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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

MrMcNuts

Smash Ace
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Mar 15, 2018
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Ehh I would argue Isaac from Golden Sun is just as high up there as well. His fan demand since Brawl hasn't weakened at all, it even was the biggest thread here aside from Geno and Shantae during Ultimate's speculation cycle, he even got a mii costume and was the only old AT to get updated moves. Nevermind the fact it is among the top 20 best selling GBA games. I could go on, but he is undoubtedly, easily, in the top 5 most wanted first party characters. Just saying, let's not forget that one, lol
I wouldn't really count thread sizes here as a way to deem who's popular considering a lot of the time it's just the same people talking over and over, and like ya said shantae has a huge one and she's definitely fallen from the smash 4 days.

BUT.... I agree with everything else. As someone with no attachment to Golden Sun it's impressive how he's stood the test of time and still does well on polls! Definitely one of the more requested 1st parties like ya said❤
 

EarlTamm

Smash Hero
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Jun 17, 2018
Messages
7,335
My favorite crossover bit in PlayStation All-Stars was how the stages would be invaded by a different franchise as the match continued, leading to some very cool and memorable scenarios.

It's always going to be a shame that game had such a weak roster and tried to differentiate itself from Smash in the poorest of ways.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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Messages
10,665
One big sore point about the interactions for me is that we do get some in the victory screens, but they're extremely limited and half baked. Offhand it's just the Star Fox, KI, and FE characters that have them, and not even all of them get it so you have cases like Chrom or Robin talking to Lucina but she doesn't say a single thing back. If they're going to do it, it should be more fleshed out and yet we only get the bare minimum if even that.
I know Sephiroth got one when he beats Cloud, so at least there's that.

I wish they really leaned in on these more for the talkative characters on the roster, i mean, wouldnt it make sense for Sonic to mess with his opponents?
 

CannonStreak

Supersonic Warrior
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I know Sephiroth got one when he beats Cloud, so at least there's that.

I wish they really leaned in on these more for the talkative characters on the roster, i mean, wouldnt it make sense for Sonic to mess with his opponents?
I would love something like a Paluntena's Guidance or Snake's Codec thing where Sonic does just that.
 

Garteam

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I never really minded the absence of character interactions both because we get character interactions in the pre-release trailers in lieu of in-game interactions and because fighting games generally struggle to do inter-series character interactions well. I actually like MvCI and I think the game gets a bum rap (to a certain extent), but most of the character interactions there boil down to "Hello Thomas the Tank Engine from Thomas the Tank Engine. I am a character from another series and I am acknowledging your existence" in between genuinely fun character moments like X wielding Captain America's shield in the opening shot or Thanos utilizing the Satsu no Hado to kill Death in revenge for taking advantage of him to merge the Marvel and Capcom universes together.

What makes a crossover work from a story perspective is when characters play off each other's personalities in an organic way. That's what made the first Avengers movie so great. It wasn't just "Wow! These guys that you like are friends", a lot of the movie was focused on the natural conflict that would arise from the character's conflicting personalities, values, and experiences. That makes it all the more satisfying once the characters recognize their similarities and team up.

Unfortunately, no one has really been able to crack the code on how to introduce this slow-burning storytelling in a fighting game yet. NetherRealm Studios seems to have come the closest to getting it down, but even their narratives have been held back by the format of "cutscene contextualizing fight, followed by fight, repeat ad nauseam until the big final boss". This becomes even more complicated when you have a 30+ character roster and all of the characters need to do something compelling in the narrative. MvCI also failed massively at this, with 80% of the protagonists being completely disposable in the grander narrative and Dor-****ing-manuu showing up for a single fight and then screwing off to God knows where. SF6's world tour mode is definitely a step in an alternative direction, but I still think it'll be a while before character interactions outside of the character trailers will be a good use of dev time.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,665
The best kind of crossovers are the ones that play it like these guys all just sort of exist in the same universe together.

