Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ForsakenM]

Y'all replies here seem to be missing the point. my point was i want quality over quantity. having a large roster of majority characters who really don't actually work well given the overall design of the game is thoroughly un-fun. the move-sets are designed around how iconic they are. Rather the better option is to primarily design around how well they would actually work in game while keeping their history.

This has a similar air to me as when Marvel/Disney/Capcom got Combofiend to say 'They are just functions'.

You are valuing their viability over their character and history in gaming, while Smash is meant to celebrate the character and the history of gaming.

At the end of the road, this idealism eventually leads to only having one character in the game with different palettes to swap from. Not every character be be viable at everything, not every character needs to be able to do everything.

Do you think casual players think Donkey Kong should have the best recovery the game? Or do you think they want him to feel like Donkey Kong?

1 Most of the playable characters don't actually function well with aerial combat which is where the most important plays typically take place.
2 Balance is NOT what I typed. I typed about being EFFECTIVE
3 I am looking for a roster of fun and effective characters. this current roster is waaay too bloated for that.
4 The smash Community has been clamoring for a remake of Melee for over a decade. You do not think it would sell well?

1. Who cares if they do or don't? Remember, the casual audience for this game massively outweighs the competitive. Just because you think that, ideally, every character should have good aerial movement and options doesn't mean that they should. Again, what sense does it make for a boxer, a big ape, a giant turtle monster or a fat crocodile to excel in aerial combat?
   
   
2. Effective is subjective: Little Mac is INCREDIBLY effective while grounded. He can be a casual nightmare, and Peanut has seen some success in competitive. Ganondorf can be losing an entire match and bring it back with only a couple good reads, which sounds effective to me. Also, remember when Byleth was awful and slow? Now look at what MKLeo has done with this monster of a character. It can take years to find out what is 'effective', Morrigan in UMvC3 being a prime example.
   
   
3. Well...not only is fun subjective, but Ultimate is the most successful Smash title with the biggest roster and thus far the widest variety of characer usage in competitive play. If you can't find a handful of fun and effective characters in that roster, I don't think 'bloat' is to blame: I think it;s either your personal definition of fun and the term 'effective', or you may just need to take a temporary step away from the game to come back and find what you are looking for. Or even find it elsewhere, should you decided it's still not for you.
   
   
4. Because it wouldn't be the rushed and glitchy release with mods that the community clamors around: it would be the PAL Versions or whatever the name of the last updated version of Melee was that fixed bugs and glitches and nerfed characters, and they don't want that. Even if it wasn't, it would still be patched and polished with enough changes that the competitive scene would lean towards their original and busted version.

 

[Sucumbio]

.... Mains not coming back is only one reason an audience may dwindle. Like if the game is so different it's not Smash anymore ... But yeah cuts. Meh.

 

[Quillion]

You are valuing their viability over their character and history in gaming, while Smash is meant to celebrate the character and the history of gaming.

I agree with all of what you said, but I think there's also a point where celebrating the character and their history can go a bit too far in Smash.

 

[MasterCheef]

This has a similar air to me as when Marvel/Disney/Capcom got Combofiend to say 'They are just functions'.

You are valuing their viability over their character and history in gaming, while Smash is meant to celebrate the character and the history of gaming.

At the end of the road, this idealism eventually leads to only having one character in the game with different palettes to swap from. Not every character be be viable at everything, not every character needs to be able to do everything.

Do you think casual players think Donkey Kong should have the best recovery the game? Or do you think they want him to feel like Donkey Kong?

1. Who cares if they do or don't? Remember, the casual audience for this game massively outweighs the competitive. Just because you think that, ideally, every character should have good aerial movement and options doesn't mean that they should. Again, what sense does it make for a boxer, a big ape, a giant turtle monster or a fat crocodile to excel in aerial combat?
   
   
2. Effective is subjective: Little Mac is INCREDIBLY effective while grounded. He can be a casual nightmare, and Peanut has seen some success in competitive. Ganondorf can be losing an entire match and bring it back with only a couple good reads, which sounds effective to me. Also, remember when Byleth was awful and slow? Now look at what MKLeo has done with this monster of a character. It can take years to find out what is 'effective', Morrigan in UMvC3 being a prime example.
   
