Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’ve always been fond of the idea to have a giant MetroidVania map where each new character unlocked would play a little cutscene for interaction purposes and then utilize them to access more and more of the map.

Edit: just to give an example. Maybe you start out at the middle of the map. Left is blocked by a door that requires fire and you can go unlock either Young Link in the North East portion of the map or Charizard in the South West portion to unlock that door.

I don’t really need Subspace level cutscenes. You could go full, Project X Zone and have most dialogue and interactions happen in text boxes. The only major thing I would want in that instance is voice acting and that’s not a necessity either, really.

 

[fogbadge]

View attachment 374026
Me after reading the last page

that gets a like just for featuring the best character in the show

 

[Sucumbio]

I’ve always been fond of the idea to have a giant MetroidVania map where each new character unlocked would play a little cutscene for interaction purposes and then utilize them to access more and more of the map.

Edit: just to give an example. Maybe you start out at the middle of the map. Left is blocked by a door that requires fire and you can go unlock either Young Link in the North East portion of the map or Charizard in the South West portion to unlock that door.

This is a great idea, actually! I agree we don't need fully animated cut scenes.

There should prolly also not be too much tie in to unlocking characters. Iirc sse got some hate for being too cumbersome as a "required" mode.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

They should have had Terry have som special victory screen when he beats the SF guys.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Not in this case.

Like I said, that's never been what draws to me Smash. What's appealing to me is all these characters with their video game elements and bringing them together in this one common game. You got your platformers, fighting game characters, RPG characters, racers. And there's a lot of nostalgic touch to them, such as either the stages in 2D style or characters having some sound effects from older games. Because if it's supposed to be a "celebration of video games", then it's the video game part that's the most important and that should be the point here.

the interactions themselves don't really last that long and since they don't appeal to me compared to just the characters appearing together in the first place, it doesn't matter to me to not see it.

Yeah but what's the point of having it all if you ain't going to anything? In a world of today where crossovers are more popular than ever before: Master Chief and Kratos in Fortnite, Akuma for Tekken 7, A world where NASB and Multiversus hit the scene with their crossovers, etc. Just showing you have the legal rights to a fictional character just isn't special anymore

Feels more like corporations bragging about quarterly reports of what rights/licenses they own.

if it's a celebration of video games then what are celebrating and how are going to do it is just as important as the game itself.

If characters just appearing together is your thing then why not just skip Smash and play MUGEN? It has a lot more characters than Smash is ever going to realistically achieve.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah but what's the point of having it all if you ain't going to anything? In a world of today where crossovers are more popular than ever before: Master Chief and Kratos in Fortnite, Akuma for Tekken 7, A world where NASB and Multiversus hit the scene with their crossovers, etc. Just showing you have the legal rights to a fictional character just isn't special anymore

Feels more like corporations bragging about quarterly reports of what rights/licenses they own.

if it's a celebration of video games then what are celebrating and how are going to do it is just as important as the game itself.

If characters just appearing together is your thing then why not just skip Smash and play MUGEN? It has a lot more characters than Smash is ever going to realistically achieve.

I'm not sure what else you expect. They included these characters people wanted to play and what do you think we do when we get them? We play them. That's the most important thing. When I want a character in Smash, it's because I like the character and their games and I want to see at least most of what I like about them brought to Smash just like others before them and then I start playing them. It's obviously not because I want to see how they'll goof around with Mario or Sonic for a few seconds.

Also, MUGEN is not Smash and that's used for fanmade games. I'd rather see that in official games made by the companies themselves. MUGEN is not the solution for everything, you know.

I'm surprised you even suggested that. That's like asking you why don't you skip the games and read a fanfic if you want the characters to do more than just fight each other. Just to remind you, fan videos involving character interactions (like that Mario and Sonic series) can be done too.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah but what's the point of having it all if you ain't going to anything? In a world of today where crossovers are more popular than ever before: Master Chief and Kratos in Fortnite, Akuma for Tekken 7, A world where NASB and Multiversus hit the scene with their crossovers, etc. Just showing you have the legal rights to a fictional character just isn't special anymore

Feels more like corporations bragging about quarterly reports of what rights/licenses they own.

if it's a celebration of video games then what are celebrating and how are going to do it is just as important as the game itself.