Makes the character interations and the story itself feel a lot more organic. Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney is the first that comes to mind with these.
 
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Perkilator

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The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
The best kind of crossovers are the ones that play it like these guys all just sort of exist in the same universe together.

Makes the character interations and the story itself feel a lot more organic. Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney is the first that comes to mind with these.
Don’t forget Project X Zone, where a lot of the characters exist in the same universe.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Would I be happy if we got more? Sure. I’d love more things like Palutena’s Guidance, Snake’s codecs, and more. It’s fun when different parts of Smash acknowledge how weird of a combination everything is. This is a game where Solid Snake can go toe to toe with Jigglypuff, Sora, and Banjo Kazooie. It is fun seeing cute interactions like that.

That being said, I am not losing sleep over not having more. I’d love things like Doc Louis giving ringside advice, Futaba giving information on opposing characters for Joker, or Gruntilda giving rhymes for each character. But I’m fine with Smash the way it is. I like seeing worlds collide in the trailers. Even something as simple as Shulk or Villager’s trailers in 4 showing the natural absurdity of smash is great to me. It would be nice to have more sure, but it’s not the end of the world that it doesn’t.
 

HyperSomari64

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Lima, Peru
Except the "Scrimblo Bimblo: the Loveable Scrunko"-type of characters that aren't at least human-like.
If a third game becomes a reality, imagine if it had a ToonTown-like scenario similar to Who Framed Roger Rabbit? where all these SG, BN and C characters reside?
(Except Mega Man (Classic) since he's not too cartoony)
 
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Ivander

Smash Legend
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Messages
10,502
osby osby
Remember this convo we had about whether a Gacha game has gotten an Offline version?
Poor Dragalia Lost. Really sucks when business has to take priority over fandom and whatnot. Even if I never played it, I feel for the fans who did play and enjoy it. And the fact that the game will become unplayable and is possibly unpreserved and lost forever, or stuck in the Vault forever, also sucks too.

Makes me really wish that Dragalia Lost would get a non-Online required Switch version that is the full game, with almost all the features, characters and whatnot, that you pay for and the Gacha system is re-worked to something similar to Xenoblade 2's Crystal Core system.
Asking because I'm genuinely curious: did any gatcha game ever do something like this before?
I honestly don't know. In terms of games that were once live-service and then discontinued, I don't know of any games that ended up getting like a full-fledged game after the live-service game was over. And while some Gacha titles have gotten spin-offs, like Granblue Fantasy and it's fighting game and Re-Link, I've never seen a Gacha game that got a version that is still Gacha, but without the major Gacha parts like real-money payment and whatnot.

If what I asked for were to miraculously happen to Dragalia Lost, it'd probably be one of the first, if not the first, title to ever do something like that.
Believe it or not, we have our first one, assuming there aren't any others that have done so before.
Megaman X Dive, a game with Gacha elements, has recently announced to End Service around September, but it is in fact getting an Offline version. By what I heard, it's not going to have all of it's Collaborations in, which is somewhat sad, but understandable, but it appears to be keeping all of the Megaman related stuff in, including from the other non-Megaman X games. But regardless, we have a game with Gacha elements getting an Offline version! There's a sliver of a sliver of hope for Dragalia Lost.

C'mon Nintendo! Follow Capcom's example and give Dragalia Lost an Offline version.
 
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chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
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Messages
8,308
osby osby
Remember this convo we had about whether a Gacha game has gotten an Offline version?



Believe it or not, we have our first one, assuming there aren't any others that have done so before.
Megaman X Dive, a game with Gacha elements, has recently announced to End Service around September, but it is in fact getting an Offline version. By what I heard, it's not going to have all of it's Collaborations in, which is somewhat sad, but understandable, but it appears to be keeping all of the Megaman related stuff in, including from the other non-Megaman X games. But regardless, we have a game with Gacha elements getting an Offline version! There's a sliver of a sliver of hope for Dragalia Lost.

