Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NintenZ]

I guess I'd go with this, this is a mix of predictions and personal bias:

1. Noah (And maybe Mio)
2. Waluigi
3. Bandana Dee
4. Lyndis
5. Zoroark
6. Legionis
7. Pauline
8. Chun-Li
9. Kasumi/Hayabusa
10. Chrono
11. Yuri Lowell
12. 2B
13. Sol Badguy
14. Jonesy
15. Monokuma
16. Alucard
17. Rayman
18. Ezio

This is not counting Echo Fighters, for those how about...

09E. Gooigi
36E. Dixie Kong
38E. Shadow
57E. Klaus
61E. Zack Fair
63E. Jeanne
64E. Octoling
71E. Violet

That's all for now I did kinda go ham on this lmao.

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s my 18:

1. Waluigi
2. Paper Mario
3. Raven Beak
4. Bandana Waddle Dee
5. The new Pokémon character
6. The new Fire Emblem character
7. Noah & Mio
8. Ring Fit Trainee
9. Ayumi Tachibana
10. Dr. Eggman
11. Zero
12. Crash Bandicoot
13. 2B
14. Rayman
15. Nakoruru
16. Estelle Bright
17. Dragonborn
18. Yuri Lowell

Not part of the list, but I figured I would do Echo Fighters as well.

• 11ε. Black Shadow
• 36ε. Dixie Kong
• 38ε. Shadow
• 40ε. Alph
• 56ε. Celica
• 57ε. Malos
• 64ε. Octoling
• 76ε. Ninjara
• 82ε. Riku

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not part of the list, but I figured I would do Echo Fighters as well.

10e. Ninten [Ness]
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
16e. Impa [Sheik]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
35e. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]
36e. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
61e. Zack [Cloud]
63e. Jeanne [Bayonetta]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]
82e. Roxas [Kingdom Hearts]

And while we're at it, Bosses!

Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]

 

[PeridotGX]

me clicking on "X quoted your post in the thread Next Smash Speculation Discussion" knowing that it's someone posting their list of 18 but still desperately hoping it's someone discussing the characters i put forward in that original post.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I wish there were bosses that aren't villains nor anti-heroes.

 

[Troykv]

I wish there were bosses that aren't villains nor anti-heroes.

What do you have in mind Hyper?

 

[Gengar84]

I wish there were bosses that aren't villains nor anti-heroes.

I don’t think Rayquaza really qualifies as a villain or antihero. I’m not sure about Rathalos but it was part of the hero’s team in Monster Hunter Stories so it was good in those games.

 

[chocolatejr9]

me clicking on "X quoted your post in the thread Next Smash Speculation Discussion" knowing that it's someone posting their list of 18 but still desperately hoping it's someone discussing the characters i put forward in that original post.
View attachment 368553

You get used to it after awhile.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

BTW, I'm also throwing some new stages as well a couple of returning ones
3DS Rainbow Road
Pac Maze
Death Egg
E.M.M.I Zone
Any Pokemon areas from Gen 8 or 9
Erythia Sea
Rhythm Heaven stage that changes
The Pit
The Courtroom
N. Sanity Beach
Glade of Dreams
UAC Facility
Molentary Express
Hakurei Shrine

I wanna get in on this stages thing.

3DS Rainbow Road
3DS Pacmaze
Gameboy (kinda like Dreamland GB but with a random assortment of Gameboy games, with some section focusing on Mario Land, another part tetris and a third part Pokemon)
Golden sun stage
Area Zero
An SRW battleship
Space colony Ark
Millenium Tower
Courtroom
Ken's Stage from Street fighter alpha 2 (The one that's a boat with a party happening in the background where other Capcom characters are just partying in fancy outfits)
N Sanity beach
The Digital world


If anyone finds it weird that i'm shilling for a series that only started getting proper English localizations 25 years into it's existence to show up in Smash bros, i just think it'd be cool if Smash included a series from Bandai Namco's big crossover multiverse that's been a thing since the Famicom days but we've only gotten small glimpses of in other regions over the years.

