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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
3,148
Microsoft has the power to make an entire genre of gaming exclusive to their platform. I don't know if that's something they would do.
I’m not really expecting it but the fact that they allowed Banjo (and Steve) in Smash as well as Banjo & Kazooie on the Switch online service gives me some hope that it’s at least possible.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
16,624
Location
Scotland
He'd be awesome as a third addition. I love earthbound. As an npc tho he is so annoying! I haven't quite figured out how he works in the level, like most of the time someone else gets him to fight for them but once in a blue moon he'll be on my side. But as an Ike player that level is already tough and he just always seems to gimp me lol.
I wanna say it's the first person who attacks him, he sides with, but its been awhile...
its whoever touches them first
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
331
How many synonyms for fight are left to subtitle the next Smash?
I wonder if we'll ever go back to that naming scheme?

They could do Fight! itself or Clash! or maybe Collision Course! or Battlebout! or Knockout! or Matchpoint! or Rumble!

Then there's edgier ones like WAR! though even I think that'd be a bridge too far for Japan.

My personal favorite though is RIOT! I want to hear a hyped up Smash announcer guy similar to Melee's shout SUPA SMMMMMMMASSSSSH BRRRRROTHERS!!!!! RIOT! Have all the cast posing on the cover looking OG strikers levels of pissed off yet composed and ready for action in front of a cool dark backdrop that highlights how much the entire Smash cast is suffering on the inside for simply doing what they love like they're a cool and yet brooding alternative rock band.
Yeah, I’m actually fine with Microsoft keeping RARE. What I actually want is for them to make RARE’s games multiplatform with Nintendo’s consoles. I never really owned an X-Box so I don’t get a chance to play their games anymore. It would be nice to have the chance to play them again without having to buy a third console since I already buy Nintendo and Sony. If their major characters also made it into Smash, that’s all I could really ask for. At the same time, I can understand why Microsoft wouldn’t want to do that for that exact reason, which would decrease potential sales of their console (although I’m not sure who is still buying X-Box for RARE games at this point).
There's a not totally 0% chance that Microsoft would be willing to share some Rare reboot games like a potential modern Banjo and Conker game like they did with Cuphead and Ori though even these hypothetical games have to actually be made and then they'd both be a massive step up from Cuphead and Ori on top of that so I don't know but I definitely know that if a company did get to share in those potential goodies it'd be Nintendo.

Conversely I can't even entertain the faintest notion of the Perfect Dark game or even a moderately budgeted Killer Instinct game ever leaving their Xbox/PC hardware ecospheres.

Other than that I guess you'd be stuck getting Gamepass on PC or hoping it eventually comes to Nintendo and/or Sony consoles.
 

Gengar84

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
3,148
I wonder if we'll ever go back to that naming scheme?

They could do Fight! itself or Clash! or maybe Collision Course! or Battlebout! or Knockout! or Matchpoint! or Rumble!

Then there's edgier ones like WAR! though even I think that'd be a bridge too far for Japan.

My personal favorite though is RIOT! I want to hear a hyped up Smash announcer guy similar to Melee's shout SUPA SMMMMMMMASSSSSH BRRRRROTHERS!!!!! RIOT! Have all the cast posing on the cover looking OG strikers levels of pissed off yet composed and ready for action in front of a cool dark backdrop that highlights how much the entire Smash cast is suffering on the inside for simply doing what they love like they're a cool and yet brooding alternative rock band.

There's a not totally 0% chance that Microsoft would be willing to share some Rare reboot games like a potential modern Banjo and Conker game like they did with Cuphead and Ori though even these hypothetical games have to actually be made and then they'd both be a massive step up from Cuphead and Ori on top of that so I don't know but I definitely know that if a company did get to share in those potential goodies it'd be Nintendo.

Conversely I can't even entertain the faintest notion of the Perfect Dark game or even a moderately budgeted Killer Instinct game ever leaving their Xbox/PC hardware ecospheres.

Other than that I guess you'd be stuck getting Gamepass on PC or hoping it eventually comes to Nintendo and/or Sony consoles.
That’s the thing that sucks about console exclusivity. I’m always going to be a Nintendo gamer first and foremost. I’ve traditionally gone with PlayStation as my second console because I love JRPG’s but that means I’ve missed out on RARE all these years. Now that Microsoft bought Blizzard, it started pushing me towards going with them over Sony this Gen but if the rumors of Sony buying Square are true, I’ll have to miss out on RARE yet again and this time lose Blizzard too, which has made some of my other favorite games.
 

