Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

Yet i was told again that Rayman was has-been and Crash was definitive must. Despite the former's already has a foot-in Smash already compared to Crash who still doesn't have anything. Almost as if his backing is literally banking off Banjo's inclusion.

Oh god I'm not in the mood

Crash got a Smashified video back in April 2016, two months before the N. Sane Trilogy was announced. And guess what? The N. Sane Trilogy, which sold over 10 million copies as of February 2019 (four months before Banjo was revealed, by the way), wouldn't even exist if Crash wasn't already a beloved icon in gaming history.

Again, Crash is one of the few Western game franchises to find blockbuster success in Japan. That alone should tell you that his popularity wasn't something that just magically sprung up in the Smash fandom after Banjo's reveal.

 

[Garteam]

OK, here's a question…

How would you guys feel if Kasumi from Dead or Alive made it into Smash?

Honestly, I think she'd be an interesting choice for a traditional fighting game rep, and it'd be pretty cool to hear some music from the DOA series in Smash, especially new remixes of Hitohira (Reminiscent of Ketsui no Toki) and Tehu Tehu.

Now, before you do the "good boys and girls" joke, just know that Kasumi in her OG design is more covered up than Mai Shiranui in her OG design.

I think she’s pretty slept on as far as a fightin’ rep goes. DOA was one of the few 3D fighters that could keep up with VF and Tekken in the late ‘90s and, by the early 2000s, it exploded in popularity. She was to the Xbox what Lara Croft was to the PSX.

DoA7 fell flat on its face due to microtransactions, but Sonic got in after Sonic ‘06, so I don’t think a failed entry is enough to really deter a character’s inclusion if their track record is strong.

I also don’t really think her sexualization is going to negatively affect her. Sakurai is the guy who gave us modern ZSS and Palutena. He’s clearly pretty sex positive in terms of characterKasumi also has established redesigns to comply with ratings boards.

I think the biggest issue is just that she’s very overshadowed by Ryu Hayabusa, but that wouldn’t be a problem if he also got it (presumably as a base game character or earlier DLC).

I think she’s the most likely 3D fighting game character, with Chun-Li as the most likely fighting game character period and Nakoruru as the most likely 2D fighting game character from a new franchise.

 

[Opossum]

Oh god I'm not in the mood

Crash got a Smashified video back in April 2016, two months before the N. Sane Trilogy was announced. And guess what? The N. Sane Trilogy, which sold over 10 million copies as of February 2019 (four months before Banjo was revealed, by the way), wouldn't even exist if Crash wasn't already a beloved icon in gaming history.

Again, Crash is one of the few Western game franchises to find blockbuster success in Japan. That alone should tell you that his popularity wasn't something that just magically sprung up in the Smash fandom after Banjo's reveal.

Also, and this is just an acknowledgement of the facts and not an indictment of Rayman or anything, but Rayman's spirit is far from "a foot in the door" for playability. The literal only reason he has it (and his 4 trophy) is because Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan. So in that regard he's on roughly the same level of having a foot in the door as Culdcept.

 

[Gengar84]

Dead or Alive is one of those games where I really enjoy the gameplay but I’m personally turned off by all the sexualization. To be fair, that’s not really exclusive to DoA, it seems to just be a general Fighting game thing. Plenty of games I enjoy have quite a bit of it too. Soul Calibur is particularly fanservicey but games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Killer Instinct have been themselves. I’m not sure what it is about DoA but it bothers me more in that game than the others. Of course, this is all a personal preference thing and there’s absolutely nothing wrong if that’s what you’re into. It’s just a bit much for me personally. I don’t think that would be a dealbreaker for Smash as it has already shown that they are capable of toning down characters.

 

[Will]

I have a hard time believing the chance of a certain platformer character being added is solely backed by another certain platformer character getting in the game. Especially if they’re different IPs made by different studios. All of them made their names on their own, by themselves. Just because one got in doesn’t suddenly change the dichotomy that dictates the chances of other characters.

If you were told otherwise and you take it seriously, I’m afraid you’re just gullible.

 

[Perkilator]

I have a name y'know. If you have proof for Crash's geniune support and relevancy before Banjo's reveal or the remasters i'm all ears.

The first TLOU game sold 30 million with the second game selling 10 million. One game outsold 90% of Crash's output and still getting support with TV shows and remasters from Sony favorably

Lot more vitality than Crash who basically dead in the water at Microsoft. US marketing from 30 years can only hold for so long

Oh yeah, that thing you mentioned about The Last of Us selling nearly 40 million copies? Accoring to Wikipedia's list of best-selling gaming franchises, Crash has sold at least 30 million more than Last of Us. More accurately, the list says Crash has sold 71 million units, while TLOU has sold 37 million units.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Any time Nabbitfan joins in, it always turns into a debate of sales numbers as if that was the only thing that actually mattered.

