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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Nabbitfan730

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PR speak is just that. Remember when BLM was trashing towns and burning property to the ground while attacking, maiming and killing people who were just trying to defend their businesses? Well Nintendo put out a PR statement talking about supporting BLM and I think they even donated a very small fraction of money, but we all know it was nothing more than clearing their bases since the mobs on social media were essentially making a list of companies to boycott if they didn't do some PR speak and they wanted to look good at the time.
That was Pokémon Company actually, not Nintendo. Even then I definitely don't agree with that decision either

I may be wrong, but I think this is also mostly a Blizzard thing in terms of it being people from the Blizzard side pre-merger causing these issues. This could very much be like Square Enix where the two sides mainly do their own thing, so Activision might be able to shake some of this off their shoulders and shine through while working through this horrible crap that went on.
There are all one in the same. Even the Head of Activision is getting under fire

Also DarthEnderX DarthEnderX I think it's you that has the bad take on this. Essentially, you don't want the #1 character on the MegaSmash Poll and a character people really hyped and people both within and outside of Smash really would like to see because you want to...punish a AAA company for having horrible people do horrible things? You do realize that's what the court of law is for, right? That isn't our job, nor is it Nintendo's job. Nintendo's job is to make and sell games and gaming-related products. Glad to know you are the kind of person who would punish the many for the actions of a few. We've hit a new level of gatekeeping characters, but somehow we didn't gatekeep Dragon Quest when the composer is the Japanese equivalent of actually believe the 'Hitler did nothing wrong' meme and completely disowns very similar acts done on a way more massive scale during war time.
I agree somewhat but I really doubt Nintendo would care about a poll and random fans over PRs and Brand Image, especially in Japan where it's most important. They even avoid the Olympics for this. Activision is no different especially on a lesser scale.

Plus Nintendo was never really known for fan demand especially in Smash except for Banjo and Steve or even overall for their own games.

Like, you DO know that if Nintendo says 'We were gonna get Crash, but Acti/Blizz is run by nasty people, so we changed our minds' that it will not go over well with everyone because many folks can separate these two incidents, right? Especially since Crash isn't even their own creation? I think people would be more upset if Tracer got in over Crash in this scenario. It's not like the garbage bags of humans beings working at Blizzard directly make money from a deal like that anyway, and if Nintendo pulls out support for Activision that doesn't mean they would stop EVERYTHING with them and especially not things already in the works.
Actually they do make money. Good amount at that + PR boost using their characters. They literally own Crash. That why Smash request from companies + Platform fighters are becoming more popular now.

If Crash hasn't been agreed upon yet, as brutal and awful as it sounds, this is actually really good leverage for negotiations now that I think about it. 'Hey, I know you guys are looking really awful in the PR Department right now, what with Vanguard being awful and all the actual misogyny you guys practiced, but you guys are pushing through to make it better...you know, getting Crash in Smash would really add to helping your image! How about you say yes to our price, not sure you have much room to negotiate here, being know as the scumball company and all.'
This is just a naïve mindset. A character in smash doesn't handwave all that gone down at ActiviBlizz. Their image won't improve but instead just drags Nintendo down.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Remember when BLM was trashing towns and burning property to the ground while attacking, maiming and killing people who were just trying to defend their businesses?
No.

Also DarthEnderX DarthEnderX I think it's you that has the bad take on this.
Yeah, you think a lot of **** that's wrong.

I'm not supporting a company who is horrible, I'm supporting fans who are great who want a character that is great and has a legacy that earns a spot in Smash.
Except the money from the DLC goes to the horrible company, not the great fans.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Look I'm just saying...

Sugiyama said and did some bad stuff, but nobody got killed or sexually assaulted due to his actions or deliberate lack of action.

I can't say the same for the Activision case.



And I might add... the BLM comparison... was tactless, inaccurate and... lowkey sus.
 

dream1ng

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Again, we are way too far away from the next game for this to be a legitimate concern for Smash. Activision is going to do what it needs to do to make sure it stays on working terms with at least Microsoft and Sony, and at that point Nintendo isn't going to feel the "moral" (business) obligation to distance themselves if the other two aren't.