 

[Perkilator]

We're talking about stages again? Yay! Time to shill again!

• Bowser’s Castle
• Waluigi Pinball
• Coconut Mall
• 25m
• Gang-Plank Galleon
• Golden Temple
• Grassland Grove
• Yoshi's New Island
• Rainbow Route
• Quilty Square
• Clash at Castle Dedede
• Sprout Tower
• Melemele Island
• Condor's Peak
• Temple of Mila
• Opera House
• Golden Pyramid
• Gyromite
• Inkopolis Square
• Egg Planet Park
• Game Boy
• Steel Diver

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

me clicking on "X quoted your post in the thread Next Smash Speculation Discussion" knowing that it's someone posting their list of 18 but still desperately hoping it's someone discussing the characters i put forward in that original post.
View attachment 368553

I'm terribly sorry for being part of this problem. If there's anything I should comment on, let me know.

 

[HyperSomari64]

What do you have in mind Hyper?

For non-evil bosses:

• Gouken (Think Sheng Long's EGM joke but officially made a reality)
• Doshin the Giant (Yes, this may be a recurring theme)
• The four leaders from Gamindustri (My biased a** prefers them as playable, but having them as bosses would be cool. And not in their Dark CPUs forms; just human, HDD and NEXT forms) [inb4 "why do you call a groomer (Vert) not evil!?]
• Bubsy (a joke boss)

Are you happy now?

 

[smashkirby]

me clicking on "X quoted your post in the thread Next Smash Speculation Discussion" knowing that it's someone posting their list of 18 but still desperately hoping it's someone discussing the characters i put forward in that original post.
View attachment 368553

Sorry about that. Lord knows that I know how that feels...

Could I see your list again?

• Doshin the Giant (Yes, this may be a recurring theme)

What about Jashin the Giant?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wish there were bosses that aren't villains nor anti-heroes.

Rayquaza and Rathalos aren't really evil.

Rayquaza is a largely benevolent deity while Rathalos is just an animal.

 

[smashkirby]

3. The Satellaview mascots
4. Virtual Boy

Talk about a deep cut! Out of curiosity, how are you tackling this? Like, for the Satellaview mascots, are you referring to Parebo and Satebo or the Satellaview boy and girl avatars?

As for Virtual Boy, do you mean an ACTUAL Virtual Boy or Harry from Teleroboxer?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Talk about a deep cut! Out of curiosity, how are you tackling this? Like, for the Satellaview mascots, are you referring to Parebo and Satebo or the Satellaview boy and girl avatars?

As for Virtual Boy, do you mean an ACTUAL Virtual Boy or Harry from Teleroboxer?

The Virtual Boy. Like in the commercial where it walks.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Rayquaza and Rathalos aren't really evil.

Rayquaza is a largely benevolent deity while Rathalos is just an animal.

Although Rayquaza DID attempt to murder a child once.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Although Rayquaza DID attempt to murder a child once.

Noncanon source aside...

Zinnia isn't a child. She's old enough that she has had children.

 

[fogbadge]

Although Rayquaza DID attempt to murder a child once.

she had it coming

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'll try the 18 characters thing (Not in order of likelihood)
FIRST PARTY
1. ISAAC
2, Officer Howard
3. Bandana Dee
4. Andy
5. Saki Amimaya
6. Dixie Kong
7. Ring Fit Adventurer
8. Waluigi
9. Noah/Mio
10. Daruk (or any other new Zelda character)
11. Rhythm Heaven Character
12. Chibi-Robo
13. Ravenbeak/Sylux
14. NES character- I'm feeling Mach Rider and Takamaru here.
15. Gen 10 Pokémon
16. King Boo
17. Krystal/Slippy Toad
18. Warioware character

Third Party
1.Rayman
2. Bomberman
3. Doomslayer
4. Indie character: I'm vouching for Quote and Shovel Knight the most =)
5. Professor Layton
6. Ryu Hayabusa
7. Tails/Doctor Eggman
8. Crash Bandicoot
9. Lloyd Irving
10. Lara Croft
11. Scorpion/Sub-Zero
12. Ezio
13. Master-Chief
14. Dante
15. Travis Touchdown
16. Agumon
17. Red (Angry Birds)
18. 2B
Would've added Sol Badguy and Kiryu if I had space =(

