Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Lenidem]

Yes I'll agree there. Mario is always most likely to get a newcomer of sorts, but outside of Captain Toad and Pauline, and maybe Waluigi I really struggle to think of feasible newcomers. Maybe Nabbit? Has he gotten any role recently ?

There's also Paper Mario I guess, but the more games he gets, the less popular he gets. Kind of ironic in a way but mostly sad. Even I myself nearly don't want the character anymore despite Paper Mario being my most wanted Mario newcomer for the longest time.

Personally I also think it's very possible to get two Donkey Kong and Zelda newcomers, even if one of them would be an Echo. These are very overlooked series in terms of newcomers after all, and outside of Pokemon are the biggest flagship series Nintendo has.

There is always E.Gadd. Unfairly tossed aside from every single Mario spin-off, but faithfully present in every Luigi's Mansion, an ongoing serie with increasing popularity.

I think that if Sakurai had any more room to add characters to base Ult, he would have added Captain Toad, but he didn't and CT had no reason to be added over the characters that made it to base.

If it was not for this mandatory Pokémon slot or this "joke character"...

 

[Quillion]

One character I do want to talk about is Captain Toad. While going into Ultimate I considered him a very likely pick, I don't have nearly as much hope for him Smash 6. He's one of the few non-revolving cast characters where I think his time legitimately passed. 2013-18 was peak Captain Toad, he had a big role in 3D world, got his own spinoff, and that spinoff got ports to both the 3DS and Switch. Along with Isaac and Bandana Dee, I think that if Sakurai had any more room to add characters to base Ult, he would have added Captain Toad, but he didn't and CT had no reason to be added over the characters that made it to base. Other than a low effort DLC campaign for the Switch port of Treasure Tracker in 2019, he really hasn't gotten anything else since (not even a role in Bowser's Fury, an expanded port of what essentially started his career). Unless a Treasure Tracker 2 or something happens in the next few years (which I don't feel is very likely), I can't imagine he'll be added in Smash 6

Give him an appearance in the next 3D Mario and that will be sufficient.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

There is always E.Gadd. Unfairly tossed aside from every single Mario spin-off, but faithfully present in every Luigi's Mansion, an ongoing serie with increasing popularity.

If it was not for this mandatory Pokémon slot or this "joke character"...

My thing with E. Gadd is moreso that I think King Boo would be a much more likely pick. King Boo is just as important if not moreso to Luigi’s Mansion as a series and unlike E Gadd actually shows up in the Mario spin-offs. I also think King Boo would be a more interesting fighter as a whole, but that’s just me. I considered having a few more characters on the poll, like E Gadd, but I wanted the first poll to be on the shorter side and cover a broader reach. The next poll will likely be longer just on the virtue of people seeming to enjoy it though.

 

[PeridotGX]

Give him an appearance in the next 3D Mario and that will be sufficient.

It really depends. I very specifically did not mention his Odyssey appearance, while more than a cameo it's really not anything to write home about. It's barely more than his (largely insignificant) role in the Galaxy Games. In order for me to humor him for Smash 6, he would need a role roughly equal to (or greater than) what he had in 3D World

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

They add new mario (or mario related) characters every game

64: Mario,Donkey Kong,Yoshi,Luigi
Melee: Peach,Bowser,Doctor. Mario
Brawl: Diddy Kong, Wario
4: Rosalina and Luma, Bowser Jr.
Ultimate: Daisy, K. Rool, Piranha Plant

Same goes for Pokemon, I would say we are almost definitely getting new Mario (or related series Donkey Kong, Wario, Yoshi) and Pokemon characters next game.
Waluigi seems like a very likely possibility now that Nintendo definitely knows how wanted he is, Fan outcry has the power to bring in Sora, So it has the power to bring in Waluigi, A first party, easy to implement character.
We might also finally get a second Yoshi or Wario character, now that the Donkey Kong series has gotten its fair share.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

add donkey kong jr to this game, you cowards

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

add donkey kong jr to this game, you cowards

and Stanley the Bug Man as well.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Hey all! On the writing team we had this fun idea for an article, gauging the community on a few characters and seeing what they think of them both in terms of likelyhood and want. Feel free to reply here. https://forms.gle/EhYpSMK8Zrd67GDy7

I plan on doing this series to cover basically every single branch of Smash characters. This one right here is just focused on the Mario sub series and Mario series. I already am planning out which ones to put in the next poll, which should be on Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, and Star Fox.

