• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
2,372
Location
Right Behind You
Personally I only advocate for Ultimate DX because even if I would gladly sweep a lot of content (Great Cave Offensive, Isabelle, WoL, etc) I know very well that there are other people who likes those content and it would be sad for them that things they like get sweeped. I would feel the same if things that I like (Street Fighter, Fatal Fury, Tekken, Persona or Castlevania content for example) get sweeped too.
 
Last edited:

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
474
Personally I only advocate for Ultimate DX because even if I would gladly sweep a lot of content (Great Cave Offensive, Isabelle, WoL, etc) I know very well that there are other people who likes those content and it would be sad for them that things they like get sweeped. I would feel the same if things that I like (Street Fighter, Fatal Fury, Tekken, Persona or Castlevania content for example) get sweeped too.
Yeah for me it's the Square Enix trio of Cloud, Sephiroth and Sora getting swept that worries me. Especially Cloud because that's like MY guy in Smash. Easily my legitimate main though I like to play other characters for fun. First time I ever got a big character I wanted in the game. I voted for him on the ballot (Crash Bandicoot too!) and I'm just so attached to the character with FFVll being one of like one of the earliest games I'd ever beaten as a child. I ordered the guidebook over the phone and everything. That game was borderline the book that got me reading. Loved the story obviously and became a Final Fantasy fan in general afterward (haven't played anything below 6 though) and man just writing all that out there really reminds me of how cool Smash is for me. Banjo and Kazooie was my first video game ever and THE first video game I'd ever beaten and getting them in Smash is truly incredible. Them potentially getting swept is almost as big of a deal as losing Cloud because of that.

Obviously there's other content that'd I'd hate to lose but I'm most worried about the SE boiz because that's the most likely out of all the content I'm endeared to that'd potentially get cut.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,161
Yeah for me it's the Square Enix trio of Cloud, Sephiroth and Sora getting swept that worries me. Especially Cloud because that's like MY guy in Smash. Easily my legitimate main though I like to play other characters for fun. First time I ever got a big character I wanted in the game. I voted for him on the ballot (Crash Bandicoot too!) and I'm just so attached to the character with FFVll being one of like one of the earliest games I'd ever beaten as a child. I ordered the guidebook over the phone and everything. That game was borderline the book that got me reading. Loved the story obviously and became a Final Fantasy fan in general afterward (haven't played anything below 6 though) and man just writing all that out there really reminds me of how cool Smash is for me. Banjo and Kazooie was my first video game ever and THE first video game I'd ever beaten and getting them in Smash is truly incredible. Them potentially getting swept is almost as big of a deal as losing Cloud because of that.

Obviously there's other content that'd I'd hate to lose but I'm most worried about the SE boiz because that's the most likely out of all the content I'm endeared to that'd potentially get cut.
Yeah. With the rumors of Sony buying Square Enix the SE reps are the most likely characters to be cut from the next Smash game.
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
2,372
Location
Right Behind You
I don't feel Sony has an actual interest for SE tbh, especially since they are more interesed actually in appeal more to the western audience than anything and even if SE also has western appeal the fact that they selled their western IPs makes very obvious that they aren't that interesed.
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
33,449
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
Yeah for me it's the Square Enix trio of Cloud, Sephiroth and Sora getting swept that worries me. Especially Cloud because that's like MY guy in Smash. Easily my legitimate main though I like to play other characters for fun. First time I ever got a big character I wanted in the game. I voted for him on the ballot (Crash Bandicoot too!) and I'm just so attached to the character with FFVll being one of like one of the earliest games I'd ever beaten as a child. I ordered the guidebook over the phone and everything. That game was borderline the book that got me reading. Loved the story obviously and became a Final Fantasy fan in general afterward (haven't played anything below 6 though) and man just writing all that out there really reminds me of how cool Smash is for me. Banjo and Kazooie was my first video game ever and THE first video game I'd ever beaten and getting them in Smash is truly incredible. Them potentially getting swept is almost as big of a deal as losing Cloud because of that.

