Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

Sure thing! Here are a few that I made:

• Meowth
• Scizor
• Ayumi Tachibana
• Alph
• Snivy
• Azura
• Crash
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Dr. Eggman

Nice, I’ll take a look at these later tonight when I get out of work and share some of my own.

 

[Will]

I was wondering, since character support threads aren’t a thing at the moment, would this thread be a good place to share some basic movesets and ideas for our favorite characters?

Man, this sure could be avoided if the staff recognized that it really is that important for the next smash speculation to have such a subforum for dedicated discussion and fan creations for certain characters because a simple general discussion would then become a flooded mess given the amount of popularity for certain dolls or bandicoots or whoever else am i right or am i right hahahahaha

​

But for now, this is pretty much the definitive spot. I might dabble in certain movesets at some points if I feel like it.

 

[PeridotGX]

Man, this sure could be avoided if the staff recognized that it really is that important for the next smash speculation to have such a subforum for dedicated discussion and fan creations for certain characters because a simple general discussion would then become a flooded mess given the amount of popularity for certain dolls or bandicoots or whoever else am i right or am i right hahahahaha

​

But for now, this is pretty much the definitive spot. I might dabble in certain movesets at some points if I feel like it.

there's only like three posts here a day do you want to splinter it further.

 

[Sucumbio]

Honestly I don't see a subforum forming soon (say that 5 times fast). Any user can make a "support" thread here in Nintenzone. It may take whatever structure you desire but should not be limited to pure speculation because that's frankly limiting. So basically there's no reason to lament the absence of support threads because they're not allowed or tucked into its own thing. Make them as you please. Thread ownership can be reassigned if the op bails, title can be changed to support thread when it's necessary to alleviate board stress etc..
.

So yeah dunno why this thread be like boo when it should be like Boom!

 

[Will]

there's only like three posts here a day do you want to splinter it further.

For now, this place is considered dead. At some point, it won't be, and no one will be ready. I like to be ready than to not be. I'm not suggesting we splinter off into everything, I'm just suggesting that certain topics (i.e. movesets) can be segmented into their own little space as we bide time. Topics such as that are just as broad as speculating characters in itself, imo.

Does anyone remember that one moveset thread from back in the day where they were making it into contests?

 

[PeridotGX]

For now, this place is considered dead. At some point, it won't be, and no one will be ready. I like to be ready than to not be. I'm not suggesting we splinter off into everything, I'm just suggesting that certain topics (i.e. movesets) can be segmented into their own little space as we bide time. Topics such as that are just as broad as speculating characters in itself, imo.

Does anyone remember that one moveset thread from back in the day where they were making it into contests?

I say we cross that bridge when we get there. When things start picking up in a few years, we can start opening up some more sub-threads, but until then I say we keep everything here.

Also pretty sure you're thinking of Make Your Move. That's still a thing... with ridiculously high standards, but it's there.

 

[Sucumbio]

For now, this place is considered dead. At some point, it won't be, and no one will be ready.

Gengar84 and I got this when the activity goes up and the gators in the Swamp go chomp chomp chomp!

Edit

And for the uninitiated

Deeeeelicious!

 

[chocolatejr9]

I was wondering, since character support threads aren’t a thing at the moment, would this thread be a good place to share some basic movesets and ideas for our favorite characters? I came up with a few that I’m pretty happy with that I’d love to share at some point if anyone is interested. I figured it might be a good way to try to start building some support or at the very least show people the potential of some characters that don’t get much discussion otherwise.

Well, I've recently become obsessed with Poppy Playtime (which is weird because I'm not much of a horror fan), and have toyed with the idea of Huggy Wuggy in Smash. Granted, it's JUST an idea, as I can't make a moveset to save a life, but hey: it's something.

 

[ForsakenM]

Well, I've recently become obsessed with Poppy Playtime (which is weird because I'm not much of a horror fan), and have toyed with the idea of Huggy Wuggy in Smash. Granted, it's JUST an idea, as I can't make a moveset to save a life, but hey: it's something.

No offense, but this is one of those characters where when somebody mentions them, it makes me think of how absolutely pissed the majority of the community would rightfully be if they actually got in before, like, at minimum 30 other characters.

You can want who you want, but if anyone around this level got in before Dante or Chief, I would salute those going into an absolute meltdown because at that point it's inexcusable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No offense, but this is one of those characters where when somebody mentions them, it makes me think of how absolutely pissed the majority of the community would rightfully be if they actually got in before, like, at minimum 30 other characters.

You can want who you want, but if anyone around this level got in before Dante or Chief, I would salute those going into an absolute meltdown because at that point it's inexcusable.

Bruh all they said is that is that they think it'd be cool.

No need to go on the attack there.

 

[Will]

Bruh all they said is that is that they think it'd be cool.

No need to go on the attack there.

