Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

Talking about echo fighters…

Who are the most realistic options for new and veteran echoes?

• Dixie Kong (ε of Diddy Kong)
• Ninjara (ε of (preferably a reworked) Min Min)

 

[Gengar84]

My prediction for the “Joker” for Smash 6 is Jinx from League of Legends. Both Joker and Jinx were pretty huge outside of Smash speculation but rarely brought up for Smash due to their weaker Nintendo ties. Both did have some connection through spinoff games on Nintendo consoles though. Jinx also has that same type of rebellious energy as Joker that makes for an exciting reveal. Season 1 of Arcane was released around the speculated project plan and made a much bigger impact than anyone could have guessed. She’s remained relevant through the second season and the show went on to win tons of awards. I think it would be a pretty big deal to get her in Smash and could bring in a lot of fans who may not have tried Smash otherwise.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think people are overestimating the prevalence/familiarity of Estelle/Trails or underestimating the prevalence/familiarity of Joker/Persona if they're being equated. The entire former series has sold about the same as just Persona 5.

I think a closer example to Joker would be 2B.

Let's be honest, Persona 5 had only been out for about 2 years at that point. No matter how much it sold, Joker was no Mega Man or Simon or Ryu or Cloud and was certainly not expected or seen as a likely Smash candidate by a lot of people. So he was quite a surprise in a few ways.

 

[ninjahmos]

Ignore this post

 

[Watuna4343]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

Seems like a hot take but I am increasingly confident in her chances. I still think she's the best option for a 1st party new ongoing franchise with the Ring Fit Trainee getting in as sort of a Wii Fit Trainer situation, more of an honor to the success and Astral Chain being right behind Ayumi. Sakurai's reason for not going further with her being basically deemed invalid now certainly helps her case. But yeah, I don' think I'd call her a lock. But she's a character that I do think will come.

 

[Will]

Talking about echo fighters…

Who are the most realistic options for new and veteran echoes?

If we treat it liberally like Ken or Chrom, we have good options.

Shadow the Hedgehog

Dixie Kong, yes I hear you Diddy Kong, I’ve been hearing you for seven years, we’ll just need to put our money where our mouths are in 2-3 years and find out the hard way, if she makes it.

Jeanne? Maybe? I don’t play Bayonetta, but I would also like more Bayonetta characters if it can be helped.

 

[Gengar84]

I say Octolings as echoes and a separate unique Splatoon character in addition to them. I went with DJ Octavio because he looks very unique and Smash could use more villains.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Id rather have a Diddy/Dixie combo character.

I think this is actually a pretty likely outcome. It was Diddy's original concept in Brawl before being scrapped after all. If they decide to revisit requests for Dixie, they could totally make them a swap character if the idea is appealing enough.

 

[NotGenerico]

What character do you think could be the Joker of Smash 6 DLC? (A surprising 3rdparty character that opens the first pass)

The Tarnished from Elden Ring. Elden Ring was a huge success, almost ridiculously so, having sold around 28 million copies since its release. A Switch 2 port is very likely happening, too.

 

[Will]

The Tarnished from Elden Ring. Elden Ring was a huge success, almost ridiculously so, having sold around 28 million copies since its release. A Switch 2 port is very likely happening, too.

Yes… One step closer to Goku

 

[Watuna4343]

Talking about echo fighters…

Who are the most realistic options for new and veteran echoes?

From veteran echo fighters, Lucina is easily the most likely to come back. Daisy is 2nd likeliest and Dark Samus rounds out the top 3 - those 3 I'd bet on coming back. For new veterans... I mean Octoling has echo fighter written all over it. I would say Louie is also an option (I don't see him brought up often though) but that's more of a toss up. I see people are saying Shadow and Dixie Kong... They won't be echoes. I'd bet money on that. Shadow first of all has a good chance to be playable in the next Smash and I think at worst he'll be a semi-clone, like the chances of him being based on Sonic at least to some degree are decent but a straight up echo is another story altogether. And Dixie Kong... I just don't think Sakurai will have her in. Because if Ultimate was the time to add fan demands even as echo fighters and Sakurai still didn't put Dixie Kong in. And neither do I see a world where Diddy Kong is demoted from solo fighter to part of a fighter just to get Dixie Kong in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think this is actually a pretty likely outcome. It was Diddy's original concept in Brawl before being scrapped after all. If they decide to revisit requests for Dixie, they could totally make them a swap character if the idea is appealing enough.

That entirely depends on how they would play as a team. Charizard plays about the same because we know Down B was reserved for Switching Out or could be changed out for another move without affecting its playstyle. That makes sense.

The fact it didn't work out means that it's not a simple transformation gimmick like they have, so the complications are very up in the air. It may not be doable without a massive overhaul of Diddy, which wouldn't happen since no character gets that kind of overhaul. They get minor updates, with sometimes a few moderate ones(like Bowser having his wrestler-style moves, but he still has his kaiju factors. Or how Pit got quite a change-up going into 4. It still keeps their core intact either way).

