Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

Bit of a bummer that the character interaction got snuff out so easily. There was interesting discussion that was brewing so it's died so quick due, let say controversy and backlash for wanting a crossover to be more.

There wasn't a backlash for wanting character interaction. Nobody was arguing against it as far as I know. The problem was certain people trying to force what they want on others. You're just going to have to accept that it's just a difference in opinions and just because you're not satisfied with something, doesn't mean it's a problem with the game.

Or "Just want characters to fight" or "the game or franchises". Yeah, these response are very silly especially the Kingdom Hearts part. Idk why KH is usually punching bag or nonsensical using it's crossover elements to make something special. I'll be honest, i still choose Smash over most of these crossover as there is nothing like it but still.

See? That's the problem right there. You guys need to chill with your attitudes. My response was not silly. Seeing characters from all these games coming together has always been the point of the Smash Bros series and with how it's done, I'm satisfied with just that. It's not hard to see why I'm not complaining about that. But I'm glad you say you choose Smash over other crossovers as there is "nothing like it" because now you know why I'd rather stick to that instead of choosing MUGEN.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Only on Smashboards can you find dudes typing out 1,400-Word essays solely dedicated to hating on a JRPG character.

View attachment 374108

Yeah, I counted it.

Arguing the likelihood of a character =/= hating on the character.

 

[Sucumbio]

Oh, been a long time since the call out phase of smashboards speculation.

umm.... Hmm... Nothing to report.

 

[Brother AJ]

Hi all! It's hard to know what exactly the future holds for the Smash series. While it will no doubt continue to be amazing, I can't help but think we're going to feel underwhelmed at this point if certain characters don't return. I think, for a lot of people, this sense of emptiness will depend on whether or not certain 3rd party characters will return and they are obviously the most at risk of getting the axe.

While I do think it's likely that we could get most of them returning, I really doubt we'll get them all. The biggest issue I think is whether or not the companies can cooperate and find the time to make these characters happen again, not whether they actually want the promotion. That said, who would leave the biggest hole in the game if they didn't come back?

I don't really want to cut anyone, but losing any of the Brawl and Smash 4 characters would just feel horrendous as they're all huge and historical gaming icons (except Bayonetta, but she's probably not going anywhere). They've also all been in a Smash game at least twice, so I think they've got decent chances regardless.



For Ultimate I really want to keep the Belmonts, Ken, Sora, and the Microsoft characters as they would feel like the biggest omissions now that we have them. This is due to Banjo Kazooie and Castlevania originating on Nintendo, Minecraft being Minecraft, and Sora winning the ballot. However, if Namco develops again and we get Cloud back we'll no doubt get Kazuya and Sephiroth regardless if the game can live without them.



TLDR: IMHO Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-man, Ryu and Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon and Richter, Banjo and Kazooie, Steve, and Sora should all definitely return for the next game. Who do you think would be the biggest omissions?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I've got a fun little game for y'all.


You are transported back in time to when Sakurai is making the next Smash and are helping out. You are asked to give feedback on the roster. The main catch for this is you can't just suggest your favorites outright. You have to make a seasoned argument to replace a character with one of the same series or type. So you can't just say "let me replace Dark Pit with Isaac" or something like that. You need to make sure the character is scratching the same itch or a similkar one the original character did. It's also an easy way to say we can't just sub a low effort clone or echo for your dream character.

Here I'll start.

Jigglypuff -> Meowth: I understand why we are considering Jigglypuff for Smash. She is popular and relevant to the anime now, but I think Meowth is moreso. She can be easy to make, but we could in theory make Meowth easy as well. We can lift a few moves from Pikachu, Fox, and so on to make the Scratch Cat Pokemon work out in the end. I also think with how Pokemon Marketing is right now in the late 90s, we might want to lean into the anime further and choose the second most recurring Pokemon.

You can go either more or less in depth than this, idrc. It's just a fun thought experiment.

Melee: swap Sheik for Diddy Kong and Ice Climbers for Pit. Swap Dr. Mario for a semi cloned version of Wario, with the trade off of Luigi now being a full Mario clone again (you know this will get rectified in another title so don't blame me).

Brawl: remove Pokemon Trainer but keep Charizard, add Mewtwo back in, and if possible Roy too. Perfect roster, especially for it's time.

 

[Pupp135]

I've got a fun little game for y'all.


You are transported back in time to when Sakurai is making the next Smash and are helping out. You are asked to give feedback on the roster. The main catch for this is you can't just suggest your favorites outright. You have to make a seasoned argument to replace a character with one of the same series or type. So you can't just say "let me replace Dark Pit with Isaac" or something like that. You need to make sure the character is scratching the same itch or a similkar one the original character did. It's also an easy way to say we can't just sub a low effort clone or echo for your dream character.

Here I'll start.

Jigglypuff -> Meowth: I understand why we are considering Jigglypuff for Smash. She is popular and relevant to the anime now, but I think Meowth is moreso. She can be easy to make, but we could in theory make Meowth easy as well. We can lift a few moves from Pikachu, Fox, and so on to make the Scratch Cat Pokemon work out in the end. I also think with how Pokemon Marketing is right now in the late 90s, we might want to lean into the anime further and choose the second most recurring Pokemon.