C'mon Nintendo! Follow Capcom's example and give Dragalia Lost an Offline version.
Don't do that...

Don't give me hope...
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
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Messages
587
Well, Subspace Emissary was written by the same scenario writer of KH1 and 2: Mr Nojima so tropes will blend here and there.

But I don't why people using Kingdom Hearts as a negative point is contention as if it's a bad thing to have more character interaction and more elements that make it a crossover because somehow KH is the bane of most people's existence when it says more about Smash Bros then KH.

That "haha silly" Kingdom Hearts is willing to do so much more at being a crossover with character interactions and meaning celebrating its differences and elements to make a story than the supposed crossover celebrating gaming's history.

@Schnee117 has a good point

People saying "the game" and " hitting each other in the face" as a retort aren't seeing the full picture. If the point of crossover is seeing favorite things comes together in the place or Smash's case, Seeing characters from all these different games and in all these different stages from these games, then shouldn't the one place and what you do with said aspects matter just as much if not more?
 
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DynamicSmasher

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
50
I enjoyed the character trailers for what they were, but they tended to be less focused on character interactions per se and more in building up tension until the new character was revealed. Subspace did that too, but said new character would then get integrated into whatever group they'd join. And well... those character interactions and them all joining up against a greater force really stoked people's imaginations.
There's a reason the longest piece of English literature was a Smash Bros Subspace fanfiction for a while, after all.

Although, I will say that I appreciated there can be more flexibility with the character trailers in terms of artstyle, and that can produce some cool stuff like the Pit vs Link fight in the Palutena reveal trailer.
 

Dukefire

Smash Master
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Sep 7, 2018
Messages
4,467
I enjoyed the character trailers for what they were, but they tended to be less focused on character interactions per se and more in building up tension until the new character was revealed. Subspace did that too, but said new character would then get integrated into whatever group they'd join. And well... those character interactions and them all joining up against a greater force really stoked people's imaginations.
There's a reason the longest piece of English literature was a Smash Bros Subspace fanfiction for a while, after all.

Although, I will say that I appreciated there can be more flexibility with the character trailers in terms of artstyle, and that can produce some cool stuff like the Pit vs Link fight in the Palutena reveal trailer.
It is the sacrifice when added as much characters as possible for Ultimate. Story is still there, but it was made for the players to make up their own story while traveling through the World of Light/Darkness.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
587
Still.

As very few that enjoyed the World of Light and also thinks it does the crossover aspect better than Subspace, Characters interactions like FighterZ/Palutena Guidance sprinkled through the mode would really gone the long way.
 

Dukefire

Smash Master
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Messages
4,467
Still.

As very few that enjoyed the World of Light and also thinks it does the crossover aspect better than Subspace, Characters interactions like FighterZ/Palutena Guidance sprinkled through the mode would really gone the long way.
You win some, you lose some.
 

DynamicSmasher

Smash Cadet
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Messages
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As far as marketing goes, it was absolutely the right decision. Thanks to the growth of social media and the increasingly ambitious nature of character picks (i.e characters like Cloud, Joker and Steve), each reveal trailer was really an event that got people talking. And that fact almost certainly helped sales through word of mouth.
 

Opossum

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Except the "Scrimblo Bimblo: the Loveable Scrunko"-type of characters that aren't at least human-like.
Why do you bring this up literally every time PXZ comes up? Like god forbid Sonic stays out of one crossover series.
 

TCT~Phantom

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For me, the biggest reason I am ambivalent about Smash pursuing more crossover interactions is just the fact they take a lot of time. You have to ensure that all parties involved are fine with the way the characters are interacting, you have to make sure the characters feel true to themselves. It takes a lot of love to do it right.

It's similar to why I am fine that trophies are gone. I understand that it would be cool, but it is a massive drain on resources. You need to research the characters to make sure its flavorful and in character, localize these interactions for different markets, translate them, in some cases get approval of all rights holders, hire additional voice acting, and/or animate new cutscenes for them to work. I understand it would be cool, but its not something that I think is essential to Smash.

