Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ZelDan]

Giygas or Porky would be pretty swag though. Still wack Porky got nothing in Ultimate. Not even a boss fight.

I wouldn't be against getting Porky as long as we get "Pokey means business" in Smash.

 

[Slime Scholar]

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...-50percent-off-top-switch-games-north-america

Any of these worth playing or have a chance for a character in the next Smash (not ignoring games that are already represented maybe a different character etc)

Travis Strikes Again is worth playing if you like Suda weirdness AND have someone to play it with. Game is jank, but co-op is a "get-out-of-no-fun free card." Single player is clearly not the way to experience it.

And I legitimately believe Travis has a chance for the next game. Not going to elaborate on this, but Suda has Sakurai in checkmate.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Any of these worth playing or have a chance for a character in the next Smash

Finally.....
Gandhi and Spider-Man in Smash!!!!

 

[ZelDan]

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...-50percent-off-top-switch-games-north-america

Any of these worth playing or have a chance for a character in the next Smash (not ignoring games that are already represented maybe a different character etc)

In terms of being worth playing, the games I'd definitely recommend and I think are some of the best listed are:

Super Mario Odyssey
Castlevania Advance Collection
Cuphead
Hades
The Messenger
Shovel Knight Treasure Trove

In terms of getting a playable character in Smash, uhhhh:

Monster Hunter
Kirby
DOOM
Sonic
Astral Chain
No More Heroes
Shovel Knight
Shantae

 

[ceterisparibus]

Except FFVII is historically significant, seeing that it inspired so many other RPGs and you could say popularized the genre. So it does have a historical legacy. And even if Cloud didn't come from the earlier games, the franchise that he comes from still has history on Nintendo consoles, which is where it all started.

Also yes, Tekken and Fatal Fury are both fighting games, It doesn't matter if one is 2D and the other is 3D. However, Tekken is probably about as famous as Street Fighter so according to your logic, it should have been represented first before Fatal Fury. But then again, Street Fighter is historically important too, so...

At this point of time i think you're just ignoring what i said, so i'll re-emphasize.
The likes of FF7 and SF2 are "historically popular" because their mainstream appeal is the largest compared to many other titles in their genre. It's because of the former that the latter even became a thing, so trying to say that historical precedence is key is missing the point altogether. And FF7's inclusion did not contain a trace of any pre-7 content, so pretending that the "nintendo connection" is important is dodging the point altogether.

And if you want to try to ignore that my initial point was always about the first inclusion for every genre i'll re-state it here again so you can read it.
The comparisons between tekken/fatal fury does feel as misguided as pretending that Gears of war is the same kind of genre as perfect dark, but a much stronger example compared to your flawed one would be the comparisons between Tekken and Virtua fighter, both 3d fighting games. The former started the genre but the latter is the one with the greater mainstream recognition. Or how persona got in over SMT - 2 very similar titles in the same genre but the more widely known one is included. Or how FF7 got in over DQ first....well the trend has been pretty clear on this by now, shouldn't it?

Also Street fighter 2 is the best selling fighting game of all time (excluding smash). So you might want to check your facts on the street fighter and tekken comparisons. Which still goes back to my original point about them going for the biggest fighting game entry over others.

Actually, yes, you did say that Dragonborn is likely. That was your first response to this subject.

You never actually showed that a character with more popularity in Japan is more likely to get in. I don't think Sakurai even mentioned Skyrim's popularity in Japan, so that's just a big guess.

Context matters - my reply was directed towards the question of which bethesda character was the most likely choice from the specific company.
Not whether a bethesda character was likely at all compared to all the available choices out there. You're not putting me in a contradictory stance here because you can get different answers based on the question being posted.

It's really not that hard to prove that popularity in japan does implicitly play a big role, especially when we haven't gotten any western 3rd parties until ultimate...and 1 of the 2 ranked extremely highly in the ballot while the other was the biggest selling game in history (seeing a trend here now?) with an extremely huge japanese community.
And even the 1st parties which see strong western support but lackluster japanese support (little mac and ridley) had to wait till smash 4 and ultimate respectively before other 1st parties...well you should clearly see the picture by now.