People were as hostile as this over Freddy Fazbear back when FNAF was still a relatively recent creation.

Maybe Indie Horror just isn't hip and cool for the geno fans and their 90s games.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Bruh all they said is that is that they think it'd be cool.

No need to go on the attack there.

People were as hostile as this over Freddy Fazbear back when FNAF was still a relatively recent creation.

Maybe Indie Horror just isn't hip and cool for the geno fans and their 90s games.

For what it's worth, I've seen what his opinions on certain things are, so I'm not surprised by the response. Besides, like I said, it's just an idea. Not much I can do with it besides share it around and hope I don't get lynched.

 

[DarthEnderX]

there's only like three posts here a day do you want to splinter it further.

Yes, because the character threads serve a real purpose beyond what we do here.

I say we cross that bridge when we get there. When things start picking up in a few years, we can start opening up some more sub-threads

Right...when it's too late to affect anything.

 

[ForsakenM]

For what it's worth, I've seen what his opinions on certain things are, so I'm not surprised by the response. Besides, like I said, it's just an idea. Not much I can do with it besides share it around and hope I don't get lynched.

I think I said 'Hmm, I think people would be angry if this popular fad character got in before a heaping list of requests since the dawn of Smash, and I would completely understand it too.'

Not sure where in that was any sort of attack? It was just stating what would clearly happen, and that I wouldn't be mad about any outrage, and in fact would stand back respectfully because...well, in all honesty, at that point it would be disrespectful of Nintendo and Sakurai to do something like that.

Poppy is just the current Baldi from Baldi's Basics, or all the rip offs of FNAF back in the day. Even if he gets an amount of staying power, FNAF would clearly be the choice in this regard. I'd defend that decision a bit from the Smash Mob since FNAF has many reasons to get in, as much as I'd rather it not. Same for Fortnite, which I'd rather it not.

I know people don't like to hear it, but sometimes things just don't stay popular. They aren't built for it, or maybe events are unfortunate and it doesn't work out, even if it seems like your favorite thing had everything going for it. As a SMRPG fan AND a Skull Girls fan, I understand this too well.

By the by, poking fun at someone being a fan of something and the flippant attitude because of an assumption is wild and reeks of Twitter Smash community gatekeeping. I'd like to think we are better than that here, but then again, this still IS the Smash community: kinda just the default to gatekeep.

Oh, and by gatekeep, I don't mean being factual about their chances or what general reactions would be, but actually harassing, labeling, and alienating people from Smash speculation based on who they want in.

Will Just to clarify, until my PC blew up I was actually playing Let It Die and some legacy N64 games I never played before while finally getting into the Legend of Zelda series for the first time (Finished OoT through TP). If I cared about playing 90s games solely, SNES online does a good job of that for the most part, and I only touch it occasionally when extremely bored. This is what happens when you believe in your own (or someone else's) assumption of someone without getting to know them: you end up being mostly wrong, sarcasm or not.

 

[Will]

Will Will Just to clarify, until my PC blew up I was actually playing Let It Die and some legacy N64 games I never played before while finally getting into the Legend of Zelda series for the first time. If I cared about playing 90s games solely, SNES online does a good job of that for the most part, and I only touch it occasionally when extremely bored. This is what happens when you believe in your own (or someone else's) assumption of someone without getting to know them: you end up being mostly wrong, sarcasm or not.

I'm teasing you bro, take it easy. That's why is there. You're here long enough to know is the /s button.

You're out here fighting for your life when no one was fighting you in the first place.

 

[ForsakenM]

I'm teasing you bro, take it easy. That's why is there. You're here long enough to know is the /s button.

You're out here fighting for your life when no one was fighting you in the first place.

I also know that people use /s to get away with actual crap.

I have reasons for being defensive, but I wasn't upset or anything, merely clarifying that I don't fill said role.

Though while on the topic, I will say that going back and playing games you grew up on is a mixed bag: a lot of games you loved turn out to be actually awful in some ways or just outright bad (Spyro 3, DK 64, Melee) while some actually stand the test of time or even outshine modern games (Gen 3 Pokemon, SMRPG, DKC, and many others).

 

[Will]

I also know that people use /s to get away with actual crap.

I have reasons for being defensive, but I wasn't upset or anything, merely clarifying that I don't fill said role.

Well neither does prefacing your post with "no offense" and then immediately bringing out every offense to call someone's idea an outrage that you would willingly support in outraging against. People just want you to respect (and/or respectfully disagree) the idea is all. Surely that can't be difficult.

Though while on the topic, I will say that going back and playing games you grew up on is a mixed bag: a lot of games you loved turn out to be actually awful in some ways or just outright bad (Spyro 3, DK 64, Melee) while some actually stand the test of time or even outshine modern games (Gen 3 Pokemon, SMRPG, DKC, and many others).