Similarly to trophies, the bulk of these crossover interactions (outside of ones with gameplay included like Palutena's Guidance or Codecs) will be happening most likely in Solo content. I feel that Smash at the end of the day is going to primarily be experienced as a multiplayer game. Yes, you do have classic mode and other modes, but the bulk of the average consumer's time with Smash is going to be spent playing local or online multiplayer. That doesn't mean Smash should have no single player content, that would be awful, but I feel like things like Trophies or in this case, crossover interactions, are best integrated in a way that plays to Smash's strengths.

Would I love extra character interactions? Of course. Part of the magic of Smash is it's natural absurdity. You have Super Mario fighting against realistic Solid Snake, anime swordfighters like Cloud, and Jigglypuff. A big part of why I think Smash pops for casuals, even if they do not have the same connection to the characters in the roster, is the visual diversity. Look at Bowser and Ganondorf side by side. Both iconic Nintendo villains, but so different in design and flavor. It's great to have vibrant, expressive movesets that help sell how these characters are from different universes. Seeing Link fight with his best gear from Breath of the Wild against bounty hunters from space or a guy with a butterfly net is just naturally silly. The trailers, Palu Guidance, and codecs all lean into this inherit weirdness.

...but do I need the development team to scratch that itch further? I would like it, but I can live without it. It would be cool to get ringside advice from Doc Louis when playing as Little Mac on the boxing ring or Futaba to give analysis on the other fighters while in Mementos. I would love a story mode that focuses more on using the characters in a crossover sense. But I do not need them. That is far lower on the totem poll of needs for me. I would rather see new areas come to life as stages. I would rather see new and old characters interact with that inherit weirdness of Smash existing.

I think wanting this stuff is valid, I would be happy with it too. But I just feel kind of lukewarm on it as of now. Maybe if they did go for that big dynamic story mode and made it truly work, I would be sold more. As things are, I just do not need them to go further.
 

Will

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Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but I can never tell if he genuinely has no self-awareness or if he's just a troll. It's better to just block him.
C398B924-84FA-42F4-860D-949603EFF794.jpeg


Well, him liking the message is either a confession to trolling or confirmation that he is completely and absolutely oblivious. :dedede:
 
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Perkilator

Smash Legend
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He seems to like every post quoting or talking about him from what I've seen.
"Every word you just spoke has made me violently angry! ...Oh, great! Now I'm agreeing with Nelson! Look what you made me do!"
"Every word you just spoke has made me violently angry! ...Oh, great! Now I'm agreeing with Perkilator! Look what you made me do!"
 

Wonder Smash

Smash Champion
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People saying "the game" and " hitting each other in the face" as a retort aren't seeing the full picture. If the point of crossover is seeing favorite things comes together in the place or Smash's case, Seeing characters from all these different games and in all these different stages from these games, then shouldn't the one place and what you do with said aspects matter just as much if not more?
Not in this case.

Like I said, that's never been what draws to me Smash. What's appealing to me is all these characters with their video game elements and bringing them together in this one common game. You got your platformers, fighting game characters, RPG characters, racers. And there's a lot of nostalgic touch to them, such as either the stages in 2D style or characters having some sound effects from older games. Because if it's supposed to be a "celebration of video games", then it's the video game part that's the most important and that should be the point here.

Now I'm not saying I'm against the characters interacting. Honestly, I thought it was cool seeing those different characters together in those cutscenes in Brawl too. Nintendo ever seemed to do that in any other games despite their huge library of iconic characters and Smash Bros seemed like the perfect series for that to happen. But they're just mere cutscenes that don't last long and therefore, the interactions themselves don't really last that long and since they don't appeal to me compared to just the characters appearing together in the first place, it doesn't matter to me to not see it.
 
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