Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

So what's your pettiest, most inane reason for not wanting someone

Not wanting an indie character for no particular reason whatsoever. And I mean literally no reason.

 

[Gengar84]

Hey pal, you dropped some more things.

I always assumed Olimar was the main character of the first Pikmin and the others were the supporting cast. Kind of like Cloud compared to Tifa or Barrett. I’ve never played the game so maybe my assumption was wrong.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I always assumed Olimar was the main character of the first Pikmin and the others were the supporting cast. Kind of like Cloud compared to Tifa or Barrett. I’ve never played the game so maybe my assumption was wrong.

Oh I mean Alph.

Olimat is absolutely the main character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I always assumed Olimar was the main character of the first Pikmin and the others were the supporting cast. Kind of like Cloud compared to Tifa or Barrett. I’ve never played the game so maybe my assumption was wrong.

What Swamp's referring to with Alph is that Sakurai made, and presumably was only going to make, Alph playable without his partners Brittany and Charlie. They're all the protagonists of Pikmin 3.

 

[BrawlX10]

I know Lloyd is more likely for a Takes rep but how would people feel about Alphen and Shionne from Tales of Arise as a tag duo? According to what I found (which might be wrong), it seems like Tales of Arise is the best selling Tales game ever and pushed the series into the mainstream as far as JRPGs go. I think the story was great and I loved Shionne’s character progression. As far as gameplay goes, Alphen is a hard hitting close range fighter while Shionne is a gunner with magic and healing artes. I think they’d compliment each other’s playstyles really well and there’s a strong story reason to pair them. They’re my top picks for a Tales rep but I’d also love to see Velvet.

View attachment 399532

I don't think Lloyd is the most likely Tales character anymore, tbh.
I think it's Yuri Lowell, Vesperia also has a switch port.
Yuri was even choosen over Lloyd in Project x Zone 1 and 2, for example and it's got over lloyd in Last Cloudia...etc.

 

[Ivander]

Oh I mean Alph.

Olimat is absolutely the main character.

I think you mean Olimar. Olimat is one of Olimar's cousins who likes to make bizarre theories for the video games made in the Pikmin universe.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't think Lloyd is the most likely Tales character anymore, tbh.
I think it's Yuri Lowell, Vesperia also has a switch port.
Yuri was even choosen over Lloyd in Project x Zone 1 and 2, for example and it's got over lloyd in Last Cloudia...etc.

Yuri was an awesome protagonist but I feel like he’s got the least interesting moveset potential of all the options on his own. I’d love to see him take a page out of Clive’s book and act as a Rosalina style duo with Repede. That would be really cool even if it’s not entirely accurate to the gameplay of Vesperia.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think Lloyd is the most likely Tales character anymore, tbh.
I think it's Yuri Lowell, Vesperia also has a switch port.
Yuri was even choosen over Lloyd in Project x Zone 1 and 2, for example and it's got over lloyd in Last Cloudia...etc.

I’ve always figured it’d be a toss-up between Yuri and Lloyd.

A choice between the Tales protagonist so popular Bamco banned him from popularity polls or the one that Nintendo fans would most likely recognize since his game was on the GameCube.

It can go either way but given the direction Final Fantasy went for Smash and how we got Persona over SMT… I think Yuri has the edge.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

OK not all character relations are created equal:

• The starters are introduced as trios, but quickly break off.
• Legendaries are almost always a part of their duo/trio/quartet.
  • Exceptions are standalone legendaries, Cresselia because they didn't really do anything with it, and Phione, which is just a big oddity in the first place.
• Team Star Fox has 4-6 members depending on the game, but it doesn't feel necessary to have all of them, or even the core 4, as cool as that would be,
• Rex needs Pyra to make sense as a choice, and while solo Aegis makes less sense, it doesn't not make any sense. Even so I don't think Solo Pyra would have worked near as well, and Rex is still there to show the connection, just not in playable form.
• Can't really comment on Alph.
• Min Min doesn't even belong in this conversation. She has 0 connections to the other ARMS fighters.

 

[Watuna4343]

I'm currently working on a hypothetical roster for if Sakurai's current project is a Smash that releases at the end of the year. How satisfied would you personally be with the following list of newcomers? Alternatively, how satisfied do you think general audiences would be?