You can go either more or less in depth than this, idrc. It's just a fun thought experiment.

If I was a codirector with foresight, the only things that I could see myself recommending are the following:
Give Ganondorf his sword back in Brawl and maybe give him a projectile down the line. I‘d probably just recommend to ignore Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik, and Dixie Kong for this to work (I don’t think PraiMai was necessarily Plusle/Minun).
Maybe figure out a way to add Chrom into For and push Lucina to Ultimate as he was requested even after missing the cut in For. Maybe this can be done by telling Sakurai to not work on the Ice Climbers, Chorus Kids, and if applicable, Ivysaur, and Squirtle in For given 3DS limitations.
I’d want to replace Sephiroth with Tidus, but that’s just bias, and I don’t think I can make a convincing argument for this change as we have 3 Awakening characters and 6 Kanto pokemon, so Sephiroth stays.

Spoiler: Resons

64
The only character that usually gets questioned here is Jigglypuff, but it cannot be realistically replaced with another pokemon outside of Raichu, and Jigglypuff seems more interesting than Raichu. In terms of semi-clones, I feel like Dk Jr. would be the best alternative if I were to replace Jigglypuff with someone (I prefer Jigglypuff, so it stays) given that I don’t want to use development time in Melee to declone Wario or Marth, and Birdo before Bowser or Peach would personally be more jarring than Jigglypuff before Charizard, Meowth, or Mewtwo.
Melee
In terms of the unique fighters, Sheik and Ice Climbers tend to get the most criticism, and it doesn’t help that transforming characters and Ice Climbers are very taxing, but I’d still want them. In this scenario, if I removed Sheik, I’d either need to one of the three: give a different newcomer a transformation, drop Zelda also and add a different transforming character, or declone Ganondorf. The third option seems the most reasonable, but I’d rather keep Zelda/Sheik as they were in Melee as a transforming fighter seems like a cool idea, and it gives us a base for Pokemon Trainer and Mythra down the road, and Ganondorf’s moveset seems well received with casuals. For Ice Climbers, I think their gimmick is worth the trouble even if a more historically prominent retro could be chosen instead like Excitebike Rider, Little Mac, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., or Pit.
I also entertained replacing Dr. Mario with Daisy as she becomes a spin-off regular and a requested fighter later on, but it makes Brawl and For messy as Wolf would be dropped in Brawl, and Bowser Jr./Jigglypuff would be dropped in For.
Brawl
The only fighters that I could see myself considering to replace are Zero Suit Samus or Pokemon Trainer. Zero Suit Samus stays as Ridley seemed cool as a boss, and there wasn’t really much to work with for Midna at the time of planning. If I dropped Pokemon Trainer, I’d need to add other stance fighters, or I need to come up with two Pokemon that are not Charizard. While Mewtwo is an obvious choice, there isn’t a second pokemon that I’d want, and I’d rather keep Pokemon Trainer in this case as the mechanic is cool, and the trainer is the player character of the series.
For
The only things that I’d really entertain are replacing Lucina and Corrin with other characters. If Lucina was replaced, Chrom would take her spot, and she’d just join in Ultimate instead as Chrom’s echo, but Chrom would probably require more time than Lucina, so I don’t know if this would even work. Corrin is probably the most hated inclusion in the series, but given that the character had to be promotional, the other options would really be Elma/Cross or a Rhythm Heaven fighter. I still kept Corrin as Fates was more marketable compared to the other games, and Xenoblade would probably become a scapegoat with it having two newcomers in a game but no Ridley/K. Rool and then with Xenoblade surpassing DK/Kirby in terms of fighter count in Ultimate.
Ultimate
There’s nothing for me to question here, and I’d just want Tidus over Sephiroth because I like FFX, but there’s not really a convincing argument to add Tidus over Sephiroth.

 

[Sucumbio]

Honestly, I think game dev bosses are all holding their breath while the world reminds Microsoft they're not God, or even fairly treated, because reasons. Meanwhile game dev workers are plunking away on whatever doomed project that might get green lit, or are hopefully on an active game and aren't at a shady company.

What that means is the next Smash is still far enough off that cuts discussion can turn nihilistic, but can also open wider questions. As such, I think the safest bet right now, because of the aforementioned environment in game development, is to not count anyone out just yet. But personally I think Miis may be redeveloped. As for 3rd party I'm least expecting Steve to return. I'm most expecting Byleth Aegis to return. Wait .. dlcs lol

 

[CapitaineCrash]

On a slightly different topic, unless Nintendo makes a new ballot, any roster choices based off fan demand will be based on the 2015 ballot.

I highly disagree on this. I mean, we know that Sakurai was aware of fan demand outside of the ballot even for Ultimate because he acknowledge Sans' popularity despite Undertale releasing pretty much at the end of the ballot so he couldn't get that many votes. Besides, limiting fan demand for characters that were popular 10 years ago by the time the next Smash release would just be a very stupid decision. They don't need a ballot to see who's popular, past Smash as plenty of popular picks like Mega Man in Smash 4.

This, no real follow or capitalization of Crash from 4, The FTC drama with Microsoft and Activision etc. It's unfortunately safe to say that things aren't looking good for Crash.

