• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

dream1ng

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
1,908
The thing about "Everyone is Here" is it becomes immediately untenable whenever Nintendo/Sakurai simply want to start at the foundational level again instead of do what Ultimate did with Smash 4. You aren't going to be able to have what would be a Smash roster of over 100 if you start from the ground up. Not realistically.

Given this time was atypical in how not just Smash games are endeavored, but most Nintendo games in general, I'm thinking this was a matter of circumstance and its repetition is not as likely as some people are thinking.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
12,143
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
The thing about "Everyone is Here" is it becomes immediately untenable whenever Nintendo/Sakurai simply want to start at the foundational level again instead of do what Ultimate did with Smash 4. You aren't going to be able to have what would be a Smash roster of over 100 if you start from the ground up. Not realistically.

Given this time was atypical in how not just Smash games are endeavored, but most Nintendo games in general, I'm thinking this was a matter of circumstance and its repetition is not as likely as some people are thinking.
I believe Smash 4 was also building from Brawl assets rather than from scratch, but didn't do Everyone Is Here because A. that wasn't going to be 4's schtick, and B. having resources split between things like 3DS/Wii U exclusive modes, custom moves, a larger amount of newcomers than base Ultimate etc.
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,309
Like part of the reason why I'm not worried about "Everybody is Here" not returning is that we still have so many other popular characters yet to appear in Smash Bros. Would be even better if Nintendo decided to take advantage of the amount of IPs it has and go a bit crazy with them, but just the amount of popular characters still yet to appear in Smash Bros can fill in the gaps of those that don't return, like Dante, Master Chief, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Akira Howard, Sans, Shantae, etc and newer games like Metroid Dread, Breath of the Wild 2, Bayonetta 3, Advance Wars Reboot Camp, etc.

And good lord, if anybody wants to feel old or look at the fossils of old Brawl speculation/character suggestions/etc......
 

Shroob

Sup?
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
40,564
Location
Washington
Like part of the reason why I'm not worried about "Everybody is Here" not returning is that we still have so many other popular characters yet to appear in Smash Bros. Would be even better if Nintendo decided to take advantage of the amount of IPs it has and go a bit crazy with them, but just the amount of popular characters still yet to appear in Smash Bros can fill in the gaps of those that don't return, like Dante, Master Chief, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Akira Howard, Sans, Shantae, etc and newer games like Metroid Dread, Breath of the Wild 2, Bayonetta 3, Advance Wars Reboot Camp, etc.

And good lord, if anybody wants to feel old or look at the fossils of old Brawl speculation/character suggestions/etc......
Look at the first link

Find myself on the front page


Oh gods
 

dream1ng

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
1,908
I believe Smash 4 was also building from Brawl assets rather than from scratch, but didn't do Everyone Is Here because A. that wasn't going to be 4's schtick, and B. having resources split between things like 3DS/Wii U exclusive modes, custom moves, a larger amount of newcomers than base Ultimate etc.
I believe each one has used assets from the previous (not sure about 64 to Melee though), and that will likely continue in the future, but none to nearly the same extent as 4 to Ultimate, where it was basically like continuing on top of a product instead of leveraging some of the building blocks.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
410
Some Characters I'd Want to see If there IS another Smash game after Ultimate;

1. Ring Fit Trainee as a Playable Fighter

2. Ashkar Behek/Raven Beak as a Playable Fighter

some Changes to Existing Characters:

A. Samus Taking more after her appearence & gameplay of Metroid Dread; similar to how Link in SSBU was modeled after his Appearence & Moveset from BOTW
 
Last edited:

Dan Quixote

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
1,106
Location
Florida
I'm tellin ya, if they just market the next game perfectly, the cuts won't really matter. The nature of Smash and social media and hype means that few will complain about the lack of "Everyone is here!" even if half the roster is cut as long as there's a steady stream of exciting newcomer trailers that get everyone to jump with emotion.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
12,143
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
not sure about 64 to Melee though
In that case, I believe Melee's actually the biggest engine change Smash has ever seen.
Look at how running speeds are measured in 64 vs. other games.
 