If characters just appearing together is your thing then why not just skip Smash and play MUGEN? It has a lot more characters than Smash is ever going to realistically achieve.

I mean, part of the reason Smash has a stranglehold over the market is the pedigree it has.

Smash is a juggernaut. Smash Ultimate alone sold more than the Wii U. It's the best selling fighting game of all time. Part of that might be due to brand loyalty to Nintendo, but it is fundamentally a great product. It's the best Smash game when it comes to playing with your friends on the couch alongside you. It has the most stages, the most characters, the most items, it is the biggest Smash game. It's a game that can appeal to both casual and competitive fans and casts the widest net. It would not be able to do so if it was not so well done.

I like NASB and Multiversus, but they just are not at that quality level compared to Smash. Fun great games, but they are not "smash killers" as much as some people want to say they are. Comparing either of them to Smash is just disingenuous. The virtue of Smash is not just showing off "Hey look, Cloud and Steve are in this game": it is taking the characters and making them feel organic in a fighting game. Fortnite is not giving almost every character a lovingly constructed moveset that has ties to canon. Part of the appeal of Smash is that. People are not just asking for X character to flex the muscles of Nintendo; boiling down any character to that is just reductive. A big part is because people think they would fit and be fun. I doubt people would support Bandana Dee as earnestly as they do if they did not like him and want him in Smash Bros. I can apply that dynamic to any character.

The appeal for Smash for a lot of people is not just because it is this big crossover: it is because it is Smash. The game is easy to learn and hard to master. The characters feel distinct and diverse. The presentation for its system is great. The game is well balanced. Smash is a well made, highly tuned game and people love it for that. The average Smash fan is not picking Smash up specifically to see Mario interact with Sonic: they are buying it to play with their friends. Smash. It's why the MUGEN comparisons fall flat. MUGEN is not an ultra fine tuned product. Smash is.

 

[Stratos]

It is a fact, for me at least, that no crossover fighting game is more important than the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[dream1ng]

This may be a hot take, but I think an Adventure mode closer to Melee's might be ideal for Smash. Keep it short, and that way the variety stands out more. Each section can have Smash lean into that specific property's hook. You know, platforming (both horizontal and vertical), a Metroidvania, a 1v1 stamina fight, a race, using items, something arcade-y, collectathon, king of the hill/hold the line, survival mode, run n gun, stealth. You could even do something turn-based, if its slower pace didn't prove too disruptive. In one playthrough you could run not just through different IPs, but in a sense, different genres.

And it'd be a great place to fit in the boss fights. Melee didn't really have any, besides the hands and Giga Bowser.

Each section could have two phases, one that reflects the series, the other the traditional Smash battle against that IPs' character(s). Then each character could have a different selection and order of the sections to keep Adventure mode unique based on character, and to reduce repetitiveness. Maybe difficulty scales with their placement, like a Mario level having more/tougher enemies if towards the end. Plus if a certain character would somehow break a certain level, they just wouldn't get that one. Which would in turn help the level design, not having to balance it for the entire cast.

If you really wanted to embrace the crossover aspect of Smash, you could merge multiple IPs into a single section, if they overlapped gameplay-wise. Like, if there was a Metroidvania level, part of the maze could be a sci-fi alien planet, and part could be a gothic castle, with enemies from both. One level could be a fighter arcade mode, and pit you against Ryu then Terry then Kazuya (even Min Min and Little Mac), and have arcade-like intertitles between fights. One level, you collect all the dots and avoid the ghosts, like Pac-Man. Except it's not Pac-Maze, it's a level from arcade Donkey Kong, and he's at the top, chucking barrels at you. The power pellets make him vulnerable as well, and if you attack him, he'll quit chucking barrels for a while. If you do enough total damage, he'll **** off entirely. Then maybe you don't have to fight DK in the next round. The bonus fruit heals you, maybe pong/sheriff/galaga also show up to cause trouble. Or there's a level where it starts on Mute City and you have to dodge the racers like Melee, then the course transitions to a Sonic stage, you get one of those speed boost item boxes

and you have to outrun the racers. Then you get to a launch star or a big spring, and it shoots you upward. Now you're on Rainbow Road, and you have to outrun the racers while also dodging Shy Guy drivers.