A week after launch, Crash Team Rumble is struggling on Twitch.https://t.co/VxCQsFcjWD pic.twitter.com/j0B4DCETcZ

— VGC (@VGC_News) June 30, 2023

I don't think a spin-off underperforming really hurt Crash chances. He's so popular that it doesn't matter. The FTC drama will more than likely be over by the time the next Smash release so I don't think the case will really hurt his chances. Even if Microsoft wins or lose the case, I don't think his chances will change too much, if anything I think he might have slightly bigger chances under Microsoft because they already have characters in Smash, but even if Microsoft lose I think he have fair chances under Activision.

 

[Soy_Man]

Hi all! It's hard to know what exactly the future holds for the Smash series. While it will no doubt continue to be amazing, I can't help but think we're going to feel underwhelmed at this point if certain characters don't return. I think, for a lot of people, this sense of emptiness will depend on whether or not certain 3rd party characters will return and they are obviously the most at risk of getting the axe.

While I do think it's likely that we could get most of them returning, I really doubt we'll get them all. The biggest issue I think is whether or not the companies can cooperate and find the time to make these characters happen again, not whether they actually want the promotion. That said, who would leave the biggest hole in the game if they didn't come back?

I don't really want to cut anyone, but losing any of the Brawl and Smash 4 characters would just feel horrendous as they're all huge and historical gaming icons (except Bayonetta, but she's probably not going anywhere). They've also all been in a Smash game at least twice, so I think they've got decent chances regardless.



For Ultimate I really want to keep the Belmonts, Ken, Sora, and the Microsoft characters as they would feel like the biggest omissions now that we have them. This is due to Banjo Kazooie and Castlevania originating on Nintendo, Minecraft being Minecraft, and Sora winning the ballot. However, if Namco develops again and we get Cloud back we'll no doubt get Kazuya and Sephiroth regardless if the game can live without them.



TLDR: IMHO Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-man, Ryu and Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon and Richter, Banjo and Kazooie, Steve, and Sora should all definitely return for the next game. Who do you think would be the biggest omissions?

View attachment 374122

I desperately want the next Smash game to be hard reboot. Get someone who isn't Sakurai to rebuild Smash from the ground up. I'm not going to care if I can't play as Cloud, when there's new game mechanics, redone movesets, a new art style, and also the potential that all these third party IPs will return in later instalments. It would make the future of the series a lot more exciting than it is now.

I will be underwhelmed if the next Smash game just iterates on Ultimate, except I can't play as Cloud.

 

[chocolatejr9]

On other news tho.

This, no real follow or capitalization of Crash from 4, The FTC drama with Microsoft and Activision etc. It's unfortunately safe to say that things aren't looking good for Crash.

A week after launch, Crash Team Rumble is struggling on Twitch.https://t.co/VxCQsFcjWD pic.twitter.com/j0B4DCETcZ

— VGC (@VGC_News) June 30, 2023

Yeah, Crash Team Rumble probably isn't a good sign for things to come. Barely any advertising, no single player content, gameplay looks like a mess, the fact you have to PAY for this when it very obviously should've been free-to-play, hardly any content at launch... unless Crash 5 is announced, we may wanna temper expectations for Crash in Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

I've got a fun little game for y'all.


You are transported back in time to when Sakurai is making the next Smash and are helping out. You are asked to give feedback on the roster. The main catch for this is you can't just suggest your favorites outright. You have to make a seasoned argument to replace a character with one of the same series or type. So you can't just say "let me replace Dark Pit with Isaac" or something like that. You need to make sure the character is scratching the same itch or a similar one the original character did. It's also an easy way to say we can't just sub a low effort clone or echo for your dream character.

Here I'll start.

Jigglypuff -> Meowth: I understand why we are considering Jigglypuff for Smash. She is popular and relevant to the anime now, but I think Meowth is moreso. She can be easy to make, but we could in theory make Meowth easy as well. We can lift a few moves from Pikachu, Fox, and so on to make the Scratch Cat Pokemon work out in the end. I also think with how Pokemon Marketing is right now in the late 90s, we might want to lean into the anime further and choose the second most recurring Pokemon.

You can go either more or less in depth than this, idrc. It's just a fun thought experiment.

For each game, I'm mostly going to add a mix of characters who were known to be planned and characters I would personally like to see.

Spoiler: 64

• Ditto with Meowth (no pun intended). With how much more prominent he is in the anime compared to Jigglypuff, he makes even more sense to include as a fighter. For my version, however, he would (retroactively) have Diddy Kong's moveset.
• If not for time constraints, I'd also add Bowser, King Dedede, Mewtwo and Marth, all of whom were initially planned to appear

Spoiler: Melee

This is a "best-case scenario" where Melee got another year to cook.

• Replace Dr. Mario with Wario, since the latter was strongly considered but had to be cut due to time constraints
• Replace Pichu with Scizor, since the latter is a Pokémon that I personally think is a more natural fit for a fighting game
• Replace Young Link with Ayumi Tachibana, who was also considered for Melee. Realistically, I think she would be a semi-clone using variations of Peach and Zelda's moveset.
  • On a side note, model Ganondorf more like how he is in Ultimate (minus being so ungodly slow)
• Add Diddy Kong, since it would be the closest thing to a Rare character (as Sakurai stated it would be difficult to include characters like Banjo or James Bond for varying reasons, so Diddy Kong at least has the benefit of being a Rare-created character for a franchise wholly owned by Nintendo). He would be a semi-clone of Meowth; as I stated earlier, Meowth would retroactively use a variation Diddy Kong's moveset.