1. Waluigi
2. Skull Kid
3. Bandana Waddle Dee
4. Meowscarada
5. Tom Nook
6. Octoling
7. Ring Fit Adventurer
8. Ayumi Tachibana
9. Excitebiker
10. Shadow the Hedgehog
11. X and Zero (transforming character)
12. Chun-Li
13. Alucard
14. Ryu Hayabusa
15. Geno

Here are the echoes:

1. Funky Kong
2. Galacta Knight
3. Big Boss (based on MGS3 and Peace Walker)

A while ago we brought up the topic of the 2021 project not being Smash and it really does line up, imo at least, with Smash having started development at a later point, like 2023-2024. But in any case, I think these newcomers are kind of solid and kinda not. Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Meowscarada, Shadow, Ayumi, Tom Nook, Octoling (dk why it's listed as a unique fighter though), Chun Li and kinda Ring Fit Adventurer and Galacta Knight are solid picks but imo the rest feel a lot like bubble picks. Geno, Funky Kong, X/Zero, Skull Kid and Excitebiker are picks that feel really 'bubble picks' and are really weird characters to add in Smash 6 in terms of timing and rep. Unpopular opinion I guess but imo while I don't think this roster will get piled on much... I don't see it generating much excitement or satisfaction at all. Geno is, as much as the Smash fandom hates to admit it, an obscure character, Funky Kong I highly doubt would be considered for an echo compared to a lot of characters, Skull Kid I had talked a while ago, but I don't see why he'd be added now, Mega Man is a legacy pick first and foremost and I highly doubt the general audience (as well as the team) would really die for a 2nd Mega Man rep and Excitebiker I get it, fills the retro pick slot but imo, Sakurai would've added him too some time ago, I am actually of the opinion that the next retro pick will not be from the NES.

 

[Watuna4343]

And in terms of Smash 6 newcomers predictions, I'll actually predict that the newcomers will be about 15 overall including any newcomer echo fighters, so:
01. Waluigi
02. Bandana Waddle Dee
03. Meowscarada
04. Sidon (really a placeholder slot for a new age Zelda rep, just went with who I think is the likeliest)
05. Tom Nook
06. Off the Hook (hesitant inclusion since Idk if they'll work)
07. Mio (probably a hot take but personally, I don't think Noah is getting in because she has the more interesting moveset)
08. Ayumi Tachibana
09. Akira Howard
10. Ring Fit Trainee
11. UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT!! - Muddy Mole (YES, I went for this retro pick again, in terms of moveset and because I firmly believe the next retro pick won't be from the NES, I chose someone to represent the GameBoy)
12. Rayman
13. Crash Bandicoot

Newcomer echoes:
01. Octoling
02. Louie

 

[BritishGuy54]

A bit of a weird question, but it's one that's been on my mind a lot as of late. What does the next game need to have for you to be satisfied? There's often a lot of talk of what we think is likely or what unlikely addition we'd want included, but I wanna gauge a little just what the bar is for people to be happy with the game.

For me, moveset redesigns are the main thing I'd want over anything else. I'm fine with new characters and stages, but I'd hope for a 50-60 overall roster in regards to base game, since they kinda play second fiddle if the returning vets are using the same moves as in Ultimate. I really wanna see what updates can be made now that there isn't an incentive to rush through development. Of the 15-20 characters that are solidly in my want pile, I'd be pretty satisfied with just one or hopefully two of em, be they kinda a side want or one of my never evers.

Keep on the roster.

Bring in a substantial batch of newcomers.

Mostly new stages. Like, at least 2/3 of the total selection.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

07. Mio (probably a hot take but personally, I don't think Noah is getting in because she has the more interesting moveset)

I don't think this is true, but Mio does have the visual diversity, which is what I think may give her the edge.

If we do get Noah, it's definitely because of what he can do.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Can't really comment on Alph.

I can at least say that Charlie is too bulky to be rigged to Alphimar's animations.

Brittany, I think she could've been the right shape, but with the enforced 8 costume limit there would've been an unequal number of Olimar, Alph, and Brittany costumes.

 

[Opossum]

OK not all character relations are created equal:

• The starters are introduced as trios, but quickly break off.
• Legendaries are almost always a part of their duo/trio/quartet.
  • Exceptions are standalone legendaries, Cresselia because they didn't really do anything with it, and Phione, which is just a big oddity in the first place.
• Team Star Fox has 4-6 members depending on the game, but it doesn't feel necessary to have all of them, or even the core 4, as cool as that would be,
• Rex needs Pyra to make sense as a choice, and while solo Aegis makes less sense, it doesn't not make any sense. Even so I don't think Solo Pyra would have worked near as well, and Rex is still there to show the connection, just not in playable form.
• Can't really comment on Alph.
• Min Min doesn't even belong in this conversation. She has 0 connections to the other ARMS fighters.

Or, hear me out, the rules you listed are completely made up and arbitrary. The "starters come in threes so we won't get a standalone starter after Trainer" was treated as ironclad until Greninja tore it down.