You could write a whole list of possible ideas for levels, whether individual or mixed.

If each path per character is completely predetermined, you could then fit short interactions between certain characters in there. Even if there was a degree of randomness in which sections are selected and/or their order (within a pool for each character), you could still have interactions between some matchups, they'd likely just be shorter given there'd be more. And then you'd have replay incentive to find them all.

Such a thing would compliment a possible recruitment mechanic, where you could recruit one or more defeated character(s), either just as a CPU ally for fights, or as a one-off 'extra' life you can switch to. Depending how they want it to work. Since each path is predetermined, you wouldn't have to create interactions for every possible combination of characters.

You also don't have to worry about juggling a story featuring dozens of characters, so you could just pick interactions that would make sense instead of whatever the plot dictates. Like two characters that actually speak, so there could be dialogue instead of reducing one to grunts and miming because the other idiot can only go 'wahoo!'.

And you could also gradually reveal levels during pre-release like with the other content.

It's more realistic than dedicating the budget to another SSE again, complete with a movie's worth of cutscenes. The engagement versus cost isn't there.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This may be a hot take, but I think an Adventure mode closer to Melee's might be ideal for Smash...

This is a really solid idea, and (while I don't think Nintendo wouldn't necessarily be inclined to do this) its the kind kind mode that might lend itself to post game passes and DLC content to make the next Smash an even stronger evergreen title. Every couple of months you get a new Adventure section based around another property, maybe with some unlockables along the way.

 

[Super Devon]

Okay so when Geno was speculated for Smash Ultimate DLC, I was kinda against it solely because of the fact that he was very obscure and not many people outside of the fans of the OG game would recognize. (though it could be argued that and were not that popular outside of fans of their OG games as well)

However, when the remake of Super Mario RPG was announced, it completely changed my perspective on the character, as I'd be surprised if Geno wasn't in the next Smash at this point.

 

[Dukefire]

Okay so when Geno was speculated for Smash Ultimate DLC, I was kinda against it solely because of the fact that he was very obscure and not many people outside of the fans of the OG game would recognize. (though it could be argued that and were not that popular outside of fans of their OG games as well)

However, when the remake of Super Mario RPG was announced, it completely changed my perspective on the character, as I'd be surprised if Geno wasn't in the next Smash at this point.

Yeah, I would feel their pain with SMRPG resurfacing to relevancy.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

They included these characters people wanted to play and what do you think we do when we get them? We play them. That's the most important thing.

Also, MUGEN is not Smash and that's used for fanmade games. I'd rather see that in official games made by the companies themselves. MUGEN is not the solution for everything, you know.

Why not, it has a ton of characters a lot of people want to play, A lot more even Smash Bros could'v ever achieve, and you get play them too. In this instance, what's the difference? One is free and one isn't

The virtue of Smash is not just showing off "Hey look, Cloud and Steve are in this game": it is taking the characters and making them feel organic in a fighting game. Fortnite is not giving almost every character a lovingly constructed moveset that has ties to canon.

Idk about that. Marvel vs Capcom and PSAR does that similar as a fighting game & also apparently deliver on interaction. A lot of people have said the same thing about Smash too on the latter, on how movesets are mostly made up and don't fit their respective character turning them into the opposite on who they are like Fire Emblem, Wario, Olimar, Ganondorf, Mario and Megaman for some reason etc

And i would say the "Hey look, Cloud and Steve are in this game" crossover is a huge appeal too. Not wrong to expand on it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A lot of people have said the same thing about Smash too on the latter, on how movesets are mostly made up and don't fit their respective character turning them into the opposite on who they are like Fire Emblem, Wario, Olimar, Ganondorf, Mario and Megaman for some reason etc

What’s wrong with Mega Man?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Why not, it has a ton of characters a lot of people want to play, A lot more even Smash Bros could'v ever achieve, and you get play them too. In this instance, what's the difference? One is free and one isn't

The difference is one is Smash (which is made by a famous video game company) and the other one isn't.

 

[Sucumbio]

At the risk of sounding uniformed (when has that ever stopped you, Suco?... Quite ..)has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

One of the Shinobi genes coming to Genesis NSO ... .