Shroob

Sup?
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
40,564
Location
Washington
I'm tellin ya, if they just market the next game perfectly, the cuts won't really matter. The nature of Smash and social media and hype means that few will complain about the lack of "Everyone is here!" even if half the roster is cut as long as there's a steady stream of exciting newcomer trailers that get everyone to jump with emotion.
Looks at Pokemon

1635980312768.png
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
8,768
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Masked Man was one of the top requests of the Brawl Era. People wonder how a niche character like geno became popular - i guess that's just how things were back then.
Look at the first link

Find myself on the front page



Oh gods
at least most people aren't really anti wario getting a second character anymore? You won!
 

Dan Quixote

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
1,106
Location
Florida
In Smash's case though I see it as a good thing. I am going to have half a decade of fun memories regarding playing pretty much any in Smash, and those memories will stay with me forever. Whether it's the obscure characters like Roy or the hard-to-get ones like Sora. So yeah gimme new stuff when the new game comes around!
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,698
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Sakurai more often than not undersells himself so I could see another “everyone is here” happening if he wanted. Is that what he wants to do though? Who knows? I will say that more often than not re-negotiations are much for fruitful than plain ole negotiations.

Also, Banjo at #2? Hell yeah!
Well there WAS Snake being absent from 4, but I think that’s the exception and not the norm cuz Konami was uhhhh

not good at the time
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
37,944
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Masked Man was one of the top requests of the Brawl Era. People wonder how a niche character like geno became popular - i guess that's just how things were back then.

at least most people aren't really anti wario getting a second character anymore? You won!
Brawl was the era of asking for anyone you liked, regardless of who they were.

For better or for worse.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
480
You only get one shot to do Ultimate DX like a proper Smash 6 and I think it'd be silly to not take it. It's also just happens to be what most people want which is pretty solid business strategy beyond just the gaming industry.

Also besides all of that (and what I just laid out is good reason enough really) I think people fail to bring up the cost-saving aspect inherent to such a project. People constantly harp on the "legal nightmare" it is (they could have very well negotiated for these third parties for two games for all we know and Sakurai and Nintendo are just playing with the press right now) but even if they didn't AND even if the third parties weren't easier to deal with on account of Smash's overwhelmingly positive impact on their respective brands you'd STILL be saving money on the fact that you're not redeveloping anything that is already in Ultimate.
 

Lionfranky

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
1,015
I will repeat what I've said before.
Next Smash must be live service platform. That way, they don't have to worry about cutting roster.
Settle third party licensing issue from start.
They can monetize skins, new fighters, stage, etc...
That sounds less rage-inducing than the recent expansion pack price.
Sakurai said making new fighter is hard, time-consuming, expansive, but once he or his successor figure out strategy they can do it.
Hell, Nintendo already ventured into live service platforms.
There are plenty of ways to make live service Smash profitable.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,085
I agree that unless we get Heavy Technological Advancements, Trying to build a New Smash game with Different foundations is gonna be Impossible without Heavy Sacrifices.

The thing is that There's not much of a reason to change the Foundation at the current Moment, especially since there's still not really a Real, Threatening Competitor to Smash's Gameplay Formula at the moment. We have to see what WB does with their game, but otherwise the other Smash-Like games can't really compare I would say

Like I've said, the thing with Ultimate is that the game is very Fined tuned, and most Importantly, the Balance is very Fine tuned. Now yes the Balance isn't Perfect, and there are still some Degenerate Balancing Decisions in some people's Eyes, but overall it is in a very good spot, especially when you compare it to Previous games where Both the Universal Gameplay Elements and Character Balance were a Mess and resulted in some of the Most Broken Characters in Fighting game history.

Ultimate wasn't just about Bringing everything back, but it was also about Fine tuning what exactly they brought back, including the Characters/Veterans themselves in terms of Expressions, Animations, Balance, and Game plans, The actual Gameplay Elements of the game, The Stages, even some of the modes, etc.

Unlike Previous Smash games, I don't think Ultimate really needs a Shake up in terms of changing the Elements unlike Previous Smash games, so I think it can focus on Expanding the Game that's already there with Quality of Life Changes and Additions to Content. Gameplay Additions would be Nice, but I actually don't think is needed.

