a hardcore Geno fan or I seriously want him in, but if you think your points were to be strong, I would have to disagree.

Also, Geno was considered for both games, Brawl and 4 (as DLC), and in the case of 4, he was considered before Cloud. As for the Ice Climber and Duck Hunt, I don't you think that changes anything, as I don't think the criteria thing matters as much as you think. I was not saying Geno would not fit as what Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt were. They were still games, and those are still characters. Plus, the mark against Waluigi being a spinoff character sounds like you are being a detractor, which, considering how many things fans got wrong when saying characters couldn't get in, is not helping your case. Plus, Ice Climber and Duck Hunt not being anything Geno and Super Mario RPG are does not matter, despite the differences, they are still eligible for Smash, no matter who they are as long as they are video game characters. You just seem to be twisting things to try and make your point strong. And by the way, if you think Geno is a minor character, you don't seem to know what minor characters are. (Again, no offense)

Whether intentional or not, what you are saying only makes you seem like you are against Geno, like how anyone can be against any character. I am sure you did not make the rules of how characters get into Smash, so I do not see much reason to see things your way. Sorry, but I don't. Different criteria does not detract from characters having a shot. Also, there are no spots, or slots. The spots thing is why people argue against characters making it in in the first place. The roster of Smash games, with some exceptions like Sonic in Brawl, is predetermined. They may be picked out before hand to an extent, but the roster is still predetermined, regardless of what fans want or what fans have against any character. It is not like there are extra spots are available before hand and characters have a chance as a game is being made, not counting the case of Sonic in Brawl, that is.

And while I did say that the Geno's points against him were not alive, I did not mean all of them. I should have clarified that. That said, Geno is still technically from a Mario game, so while he is third party, it would have been a different case altogether if he were not from a Mario game, as I am sure being from a Mario game, no matter what it is or who makes it, helps his case more.

I think dream1ng's point is that there are various aspects that make a character a good choice to put in the game and Geno is lacking in some of them. I would argue that almost everyone on the roster possesses some of these aspects to various degrees of strength, so assessing potential newcomers based on a criteria seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. As long as you're not being biased.

This isn't even about eligibility or likeliness. I don't think dream1ng ever said that Geno CAN'T get in. it's just about what artistic decisions we think are good for the game.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think dream1ng's point is that there are various aspects that make a character a good choice to put in the game and Geno is lacking in some of them. I would argue that almost everyone on the roster possesses some of these aspects to various degrees of strength, so assessing potential newcomers based on a criteria seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. As long as you're not being biased.

This isn't even about eligibility or likeliness. I don't think dream1ng ever said that Geno CAN'T get in. it's just about what artistic decisions we think are good for the game.

Oh, believe me, I know, on all counts. I just believe the arguments against him have been weakened or are weak. The ones dream1ng mentioned, anyway.

 

[Stratos]

It was a big surprise to me that Princess Daisy will be back in a 2D Mario game and of course I'm talking and writing about Super Mario Bros. Wonder as a playable character. It's partly unnecessary, but maybe in the future they'll decide to have her star in her own game called 'Super Princess Daisy'.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I suspect Sakurai could get all of them back and add Geno if that was his priority, and Nintendo was on board with it. Of course, that would mean other parts of the roster would be sacrificed. Because if this isn't a port, you won't be able to bring back everyone.

Pretty much. Outside of a Deluxe edition, bringing back everyone in the base game is virtually impossible (though bringing characters back through DLC is somewhat more realistic). And even in the case of a port, I don’t think many people believe there is a real chance for that port to happen.

On a slightly different topic, unless Nintendo makes a new ballot, any roster choices based off fan demand will be based on the 2015 ballot.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Geno's certainly doing a lot better than now with the SMRPG remake. Though the issue he still faces is that he's competing with other Mario characters like (Captain) Toad and Waluigi on one hand and other third parties, especially Square Third Parties(mainly Nier and to a lesser extent stuff like Bravely Default), on the other. If the remake does really well and/or gets a sequel, I think that's what will really let Geno pull ahead.

It was a big surprise to me that Princess Daisy will be back in a 2D Mario game and of course I'm talking and writing about Super Mario Bros. Wonder as a playable character. It's partly unnecessary, but maybe in the future they'll decide to have her star in her own game called 'Super Princess Daisy'.