 

[Nabbitfan730]

The difference is one is Smash (which is made by a famous video game company) and the other one isn't.

So Smash only matters over Mugen because Nintendo's behind it?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Idk about that. Marvel vs Capcom and PSAR does that similar as a fighting game & also apparently deliver on interaction. A lot of people have said the same thing about Smash too on the latter, on how movesets are mostly made up and don't fit their respective character turning them into the opposite on who they are like Fire Emblem, Wario, Olimar, Ganondorf, Mario and Megaman for some reason etc

And i would say the "Hey look, Cloud and Steve are in this game" crossover is a huge appeal too. Not wrong to expand on it.

PSABR failed and is only really discussed nowadays as a case study of how not to try and ape Smash Bros. Heck, MvC strayed too far from focusing on good gameplay to try to be a stronger crossover with Infinite, and that game crashed and burned. I would not use those as good examples of interaction when both of them leave a lot to be desired.

I also think most moveset gripes are overblown. The only character that imo out and out needs a redesign or something is Ganondorf for obvious reasons. Would I like for Dread elements in Samus's moveset or more Wario Land in Wario's? Sure, but those movesets as is are fine imo. I think even if the characters are not a 1 to 1 direct implementation of their canon counterparts, they sell the soul of their fighter or the series. Not every character can or willl be a 1-1 recreation. There will always be workhorse moves, they will make compromises. Workhorse moves are fine. I do not need to point at the screen that Cloud did a particular sword slash from Advent Children or that Diddy Kong did a certain hand slap like in one part of DK64. Not every aspect of a character's moves needs to be directly something. So long as you "feel" like Cloud or Diddy Kong, their moveset works.

Take Olimar for example. Just due to how Pikmin works as a series, there was always going to be a lot of compromises to putting him in Smash. He would need to be sized up, his army of Pikmin would need to be toned down, and so on. They made a lot of compromises to put him in. He's far bigger than the size of a quarter, he can pluck white and purple pikmin, and his number of pikmin is far less. But he sells the fantasy of Pikmin well. You are this tiny guy taking on beastly foes far larger than you with your army. While you can preserve your army, you have lots of reserves should you need them. Without them, you are close to a sitting duck. Its better to fight at a distance and let them do the heavy lifting than get your hands dirty. This lets you feel like you are playing a pikmin captain in Smash while still making sacrifices to make him work.

Once again, I think you could have deeper character interactions beyond Palutena's Guidance and Codecs. But I think that framing it as something essential misses the forest for the trees. Smash already is such a great crossover due to its natural absurdity. We all accept that Mario can go toe to toe with bounty hunters from Space, anime swordsmen, and a literal toy that came with the NES back in the day, even if it is inherently weird. Could they do more? Sure, but it is not at the top of the pyramid of needs for Smash.

This may be a hot take, but I think an Adventure mode closer to Melee's might be ideal for Smash. Keep it short, and that way the variety stands out more. Each section can have Smash lean into that specific property's hook. You know, platforming (both horizontal and vertical), a Metroidvania, a 1v1 stamina fight, a race, using items, something arcade-y, collectathon, king of the hill/hold the line, survival mode, run n gun, stealth. You could even do something turn-based, if its slower pace didn't prove too disruptive. In one playthrough you could run not just through different IPs, but in a sense, different genres.

And it'd be a great place to fit in the boss fights. Melee didn't really have any, besides the hands and Giga Bowser.

Each section could have two phases, one that reflects the series, the other the traditional Smash battle against that IPs' character(s). Then each character could have a different selection and order of the sections to keep Adventure mode unique based on character, and to reduce repetitiveness. Maybe difficulty scales with their placement, like a Mario level having more/tougher enemies if towards the end. Plus if a certain character would somehow break a certain level, they just wouldn't get that one. Which would in turn help the level design, not having to balance it for the entire cast.