 

[Ivander]

Yes… One step closer to Goku

More like one step closer to Berserk. With how much FromSoft likes to reference that

 

[Golden Icarus]

Talking about echo fighters…

Who are the most realistic options for new and veteran echoes?

On the subject of veterans - I'd be very surprised if Daisy doesn't return. Sakurai drew attention to how exciting it is to have all the princesses playable and so long as the next game maintains 70-80% of its roster, then I imagine most Mario characters, especially one as popular and evergreen as Daisy will keep her spot. If she doesn't make it, then they're probably just axing clones altogether...and even then she'd be a good character to semi-clone-ify.

Ken's another character that would be strange to get rid of now that he's here, especially as he's been a bigger representative of Street Fighter than Ryu in recent years. Not to mention his uniqueness making him generally more desirable than other echoes.

I think the rest are up in the air.

 

[ninjahmos]

What character do you think could be the Joker of Smash 6 DLC? (A surprising 3rdparty character that opens the first pass)

OK, here's what I think are the possible options:

A SEGA character
A Capcom character
A Konami character
Rayman
Doom Slayer
Master Chief
Dragonborn (Skyrim)
Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell (Tales)
2B (NieR: Automata)
The Chosen Undead (Dark Souls)
The Tarnished (Elden Ring)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

On the subject of veterans - I'd be very surprised if Daisy doesn't return. Sakurai drew attention to how exciting it is to have all the princesses playable and so long as the next game maintains 70-80% of its roster, then I imagine most Mario characters, especially one as popular and evergreen as Daisy will keep her spot. If she doesn't make it, then they're probably just axing clones altogether...and even then she'd be a good character to semi-clone-ify.

Ken's another character that would be strange to get rid of now that he's here, especially as he's been a bigger representative of Street Fighter than Ryu in recent years. Not to mention his uniqueness making him generally more desirable than other echoes.

I think the rest are up in the air.

I mean I'd be kinda surprised if Dark Samus doesn't return because Samus is always going to be guaranteed in a Smash roster lol

Not necessarily evergreen like Daisy, so probably not the MOST likely, but as far as I recall they were popular, which is why they became an Echo to begin with, and there's plenty of room for some semi-clone action there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Echo Veterans;

• Dark Samus: Probably safe. Especially with how relevant Metroid is. The franchise is unlikely to have any cuts in the next game. It's a bit less likely to get a newcomer, though, depending on variables that come up.
• Daisy: No way she's getting cut at any point. She's the easiest one to make, and they even emphasized her importance(as noted above), but also still went out of their way to make her near identical to Peach even when she got an accidental difference. There's some dedication to the simplicity of it all.
• Lucina: Definitely not getting cut. Marth is never leaving, so she's safe like Daisy is.
• Chrom: Roy isn't that safe, so he isn't either. It's as simple as that. He's particularly structured to be based upon Roy(it doesn't matter that he shares animations with Marth by proxy. That's not what the design is about).
• Dark Pit: Pit's not leaving, so neither is Dark Pit.
• Richter: He's as relevant as ever, which means they'd just get both characters anyway at the time again. So he wouldn't be cut unless Simon is.
• Ken: Is Ryu in? Then he is. That's another kind of "simple as that" situation.

What I hope is they give minor changes to some Echoes at the very least.

No real opinions on Echo Newcomers. Especially with a pretty huge lack of details beyond "bodyshape has to be the same". Which doesn't say much, as there's always more variables beyond that. Like, yeah, Octoling is one thing, but you have to also look at "do they intend to give them different weapons and such so they stand out?", which at most means Octoling is a fairly safe character to be added in, but not how they'll play. They aren't a "lucky to get a clone-type position" in the same way that Ganondorf originally was, or even ones like Dark Samus and Chrom. It's just a fairly reasonable way to use them instead.

 

[Watuna4343]

On the subject of veterans - I'd be very surprised if Daisy doesn't return. Sakurai drew attention to how exciting it is to have all the princesses playable and so long as the next game maintains 70-80% of its roster, then I imagine most Mario characters, especially one as popular and evergreen as Daisy will keep her spot. If she doesn't make it, then they're probably just axing clones altogether...and even then she'd be a good character to semi-clone-ify.

Ken's another character that would be strange to get rid of now that he's here, especially as he's been a bigger representative of Street Fighter than Ryu in recent years. Not to mention his uniqueness making him generally more desirable than other echoes.

I think the rest are up in the air.