   
3. Well...not only is fun subjective, but Ultimate is the most successful Smash title with the biggest roster and thus far the widest variety of characer usage in competitive play. If you can't find a handful of fun and effective characters in that roster, I don't think 'bloat' is to blame: I think it;s either your personal definition of fun and the term 'effective', or you may just need to take a temporary step away from the game to come back and find what you are looking for. Or even find it elsewhere, should you decided it's still not for you.
   
   
4. Because it wouldn't be the rushed and glitchy release with mods that the community clamors around: it would be the PAL Versions or whatever the name of the last updated version of Melee was that fixed bugs and glitches and nerfed characters, and they don't want that. Even if it wasn't, it would still be patched and polished with enough changes that the competitive scene would lean towards their original and busted version.

To me with SSBU out of the way, the next smash no longer has to be a celebration of gaming and should much more on effective game-play and fun characters with good / interesting personality and a quality gameplay experience. Also and more importantly how much of a celebt\rstion of gaming is it with only Japanese characters and Steve being the only true exception? More like a Celebration of Nintendo and some other third Parties & definitely excluding Sony.

1 I care. I don't want the characters you referenced in Smash anymore. Nor do I care for a single non Nintendo character in SSBU as of Sora

2 I already clarified how i see effective gameplay.

3 I cannot find more than few characters because of the bloat and the fundamental opposition the development has seem to have had against the very things i want most. I am hoping the next game can remedy via moving towards better aerial combat and effective recoveries.

4 this is not completely prove-able.

 

[dream1ng]

Y'all replies here seem to be missing the point. my point was i want quality over quantity. having a large roster of majority characters who really don't actually work well given the overall design of the game is thoroughly un-fun. the move-sets are designed around how iconic they are. Rather the better option is to primarily design around how well they would actually work in game while keeping their history.

The problem with this is most of the current movesets aren't considered un-fun on a widespread basis. Most movesets aren't generally criticized at large for lacking quality. Balance, maybe. But conceptually, most movesets are well received, even considering not everyone will click with every moveset.

 

[Quillion]

To me with SSBU out of the way, the next smash no longer has to be a celebration of gaming and should much more on effective game-play and fun characters with good / interesting personality and a quality gameplay experience. Also and more importantly how much of a celebt\rstion of gaming is it with only Japanese characters and Steve being the only true exception? More like a Celebration of Nintendo and some other third Parties & definitely excluding Sony.

1 I care. I don't want the characters you referenced in Smash anymore. Nor do I care for a single non Nintendo character in SSBU as of Sora

2 I already clarified how i see effective gameplay.

3 I cannot find more than few characters because of the bloat and the fundamental opposition the development has seem to have had against the very things i want most. I am hoping the next game can remedy via moving towards better aerial combat and effective recoveries.

4 this is not completely prove-able.

Everything you're saying can just be responded to with:

 

[chocolatejr9]

Is it alright if I try to change the topic? Like, no offense, but every time we talk about cuts, we just go in circles.

So, um... any good Direct rumors? It's about that time of year again, and I wanna see what obviously fake stuff people come up with this time...

 

[ahemtoday]

The real question behind a upgraded ultimate is really due to licensing. did Nintendo make the contracts so they could have the licensing to put the characters into more than 1 smash game. Personally i would much rather see a much smaller cast with a lot more work put into making all movesets effective w/o being OP. I think a base roster of 20-24 characters next game with some key changes would be the best.

1 MINIMALIZE INPUT LAG

2 replace (_ air jumps ) with ( Air Dashes _)

3 add a powerful forward air meter which gets charged by doing damage

4 In 1V1s Player fighters should always turn around to face 1 opponent when standing still

5 Move Titles: ( Supper Sudden Death ) and ( Ready Go) to the screen’s top

6 Give big stages their own ( seperate list + seperate random pick )

7 Taunt Fixes = Make Best taunts be up taunt & give better taunts

8 C stick default = tilt attacks

Honestly, whenever people talk about a big next game, mechanics discussion interests me a lot more than "who will get cut", so I'm brushing past the roster talk and looking at the rest of the stuff.