Thank you to all of you who have participated so far, we are up to 70 unique replies. Here’s hoping for more!

 

[Laniv]

Thank you to all of you who have participated so far, we are up to 70 unique replies. Here’s hoping for more!

Just put in my votes! Quick question, how long will this survey be open?

 

[ZelDan]

Of the Mario characters the only 2 I gave a non-bad chance of making it into Smash 6 are Waluigi and Dixie, and even then I didn't rank either THAT highly. While both characters certainly have things going for them (especially Waluigi), these characters have had things going for them for a while now and it still hasn't gotten them into Smash so I can't be THAT optimistic for their chances.

in terms of wants, Dixie and Pauline ranked the highest for me.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I was thinking this idea for so long, but i need to say that the best way to represent non-video game franchises (aside from not representing them) with with a fighter that essentially a mix of Mortal Kombat's Shang Tsun and the Battletoads, where parts of their body shapeshifts into different 4th party characters.
Example: His Three-Jab combo can be a classic Punch→Punch→Kick, but hist left arm turns into Popeye's, then the left arm turns into the Hulk's, and finally his leg becomes Godzilla's.
And that's how we can cram various "outsiders" into a single fighter.
But for the risk of balancing, let's add an R.N.G. system where each attack is randomized. like first you grab with Spider-Man's web, and later it will swap to Luffy's arms.
P.D.: The Kame-Hame-Ha will be one of many moves that will make the mashup fighter as a Side Smash.

 

[smashkirby]

Hey all! On the writing team we had this fun idea for an article, gauging the community on a few characters and seeing what they think of them both in terms of likelyhood and want. Feel free to reply here. https://forms.gle/EhYpSMK8Zrd67GDy7

I plan on doing this series to cover basically every single branch of Smash characters. This one right here is just focused on the Mario sub series and Mario series. I already am planning out which ones to put in the next poll, which should be on Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, and Star Fox.

I just answered your survey! Interesting choice of characters you had there, especially in regards to Wario (what with you adding Mona and Captain Syrup as options, alongside Ashley).

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Just put in my votes! Quick question, how long will this survey be open?

Unknown, but honestly it depends on how many responses we get. Right now we have 84 unique responses to the survey. It honestly depends on how many we get and what further reach is feasible for the poll. I’d say at least it would be open for a week tho.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They add new mario (or mario related) characters every game

64: Mario,Donkey Kong,Yoshi,Luigi
Melee: Peach,Bowser,Doctor. Mario
Brawl: Diddy Kong, Wario
4: Rosalina and Luma, Bowser Jr.
Ultimate: Daisy, K. Rool, Piranha Plant

Same goes for Pokemon, I would say we are almost definitely getting new Mario (or related series Donkey Kong, Wario, Yoshi) and Pokemon characters next game.
Waluigi seems like a very likely possibility now that Nintendo definitely knows how wanted he is, Fan outcry has the power to bring in Sora, So it has the power to bring in Waluigi, A first party, easy to implement character.
We might also finally get a second Yoshi or Wario character, now that the Donkey Kong series has gotten its fair share.

Donkey Kong shouldn't be counted amongst the Mario newcomers, this might be the very reason we gotten Diddy and K.Rool so absurdly late. Also there are about 3 Donkey Kong characters that would make way more sense to be added than a second forced Yoshi and Wario character with Dixie, Cranky and Funky. I dare even say they are bigger omissions than any Mario characters not yet in Smash.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So based on my ballot, the average character has a 1 in 59 chance of getting in.
In every 59 potential characters about 2 will get in.

 

[fogbadge]

So based on my ballot, the average character has a 1 in 59 chance of getting in.
In every 59 potential characters about 2 will get in.

that’s ridiculously high considering how many video game characters there is

 

[Sucumbio]

Donkey Kong shouldn't be counted amongst the Mario newcomers

Agreed!

this might be the very reason we gotten Diddy and K.Rool so absurdly late.

Probably so. Not so much the perception that DK is a "Mario" character, more so DK and Mario Bros. are separate series and DK was and is treated as the lesser franchise once Super Mario Bros came out.

Also there are about 3 Donkey Kong characters that would make way more sense to be added than a second forced Yoshi and Wario character with Dixie, Cranky and Funky. I dare even say they are bigger omissions than any Mario characters not yet in Smash.