Nintendo does love adding Gameplay Elements to Sequels or Expansions, but as Splatoon 3 and BOTW2 is showing (Even if we don't have that much footage of either, especially the latter), They especially now are willing to keep to what previous Games have established. I think this is more true in Today's Gaming Industry. Development Costs have Skyrocketed from the Past days, and it's only gonna keep Rising and Rising, along with the Expectations of what games need these days. Sakurai and Harada I believed talked about this very thing on Harada's Bar

I know Pokemon Comparisons have been made, and there is some truth to arguments made about it, but I think there is different variables in Smash and Pokemon's Case

-Sword and Shield was really the First Mainline Console Pokemon game I can think of, so the Transition to that form of Development is something to consider. The Sacrifices of Sword and Shield were painful, but with the task already of having to have a New Foundation, it was needed. Going into the Next Smash, there's not really a "Necessary reason" to have to change the Formula or Developed Base as of now

I also don't see the Next Console after the Switch being such a High Upgrade over the Switch that it would require Restructuring the Base Assets of Smash Ultimate. It's not like we going to Xbox Series X, PS5, or PC levels of Power I would think.

-While Sword and Shield did sell Well to the Casuals, managing to top 20 Million, I don't think that means that Nintendo can just get away with anything

Looking at the Sales of Past games, and the Sales of Sword and Shield, it is obvious the Hardcore Crowd did have an effect on the Sales of Sword and Shield. Pokemon games on the 3DS were, besides Mario Kart, the Highest Selling games. Outsold Smash 3DS and Animal Crossing New Leaf. Now Sword and Shield got beat by Smash Ultimate, BOTW, and New Horizons. Granted BOTW and Smash are older games, but Pokemon Sun and Moon was able to beat Smash 3DS despite being out for less amount of Time, and there's no Excuse with New Horizons

It's also worth noting that Sword and Shield is likely a lot of People's First Pokemon Game. This is the First Mainline Pokemon Game on a Console like System. People that don't pay Attention to Handhelds might not have Played Pokemon before, but might have had this chance now.

-I really do think that the Characters of Smash matter more than the Pokemon in Pokemon. For one, Since there's much less characters (Playable) in Smash than in Pokemon, the Cutting of one character in Smash is gonna mean more than a Cutting of One Pokemon. The Characters in Smash also mean much more to the Gameplay of Smash than Specific Pokemon do to the Pokemon Experience I Imagine. The Characters in Smash more change up how you Approach the Gameplay than any Individual Pokemon.

Pokemon can introduce Completely new Pokemon to the game and such. The thing is that Smash is working with Already Established characters of their own, so when you have a Scenario where you're Cuttings someone like Snake, that's potential audience that you just lost. The Crossover over Nature of Smash is the biggest reason for it's Success, and all the Fanbases that Crossover.


Going by this logic, I am gonna try to outline who would likely be the main picks for each company going forward. In terms of new companies like Activision or Tecmo their big picks (Crash, Hayabusa) are also pretty solid fan requests in their own right so its kinda moot.

Konami: Aluacard is king. He is very popular and almost made it in Ultimate over the Belmonts. If we get someone, it would likely be him. Bomberman is a solid fan request but I would bet on Alucard.
Sega: This one is hard because you have a few smaller ring franchises in the grand scheme of things like Puyo and to a lesser extent Yakuza. I would say that SMT and Phantasy Star both make a lot of sense. Phantasy Star Online still rakes in money and the series has a strong legacy, so I would go with that if I had to guess. Either someone like Alis from Phantasy Star or Eggman. If you count Atlus alone, do something like Demi Fiend.
Capcom: It's Dante. RE and MH are both huge, but Sakurai nodded to the Dante demand. DMC is big enough and he has the fan demand. The Capcom crown is his for the taking.
Bamco: Lloyd. Tales is one of their biggest series, and he is a fan favorite. Similar to Dante he is in a good spot.
Microsoft: Chief. Yes Dovakhin and Doomguy are big, but Chief is massive. Halo legit is the mascot of Microsoft, if we get another Microsoft rep I would say Chief takes it even if I could see both Bethesda reps making it in.
SNK: Kyo most likely, he is probably their second biggest character.
Disney: Look, KH is weird and we wont end up with a Disney character themselves, so a second KH rep by default.