Spoiler: Brawl

• Keep Pokémon Trainer but replace Squirtle and Ivysaur with Totodile and Grovyle. Totodile would fill the role of the first-stage Water starter of the team, and Grovyle would fill the role of the middle-stage Grass starter (and even has relevance at the time of Brawl thanks to Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Darkness.
• Replace Toon Link with Tetra. While Toon Zelda is one of the "Forbidden Seven", she is also accompanied by another supposedly unused character codenamed "Toon Sheik". (Wind Waker spoilers ahoy). Considering there was never a "Toon Sheik" in Wind Waker, it's theorized that it could've been another codename for Tetra. That being said, I didn't want a copy-paste of the Zelda / Sheik transformation gimmick, so I decided on keeping Tetra separate from her true self as a playable character.
• Add DeMille from Tomato Adventure; some were expecting DeMille to appear in one form or another due to Sakurai including him twice in a character poll prior to the game's release. While I couldn't find any official info stating as such, I like to think that DeMille being included twice on a character poll says to me that Sakurai gave him at least some level of consideration, so I figured I could add DeMille here.
• I've been having conflicting thoughts with myself about replacing Snake with Leon Kennedy from Resident Evil. On one hand, Snake was added in the first place as a personal request from Kojima (whose son wanted to see Snake in the game as far back as Melee, hence Snake would've made if not for time constraints). On the other hand, Resident Evil 4 alone was more relevant to Nintendo at the time compared to MGS, along with being one of the most famous survival horror games ever. Plus, you could theoretically get away with ripping Leon's model right out of RE4 with little changes needed to fit Brawl's art style.
  • On a side note; I know if this were to happen, people would be disappointed in no Mega Man, and I get that. With that being said, Mega Man would likely replace Leon as the Capcom representative in Sm4sh for no other reason than because Resident Evil having content in Sm4sh at all would clash with the game's generally kid-friendly tone. And speaking of which...

Spoiler: for 3DS / Wii U

• Okay, so I'm going to get a little dicey and have certain characters be exclusive to either the Wii U version or the 3DS version. I know Sakurai wanted to keep both versions identical in roster size, but with version-exclusivity, we could theoretically get away with having even more characters (though in my mind, not that much in the big picture, but details).
• 3DS only:
  • Robin (to better coincide with Fire Emblem Awakening)
  • Mr. Game & Watch (a character who essentially birthed the handheld console)
  • Dark Pit (a 3DS-exclusive clone, to better coincide with Kid Icarus: Uprising)
  • DeMille (a character from a Japan-only GBA game)
  • Duck Hunt (I always thought the Duck Hunt stage was better suited to be 3DS-only then Wii U-only, so I decided to make Duck Hunt 3DS-only for no other reason than that lol)
• Wii U only
  • Tetra (to better coincide with Wind Waker HD)
  • Ice Climbers (originally cut altogether due to 3DS limitations, a problem that goes away when you make them Wii U-exclusive)
  • Alph (a Wii U-exclusive clone, to better coincide with Pikmin 3)
  • Wii Fit Trainer ("Wii" is in her name, so like with Duck Hunt, I made the Trainer Wii U-only for that reason and nothing else lol)
  • Shulk (since Xenoblade was made for the Wii first and foremost and wouldn't see a 3DS release until after Shulk joined the battle)
• De-clone Ganondorf altogether, with a new moveset using his Spaceworld 2000 sword and Phantom Ganon's trident (oh, and featuring Dead Man's Volley, but again, details)
• Replace R.O.B. with Takamaru (Takamaru was demoted to Assist Trophy due to a worry of obscurity. Honestly? I say just go for it, especially considering that The Mysterious Murasame Castle would be ported to the 3DS before Sm4sh's release anyway)
• Replace Charizard with Mewtwo (since everyone begged for Mewtwo's return after he was left out of Brawl)
• Replace Dr. Mario with Scizor as the returning Melee veteran who skipped out on Brawl (since Scizor also has the advantage of having a Mega Evolution in XY, which provides material for a Final Smash)
• With Mewtwo moved to the base roster, Rayman would take his place as the first DLC character in Sm4sh (I mostly put Rayman here as a homage to the Smashified hoax of 2015; I still remember that)
• Replace Corrin with Azura (Azura is not only another important character to the story of Fates, but she would also be a much more unique fighter because of her lance, waterbending and singing. Source Gaming gives a pretty good idea about how she would fight.)

Spoiler: Ultimate

"Everyone is Here!" would still happen, but with some key differences as far as newcomers.