I think Rare entanglement has something to do with it but as for Nintendo prioritizing a Smash character from past Mario games over the DK franchise I don't really know what's fair to expect.

 

[fogbadge]

Agreed!



Probably so. Not so much the perception that DK is a "Mario" character, more so DK and Mario Bros. are separate series and DK was and is treated as the lesser franchise once Super Mario Bros came out.



I think Rare entanglement has something to do with it but as for Nintendo prioritizing a Smash character from past Mario games over the DK franchise I don't really know what's fair to expect.

no rare owns nothing if the DK characters

 

[Pink Yoshi]

One thing I'd like to discuss is potential SoulCalibur representation. SC was the fighting game franchise of my childhood, and while Tekken is all well and good, I would've been over the moon to see a SC rep. So if there was a SC rep, who would you want?

The obvious answer is Nightmare, considering he's pretty much the face of the franchise. He's pretty much the most likely candidate among them. But for bias I'd probably say Talim (she's a fan favorite after all), or even Cassandra for the sake of getting her legendary Ground Pound. I'd also like them to have a mechanic similar to Min Min in that using Down-B cycles between their different weapons. And of course, they'd have Kazuya-style combos as one of their main gimmicks too.

 

[fogbadge]

One thing I'd like to discuss is potential SoulCalibur representation. SC was the fighting game franchise of my childhood, and while Tekken is all well and good, I would've been over the moon to see a SC rep. So if there was a SC rep, who would you want?

The obvious answer is Nightmare, considering he's pretty much the face of the franchise. He's pretty much the most likely candidate among them. But for bias I'd probably say Talim (she's a fan favorite after all), or even Cassandra for the sake of getting her legendary Ground Pound. I'd also like them to have a mechanic similar to Min Min in that using Down-B cycles between their different weapons. And of course, they'd have Kazuya-style combos as one of their main gimmicks too.

kilik. He’s the best character in the series and I’m not saying that cause he’s my favourite it’s cause he’s so dam pretty

plus it’d be great to have a staff fighter on the roster

 

[Quillion]

It really depends. I very specifically did not mention his Odyssey appearance, while more than a cameo it's really not anything to write home about. It's barely more than his (largely insignificant) role in the Galaxy Games. In order for me to humor him for Smash 6, he would need a role roughly equal to (or greater than) what he had in 3D World

I think the fact he's a recurring main series character is good enough. Bowser Jr. took a long break from the 3D games after Galaxy 2 until Bowser's Fury.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think the fact he's a recurring main series character is good enough. Bowser Jr. took a long break from the 3D games after Galaxy 2 until Bowser's Fury.

I mean, comparing Jr. to Captain Toad feels a bit like a false equivalency. Jr, while taking a break from main series 3D games, was still a very recurring face in the spinoffs and was a star in the New Super Mario Bros games. He was much more entrenched in the series than Captain Toad is now. Captain Toad does not have that same rap sheet yet.

Keep in mind I think Captain Toad is a reasonably likely pick for a Mario newcomer at the end of the day when I say this, but he is not on that level that Jr. was in 2012 or so when the roster for Smash 4 was finalized. Though being 100% candid, I do not thing any of the characters on my poll are on that level Jr. was at in hindsight. I'd say some of them, such as Captain Toad, are in a similar position to say Rosalina in that era.


-------------------------------------
On the note of Mario stuff, I decided to do some calcs for the poll at 87 responses. Some things have been super interesting in the data. There are now two characters over performing what I expected for them for Chance and Want. One also is doing much better than I expected in terms of want.

 

[Diddy Kong]

no rare owns nothing if the DK characters

This wasn't exactly clear during the development time of Melee. The Rare buyout just happened and Rare was actually trying to claim the rights to Donkey Kong, and if they couldn't, at least their own created Kong characters of which of course Diddy.

The weirdest thing about Melee was the lack of a Diddy trophy, but Dixie and K.Rool where there. This leads me to believe Diddy was probably planned at some point. Another suspicious detail was Event Match 2 where you fight a Giant Donkey Kong and a small Donkey Kong in the red costume. Might have originally been meant to be Diddy. This is of course a theory. But I don't think am far off, as Sakurai also stated with the Diddy reveal in Brawl that his arrival was late. It's illogical that he'd been one of the planned fighters of Smash 64, that means Melee was probably the "right time" for him to join.