To be honest, the only real exception I could see is an Indie rep, but that crown is Undertale's for the taking imo and Undertale and Deltarune are massive.
I'll mention couple of my takes

Sega: Another Sonic Character is definitely the King here, no Questions asked. I acknowledge that Puyo Puyo, Yakuza, SMT, and Phantasy start are Franchises, and SMTV could be the game that boost up it's Franchise like what Persona 5 did, but those franchises aren't the ones that are getting Movies and Netflix Shows, and despite Sonic's Games being in inconsistent Quality, they continue to sell reasonably well and is among the Main pillars of Sega's Revenue. Characters like Eggman (More recently), Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles are also among the most requested characters

Capcom: I think Monster Hunter is done in terms of getting a Fighter, I do believe that Capcom wants the Monster to shine through the most rather than the Hunter. However I think they could try to Attempt RE again for the Next game If they aren't already in the process and/or Finished with that, and if they succeed in that, I think RE would be the Choice here, not Dante

Also I'm gonna be perfectly Honest, I'm unsure if they would manage to Make Dante in the Base game if the Next Smash game. If there's one character I think Absolutely has to be DLC due to Developmental reasons, it would be Dante. I don't think they would go the Sora route and Simplify him for Smash, but go in the Complete Opposite Direction and make him the Complex Beast he is in DMC.

What I honestly could see happening is if they must have a DMC Character in Base, they would go with Nero. He's the Forefront of DMCV, The Highest Selling DMC Game, he is a Popular character, and His moveset would definitly have Uniqueness, but would also be Simple enough to Implement and Balance. It also would be more Fresh since Unlike Dante, Nero hasn't been in a Fighting game before. They could then Save Dante and Vergil for DLC once they already Roped in the DMC Fanbase


Namco: I could see Lloyd, but I also think Yuri, and now recently, Alphen and what's her Name (I forgot) from Tales of Arise could be the Characters for Tales of. Tales of Arise is looking to be the game that brings Tales of to the Mainstream more than any other game

Even then, I could see Agumon because Digimon is Digimon after all.

SNK: I honestly could see a Situation where Iori gets in over Kyo, because People love Iori and think he is Brillant, including Sakurai himself.

Disney: I still do think Mickey Mouse could honestly be a thing, and might actually have been a Stipulation for having Sora in the game, because I think Disney themselves know Mickey going against Mario would be a Big deal, and Video Games is the Biggest Entertainment market over Flim and stuff.
 

dream1ng

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
1,908
Well keep in mind that just asking for a character isn't all it's going to take to make them popular, even in the Brawl era. There need to be enough other people that like them and believe in them. Masked Man presumably had the "cool" factor which has done wonders for Geno, but most of biggest requests weren't that unorthodox back then.

Yes there were larger camps for characters like Saki, Ray Mk, Andy, Starfy, Chibi-Robo, etc. but those series were also active then. Or for some of them, at least not as dormant. It's like in 4 when there were camps for Dillon and Wonder Red and whatnot.
 

Yamat08

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
312
Honestly given Sakurai and company's attention to detail, I wonder if the "most realizable" wasn't just a matter of getting rights, but also of sufficiently getting a fighter right to the point where they were satisfied.

I could easily see a scenario where they could have hypothetically gotten the okay from Microsoft and created Banjo for Smash 4 DLC, but that they felt they didn't have the time or resources to do complete justice to the character.
When you think about it, having so many characters on the roster makes it harder and harder to justify squeezing in a new addition (especially when they're paid-for DLC characters), which is probably why so many of the newcomers focused on some kind of new gameplay gimmick.

It's not uncommon among certain series to have a mentality of "if you can't go bigger, go different". Smash doing the same wouldn't necessarily be surprising, especially if the successor Switch is backwards compatible, thus allowing a bit of safety net for fans that want the Ultimate kind of experience on the next system.
I think I mentioned it in this thread earlier, but with more games going digital, as well as consoles relying less on complex, difficult-to-replicate structures (and especially with Nintendo abandoning their Wii-era interface gimmicks), it would be nice if all consoles just stuck with backwards compatibility going forward. More so when you consider that PC gaming is viable competition now, and that has a massive advantage in compatibility.

Elma/Decidueye/Celica: This one might be obvious, but imo most of these missed the boat in terms of timing. I think its safe to say that we will likely see them go the way of Zoroark, Deoxys, or Micaiah where they were reasonably large fan requests at one point, but they simmered down a lot after their window got closed. Elma to a lesser extent since an X remake or sequel does seem like a reasonable possibility, but I would say don't get your hopes up too much.
I remember seeing a rumor that Mia would join Ike as a Fire Emblem rep. She was one of my MVPs in Paths of Radiance, so that actually got me pretty excited. Of course, nowadays, I abandoned any hope of Mia getting in considering her minor role in the story combined with the oversaturation of Fire Emblem as a whole (though it is a bit disheartening to see she couldn't even get a Trophy, Sticker, or Spirit).