I don't think we'd get either of them, but a choice would be made between Koraidon and Miraidon at the end of the day.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Or, hear me out, the rules you listed are completely made up and arbitrary. The "starters come in threes so we won't get a standalone starter after Trainer" was treated as ironclad until Greninja tore it down.

I don't think we'd get either of them, but a choice would be made between Koraidon and Miraidon at the end of the day.

I suppose it is mostly vibes based, but I still firmly believe that neither is more likely than just one in the case of those two specifically.

 

[Watuna4343]

I don't think this is true, but Mio does have the visual diversity, which is what I think may give her the edge.

If we do get Noah, it's definitely because of what he can do.

Noah would stand out among the swordmen yes and would play differently but he'd still be a swordman at the end of the day, whereas Mio brings in a new weapon altogether to the roster.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Noah would stand out among the swordmen yes and would play differently but he'd still be a swordman at the end of the day, whereas Mio brings in a new weapon altogether to the roster.

Yes but mechanically speaking she'd just be a brawler with disjoints, or something like Sheik. Noah on the other hand has the unsheathing Lucky 7 mechanic, which could just be a power up stance, but it also could make him an Iaido style character like Johnny or Yuzuriha. The latter of which would very much stand out amongst the rest of the cast, and even the other swordfighters.

 

[Perkilator]

Noah & Mio also have the ability to use weapons from another class in the one they're using. So Noah can use his, Lanz, and Eunie's weapons, while Mio can use her, Sena's, and Taion's weapons.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Noah & Mio also have the ability to use weapons from another class in the one they're using. So Noah can use his, Lanz, and Eunie's weapons, while Mio can use her, Sena's, and Taion's weapons.

True, but focusing on this aspect will likely muddy the character's moveset direction and appeal. Unless we made several movesets for it, but the whole argument is to avoid doing that, so if we don't care about that, just add both.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like Elma is the most interesting from a moveset perspective of all the most realistic Xenoblade options. Noah has some stuff going for him but shares too many skills with Shulk from what I remember. Mio is interesting but doesn’t quite have the variety of Elma. Plus, jumping in a Skell for a Finsl Smash is pretty cool. Alternatively, Noah and Mio’s Ouroboros fusion form as a full fighter would be really cool.

 

[BrawlX10]

Yeah, it'd be absurd to only add one out of a group.

Oops I dropped something.

Miraidon is already playable in Pokemon UNITE without Koraidon too.

 

[ninjahmos]

I may or may not have said this before, but I think it'd be pretty cool if the next Smash game had some content from Dance Dance Revolution, especially if Konami is playing ball, because it's one of their most prominent franchises. There could be a stage based on one of the DDR arcade machines with various colorful backgrounds depending on what song is being played. It could look something like this:

Of course, DDR isn't the only rhythm game series I'd like to see represented in Smash. I'm still hoping we get a Rhythm Heaven character.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Here's my prediction for the newcomers for Smash 6, assuming it releases in late 2026/27:
UNIQUE CHARACTERS

1. Waluigi
2. Sidon/Urbosa/Any "wild era' Zelda Rep
3. Raven Beak
4. Bandanna Dee
5. A Generation 10 Pokemon
6. Alear
7. Noah (maybe Mio too but doesn't really seem likely)
8. Isaac
9. Dante
10. Ryu Hayabusa

ECHOES

1. Dixie Kong (Diddy)
2. Impa (Sheik)
3. Octoling (Inkling)
4. Shadow (Sonic)

 

[Perkilator]

I used TierMaker again, and here’s a thing I made with it for what I’d like to see in the next game.
View attachment 398659

Decided to make another tier list:

 

[ninjahmos]

A bit of a weird question, but it's one that's been on my mind a lot as of late. What does the next game need to have for you to be satisfied? There's often a lot of talk of what we think is likely or what unlikely addition we'd want included, but I wanna gauge a little just what the bar is for people to be happy with the game.

For me, moveset redesigns are the main thing I'd want over anything else. I'm fine with new characters and stages, but I'd hope for a 50-60 overall roster in regards to base game, since they kinda play second fiddle if the returning vets are using the same moves as in Ultimate. I really wanna see what updates can be made now that there isn't an incentive to rush through development. Of the 15-20 characters that are solidly in my want pile, I'd be pretty satisfied with just one or hopefully two of em, be they kinda a side want or one of my never evers.

A roster of 45-53 veterans, some hopefully with reworked movesets, and at least 6-10 newcomers for base game, more substantial single-player content including a Melee-esque Adventure Mode and bonus games from previous Smash titles (Break the Targets, Board the Platforms and Race to the Finish), more music including new remixes, and if possible, maybe even a change in the main music direction from orchestral to rock and jazz-funk.