• Along with Lucina, Dark Pit and Alph, the new Echo Fighters would be:
  • Dark Samus
  • Dry Bowser
  • Black Shadow
  • Daisy
  • Dixie Kong
  • Chrom
  • Shadow the Hedgehog
  • Glass Joe
  • Celica
  • Ken
• Richter is replaced by Alucard; since the latter was considered before Sakurai figured fans would want the Belmonts more, I figured we might as well give people the best of both worlds
• Pyra / Mythra (due to XBC2 being considered but dropped due to time constraints) and Bandana Waddle Dee (generally a fan-favorite) are added to the base roster, and Isabelle is gone
• Waluigi replaces Piranha Plant
• Fighters Pass Vol. 1 (which would now have six slots instead of five)
  • Joker
    • Though again, I have conflicting thoughts about replacing him with either Sakura Shinguji from Sakura Wars (an older SEGA RPG mixing turn-based combat and visual novel gameplay) and Arle from Puyo Puyo (just a popular SEGA game in general, especially in Japan)
  • Slime (replaces Hero, as the former was considered in case the latter wasn't allowed. I just wanted to open up the possibility that Slime ws our DQ rep)
  • Crash Bandicoot (as the platformer character who takes the third slot of Vol. 1)
  • Estelle Bright (replacing Byleth, who's now a Spirit, as the third RPG character of Vol. 1)
  • Terry Bogard
  • Banjo & Kazooie (as the last fighter of Vol. 1 in general; I just wanted to end the pass with another fan-favorite)
• Fighters Pass Vol. 2
  • Chun-Li (one of the most iconic women in video game history)
  • Dr. Eggman (one of the most iconic villains in video game history)
  • Sephiroth (ditto with Eggman)
  • Ring Fit Trainee (replaces Min Min and technically Byleth as the token Switch rep)
  • Kazuya
  • Sora

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Melee: swap Sheik for Diddy Kong

That is literally the opposite of the prompt I gave. You cant just swap Sheik for Diddy Kong that doesn't make sense.

You have to make a seasoned argument to replace a character with one of the same series or type. So you can't just say "let me replace Dark Pit with Isaac" or something like that. You need to make sure the character is scratching the same itch or a similkar one the original character did. It's also an easy way to say we can't just sub a low effort clone or echo for your dream character.

You have to make the argument of why X over Y makes any sense. You can't just shove a square peg into a round hole for this exercise. Icies for Pit in Melee sure, I can give you that one if you make the argument for it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

and if the period leading up to the next Smash is long, those old arguments might have merit again.

Pyra/Mythra were added 3 years after XB2 came out. And SMRPGR is going to be a much bigger deal than XB2. There is no merit to that argument.

Ok I'll remember he's not divisive when the fanbase spends the next like three years debating him

Trolls will be debating him with the fanbase. Because trolls always do. But there's no more legitimate arguments to be made.

He's still a very minor character in his series as a whole.

That's like saying Aerith is a minor character in her series as a whole.

It was a big surprise to me that Princess Daisy will be back in a 2D Mario game and of course I'm talking and writing about Super Mario Bros. Wonder as a playable character.

It was a bigger surprise to me that Toadette WASN'T a playable character in SMBW. Given that she was in NSMBUD.

 

[Stratos]

Meowth is more famous than Jigglypuff, they should have included him from the very first game of the Super Smash Bros. series and the reason is because thanks to the Pokémon anime series many people got excited about the rivalry between Ash's Pikachu and Team Rocket's Meowth and Super Smash Bros. would be the perfect way to see these two Pokémon battle in the way everyone wants, although that can also be done in the Pokémon video game series itself.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You are transported back in time to when Sakurai is making the next Smash and are helping out. You are asked to give feedback on the roster. The main catch for this is you can't just suggest your favorites outright. You have to make a seasoned argument to replace a character with one of the same series or type. So you can't just say "let me replace Dark Pit with Isaac" or something like that. You need to make sure the character is scratching the same itch or a similkar one the original character did. It's also an easy way to say we can't just sub a low effort clone or echo for your dream character.

I've done this thought exercise before, so I'm just going to copy/paste my response to it, even though it doesn't adhere to all of the rules you set down.


Time Travel

I go back in time to when Melee was being made:
I stop Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and Sheik from being playable characters.
I make it so Ganondorf and Falco have completely unique, non-cloned movesets.

I travel forward in time to when Brawl was being made:
I stop R.O.B, Zero Suit Samus and Pokemon Trainer from being playable characters and add Charizard instead.
I make it so Lucas, Wolf and Toon Link have completely unique, non-clone movesets.
I replace Galleom, Duon and Tabuu as bosses with Metal Gear REX, Mother Brain and Medusa.
I make R.O.B., Ice Climbers and Game & Watch assist trophies.

I travel forward in time to when Smash 4 was being made:
I stop Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Lucina and Dark Pit from being playable characters.
I make Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt assist trophies.
I replace Master Core as a boss with Andross(N64).

I travel forward in time to when Ultimate was being made:
I stop Piranha Plant, Chrom and Incineroar from being playable characters and add Decidueye instead.
I make Isabelle have a completely unique, non-clone moveset.
I make Piranha Plant, King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard assist trophies.
I add Dr. Mario, Sheik and Zero Suit Samus as alt costumes.
I add Pichu, Lucina, Dark Pit, Dark Shadow, Bass and Shadow as echo fighters.
I replace Galeem and Dharkon as bosses with Safer Sephiroth and Giygas and make sure all of Brawl's bosses return.