I can't relate. I still like Melee and all its jank. To call it "awful" is a little extreme unless you despise it that much. And DK64 just needed a quickswap mechanic.

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, I'll share my ideas for the Battletoads here. I feel like these guys are very underappreciated and have the look and moveset that fits Smash perfectly. I also made similar character profiles and movesets for Zegram Ghart, Magus, Sarah Kerrigan, and Illidan Stormrage but I'll just start with this one for now. Hopefully this illustrates the potential these guys have for a really fun Smash character.

Introduction
​

The Battletoads franchise was developed in 1991 by RARE in order to rival the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. These games cover a wide variety of genres within the same game, with each stage playing differently from the last. The franchise even got a one episode cartoon. While the series has been dormant since the days of the SNES, it has been kept in people's minds thanks to memes and stories of its insane difficulty.

Who are the Battletoads?​

The toads began as human computer technicians and game testers. After they began having suspicions that their boss Silas Volkimore was up to no good, they decided to investigate the office at night and discovered that one of the games they had been testing had been tampered with and were sucked into the game world. There they meet Professor T. Bird who becomes their mentor and trains them to fight the evil Dark Queen.

The Battletoads have the ability to transform their bodies into a variety of different objects such as growing ram horns to headbutt, turning their fist into a giant hammer, and even transforming their entire bodies into a wrecking ball. In addition to this, they can also pilot vehicles such as speeder bikes, jet packs, and hover crafts.

Why should they be considered for Smash Bros.?​

Battletoads and RARE have a lot of history with Nintendo. While Banjo-Kazooie may be the face of Rare in the N64 era, Battletoads was among their most iconic games of the NES and SNES eras. They also have a ton of potential to have a very unique moveset. I believe the Battletoads are strong contenders for a potential second rep for the company. The Battletoads may have gone quite a long stretch without a game of their own but they were kept alive through their cameos in Shovel Knight and Killer Instinct. They did finally get a brand new game a few years ago that was released to middling reviews but is still fun in its own right. Rash has been shown in recent promotional imaging from Microsoft which shows that they do still care about the property.

Potential Moveset

Warning: This uses a lot of GIFs to show off the attacks.​

Spoiler

Gimmick:
In their games, the Battletoads transform their limbs when they are about to inflict the finishing blow to an enemy. To represent this in Smash, one potential idea is to power up their attacks when the opponent is at 100% damage or higher. This would be visually represented by having their limbs transform. If this wouldn't work, just having their limbs always transform for attacks can also work, similarly to Rash's moveset in Killer Instinct.

Weak Attacks:
A Combo — Kiss My Fist
The Battletoad attacks with two regular punches followed by a big punch where his fist grows.

Forward Tilt — BT Big Hammer
The Battletoad attacks by swinging both hands left then right. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, the attack will be replaced by a giant hammer.

Up Tilt
A short uppercut

Down Tilt — Ball n’ Chain
The Battletoad delivers a leg sweep. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, this attack becomes stronger and his foot is replaced by a spiked ball and chain.

Running A — Charge n’ Barge
The Battletoad delivers a running head butt to his opponent. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, this attack becomes stronger and the Battletoad has ram horns appear on his head.

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash — Big Bad Boot
The Battletoad punts his opponent. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, this attack becomes stronger and the Battletoad’s foot turns into a big boot and he jumps in the air a bit.

Up Smash — Stone Fist
The Battletoad delivers a fierce uppercut. Normally, his hand just grows bigger (like many of Mario’s attacks), but if the opponent is at 100% or higher, this attack becomes stronger and his fist turns to stone.

Down Smash
The Battletoad clasps his hands together (like Donkey Kong’s Aerial Forward A) and smashes his opponent into the ground (like Donkey Kong’s Forward B).

Specials:
Neutral B — Walker Leg
The Battletoad takes out a walker leg. After striking with this a few times, it leads to a command grab where they lift their opponent up and can choose to either smack them forward or toss them backward.

Forward B — Speeder Bike
This could work exactly like Wario’s motorcycle, except they would be using their speeder bikes from the Turbo Tunnel stages.

Up B — Rope
The Battletoad swings his arm like Donkey Kong’s windup punch and throws a rope upwards and attaches to any surface that he uses to swing like Spiderman. If you press B while swinging, he can turn into a wrecking ball and attack the opponent. This can be used as a tether recovery.

Down B — Drilla Killa
The Battletoad launches forward with an drill, using animation like Metaknight’s Forward B. When using it in the air, it would travel diagonally downwards like Falcon Kick.

Grabs:

Grab
The Battletoads have a tether grab with their tongue similar to Yoshi. Unlike Yoshi, the toads don’t swallow their opponents and only drags them closer like Link’s hookshot. Like the hookshot, the toads can also use their tongues as another tether recovery.