Riot has been at an ongoing state of employees rallying against the unprofessional and discriminatory behaviour within their walls, and Nintendo just did that joint presentation wherein all those LoL spin-offs were announced for Switch. The hesitation is performative more than sincere. At least at the business level. On a personal level people are probably obviously against what's going on, but once the heat is off they're all going to jump back in bed together again, and Activision has several years to temper the current fires to the extent companies will work with them before the next Smash is even a thing.

Honestly, by the next Smash, this won't even be in the public mindshare anymore, for better or for worse. This would really only be an issue if Nintendo were choosing characters right now or within this proximity.
 

TCT~Phantom

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I've been busy, lets see what the thread is discussing today...

Oh.

PR speak is just that. Remember when BLM was trashing towns and burning property to the ground while attacking, maiming and killing people who were just trying to defend their businesses? Well Nintendo put out a PR statement talking about supporting BLM and I think they even donated a very small fraction of money, but we all know it was nothing more than clearing their bases since the mobs on social media were essentially making a list of companies to boycott if they didn't do some PR speak and they wanted to look good at the time.
First off, this is at best misguided and at worst blatant right wing fearmongering that is divorced from reality. I find it disgusting that you even attempt to link what Activision Blizzard did with your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

The Activision Blizzard Stuff is far worse than what your tinfoil hat PR situation or the Sugiyama situation. People have been threatened with their lives over this situation. The workplace culture at Activision is atrocious, the amount of abuse that happened across Activision Blizzard was a systemic issue, plaguing multiple different development teams across the company. Does that mean that everyone at AB sucks? No, the employees have openly protested the issue with walk outs and its clear that not everyone working at AB is a monster. But this is such a systemic horrible issue that the three console developers and the ****ing US government have had weigh their opinions. Comparing this to the Sugiyama situation is tactless. Comparing it to your make believe dystopian fantasy out of Tucker Carlson's alternate reality is grossly disgusting and irresponsible.

I'm probably the biggest Crash supporter on the site, but I find the mental gymnastics you are going through right now to explain away the most toxic workplace in gaming absolutely infuriating. If people do not want to support Crash because of the Activision Blizzard stuff, so be it. It won't stop me from supporting Crash, but I completely understand how people can be extremely apprehensive about bringing Activision to the fold. People have the right to not support a character for whatever reasons they see fit. I for intense do not care for Geno because I do not take kindly to being shouted at for saying a character is not a lock due to not following lockstep behind a wannabe cult leader. People don't support Paper Mario because they want a moveset that only derives from TTYD or the original. Others might say that Bandana Dee is a boring addition. Not wanting Crash because of the Activision Blizzard situation is completely valid and a position that even as a strong Crash advocate I completely understand, its way more valid than any of these at least imo.

Not wanting Crash because of what has happened is valid. Wanting Crash still is also valid. But you should not try to handwave away gross systemic issues that exist and were not halted under Kotick's helm.

Again, we are way too far away from the next game for this to be a legitimate concern for Smash. Activision is going to do what it needs to do to make sure it stays on working terms with at least Microsoft and Sony, and at that point Nintendo isn't going to feel the "moral" (business) obligation to distance themselves if the other two aren't.

Riot has been at an ongoing state of employees rallying against the unprofessional and discriminatory behaviour within their walls, and Nintendo just did that joint presentation wherein all those LoL spin-offs were announced for Switch. The hesitation is performative more than sincere. At least at the business level. On a personal level people are probably obviously against what's going on, but once the heat is off they're all going to jump back in bed together again, and Activision has several years to temper the current fires to the extent companies will work with them before the next Smash is even a thing.

Honestly, by the next Smash, this won't even be in the public mindshare anymore, for better or for worse. This would really only be an issue if Nintendo were choosing characters right now or within this proximity.
As much as I dislike the AB situation, I agree completely. With how much pressure AB is under, Kotick will likely get tossed under the bus for good reason and reforms will happen. By the time we see Smash 6, AB's issues right now will almost certainly be a thing of the past. You still see people wanting Konami and Ubisoft characters, who also had their own terrible scandals that had people disown the companies for a short while.

Here's hoping that by Smash 6, it is truly something of the past and not just no longer in the spotlight. The reports I read were heartbreaking to read.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Alright we’re definitely going to have to change this subject. Especially in terms of replies. Let’s move on to something else.