If you really wanted to embrace the crossover aspect of Smash, you could merge multiple IPs into a single section, if they overlapped gameplay-wise. Like, if there was a Metroidvania level, part of the maze could be a sci-fi alien planet, and part could be a gothic castle, with enemies from both. One level could be a fighter arcade mode, and pit you against Ryu then Terry then Kazuya (even Min Min and Little Mac), and have arcade-like intertitles between fights. One level, you collect all the dots and avoid the ghosts, like Pac-Man. Except it's not Pac-Maze, it's a level from arcade Donkey Kong, and he's at the top, chucking barrels at you. The power pellets make him vulnerable as well, and if you attack him, he'll quit chucking barrels for a while. If you do enough total damage, he'll **** off entirely. Then maybe you don't have to fight DK in the next round. The bonus fruit heals you, maybe pong/sheriff/galaga also show up to cause trouble. Or there's a level where it starts on Mute City and you have to dodge the racers like Melee, then the course transitions to a Sonic stage, you get one of those speed boost item boxes

and you have to outrun the racers. Then you get to a launch star or a big spring, and it shoots you upward. Now you're on Rainbow Road, and you have to outrun the racers while also dodging Shy Guy drivers.

You could write a whole list of possible ideas for levels, whether individual or mixed.

If each path per character is completely predetermined, you could then fit short interactions between certain characters in there. Even if there was a degree of randomness in which sections are selected and/or their order (within a pool for each character), you could still have interactions between some matchups, they'd likely just be shorter given there'd be more. And then you'd have replay incentive to find them all.

Such a thing would compliment a possible recruitment mechanic, where you could recruit one or more defeated character(s), either just as a CPU ally for fights, or as a one-off 'extra' life you can switch to. Depending how they want it to work. Since each path is predetermined, you wouldn't have to create interactions for every possible combination of characters.

You also don't have to worry about juggling a story featuring dozens of characters, so you could just pick interactions that would make sense instead of whatever the plot dictates. Like two characters that actually speak, so there could be dialogue instead of reducing one to grunts and miming because the other idiot can only go 'wahoo!'.

And you could also gradually reveal levels during pre-release like with the other content.

It's more realistic than dedicating the budget to another SSE again, complete with a movie's worth of cutscenes. The engagement versus cost isn't there.

I actually think a Melee style adventure mode is the best compromise in order to have more crossover aspects without having to make some story juggling dozens of characters and appeasing everyone on how each character would act.

You could do something simple like what Melee did but with more characters and areas. Maybe if you decide to bring back Smash Run, you can reuse enemies and bosses from that in an adventure mode of sorts to kill two birds with one stone. I would be fine with a Melee style adventure mode with a bit of random variance to it. Maybe you always start with the Mushroom Kingdom and end with the Fighting Mii Team and Giga Bowser, but the stuff in between is shuffled around somewhat. You could be going to Hollow Bastion next to slay some Heartless and then fight Sora, or you are just going to have a quick 1v1 with Min Min in Spring Stadium. Or maybe you take it further and have a variety of different universes that the characters would visit, but each route only has them experience 10 or so. That way you can almost tailor them to each character. Sky's the limit.

 

[fogbadge]

At the risk of sounding uniformed (when has that ever stopped you, Suco?... Quite ..)has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

One of the Shinobi genes coming to Genesis NSO ... .

I don’t think there’s a character who hasn’t been supported yet

 

[Sucumbio]

I don’t think there’s a character who hasn’t been supported yet

I guess ... I don't recall Ninja talk surrounding anyone but Ryu H, not Shinobi or branching to like ... Onimusha a personal fav who also is on switch yay but anyway oh well Sad Anime Face ...

Jago tho...

Or Kage...

Or This thing!

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

At the risk of sounding uniformed (when has that ever stopped you, Suco?... Quite ..)has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

One of the Shinobi genes coming to Genesis NSO ... .

Musashi has gotten some token support but Shinobi in general suffers in comparison to Hayabusa/Ninja Gaiden by having far less of a Nintendo connection (with the first non Virtual Console Nintendo release being the 3DS game) and the former franchise being inconsistently handled in contrast to NG. The latter has semi-modern games and connection to stuff like Dead or Alive while Shinobi feels far more defined as a retro Sega IP. Much like Strider Hiryu, he is a very different character than Hayabusa when examined, but there is a perceived chance of inclusion that Ryu feels more likely to win.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

At the risk of sounding uniformed (when has that ever stopped you, Suco?... Quite ..)has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

One of the Shinobi genes coming to Genesis NSO ... .