Plus,, that seems to be the only thing you're desperately holding on to while downplaying anything that works in Doom's favor. It didn't just popularized FPS, but also online multiplayer gaming.

I think i've been pretty clear before that Doom is iconic. But if the crux of your argument really does boil down to "popularizing" the genre (like you mentioned, making multiplayer mainstream because it sold a lot) because of its widespread commercial reach and sales, then the historical aspect is moot anyway.
And it's pretty objectively clear that there have been other FPS games that have a bigger mainstream reach (based on that definition of "popularizing") and hence, impact on the gaming scope itself. But i do think that with that argument, you already implicitly agreed that sole historical precedence (like wolfenstein) is not the key factor (and that's the main point i was always driving at).

That is, if we even get a FPS rep in the future. Which doesn't look that great anyway.

And there's nothing flawed in thinking that a Mii costume will boost support for a character that was already a popular request for Smash. Whether they actually become a playable character is a different story and that's something none of us knows at this point.

So are you trying to say that it "boosts" support, but at the same time admitting that it might not?

 

[JOJONumber691]

I mean, I def agree that Splatoon was screwed in terms of overall representation. Big bias toward the first game overall, few 2 songs, Octo Expansion only gets two spirits

Imagine being outdated on arrival. Yup that’s Splatoon’s Content in Smash.

This ranking seems pretty random. Every tier other than maybe the first has a third-party series where the representation skews heavily to only one or a few handful of titles, and yet they're strewn across the tiers. Pac-Man is second tier but SF is bottom tier? Huh?

Also good luck with people agreeing Zelda is one of the top three best represented series in the game.

it was due to what I was counting towards each series. PAC-MAN and Mega Man in Smash are great representations for the entire NAMCO Arcade and Classic Mega Man Series respectively, but Street Fighter literally is only one series with no argument for anything besides Alpha being counted as something separate, which is still within the main story of Street Fighter, unlike X which is 100 Years Later, which then screws over Street Fighter even harder since they also have two characters who need to be updated to get their Playstyle into Smash better, one of the worst stages in the game, and easily the worst Music Selection in Smash Series History. Why? Because, both Street Fighter II OSTs were brought in instead of a mix of the two and some music from Alpha at least since that was also decently successful before III. But nope! Why not both who cares about repetition anyways?!??!!??!! Yeah, if you can’t tell I hate Street Fighter’s Content in Smash to a Stupid Extent, but that’s just how it feels after both Fatal Fury and Tekken got contenders for the best, and Fatal Fury being in the Top 3. Hey, at least that WoL Arcade Mode was Fire and Ryu and Ken aren’t the worst designed characters, but having a contender for Worst Stage and Worst Music easily is a really low bar especially in comparison to Fatal Fury and Tekken.

 

[Yamat08]

I mean, I def agree that Splatoon was screwed in terms of overall representation. Big bias toward the first game overall, few 2 songs, Octo Expansion only gets two spirits

And said Spirits likely only got in because they had compatible Amiibos. Still, I'm willing to give the benefit of a doubt and assume that Octo Expansion was considered too late to make a significant impact in base Ultimate, much like ARMS and Xenoblade2 pre-DLC (hell, Octo Expansion was released in the same year as Ultimate).

 

[Geno Boost]

So, if you had to include one more legendary or mythical Pokemon as a Smash character, who would it be?

There are so many good picks Deoxys and Diancie and Magearna and Suicune and Regigigas and Genesect
It’s hard to choose but I would love to play as Diancie personally

 

[Rie Sonomura]

And said Spirits likely only got in because they had compatible Amiibos. Still, I'm willing to give the benefit of a doubt and assume that Octo Expansion was considered too late to make a significant impact in base Ultimate, much like ARMS and Xenoblade2 pre-DLC (hell, Octo Expansion was released in the same year as Ultimate).

They should have at LEAST given us Fly Octo Fly ~ Ebb & Flow (Octo) as a music track

 

[JOJONumber691]

Or put the Splatoon 2 Outfits on the Inklings instead of the Mii’s.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

This may be a bit topic but I want to say to everyone here who do celebrate it a Happy Thanksgiving!