Obviously there's other content that'd I'd hate to lose but I'm most worried about the SE boiz because that's the most likely out of all the content I'm endeared to that'd potentially get cut.
For whatever it may be worth, even if the next game has substantial cuts, I absolutely think they'd at least try to get the SE crew back...Cloud especially, since he'd be a two time veteran at that point. Like even in a weird made up case where like, the budget only accounted for like five third parties at base, for some reason, I think they'd try to go for him.

Then again I suppose I'm more optimistic about Cloud's odds for next time than most of the other folks in the "there will be cuts" camp, but yeah.
 

Stratos

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
962
If Sony buys Square Enix then that could mean we will never see Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora or Heroes of Dragon Quest in the Super Smash Bros. series again. Although this is not certain.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,277
When was the last time acquisition rumor turned out true later? Most big gaming acquisitions have been slept on... and shocking.
FWIW, Jim Ryan recently reconfirmed that there are more acquisitions coming:


Along with some more... questionable decisions...
 

dream1ng

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
1,903
Acquisition rumors are just going to always exist from now on given that's now the common practice in the industry. Assuming Square doesn't get bought by Sony, I imagine they will try to get at least Cloud back as well. Past being a two-time veteran, he's a very, very popular character both in and outside Smash. I believe, iirc, he was the most played character online in 4. His popularity is probably part of the reason they went back for more FF7 with Sephiroth.

I would also guess that they'd try to hang on to Sora as well, given how popular he is. Not that they'd necessarily jettison Hero and Sephiroth, just that in the order of priority, I think Cloud and Sora would outrank them due to their resonance.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,149
Location
Scotland
If Sony buys Square Enix then that could mean we will never see Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora or Heroes of Dragon Quest in the Super Smash Bros. series again. Although this is not certain.
sony wouldnt gain control of sora though. it wouldnt make things easier but still
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
33,449
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
sony wouldnt gain control of sora though. it wouldnt make things easier but still
Square-Enix doesn't own Sora. Disney does.

Edit: lmao misread
 
Last edited:

Stratos

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
962
Nintendo however does not intend to acquire as is known any other company. However we do not know for how long it will be valid and if it will be valid forever.
 
Last edited:

dream1ng

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
1,903
Nintendo however does not intend to acquire as is known any other company. However we do not know for how long it will be valid and if it will be valid forever.
Nintendo operates on their own wavelength which only occasionally intersects with what the others do. It's not unfounded Nintendo would make an acquisition in the coming years, but it seems likelier they'd aim for an existing partner or a supplemental developer as opposed to some company that would shake up the industry and take a major third-party off the table.

Which is somewhat unfortunate because it seems inevitable that some of Nintendo's Japanese peers will start to get eaten by the companies who handle acquisitions differently, and, depending on the acquirer, Nintendo may lose their storied, if inconsistent, support. It raises the question whether if enough companies get bought out, would Nintendo eventually intervene and make a larger purchase of one of their frequent collaborators?
 

Stratos

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
962
Nintendo operates on their own wavelength which only occasionally intersects with what the others do. It's not unfounded Nintendo would make an acquisition in the coming years, but it seems likelier they'd aim for an existing partner or a supplemental developer as opposed to some company that would shake up the industry and take a major third-party off the table.

Which is somewhat unfortunate because it seems inevitable that some of Nintendo's Japanese peers will start to get eaten by the companies who handle acquisitions differently, and, depending on the acquirer, Nintendo may lose their storied, if inconsistent, support. It raises the question whether if enough companies get bought out, would Nintendo eventually intervene and make a larger purchase of one of their frequent collaborators?
You just asked an important question and generally with what you wrote to me I thought again I would say that Nintendo will not consider buying for example Capcom or Konami or any other big company.
 
Last edited:

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
474
I still stand by SEGA being the best big one for Nintendo to gobble up. Other than SEGA being really cool about mods and Nintendo being viciously anti-culture in that regard I'd be all for it because I think they'd fit really well together and it'd help to boost and expand Nintendo's productivity and portfolio respectively quite considerably in multiple ways.
 