In terms of echoes-
Shadow - Sonic
Octolings - Inkling
Funky Kong - Donkey Kong
Black Shadow - Captain Falcon
Impa (Age of Calamity version) - Sheik
Tom Nook - Isabelle
Protoman - Megaman
Ninjara - Min Min
Black Knight - Ike
Ninten - Ness
Jeanne - Bayonetta
Zack - Cloud
Roxas - Sora

Felix if Isaac ever happens

 

[fogbadge]

Why are we all listing 18 newcomers again?

1: Toad
2: Toadette
3: Chibi-Robo
4: Rex
5: Noah
6: Tails
7: Layton
8: Nate Adams
9: Phoenix Wright
10: Dachsbun
11: Kilik
12: Howard
13: Impa
14: Ring Fit Adventurer
15: King Boo
16: Riku
17: Agumon
18: Euden

 

[Gengar84]

I was just wondering something. Do you think that fighting games are the only genre where we could likely see a villain or popular side character make it in before the main protagonist? It at least seems like that’s the case so far. We did get Min Min over Spring Man and I see a lot more support for Scorpion and Nightmare compared to Liu Kang and Kilik. Heihachi seemed to be the original consideration before Jin and we ended up with Kazuya, who while he was the main character at one point, hasn’t been for a while. Killer Instinct doesn’t really see a ton of support from Smash fans but Fulgore seems to be a more popular request than Jago from what little I’ve seen.

I can think of a few other potential examples from other genres where we could get a villain first like Arthas and Diablo but I feel like they might be the exception. You could also make an argument that Pyra and Mythra are another example of getting someone other than the main character but I personally view them as co-protagonists with Rex.

 

[PeridotGX]

I was just wondering something. Do you think that fighting games are the only genre where we could likely see a villain or popular side character make it in before the main protagonist? It at least seems like that’s the case so far. We did get Min Min over Spring Man and I see a lot more support for Scorpion and Nightmare compared to Liu Kang and Kilik. Heihachi seemed to be the original consideration before Jin and we ended up with Kazuya, who while he was the main character at one point, hasn’t been for a while. Killer Instinct doesn’t really see a ton of support from Smash fans but Fulgore seems to be a more popular request than Jago from what little I’ve seen.

I can think of a few other potential examples from other genres where we could get a villain first like Arthas and Diablo but I feel like they might be the exception. You could also make an argument that Pyra and Mythra are another example of getting someone other than the main character but I personally view them as co-protagonists with Rex.

There's a chance this happens for Undertale/Deltarune, because I can see them deciding to go with a side character over Frisk/Kris and that leads to an "antagonist" almost by default. Ralsei and Noelle are the only major NPCs in either game that haven't fought the player, and there's still time for that to change. Everyone else fills an antagonistic role, at least temporarily or in one route. Obviously Flowey, Spamton, Susie, and Papyrus aren't villains at the same level (and the latter two barely count), but they fit the bill to some degree.

EDIT: I missed the "or side character" bit. That doesn't really change much, but it re-opens the door to those other characters I mentioned, as well as technically Gaster?

 

[Garteam]

I was just wondering something. Do you think that fighting games are the only genre where we could see a villain or popular side character make it in before the main protagonist? We did get Min Min over Spring Man and I see a lot more support for Scorpion and Nightmare compared to Liu Kang and Kilik. Heihachi seemed to be the original consideration before Jin and we ended up with Kazuya, who while he was the main character at one point, hasn’t been for a while. Killer Instinct doesn’t really see a ton of support from Smash fans but Fulgore seems to be a more popular request than Jago from what little I’ve seen. I can think of a few other potential examples from other genres where we could get a villain first like Arthas and Diablo but I feel like they might be the exception.