You guys have any plans today? The food you're serving?

 

[Guynamednelson]

This may be a bit topic but I want to say to everyone here who do celebrate it a Happy Thanksgiving!

You guys have any plans today? The food you're serving?

Unfortunately I can only celebrate Thanksgiving with my mom and my grandmother who's a pain in the whole entire body, not just the ass, due to not being able to get a turkey until the last minute.

 

[Perkilator]

This may be a bit topic but I want to say to everyone here who do celebrate it a Happy Thanksgiving!

You guys have any plans today? The food you're serving?

I'm mostly staying home but my uncle is coming over. We've got the traditional Thanksgiving fares but my stepmom actually made her pumpkin pies with real pumpkins!

 

[Sucumbio]

This may be a bit topic but I want to say to everyone here who do celebrate it a Happy Thanksgiving!

You guys have any plans today? The food you're serving?

Just me and the wife this year. Enough food to feed us for a week lol.

 

[dream1ng]

And I legitimately believe Travis has a chance for the next game. Not going to elaborate on this, but Suda has Sakurai in checkmate.

What, does he have compromising pictures of Sakurai? Sleeping on the job or sucking the blood from one of his victims?

I think Travis having a chance for next game is contingent upon the series continuing, and Suda has intimated that it isn't. Didn't he?

it was due to what I was counting towards each series. PAC-MAN and Mega Man in Smash are great representations for the entire NAMCO Arcade and Classic Mega Man Series respectively, but Street Fighter literally is only one series with no argument for anything besides Alpha being counted as something separate, which is still within the main story of Street Fighter, unlike X which is 100 Years Later, which then screws over Street Fighter even harder since they also have two characters who need to be updated to get their Playstyle into Smash better, one of the worst stages in the game, and easily the worst Music Selection in Smash Series History. Why? Because, both Street Fighter II OSTs were brought in instead of a mix of the two and some music from Alpha at least since that was also decently successful before III. But nope! Why not both who cares about repetition anyways?!??!!??!! Yeah, if you can’t tell I hate Street Fighter’s Content in Smash to a Stupid Extent, but that’s just how it feels after both Fatal Fury and Tekken got contenders for the best, and Fatal Fury being in the Top 3. Hey, at least that WoL Arcade Mode was Fire and Ryu and Ken aren’t the worst designed characters, but having a contender for Worst Stage and Worst Music easily is a really low bar especially in comparison to Fatal Fury and Tekken.

Well now you're just judging different series on different qualities. How well does Mega Man represent one fraction of the series umbrella, how well does Pac-Man represent other Namco series, how well does Street Fighter represent its series holistically? These are all different criteria, and if you're evaluating inconsistent aspects on a series by series basis, the tier list could really take any shape whatsoever; there's no real order to it.

If you're going to compare things, it should be on the same bases as each other.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thanksgiving party at our house this year~

It ain't Falco, but.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Nice answers. To add on to those questions as this is the most important question?

What can you say that you are thankful for?

 

[JOJONumber691]

What, does he have compromising pictures of Sakurai? Sleeping on the job or sucking the blood from one of his victims?

I think Travis having a chance for next game is contingent upon the series continuing, and Suda has intimated that it isn't. Didn't he?


Well now you're just judging different series on different qualities. How well does Mega Man represent one fraction of the series umbrella, how well does Pac-Man represent other Namco series, how well does Street Fighter represent its series holistically? These are all different criteria, and if you're evaluating inconsistent aspects on a series by series basis, the tier list could really take any shape whatsoever; there's no real order to it.

If you're going to compare things, it should be on the same bases as each other.

Well, it’s based on what Smash Deems as their series. Mega Man as a whole is far harder to represent than Street Fighter as a whole. Street Fighter as a whole is far easier to represent than something like Mega Man, which if given a separate Challenger Pack, would have a good chance to be counted as a separate series. In comparison to Street Fighter, which is 7 Games with different versions all within a space of time that allows Characters to still appear between entries but without having to find some loop hole to pull that off. Also NAMCO Refuses to acknowledge PAC-MAN World, but I think that since PAC-MAN here was counted as just general NAMCO Arcade in General, I need to count it as such. Same applies to FFVII and Final Fantasy as a whole.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Hey, do you guys predict when Smash 6 will be released?
I predict that Smash 6 comes out in November 2025.