Last edited:

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,303
While Nintendo is staying away from the major acquisitions for the most part, I don't exactly see them standing back should one of their notable partners/supporters be in danger of being bought. Capcom, Square Enix, Konami and Sega are uncertainties, but I do not see Nintendo standing back in the case of Bandai Namco. Not with Bandai Namco being a notable developer for Nintendo for games like the recent Smash Bros games, Pokemon(Pokken and New Pokemon Snap), Star Fox Assault, the Donkey Konga games, and the Mario Baseball games, not to mention they helped with ARMS and Mario Kart 8, Deluxe and Tour.

And they could still be making games for them, since it was one of their teams working on Metroid Prime 4 before Nintendo re-started the game and brought back Retro. They could also be helping with the new Mario Kart that's being developed, since they helped with 8, Deluxe and Tour. And Nintendo is one of Bandai Namco's bigger shareholders, being in their Top 10s.

I just think that out of the big Japanese companies, the only one I can't see them standing back on if they were in danger of being bought is Bandai Namco, since they are a very active and notable development partner for Nintendo and their games and series.
 
Last edited:

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,277
While Nintendo is staying away from the major acquisitions for the most part, I don't exactly see them standing back should one of their notable partners/supporters be in danger of being bought. Capcom, Square Enix, Konami and Sega are uncertainties, but I do not see Nintendo standing back in the case of Bandai Namco. Not with Bandai Namco being a notable developer for Nintendo for games like the recent Smash Bros games, Pokemon(Pokken and New Pokemon Snap), Star Fox Assault, the Donkey Konga games, and the Mario Baseball games, not to mention they helped with ARMS and Mario Kart 8, Deluxe and Tour.

And they could still be making games for them, since it was one of their teams working on Metroid Prime 4 before Nintendo re-started the game and brought back Retro. They could also be helping with the new Mario Kart that's being developed, since they helped with 8, Deluxe and Tour. And Nintendo is one of Bandai Namco's bigger shareholders, being in their Top 10s.

I just think that out of the big Japanese companies, the only one I can't see them standing back on if they were in danger of being bought is Bandai Namco, since they are a very active and notable development partner for Nintendo and their games and series.
I actually agree, but there might be ONE thing that makes Bandai Namco a bit hard to buy not just for Nintendo, but for anybody: apparently, Bandai Namco is a LOT bigger than people think it is. As in, the Bandai half alone does SO MUCH STUFF, not just gaming. Like, no joke, it'd be more likely for Bandai Namco to sell off their gaming division seperately to focus on other things than for them to sell themselves outright.

Though I do agree, they'd make a lot of sense for Nintendo.
 

Wunderwaft

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
3,463
I've been bored recently so I thought about how we're getting closer to the end of the Switch's life cycle, the system is over 5 years old after all. Previous Smash titles show that Nintendo gets a Smash Bros project plan finalized like a year or so before the release of their next console, so assuming this next Smash game isn't going to be something massively different then the plan should be greenlit in the coming year or two.

Well, that's assuming the next Smash game follows previous ones in terms of structural planning. Smash games release within the first two years of a console's life so if the next game is further away than that it does leave a question mark. There's also the case with Sakurai if he'll return, I think he will but there's always a chance he might be too busy with something else or whatever. I do wonder about that next title, especially with how Ultimate went beyond in performance.


Anyways this was just my random rambling......also it just hit me Microsoft is probably going to be the third party company with most characters speculated for next time. Them acquisitions really changed things.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,613
I actually agree, but there might be ONE thing that makes Bandai Namco a bit hard to buy not just for Nintendo, but for anybody: apparently, Bandai Namco is a LOT bigger than people think it is. As in, the Bandai half alone does SO MUCH STUFF, not just gaming. Like, no joke, it'd be more likely for Bandai Namco to sell off their gaming division seperately to focus on other things than for them to sell themselves outright.

Though I do agree, they'd make a lot of sense for Nintendo.
They basically have a monopoly on anime licenses. If you want your anime property adapted into game format you get them to do it.
 