At this point, I have removed a grand total of 12 unique movesets from the game. And added a total of 7 unique movesets back into the game. So with my last 5 surplus movesets, I just add 5 characters from my wishlist: Ryu Hayabusa, Bill Rizer/Lance Bean, Arthur, Kunio/Riki, SV-001 Metal Slug a new Smash Ballot.


I made it a point not to introduce ATs or Echoes before the game they were actually introduced in. And didn't introduce characters before their series showed up in Smash. Also, changed the last line so I wasn't just picking my favorites.

 

[Gengar84]

Pyra/Mythra were added 3 years after XB2 came out. And SMRPGR is going to be a much bigger deal than XB2. There is no merit to that argument.

I’m not sure if Super Mario RPG Remake is actually that much bigger of a deal than Xenoblade 2 in terms of sales. From what I was able to find online, it looks like SMRPG sold around 2.14 million copies where Xenoblade 2 sold 2.44 million. XBC2 did have the advantage of being an early Switch game where SMRPG was a late SNES game so that likely factored into the numbers. Still, it looks like XBC2 actually outsold SMRPG so that has to count for something. At least enough to say that it’s not objectively a much bigger deal.

It looks like the highest selling Mario RPG ever is Bowser’s Inside Story at 4.56 million, which is better than Xenoblade 2’s series height of 2.44 million but the average for most Mario RPGs are lower than that. It seems that besides a few outliers in Super Paper Mario and Bowser’s Inside Story, which both sold over 4 million, the sales for the Mario RPGs and Xenoblade games are pretty comparable. I’m not sure whether SMRPGR being a remake rather than an original game is going to help or hurt its sales.

 

[CannonStreak]

Pyra/Mythra were added 3 years after XB2 came out. And SMRPGR is going to be a much bigger deal than XB2. There is no merit to that argument.

What argument?

I was just saying my thoughts.

 

[Stratos]

I know this might not happen but you never know. With Daisy appearing as a playable character in Super Mario Bros. Wonder, I'm somewhat optimistic that Waluigi will appear in a main Super Mario Bros. game or a Wario game in the future, and maybe later in his own video game series.

 

[CannonStreak]

I’m not sure if Super Mario RPG Remake is actually that much bigger of a deal than Xenoblade 2 in terms of sales. From what I was able to find online, it looks like SMRPG sold around 2.14 million copies where Xenoblade 2 sold 2.44 million. XBC2 did have the advantage of being an early Switch game where SMRPG was a late SNES game so that likely factored into the numbers. Still, it looks like XBC2 actually outsold SMRPG so that has to count for something. At least enough to say that it’s not objectively a much bigger deal.

I really have to agree with you there. Granted, they were released at different times, but I see where you are coming from.

Would the remake be late in the Switch’s lifecycle, too?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m not sure if Super Mario RPG Remake is actually that much bigger of a deal than Xenoblade 2 in terms of sales.

It will be on the Switch. Originally, it was a somewhat obscure game that came out at the very end of the SNES's life. Since then, it's status has become legendary. A brand new remake, coming out on an even more popular system, it's going to blow way past XB2.

 

[CannonStreak]

It will be on the Switch. Originally, it was a somewhat obscure game that came out at the very end of the SNES's life. Since then, it's status has become legendary. A brand new remake, coming out on an even more popular system, it's going to blow way past XB2.

I would like to believe that, ant that seems likely, but I would not count the chickens before they hatched just yet, just to be sure.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Will Advance Wars Reboot Camp ever get a Japanese release?

That's like saying Aerith is a minor character in her series as a whole.

Well I'd argue the big difference between Aerith and Geno is that Final Fantasy 7 was a more iconic and culturally impactful game than Super Mario RPG was meaning people are less likely to see Aerith as minor compared to Geno.

 

[Gengar84]

On a related note, it bums me out a little that the Xenoblade games don’t sell better than they do. It looks like the developers put a ton of time and effort into each game with huge expansive environments, fun combat, and killer soundtracks but the series is still a bit on the niche side compared to something like Splatoon. Compare that to modern Pokémon games and it seems to me that Xenoblade games are much more ambitious and look a lot better visually. It’s not a huge deal and as long as they keep selling enough for Monolith Soft to keep making them, that’s good enough for me.

I’m just using this as an excuse to talk about him again but I’ve always viewed Geno in the same way I do Magus from Chrono Trigger. Both were side characters in popular SNES RPGs that played a major role in the story despite not being the protagonist. I actually support the idea of getting more Smash reps beyond just the main protagonist and occasional villain. Some of the side characters are my favorites in their game, which is rarely the case for the main character, especially if they are silent like Crono or Mario.

Magus has a bit of an edge compared to other CT side character because he is the only character that has either appeared or was originally planned to appear in all three entries of the series. Guile in Chrono Cross eventually broke off into his own character due to time constraints at the time but I believe the DS port of Chrono Trigger implies that they might still be the same character. The main reason I want to see Magus is that he’s one of my favorite video game characters but I feel like there are actually some legitimate reasons he could be considered outside of my own personal bias.

 

[CannonStreak]

Will Advance Wars Reboot Camp ever get a Japanese release?