When did Sakurai say that about the Princesses? Because if anything what I remember reading is that Daisy was originally an alt for Peach that eventually became her own fighter. Mind ya I still think Daisy is coming back but I'd still put far more stock into Lucina given that Fire Emblem is bound to take a hit next game but because it's a growing franchise it can't be axed THAT bad and like, the most popular character from the game that saved the franchise and one of the most popular FE characters period and the only female non-avatar character of the franchise is right there, with a prime purpose as a clone. Personally I still think Daisy while a pretty big veteran isn't the most likely echo to return when Lucina has a lot more going for her. Also with Ken, it really depends on if they even want to prioritize 3rd party clones to 1st party clones if it comes down to time and resources. And counter-argument to Ken is simply that because he's more different than the rest of the echoes, he doesn't quite have the 'ease of implementation' like the others do.

 

[Will]

Okay hear me out,

I’d play a third Belmont. Upgrade Alucard while we’re at it, real OG’s know what Trevor meant to him.

 

[ninjahmos]

No real opinions on Echo Newcomers. Especially with a pretty huge lack of details beyond "bodyshape has to be the same".

The vagueness of that description is part of why I'm growing more and more iffy on Echo Fighters. I know there's more to it than that, but I see some fan choices for possible Echoes, and a lot of them are…questionable, to say the least.

For example, they may not even have the same moves or even be from the same franchise. In fact, they may not even have the same body shape.

 

[Perkilator]

What character do you think could be the Joker of Smash 6 DLC? (A surprising 3rdparty character that opens the first pass)

I think maybe 2B could be the Joker of the DLD, whereas someone like Adolescent or Estelle could be the Terry of the DLC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The vagueness of that description is part of why I'm growing more and more iffy on Echo Fighters. I know there's more to it than that, but I see some fan choices for possible Echoes, and a lot of them are…questionable, to say the least.

For example, they may not even have the same moves or even be from the same franchise. In fact, they may not even have the same body shape.

It's not honestly vague. Are their models near identical or identical? Yes. Then it's possible. Also, we know for a fact they don't have to have all the same moves as Chrom shows. Even Ken shows that.

This is one of the least confusing things about it. A lot don't care that the bodyshape factor is 100% specific anyway. But that's people not doing the research anyway. Also, it's not like it was said they must be from the same franchise. Obviously that's not a hard rule for a type of clone. Maybe that's how Sakurai does it for Echoes. Maybe it's not. So it shouldn't be a hard rule either for an Echo. That said, if most of the moves are downright different, it doesn't really match up with what we see, which is "being a very easy to make character". Some stuff is just very obvious on why it wouldn't work. You don't always need a hard rule for it.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

What character do you think could be the Joker of Smash 6 DLC? (A surprising 3rdparty character that opens the first pass)

Obligatory text.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think maybe 2B could be the Joker of the DLD, whereas someone like Adolescent or Estelle could be the Terry of the DLC.

"Adolescent"?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In terms of comparable DLC picks to Joker, I could see the Tarnished from Elden Ring being a big one if ER ends up on the Switch 2. It's a major game making huge waves internationally like Persona 5 did and (like the latter) is big enough that the individual game's meh connection to Nintendo is effectively compensated for. One would think Chosen Undead would get the nod sooner, but then again a few thought an SMT character would pop in Smash sooner than a Persona one.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Talking about echo fighters…

Who are the most realistic options for new and veteran echoes?

Octoling, Shadow, Dixie Kong and Funky Kong seem like possible options for echos. Lot of them could also be semi-clones or even fully original characters. Jeanne for Bayonetta and Zack Fair for Cloud could work if its as additional 3rd party echoes.

Pokemon is weird since lot of options have different proportions so several options wouldn't work as well. Maybe Kanto Raichu for Pikachu. I think that didn't happen because Pichu exists as a regular clone. Scream Tail for Jigglypuff is probably the one that works the most. Zeraora works more as a clone of Wolf then Lucario in my opinion excluding special moves.

 

[BrawlX10]

Elden Ring seems like a sleeper pick, mostly because most people expect Dark Souls first, though i think Malenia might be the one choosen instead of Tarnished, imagine not just having a elden ring character as the opening, but the most popular boss of the game playable, that would make some elden ring fans interested for sure.
...Then there's also Genshin Impact, which is another one that is sleept on imo.

So i guess my bets are Genshin and Elden Ring for Joker-like pass openings, and peraps Jinx and Hollow Knight too.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Maybe Agumon could be a Joker-like character?

The new Digimon game did get a lot of people's attention i saw.

Talking about echo fighters…

Who are the most realistic options for new and veteran echoes?

I want to say Zack makes perfect sense but i dont want another ff7 character on the select screen.

My two casual friens didn't know any of the dlc fighters except Steve and Kazuya, and the latter only known as "the guy from tekken", i think people overstimate how much the average casuals would recognize, specially in countries outside Japan and America.
That didn't stop them to main Terry and Sepiorth, colness factor and cool movesets are can be draws for some casuals even if they dont know the characters, "oh this guy looks cool, bro" it's all it took my friend to pick Terry.