1. Yeah this one sounds good
2. Air... jumps? I've heard of the concept of air dodges being replaced by air dashes from several people - including myself - but erasing double jumps from the game for a forward movement option seems odd and detrimental to recovery. Or wait, do you mean the eight-way type of airdash? I guess I could see that, but... well, this would make it largely impossible to maintain one's position in the air, not to mention be much more committal. I can't say I'm a fan of this one.
3. For forward aerials? Specifically? You add a universal meter and the only thing you do with it isn't something exciting like Final Smashes, no, it makes one normal move - one particular normal move and no others - stronger. The issue with this is for me is this is neither exciting nor interesting in terms of gameplay. Exactly one thing happens with this mechanic: you get the meter and then your next forward air is stronger. There is no decision involved with what move you use it on because it only works with forward air. The only thing this does is incentivize using a move you were probably already using anyway.
4. I don't see the point in this? The reason some characters autoface is because they have command inputs, so they can distinguish between tatsus and backwards Hadokens. What does putting it on other characters do, make back-airs harder to hit with?
5. This took me a long time to comprehend, but yes, perhaps reducing the amount of the screen the match start text takes up would be a good idea.
6. I... guess I get the appeal of this, but I hardly find it necessary.
7. How does one quantify what the "best taunt" is? Why does a character's "best taunt" need to always be on a specific button? Why should it be up taunt specifically? If you implemented this, would anyone actually notice?
8. That is my preferred way of doing it, but I don't see how making it the default changes... actually anything about the gameplay.

...I don't know, boss; with the exception of 1 and 5, I think these changes are unambitious at best and detrimental at worst. I guess the thing that makes this theoretical game's ginormous roster cuts worth it would be its big moveset revamps, but those can't really excite me unless you write 'em up, and I'm not about to suggest you waste your time doing all that.

 

[MasterCheef]

Or wait, do you mean the eight-way type of airdash?

Yes. I should also have added i would remove air dodging. As far as maintaining your position in the air if you really want to, there is an item for it

For forward aerials? Specifically? You add a universal meter and the only thing you do with it isn't something exciting like Final Smashes,

Final; Smashes to me are mostly exciting because you get typically get a K.O. with them. I would be fine with making a whole new move for the character as well i was just thinking F-air would be the easiest to implement.

Also how is getting; better taunts & fixing the C-stick to where i don't get punished a bad thing?

 

[Quillion]

Final; Smashes to me are mostly exciting because you get typically get a K.O. with them. I would be fine with making a whole new move for the character as well i was just thinking F-air would be the easiest to implement.

I mentioned this over at the other thread, but why can't we just sacrifice one of the XY buttons to use for a new attack input? I personally want the Y button to be used for a "super special" attack that burns meter and is a stronger variant of existing specials.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mentioned this over at the other thread, but why can't we just sacrifice one of the XY buttons to use for a new attack input? I personally want the Y button to be used for a "super special" attack that burns meter and is a stronger variant of existing specials.

This is something I can easily envision as well. A sort of in between super attack that's more powerful than a regular Special or Smash attack, but not quite as powerful as a Final Smash. This and Aerial Smash attacks would be great new mechanics, and I do think they'd be easily realizable with a roster as big as Ultimate.

It could even go with a Deluxe version of Ultimate, and this would give the game it's own legs to stand on compared to the Switch version. That, and a few newcomers and new / old returning modes , stages and new DLC.

 

[Quillion]

This is something I can easily envision as well. A sort of in between super attack that's more powerful than a regular Special or Smash attack, but not quite as powerful as a Final Smash. This and Aerial Smash attacks would be great new mechanics, and I do think they'd be easily realizable with a roster as big as Ultimate.

It could even go with a Deluxe version of Ultimate, and this would give the game it's own legs to stand on compared to the Switch version. That, and a few newcomers and new / old returning modes , stages and new DLC.

As long as they don't bring back World of Light-style Adventure, enhance the Spirits into Spirit Cards, make an entirely new menu style, and NOT call it "Ultimate Deluxe", that could work.

Still think Aerial Smashes require at least an option to turn off A-stick Smash tho.

 

[ahemtoday]

Yes. I should also have added i would remove air dodging. As far as maintaining your position in the air if you really want to, there is an item for it

An item entirely out of your control that you have to hope pops up, yeah.