Stratos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
492
Maybe it's something I should not write, let alone something like this will happen, but what happen if Sony envy the collaboration between Nintendo and Microsoft and decide to ask to put its own characters in the Super Smash Bros. series? I know that Sony had made the PlayStation All-Stars series, but only two games and for this reason it to decided to work with them as well. I know this will not happen but it is a thought.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
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Location
Scotland
Maybe it's something I should not write, let alone something like this will happen, but what happen if Sony envy the collaboration between Nintendo and Microsoft and decide to ask to put its own characters in the Super Smash Bros. series? I know that Sony had made the PlayStation All-Stars series, but only two games and for this reason it to decided to work with them as well. I know this will not happen but it is a thought.
the platform fighting trend is catching so you never know
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,522
NNID
TCT~Phantom

Me and a few others on the writing team did this fun little draft, trying to pick out the next Microsoft rep. An article on a few Honorable Mentions that did not make the cut is also in the works for next week.
 

Laniv

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
1,490
Maybe it's something I should not write, let alone something like this will happen, but what happen if Sony envy the collaboration between Nintendo and Microsoft and decide to ask to put its own characters in the Super Smash Bros. series? I know that Sony had made the PlayStation All-Stars series, but only two games and for this reason it to decided to work with them as well. I know this will not happen but it is a thought.
Honestly, I'd rather have Sony take a shot at a PlayStation All-Stars sequel
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
3,027
Honestly, a lot of companies (not just licensed stuff like Multiversus) could pull off a platform fighter of their own. Given what Microsoft now owns, they might be in an even better position than Sony in creating one hell of a crossover fighting title if they so chose. Rare, Activision, Blizzard, Bethesda, id Software, etc; the pieces are certainly there.
 
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Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,708
Location
Icerim Mountains
Pokemon Home gave me an idea... Imagine a series of action games with customized fighters from the Smash series, handful at a time and placed either canonically or not within their respective homeworlds, with a central Home app there to import these various custom fighters into other games. So like start with a FE game where you'd create your version of Ike or whatever and then later being able to import him to a Metroid game or an Earthbound game or a Mario game .... I guess 3rd parties would be more difficult for this hypothetical but it just kind of tumbled around in my head while messing around with Pokemon Home.
 

Gengar84

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
3,148
Honestly, a lot of companies (not just licensed stuff like Multiversus) could pull off a platform fighter of their own. Given what Microsoft now owns, they might be in an even better position than Sony in creating one hell of a crossover fighting title if they so chose. Rare, Activision, Blizzard, Bethesda, id Software, etc; the pieces are certainly there.
I made a Nintendo Vs. Microsoft roster a while back on here just for fun. If we’re just talking about a Microsoft specific platform fighter, just ignore the left half of the image, which were the Nintendo characters:

1653527027937.jpeg


Microsoft:

1) Master Chief
2) The Arbiter
3) Steve
4) Marcus Fenix
5) General RAAM
6) Ori
7) Cuphead (with Mugman alt)
8) Fable Avatar
9) Crackdown Agent
10) Blinx
11) The Battletoads (alts)
12) The Dark Queen
13) Fulgore
14) Black Orchid
15) Hisako
16) Banjo
17) Gruntilda
18) Conker
19) Joanna Dark
20) Kameo
21) Crash Bandicoot
22) Coco Bandicoot
23) Dr. Neo Cortex
24) Spyro
25) The Lich King
26) Thrall Hellscream
27) Illidan Stormrage
28) Sylvanas Windrunner
29) Sarah Kerrigan
30) Jim Raynor
31) Zeratul
32) Diablo
33) Tracer
34) D.Va
35) Reinhardt
36) Doom Slayer
37) Dovakhiin
38) B.J. Blaskowicz
39) Corvo Attano
40) Vault Boy
41) Raz
42) Clippy
 

dream1ng

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
770
I made a Nintendo Vs. Microsoft roster a while back on here just for fun. If we’re just talking about a Microsoft specific platform fighter, just ignore the left half of the image, which were the Nintendo characters:

View attachment 353359

Microsoft:

1) Master Chief
2) The Arbiter
3) Steve
4) Marcus Fenix
5) General RAAM
6) Ori
7) Cuphead (with Mugman alt)
8) Fable Avatar
9) Crackdown Agent
10) Blinx
11) The Battletoads (alts)
12) The Dark Queen
13) Fulgore
14) Black Orchid
15) Hisako
16) Banjo
17) Gruntilda
18) Conker
19) Joanna Dark
20) Kameo
21) Crash Bandicoot
22) Coco Bandicoot
23) Dr. Neo Cortex
24) Spyro
25) The Lich King
26) Thrall Hellscream
27) Illidan Stormrage
28) Sylvanas Windrunner
29) Sarah Kerrigan
30) Jim Raynor
31) Zeratul
32) Diablo
33) Tracer
34) D.Va
35) Reinhardt
36) Doom Slayer
37) Dovakhiin
38) B.J. Blaskowicz
39) Corvo Attano
40) Vault Boy
41) Raz
42) Clippy
Just keep in mind Cuphead isn't actually a Microsoft character, they just own the rights to the game, like Nintendo with Bayo 2 and 3.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,360
Honestly, I'd rather have Sony take a shot at a PlayStation All-Stars sequel
PlayStation All-Stars probably needs a full-on retool rather than a reboot or sequel. They should probably discard the "All-Stars" name entirely and make it a health-based platform fighter to make it clear that All-Stars was a one-off failure and whatever comes next is the REAL beginning of SIE's crossover franchise.

Pokemon Home gave me an idea... Imagine a series of action games with customized fighters from the Smash series, handful at a time and placed either canonically or not within their respective homeworlds, with a central Home app there to import these various custom fighters into other games. So like start with a FE game where you'd create your version of Ike or whatever and then later being able to import him to a Metroid game or an Earthbound game or a Mario game .... I guess 3rd parties would be more difficult for this hypothetical but it just kind of tumbled around in my head while messing around with Pokemon Home.
That would only really work with toys to life, and that's a dead fad.
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
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Location
Right Behind You
It's common to talk about what new characters we could see in the next game, but who do you guys think would be cut out?, I mean unless they make a port (that probably would only happen when Sakurai either lose all connections to Nintendo or dies looking that it was a posibility before) a lot of Ultimate's roster would not appear again.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
5,715
It's common to talk about what new characters we could see in the next game, but who do you guys think would be cut out?, I mean unless they make a port (that probably would only happen when Sakurai either lose all connections to Nintendo or dies looking that it was a posibility before) a lot of Ultimate's roster would not appear again.
Pretty much. Ultimate was only able to have the large roster it had because it reused a lot of assets from past Smash games. I think that it is possible that the roster does get cut down and many characters end up on the chopping block.
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Right Behind You
Yeah, Smash 4 helped to make Ultimate possible, but I find unlikely that the next console shares the same estructure of Switch (since Switch had less time to be developed with the 4-ish years of the Wii U lifespan), so maybe the reuse of assets wouldn't be an option
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
5,715
Yeah, Smash 4 helped to make Ultimate possible, but I find unlikely that the next console shares the same estructure of Switch (since Switch had less time to be developed with the 4-ish years of the Wii U lifespan), so maybe the reuse of assets wouldn't be an option
Yeah, and since the console might have cross-platform compatibility with the Switch an Ultimate port might not make sense because you might already be able to play Ultimate on the new system as-is.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
3,027
Assuming the Switch successor is backwards compatible, a quasi reboot of Smash might simply be a practical option in some ways. If the sense is that Ultimate's scale can't be topped, a sequel that goes in a different direction is at least a bit of a safe path, given that Ultimate would still be playable on the Switch 2.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
5,715
Assuming the Switch successor is backwards compatible, a quasi reboot of Smash might simply be a practical option in some ways. If the sense is that Ultimate's scale can't be topped, a sequel that goes in a different direction is at least a bit of a safe path, given that Ultimate would still be playable on the Switch 2.
It would be better overall if the game didn't try to top Ultimate because you just can't.
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Lord
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Sep 24, 2020
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I would like a reboot, the main problem would be the comparisons, it would have the same factor of games like Street Fighter 3 or Art of Fighting 3 (why both are third? idk) that tries to make things better but also throws away most of the things of the previous games making people angry.
 