I think there's room for a non-protagonist from entries in series that aren't fighting games if it is easier to make a unique moveset for them than the protagonist or the protagonist's moveset would be based around a gimmick that isn't tenable to translate to Smash. The former is the reason that Robin was chosen over Chrom in Smash 4 and Pythra was chosen over Rex in Ultimate.

In terms of series where a supporting character seems to have more support over the protagonist, Mega Man X is the only one that I can think of off the top of my head (even then, that's a subseries). People seem to be more on board with Zero than X right now, with many arguing that Zero is the more popular character and would be more unique than X relative to Mega Man. X is still the protagonist, he's the only playable protagonist in the most popular game in the series, and he'd likely be more than Zero relative to the rest of the roster though, so you can argue for either's inclusion.

Spoiler

Of course, you could just include both

 

[Gengar84]

I think there's room for a non-protagonist from entries in series that aren't fighting games if it is easier to make a unique moveset for them than the protagonist or the protagonist's moveset would be based around a gimmick that isn't tenable to translate to Smash. The former is the reason that Robin was chosen over Chrom in Smash 4 and Pythra was chosen over Rex in Ultimate.

In terms of series where a supporting character seems to have more support over the protagonist, Mega Man X is the only one that I can think of off the top of my head (even then, that's a subseries). People seem to be more on board with Zero than X right now, with many arguing that Zero is the more popular character and would be more unique than X relative to Mega Man. X is still the protagonist, he's the only playable protagonist in the most popular game in the series, and he'd likely be more than Zero relative to the rest of the roster though, so you can argue for either's inclusion.

Spoiler

Of course, you could just include both

I’d love to see with X, Zero, or both in Smash. I really like both characters but I slightly prefer Zero if I had to pick just one. The fact that he’s voiced by Johnny Yong Bosch is another plus since he’s among my favorite voice actors but I’ve really liked Zero since the original game on the SNES.

I think I’m alone in this but I’d love to see Jena Anderson from Astral Chain in Smash if Officer Howard’s moveset proves too difficult to implement. I just love Jena’s design and she would help bring some variety in multiple fronts to the roster.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Awakening has three protagonists, being Chrom, Robin, and Lucina in that order of importance. It's not simply a case of any of them being a supporting character. They actually have their own story. Robin got in because they are still one of the core characters. If neither Lucina nor Robin were actually important, Awakening would've been stuck with Chrom and... maybe a core villain as a choice at best? Or we wouldn't have gotten more than stuff like AT's. Lucina mayyyyyyy have been in just for the sake of an easy Echo at best(and keep in mind despite being one of the protagonists, she was originally a costume).

ARMS is also an oddball in that it doesn't have a protagonist in its story mode, because nobody is designated as a canon story. We only have the past one in Max Brass and that's it. The rest can be one. We might've had a clear one if the Manga wasn't cancelled.

There can be an argument made that Pyra and Mythra are the main characters along with Rex, and as an extension of him overall, they are all one big protagonist set. But either way, we generally don't get a non-protagonist for the first character(unless they're a mascot, like with Pikachu) in a franchise. In Pythra's case, the lack of Rex overall is a unique case of them not having the full protagonist set. We still got that with Awakening(by at least having two of the protagonists). For a fun example, Tekken does have us use a protagonist, he's just been a villain too.

Pikachu remains the only example of where the character was not a protagonist in some way(or part of a group of protagonists), and it's pretty unlikely that'll change. Almost always the mascot also happens to be a protagonist(Mario, Link, Samus, Donkey Kong, etc.)

 

[Gengar84]

Awakening has three protagonists, being Chrom, Robin, and Lucina in that order of importance. It's not simply a case of any of them being a supporting character. They actually have their own story. Robin got in because they are still one of the core characters. If neither Lucina nor Robin were actually important, Awakening would've been stuck with Chrom and... maybe a core villain as a choice at best? Or we wouldn't have gotten more than stuff like AT's. Lucina mayyyyyyy have been in just for the sake of an easy Echo at best(and keep in mind despite being one of the protagonists, she was originally a costume).