Pummel
The Battletoad kicks their opponent in the gut.

Forward Throw
The Battletoads pick up and carry their opponent similar to DK and can toss them in several directions.

Back Throw
The Battletoad grabs their opponent’s head and smashes them back and forth into the ground.

Up Throw
A simple toss upwards

Down Throw
The Battletoads jump in the air and slam their opponent down similar to DK's throw.

Aerial Attacks:
Neutral A
The Battletoad attacks with his arms outstretched and hitting enemies on both sides.

Forward A — Anvil Swipe
Something very similar to Gandondorf's. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, this attack becomes stronger and his hand is replaced by an anvil.

Back A — Flying Battleaxe
This attack would look a lot like Fox's. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, the move becomes stronger and his foot could become an axe.

Up A — Soarin’ Saw Blade
The base attack would be a standard somersault kick like Ganondorf. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, the move becomes stronger and his feet are replaced by a Buzz Saw.

Down A — Wun Tun Stomp
The Battletoad stomps down with one foot similar to DK but it causes the Battletoad to drop down like Toon Link’s Aerial Down A. If the opponent is at 100% or higher, this attack becomes stronger and the battletoad’s foot is replaced by a huge weight.

Final Smash
This could play pretty much exactly like Pikachu’s Final Smash. The Battletoad could turn into a spiked wrecking ball instead of an electric one. Afterwards, all of the Battletoad’s attacks can be their fully powered up versions for a little while.

Music:
The Battletoads games have a great selection of awesome music to choose from. Here are just a few examples:

Battletoads & Double Dragon - Title Theme
Battletoads & Double Dragon - Stage 1 Theme
Battletoads & Double Dragon - Dark Queen
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs - Dark Queen
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs - Ragnarok Canyon
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs - Turbo Tunnel

 

[DarthEnderX]

I will say that going back and playing games you grew up on is a mixed bag: a lot of games you loved turn out to be actually awful in some ways or just outright bad (Spyro 3, DK 64, Melee) while some actually stand the test of time or even outshine modern games (Gen 3 Pokemon, SMRPG, DKC, and many others).

Keep in mind, there's a difference between "this was always bad, and I was too young to know any better" and "this was good at the time, but better stuff came out since".

 

[ForsakenM]

Well neither does prefacing your post with "no offense" and then immediately bringing out every offense to call someone's idea an outrage that you would willingly support in outraging against. People just want you to respect (and/or respectfully disagree) the idea is all. Surely that can't be difficult.


I can't relate. I still like Melee and all its jank. To call it "awful" is a little extreme unless you despise it that much. And DK64 just needed a quickswap mechanic.

Melee really is awful in retrospect, at least in my eyes. I used to prefer it over Brawl, but I'm not sure if I can anymore. I had an eye-opening moment on how broken the game is and that all the hype for Melee stems around the abuse of that brokenness and not the actual game or what it was meant to be. Brawl just lives up to its design intentions and is a better built game in so many ways, it's incredible.

As for my post starting with the phrase 'no offense', that was because I knew I was being realistic about a character and their chances which, in the case of a character who is set up to be a passing fad, means the chances are honestly abysmal. Just being honest like that could upset someone. I never said I would actively join in the outrage outright, merely that I would understand and step back while it happened. Call it silent support if you will, and once again, I would find it completely understandable in such an event. Think of it how you would normally step in to stop a fight between two men, but in this particular instance you know that one man committed a horrible act against the other man's family, something absolutely inexcusable: it's probably not the most healthy thing to happen, but you might just look the other way in this instance.

I'm not exactly sure what is being asked here in regards to respecting a pick that is very low on the chance of likelihood. I acknowledged it was an idea, obviously it totally could happen in the terms of anything can happen, and I pointed out the issues with it. I also avoided doing it in my typical long-post format, which people seem to dislike. I fail to see the need to say 'Yeah, technically it could happen' when that is base line obvious. I see it in the same vain as someone who makes little money saying they could buy a Lamborighini, or how someone who is overweight but refuses to exercise or diet saying they will lose a ton of weight: theoretically, anything is possible, but why does that need to be openly said that anything is possible? Wouldn't it make more sense to dig into what is more or most likely?

Also, DK64 needed a lot of things, but something I've noticed that MAY be a hot take is this: Rare was pushing for ridiculous amounts of collectibles as far back as Diddy King Racing, and it's boring game design when you enforce too many of these...something many of their games other than DK64 are guilty of. The original Banjo-Kazooie is the least of these by far, but it also has many issues of bad game design.

 

[MeteoRain]

I've said this before, but I wish Traveller's Tales was free from the LEGO mines and owned Crash and Spyro just so they could be under better circumstances.

I wish Sony just pried them from Universal Interactive's grubby cow milking hands before they moved on to the PS2.

