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You offer a free DLC character and the third-party back-end becomes zero, at least for that window wherein they're free - which is also when the most people would get that character. I don't see any third-party being the bonus DLC character. Let alone a Square one.
I mean you go to the trouble to license a character from a major company and it's this random Mario side character that doesn't even appear in all the usual spinoff stuff, let alone anything mainline. It's not hard to see that being confusing or even controversial to fans outside Geno's hardcore fanbase. His niche nature is such that if you're not in his fan bubble then it's less likely he'd be appealing than more widely known characters who often garner general acceptance even from those who don't consider them personal favorites.
I agree Geno fits better as base, when you can bundle in less familiar characters instead of them selling based solely on their own (limited) appeal.
I feel like Hero might be base game, and potentially Sora as well (including him here even though he's technically Disney, not Square for character rights, but yeah), and then Cloud and Sephiroth would be a DLC together with their content to make it a higher price because FF7 Remake is still going on, and then an additional DLC character later on like 2B.
It depends if they're going to hold any new supporting content hostage until DLC, like I think they did for FF. That works better when there's another character from that series who can bring the content in their pack.
I hope she joins, a puzzle rep would be cool to have too.Jokes aside - how do I feel about Arle's chances? Not bad, really. I still think everything that I argued in Arle's favor back then is true - Puyo Puyo is one of the most historically significant and successful Japanese IP absent from the game. It literally has larger brand recognition and marketability than Sonic the Hedgehog in Japan. Puyo Puyo Tsuu is a staple of Japanese arcades on par with Street Fighter II, the series was so big in the 90s that they were going to build an amusement park. I'm not even kidding.
Its history with Nintendo is strong too. Despite being tied so closely with Sega, it did see ports on just about every major Nintendo console. And I mean like... every Nintendo console, I think Virtual Boy is the only one in Nintendo's history not to have a Puyo Puyo game on it. Not to mention Nintendo's own ventures into the cutesy, competitive puzzle game world with Panel de Pon and, yes, their own reskin of Puyo Puyo with Kirby.
Arle has every credential in the world to be in Smash. But with Nintendo and Smash alike focusing more on a worldwide / western demographic, I do have my concerns about whether or not Puyo Puyo is the first thing on their mind given its skewed (albeit massive) eastern notoriety. Sega has been citing their major pillars as Sonic, Yakuza and Persona despite Puyo Puyo being, at least on paper, bigger than all but one of them (and even that is arguable, regionally speaking). The series is in a sort of limbo right now with its last venture being Apple Arcade exclusive, and the previous two major series entries being Tetris crossovers. Where do we go from here? On the bright side though, at least Puyo has made a habit of localizing each release. Puyo Tetris 2 had a simultaneous global release and the Apple Arcade game was even developed by Sega of America and written first in English, believe it or not.
I think Arle has some competition. If more than one Sega character is a concern, I do think someone else from Sonic is the prevailing candidate right now. And DLC wise, I think Arle slots in nicely as a Terry-esque historical pick to school some uninformed Smash fans on. But all the same, Yakuza has been growing exponentially and if there is an opportunity to add it I think it could take priority. I feel like Puyo and Yakuza have somewhat equivalent merit measured in different units, and personally I'd love to see them both make the cut, but I do also consider it Arle's strongest competition.
Bottom line, I'm feeling okay about her odds. Not spectacular, but she's still in the back of my mind as a character who could and should be on the radar. And really, Puyo Puyo is just such a natural fit for Smash Bros that I'm baffled it doesn't have even a spirit to its name. I'm sure that one way or another, it will see some recognition next game or else something is seriously wrong.
And look, if we can get Master Chief, then we can throw Japan a bone and given them Arle. But by Japan I mostly mean me.
I was making a joke pretending not to know her, she's the character in my icon and my most wanted third party addition. She's the main character of perhaps the most influential puzzle game series in the world after Tetris.
I would be very surprised if Cloud didn't return. The question is just whether Nintendo would capitulate to whatever Square would ask in return for putting him in base instead of their presumably preferred method of DLC.
I think DoA 6 had the problem of trying to tone back on the fanservice to make it more tournament-viable, except they didn't really tone in back that much, followed by a risque ad at EVO screwing it's chances entirely due to not fitting in with the event's "core values" (Though for what it's worth, they skipped the DoA trailer and showed friggin' Mortal Kombat completely uncensored. Take that as you will). After that the series went dormant.
Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising and Soul Calibur 6 sold me on 2B as a fighting game character. She's also honestly one of the most iconic characters of the 2010s along the likes of Sans, i think she would be a good adition.
Square has been willing to cooperate, negotiate and compromise, I think they just come from a place of being particular about policies they hold.
That's very much personal opinions though, not supported by facts. For starters Waluigi has a game like every other Mario character in consideration, he just doesn't star in his own game however... neither has more than half of Smash - and neither has more than half of the Mario cast specifically. So I don't know why make such a big deal out of Waluigi specifically not starring in his own game as a point against him
"Toad has his own game. Waluigi does not." is not a personal opinion.
Because it's something Toad has that Waluigi does not. While there's nothing Waluigi has that Toad doesn't. Because Toad is also in pretty much all the sports/party games that Waluigi is in.
I can't believe Automata was 8 years ago...
I'm personally holding onto the hope that Arle edges out anyone from Like a Dragon thanks to timing plus demand. Assuming the newcomers for 6 that Nintendo negotiates for are at least partially decided on "the hot topics" during Ultimate speculation, it's absolutely no contest--Arle was pretty much the one non-Sonic SEGA character that I recall seeing serious support and demand for. Meanwhile, support for Like a Dragon series characters was nothing more than grassroots, primarily because of Nagoshi's outspoken resistance to porting the series to the Switch after 1+2 on the Wii U bombed--even after Nagoshi left SEGA, it took until last year for the series to finally reappear on Nintendo systems.Jokes aside - how do I feel about Arle's chances? Not bad, really. I still think everything that I argued in Arle's favor back then is true - Puyo Puyo is one of the most historically significant and successful Japanese IP absent from the game. It literally has larger brand recognition and marketability than Sonic the Hedgehog in Japan. Puyo Puyo Tsuu is a staple of Japanese arcades on par with Street Fighter II, the series was so big in the 90s that they were going to build an amusement park. I'm not even kidding.
Its history with Nintendo is strong too. Despite being tied so closely with Sega, it did see ports on just about every major Nintendo console. And I mean like... every Nintendo console, I think Virtual Boy is the only one in Nintendo's history not to have a Puyo Puyo game on it. Not to mention Nintendo's own ventures into the cutesy, competitive puzzle game world with Panel de Pon and, yes, their own reskin of Puyo Puyo with Kirby.
Arle has every credential in the world to be in Smash. But with Nintendo and Smash alike focusing more on a worldwide / western demographic, I do have my concerns about whether or not Puyo Puyo is the first thing on their mind given its skewed (albeit massive) eastern notoriety. Sega has been citing their major pillars as Sonic, Yakuza and Persona despite Puyo Puyo being, at least on paper, bigger than all but one of them (and even that is arguable, regionally speaking). The series is in a sort of limbo right now with its last venture being Apple Arcade exclusive, and the previous two major series entries being Tetris crossovers. Where do we go from here? On the bright side though, at least Puyo has made a habit of localizing each release. Puyo Tetris 2 had a simultaneous global release and the Apple Arcade game was even developed by Sega of America and written first in English, believe it or not.
I think Arle has some competition. If more than one Sega character is a concern, I do think someone else from Sonic is the prevailing candidate right now. And DLC wise, I think Arle slots in nicely as a Terry-esque historical pick to school some uninformed Smash fans on. But all the same, Yakuza has been growing exponentially and if there is an opportunity to add it I think it could take priority. I feel like Puyo and Yakuza have somewhat equivalent merit measured in different units, and personally I'd love to see them both make the cut, but I do also consider it Arle's strongest competition.
Bottom line, I'm feeling okay about her odds. Not spectacular, but she's still in the back of my mind as a character who could and should be on the radar. And really, Puyo Puyo is just such a natural fit for Smash Bros that I'm baffled it doesn't have even a spirit to its name. I'm sure that one way or another, it will see some recognition next game or else something is seriously wrong.
And look, if we can get Master Chief, then we can throw Japan a bone and given them Arle. But by Japan I mostly mean me.
I was making a joke pretending not to know her, she's the character in my icon and my most wanted third party addition. She's the main character of perhaps the most influential puzzle game series in the world after Tetris.
Because people will fabricate any justification they can to deny Waluigi simply because they don't like him.
Or maybe I'm just citing a reason to support Toad, because I like him.
Or it's just gatecrashing Toad.