ARMS is also an oddball in that it doesn't have a protagonist in its story mode, because nobody is designated as a canon story. We only have the past one in Max Brass and that's it. The rest can be one. We might've had a clear one if the Manga wasn't cancelled.

There can be an argument made that Pyra and Mythra are the main characters along with Rex, and as an extension of him overall, they are all one big protagonist set. But either way, we generally don't get a non-protagonist for the first character(unless they're a mascot, like with Pikachu) in a franchise. In Pythra's case, the lack of Rex overall is a unique case of them not having the full protagonist set. We still got that with Awakening(by at least having two of the protagonists). For a fun example, Tekken does have us use a protagonist, he's just been a villain too.

Pikachu remains the only example of where the character was not a protagonist in some way(or part of a group of protagonists), and it's pretty unlikely that'll change. Almost always the mascot also happens to be a protagonist(Mario, Link, Samus, Donkey Kong, etc.)

I do think I remember Sakurai mentioning that the original plan for a Tekken rep was Heihachi and he ended up going with Kazuya because his moveset worked better in Smash. Had they gone with their original plan, I think he would have been a clear example. Scorpion, Nightmare, and Fulgore also appear to be more popular than the protagonist of their games and probably more likely for Smash. I feel like Diablo is probably the best representative of his series despite being the villain. The same is true for Arthas and Kerrigan. I’m starting to wonder if villains being the more popular choice might be a Western thing as opposed to a Fighting game thing. Nightmare is the only Japanese example that seems obvious for fighting games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I do think I remember Sakurai mentioning that the original plan for a Tekken rep was Heihachi and he ended up going with Kazuya because his moveset worked better in Smash. Had they gone with their original plan, I think he would have been a clear example. Scorpion, Nightmare, and Fulgore also appear to be more popular than the protagonist of their games and probably more likely for Smash. I feel like Diablo is probably the best representative of his series despite being the villain. The same is true for Arthas and Kerrigan.

Funny thing; Scorpion has been a protagonist in canon before(the chosen Champion of the Elder Gods).

Nightmare kind of was if you include Siegfried. But if you're referring to the post versions where it's a possessed Armor more or less, than he's a pure villain. It varies due to being more than one Nightmare. Fulgore would be one of the few who was never good(though the second storyline does have him be Thunder's own brother, but I don't think he actually turned good in the reboot in any story?). Heihachi I don't remember if he was ever a protagonist at one point(villain protagonists can exist, after all. It's not about being a hero, but the story focus).

 

[Gengar84]

Funny thing; Scorpion has been a protagonist in canon before(the chosen Champion of the Elder Gods).

Nightmare kind of was if you include Siegfried. But if you're referring to the post versions where it's a possessed Armor more or less, than he's a pure villain. It varies due to being more than one Nightmare. Fulgore would be one of the few who was never good(though the second storyline does have him be Thunder's own brother, but I don't think he actually turned good in the reboot in any story?). Heihachi I don't remember if he was ever a protagonist at one point(villain protagonists can exist, after all. It's not about being a hero, but the story focus).

That’s true. While I can’t think of a ton of examples in games besides potentially Edelgarde, Velvet Crowe, and Kain, there are a others in anime that I can think of like Light Yagami and Lelouche. Anakin Skywalker would be another example from the Star Wars prequels.

 

[Ivander]

For further context Little Nemo was a old Newspaper comic strip that decades after it's creation was adapted into an anime movie and said anime movie was adapted by Capcom into that NES platformer.

I only know this at all becaus i watched a lot of old Nostalgia critic videos growing up.

NES and Arcade. Yes, there was an Arcade game too.

 

[Gengar84]

If Pyra and Mythra are considered dual protagonists along with Rex, do you think the same holds true for other characters like Mio, Shionne, Yuna, and Princess Garnet? Often times, the story is more focused on their journey than the player character’s. I’ve always considered them to be dual protagonists along with the player character but I’m curious to hear what you think. I personally feel like these characters often have more varied and interesting moveset potential as Smash characters than the player character in those games as well.