Yamat08

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
312
As much as people wanted National Dex in Sword and Shield, I don't think, generally, that people wanted models ripped right from the 3DS in order to achieve it.
Except that that's exactly what Sword and Shield did anyway. The models may have the resolution scaled, but they're very much the exact same ones that've been used since Pokemon XY nearly 10 years ago, and it's all the more reason why many of us feel completely cheated out of the National Dex.


I feel the reverse for seemingly unimportant or unpopular content being missing like black Yoshi and coin smash finding myself yearning for content I can't access because it doesn't exist in Ultimate.
I mean, for what it's worth, the Craft Yoshi alt that replaced the black one is complete crap. Just a blatant advertisement that barely looks different from the default coloring. Though I wouldn't have much of a problem with it existing if not for the fact that it replaces a far superior alt. Of course, a simple solution to this would've been for Ultimate to not strictly tie every single Fighter to 8 alts with no room for exceptions (something I don't get, considering Brawl's Wario and Smash4's Little Mac managed to be such exceptions).


That's another wacky feature I'd absolutely adore. A legacy physics emulator. Play the game with any set of physics you want ranging from Melee, Brawl, Smash 4, Ultimate and of course Smash 6 whatever form it takes.
Yup. Should help to keep the Melee whiners at bay, and really, just so long as the Smash6 engine remains the standard for tournaments and random online, they probably don't even need to worry too much about balance.


I think it's being understated how much Smash's success on the market was a consequence of the game constantly getting bigger and bigger with each entry. It's not a tradition I see the fandom easily letting go of and that's even more especially pronounced after Ultimate with Everyone is Here giving the series its greatest success yet to the point it's the best-selling fighting game of all time.
Not only is Smash steeped in its own traditions, but Smash is a series all about having legacy characters in the first place, which makes every single member of the roster seem all the more crucial. All the more reason why the sheer magnitude of Everyone Is Here can not be underestimated. It's not even purely about characters with unique gameplay, either..... I mean, just look at Sakurai's comments about why Dr. Mario didn't just come back as an alt in Smash4, even though his playstyle already mostly existed in Mario (and even Luigi to an extent). And even characters like Pichu, Young/Toon Link, and Dark Pit doubtlessly have their fans, to say nothing of characters who actually do have unique functions like Corrin (no matter how divisive they may seem at a glance).

But yeah, like you, I'm left asking the simple question of what doing a reboot would actually accomplish. And even if some content doesn't return in the base game, I see no need to completely shut the door on them potentially returning as DLC (especially so long as there aren't complications like Smash4 trying to put everything onto a far weaker portable, and so long as all the third parties involved continue getting along). Frankly, given the sheer amount of content in base Ultimate, I'd find it perfectly understandable if Nintendo just decided to release Smash a la carte (though they kinda already do this with the DLC to a smaller degree), and I'm sure a good portion of fans would be perfectly willing to cover the extra costs if it meant having a complete experience like this again. If anything, the potential to restore Everyone Is Here would be a fantastic selling point for that DLC, all the more so since the base game could've had a chance to build its own identity rather than just re-using Ultimate's most outstanding feature from the outset.
 
Last edited:

Dan Quixote

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
1,106
Location
Florida
I've been bored recently so I thought about how we're getting closer to the end of the Switch's life cycle, the system is over 5 years old after all. Previous Smash titles show that Nintendo gets a Smash Bros project plan finalized like a year or so before the release of their next console, so assuming this next Smash game isn't going to be something massively different then the plan should be greenlit in the coming year or two.

Well, that's assuming the next Smash game follows previous ones in terms of structural planning. Smash games release within the first two years of a console's life so if the next game is further away than that it does leave a question mark. There's also the case with Sakurai if he'll return, I think he will but there's always a chance he might be too busy with something else or whatever. I do wonder about that next title, especially with how Ultimate went beyond in performance.


Anyways this was just my random rambling......also it just hit me Microsoft is probably going to be the third party company with most characters speculated for next time. Them acquisitions really changed things.
Gosh you're right the timing lines up for the end of the Switch's life cycle to be soon if it's anything like previous consoles, but it sure doesn't FEEL like it's nearing the end does it? It's still selling and getting hella support. Maybe it's the pandemic pausing the whole industry for a couple years or something? Or maybe just a new cycle Nintendo's trying out.
 