Not trying to make a point. Just making the observation

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not sure The Last of Us really translates super well to a Smash moveset. That game is pretty realistic in terms of abilities visual style so it might look kind of weird to see Joel or Ellie double jump around the battlefield. Not that it can’t be done, it’s just not as natural a fit for Smash as someone like Crash. It also doesn’t help that it’s owned by Sony who has been notoriously stingy with collaborating with other console developers. I would think Kratos or Aloy would fit Smash better if they wanted to go for a human Sony character.

 

[cashregister9]

Page 2018, the year Ultimate came out.

The passage of time is wild

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Any time Nabbitfan joins in, it always turns into a debate of sales numbers as if that was the only thing that actually mattered.

Not trying to make a point. Just making the observation

I'm not even paying attention to the conversation, but it sounds like he just really really really really wants Abby.

 

[Garteam]

I will openly admit that I’m a much bigger fan of PS1/PS2-era “make weird **** to see what sticks” Sony than PS4/PS5-era “make it like the Last of Us” Sony, so I’d much rather have Crash over the Last of Us.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not even paying attention to the conversation, but it sounds like he just really really really really wants Abby.

Good for him to have a most wanted.

But to try and stamp down every other Sony-associated rep by saying they're washed and irrelevant (reagrdless of whether that's true or not) and using the good ol' sales numbers argument as if that was the only thing that mattered when it comes to a game's impact sure ain't the way to sell your point on a character you want in this here thread.

The problem isn't that he wants Abby. The problem is that he's gatekeeping everyone we associate with Sony because they're not Abby.

 

[dream1ng]

Crash only got popular because Banjo got in. Banjo only got popular because Sonic got in. Sonic only got popular because Mario got in. Mario only got in because Sakurai's biased.

 

[Gengar84]

Good for him to have a most wanted.

But to try and stamp down every other Sony-associated rep by saying they're washed and irrelevant (reagrdless of whether that's true or not) and using the good ol' sales numbers argument as if that was the only thing that mattered when it comes to a game's impact sure ain't the way to sell your point on a character you want in this here thread.

The problem isn't that he wants Abby. The problem is that he's gatekeeping everyone we associate with Sony because they're not Abby.

Pretty much. I’m in the same boat as Nabbit but wanting Microsoft characters that aren’t commonly brought up. I’d much rather have the Battletoads, Fulgore, Joanna Dark, Illidan, Kerrigan, or Diablo than Master Chief, Crash, or Doomslayer but I don’t try to gatekeep or put down those characters just because they aren’t the ones I want most. I can understand their significance and why so many others may gravitate towards them. I also realize that the characters I want aren’t particularly likely but that’s not going to make me stop supporting them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why would they add Abby and not Joel and/or Ellie?

 

[NotGenerico]

I will openly admit that I’m a much bigger fan of PS1/PS2-era “make weird **** to see what sticks” Sony than PS4/PS5-era “make it like the Last of Us” Sony, so I’d much rather have Crash over the Last of Us.

I like Astro Bot at least. He'd be my pick if Sony somehow got a rep.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And btw, Toad and Captain Toad are not interchangeable in that the accomplishments of one will get the other included. If we got either of those characters, it would just be that character, not both of them. They're fairly distinct in what they actually do.

Completely disagree. Any Toad we get will be an amalamation of all Toads. The same way Piranha Plant was an amalgamation of many different types of Piranha Plant enemies.

I only use Captain Toad/Toadette because they're the unique members of their species who have been given unique characterization. The way Bandana Waddle Dee is for all Waddle Dees.

Take it up with Sakurai; Toad could've been included like three games ago based on his prominence within the series, and yet we've gotten a growing number of characters who fall below him in prominence. Sakurai doesn't appear to view him as a fighter, and that's who we're taking our cues from.

You can keep hope alive, but if the status quo keeps status quoing, Toad isn't going to take away from anyone in that series, Waluigi or whomever.

Right...but...you could also say all of that about Waluigi. Waluigi could also have gotten in 3 games ago but keeps getting passed over by less prominent characters. And Sakurai doesn't seem to view him as a fighter either.

Again, Waluigi has no advantages over Toad. Toad has at least a couple advantages over Waluigi(his own game, is playable in mainline Mario games).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why would they add Abby and not Joel and/or Ellie?