Well I'd argue the big difference between Aerith and Geno is that Final Fantasy 7 was a more iconic and culturally impactful game than Super Mario RPG was meaning people are less likely to see Aerith as minor compared to Geno.

Not to defend Geno or his chances for Smash, but while he was not the star of his game, I would hardly call him minor. Maybe as a character overall before the remake was announced due to being dormant, but minor typically means of lesser importance, and there were many characters in the game he was in that were way less important than Geno.

 

[fogbadge]

It will be on the Switch. Originally, it was a somewhat obscure game that came out at the very end of the SNES's life. Since then, it's status has become legendary. A brand new remake, coming out on an even more popular system, it's going to blow way past XB2.

the end result could still be everyone hyped it up and all the newcomers will hate it

 

[Aligo]

It will be on the Switch. Originally, it was a somewhat obscure game that came out at the very end of the SNES's life. Since then, it's status has become legendary. A brand new remake, coming out on an even more popular system, it's going to blow way past XB2.

I mean, being part of the mario brand will probably help achieve that, and the lack of competing mario RPGs (with the changes in paper Mario and the death of mario and Luigi) it could outdo the total xeno sales on switch if things go well enough, as 3 didn't exactly blow up in sales compared to its predecessor and the first game had less sales due to other remakes being readily available last gen.

On the topic of xenoblade, the best thing they could do to expand the consumer base would be to do a spinoff using a different style of gameplay. There is plenty settings and characters ripe to be expanded upon, and it the relative lack of changes between 2 and 3 seems to signal they do not know where they can go with the current system.

 

[CannonStreak]

the end result could still be everyone hyped it up and all the newcomers will hate it

Not a bad point, actually.

Still, the game, when it was made long ago, was a masterpiece. It rather depends on how well the remake is made. Maybe some of the newer things will get their attention. I hear they are using some things from the Mario and Luigi games for the remake.

 

[Gengar84]

I mean, being part of the mario brand will probably help achieve that, and the lack of competing mario RPGs (with the changes in paper Mario and the death of mario and Luigi) it could outdo the total xeno sales on switch if things go well enough, as 3 didn't exactly blow up in sales compared to its predecessor and the first game had less sales due to other remakes being readily available last gen.

On the topic of xenoblade, the best thing they could do to expand the consumer base would be to do a spinoff using a different style of gameplay. There is plenty settings and characters ripe to be expanded upon, and it the relative lack of changes between 2 and 3 seems to signal they do not know where they can go with the current system.

I think a Xenoblade Warriors could be a lot of fun. There’s a few series I’d love to get the Warriors treatment before Xenoblade like TMNT but I’d definitely buy a Xenoblade Warriors game if they made one.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I’m not sure if Super Mario RPG Remake is actually that much bigger of a deal than Xenoblade 2 in terms of sales. From what I was able to find online, it looks like SMRPG sold around 2.14 million copies where Xenoblade 2 sold 2.44 million. XBC2 did have the advantage of being an early Switch game where SMRPG was a late SNES game so that likely factored into the numbers. Still, it looks like XBC2 actually outsold SMRPG so that has to count for something. At least enough to say that it’s not objectively a much bigger deal.

It looks like the highest selling Mario RPG ever is Bowser’s Inside Story at 4.56 million, which is better than Xenoblade 2’s series height of 2.44 million but the average for most Mario RPGs are lower than that. It seems that besides a few outliers in Super Paper Mario and Bowser’s Inside Story, which both sold over 4 million, the sales for the Mario RPGs and Xenoblade games are pretty comparable. I’m not sure whether SMRPGR being a remake rather than an original game is going to help or hurt its sales.

Huh, and it was after those games that Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi fell off. Guess they really were hard to top, huh?

 

[Will]

I think a Xenoblade Warriors could be a lot of fun. There’s a few series I’d love to get the Warriors treatment before Xenoblade like TMNT but I’d definitely buy a Xenoblade Warriors game if they made one.

Donkey Kong Warriors is a slept on concept

 

[Aligo]

I think a Xenoblade Warriors could be a lot of fun. There’s a few series I’d love to get the Warriors treatment before Xenoblade like TMNT but I’d definitely buy a Xenoblade Warriors game if they made one.

If they did that, they could finally have a Reyn Zeke team up. It could also be a good opportunity to rework some aspects of the overarching narrative, as some recent elements

Spoiler: Spoilers for xenoblade 3 and future redeemed

the existence of morbius and the time travel

wrote the plot into a corner. It worked well for age of calamity so I don't see why it can't be done again.

Also I could imagine an armoured core style of game working very well in the xenoblade setting, given the propensity towards both mechanical and biological constructs in the series.

 

[chocolatejr9]

On a related note, it bums me out a little that the Xenoblade games don’t sell better than they do. It looks like the developers put a ton of time and effort into each game with huge expansive environments, fun combat, and killer soundtracks but the series is still a bit on the niche side compared to something like Splatoon. Compare that to modern Pokémon games and it seems to me that Xenoblade games are much more ambitious and look a lot better visually. It’s not a huge deal and as long as they keep selling enough for Monolith Soft to keep making them, that’s good enough for me.