 

[Gengar84]

To everyone saying Dixie should be an echoe of Diddy, what about all her hair attacks and ability to float? Those are kind of central to her identity and Diddy doesn’t have that ability. I also have a hard time picturing Dixie flying around with a jetpack.

 

[Perkilator]

To everyone saying Dixie should be an echoe of Diddy, what about all her hair attacks and ability to float? Those are kind of central to her identity and Diddy doesn’t have that ability. I also have a hard time picturing Dixie flying around with a jetpack.

She can be more of a Ken-style Echo with different attack animations on top of the parent fighter’s base skeleton.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To everyone saying Dixie should be an echoe of Diddy, what about all her hair attacks and ability to float? Those are kind of central to her identity and Diddy doesn’t have that ability. I also have a hard time picturing Dixie flying around with a jetpack.

That's kind of the thing with Echo Fighters: What about their abilities? Change Rocketbarrell to Helicopter and it would be passable.

Otherwise she'd probably be better as a clone/pseudo-clone.

 

[Gengar84]

She can be more of a Ken-style Echo with different attack animations on top of the parent fighter’s base skeleton.

I suppose I can kind of see that. I’m not sure at what point a character stops being an echo and becomes a semiclone. I feel like she’d be more of a Falco, Wolf, Isabelle situation than an echo if anything. That’s ignoring any possible gimmicks they could give her that would make her even more unique. I don’t think Diddy and Dixie share any moves at all besides both having a gun at one point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dixie was in Barrel Blast I'm sure, so Rocketbarrel wouldn't not work on her, but her not being able to hair helicopter would be a big oof.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, that’s why I don’t like the idea of her being an echo. Sure, they’re both monkeys with similar builds and the peanut gun and bubble gum gun are similar but that’s basically where the similarities end. Dixie is slower and floatier than Diddy and they have different grabs and running attacks. There wasn’t much to work with on their own beyond that but I feel like there’s a lot of potential to make Dixie unique by either playing more into her hair attacks, giving her animal buddy specials, or pairing her with Kiddy. A Diddy echo is just so uninteresting to me and she’s one of my most wanted first party characters.

 

[ninjahmos]

I suppose I can kind of see that. I’m not sure at what point a character stops being an echo and becomes a semiclone. I feel like she’d be more of a Falco, Wolf, Isabelle situation than an echo if anything. That’s ignoring any possible gimmicks they could give her that would make her even more unique. I don’t think Diddy and Dixie share any moves at all besides both having a gun at one point.

This is kind of how I feel about Sonic and Shadow. Sure, they look similar, they're both fast and they can Spin Dash and do Homing Attacks, but Shadow has Chaos Control (and the Black Arms/Doom Powers, but that may have just been a thing for Shadow '05 and Generations). I mean, if you wanna give him Homing Attack and Spin Dash for his neutral and down specials, go ahead. But at least make his side and up specials different.

Maybe Shadow's up special could be Chaos Control (Teleport).

 

[Kirbeh]

Mildly warm take time again.

Ditch the echo labeling. At the end of the day, they're still clone characters. It may have quelled the complaints a bit for one game but people who don't like clones aren't going to stop disliking them. Plus, there are still non-echo clones anyway.

More to the point, it ultimately doesn't mean much within the game itself, but I feel like it's had a negative impact on character discussion.

Sure, the "echo" branding warmed some people up to the idea because it's another box they can try to fill, but it's inadvertently made it more difficult to discuss some characters who are now more readily dismissed as only being echo material and nothing more. And with echoes by nature being more restrictive than "traditional" clones, half the time the suggestions wind up failing to meet the criteria anyway.

More often than not, when people ask for echoes, they then go on to describe a clone and not an echo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dixie Kong can reuse the Spinning Kong from DK by re-rigging the skeleton work. So that in itself is not an issue. Other stuff can be, though. That's just the one move that's pretty easy to figure out, not unlike how Chrom got a reworked version of Ike's Up B.

--------------

That said, how many Pokemon Legendary Duos even show up in Smash where only one out of two does? I thought it's very consistent that both show up(though might not be the case for Trios, respectively). If the Duos always show up together, that can influence the decision making.

 

[BrawlX10]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

 

[Kirbeh]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

I'm confident she'll be featured in the game. Playable though? Probably not.

 

[ninjahmos]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

I think she has a 50/50 chance. The FDC series seems to have been doing well with its recent resurgence, but I'm not sure that'll be enough for Ayumi to be playable.

 

[Perkilator]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

Yeah, kind of. The FDC remakes came out two months before the project plan (assuming it’s Smash) was written, which gives Ayumi a bit of an edge via recency bias.

 

[fogbadge]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

nope