 

[Sucumbio]

If Pyra and Mythra are considered dual protagonists along with Rex, do you think the same holds true for other characters like Mio, Shionne, Yuna, and Princess Garnet? Often times, the story is more focused on their journey than the player character’s. I’ve always considered them to be dual protagonists along with the player character but I’m curious to hear what you think. I personally feel like these characters often have more varied and interesting moveset potential as Smash characters than the player character in those games as well.

Yeah Final Fantasy VI is a good example of multiple protags. It harkens back to even LotR where it's Frodo's journey but with 20 subplots that seem very important at the time and all kind of weave together. I think my favorite group is the FFVI cast but story wise the FFXII protags are more compelling. I just have a soft spot for Balthier lol.

 

[osby]

If Pyra and Mythra are considered dual protagonists along with Rex, do you think the same holds true for other characters like Mio, Shionne, Yuna, and Princess Garnet? Often times, the story is more focused on their journey than the player character’s. I’ve always considered them to be dual protagonists along with the player character but I’m curious to hear what you think. I personally feel like these characters often have more varied and interesting moveset potential as Smash characters than the player character in those games as well.

I feel like the term "protagonist" is used somehow loosely in this thread. The protagonist is the character whose actions shape the story the most and whose perspective the narrative spends the most time following. It's not a mere issue of plot relevance.

Pyra, for example, is the deuteragonist of XBC2. She's not a co-protagonist with Rex, as the story doesn't equally focus on her but her actions still push the plot forward (while Rex's decision to follow her still being the main reason why said story exists). Same thing with Shionne or Yuna - their existence is just as important as the main protagonist to the story but there's still a clear narrative hierarchy in terms of who's with who.

Overall, I can think of quite a few examples where deuteragonists are prioritized over protagonists when it comes to crossover games but when developers look at these characters, I don't think they'd mainly consider which side is more interesting. Arguably, said uniqueness can even work against their favor if the main protagonist's simpler moveset would work better when highlighting the most prominent mechanics of their game.

Personally, I found Pyra and Mythra pretty fun and have no qualms about them getting over Rex but it's very much a case-by-case thing.

 

[Batkelley]

That’s true. While I can’t think of a ton of examples in games besides potentially Edelgarde, Velvet Crowe, and Kain, there are a others in anime that I can think of like Light Yagami and Lelouche. Anakin Skywalker would be another example from the Star Wars prequels.

I think some other possibilities could include Pyramid Head, Monokuma, and Freddy Fazbear. Also, are there any series besides those already mentioned which have a rotating cast of heroes, but a consistent, recurring villain?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Noncanon source aside...

Zinnia isn't a child. She's old enough that she has had children.

I am 75% sure her children are just her Pokemon.
You know like how dog owners sometimes call their dogs their babies.

 

[Gengar84]

I think some other possibilities could include Pyramid Head, Monokuma, and Freddy Fazbear. Also, are there any series besides those already mentioned which have a rotating cast of heroes, but a consistent, recurring villain?

Disgaea has Baal but he’s usually more of a secret end game boss than an antagonist of the story. Technically, I think Zelda would count here since it’s a different Link and Zelda almost every time but the same Ganon but he’s already in Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Disgaea has Baal but he’s usually more of a secret end game boss than an antagonist of the story. Technically, I think Zelda would count here since it’s a different Link and Zelda almost every time but the same Ganon but he’s already in Smash.

Four Swords Adventures has a new Ganon, but otherwise, yep.

 

[HyperSomari64]

NES and Arcade. Yes, there was an Arcade game too.

Same with Willow.

 

[Sucumbio]

Speaking of Arcade games and characters I spent a good 30 bucks on Black Tiger back in the day... My impression was based on his weapon it should be a walk in the park but dang that game was hard. I'd be totally down with a Black Tiger AT.

 

[Oracle Link]

Get Exicted Boys, Girls and Pink Blobs!
The First Part of My New Youtube Smash Concept Super Smash bros Desert will get to be uploaded soon!
It might not be of the highest Quality but i put some time into this so heres the Video it releases this Sunday at 16:00 O clock in germany! (From what i know that should be a reasonable time for you)