92MilesPrower

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
661
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Stuck in the Special Zone
All I'll say on the topic of cuts and returning characters is that whether the next Smash game (if one does happen) is a reboot or a continuation from Ultimate, this list of 1st party characters are who I firmly believe will 100% make the roster because of legacy, popularity, and relevancy:
:ultmario::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus::ultyoshi::ultkirby::ultfox::ultpikachu::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultzelda::ultmarth::ultganondorf::ultmetaknight::ultpit::ultwario::ultkingdedede::ultolimar::ultinkling::ultmiifighters:
These characters represent franchises that are definitely making the cut, but if major cuts happen, only one from each could make the cut and they have arguably equal chances:
:ultvillager::ultisabelle: and :ultshulk::ultpyra::ultmythra:
If we do get confirmation of 3rd party characters, then it's a safe bet to see these guys return:
:ultsonic::ultmegaman::ultpacman::ultryu::ultken: (Ken would only return if Ryu is base roster again rather than DLC)

Fox, Pit and Olimar are all debatable in terms of relevancy, but their franchises still have major points in terms of legacy and popularity. Marth is still very much the poster boy of the Fire Emblem franchise, despite his popularity likely being eclipsed by the Awakening cast. Pokémon definitely would have more characters, but it's too much of a debate over who would make the cut. The Smash 4 3rd parties + Ryu and Ken are all from companies who clearly have good relations with Nintendo, while other companies can have negotiations for their characters fall through, and the other Sega and Namco characters can definitely be swapped out, while these 4/5 remain, being pretty much pillars of gaming history and insanely popular.
 
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Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,360
I would like a reboot, the main problem would be the comparisons, it would have the same factor of games like Street Fighter 3 or Art of Fighting 3 (why both are third? idk) that tries to make things better but also throws away most of the things of the previous games making people angry.
I've been saying this a lot, but I honestly feel there's at least some room for Smash's core gameplay to expand without taking away or replacing anything up to this point. This is why I'm in favor of a universal "super meter" mechanic for all characters, not just Cloud, Mac, and (kinda) Terry.
 

Chuderz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
331
I think if the Switch successor is backward compatible with the Switch then I think Ultimate DX reusing and building upon the previous foundation would be entirely possible. I think idea of the successor system's core structure being incompatible with Ultimate's core structure and the idea of the successor system also being backward compatible with the Switch at the same time are contradictory. That is to say that I think if the successor system is backward compatible then the reuse design philosophy is very much viable.

I don't know that for sure because I'm not involved in that kind of practice and very willing to be explained to why I'm wrong about that, not that anybody needs to do that either, but I think my assumption here is sound.
 

SPEN18

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
989
Location
MI, USA
Backwards compatibility doesn't mean an Ultimate port could be a replacement for a full new game. Just because GCN games ran on the Wii doesn't mean that rereleasing Melee with more characters would've been a good replacement for Brawl. Same with making an "updated" Brawl for the Wii U (ignoring the 3DS situation for the purpose of the point).
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,360
I think if the Switch successor is backward compatible with the Switch then I think Ultimate DX reusing and building upon the previous foundation would be entirely possible. I think idea of the successor system's core structure being incompatible with Ultimate's core structure and the idea of the successor system also being backward compatible with the Switch at the same time are contradictory. That is to say that I think if the successor system is backward compatible then the reuse design philosophy is very much viable.

I don't know that for sure because I'm not involved in that kind of practice and very willing to be explained to why I'm wrong about that, not that anybody needs to do that either, but I think my assumption here is sound.
Then they shouldn't call it "Ultimate DX" and should explicitly state that it's reusing assets from Ultimate to make a whole new game rather than it being an update.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
7,138
I'd rather have Mario's caveman costume from Odyssey. GRAND DAD.
First, we need Nintendo to make a game that's basically "Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but with video games", then have the plot consist of Waluigi kidnapping video game characters to force them to star in bootleg video games out of spite for the internet turning him into a joke. Grand Dad is the final boss, as Waluigi tries to turn himself into the Ultimate Video Game Character(TM).