Like for instance: it’s an absolute crime they never added Zanzibar Breeze to the game
 

Rie Sonomura

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Alright we’re definitely going to have to change this subject. Especially in terms of replies. Let’s move on to something else.

Like for instance: it’s an absolute crime they never added Zanzibar Breeze to the game
Boi I got a ton of tracks they should have added:
  • literally ANYTHING from Xenoblade Chronicles X
  • Fly Octo Fly, heck, most of the Octo Expansion OST as a whole
  • The SWSH Gym Theme, I get it was a bit late but still
  • Volcanic Rim
  • Theme of Captain Falcon I mean come the FRICK on
  • Most of F-Zero GX’s OST as a whole
  • Some TMS music, we got a spirit but no music, that’s ****ed
  • Shambhala. Yes. Dubstep in Smash. You’re welcome
  • Aqua Road
  • Hi-Spec Robo Go!
  • Life Will Change, it was in Joker’s trailer but not the game proper, what’s up with that
 

Gengar84

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Boi I got a ton of tracks they should have added:
  • literally ANYTHING from Xenoblade Chronicles X
  • Fly Octo Fly, heck, most of the Octo Expansion OST as a whole
  • The SWSH Gym Theme, I get it was a bit late but still
  • Volcanic Rim
  • Theme of Captain Falcon I mean come the FRICK on
  • Most of F-Zero GX’s OST as a whole
  • Some TMS music, we got a spirit but no music, that’s ****ed
  • Shambhala. Yes. Dubstep in Smash. You’re welcome
  • Aqua Road
  • Hi-Spec Robo Go!
  • Life Will Change, it was in Joker’s trailer but not the game proper, what’s up with that
I still can’t believe they never added Life Will Change from Persona 5 even though they used it for Joker’s trailer. I think Pokémon’s music selection is a little underwhelming as well. I’d have loved the RBY and GSC Champion themes as well as other themes like the Deoxys battle. I really wish they would have included a lot more Tropical Freeze music as well as Hyrule Warriors. Finally, even though it was probably a bit late, I would have loved to get some FFVII Remake music along with Sephiroth.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Has anyone ever made a Smash Bros RPG? Using something like RPG Maker?
Keep having the RPG idea, I wouldn't My mind having Smash 6 be an Action RPG similar to KH where you are explore various gaming worlds with crossovers inbetween fighting a huge force spanning over a series of games.

It helps to keep Smash Bros big without downsizing leaving left out without going overboard as trying some new. Keeps those who want a story mode of characters interacting and lore-hungry like me happy.

Basically Subspace but if it was good.
 

ceterisparibus

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Oh, I was going by the developer rather than the genre. As far as the genre goes, you do have a good point but I don’t think it is necessarily a hard rule that only the most iconic character per genre is chosen. I can’t really think of any examples other than Terry that contradict this but you already addressed that. The other examples are first party characters like Min Min and Pyra getting in over more iconic third party options but there is an obvious reason for that, being primarily a Nintendo crossover. Still, I don’t believe it is a wasted effort to support less iconic characters for Smash. If we can generate enough support for the characters we love, it could be enough to overcome the hurdle of lesser sales.
Of course! There's lots of reason for characters to be included, and i don't see how "less recognizable" characters aren't deserving of being included. My point is only directed towards historical importance as an argument for first inclusion in any genres.

Just because a character isn't the absolute oldest possible option in their genre doesn't mean history didn't play a part in their inclusion.

There are a lot of games that didn't start a series but become the turning point that change the way people talk about it, Final Fantasy VII being one.
So given that these games are the "turning point" as a result of attaining mainstream recognition by their own merit, isn't it clear that the former is the key reason for inclusion, rather than historical importance being the sole factor for these kind of things?


I was going to say this. Doom might not be the oldest, that’s Wolfenstein (even though it’s made by the same developer), but Doom has both Legacy for bringing the genre of FPS mainstream and and absurd amount popularity for decades now.
While i do not disagree with Doom's general recognizability, my point has largely been clear that doom's "historical legacy" has always been overly exaggerated as a plus point given the past patterns we've had with the first inclusions from each genre.
Of course, that's not your point - but it's clear that doom is not the most recognizable or iconic FPS in the mainstream. And that goes back to my point that Nintendo has a clear tendency to heavily favor the biggest IPs and the most iconic entries from each genre first.
That does not mean that lesser known titles cannot be included later - far from it. But people automatically assuming the former being the clear frontrunner for a potential FPS rep (and to be honest, the genre is so unknown in japan we might not even see any) is pretty baffling.
Especially when you consider other factors into the mix.