I’m just using this as an excuse to talk about him again but I’ve always viewed Geno in the same way I do Magus from Chrono Trigger. Both were side characters in popular SNES RPGs that played a major role in the story despite not being the protagonist. I actually support the idea of getting more Smash reps beyond just the main protagonist and occasional villain. Some of the side characters are my favorites in their game, which is rarely the case for the main character, especially if they are silent like Crono or Mario.

Magus has a bit of an edge compared to other CT side character because he is the only character that has either appeared or was originally planned to appear in all three entries of the series. Guile in Chrono Cross eventually broke off into his own character due to time constraints at the time but I believe the DS port of Chrono Trigger implies that they might still be the same character. The main reason I want to see Magus is that he’s one of my favorite video game characters but I feel like there are actually some legitimate reasons he could be considered outside of my own personal bias.

Have we established if Monolith Soft would be a good fit for Pokemon? That'd help them make bank, I bet.

 

[fogbadge]

If they did that, they could finally have a Reyn Zeke team up. It could also be a good opportunity to rework some aspects of the overarching narrative, as some recent elements

Spoiler: Spoilers for xenoblade 3 and future redeemed

the existence of morbius and the time travel

wrote the plot into a corner. It worked well for age of calamity so I don't see why it can't be done again.

Also I could imagine an armoured core style of game working very well in the xenoblade setting, given the propensity towards both mechanical and biological constructs in the series.

what time travel?

 

[Perkilator]

Nathaniel Bandy release his video concept for a Smash Ultimate port.

 

[SPEN18]

On a related note, it bums me out a little that the Xenoblade games don’t sell better than they do. It looks like the developers put a ton of time and effort into each game with huge expansive environments, fun combat, and killer soundtracks but the series is still a bit on the niche side compared to something like Splatoon. Compare that to modern Pokémon games and it seems to me that Xenoblade games are much more ambitious and look a lot better visually. It’s not a huge deal and as long as they keep selling enough for Monolith Soft to keep making them, that’s good enough for me.

To be fair, they have come a long way. The likes of FE and Xenoblade used to never crack 1mil sales per game.

If I may also plug one of my faves a little, it makes Golden Sun's debut sales look even more impressive as a Nintendo JRPG.

As for the Mario RPG sales, those games are clearly naturally advantaged by having the Mario branding.

 

[Aligo]

what time travel?

Spoiler: more spoliers

when the worlds are returned to their original state, it effectively erases aionis and everyone in it. The issue of this is while the data for many people still exists within origin, they aren't the same as the the people who actually live in aionis, add to that every individual who was naturally born within aionis over its roughly thousand year existence, who aren't even backed up in aionis, and that is immense number of people who simply get... Unmade at the end of the game. Fridge horror is some scary stuff. It effectively make it as though the events of the game never occurred due to things being 'reset', so to speak.

Also may I ask what kind of xenoblade spinoff you would like to see? All the ideas have been pretty cool so far.

 

[fogbadge]

Spoiler: more spoliers

when the worlds are returned to their original state, it effectively erases aionis and everyone in it. The issue of this is while the data for many people still exists within origin, they aren't the same as the the people who actually live in aionis, add to that every individual who was naturally born within aionis over its roughly thousand year existence, who aren't even backed up in aionis, and that is immense number of people who simply get... Unmade at the end of the game. Fridge horror is some scary stuff. It effectively make it as though the events of the game never occurred due to things being 'reset', so to speak.

Also may I ask what kind of xenoblade spinoff you would like to see? All the ideas have been pretty cool so far.

forgive my nitpicking but that’s not time travel

as for spin-offs I’m onboard with the warriors ideas, loved hyrule warriors and FE warriors, and would love to do it again with shulk, Elma, Rex and Noah. And everyone else

I’d also like to see warriors versions of Mario, Kirby and sonic

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well I'd argue the big difference between Aerith and Geno is that Final Fantasy 7 was a more iconic and culturally impactful game than Super Mario RPG was meaning people are less likely to see Aerith as minor compared to Geno.

For sure. But we're specifically using the qualifier "in his series". SMRPG is arguably one of the most important games in the Mario RPG series(as FF7 is to FF), and Geno, while not the actual protagonist of SMRPG(that's Mario), is the character around which the entire main plot of that game revolves(as Aerith is to FF7).

 

[Aligo]

forgive my nitpicking but that’s not time travel

as for spin-offs I’m onboard with the warriors ideas, loved hyrule warriors and FE warriors, and would love to do it again with shulk, Elma, Rex and Noah. And everyone else

I’d also like to see warriors versions of Mario, Kirby and sonic

If the old worlds are the same as they were before the merge, then it would be in a physics sense due the linkage of space and time. Still very semantics based though, as the details are rather vague and it would be making a lot of assumptions about the physical properties for of the xenoblade universe.

The idea of a mario warriors game gives me images of wario obliterating like 250 goombas with a special fart attack, which is quite something.

 

[Stratos]

As some of us know, The Witcher started as a novel series and Turok started as a comic book. But some others now consider them as video game series, probably because they were more successful as video games, but still that doesn't change their debut and for that reason some want the characters from these two series in the Super Smash Bros. series, something that will never happen.