Ironically, while I agree with many others that Fire Emblem representation is bloated, at the same time, I also can't help feeling there's still room for improvement. The Jugdral fans certainly got a raw deal, and long-time staples such as Tiki and Anna are pretty glaring absences (especially Tiki, whom I seem to recall was pretty much Japan's favorite waifu from the series way back when I was barely learning about the series post-Melee, to the point that it's little wonder why she returned in Awakening). I think the biggest problem with Fire Emblem in Smash is that, aside from Marth, almost every character is pretty much a flavor-of-the-month who's only there to promote the latest entry as opposed to a long-standing icon (though I guess to Ike's credit, he was one of the few Lords to feature in multiple entries, and Chrom remained a popular request despite getting dissed for Robin and his daughter).

I will repeat what I've said before.
Next Smash must be live service platform. That way, they don't have to worry about cutting roster.
Settle third party licensing issue from start.
They can monetize skins, new fighters, stage, etc...
That sounds less rage-inducing than the recent expansion pack price.
Sakurai said making new fighter is hard, time-consuming, expansive, but once he or his successor figure out strategy they can do it.
Hell, Nintendo already ventured into live service platforms.
There are plenty of ways to make live service Smash profitable.
Honestly, so long as we can keep all our stuff offline, I wouldn't mind Smash just going the Killer Instinct route.
 

Geno Boost

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
4,378
Location
Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Who do some people hate F.L.U.D.D for Mario’s down special? it’s the only Mario Sunshine reference I think getting rid of it isn’t a good idea unless if we are giving Mario echo fighter Robo Mario with the Mario Sunshine moveset
 
Last edited:

Shroob

Sup?
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
40,564
Location
Washington
Who do some people hate F.L.U.D.D for Mario’s down special? it’s the only Mario Sunshine reference I think getting rid of it isn’t a good idea unless if we are giving Mario echo fighter Robo Mario with the Mario Sunshine moveset
For some, it's because it replaced his original down special.


For others, it's because it's very awkward.



Mario's basically the Ryu of Smash, he's the 'basic' character that anyone can pick up and play without having to put a lot of thought into, he's very simple. So then to have a chargeable pushback move on a character whose selling point is supposed to be "Basic, simplistic" is a bit antithetical.
 

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
17,619
Location
Waxing Moon Ritual
NNID
Miyamoto Iori
Switch FC
SW-4826-9581-3305
For some, it's because it replaced his original down special.


For others, it's because it's very awkward.



Mario's basically the Ryu of Smash, he's the 'basic' character that anyone can pick up and play without having to put a lot of thought into, he's very simple. So then to have a chargeable pushback move on a character whose selling point is supposed to be "Basic, simplistic" is a bit antithetical.
Plus being a reference to a game isn't super noteworthy in and of itself.
I think reference to a game is really only important if it's core to their character like fireball or super jump punch, things he does in every single game.

Something like FLUDD is definitely not what I would consider core to Mario's identity. There are many other references to pull from if you care about it connecting to an original game.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
480
Who do some people hate F.L.U.D.D for Mario’s down special? it’s the only Mario Sunshine reference I think getting rid of it isn’t a good idea unless if we are giving Mario echo fighter Robo Mario with the Mario Sunshine moveset
I agree with you. Personally if I was going to rework Mario's moveset I'd definitely be keeping F.L.U.D.D. I'd add a modest amount of damage to the pushback thing though and I'd make it so that if F.L.U.D.D was full then Mario would then have a float (Like Peach and Daisy's) option just like he does in Sunshine.

I don't agree with people getting rid of it because like I've said you can just simply add upon its concept as a move in his arsenal and also yeah Sunshine should definitely be referenced and I can't imagine a more appropriate application than where it's currently placed and how it functions. Again I think it simply needs some additional buffs.