And with Cloud and FF7 having both of those, I don't see why that's used as an example.



It's not whether or not Doom Slayer is playable, it's how much Sakurai values a series legacy and influence. Though in that case, you don't even need Doom to see that, as Sakurai would talk about how much of an influence other series such as those by SNK are and Fatal Fury got in before the much more well-known Tekken series had a playable character.

But still, despite being from the more "recognizable" series, Dragonborn is still a Mii costume, no different from Doom Slayer. Plus, both were in the same pass, so it's not like his series recognition gave him any kind of special treatment over Doom Slayer anyway. Also, again, like I said, Doom Slayer has become a popular pick among the Smash fanbase. Him being a Mii costume would likely increase his popularity even more.
Because 7 is not the "historical legacy" nor the "nintendo connected" entry compared to FF1 (which, you know, would fit your described profile) or anything from 1-6 (released on nintendo consoles). So yea, they went for the most recognizable entry over any other of the factors you mentioned as important.
And tekken isn't even the same subgenre as any SNK 2D fighting game (and even if you view it as the "fighting game genre", take heed they went for Street fighter 2 over all other fighting games. They still went for the most recognizable title in the genre first).

Lastly, even if you're trying to equate skyrim/doom as having the same chance due to their mii status (which is fallacious) well....i never did say either felt likely to begin with. Plus you didn't answer my initial point of of doom being completely irrelevant to japan compared to skyrim. Also assuming that miis can result in a boost in popularity seems pretty flawed too - many miis from smash 4 never saw inclusion in ultimate and its entirely likely as well that Nintendo sees it as sufficient rep for the entries.
 

Wonder Smash

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Because 7 is not the "historical legacy" nor the "nintendo connected" entry compared to FF1 (which, you know, would fit your described profile) or anything from 1-6 (released on nintendo consoles). So yea, they went for the most recognizable entry over any other of the factors you mentioned as important.
And tekken isn't even the same subgenre as any SNK 2D fighting game (and even if you view it as the "fighting game genre", take heed they went for Street fighter 2 over all other fighting games. They still went for the most recognizable title in the genre first).
Except FFVII is historically significant, seeing that it inspired so many other RPGs and you could say popularized the genre. So it does have a historical legacy. And even if Cloud didn't come from the earlier games, the franchise that he comes from still has history on Nintendo consoles, which is where it all started.

Also yes, Tekken and Fatal Fury are both fighting games, It doesn't matter if one is 2D and the other is 3D. However, Tekken is probably about as famous as Street Fighter so according to your logic, it should have been represented first before Fatal Fury. But then again, Street Fighter is historically important too, so...

Lastly, even if you're trying to equate skyrim/doom as having the same chance due to their mii status (which is fallacious) well....i never did say either felt likely to begin with. Plus you didn't answer my initial point of of doom being completely irrelevant to japan compared to skyrim. Also assuming that miis can result in a boost in popularity seems pretty flawed too - many miis from smash 4 never saw inclusion in ultimate and its entirely likely as well that Nintendo sees it as sufficient rep for the entries.
Actually, yes, you did say that Dragonborn is likely. That was your first response to this subject.

You never actually showed that a character with more popularity in Japan is more likely to get in. I don't think Sakurai even mentioned Skyrim's popularity in Japan, so that's just a big guess. Plus,, that seems to be the only thing you're desperately holding on to while downplaying anything that works in Doom's favor. It didn't just popularized FPS, but also online multiplayer gaming. And there's nothing flawed in thinking that a Mii costume will boost support for a character that was already a popular request for Smash. Whether they actually become a playable character is a different story and that's something none of us knows at this point.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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So, if you had to include one more legendary or mythical Pokemon as a Smash character, who would it be?

:ultmewtwo:
 

Dan Quixote

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So, if you had to include one more legendary or mythical Pokemon as a Smash character, who would it be?