 

[dream1ng]

I think the lack of Diddy in Melee is probably because Rare relinquished the other DK characters but probably fought more for Diddy since he was kind of their mascot. For instance, Diddy Kong Racing was published by Rare, not Nintendo.

So I reckon Diddy Kong was more tied up in litigation with an undecided fate, and Nintendo just excluded/removed him along with (most) other Rare IP content.

 

[Perkilator]

On another note:

 

[fogbadge]

This wasn't exactly clear during the development time of Melee. The Rare buyout just happened and Rare was actually trying to claim the rights to Donkey Kong, and if they couldn't, at least their own created Kong characters of which of course Diddy.

The weirdest thing about Melee was the lack of a Diddy trophy, but Dixie and K.Rool where there. This leads me to believe Diddy was probably planned at some point. Another suspicious detail was Event Match 2 where you fight a Giant Donkey Kong and a small Donkey Kong in the red costume. Might have originally been meant to be Diddy. This is of course a theory. But I don't think am far off, as Sakurai also stated with the Diddy reveal in Brawl that his arrival was late. It's illogical that he'd been one of the planned fighters of Smash 64, that means Melee was probably the "right time" for him to join.

yes but they still don't own anything of the DK series. unless you count the DKR original characters. but yes the absence of his trophy in melee was quite odd, especially if like me you think his inclusion in the series was inevitable

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Given the rushed nature of Melee I always figured that Diddy was simply put on the backburner overall and the inclusion of his trophy just wasn't considered a high priority.

 

[dream1ng]

Given the rushed nature of Melee I always figured that Diddy was simply put on the backburner overall and the inclusion of his trophy just wasn't considered a high priority.

Diddy was a very prominent character in the years before Melee. I doubt his complete absence was simply them not being bothered to spend the time giving him a trophy. Stanley the Bugman had one.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

On another note:

If this actually happened I would cry LOL.
We need a mainline SMT rep!

 

[Dinoman96]

It's been stated before that there were supposed to be more trophies based on Rare characters (including Banjo & Kazooie) in Melee but these plans fell through due to time/logistics.

RARE not surprised that Banjo, Conker weren't in Smash Bros. Melee, but says RARE trophies were yanked from Melee

From the GoNintendo Archives

gonintendo.com

“Well, it was hardly surprising: Conker had only appeared in DKR at that point and Banjo-Kazooie was in development at the same time as Smashy. Memory tells me there were almost a boatload of Rare character trophies in Melee at one point, but it never happened.” - RARE scribes mailbag

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It's possible Diddy was amongst the cuts.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Given the rushed nature of Melee I always figured that Diddy was simply put on the backburner overall and the inclusion of his trophy just wasn't considered a high priority.

Doesn't explain the lack of a trophy, despite being mentioned as early as Smash 64 on DK's character bio. He's also mentioned in Dixie's Melee trophy. So his exclusion in Melee was very strange all things considered. Think I explained that well enough last post.

Also page 333 already. How many times will we reach 333 from here before we get news about Smash one way or another?

 

[PeridotGX]

I mean, comparing Jr. to Captain Toad feels a bit like a false equivalency. Jr, while taking a break from main series 3D games, was still a very recurring face in the spinoffs and was a star in the New Super Mario Bros games. He was much more entrenched in the series than Captain Toad is now. Captain Toad does not have that same rap sheet yet.

Keep in mind I think Captain Toad is a reasonably likely pick for a Mario newcomer at the end of the day when I say this, but he is not on that level that Jr. was in 2012 or so when the roster for Smash 4 was finalized. Though being 100% candid, I do not thing any of the characters on my poll are on that level Jr. was at in hindsight. I'd say some of them, such as Captain Toad, are in a similar position to say Rosalina in that era.


-------------------------------------
On the note of Mario stuff, I decided to do some calcs for the poll at 87 responses. Some things have been super interesting in the data. There are now two characters over performing what I expected for them for Chance and Want. One also is doing much better than I expected in terms of want.

That's interesting. There's one character I ended up giving a much higher chance score than I expected, they would never get in as a unique character but they make sense as an echo. I wonder if that's one of them.

(also, I submitted an application to the writing team. do you know if it went through or not?)

 

[Perkilator]

If this actually happened I would cry LOL.
We need a mainline SMT rep!

…Yu Narukami is from Persona.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Space divas, comic panels, and the movies!