Maybe something like his old custom options combined into 1 super move. Like combining Scalding F.L.U.D.D and High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D as shown here? Idk but yeah.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
12,143
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I agree with you. Personally if I was going to rework Mario's moveset I'd definitely be keeping F.L.U.D.D. I'd add a modest amount of damage to the pushback thing though and I'd make it so that if F.L.U.D.D was full then Mario would then have a float (Like Peach and Daisy's) option just like he does in Sunshine.

I don't agree with people getting rid of it because like I've said you can just simply add upon its concept as a move in his arsenal and also yeah Sunshine should definitely be referenced and I can't imagine a more appropriate application than where it's currently placed and how it functions. Again I think it simply needs some additional buffs.

Maybe something like his old custom options combined into 1 super move. Like combining Scalding F.L.U.D.D and High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D as shown here? Idk but yeah.
Problem is, you seem to be wanting Mario to be complex, when he's not. He's supposed to be the beginner character, which is why some of us hate FLUDD's inclusion in the moveset in the first place.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,496
Location
Somewhere Out There
“It’s the only Super Mario Sunshine reference”

True, but Mario’s moveset doesn’t really tend to reference specific games like that. There’s Cape referencing Super Mario World, several normals come from Super Mario 64 and Up Special has a chance to use Cappy, but other than that Mario’s moveset just isn’t a reference-y set.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
480
Problem is, you seem to be wanting Mario to be complex, when he's not. He's supposed to be the beginner character, which is why some of us hate FLUDD's inclusion in the moveset in the first place.
I don't even see how it's that complex. Hell Donkey Kong the second character ever has a similar function with his Neutral-Special where he charges it for a bit, can roll around some if in danger, finish the charge then have it completely stored for later use. Lots of characters in the game have this mechanic as well like Samus and Mewtwo. I think if F.L.U.D.D actually did damage on top of the pushback it does people wouldn't find it as odd as they do. It's a nice tool and again I think the reference to Sunshine is valid and necessary. F.L.U.D.D is literally the only thing you could reference from that game.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
12,143
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I don't even see how it's that complex. Hell Donkey Kong the second character ever has a similar function with his Neutral-Special where he charges it for a bit, can roll around some if in danger, finish the charge then have it completely stored for later use. Lots of characters in the game have this mechanic as well like Samus and Mewtwo. I think if F.L.U.D.D actually did damage on top of the pushback it does people wouldn't find it as odd as they do. It's a nice tool and again I think the reference to Sunshine is valid and necessary. F.L.U.D.D is literally the only thing you could reference from that game.
"Mario would then have a float" just conflicts with how straightforward Mario's supposed to be. Movesets aren't supposed to just be references, hence DK's lack of a coconut gun.
 
Last edited:

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
480
"Mario would then have a float" just conflicts with how straightforward Mario's supposed to be. Movesets aren't supposed to just be references, hence DK's lack of a coconut gun.
Oh so my hypothetical additions? Well I don't know. Again I don't see how this would be that complex. Straightforwardness isn't the end all be all and I'm sure even beginners would appreciate the float ability once they learned that they had it. This kind of stuff is also why a simple little tutorial screen (beyond just the specials) for each and every character would be worthy of development even if it wasn't development spent on the stuff that matters to me and most players.

I always advocate for what I like as a player and I just like having more options.
 

Shroob

Sup?
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
40,564
Location
Washington
Oh so my hypothetical additions? Well I don't know. Again I don't see how this would be that complex. Straightforwardness isn't the end all be all and I'm sure even beginners would appreciate the float ability once they learned that they had it. This kind of stuff is also why a simple little tutorial screen (beyond just the specials) for each and every character would be worthy of development even if it wasn't development spent on the stuff that matters to me and most players.

I always advocate for what I like as a player and I just like having more options.
I think it boils down to what I said earlier in that Mario's the Ryu of Smash. He's supposed to be kinda milquetoast bland so that you have a basic idea of what's just a 'normal' fighter, while other characters can be the insane crazy, gimmicky ones.


Like, imagine if Ryu was perfectly 'normal' for a Shoto, but then included a bunch of crazy inputs for certain moves, and this was supposed to be the "You're new, play this guy" character.


I do agree that tutorials help, but they only help to an extent. Every fighting game needs a 'simple' character for a baseline.
 