 

[Geno Boost]

Would MissingNo. be regarded as never ever in smash?
I think his addition would be crazy to have

 

[UserKev]

I also know that people use /s to get away with actual crap.

I have reasons for being defensive, but I wasn't upset or anything, merely clarifying that I don't fill said role.

Though while on the topic, I will say that going back and playing games you grew up on is a mixed bag: a lot of games you loved turn out to be actually awful in some ways or just outright bad (Spyro 3, DK 64, Melee) while some actually stand the test of time or even outshine modern games (Gen 3 Pokemon, SMRPG, DKC, and many others).

Hard disagree. My dude, Spyro 3 was far from outright bad and is still replaya-ble to now. Melee, while gameplay can be unbearable, still holds up, has peak single player modes and gives you a sense of a classic game. DK64 has its own dilemma. The games maybe starting to show signs of struggle, to say that "Outright bad" is like having lack of chill pills. A game can still eventually serve as a quirky call back.

I agree that Brawl is better built than Melee, but tripping makes Brawl difficult to revisit. This will always give Melee the edge over it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Would MissingNo. be regarded as never ever in smash?
I think his addition would be crazy to have

Okay, here me out: MissingNo. becomes Pokemon #1000. Also, when you first discover it, it displays as #000 because the Pokedex can only do triple digits.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I was wondering, since character support threads aren’t a thing at the moment, would this thread be a good place to share some basic movesets and ideas for our favorite characters? I came up with a few that I’m pretty happy with that I’d love to share at some point if anyone is interested. I figured it might be a good way to try to start building some support or at the very least show people the potential of some characters that don’t get much discussion otherwise.

Well, I do have two concepts, but one of them is from a long-dead 3rd-party series, and the other one is a real person, so neither are likely to happen at all. Nonetheless, here they are: Beat, from the Jet Set Radio series, and Neil Cicierega, internet icon.

 

[ZelDan]

Eh, I don't think Melee is THAT broken. I mean, yeah Melee has alot of jank and glitchy stuff, but the really bad stuff is stuff you REALLY have to go out of your way to trigger IIRC.

At the very least I've put thousands of hours into Melee back in the day (both casual and competitive play) and I don't recall running into anything serious.

 

[Sucumbio]

13.0.1

Your MW last minute chr confirmed

Keep in mind, there's a difference between "this was always bad, and I was too young to know any better" and "this was good at the time, but better stuff came out since".

Tiger Heli was great..

https://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/nintendo-switch/toaplan-arcade-garage-kyukyoku-tiger-heli

...

The one with the 6 wheeler that shot up and front and down and had crazy side scrolling jump jump slide slide levels

Hard but fun I played past get home for dinner time and got away with it but I forget the game title

....

Marble Madness was a bad game for me I sucked at it.

Deadly Towers was fun but exhausting...

I'm trying to think of a game I played on NES that fits your description.

I am lucky in this regard because my fondness isn't tainted.

In fact going back through every game I've owned not one was a game I played once and never touched again.

And I've played 100s by now...

So like Ice Climbers is pretty horrible lol did any one play that? It wasn't on the shelf at Funcoland when I was getting into NES...

I need to know. Otherwise my distaste for that game is based on it not being a game I played during my interest in the system. I am okay with this reaction if it's not a game that's in Smash, see, so it's like all this talk about relevance and stuff kinda begs questions.

Google News

Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

Hmmm.

Edit

Whoops @Ramen Tengoku mb

 

[Perkilator]

On the topic of movesets, I think BWD switching between a Spear and Parasol would be pretty cool! Here's would I did with this concept:

Spoiler: BWD moveset

Intro: BWD gets tossed onto the battlefield and wipes the dust off himself

Stance/Idle 1: His idle animation from Return to Dream Land onwards
Idle 2: BWD stretches his arms
Idle 3: BWD admiringly glances at his weapon

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. BWD (dee-fault)
2. P2 colors (yellow)
3. P3 colors (cyan)
4. P4 colors (green)
5. Kirby (pink)
6. King Dedede (cyan/red)
7. Meta Knight (navy blue)
8. Game Boy sprite (monochrome)

Walk: His walk from the modern Kirby games
Dash: His dash from the modern Kirby games
Damage: His damage animation from the modern Kirby games
Jump: His jump from the modern Kirby games; like the rest of the Kirby roster, Bandana Dee can jump up to six times
Crouch: His crouch from the modern Kirby games

Gimmick: BWD alternates between using a Spear and a Parasol. Every time a match starts, BWD always starts with a Spear.