SEGA is partnering with @picturestart to produce film adaptions of Space Channel 5 and Comix Zone!

Which parts of these SEGA gems are you most excited to see played out on the big screen? 🎥#SEGA #SpaceChannel5 #ComixZone pic.twitter.com/WcdfnWJe5y

— SEGA (@SEGA) August 19, 2022

Which joke you guys want me to make, the "Space Channel 5/Comix Zone for Smash" joke, or the "Sega Cinematic Universe" joke?

 

[Quillion]

I mean, comparing Jr. to Captain Toad feels a bit like a false equivalency. Jr, while taking a break from main series 3D games, was still a very recurring face in the spinoffs and was a star in the New Super Mario Bros games. He was much more entrenched in the series than Captain Toad is now. Captain Toad does not have that same rap sheet yet.

Keep in mind I think Captain Toad is a reasonably likely pick for a Mario newcomer at the end of the day when I say this, but he is not on that level that Jr. was in 2012 or so when the roster for Smash 4 was finalized. Though being 100% candid, I do not thing any of the characters on my poll are on that level Jr. was at in hindsight. I'd say some of them, such as Captain Toad, are in a similar position to say Rosalina in that era.


-------------------------------------
On the note of Mario stuff, I decided to do some calcs for the poll at 87 responses. Some things have been super interesting in the data. There are now two characters over performing what I expected for them for Chance and Want. One also is doing much better than I expected in terms of want.

Come to think of it, Captain Toad is pretty much the opposite of Waluigi. Captain Toad gets ignored by the spinoffs while a fairly established mainline side character, while Waluigi is exclusively a spinoff character.

Should potential Mario fighters take both main series and spinoffs into account rather than just the former as of yet?

 

[fogbadge]

Should potential Mario fighters take both main series and spinoffs into account rather than just the former as of yet?

well if they do then the ideal spin off rep would be someone who debuted in a spin-off and made it to the main series. So toadette

 

[chocolatejr9]

Come to think of it, Captain Toad is pretty much the opposite of Waluigi. Captain Toad gets ignored by the spinoffs while a fairly established mainline side character, while Waluigi is exclusively a spinoff character.

Should potential Mario fighters take both main series and spinoffs into account rather than just the former as of yet?

I mean, Daisy KINDA does? She debuted in Super Mario Land, but these days only appears in spinoffs.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Space divas, comic panels, and the movies!

SEGA is partnering with @picturestart to produce film adaptions of Space Channel 5 and Comix Zone!

Which parts of these SEGA gems are you most excited to see played out on the big screen? 🎥#SEGA #SpaceChannel5 #ComixZone pic.twitter.com/WcdfnWJe5y

— SEGA (@SEGA) August 19, 2022

Which joke you guys want me to make, the "Space Channel 5/Comix Zone for Smash" joke, or the "Sega Cinematic Universe" joke?

you've seen lord of the rings, but get ready for GOLDEN AXE

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, Daisy KINDA does? She debuted in Super Mario Land, but these days only appears in spinoffs.

Not entirely true. Super Mario Run is officially a mainline game(for some reason), but she also cameo'd(along with Waluigi) in Super Mario Maker's costume set. Waluigi also has a costume reference in Super Mario Odyssey.

For the most part, yeah, they're pretty much spin-off characters, despite having some mainline appearances(coincidentally both have 2 in some way after their debut game, cameo or otherwise). Daisy has literally one extra appearance in a mainline game with SML1.

 

[Ivander]

Space divas, comic panels, and the movies!

SEGA is partnering with @picturestart to produce film adaptions of Space Channel 5 and Comix Zone!

Which parts of these SEGA gems are you most excited to see played out on the big screen? 🎥#SEGA #SpaceChannel5 #ComixZone pic.twitter.com/WcdfnWJe5y

— SEGA (@SEGA) August 19, 2022

Which joke you guys want me to make, the "Space Channel 5/Comix Zone for Smash" joke, or the "Sega Cinematic Universe" joke?

I'm certainly not against Sega Cinematic, but I mean, remakes of these games would probably help these games more than just movies. Although if they put in the effort, Comix Zone could have alot of potential.
I mean, you have a villain who comes out of a comic book, trades places with the protagonist writing a comic book and tries to kill the protagonist by drawing and making new enemies and other dangers while the protagonist literally going through comic book pages to try and find a way to beat the villain. I think you could have alot of fun with that kind of concept if you put in the effort.