 

[Perkilator]

Nice answers. To add on to those questions as this is the most important question?

What can you say that you are thankful for?

In the grand scheme of things, I'm thankful for the family I have who's still around for Thanksgiving.

In context to Smash, I'm thankful for Sora, despite being a bit underwhelmed with the music selection.

 

[Lamperouge]

Hey, do you guys predict when Smash 6 will be released?
I predict that Smash 6 comes out in November 2025.

Tomorrow.

Surprise!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey, do you guys predict when Smash 6 will be released?
I predict that Smash 6 comes out in November 2025.

Gonna try to be realistic, probably within the December of the year after the Switch’s successor comes out

holiday releases are almost always massive successes

 

[Slime Scholar]

What, does he have compromising pictures of Sakurai? Sleeping on the job or sucking the blood from one of his victims?

I think Travis having a chance for next game is contingent upon the series continuing, and Suda has intimated that it isn't. Didn't he?

No, I don't literally mean that Suda has Sakurai in checkmate. That was a joke and, I thought, obvious hyperbole. And people taking hyperbolic statements seriously makes me want to drive into a river (Note: it does not. That statement was also hyperbole).

I was referencing something that happens in No More Heroes 3.

Spoiler: serious spoilers, read at your own risk

The final boss of NMH3 is a Smash Bros reference.

What's more is that Sakurai, who is friends with Suda, played the game and loved the joke.

Travis could very easily never get in, I'm not really expecting him to, but Suda put the ball in Sakurai's court in basically the funniest way possible.

 

[Yamat08]

I just remembered another thing to consider about Octo Expansion, and Splatoon2 for that matter, lacking in Ultimate: Breath of the Wild was initially being developed as a WiiU exclusive. With development being that far along, it's not surprisingly that BotW is able to have as much content in Smash as it does (to the point of Link being completely overhauled). I'm not too familiar with Super Mario Odyssey's development, but I'd imagine that it had a pretty lengthy history as well, given that it was the first major 3D Mario title since Galaxy2. In contrast, I don't think Splatoon2 was even being worked on until Splatoon proved to be a success, with Splatoon itself being released close to the end of the WiiU's lifespan (in fact, the story of Splatoon2 was directly effected by the results of the final Splatfest, in 2016). Of course, they might've been planning to re-release Splatoon anyway, given the abundance of WiiU games ported to the Switch, so if such were the case, I wonder if the decision to make it a sequel instead of a port didn't come until a bit later. At any rate, I doubt that it was some big budget release with a development time spanning across several years like Breath of the Wild.

 

[Trevenant]

Outside of music and to a much lesser extent, spirits, most series were lacking true brand new content in Ultimate TBH excluding DLC. Obviously we weren't gonna get much since they were much more focused on bringing everyone back, which, while not inherently a bad thing, is still the reason that Ultimate only got 2 stages that weren't attached to completely remote series beforehand. Gen 7 not getting a stage isn't as surprising when you consider the workload they already had + BoTW being more impactful to Zelda and Mario having a new major game and being Mr Video Game and all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This may be a bit topic but I want to say to everyone here who do celebrate it a Happy Thanksgiving!

You guys have any plans today?

We had the fam over. We played some Fibbage. And I played a bunch of MarKart8 with the nieces.

What can you say that you are thankful for?

I got Cyberpunk and Deathloop for half prince on Steam!

 

[Nabbitfan730]

We had the fam over. We played some Fibbage. And I played a bunch of MarKart8 with the nieces.

I got Cyberpunk and Deathloop for half prince on Steam!

I'm mostly staying home but my uncle is coming over. We've got the traditional Thanksgiving fares but my stepmom actually made her pumpkin pies with real pumpkins!

Wait, Pumpkin Pies aren't made with real pumpkins?

Just me and the wife this year. Enough food to feed us for a week lol.

Looks like you guys got a fun Thanksgiving. Nice.