Last edited:

Slime Scholar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
170
Regarding acquisitions rumors: most of them are driven by fanboyism and platform warring. Notice how it's always about Sony/Microsoft buying someone, but never other giants like NetEase or Tencent who have been just as busy scooping up publishers.

Not saying Square/Capcom/whoever won't be bought, but this stuff never leaks far in advance. Nobody knows.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
474
So it's safe to assume that Nintendo owns Boshi right? I know they must but it's never talked about. Despite Boshi falling into the realm of a Square original creation for the infamous game where they retained said characters I still can't imagine them being able to own what is essentially still Yoshi. If so it'd be really cool if Boshi could be an echo of Yoshi.

I mean, for what it's worth, the Craft Yoshi alt that replaced the black one is complete crap. Just a blatant advertisement that barely looks different from the default coloring. Though I wouldn't have much of a problem with it existing if not for the fact that it replaces a far superior alt. Of course, a simple solution to this would've been for Ultimate to not strictly tie every single Fighter to 8 alts with no room for exceptions (something I don't get, considering Brawl's Wario and Smash4's Little Mac managed to be such exceptions).
I don't mind the crafted alt so much but yeah it's pretty unimpressive. My brother who knows nothing about crafted world immediately commented that it looked like crap when he saw it. I think it's a perfectly serviceable alt. As much as it'd be pretty insignificant I'd really like a darker green Yoshi too. They'd transitioned him to a the brighter green he currently has for quite sometime but I'm a bigger fan of the darker green look on him though I like the new standard bright green version well enough because at the end of the day it's still Yoshi and everybody loves Yoshi.

I also massively agree about the 8 costume limit. So needlessly narrow of a scope. I really would like 16 to be the standard though with how long it takes for Ultimate to load its costumes I guess they decided to stick with only what was needed. Costumes could really give Smash a whole new incentive to play like Overwatch does.

Rare = new palette swap
Epic = texture design over palette swap
Legendary = costume change with articles of clothing added/changed dramatically like seasonal attire



Yup. Should help to keep the Melee whiners at bay, and really, just so long as the Smash6 engine remains the standard for tournaments and random online, they probably don't even need to worry too much about balance.
I gotta say though I do love me some Melee physics/tech. I recently got a 3DS that I went ahead and modded it and played some Smash 4 today though and I gotta say that despite Smash 4 not being what I'd like Smash to be (Ultimate was a stride in the correct direction) I still really appreciate how unique it is compared to the other entries. In fact all of them are really special in that regard. Brawl and Smash 4 are the most similar but even they're different.

It'd be extremely hilarious to emulate 64's physics in a modern Smash game though with the infinite hitsun hahahaha.

Not only is Smash steeped in its own traditions, but Smash is a series all about having legacy characters in the first place, which makes every single member of the roster seem all the more crucial. All the more reason why the sheer magnitude of Everyone Is Here can not be underestimated. It's not even purely about characters with unique gameplay, either..... I mean, just look at Sakurai's comments about why Dr. Mario didn't just come back as an alt in Smash4, even though his playstyle already mostly existed in Mario (and even Luigi to an extent). And even characters like Pichu, Young/Toon Link, and Dark Pit doubtlessly have their fans, to say nothing of characters who actually do have unique functions like Corrin (no matter how divisive they may seem at a glance).

But yeah, like you, I'm left asking the simple question of what doing a reboot would actually accomplish. And even if some content doesn't return in the base game, I see no need to completely shut the door on them potentially returning as DLC (especially so long as there aren't complications like Smash4 trying to put everything onto a far weaker portable, and so long as all the third parties involved continue getting along). Frankly, given the sheer amount of content in base Ultimate, I'd find it perfectly understandable if Nintendo just decided to release Smash a la carte (though they kinda already do this with the DLC to a smaller degree), and I'm sure a good portion of fans would be perfectly willing to cover the extra costs if it meant having a complete experience like this again. If anything, the potential to restore Everyone Is Here would be a fantastic selling point for that DLC, all the more so since the base game could've had a chance to build its own identity rather than just re-using Ultimate's most outstanding feature from the outset.
I agree. I really feel like Smash should be above cuts (mostly when it comes to characters obviously though I hate losing any content) or at the very least work exceedingly hard to avoid them. I know it's unrealistic but is it? Ultimate DX kind of serves as my platform for believing it's not unrealistic. There're so many ways they could go about it even being able to include a humungous package at launch with the double release strategy I elaborated on a page or 2 back. They could go about it the way you said by almost getting everything back from Ultimate and then drip-feeding missing content back through DLC and/or free updates. And both of these strategies could deploy a continuous developmental strategy from the onset if they wanted to.