Yes, I heard about the Chip 'n Dale movie, how could you tell?
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Backwards compatibility doesn't mean an Ultimate port could be a replacement for a full new game. Just because GCN games ran on the Wii doesn't mean that rereleasing Melee with more characters would've been a good replacement for Brawl. Same with making an "updated" Brawl for the Wii U (ignoring the 3DS situation for the purpose of the point).
The thing is that there are a lot of differences between Melee and Brawl to the point that both of them are considerend opposite poles, so unless the next game takes a complete different route in terms of gameplay and design then I don't see why you should do a new game with just a few additional content when you can just port Ultimate.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,360
The thing is that there are a lot of differences between Melee and Brawl to the point that both of them are considerend opposite poles, so unless the next game takes a complete different route in terms of gameplay and design then I don't see why you should do a new game with just a few additional content when you can just port Ultimate.
The next game doesn't need to be "completely different"; it just needs something to add to the core gameplay while keeping (most of) what's there already.
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Yeah maybe "completely different" was an exaggeration, but at least made it noticeable different to Ultimate would be the ideal imo. Especially considering it that the most "obligate buy" factor of Ultimate was the roster and how it's rather impossible that they could play that card again.
 

SonicSmasher1

Supersonic Warrior
Premium
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
14,430
I just had a thought. Remember Ayumi Tachibana from Famicom Detective Club? The girl who was considered for Melee? If she were to be in a Smash Bros. game like the next one, do you guys think some of her moveset could be something like this?


I mean, not exactly the same universe, but it is detective work after all.
 

SPEN18

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
989
Location
MI, USA
The thing is that there are a lot of differences between Melee and Brawl to the point that both of them are considerend opposite poles
That misses the point. I think you're trying to poke at holes specific to the particular example that are irrelevant to the larger idea that simply continually updating the same game is unsustainable.

No mere "update" of a GCN game would have been a good idea for the Wii, even irrespective of the more casual-focused philosophy employed in the latter era.

why you should do a new game with just a few additional content when you can just port Ultimate.
A new game wouldn't mean "just a few additional pieces of content." It would mean a healthy mix of old and new contents.

IMO too many people are stuck in this mentality that a new Smash game is just "what we can add to the last one." No, a new game is its own being that is free to take similar or dissimilar design and roster decisions (relative to the decisions which shaped the last game) to the extents that it so likes.

IMO bringing back everything should never be a priority over making the best in-the-moment content decisions. Naturally, stuffs that had a strong legacy before are likely to have a strong legacy later and so a lot of old things should still be in that high priority bracket even after reevaluation years later. But old contents should be able to stand on their legacies alone rather than just get automatically grandfathered into the next game.
 
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Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,360
IMO too many people are stuck in this mentality that a new Smash game is just "what we can add to the last one." No, a new game is its own being that is free to take similar or dissimilar design and roster decisions (relative to the decisions which shaped the last game) to the extents that it so likes.

IMO bringing back everything should never be a priority over making the best in-the-moment content decisions. Naturally, stuffs that had a strong legacy before are likely to have a strong legacy later and so a lot of old things should still be in that high priority bracket even after reevaluation years later. But old contents should be able to stand on their legacies alone rather than just being automatically grandfathered into the next game.
That's a big problem with both the whole video game industry and gamers nowadays.

For how much gamers like to bash Call of Duty and New Super Mario Bros. for being the same thing every time, both they and developers seem to be stuck in this mindset of "every video game sequel needs to be bigger and better than the last."

Sure, with the advancement of technology, that should be true to some extent, but it feels like a lot of games nowadays are so committed to "bigger and better" that they not only forget they have to make the experience distinct, but their ambitions ultimately outpace technology, and so they often have to settle on blatant "padding" content like fetch quests and repetitive missions because they run out of time and resources.

Sure Nintendo has Mario Kart and Pokémon, but I do appreciate that Nintendo's major franchises in general balance making sequels feel like new experiences with making them logical, bigger iterations on previous installments. Only maybe FromSoft and Atlus come close to Nintendo's "sequeling".
 
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Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,360
Watching the vid right now; considering Dark Matter is the collective villain of the Dark Matter Trilogy, he does have a role to play similar to Dark Samus.

Yes, Dark Samus is an Echo, but I still think Echoes are or should be selected with the same care as full characters.
 

Infinity Sorcerer

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Ok after looking the vid I still mantain my opinion that it would be Dark Matter Swordman rather than just Dark Matter, particulary I feel the character is unnecesary creepy just because the Dark Matters has that reputation in the fandom
 
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