Lots of food and gifts. Hope you guys are enjoying it

 

[Wonder Smash]

At this point of time i think you're just ignoring what i said, so i'll re-emphasize.
The likes of FF7 and SF2 are "historically popular" because their mainstream appeal is the largest compared to many other titles in their genre. It's because of the former that the latter even became a thing, so trying to say that historical precedence is key is missing the point altogether. And FF7's inclusion did not contain a trace of any pre-7 content, so pretending that the "nintendo connection" is important is dodging the point altogether.

And if you want to try to ignore that my initial point was always about the first inclusion for every genre i'll re-state it here again so you can read it.
The comparisons between tekken/fatal fury does feel as misguided as pretending that Gears of war is the same kind of genre as perfect dark, but a much stronger example compared to your flawed one would be the comparisons between Tekken and Virtua fighter, both 3d fighting games. The former started the genre but the latter is the one with the greater mainstream recognition. Or how persona got in over SMT - 2 very similar titles in the same genre but the more widely known one is included. Or how FF7 got in over DQ first....well the trend has been pretty clear on this by now, shouldn't it?

Also Street fighter 2 is the best selling fighting game of all time (excluding smash). So you might want to check your facts on the street fighter and tekken comparisons. Which still goes back to my original point about them going for the biggest fighting game entry over others.

To be honest, your "point" is not really clear. You're talking as if mainstream appeal is more important than historical significance, yet your examples are games or series that has both of those things. It's also completely pointless to bring up whether or not a character comes from the first entry of a series, No matter what you say, Cloud is part of a series that is also a pioneer in its genre just like DQ and FFVII's impact just adds to the legacy of an already long running franchise.

As for the Tekken and Fatal Fury comparison, it's not a flawed one. Maybe if I was comparing Tekken to Arms, you'd have a point. But these are two traditional fighting game series. Therefore, the comparison is valid.

Also, Street Fighter II selling more doesn't change how famous Tekken is and that it's definitely right up there with Street Fighter. Tekken also has plenty of games that sold great too.

Context matters - my reply was directed towards the question of which bethesda character was the most likely choice from the specific company.
Not whether a bethesda character was likely at all compared to all the available choices out there. You're not putting me in a contradictory stance here because you can get different answers based on the question being posted.

That was literally the question that you answered; somebody said that they think a Bethesda character was likely in the next game and they asked which one. You said it's going to be Dragonborn. You never said anything about the likelihood of a Bethesda character at all.

It's really not that hard to prove that popularity in japan does implicitly play a big role, especially when we haven't gotten any western 3rd parties until ultimate...and 1 of the 2 ranked extremely highly in the ballot while the other was the biggest selling game in history (seeing a trend here now?) with an extremely huge japanese community.
And even the 1st parties which see strong western support but lackluster japanese support (little mac and ridley) had to wait till smash 4 and ultimate respectively before other 1st parties...well you should clearly see the picture by now.

This is once again all just a big guess. I can't really speak for Ridley (though the lack of any Japanese support is dubious) but in the case of Little Mac, you forget that he became a playable character not long after his latest appearance in the Wii Punch-Out game was released. Therefore, it's far more likely that that played a part in him becoming a playable character in Smash and not because Nintendo waited for him to have enough Japanese support.

Also, have you ever considered that maybe negotiations between a Japanese company and a Western company is not that easy and that's why there's not a lot of western characters in Smash?

I think i've been pretty clear before that Doom is iconic. But if the crux of your argument really does boil down to "popularizing" the genre (like you mentioned, making multiplayer mainstream because it sold a lot) because of its widespread commercial reach and sales, then the historical aspect is moot anyway.
And it's pretty objectively clear that there have been other FPS games that have a bigger mainstream reach (based on that definition of "popularizing") and hence, impact on the gaming scope itself. But i do think that with that argument, you already implicitly agreed that sole historical precedence (like wolfenstein) is not the key factor (and that's the main point i was always driving at).

That is, if we even get a FPS rep in the future. Which doesn't look that great anyway.