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
17,619
Location
Waxing Moon Ritual
NNID
Miyamoto Iori
Switch FC
SW-4826-9581-3305
Yeah when I want to introduce new players using an "all-round generalist" to give them a gist of what a character is like, I don't choose Mario. He's a combo-fiend with a bunch of strange moves that no other character has like the FLUDD, cape, spinny dair, and spiking slow fair.

I generally like to ease players in with Wolf instead who has almost every common tool in the game, but not the best in any of their classes.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,572
I think the issue with "EVERYONE IS HERE" is it just doesn't seem sustainable forever.


People are worried about the next entry, well, what about the one after that, and the one after that?


This feels like an issue that can only be delayed, not stopped.
That’s why I think Mr. Burns needs to take over Smash from here on out.

 

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,272
Like part of the reason why I'm not worried about "Everybody is Here" not returning is that we still have so many other popular characters yet to appear in Smash Bros. Would be even better if Nintendo decided to take advantage of the amount of IPs it has and go a bit crazy with them, but just the amount of popular characters still yet to appear in Smash Bros can fill in the gaps of those that don't return, like Dante, Master Chief, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Akira Howard, Sans, Shantae, etc and newer games like Metroid Dread, Breath of the Wild 2, Bayonetta 3, Advance Wars Reboot Camp, etc.
Honestly that's the thing to me, though. Even if Master Chief or Dante or whatever get in, it'd just feel kinda hollow because I wouldn't have them be able to fight the likes of Sora or Sephiroth or Banjo or whatever. I remember how pissed I was that I couldn't have Snake fight Cloud or Bayonetta back in Smash 4.

If "Everyone is here" doesn't happen again, it feels every newcomer from here on out is just gonna have some sort of "badge of shame" to them, because they failed to get into "the ultimate Smash Bros." where Snake, Cloud, Steve, Sephiroth, Sora, etc were all playable.
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,698
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
I agree that unless we get Heavy Technological Advancements, Trying to build a New Smash game with Different foundations is gonna be Impossible without Heavy Sacrifices.

The thing is that There's not much of a reason to change the Foundation at the current Moment, especially since there's still not really a Real, Threatening Competitor to Smash's Gameplay Formula at the moment. We have to see what WB does with their game, but otherwise the other Smash-Like games can't really compare I would say

Like I've said, the thing with Ultimate is that the game is very Fined tuned, and most Importantly, the Balance is very Fine tuned. Now yes the Balance isn't Perfect, and there are still some Degenerate Balancing Decisions in some people's Eyes, but overall it is in a very good spot, especially when you compare it to Previous games where Both the Universal Gameplay Elements and Character Balance were a Mess and resulted in some of the Most Broken Characters in Fighting game history.

Ultimate wasn't just about Bringing everything back, but it was also about Fine tuning what exactly they brought back, including the Characters/Veterans themselves in terms of Expressions, Animations, Balance, and Game plans, The actual Gameplay Elements of the game, The Stages, even some of the modes, etc.

Unlike Previous Smash games, I don't think Ultimate really needs a Shake up in terms of changing the Elements unlike Previous Smash games, so I think it can focus on Expanding the Game that's already there with Quality of Life Changes and Additions to Content. Gameplay Additions would be Nice, but I actually don't think is needed.

Nintendo does love adding Gameplay Elements to Sequels or Expansions, but as Splatoon 3 and BOTW2 is showing (Even if we don't have that much footage of either, especially the latter), They especially now are willing to keep to what previous Games have established. I think this is more true in Today's Gaming Industry. Development Costs have Skyrocketed from the Past days, and it's only gonna keep Rising and Rising, along with the Expectations of what games need these days. Sakurai and Harada I believed talked about this very thing on Harada's Bar

I know Pokemon Comparisons have been made, and there is some truth to arguments made about it, but I think there is different variables in Smash and Pokemon's Case

-Sword and Shield was really the First Mainline Console Pokemon game I can think of, so the Transition to that form of Development is something to consider. The Sacrifices of Sword and Shield were painful, but with the task already of having to have a New Foundation, it was needed. Going into the Next Smash, there's not really a "Necessary reason" to have to change the Formula or Developed Base as of now

I also don't see the Next Console after the Switch being such a High Upgrade over the Switch that it would require Restructuring the Base Assets of Smash Ultimate. It's not like we going to Xbox Series X, PS5, or PC levels of Power I would think.