I'm gonna go on a wishful rant here and I honestly get that it's very unlikely and absurd to an extent but gosh I'd love to see Ultimate DX reach its highest potential. Double release package + DLC/free updates for the entire Switch successor's lifecycle post-launch. It would basically generally speaking become the greatest video game ever made by default. Like I feel that because ONLY Smash 6 can be Ultimate DX that it essentially really needs to be Ultimate DX. Starting with Ultimate + DLC as your day 0 with a AAA budget of equal or greater value as the original game would be a massive achievement dwarfing even Ultimate's. I think it's really the only way to top it. I kind of wonder about Sakurai's statement about "building on the record of Ultimate" after Banjo's presentation. I find it odd that not only did we only get 2 seasons, a very small amount for the best-selling fighting game of all time when compared to other fighting games, but DLC also slowed down to 3 characters a year after getting 5 for the first year (6 if you count Plant but I don't).

I'm just postulating here but I think maybe, just maybe Sakurai had the choice between continuing Ultimate for more seasons with a limiting DLC budget or getting to work on Ultimate DX for the Switch successor console with a standard budget and he chose the latter. Again I'm just pulling that from my own biased intuition so nobody rip on me please but yeah obviously I'd love if Sakurai and team were working on Ultimate DX as we speak. I also know Sakurai has said it's unlikely but maybe he didn't know or maybe he just... lied? To throw off superfans like us? I also know he let go of the remainder of the Ultimate team after Sora and said he didn't know about Smash's future. Maybe he did let the team go for a break and then reassembled them when it was time to get back to work? Maybe he didn't know about the future of Smash but maybe the talks with Nintendo went well and he got the bigger budget he's always passive-aggressively alluding to desiring?

I know it's likely he's working on something else entirely and I think he even alluded to a project recently? Surely we can't really say one way or another what it exactly is but I think people were saying it's a book potentially? Oh well we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Last edited:

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,635
Chuderz Chuderz and SPEN18 SPEN18 :

I'll reiterate my opinion on this "Ultimate re-release vs reboot" debate:


There IS a way to still keep most of Ultimate's content AND make the experience distinct from Ultimate.

A re-release would make the series even MORE stagnant than Call of Duty or 3DS/early Switch Pokémon. But Smash also isn't the kind of series like Final Fantasy or Persona where the universe and gameplay is essentially wiped clean and built from there.

Like I said before about the industry's penchant for "consistently bigger and better":
That's a big problem with both the whole video game industry and gamers nowadays.

For how much gamers like to bash Call of Duty and New Super Mario Bros. for being the same thing every time, both they and developers seem to be stuck in this mindset of "every video game sequel needs to be bigger and better than the last."

Sure, with the advancement of technology, that should be true to some extent, but it feels like a lot of games nowadays are so committed to "bigger and better" that they not only forget they have to make the experience distinct, but their ambitions ultimately outpace technology, and so they often have to settle on blatant "padding" content like fetch quests and repetitive missions because they run out of time and resources.

Sure Nintendo has Mario Kart and Pokémon, but I do appreciate that Nintendo's major franchises in general balance making sequels feel like new experiences with making them logical, bigger iterations on previous installments. Only maybe FromSoft and Atlus come close to Nintendo's "sequeling".
"Bigger and better" has its place, don't get me wrong, but the reliance on it as a perpetual standard rather than something that's balanced with making a distinct sequel experience is a big problem with developers AND audiences.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
4,026
Regarding acquisitions rumors: most of them are driven by fanboyism and platform warring. Notice how it's always about Sony/Microsoft buying someone, but never other giants like NetEase or Tencent who have been just as busy scooping up publishers.