Id hope they throw in some remixes of Madou songs in there too.
Does hard drugs?So I googled this character and to my surprise a cutesy anime character, who would've thought this ? Japan voted this character massively after all. But what is even this lol
Take it up with Sakurai; Toad could've been included like three games ago based on his prominence within the series, and yet we've gotten a growing number of characters who fall below him in prominence. Sakurai doesn't appear to view him as a fighter, and that's who we're taking our cues from.
Make it four games even. Based on prominence and relevancy, Toad would've been a very sensible inclusion already from Melee (I mean heck he already was a background character and debuted as part of Peach's moveset) and yet even then he was snubbed, of course later inclusions aren't even up for discussion since as you said we got secondary characters before him which does say a lot about how Sakurai views Toad
Compile wouldn't exist at all, The President of Compile, Masamitsu Niitani is a known Charlatan that abused employees and made the company go into millions dollars in debt and eventually bankruptcy. There was recent callout post by a bunch of former Compile staff calling him out for lying because hes always comes into the media making up sob stories to make people feel bad for him so they can support his new company Compile O. Lies include claiming "hes the creator of Puyo Puyo" or that "Sega stole Puyo Puyo from him". Mooniitani eventually was forced out of Compile Heart cause of in-fighting.
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Cloud didn't get in because of a remake. But yes, remakes rarely ever get dedicated promotional reps in Smash. A one-time remake of a niche Mario spinoff title put out to help fill in the back end of a system's lifecycle shouldn't normally have any meaningful bearing on speculation, but its importance gets blown way out of proportion because Geno appears as a side character in it.
Thank you for informing me about this, I had heard rumblings that Moo was a bit of a ******* but I had no idea how deep it goes. I was mainly bringing it up since Compile pretty much played all sides in the console wars up to their demise, but now I can pretty much see they were forced to because of the financial situation they're in. Though honestly it stinks even more since now I could see things being a lot better for Puyo fans if Niitani was ousted before major damage could be done.Compile wouldn't exist at all, The President of Compile, Masamitsu Niitani is a known Charlatan that abused employees and made the company go into millions dollars in debt and eventually bankruptcy. There was recent callout post by a bunch of former Compile staff calling him out for lying because hes always comes into the media making up sob stories to make people feel bad for him so they can support his new company Compile O. Lies include claiming "hes the creator of Puyo Puyo" or that "Sega stole Puyo Puyo from him". Mooniitani eventually was forced out of Compile Heart cause of in-fighting.
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Yonemitsu is the actual creator of Puyo Puyo. Sega actually funded and supported Compile for the longest time, that includes SEGA AM1 helping with the development of the first Puyo and even giving Compile access to reuse the code from Columns in Puyo. Sega developers like Yuji Naka even trained many old compile staff in programming which made him heavily respected by them and why they were 100% okay with him making the calls to buy the Puyo IP.
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Yonemitsu also created Baroque on the Sega Saturn btw.
I mean yes after Peach and Bowser is when I think he would've made sense. But I don't think he's really on par with them, and it would've been the third original Mario newcomer in that game... which seems a little overly ambitious.
I'd trade all the DLC Capcom got for an actual new original character from them. At least Sega got one.
That series didn't even start getting localized until Sega took it over. Plus, it's Compile. I think there'd be even less of a chance if Sega didn't own the IP now.
Idk, Yakuza is the one that has the more worldwide popularity. Puyo Puyo is still pretty Japan-heavy.
I feel like crossing it over with Tetris was the best chance to get more people, especially outside Japan, to play it.
DOA's been dead for a while now. They went way too far on all the fanservice like $60-70 season passes that had dozens of skimpy outfits for the female cast with the bare minimum given to the men. This was also around the time they tried to do the whole "I'm a fighter" marketing campaign thing and well... can't do that when not only are you plastering that slogan on cheerleader outfits but you're doing all the aforementioned season passes. DOA5 was actually a solid competitive game so they sunk their own ship there.
I like Kasumi, so if DOA were to have a rep, I'd pick her.
The series is developed by 10 people or less. One of the reasons why so many companies were so desperate to get the Tetris license is because making puzzles games is CHEAP and easy money. The development cost for making a Puyo game is small enough were Sega may feel like not wanting to make risk a huge positive for them. Of course they probably should do a Puyo 8 at this point. I dont really think Sega is responsible for there IPs getting smash or not though, its more on Nintendo.