With air dashes instead of jumps, if you need to recover and your opponent is ready and attempting to edgeguard you - you're basically forced to move in and eat whatever they have planned. One of your goals was to give all characters effective recoveries, but if they have this instead of a jump and no air dodge, I feel like nobody is getting back on.

Also how is getting; better taunts & fixing the C-stick to where i don't get punished a bad thing?

Giving characters "better taunts" is an alright goal, as vague as it is. I have no clue what your thought process is with making every character's "best taunt" their up taunt specifically.

As for the other thing: you can fix the C-stick so you don't get punished already in Ultimate. It is already an option in the control settings. All you do is turn it on. This would barely be a change.

Neither of these are bad things, but they affect very little in terms of gameplay. Like I said, if this theoretical game wants to impress me, it has to show me some more interesting stuff than "this control option is different by default".

 

[Lionfranky]

I am just asking...
Why can't Smash keep expanding roster and maintain balance when LOL has been doing that for long time? Is it that fighting or fighting platform genre is hard to maintain player base?

 

[Geno Boost]

Y'all replies here seem to be missing the point. my point was i want quality over quantity. having a large roster of majority characters who really don't actually work well given the overall design of the game is thoroughly un-fun. the move-sets are designed around how iconic they are. Rather the better option is to primarily design around how well they would actually work in game while keeping their history.



1 Most of the playable characters don't actually function well with aerial combat which is where the most important plays typically take place.
2 Balance is NOT what I typed. I typed about being EFFECTIVE
3 I am looking for a roster of fun and effective characters. this current roster is waaay too bloated for that.
4 The smash Community has been clamoring for a remake of Melee for over a decade. You do not think it would sell well?



I am quite perplexed by your definiton of ... good playstyle?
Good playstyle to me means effective aerial combat and minimum reasonable recovery.
For the record I don't consider 1V1s as the best experience for Smash. it is marketed as a party game. meaning having more than 2 people play at the same time. 1V1s are incredibly boring to me because the play-style is already known at the very beginning thus making it exceedingly predictable.

What I mean basically is that they don’t have outdated moveset and they are not missing something to be cut or be remade.

 

[RileyXY1]

I am just asking...
Why can't Smash keep expanding roster and maintain balance when LOL has been doing that for long time? Is it that fighting or fighting platform genre is hard to maintain player base?

Because there's a finite limit as to how big a roster can be. If the roster gets too big then balancing will become completely impossible.

 

[Lionfranky]

Because there's a finite limit as to how big a roster can be. If the roster gets too big then balancing will become completely impossible.

That still doesn't fully answer my question. If LOL can do that, why can't Smash? What's the difference? I'm genuinely asking.

 

[fogbadge]

I am just asking...
Why can't Smash keep expanding roster and maintain balance when LOL has been doing that for long time? Is it that fighting or fighting platform genre is hard to maintain player base?

perhaps the lol devs are more scared of their angrier fans

 

[RileyXY1]

That still doesn't fully answer my question. If LOL can do that, why can't Smash? What's the difference? I'm genuinely asking.

LOL isn't a fighting game at all. It's a MOBA, which plays by different rules.

 

[MasterCheef]

I mentioned this over at the other thread, but why can't we just sacrifice one of the XY buttons to use for a new attack input? I personally want the Y button to be used for a "super special" attack that burns meter and is a stronger variant of existing specials.

the problem with using existing specials is some of them have a meter or small limited uses per stock. Like B&K or Hero or Robin.
An entirely new move solves this problem completely. which i will now put in as a new move. thanks

Giving characters "better taunts" is an alright goal, as vague as it is. I have no clue what your thought process is with making every character's "best taunt" their up taunt specifically.

up taunt is closest to the left stick. thus making it the easiest and quickest option for taunting

 

[chocolatejr9]

The rise & fall of Level 5 sales in Japan is something! 😭

Level 5 Physical Sales units in Japan via Famitsu!
2013 - 1,508,340
2014 - 6,272,868
2015 - 2,960.877
2016 - 2,709,735
2017 - 1,122,801
2018 - 458,876
2019 - 433,404
2020 - 118,226
2021 - 111,965 pic.twitter.com/YN89ByK9HI

— Genki✨ (@Genki_JPN) May 30, 2022

Can somebody more knowledgable elaborate on this? Because at a glance, I don't think Level-5 will survive long enough to see next Smash...