:ultmewtwo:
Suicune has been my dark horse pick for another Legendary Pokémon in Smash for a while now. It's a boxart Pokémon so that has to count for something! Plus it's quadrupedal and uses ice magic, so it could be a really cool moveset. I just want more quadrupeds...
 

osby

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So, if you had to include one more legendary or mythical Pokemon as a Smash character, who would it be?

:ultmewtwo:
Deoxys. Another psychic type but it'd play a lot differently, switching between a glass canon, a heavyweight, and a speedy combo character. They can even work as a reverse :ultpyra::ultmythra:, sharing the same specials but using different normal attacks.

Honorable mentions are Keldeo and Meloetta.
 

Laniv

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So, if you had to include one more legendary or mythical Pokemon as a Smash character, who would it be?

:ultmewtwo:
Genesect, easy. Coolest thing to come from Gen V, and that's saying a lot.

The 100% objectively correct answer to this question is Buzzwole

I've said before that while I do like Incineroar, if I had to pick a Gen VII Pokemon, I'd go for Buzzwole.
 

PeridotGX

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So, if you had to include one more legendary or mythical Pokemon as a Smash character, who would it be?

:ultmewtwo:
There are a lot of legendaries I think would be be neat. Calyrex, Genesect, Hoopa, Regigigas, the list goes on. But if I had to add one... Deoxys. There's just so much potential there.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Moving on to the next topic, am I the only one who doesn't get how people only get into new franchises because of Smash Bros? When people say got into xyz due to Smasj


If I want to get into new franchises myself, I would get into them. I wouldn't for a whole Smash game or wait for a character to get into Smash because of it?
 

AlRex

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Moving on to the next topic, am I the only one who doesn't get how people only get into new franchises because of Smash Bros? When people say got into xyz due to Smasj


If I want to get into new franchises myself, I would get into them. I wouldn't for a whole Smash game or wait for a character to get into Smash because of it?
I mean, if you’re not previously aware of it, or didn’t know that much beforehand, I can kind of get it.
 

KneeOfJustice99

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I honestly wouldn't have a problem with this. Except for one thing - it would be nice for the Persona series as a whole to be represented as opposed to just P5. (I threw this together with .PNGs in PowerPoint lmao)

1637793703367.png


Though, that does raise an interesting question - what sort of symbol would represent the Persona series as a whole? For SMT, you could either use the pentagram or even just an icon of Jack Frost's face, but Persona raises intrigue because the few things that theoretically would make sense (for example, the butterfly-like mask worn by Philemon in Persona 2,) aren't exactly relevant in the series anymore. Weird thing to think about.

Also, it's so bizarre to think that it's possible for the protagonist of Persona 6 to be in the next Smash game. A part of me somewhat wishes we could get other picks (Jack Frost, Aigis and Demi-Fiend spring to mind, though I'd also love to see Yu) but it's amazing to think that that could be where the series is at by then.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Um… swearing in that pic? Also, what’s the context?
 

Nabbitfan730

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Why is Mario, Pokémon and FE especially and Earthbound are so low. All 3 at least should be on top.
 

Megadoomer

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Any of these worth playing or have a chance for a character in the next Smash (not ignoring games that are already represented maybe a different character etc)
I'd like to think that Dante has a chance of making it into the next Smash, but even if he doesn't, I'd argue that the Switch version of Devil May Cry 3 is the definitive/best version of one of the best action games out there, so $10 or $12 seems like a steal. (Capcom has a sale going on that's separate from this)
 
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dream1ng

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View attachment 338731
Did a thing. Decided to rank the series in Smash Ultimate with a Playable Fighter on how well they were represented. Also if anyone could inform me on how to spoiler mark images please tell me.
This ranking seems pretty random. Every tier other than maybe the first has a third-party series where the representation skews heavily to only one or a few handful of titles, and yet they're strewn across the tiers. Pac-Man is second tier but SF is bottom tier? Huh?

Also good luck with people agreeing Zelda is one of the top three best represented series in the game.
 

Rie Sonomura

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View attachment 338731
Did a thing. Decided to rank the series in Smash Ultimate with a Playable Fighter on how well they were represented. Also if anyone could inform me on how to spoiler mark images please tell me.
I mean, I def agree that Splatoon was screwed in terms of overall representation. Big bias toward the first game overall, few 2 songs, Octo Expansion only gets two spirits 😭
 
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