Not saying Square/Capcom/whoever won't be bought, but this stuff never leaks far in advance. Nobody knows.
You can really sense this with the constant talk of Sony buying Konami being clearly driven by a desire for the latter's IP's becoming active again. This in spite of the fact that Konami's current gaming business model (largely modestly budgeted Japan oriented titles with a lot of profits coming from Switch releases) is fairly at odds with Sony's (many AAA Western focused games while demonstrating inconsistent interest for mid-level games back home).

As far as the Switch's life cycle, I still think around holiday 2024 is when we'll see the next console. Basically another two or so years of fairly strong releases (next Zelda, MP4, potentially another mainline FE, Mario or DK title) before things start winding down in preparation for the next system.
 
Last edited:

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
474
Any piece of content that gets scrapped doesn't mean anything was gained or that it makes the game stagnant in any way which seems to be your assumption/assertion here.

Keeping some or even most of Ultimate say even like 80% as your day 0 base doesn't magically generate any content and is objectively worse than starting with 100% Ultimate as your day 0 base. Sure there's work that needs to be done on that 20% of content that'll take time and resources but when compared to the investment in time and resources for starting a piece of content from scratch the return on investment of said time/resources going to established content offers yields that are tremendously superior and thus very much worth the investment/priority when starting Smash 6 I believe.

I don't understand how using Ultimate completely makes it stagnant either as opposed to using only some of it. Like I keep saying I'm advocating for an Ultimate DX worked on like a true Smash 6 and I keep getting criticized by you like I'm hoping for a minimal effort port and it's kind of annoying at this point. Whether either of us think that's likely or unlikely is an entirely separate matter.

And finally I legitimately have no idea still what'd be gained supposedly? I ask all the time and it just seems like it's preconceived as a given that a game started from the ground up brings something entirely incompatible with Ultimate to the table and I'd like to know what it is because I fail to see it. If this fabled content is compatible with 80% of Ultimate then wouldn't it be that much better with 100% of Ultimate? And if it's so incredible that the game has to be entirely scrapped to include it then I'd like to know what it might be. I'm not expecting reboot advocates to be foreseers or anything like that but they must have some general idea of what it is.

I truly think that an Ultimate DX worked on like a true Smash 6 can do borderline EVERYTHING a reboot can do as good if not better and there some things only an Ultimate DX can do like retain its own content and incorporate missing Smash 4 content and Brawl models. Of the things a reboot could seemingly do better like graphics I think an Ultimate DX at worst could do them about 50% as good. The bump in graphics ain't worth it and that's especially the case with a game like Smash where graphics aren't really that important.
 
Last edited:

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,635
Any piece of content that gets scrapped doesn't mean anything was gained or that it makes the game stagnant in any way which seems to be your assumption/assertion here.

Keeping some or even most of Ultimate say even like 80% as your day 0 base doesn't magically generate any content and is objectively worse than starting with 100% Ultimate as your day 0 base. Sure there's work that needs to be done on that 20% of content that'll take time and resources but when compared to the investment in time and resources for starting a piece of content from scratch the return on investment of said time/resources going to established content offers yields that are tremendously superior and thus very much worth the investment/priority when starting Smash 6 I believe.
I'm in support of using Ultimate in such a way that everything (licensing issues aside) can be brought back. I just want the things to be reused to include models, animations, and particles and to exclude the whole core gameplay.

I don't understand how using Ultimate completely makes it stagnant either as opposed to using only some of it. Like I keep saying I'm advocating for an Ultimate DX worked on like a true Smash 6 and I keep getting criticized by you like I'm hoping for a minimal effort port and it's kind of annoying at this point. Whether either of us think that's likely or unlikely is an entirely separate matter.
Both sides of this debate are using very confusing terminology tbh. "Ultimate DX/2.0/whatever" does imply that it's a re-release whether you like it or not, and "reboot" does imply that it's going to be a ground-up revamp with many characters and stages rebuilt completely, right down to their design. Neither option is good, and I'm just willing to refer to the next Smash as a "sequel", because that's literally what it is.