I don't think we'll be seeing any Daisy-led games for a while. Luigi and Peach only got theirs after being mainstays for a good 20ish years(though it goes down to 10 for Luigi if you count Mario is Missing). What I think is more likely in the immediate future is that she might show up as a player two/supporting role in Peach games like the one they just announced. Then she might have a game of her own later.

 

[fogbadge]

Only on Smashboards can you find dudes typing out 1,400-Word essays solely dedicated to hating on a JRPG character.

oh i don't think it's only on here

 

[Sucumbio]

I recall someone here being a FNAF fan. There's gonna be a movie apparently! I've never played it but I may watch this movie.

 

[fogbadge]

I recall someone here being a FNAF fan. There's gonna be a movie apparently! I've never played it but I may watch this movie.

you should see the list of green lit game films

 

[Sucumbio]

you should see the list of green lit game films

Until Metroid is on the list I will be disappoint.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Bit of a bummer that the character interaction got snuff out so easily. There was interesting discussion that was brewing so it's died so quick due, let say controversy and backlash for wanting a crossover to be more.

It's when you point out that other games have done better than Smash in certain regards that the pushback to wanting Smash to be a better crossover with "I don't want KH nonsense" or "But my resources" or quite literally making **** up about other games just becomes insecurity.

Or "Just want characters to fight" or "the game or franchises". Yeah, these response are very silly especially the Kingdom Hearts part. Idk why KH is usually punching bag or nonsensical using it's crossover elements to make something special. I'll be honest, i still choose Smash over most of these crossover as there is nothing like it but still.



On other news tho.

This, no real follow or capitalization of Crash from 4, The FTC drama with Microsoft and Activision etc. It's unfortunately safe to say that things aren't looking good for Crash.

A week after launch, Crash Team Rumble is struggling on Twitch.https://t.co/VxCQsFcjWD pic.twitter.com/j0B4DCETcZ

— VGC (@VGC_News) June 30, 2023

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I've got a fun little game for y'all.


You are transported back in time to when Sakurai is making the next Smash and are helping out. You are asked to give feedback on the roster. The main catch for this is you can't just suggest your favorites outright. You have to make a seasoned argument to replace a character with one of the same series or type. So you can't just say "let me replace Dark Pit with Isaac" or something like that. You need to make sure the character is scratching the same itch or a similkar one the original character did. It's also an easy way to say we can't just sub a low effort clone or echo for your dream character.

Here I'll start.

Jigglypuff -> Meowth: I understand why we are considering Jigglypuff for Smash. She is popular and relevant to the anime now, but I think Meowth is moreso. She can be easy to make, but we could in theory make Meowth easy as well. We can lift a few moves from Pikachu, Fox, and so on to make the Scratch Cat Pokemon work out in the end. I also think with how Pokemon Marketing is right now in the late 90s, we might want to lean into the anime further and choose the second most recurring Pokemon.

You can go either more or less in depth than this, idrc. It's just a fun thought experiment.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Detractors in the past have tried to use logic or thoughts

How dare they think or use logic

After reading the last few pages I'm glad to see this place hasn't changed at all since I left after the dlc ended. I'd assumed speculation would be practically nonexistent at this stage, but I guess not.

Speaking of speculation, I think smash isn't actually the most likely game for geno to be dlc. I have a gut feeling that he and mallow will be the final 2 dlc characters for mario kart (which would obviously make them seem more likely for smash).

 

[CannonStreak]

How dare they think or use logic

After reading the last few pages I'm glad to see this place hasn't changed at all since I left after the dlc ended. I'd assumed speculation would be practically nonexistent at this stage, but I guess not.

Speaking of speculation, I think smash isn't actually the most likely game for geno to be dlc. I have a gut feeling that he and mallow will be the final 2 dlc characters for mario kart (which would obviously make them seem more likely for smash).

I’d say something, other than I think the logic is weak for now, but that’s it. I don’t want to go in another full blown rant. LOL

 

[Dukefire]

People that goes into a rant that can be lengthy, I can say that one has A LOT of time to think about on getting attention for trolls and/or just sauerkraut the character is gaining fame again. (actual food is tangy and smell sour)