Normal Attacks
Jab:

• Multispear Thrust; BWD slashes twice (6%, small knockback), flurries with multiple spear thrusts (1% each, small knockback), and finishes with a straight jab (7%, OK knockback)
• Drill Spray; BWD twirls his parasol and sprays water on the opponent (1% each, small knockback)

Forward+A

• Spear Thrust; BWD thrusts his spear straight forward (5%, small knockback)
• Parasol Poke; BWD pokes the opponent with his parasol, which opens up (6%, OK knockback)

Down+A:

• Slide; BWD slides across the ground (5%, small knockback)
• Parasol Twirl; BWD hops slightly above the ground with his parasol (4%, small knockback)

Up+A:

• Skyward Thrust; BWD thrusts his spear upwards (7%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Twirl; BWD twirls his parasol above himself (4%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A:

• Windmill; BWD twirls his spear below himself (9%, OK knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol in front of himself and sprays water around himself (10%, OK knockback)

Air Forward+A:

• Multispear Thrust; BWD rapidly thrusts his spear thrice (6%, small knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol in front of himself and sprays (10%, OK knockback)

Air Back + A:

• Back Thrust; BWD thrusts his spear behind him (6%, small knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol behind himself and sprays water (10%, OK knockback)

Air Up+A:

• Drill Thrust; BWD points his spear above himself and spins like a drill (7%, small knockback)
• Rainshower; BWD twirls his parasol above himself and sprays water (10%, OK knockback)

Air Down+A:

• Moon Drop; BWD briefly spins his spear, and then drops down (11%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Dive; BWD slowly falls down while using his parasol to break his fall (8%, small knockback)

Dash Attack:

• Ground Thrust; BWD dashes a long distance and runs his spear through the ground, thrusting upwards at the end (8%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Drill; BWD dashes forward and spins his parasol (11%, OK knockback)

Edge Attack: BWD pokes on the edge (6%, small knockback)
Get-Up Attack: BWD spins on the ground (8%, OK knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A:

• Pinpoint Thrust; BWD thrusts forward, with an influence in direction based on the control stick’s direction (14%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Swing; BWD flaps his parasol as water spouts out of it (21%, medium knockback)

Up+A:

• Windmill; BWD hops up and twirls spear above himself (15%, OK knockback)
• Chumbrella; BWD thrusts his parasol above his head (7%) and opens it around the entire space just above it (17%, medium knockback)

Down+A:

• Finishing Leap; BWD jumps up and pokes the ground, creating a shockwave (14%, OK knockback)
• Parasol Twirl; BWD spins his parasol on the ground as water splashes around it (18%, medium knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: BWD grabs the opponent with his stubby little hand
Pummel: BWD headbutts the opponent (2%)
Forwards+Throw:

• Waddle Spear Barrage; BWD tosses three spears at the opponent (4% each, OK knockback)
• Aqua Cannon; BWD shoots the opponent out of his parasol (11%, OK knockback)

Down+Throw:

• Moon Drop; BWD jumps up high and crashes back down to stab the opponent (12%, OK knockback)
• Rainstorm; BWD opens his umbrella as it rains on the opponent (10%, OK knockback)

Back+Throw:

• Spear Fishing; BWD lifts up the opponent with a rope on his spear and tosses them behind himself (9%, OK knockback)
• Aqua Cannon; BWD turns around and shoots the opponent out of his parasol (11%, OK knockback)

Up+Throw:

• Spear Copter; BWD twirls his spear and lifts the opponent in a gust of wind (5%, OK knockback)
• Circus Throw; BWD spins the opponent around on his parasol and chucks them upwards (11%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B : Spear Throw / Aqua Shot

• With the spear, BWD charges up to three spears to throw (5% each, small knockback). He can also angle the throw by tilting the control stick up or down and throw one spear after another while moving left or right.
• With the parasol; BWD fires a ball of water that falls to the ground after being shot (6%, small knockback). When fully charged, the ball fires quickly and never falls (18%, medium knockback).

B + Forwards : Gale Thrust / Parasol Shield

• With the spear, BWD charges an attack that has him dashing forward at high speed and distance (13%, OK knockback)
• With the parasol, BWD and uses it as a shield. It can either reflect projectiles or stop the damage from any other attack, but it's only open for a second.

B + Up : Waddle Copter / Parasol Drift

• With the spear, BWD flies around using it as a helicopter (15%, OK knockback); by holding B on the ground, BWD can fly freely in any direction
• With the parasol, BWD jumps up and opens his parasol, slowly falling to the ground afterwards (4% each hit, small knockback). Like Peach and Daisy, BWD can close his by pressing down.

B + Down : Switch Weapons; BWD switches his weapons around. The weapon he’s not using is indicated by the Assist Star icon on the top left of his HUD.

Final Smash: Megaton Punch; BWD punches up to two opponents in front of him (7%), both of which are taken into a cutscene where he jumps high into the air, and then punches the ground so strongly, it creates a fissure that snaps Pop Star in two (55%, devastating knockback). Opponents above 100% are instantly K.O.'d.