I never saw huge support for him to be honest. Even among other retro Sega characters there's a lot of more popular choices like Axel from Streets of rage, Gilius from Golden axe, Akira from Virtua fighter and Opa-Opa from Fantasy zone. He's also sometimes compared to Ryu Hayabusa who is far more popular too.

 

[Ivander]

At the risk of sounding uniformed (when has that ever stopped you, Suco?... Quite ..)has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

One of the Shinobi genes coming to Genesis NSO ... .

Every character has at least a few fans who asked for them. And I have seen some Joe Musashi supporters here. And I'd certainly be good with him.

Why not, it has a ton of characters a lot of people want to play, A lot more even Smash Bros could'v ever achieve, and you get play them too. In this instance, what's the difference?

One has a cast of characters chosen by a professional, but still listens to fan requests. The other has a cast of characters made by fans and the characters people want to play in Smash are ignored in Mugen in favor of meme and ****post characters like Peter Griffin, Japanese Ronald McDonald and the literal hentai tentacle slime monster. And I'm not exaggerating about that last one.

 

[Wonder Smash]

So Smash only matters over Mugen because Nintendo's behind it?

A company with a history like Nintendo? And with a ultra hit series like Smash? You'd think I'd choose MUGEN over that? Please!

 

[Perkilator]

Delzethin did a moveset remake of Luigi:

 

[SPEN18]

My take on SSE is that it was a grand idea, and solidly executed when you take into account all the natural challenges that could have prevented it from happening at all. While it may not look or feel nearly as impressive now, I'd say it was a huge sell of the crossover aspect of Smash back then. I think it has to be considered a big contributor to the success of Brawl and probably the biggest thing that, looking back on it today, differentiates Brawl from the other Smash games.

That said, I have always been conflicted about getting something like SSE again. I think with some refinement to the execution the mode could reach soaring new heights, but putting together that dream scenario would probably be quite costly in terms of resources which could also be spent on other aspects of the game. Not to mention all the pitfalls that could easily sour such a mode if not avoided properly.
So I understand if they can't pour the necessary budget into an expansive story mode. Even with cuts, I don't see a roster any smaller than base Smash 4, so with 50+ characters on the roster they would also have to be careful about giving each character enough time to shine.

The VS mode absolutely has to be the priority, and it requires a lot of attention to mechanics, roster construction, and balance. As for character interaction in general, I would love to see more of it, even if such things will always be second to the absolute success of the VS mode. That said, increasing character interaction would be one route to seriously differentiating the next Smash from Ultimate, so I don't think it should be cast under the rug without at least considering what more could be reasonably done with it.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

A company with a history like Nintendo? And with a ultra hit series like Smash? You'd think I'd choose MUGEN over that? Please!

You realize Nintendo aren't your friends right? Smash Bros should have more substance than cameos and superficial brand loyalty/corporatism

 

[Wonder Smash]

You realize Nintendo aren't your friends right? Smash Bros should have more substance than cameos and superficial brand loyalty/corporatism

Not sure where I said Nintendo were my friends. That's kind of random.

Anyway, I'm satisfied with what Nintendo makes with Smash and with their unquestionable legacy, it's obvious I'll be sticking their series over MUGEN.

Also, the characters being playable are the best representation you can get and the fact that you described them as just "cameos" makes me wonder if Smash is even for you. Maybe you're the one who should be skipping it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

Yes.

Shinobi in general suffers in comparison to Hayabusa/Ninja Gaiden by having far less of a Nintendo connection

This.

 

[Speed Weed]

At the risk of sounding uniformed (when has that ever stopped you, Suco?... Quite ..)has Joe Musashi from Shinobi ever been requested or supported for Smash?

One of the Shinobi genes coming to Genesis NSO ... .

Joe probably doesn't get much support cause he's just kind of low on the pecking order of SEGA characters for Smash. Like don't get me wrong, Shinobi's an important series to SEGA's history, but even if we're ignoring the yakoozers of the world and looking at their vintage catalogue, it has to contend with several much bigger and more important series'. I could see it getting the nod if we ever got a huge SEGA content blowout though.

anyway Hotsuma better

 

[Ivander]

anyway Hotsuma better

Joe Musashi beat Jackie Chan, Rambo, Spiderman, Batman, the Terminator T-800, Godzilla and Mecha-Godzilla in one continuity. Joe is more overpowered than Steve, so they have to go with Hotsuma to keep the game balanced.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Or This thing!

