Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Laniv]

Wait wait wait wait who know who really needs to be in Crossworlds?

These little hoodlums

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Of course! By the way, about Infinite...

x.com

x.com

It seems Morio Kishimoto, the current director of Sonic games, would like to see Infinite again in a future game, or games. I'd say that would still be contrived, don't you think?

In this case I'd like it best if this game was set in the past before Infinite became affiliated with the Eggman empire. That, at least, would be neat.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

King Boo could have the ability to summon Boos, and his attacks would do more damage based on the number of Boos around him.
Twintelle could slow down opponents with her smash attacks, if they're next to her when she starts charging.
Crazy Dave could have resource management by having sun fall from the sky he needs to collect, which he spends by planting plants.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

In this case I'd like it best if this game was set in the past before Infinite became affiliated with the Eggman empire. That, at least, would be neat.

I'd have to say that I agree all the way there. that could potentially make him more interesting. Also, maybe they can expand on him wanting to be strong like how he said he did not like being called weak in such a game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just want to know what a Zeti is.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

I just want to know what a Zeti is.

They were originally going to be called the Oni from what I read, but that was disliked, so they went with Zeti.

Pink Yoshi Speaking on focusing on a villain's past, do you think that could work for the Deadly Six if done right? Showing a backstory for those characters is something I think would be rather interesting.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You literally asked me why I couldn't imagine them making one now, I explained my thought process. This isn't hard.

Your thought process is basically "I can't imagine it because it didn't happen for some reason". We...know it didn't happen. We're talking about if it did.

I have no idea what game this is even referring to. If it's Mario Kart Tour, it had at least 200 million downloads and made at least 200 million dollars, which is equivalent to at least 3.33 million copies of a normal 60 dollar game, and that number probably isn't even accurate, plus it's a smart phone game.

Are you seriously using Home Circuit to hit me with a "gotcha" about Mario Kart? Wow, I'm so shocked that the game that requires you to buy a 100 dollar RC car to race around your living room sold so little comparatively. Give me a break, dude.

Why does that matter? So now all of a sudden, sells is not all that important now? But that's what happens when you're so hung up on that argument. Sells is not the one and only factor here. A game doesn't need to outsell the best in order to compete with the series. A game just has be successful enough to be seen as a competitor and yes, when it came to the racing games, the All-Star games was this to Mario Kart. Same thing with the Crash Team Racing and Mario Kart 64. Despite the difference in sells, they were still a match for each other.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I just want to know what a Zeti is.

It's currently up for debate, but I am leaning towards 'alien species'. In the past, Sega suggested that IDW could make their own Zeti if they wanted to, which IDW elected not to do. Like SSF said, they were initially meant to be Oni, BUT they decided to make them something new and different.

Speaking on focusing on a villain's past, do you think that could work for the Deadly Six if done right? Showing a backstory for those characters is something I think would be rather interesting.

I would LOVE to see a game about how the D6 met and decided to work together. I need to see these six's team dynamic in action. At one point in SLW, Zavok refers to them as his 'brothers' so they're definitely close!

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Swamp Sensei https://web.archive.org/web/20131027094607/https://www.4gamer.net/games/216/G021674/20131025048/

"4Gamer:
Are they the so-called Japanese demons?
Iizuka:
Yes. They are a race called "Zeti," but in the early stages of development we just called them "oni." We actually wanted to name the race "oni," but we received opposition from overseas, so we ended up with the current name.
4Gamer:
Was "oni" not good enough?
Iizuka:
The word "oni" is not used overseas either."

Here is the source for the Oni thing, translated into English, of course.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Here’s another option if they can’t do Alear for whatever reason:
View attachment 399039

Timerra would be amazing. My favorite character in Engage by a longshot. It also helps she has Ike. I might have always preferred Dimitri as a lance Fire Emblem fighter, but Timerra would be even better.

Probably won't happen tho. But I'd wish.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I just want to know what a Zeti is.

A Gen Z Yeti.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Why does that matter? So now all of a sudden, sells is not all that important now? But that's what happens when you're so hung up on that argument. Sells is not the one and only factor here. A game doesn't need to outsell the best in order to compete with the series. A game just has be successful enough to be seen as a competitor and yes, when it came to the racing games, the All-Star games was this to Mario Kart. Same thing with the Crash Team Racing and Mario Kart 64.

Except it isn't because they don't make All-Stars Racing games anymore.

And if we're talking about when it was ongoing, I don't typically consider the original getting outsold by Mario Kart Wii 37 to 1 much competition. An alternative option sure, and a fun one at that, but certainly not a realistic competitor.

"Oh, well what about Transformed?"
Outsold 8 to 1 by the original Mario Kart 8 on Nintendo's biggest console flop of all time.

"Well what about the racing games now?"
I can't find much data on Team Sonic Racing aside from it being part of Sonic's 4.4 million units figure in 2021 alongside Mania, Generations, and Tokyo 2020, but even with that 4.4 million figure for all of those four games, MK8 Deluxe still trounces it like 16.75 to 1, let alone TSR by itself.

Like sorry you don't wanna hear that a theoretical Fighters Megamix 2 would not be a realistic competitor to SUPER SMASH BROS., but that's just the realistic brunt of it.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'd like a new Megamix, not for competition but because it'd be funny.

 

[Ivander]

I just want to know what a Zeti is.