Taunts
1: BWD looks around him, loosely mimicking his artwork from Return to Dream Land
2: BWD happily waves his arms
1+2: BWD falls asleep, thinking about an apple

Winposes
1: BWD’s win pose from the Megaton Punch minigame
2: BWD spins his spear and raises it upwards, mimicking his summon animation from Star Allies
3: BWD's victory animation form Return to Dream Land

Applause: BWD opens his parasol in the rain, sad about losing
Icon: Kirby series icon
Boxing Ring Title: Helper to Hero
Victory Music: https://youtu.be/CEIwsGXvwfU
Kirby Hat: BWD’s…well, bandana

 

[Rie Sonomura]

13.0.1

Your MW last minute chr confirmed

Does Sora have any major bugs concerning him? They must be so major that they’ll affect replays. Idk.

truth be told tho I hope they do at least one more update where the middle number changes, like for another Small Battlefield type deal wherein we get a new free stage, maybe randomly added new music, a minor new feature, idc

 

[Will]

Does Sora have any major bugs concerning him? They must be so major that they’ll affect replays. Idk.

Could just be balance changes and they don't want Sora to be the next Bayo or something. I don't know, I haven't really been watching competitive Ultimate lately so I have no clue how well Sora is doing compared to someone far worse (as in high tier) like Pyra or something.

 

[ForsakenM]

Hard disagree. My dude, Spyro 3 was far from outright bad and is still replaya-ble to now. Melee, while gameplay can be unbearable, still holds up, has peak single player modes and gives you a sense of a classic game. DK64 has its own dilemma. The games maybe starting to show signs of struggle, to say that "Outright bad" is like having lack of chill pills. A game can still eventually serve as a quirky call back.

I agree that Brawl is better built than Melee, but tripping makes Brawl difficult to revisit. This will always give Melee the edge over it.

A single mechanic to me is not enough to trump...

• A heavily-rushed release leading to a game that is ridden with glitches and bugs.
• Padding out a roster with so many clones due to said rush.
• Lacking tons of polish (G&W as a whole, Luigi's dash attack missing hitboxes, Battlefield's ledges, Ice Climber's wobbling, etc)
• The fact that the game actually feels clunky and not all that fast when not abusing it.

Brawl does many things right or better than Melee, but Melee is only 'somewhat awful' because it does a number of things right, the biggest one being Adventure Mode imo. I think that the perfect Arcade Mode for Smash would be combining Adventure Mode with the single player of Smash 4: having the variety of encounters and having all the worlds seemingly fuse together while having lots of difficulty options and multiple pathways to choose from sounds like a fantastic time that offers lots of replayability to a mode that would see little play nowadays. Definitely better than just a Classic Mode that is mostly about references.

In fact, my biggest issue with Melee is how the community treats it, not the game itself. Melee is no longer a game you can casually play with friends despite all the goofy fun stuff there: you HAVE to play it competitively, that's all it's seen as now. It's almost to the point where playing Melee as it was originally intended is socially unacceptable, and the elitism is real and, in some ways, unearned. I remember having a blast playing on Big Blue and Poke Floats as Luigi because I had fun playing as him and I thought Green Missile was funny. Now I have to wait for Nintendo to hopefully do a Gamecube online because when the community made Slippi they had no thoughts or concerns for someone who wants to play with their friends online. It's the best way to play Melee...and yet not a single casual player was considered, because apparently only Nintendo cares about that.

Like, for goodness sake, you can glitch through the stage on one of Pokemon Stadium's transformations and yet that WASN'T ENOUGH to ban the stage and you just had to accept that could happen. Instead of banning the stage or using an updated version of the game to fix that bug, you just had to accept that it could happen to you and that people would try to make it happen...but now the answer is to mod the game some more to make it not even have transformations.

This is something that is starting to plague all of Smash, but it started with people breaking a Gamecube game and thinking that the more you could break it, the better it was at being competitive...which is both true and false. TL;DR There are more broken games than Melee, but there are a heaping more that are more complete, and if there wasn't a massive scene for it no one would be speaking as positively about the game...and elitists need to get more of a grip on reality and be objective about their game. Also, the more changes you have to make in order to make your favorite game competitive, the ore you should realize that perhaps it was never made with that competition in mind. Not telling you to give up, but realize what you are up against, and don't act like it's the best thing ever in a category you had to change so much of the game for it to fit into.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About Spyro 3...as much as I remembered it fondly, it is the worst of the original trilogy, objectively speaking. The original was limited sure, but Ripto's Rage did an amazing job and Spyro 3 kinda took the Rare approach to things and plugged in unfun or unneeded minigames to get more collectibles. The only frustrating thing about Ripto's Rage is forced backtracking through some minigames and progression walls: you can't enter a level and 100% it, you have to come back later with a new move, and usually it ends up being mostly pointless and reeks of padding.