View attachment 374044

I would not be opposed. He makes a good Dev Challenge, after all.

 

[Soy_Man]

I also think most moveset gripes are overblown. The only character that imo out and out needs a redesign or something is Ganondorf for obvious reasons. Would I like for Dread elements in Samus's moveset or more Wario Land in Wario's? Sure, but those movesets as is are fine imo. I think even if the characters are not a 1 to 1 direct implementation of their canon counterparts, they sell the soul of their fighter or the series. Not every character can or willl be a 1-1 recreation. There will always be workhorse moves, they will make compromises. Workhorse moves are fine. I do not need to point at the screen that Cloud did a particular sword slash from Advent Children or that Diddy Kong did a certain hand slap like in one part of DK64. Not every aspect of a character's moves needs to be directly something. So long as you "feel" like Cloud or Diddy Kong, their moveset works.

I will second this. I'd rather they prioritise having a well-designed fighter, whose moves have good synergy and are evocative of the character, over cramming in game mechanics from the source material and making every move a direct reference.

 

[Arcanir]

Heck, MvC strayed too far from focusing on good gameplay to try to be a stronger crossover with Infinite, and that game crashed and burned. I would not use those as good examples of interaction when both of them leave a lot to be desired.

Picking on this, but Infinite's failure was not due to overfocusing on interactions over gameplay, it was primarily due to presentation issues. It had a gutted roster relative to its predecessor due to mandates out of its control (ex. Marvel doing their best to ignore the X-Men and Fantastic Four because of the movie rights) and budget issues, on top of having a poor visual style that didn't gel well with the audience. Fans were turned off of it because it didn't look good, not because it didn't play well, and in fact the gameplay was one of the defenses that were brought up for it as it was viewed more positively relative to everything else in the game.

 

[Oracle Link]

I did not think the Subspace Emissary story was that bad. Obviously, it is still not the best, but I don't think it deserves at least some of the hate or at least the dislike in some of the things about it that people give it. That's just me, though.

The thing i dislike most is how other than ike no one destroys a sub space bomb heck the entire Main Protagonist Team (Mario, Pit, yoshi, kirby and link) Does barely anything (again other than kirby) also maybe thats just me but a lot of the time they ignore the fun potential of multiple links interacting (although it is neat that toon link is on ultimates cover)

I think we dont really need a story mode (especially because sakurai killed of the entire smash cast so often already it lost all meaning)
I would be fine with the character descriptions returning from 64, and a side scroller level for every major franchise (with parts that can be used in stage builder and a new level builder) and obviously Bosses!

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Picking on this, but Infinite's failure was not due to overfocusing on interactions over gameplay, it was primarily due to presentation issues. It had a gutted roster relative to its predecessor due to mandates out of its control (ex. Marvel doing their best to ignore the X-Men and Fantastic Four because of the movie rights) and budget issues, on top of having a poor visual style that didn't gel well with the audience. Fans were turned off of it because it didn't look good, not because it didn't play well, and in fact the gameplay was one of the defenses that were brought up for it as it was viewed more positively relative to everything else in the game.

Ehh... at least part of the graphical issues and gutted roster was due to it focusing on being this crossover.

The game was pushing the crossover narrative hard, complete with a brand new story mode. By focusing on these interactions and single player content, they alienated their core audience. Obviously roster complaints were going to screw that game over; its roster is basically an MCU checklist and a weaker Capcom side did not help matters. Story was front and center when it came to roster decisions. It was a major focus not only for the devs themselves, but Marvel themselves (I had an article for this but the link is dead now on Wikipedia as a source). Does this mean we would have gotten Dr. Doom or Wolverine? No, of course not. But we could have gotten a better looking game with perhaps a more salvageable roster. By focusing resources on the story mode hard, it cut into what they could and could not do. Their focus on the story mode pushed them into the roster that we got, which was widely maligned. The bulk of resources going into making over two hours of cutscenes that needed to be reviewed by Marvel ate into the presentation.