And finally I legitimately have no idea still what'd be gained supposedly? I ask all the time and it just seems like it's preconceived as a given that a game started from the ground up brings something entirely incompatible with Ultimate to the table and I'd like to know what it is because I fail to see it. If this fabled content is compatible with 80% of Ultimate then wouldn't it be that much better with 100% of Ultimate? And if it's so incredible that the game has to be entirely scrapped to include it then I'd like to know what it might be. I'm not expecting reboot advocates to be foreseers or anything like that but they must have some general idea of what it is.

I truly think that an Ultimate DX worked on like a true Smash 6 can do borderline EVERYTHING a reboot can do as good if not better and there some things only an Ultimate DX can do like retain its own content and incorporate missing Smash 4 content and Brawl models. Of the things a reboot could seemingly do better like graphics I think an Ultimate DX at worst could do them about 50% as good. The bump in graphics ain't worth it and that's especially the case with a game like Smash where graphics aren't really that important.
Well, we do know that Ultimate itself had its engine updated to allow for Steve to mine the stages, so you have some point there. That said, I'm more in favor of just retaining all (if not just 85-95%) of the characters and stages. There's a lot of things about Ultimate that I won't miss if they were cut, like the horribly repetitive Adventure Mode. And I actually appreciate that Classic Mode in each Smash is different from the last. I'd also like to see Spirits be revamped so that they at least have the descriptions that made trophies so fun; just make them "Spirit Cards".

But yeah, the biggest thing I want Ultimate's sequel to have is something to add to the core gameplay. Not to turn it into Power Stone or anything, but I'd like to see them add new toys to both new and old characters rather than keep playing in the same general paradigm since Melee. Make it like the Z-moves in Pokémon but an actual gameplay standard from that point forward.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,726
These are some big brain picks for more Disney reps in the future smash games
Let’s not forget about Lightning McQueen either. Especially considering Cars got an entire series of games unlike the others.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,635
These are some big brain picks for more Disney reps in the future smash games
Wherever you stand on that debate, I think we just need to accept that every possible definition of "video game character" is imperfect.
  • First appeared in a video game? Lucario isn't a video game character.
  • Franchise started in video games? Joker isn't a video game character.
  • Best known for video games rather than other media? Well, all of the characters in Smash currently are best known for video games, but they would need to include characters like Geralt of Rivia and Turok. Even then, this definition is extremely subjective whether you like it or not.
That said, those characters in that Tweet aren't going to be in Smash anytime soon. Or if they will be, Sakurai definitely won't make the first move.
 
Last edited:

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
33,449
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
Let’s not forget about Lightning McQueen either. Especially considering Cars got an entire series of games unlike the others.
That's the funniest part: the Cars novelization came out before the video game.

Lightning McQueen is a therefore a book character.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,515
So is Joker since SMT started as a book (light novel?) series.
At that point, you're just playing a degree of separation game.

Just to be clear: The first Shin Megami Tensei game is technically an original story, it's just heavily inspired by ATLUS's previous adaptations of the Digital Devil Story novels by Aya Ni****ani.

Going into Persona, it's not even considered a spin-off of the SMT in Japan, and it is usually considered its own franchise.
 

Stratos

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
962
Only Ash from the anime Pokémon and Dai from the anime and manga series Dragon Quest have not appeared in the Super Smash Bros. series, although Ash has appeared in a video game in the Pokémon Puzzle League. On the other hand, Dai did not appear in any video game in the Dragon Quest series.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,635
At that point, you're just playing a degree of separation game.

Just to be clear: The first Shin Megami Tensei game is technically an original story, it's just heavily inspired by ATLUS's previous adaptations of the Digital Devil Story novels by Aya Ni****ani.

Going into Persona, it's not even considered a spin-off of the SMT in Japan, and it is usually considered its own franchise.
I guess it's like Bravely Default being considered its own thing despite lifting classes directly from the Job-based Final Fantasy titles and Default and Second having elements directly from an actual FF spinoff.
 
Top Bottom