Whether there's "bigger" FPS games or not, DOOM is still one of those big names in that genre. Even you admit that it's an iconic series for obvious reasons and it's those reasons is why you can't just ignore its chances for Smash.

Overall, you're acting like Dragonborn is more likely simply because of his series popularity in Japan (something Sakurai didn't even mention) as opposed to Doom Slayer being more likely because his series defined a highly popular genre (something Sakurai did mention).

So are you trying to say that it "boosts" support, but at the same time admitting that it might not?

What? Where did you get the "might not" part from? I straight up said that being a Mii costume might boost support for him and that's all I said.

 

[PeridotGX]

Nobody's posted in over 12 hours. I knew things were going to be desolate around here, but wow.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Any of these worth playing

Okami and Ace Attorney. Get them. This is an order

 

[Guynamednelson]

Nobody's posted in over 12 hours. I knew things were going to be desolate around here, but wow.

To be fair people could've been visiting their families.

 

[Gengar84]

To be fair people could've been visiting their families.

Yeah, that’s pretty much what I assumed as well. I don’t post a lot myself because I’m working from 7-3:30 every weekday (thankfully from home but still).

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Yeah, that’s pretty much what I assumed as well. I don’t post a lot myself because I’m working from 7-3:30 every weekday (thankfully from home but still).

Sorry to break all of you, but I'm European and I don't celebrate Thanksgiving.

 

[Gengar84]

Sorry to break all of you, but I'm European and I don't celebrate Thanksgiving.

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to suggest that everyone celebrated Thanksgiving but it is the only reason I could think f for the lack of activity here.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to suggest that everyone celebrated Thanksgiving but it is the only reason I could think f for the lack of activity here.

Okay, I understand what you're saying,

 

[Gengar84]

I was wondering, since character support threads aren’t a thing at the moment, would this thread be a good place to share some basic movesets and ideas for our favorite characters? I came up with a few that I’m pretty happy with that I’d love to share at some point if anyone is interested. I figured it might be a good way to try to start building some support or at the very least show people the potential of some characters that don’t get much discussion otherwise.

 

[ForsakenM]

No, I don't literally mean that Suda has Sakurai in checkmate. That was a joke and, I thought, obvious hyperbole. And people taking hyperbolic statements seriously makes me want to drive into a river (Note: it does not. That statement was also hyperbole).

I was referencing something that happens in No More Heroes 3.

Spoiler: serious spoilers, read at your own risk

The final boss of NMH3 is a Smash Bros reference.

What's more is that Sakurai, who is friends with Suda, played the game and loved the joke.

Travis could very easily never get in, I'm not really expecting him to, but Suda put the ball in Sakurai's court in basically the funniest way possible.

I was making a big post about all the characters I think have a big chance, and Travis is #5 on y 3rd Party list. People are sleeping on him hard, he's setup to be the next Solid Snake.

 

[Gengar84]

I was making a big post about all the characters I think have a big chance, and Travis is #5 on y 3rd Party list. People are sleeping on him hard, he's setup to be the next Solid Snake.

Yeah, normally I’d argue that Travis isn’t really mainstream enough to beat out other third party options but I agree that Suda’s relationship with Sakurai gives him a solid chance. I think it mostly comes down to whether Sakurai or Nintendo is in charge of deciding newcomers.

 

[Will]

I don't think Travis is necessarily "slept on". I mean, not anymore. Back before TSA I'd say he was a product of his time that people were still wanting, similar to someone like Isaac from Golden Sun before they just stopped making those games. Nowadays I'd say Travis is now a fairly requested character due to the series (and Suda51's director role) revival. And rightfully so, we just have to hope he makes it in next game.

 

[Perkilator]

I was wondering, since character support threads aren’t a thing at the moment, would this thread be a good place to share some basic movesets and ideas for our favorite characters? I came up with a few that I’m pretty happy with that I’d love to share at some point if anyone is interested. I figured it might be a good way to try to start building some support or at the very least show people the potential of some characters that don’t get much discussion otherwise.

Sure thing! Here are a few that I made:

• Meowth
• Scizor
• Ayumi Tachibana
• Alph
• Snivy
• Azura
• Crash
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Dr. Eggman