Was the crossover aspect the main thing that killed Infinite? No, the core issues of the roster and presentation alienated fans. But those do stem from the decision to focus as hard on the story and crossover elements as they did.

 

[Sucumbio]

By focusing resources on the story mode hard, it cut into what they could and could not do.

Brawl has often be criticized for this same issue because of sse ... Iirc sakurai even said as much? But anyway do you think the next game could find that happy spot like they did with WoL which has a decent enough story,, yeah? I liked the platforming of sse ... I want a return to that, but I guess that really is like trying to make two games at once...

 

[Oracle Link]

During my ride on my bike i thought about something!
Smash speculation is fundamentaly flawed!
So a character from lets say mario is added for what reason?
Easy to make fans of that character and of mario as a whole happy right?!
So why do people who activly hate/ Dont care about a franchise have the exact same ammount of influence/ voice as the ones who do?
Some examples:
Non Zelda fans want to keep Sheik and Ganondorfs old moveset because they dont really care that sheik and g dorf have no Moves from their games and sheik being so much less important and beloved than toon link they just see Cool Heavy, Ninja and Icky Link Clone
Meanwhile Remember the HEaps of pushback BWD Got? Eventho 90% of the Kirby Fanbase either love him or wouldnt mind him non Kirby Fans were a big and loud part of the disscusion!
So what i wanna say is if you disscuss a character/ Franchise you dont know/ Hate be mindful that MAYBE the ones who want him know what theyre talking about!

If i got the two examples wrong in your case please dont take it personally i dont know your side afterall and i had to make a example!

 

[fogbadge]

During my ride on my bike i thought about something!
Smash speculation is fundamentaly flawed!
So a character from lets say mario is added for what reason?
Easy to make fans of that character and of mario as a whole happy right?!
So why do people who activly hate/ Dont care about a franchise have the exact same ammount of influence/ voice as the ones who do?
Some examples:
Non Zelda fans want to keep Sheik and Ganondorfs old moveset because they dont really care that sheik and g dorf have no Moves from their games and sheik being so much less important and beloved than toon link they just see Cool Heavy, Ninja and Icky Link Clone
Meanwhile Remember the HEaps of pushback BWD Got? Eventho 90% of the Kirby Fanbase either love him or wouldnt mind him non Kirby Fans were a big and loud part of the disscusion!
So what i wanna say is if you disscuss a character/ Franchise you dont know/ Hate be mindful that MAYBE the ones who want him know what theyre talking about!

If i got the two examples wrong in your case please dont take it personally i dont know your side afterall and i had to make a example!

well mario's reason for inclusion is that sakurai claims for the original he selected who he considered to be nintendo's main characters at the time. iirc

 

[Gengar84]

Ehh... at least part of the graphical issues and gutted roster was due to it focusing on being this crossover.

The game was pushing the crossover narrative hard, complete with a brand new story mode. By focusing on these interactions and single player content, they alienated their core audience. Obviously roster complaints were going to screw that game over; its roster is basically an MCU checklist and a weaker Capcom side did not help matters. Story was front and center when it came to roster decisions. It was a major focus not only for the devs themselves, but Marvel themselves (I had an article for this but the link is dead now on Wikipedia as a source). Does this mean we would have gotten Dr. Doom or Wolverine? No, of course not. But we could have gotten a better looking game with perhaps a more salvageable roster. By focusing resources on the story mode hard, it cut into what they could and could not do. Their focus on the story mode pushed them into the roster that we got, which was widely maligned. The bulk of resources going into making over two hours of cutscenes that needed to be reviewed by Marvel ate into the presentation.

Was the crossover aspect the main thing that killed Infinite? No, the core issues of the roster and presentation alienated fans. But those do stem from the decision to focus as hard on the story and crossover elements as they did.

I didn’t get the game because they totally left out the X-Men, which are my favorite Marvel property after Spider Man. To make things worse, they justified it by claiming that the characters are just functions and that no one should care that the characters are cut because others in the game can do similar things. I think that completely misses the appeal of a crossover game. The graphics didn’t help either. I do appreciate a good story mode in a fighting game though. Recent Mortal Kombat games do that really well in my opinion.