This is a major WHY considering Astro Bot has Joel and Ellie bots but no Abby.
i'd say "guess there's no golf clubs in the Astro universe" but there's a Hot Shots Golf bot

 

[Gengar84]

Completely disagree. Any Toad we get will be an amalamation of all Toads. The same way Piranha Plant was an amalgamation of many different types of Piranha Plant enemies.

I only use Captain Toad/Toadette because they're the unique members of their species who have been given unique characterization. The way Bandana Waddle Dee is for all Waddle Dees.

Right...but...you could also say all of that about Waluigi. Waluigi could also have gotten in 3 games ago but keeps getting passed over by less prominent characters. And Sakurai doesn't seem to view him as a fighter either.

Again, Waluigi has no advantages over Toad. Toad has at least a couple advantages over Waluigi(his own game, is playable in mainline Mario games).

Waluigi does have one important advantage over Toad you’re overlooking: Fan support. I think There’s been a much more vocal request for Waluigi in Smash than Toad. That might be because Toad is already in as part of Peach’s moveset so fans don’t see him as necessary. That fan support is the only reason why Geno has any chance at all. Ignoring Smash fans wanting him for so long, Geno has no realistic reason to chosen over any number of other Mario or Square-Enix characters since he was a side character in one game on the SNES (and a remake). Waluigi has that same fan support and many more appearances plus he’s fully owned by Nintendo.

 

[dezeray112]

DoA7 fell flat on its face due to microtransactions, but Sonic got in after Sonic ‘06, so I don’t think a failed entry is enough to really deter a character’s inclusion if their track record is strong.

Are you referring to DoA6 as that was the last entry that came from the franchise?

If so, I will also add that there were plenty of other issues that DoA6 suffered that include lack of content in contrast to its previous entry as well as the incident which happened during EVO Japan that led to a lot of controversy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Are you referring to DoA6 as that was the last entry that came from the franchise?

If so, I will also add that there were plenty of other issues that DoA6 suffered that include lack of content in contrast to its previous entry as well as the incident which happened during EVO Japan that led to a lot of controversy.

What was this incident anyway?

 

[mynameisBlade]

I have had the funniest feeling since Ultimate concluded that our next Mario rep WILL be Toad/Captain Toad just so Sakurai can spite the Waluigi fans again. Maybe even a Goomba after that... Poor Waluigi... I love him but that doesn't stop him from looking, sounding, and fitting right in to every meme ever conceived.. :/

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thinking about it, Joel and Ellie would be so funny in Smash.

Ellie: "Hey Joel look! I found this sick martial arts tournament that has all these cool creatures I've never seen before. I mean, look at this little guy. He's so cute!"
Pikachu: "Pika!"
Joel: "You found a wha-IS THAT A PIKACHU?!?"

 

[DarthEnderX]

Waluigi does have one important advantage over Toad you’re overlooking: Fan support.

I think Waluigi is one of those characters like Geno who has way more support inside the Smash speculation community than they do among casual Smash fans.

So the question is, IS that an important advantage? It's a pretty safe bet that Sakurai doesn't read forums like these. The only time it really felt like fan demand was taken into account was during the Ballot. And the Ballot was something that specifically reached beyond the normal Smash speculation community and reached pretty much all gamers.

 

[Gengar84]

I have had the funniest feeling since Ultimate concluded that our next Mario rep WILL be Toad/Captain Toad just so Sakurai can spite the Waluigi fans again. Maybe even a Goomba after that... Poor Waluigi... I love him but that doesn't stop him from looking, sounding, and fitting right in to every meme ever conceived.. :/

I can only speak for myself but Goomba is my most wanted Mario character. I’ll also gladly take Goombella or Dr. Goomba Tower. I’ve just always loved those little things.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Thinking about it, Joel and Ellie would be so funny in Smash.

Ellie: "Hey Joel look! I found this sick martial arts tournament that has all these cool creatures I've never seen before. I mean, look at this little guy. He's so cute!"
Pikachu: "Pika!"
Joel: "You found a wha-IS THAT A PIKACHU?!?"

Ellie seeing Toad: "AHH! CLICKER!"

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Joel and Ellie in Smash,literally don't really works so well,being a story focused game,the gimmick of Joel being more playable than Ellie sounds good,and for choose a video game series that is zombie apocalypse-themed,i could choose Resident Evil and Plants VS Zombies,and for a Sony games series that have a human protag,it could be Kat from Gravity Rush or Kratos from God of War (mainly the Greek era games),Aloy i don't really know,she can works as assist trophy

 

[Garteam]

Are you referring to DoA6 as that was the last entry that came from the franchise?