 

[RileyXY1]

The rise & fall of Level 5 sales in Japan is something! 😭

Level 5 Physical Sales units in Japan via Famitsu!
2013 - 1,508,340
2014 - 6,272,868
2015 - 2,960.877
2016 - 2,709,735
2017 - 1,122,801
2018 - 458,876
2019 - 433,404
2020 - 118,226
2021 - 111,965 pic.twitter.com/YN89ByK9HI

— Genki✨ (@Genki_JPN) May 30, 2022

Can somebody more knowledgable elaborate on this? Because at a glance, I don't think Level-5 will survive long enough to see next Smash...

That is, unless a company like Nintendo decides to buy them out.

 

[Opossum]

I am just asking...
Why can't Smash keep expanding roster and maintain balance when LOL has been doing that for long time? Is it that fighting or fighting platform genre is hard to maintain player base?

League of Legends is one game that has gotten consistent updates over the course of many years, and is kept alive and funded by the thriving eSports scene the devs help support.

Smash Bros is an entire series with separate games, with all pretty much being made from the ground up, from a company that actively avoids supporting the eSports scene.

Even leaving aside things like the genres being completely different and the fact that LoL doesn't have to deal with licensing due to its use of original characters, they're two entirely different and incompatible cases.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Because there's a finite limit as to how big a roster can be. If the roster gets too big then balancing will become completely impossible.

Ultimate is already not balanced. It has better balance than previous games, but there are still obvious tiers of characters.

There's no limit to how big a roster can be. Characters just have to be balanced against a baseline. Nobody tries to balance every individual matchup anymore.

If LOL can do that, why can't Smash?

They can.

 

[RileyXY1]

Ultimate is already not balanced. It has better balance than previous games, but there are still obvious tiers of characters.

There's no limit to how big a roster can be. Characters just have to be balanced against a baseline. Nobody tries to balance every individual matchup anymore.

They can.

LOL is a bad comparison because it's not even a fighting game. It's a MOBA, which plays by different rules. Smash fans just have unrealistic expectations.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash can indeed do that...

If Ultimate is being kept alive. With or without a DX version on a new system.

 

[RileyXY1]

I just don't want Smash to become a stale franchise. I don't want them to just keep porting Ultimate forever and never doing anything new with the series.

 

[Quillion]

the problem with using existing specials is some of them have a meter or small limited uses per stock. Like B&K or Hero or Robin.
An entirely new move solves this problem completely. which i will now put in as a new move. thanks

What if the "super special" variants of those moves let you instantly restock that special meter instead of waiting it out or dying?

 

[ahemtoday]

the problem with using existing specials is some of them have a meter or small limited uses per stock. Like B&K or Hero or Robin.
An entirely new move solves this problem completely. which i will now put in as a new move. thanks

What if the "super special" variants of those moves let you instantly restock that special meter instead of waiting it out or dying?

I feel like a Super Special Meter ought to replace those sorts of meters in the first place.

I mean, with it, Cloud and Hero would already have a meter that limits their access to powerful attacks. I don't really see the need for them to have a second unique one on top of that.

 

[Quillion]

I feel like a Super Special Meter ought to replace those sorts of meters in the first place.

I mean, with it, Cloud and Hero would already have a meter that limits their access to powerful attacks. I don't really see the need for them to have a second unique one on top of that.

What I have in mind would replace certain unique meters, to be fair.

That's why I call the hypothetical "super special meter" a consolidation of Cloud's Limit, Mac's KO meter, and Terry's Desperation. IIRC, someone in this thread a while back called much of the special mechanics of the newer characters a "same-y sort of uniqueness" because it ends up being some sort of install or meter burning mechanic.

Hero's MP could be a bit difficult trying to replace it with a universal "super meter" though.

 

[ahemtoday]

What I have in mind would replace certain unique meters, to be fair.

That's why I call the hypothetical "super special meter" a consolidation of Cloud's Limit, Mac's KO meter, and Terry's Desperation. IIRC, someone in this thread a while back called much of the special mechanics of the newer characters a "same-y sort of uniqueness" because it ends up being some sort of install or meter burning mechanic.

Hero's MP could be a bit difficult trying to replace it with a universal "super meter" though.