They didnt know Sora?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Are you guys confident in Ayumi's chances?

If the next Smash was drafted in 2021, she has decent but not incredible chances because the one thing that stopped her from being in Melee, the lack of international presence, no longer applies due to the 2020 remakes. It's just a matter of whether or not Sakurai would want to revisit the idea.

If it was drafted in 2024 to line up with Bamco's studio changes, I wouldn't say she's guaranteed but having both the remakes and an entirely new game with Emio absolutely boosts her relevance and potentially makes the FDC series in general more worth looking into for Smash content.

It's be funny if Smash 6 is indeed a 2026/27/28 game with a development period of 2023 and 24 like some people assume and it still doesn't get gen 10 pokemon.

In that situation, if Gen 10 isn't getting a roster slot, no Pokemon is because Gen 9 would be old news by the time Sakurai does his project plan.

And the idea of Pokemon missing out on a base game roster sounds absolutely ridiculous.

I think people are overestimating the prevalence/familiarity of Estelle/Trails or underestimating the prevalence/familiarity of Joker/Persona if they're being equated. The entire former series has sold about the same as just Persona 5.

I think a closer example to Joker would be 2B.

They also both happen to do a lot of crossovers. Just... don't ask about the Joker ones. Most of them have led to the games reaching EoS.

 

[fogbadge]

And Ganondorf isn’t a clone of Captain Falcon

They need to take some liberties here, they’re visual novel characters. I mostly like him for his design if I’m being truly honest.

that's where your wrong, in Skyward Sword revealed that Ganondorf was created from a corrupted clone of Captain Falcoln

 

[Gengar84]

Do you think 2B is too commonly predicted to really fill that surprise Joker spot? She’d definitely be exciting for a lot of people but I’m not sure she’d have that “OMG, I never expected that!” reaction Joker got. The fact that she’s been in so many crossovers already also makes her a bit less surprising for Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

Do you think 2B is too commonly predicted to really fill that surprise Joker spot? She’d definitely be exciting for a lot of people but I’m not sure she’d have that “OMG, I never expected that!” reaction Joker got.

I don't think the sheer shock of Joker will ever be recreated, honestly. At this point everything is seen as worth consideration, no matter how out there. Even if someone is seen as unlikely, all the really big candidates aren't seen as impossible anymore.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do you think 2B is too commonly predicted to really fill that surprise Joker spot? She’d definitely be exciting for a lot of people but I’m not sure she’d have that “OMG, I never expected that!” reaction Joker got. The fact that she’s been in so many crossovers already also makes her a bit less surprising for Smash.

Smash would be neither the first nor even the second fighting game she shows up in, not to mention all kinds of other collabs. Anyone who realizes all the stuff she shows up in wouldn't be too shocked to see 2B in Smash.

With that said, I think she could still be shocking to the general audience that doesn't look for these things.

 

[fogbadge]

Do you think 2B is too commonly predicted to really fill that surprise Joker spot? She’d definitely be exciting for a lot of people but I’m not sure she’d have that “OMG, I never expected that!” reaction Joker got. The fact that she’s been in so many crossovers already also makes her a bit less surprising for Smash.

smash’s surprise element is all but burned out. I think it’d take an inanimate object to be surprising

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think it’d take an inanimate object to be surprising

I have some bad news on that front

 

[Gengar84]

Elden Ring seems like a sleeper pick, mostly because most people expect Dark Souls first, though i think Malenia might be the one choosen instead of Tarnished, imagine not just having a elden ring character as the opening, but the most popular boss of the game playable, that would make some elden ring fans interested for sure.
...Then there's also Genshin Impact, which is another one that is sleept on imo.

So i guess my bets are Genshin and Elden Ring for Joker-like pass openings, and peraps Jinx and Hollow Knight too.

Does Genshin Impact have a singular standout character that would be an obvious Smash choice or are the characters all on a more or less even field? I’ve never played the game but I know it’s pretty huge. That’s one thing that’s pointing me towards Jinx. I think Arcane did a lot to endear her to a ton of fans as a character much more than just being a popular champion from her home game would have.

 

[fogbadge]

I have some bad news on that front

He can move

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Who is the most likely Final Fantasy character excluding FF7.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Does Genshin Impact have a singular standout character that would be an obvious Smash choice or are the characters all on a more or less even field? I’ve never played the game but I know it’s pretty huge. That’s one thing that’s pointing me towards Jinx. I think Arcane did a lot to endear her to a ton of fans as a character much more than just being a popular champion from her home game would have.

If not Aether and Lumine (the protagonists), I imagine Raiden Shogun would be the option. I don't play the game either but she's really popular.

 

[Kirbeh]

Who is the most likely Final Fantasy character excluding FF7.

Wakka