Through the power of memes and jokes, let us remember the pain of Spyro 3...

• Billy Lee and Jimmy Lee
• Yeti stole my bike-I mean, ball!
• 'Cause they'd fill the open air, and leave tear drops everywhere.' (alternatively, 'Oww, I went boom again!')
• Dial 'M' For Monkey, Especially In Case of Ninjas
• Whack-A-Mole has never been less fun
• Never have Byrds fight your wars.
• Rynocs Really Relish Rocket Racing
• Speaking of racing, hope you like blue stars!
• 'My skateboard NEVER stops!'
• 1080 Snowboarding for N64: Dragon Edition!
• Trying to blow up the rhino guards without setting Po's village on fire.
• Tanks a lot!

Now don't get me wrong, like I said, Spyro 2 has it's fair share of issues as well. I still want to slam my head into the nearest object when I hear 'Trouble with the trolley, eh?' Also, there are things Spyro 3 does right that Spyro 2 did poorly, like the actual story. However, if Spyro 1 is a pure 3D platformer, then Spyro 2 is a 3D platformer with some minigames and Spyro 3 is a collection of minigames that requires you to platform to access them.

Honestly, upon reflection, I think all the games had fairly big issues, but Spyro 3 stands out the most...well, of the original trilogy anyway.

Let's not talk about DK64. There are no excuses. It's Rare showing the signs of their ideas being at their worst in terms of gameplay. Spyro 2 and 3 are masterpieces in comparison. DK64 IS outright bad, and a shining example on how NOT to do many MANY things in game design. This isn't a case of 'Better things have released since then' but instead 'This was always garbage and I was too young to understand it because 3D DK.'

 

[toonito]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/r48k0d
Stolen from reddit but here's a thought experiment:

How would ya'll feel if there's a Smash game that only allows one character per franchise? To go even further any newcomers to the game can only come from new franchises and would be the ONLY rep of that franchise.

Thoughts?

 

[Geno Boost]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/r48k0d
Stolen from reddit but here's a thought experiment:

How would ya'll feel if there's a Smash game that only allows one character per franchise? To go even further any newcomers to the game can only come from new franchises and would be the ONLY rep of that franchise.

Thoughts?

pretty bad almost no villain besides Kazuya

 

[Rie Sonomura]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/r48k0d
Stolen from reddit but here's a thought experiment:

How would ya'll feel if there's a Smash game that only allows one character per franchise? To go even further any newcomers to the game can only come from new franchises and would be the ONLY rep of that franchise.

Thoughts?

Honestly, not good. Different installments in franchises can have something unique to offer, and you miss on that by having only one representative of that franchise

also, WHICH Mii is being used? Swordfighter? Brawler? Gunner? …a weird combination of all three?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/r48k0d
Stolen from reddit but here's a thought experiment:

How would ya'll feel if there's a Smash game that only allows one character per franchise? To go even further any newcomers to the game can only come from new franchises and would be the ONLY rep of that franchise.

Thoughts?

Mii has to be an all new character then, but otherwise, hell no with the DK/Yoshi/Wario thing. They are officially different franchises.

Still, it's pretty bleh even then. That'd be good for a starting roster, but there's way more characters to be in in the first place. A good chunk of cuts make no sense as is.

 

[Sucumbio]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/r48k0d
Stolen from reddit but here's a thought experiment:

How would ya'll feel if there's a Smash game that only allows one character per franchise? To go even further any newcomers to the game can only come from new franchises and would be the ONLY rep of that franchise.

Thoughts?

I say it bad.

But as a way to think about the next game could I vote for my 1 favorite from each franchise and under the rule that newcomers have to be new franchises urg...... That's tough even for me. I'd have to think about it. Long lists are like boogers you just wanna get rid of them.

 

[HyperSomari64]

also, WHICH Mii is being used? Swordfighter? Brawler? Gunner? …a weird combination of all three?

Hey, that's doesn't sound like a bad idea.

 

[skylanders fan]

Yeah I’m not a fan of it either but I think it would be more likely for Goku and Mickey to get in smash before they would only do one per franchise

 

[HyperSomari64]

Yeah I’m not a fan of it either but I think it would be more likely for Goku and Mickey to get in smash before they would only do one per franchise

Goku and ****ing Mickey Mouse? Yeah, No!
Fortnite is right on the corner, and there is a lot of Smash clones with non-video game properties (more bad than good ones)

 

[chocolatejr9]

SEGA has recently officially acknowledged Shade and Sonic Chronicles.

Get bent, Ken Penders. pic.twitter.com/IxfWvCvLkg

— Celest | ENVTuber (@CelestOrion) November 26, 2021

If they made Shade playable in Smash for the sole purpose of spiting Ken Penders, I would be perfectly fine with that...

Wait a minute, is it possible to add a character to Smash out of spite?