Its a series that originated as dungeon crawler about witches, sorcerers, wizards, etc. You could do alot with that.
Drug dealers are called Draco Centaurus now? And accept severed dog heads as payment ? Curious.
knowing how square-enix prefer their content its probably more likely as DLC like
was the last veteran they managed to get in ultimate so i feel any new square-enix rep is bound to be DLC because it makes more money for them i guess and we all have seen how we barely gotten anything beside just Geno and Mallow spirits in base ultimate in fact we dont even have square-enix assist trophy or new music when it came down to square-enix content in base game (unless if you count the later spirits event but that came way later).
I'll confess to not knowing the ins and outs of this process, I'm not an insider. I'm just not sure the lack of anything SEGA after the Joker Challenger Pack, even something minor like a RGG or Puyo or Sakura Wars spirit event seems like something "in-character" for Nintendo when this is the same company that gladly makes you pay an Expansion Pack to play a good selection of Genesis titles. Not to mention that SEGA stuff immediately drying up is compounded with how Sonic's series still has the minimum in some aspects, as well.
This is why I specifically brought up popularity in Smash speculation circles. The amount of recognizability a character has, while it is a good factor, is not always the sole deciding factor of who gets in, especially when we have cases of Smash-specific demand superseding general recognizability.
I think the main thing is just...using the characters from a branding/marketing aspect for more than just gacha crossovers. I'm not saying they should shove Arle and Amitie in Fortnite right away, but the hard truth is that it feels like Puyo has been historically treated as lesser in SEGA crossover games and similar aspects. None of the characters appear in any of the Sega Superstars/All-Stars games, at best you'll have a small Puyo minigame or a Garbage Puyo cameo as an item in the Japanese version of one of the games. None of the Puyo characters appear as guest characters in either recent Monkey Ball title (so far), Puyo Puyo wasn't included in that defunct Sega Heroes game...I know Like a Dragon was stiffed sometimes as well in that regard (zero presence in any of the Superstars/All-Stars games), but you know what's a game that did include those characters while still snubbing Puyo's cast? Project X Zone. Sonic as a guest in Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 is...a baby step towards something meaningful. I would love to see a traditional RPG starring Arle and friends, or other non-puzle spinoffs, but honestly I'd be happy with just the bare minimum of letting Puyo's characters appear in other things that don't tie back into Quest. It's...just tiring to see a pretty legendary Japanese arcade series not at least get something a little more to reflect its merits, or something to help increase international visibility for it like how they managed to do it for Like a Dragon.
Well first of all, Nintendo picks everything. I'm sure the third-parties can make suggestions, and occasionally you do see like a spirit event that was clearly promotional, but it's almost always Nintendo/Sakurai choosing stuff.
The key difference is Mega Man and Banjo were, I believe, the second most requested third-party newcomers overall among their respective results. And that was after the first was already included (Sonic) or seemingly unsuccessfully attempted (Sora).
I understand. It would be nice if Sega's crossover games actually tried to include all their noteworthy franchises.
I don't have the numbers, so this is just a guess, but might that be because the games don't sell particularly well in the west?
I always assume that was just speculation based on patterns rather then it actually being confirmedknowing how square-enix prefer their content its probably more likely as DLC like
Hilarious to hear to this after of literal pages before when I told that popularity wasn't the end of all when I criticized Sora and Banjo's placement on the ballot. Every words and every letter here applies to Banjo specifically to equal amount of games and being niche third party but I was some how delusional in questioning his position like most here are with the Puppetman despite similar circumstances. Geno is impossible because he's an internet relic but somehow Banjo who also solely relied on the same thing was definitely 2nd place beyond all VG's characters conceivable. Definitely greater than Inkling, Isabelle, Minecraft Steve and Ryu. Because He was okay!?!
Yet i was told again that Rayman was has-been and Crash was definitive must. Despite the former's already has a foot-in Smash already compared to Crash who still doesn't have anything. Almost as if his backing is literally banking off Banjo's inclusion.
I think both have a reasonable chance but I’d lean towards Crash specifically because of that rivalry angle. I don’t know if you remember that old PS1 Crash commercial where a guy in a Crash suit was at Nintendo’s headquarters calling out Mario. He was also positioned with Mario and Sonic as the face of their respective consoles on magazine covers. At the time, Rayman was getting advertisements comparing him to a guy named Ray, which, while it was pretty amusing, doesn’t have that same rival vibe.