You're talking to the person who said that right now!

I suppose the difference with Hero's MP is that it starts full, but I'm not sure that would be too difficult to change. Although it suddenly occurs to me that it might only really make sense with the version of the mechanic I've been envisioning where the supers are different moves entirely.

 

[Lionfranky]

LOL isn't a fighting game at all. It's a MOBA, which plays by different rules.

League of Legends is one game that has gotten consistent updates over the course of many years, and is kept alive and funded by the thriving eSports scene the devs help support.

Smash Bros is an entire series with separate games, with all pretty much being made from the ground up, from a company that actively avoids supporting the eSports scene.

Even leaving aside things like the genres being completely different and the fact that LoL doesn't have to deal with licensing due to its use of original characters, they're two entirely different and incompatible cases.

Good points. But what about Brawlhalla? It's also platform fighting game that has maintained for long time. It constantly gets third party newcomers. It just got guests from Street Fighter recently.

 

[Quillion]

You're talking to the person who said that right now!

I suppose the difference with Hero's MP is that it starts full, but I'm not sure that would be too difficult to change. Although it suddenly occurs to me that it might only really make sense with the version of the mechanic I've been envisioning where the supers are different moves entirely.

I think we should have super specials that are BOTH powered-up versions of existing specials and new moves entirely.

For example, I can't really think of anything for Mario's Neutral Y (because I think Y would be default) other than a "Shinkuu Fireball", but Ness's Down Y could be Lifeup, which allows him to actually do his signature healing, and Olimar's Down Y could have him apply Ultra-Spicy Spray while recalling all Pikmin, making it an install that instantly flowers them and temporarily powers them up.

Good points. But what about Brawlhalla? It's also platform fighting game that has maintained for long time. It constantly gets third party newcomers. It just got guests from Street Fighter recently.

Game-as-a-service has a place ONLY if the company is committed to never making a sequel. None of Nintendo's franchises are like that.

 

[Yamat08]

Something I think a lot of people are forgetting is that Smash is still a casual experience at its core. The simple mechanism of combining a directional input with one button press to perform a special move, that was specifically to help set it apart from the fighting games that require a specific combination of button inputs to achieve the same thing (even the fighting game characters in Smash still have this as an option, albeit the effect is watered down compared to the button combinations from their home series). It's overall meant to be something that's easy to get into, and while we did get some notable universal changes like side-specials and Final Smashes, more advanced stuff like meters and command inputs are character-specific at most (though I guess to be fair, you CAN play characters like Cloud and Hero without needing to rely on their gimmicks, though it's far less effective to do so, and Hero especially will be barred off from options in his kit, including his recovery, if you don't pay attention to his MP..... still, I guess it could work as a universal mechanic so long as it isn't too overly centralizing).

And just while I'm talking about casual Smash, the low amount of required buttons also ties into that. As tempting as it'd be to make X and/or Y do anything else, they're fine simply being extras so long as Smash continues to follow through with its casual appeal (and especially so long as things like the single Joycon, and previously the Wii remote, are options).

I am just asking...
Why can't Smash keep expanding roster and maintain balance when LOL has been doing that for long time? Is it that fighting or fighting platform genre is hard to maintain player base?

As others have stated, there's a huge difference in genre. With fighting games, every single character has be constructed very meticulously because even things as specific as frame data will have a major impact on how such characters will function.

That said, however, I wonder how far you can push a roster while having it still be somewhat manageable. Putting aside MUGEN (which is not a commercial game so much as a massive collection of fan mods), Tobal 2 is pretty famous for having over 200 characters as a result of being a fighter that combines monster-catching mechanics...... though this does result in a LOT of palette swaps and clones that are straight up inferior to their counterparts, alongside several other balancing issues (in fact, as I understand it, the entire monster-catching is just a bit of additional flare for using the game's quest mode, but has little actual bearing on the core vs. gameplay).

Still, it does leave me to wonder what Smash could accomplish if it were able to literally double its roster right now. We'd doubtlessly get a lot of characters that many might consider "essential", including many crucial side characters from many of Nintendo's franchises and even some third parties (like, screw it, let's have Sonic representation be Sonic AND Tails AND Knuckles AND Eggman AND both Shadow and Metal Sonic as Echoes)........ yet at the same time, it might still not be enough in some way or another, especially if one wanted to try pushing for "perfect" representation from a series like Pokemon or Fire Emblem (or even Final Fantasy if they could just get over representing just VII).