If so, I will also add that there were plenty of other issues that DoA6 suffered that include lack of content in contrast to its previous entry as well as the incident which happened during EVO Japan that led to a lot of controversy.

Yeah, that’s the one I was thinking of. Thanks for catching that.

 

[dezeray112]

What was this incident anyway?

I believe it was related to this:

Evo Japan cuts inappropriate Dead or Alive 6 stream; co-founder issues apology

Evo Japan pulled its stream from Twitch temporarily on Friday after several inappropriate moments involving the presenters of a promotion for Dead or Alive 6.

www.espn.com

"Evo Japan took down its stream from Twitch temporarily on Friday after several inappropriate moments involving the presenters of a promotion for soon-to-be-released fighting game Dead or Alive 6."

 

[Gengar84]

Joel and Ellie in Smash,literally don't really works so well,being a story focused game,the gimmick of Joel being more playable than Ellie sounds good,and for choose a video game series that is zombie apocalypse-themed,i could choose Resident Evil and Plants VS Zombies,and for a Sony games series that have a human protag,it could be Kat from Gravity Rush or Kratos from God of War (mainly the Greek era games),Aloy i don't really know,she can works as assist trophy

Aloy does have the advantage of Nintendo presence through LEGO Horizons. Plus, who could complain about a stage with huge robot dinosaurs in the background? That’s just awesome.

 

[Will]

Ellie seeing Toad: "AHH! CLICKER!"

Luigi, watching Toad take a point blank shotgun blast to the face:

 

[dream1ng]

Right...but...you could also say all of that about Waluigi. Waluigi could also have gotten in 3 games ago but keeps getting passed over by less prominent characters. And Sakurai doesn't seem to view him as a fighter either.

Again, Waluigi has no advantages over Toad. Toad has at least a couple advantages over Waluigi(his own game, is playable in mainline Mario games).

Wow, you thought we could've got him in Brawl and that he's above Rosalina and Bowser Jr? Even though both of those characters show up in mainline Mario and Rosalina has even been playable?

You're an even bigger Waluigi supporter than most people here. xD

Because most people would argue that Toad is the fifth most prominent Mario character and would've made a lot of sense to come after Peach and Bowser. I guess you don't feel that way, because to believe those things means he's obviously is getting deliberately passed over by other characters.

Unless... you think Waluigi is the fifth most prominent Mario character? And he would've made a lot of sense to come after Peach and Bowser? I mean, if you could say the same about him as you could Toad...

Again, Waluigi has no advantages over Toad.

Waluigi is the most requested first-party character.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I can only speak for myself but Goomba is my most wanted Mario character. I’ll also gladly take Goombella or Dr. Goomba Tower. I’ve just always loved those little things.

Ngl Goombella would be LIT!!!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ellie seeing Toad: "AHH! CLICKER!"

gets sprayed with the spores from Toad Shield
Ellie: "Well it's a good thing I'm immune..."


This just makes me want them in the game with a Codex/Palutena's Guidance type Easter Egg where they talk about either the other fighters, or the stages.

 

[Ivander]

Waluigi is the most requested first-party character.

I thought it was Brash the Bear with over 1 brashillion requests.

 

[Will]

If Waluigi doesn’t make it in this next game I will officially give up.

 

[Gengar84]

Ngl Goombella would be LIT!!!

Sadly, I think she actually has less moveset potential than a basic Goomba despite being an original character. Goombas have a ton of variations you can pull from for the moveset where Goombella’s moveset was pretty limited in Paper Mario. Maybe she can borrow those Goomba variation abilities as well and we can get a basic Goomba as an alt or the other way around. Goombella is easily one of my favorite first party characters.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

So we're talking about Sony reps, huh?


Don't listen to em buddy, you'll always be the number 1 rep in my heart

 

[dream1ng]

I thought it was Brash the Bear with over 1 brashillion requests.

No no, you misheard, it was with over 1 Brazilian requests.

Two Brazilians want him.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Sadly, I think she actually has less moveset potential than a basic Goomba despite being an original character. Goombas have a ton of variations you can pull from for the moveset where Goombella’s moveset was pretty limited in Paper Mario. Maybe she can borrow those Goomba variation abilities as well and we can get a basic Goomba as an alt or the other way around.

Sakurai could work his magic. She unarguably has much more to her than a basic Goomba.