-While Sword and Shield did sell Well to the Casuals, managing to top 20 Million, I don't think that means that Nintendo can just get away with anything

Looking at the Sales of Past games, and the Sales of Sword and Shield, it is obvious the Hardcore Crowd did have an effect on the Sales of Sword and Shield. Pokemon games on the 3DS were, besides Mario Kart, the Highest Selling games. Outsold Smash 3DS and Animal Crossing New Leaf. Now Sword and Shield got beat by Smash Ultimate, BOTW, and New Horizons. Granted BOTW and Smash are older games, but Pokemon Sun and Moon was able to beat Smash 3DS despite being out for less amount of Time, and there's no Excuse with New Horizons

It's also worth noting that Sword and Shield is likely a lot of People's First Pokemon Game. This is the First Mainline Pokemon Game on a Console like System. People that don't pay Attention to Handhelds might not have Played Pokemon before, but might have had this chance now.

-I really do think that the Characters of Smash matter more than the Pokemon in Pokemon. For one, Since there's much less characters (Playable) in Smash than in Pokemon, the Cutting of one character in Smash is gonna mean more than a Cutting of One Pokemon. The Characters in Smash also mean much more to the Gameplay of Smash than Specific Pokemon do to the Pokemon Experience I Imagine. The Characters in Smash more change up how you Approach the Gameplay than any Individual Pokemon.

Pokemon can introduce Completely new Pokemon to the game and such. The thing is that Smash is working with Already Established characters of their own, so when you have a Scenario where you're Cuttings someone like Snake, that's potential audience that you just lost. The Crossover over Nature of Smash is the biggest reason for it's Success, and all the Fanbases that Crossover.




I'll mention couple of my takes

Sega: Another Sonic Character is definitely the King here, no Questions asked. I acknowledge that Puyo Puyo, Yakuza, SMT, and Phantasy start are Franchises, and SMTV could be the game that boost up it's Franchise like what Persona 5 did, but those franchises aren't the ones that are getting Movies and Netflix Shows, and despite Sonic's Games being in inconsistent Quality, they continue to sell reasonably well and is among the Main pillars of Sega's Revenue. Characters like Eggman (More recently), Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles are also among the most requested characters

Capcom: I think Monster Hunter is done in terms of getting a Fighter, I do believe that Capcom wants the Monster to shine through the most rather than the Hunter. However I think they could try to Attempt RE again for the Next game If they aren't already in the process and/or Finished with that, and if they succeed in that, I think RE would be the Choice here, not Dante

Also I'm gonna be perfectly Honest, I'm unsure if they would manage to Make Dante in the Base game if the Next Smash game. If there's one character I think Absolutely has to be DLC due to Developmental reasons, it would be Dante. I don't think they would go the Sora route and Simplify him for Smash, but go in the Complete Opposite Direction and make him the Complex Beast he is in DMC.

What I honestly could see happening is if they must have a DMC Character in Base, they would go with Nero. He's the Forefront of DMCV, The Highest Selling DMC Game, he is a Popular character, and His moveset would definitly have Uniqueness, but would also be Simple enough to Implement and Balance. It also would be more Fresh since Unlike Dante, Nero hasn't been in a Fighting game before. They could then Save Dante and Vergil for DLC once they already Roped in the DMC Fanbase


Namco: I could see Lloyd, but I also think Yuri, and now recently, Alphen and what's her Name (I forgot) from Tales of Arise could be the Characters for Tales of. Tales of Arise is looking to be the game that brings Tales of to the Mainstream more than any other game

Even then, I could see Agumon because Digimon is Digimon after all.

SNK: I honestly could see a Situation where Iori gets in over Kyo, because People love Iori and think he is Brillant, including Sakurai himself.

Disney: I still do think Mickey Mouse could honestly be a thing, and might actually have been a Stipulation for having Sora in the game, because I think Disney themselves know Mickey going against Mario would be a Big deal, and Video Games is the Biggest Entertainment market over Flim and stuff.
what’s her name (I Forgot)
Shionne? She’s the sniper
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
8,768
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Honestly? Go ahead with major roster cuts, so long as it brings us substantial new content. Ultimate will always exist, and I'm sure everyone from the new games will be ported to Brawl modding (they're already working on Sora). I'd rather Nintendo focus on new stuff, be it new characters or new modes. Besides, there's no reason a character can't just miss a game and come back in the next one.
 
Top Bottom