I just don't want Smash to become a stale franchise. I don't want them to just keep porting Ultimate forever and never doing anything new with the series.

While that is a valid concern, you gotta ask yourself, what has the series done so far that couldn't be done with previous games' content intact? As we've discussed countless times before, previous cuts were mostly circumstantial, with Brawl running up on a deadline after multiple delays and Smash4 deliberately crippling itself to present Smash on a portable system (also Konami being..... whatever.... at the time). And with Ultimate feeling pretty much like a refinement of everything the series had before it (minus a few minor, and easily fixable, hiccups like the input buffer), why not just keep adding onto that?

 

[Deleted member]

I think it is possible for the next smash game (which probably won't come out any time soon) could have a 3D mode. Once you think about it it should have come out on smash 4 and then again in ultimate. It is finally due for this to appear in smash.

 

[osby]

I think it is possible for the next smash game (which probably won't come out any time soon) could have a 3D mode. Once you think about it it should have come out on smash 4 and then again in ultimate. It is finally due for this to appear in smash.

You mean something like the VR mode or?

 

[ahemtoday]

I think it is possible for the next smash game (which probably won't come out any time soon) could have a 3D mode. Once you think about it it should have come out on smash 4 and then again in ultimate. It is finally due for this to appear in smash.

You mean something like the VR mode or?

I... think they mean full 3D movement.

Considering I have no clue how that would work, I can't agree with the assessment that we should have expected it from Smash 4.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I just don't want Smash to become a stale franchise. I don't want them to just keep porting Ultimate forever and never doing anything new with the series.

With a super Smash meter for everyone, thus an entirely new attack, and Aerial Smash attacks as new mechanics, newcomers, new DLC, "Everything Is Here" in terms of old modes like Smash Run , Boss Battles, trophies and **** it even the Coin Launcher, items and stages, I fail to see how exactly that would be "stale".

At least good enough for one more game honestly.

Am just saying, things don't have to be black or white. A reboot isn't guaranteed to automatically be "better" (better yet I think it'll alienate the core Smash fans) and a Ultimate DX or game that directly builds up from Ultimate isn't guaranteed to "suck" or be stale.

You guys acting like this is Mario Kart 8 yet again, it's not.

 

[SPEN18]

what has the series done so far that couldn't be done with previous games' content intact?

I feel like that's irrelevant unless you assume unlimited resources and time. Sure, you could hypothetically make Brawl without cutting anything from Melee, as in, it's physically possible; but it would've taken more resources than they apparently had.

And even if you did have the resources to bring everything back, I still think some of the Melee characters (who again were only added in the first place due to specific circumstantial factors) would have been better off left cut in favor of using that energy on other items, whether that be as big as new characters or as little as some extra trophies/stickers for underrepresented franchises. Fwiw, back in 4 I also supported leaving cut the previously cut Melee characters (even Mewtwo at the time).

--

But of course I'm coming from a very different position than most people because I'd still support cuts even in a straight-up port scenario, for various reasons on a character-by-character, stage-by-stage, etc. basis.

On that last thought it's probably a good idea to reiterate that my support of cuts is always specific to the particular character, stage, etc. That is, I go on an individual basis. If there wasn't any particular item I thought was better off cut then my posts here would be a much different story.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To me with SSBU out of the way, the next smash no longer has to be a celebration of gaming and should much more on effective game-play and fun characters with good / interesting personality and a quality gameplay experience. Also and more importantly how much of a celebt\rstion of gaming is it with only Japanese characters and Steve being the only true exception? More like a Celebration of Nintendo and some other third Parties & definitely excluding Sony.

1 I care. I don't want the characters you referenced in Smash anymore. Nor do I care for a single non Nintendo character in SSBU as of Sora

2 I already clarified how i see effective gameplay.

3 I cannot find more than few characters because of the bloat and the fundamental opposition the development has seem to have had against the very things i want most. I am hoping the next game can remedy via moving towards better aerial combat and effective recoveries.

4 this is not completely prove-able.

You don't want DK or Bowser in Smash?

Who hurt you?