It's what comes after Yeti, which follows Xeti.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I should also mention that while they are pretty widely disliked, the D6 definitely do have their fans outside of lil' ol me, and not just the weirdos who make saucy art of Zeena.

On Tumblr and DeviantART, they have sizable followings. I've seen some of it for myself.

 

[dream1ng]

Your thought process is basically "I can't imagine it because it didn't happen for some reason". We...know it didn't happen. We're talking about if it did.

It's hard to imagine figuratively as in it seems unlikely they would opt to make one now, not literally like my brain shuts down when I try to envision AiAi and NiGHTS fighting on some Jet Set Radio stage.

Why does that matter? So now all of a sudden, sells is not all that important now? But that's what happens when you're so hung up on that argument. Sells is not the one and only factor here. A game doesn't need to outsell the best in order to compete with the series. A game just has be successful enough to be seen as a competitor and yes, when it came to the racing games, the All-Star games was this to Mario Kart. Same thing with the Crash Team Racing and Mario Kart 64.

If you're getting beat 37 to 1, or even 17 to 1, that's not genuine competition so much as just both doing the same thing at very different levels. It's like a premier league team playing a team like four divisions down.

 

[BrawlX10]

So, what Pokemon do you want as Pokeball Pokemon next Smash Bros., guys?

EDIT: Happy 2000 pages, everyone!

Rillaboom
Falinks
Dragapult
Ursaluna
Iron Bundle
Toedscool

Pokemon that i actively don't want to return:
Keldeo
...all my homies hate his attack.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Except it isn't because they don't make All-Stars Racing games anymore.

Hence; the was in my post.

Though they did just announced a new Sonic racing game.

And if we're talking about when it was ongoing, I don't typically consider the original getting outsold by Mario Kart Wii 37 to 1 much competition. An alternative option sure, and a fun one at that, but certainly not a realistic competitor.

Wait, you're still going by sells but then you say it's a fun, alternative option? And it sold over a million a copies? For a first game, that's pretty darn good. That's competition right there.

"Oh, well what about Transformed?"
Outsold 8 to 1 by the original Mario Kart 8 on Nintendo's biggest console flop of all time.

How was the game itself?

"Well what about the racing games now?"
I can't find much data on Team Sonic Racing aside from it being part of Sonic's 4.4 million units figure in 2021 alongside Mania, Generations, and Tokyo 2020, but even with that 4.4 million figure for all of those four games, MK8 Deluxe still trounces it like 16.75 to 1, let alone TSR by itself.

Like sorry you don't wanna hear that a theoretical Fighters Megamix 2 would not be a realistic competitor to SUPER SMASH BROS., but that's just the realistic brunt of it.

I guess you keep missing the part where I said it doesn't have to outsell Nintendo's game. Just sell enough to be seen as a competitor. I also noticed how you completely ignored by my Crash Team Racing example, a game that was a clear competitor to Mario Kart 64, yet you'd got be crazy if you think sells mean that it wasn't.

 

[Noipoi]

So, what Pokemon do you want as Pokeball Pokemon next Smash Bros., guys?

EDIT: Happy 2000 pages, everyone!

Dragapult
Toxtricity
Sirfetch’d
Tinkaton
Gholdengo
Iron Bundle
Roaring Moon

Just to name a few

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I guess you keep missing the part where I said it doesn't have to outsell Nintendo's game. Just sell enough to be seen as a competitor. I also noticed how you completely ignored by my Crash Team Racing example, a game that was a clear competitor to Mario Kart 64, yet you'd got be crazy if you think sells mean that it wasn't.

1.36 million vs 37 million is NOT a competitor, which is why I called it an alternative option.

Crash Team Racing is probably the only one you've mentioned that might actually be seen as a competitor because it sold 4 million to Mario Kart 64's 9.8-ish million, which means it's about 2-2.5 to 1 instead of THIRTY SEVEN TO ONE.

As for your points of "how was the game itself?" I already said I like the All-Stars Racing games, but you've apparently completely ignored that. I've not once said they were bad games, I like both the original and Transformed a lot, but they are NOT competition for Mario Kart. Especially Team Sonic Racing, since even by your nebulous standards, most people didn't like that the Team gameplay was forced, and none of the three games retained an online playerbase for very long, unlike Mario Kart.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

SEGA has characters from plenty of well-known series that would easily draw attention to it. People grew up on a lot of those games.

But, not to the same extent as Nintendo.

If people enjoyed those action games in the past, I'm not going to somehow doubt that people won't enjoy them now.

The problem's that "action game" is a pretty broad. Creating a good, say, beat 'em up game doesn't mean you can create a good fighting game. Virtua Fighter might exist but they'll have to do more than just copy its gameplay.

 

[Arcanir]

To be fair, I do like both, I just haven't played Sonic Lost World, and have played Sonic Forces so I know more about Infinite than Zavok...despite him technically being in both games.

Although, Zavok probably has more potential than Infinite does from this point on since The Deadly 6 still have the ability to have their dynamics fleshed out and their stories better executed, while Infinite is dead, had his power source destroyed, and already attempted to have his story told. Even if you retcon his death and give him a new power source, you still have the issue of him being in much the same place as where he started which forces him into the same arc they attempted before.

I think with Infinite what they could do is expand on him as a mercenary leader. It gave him something unique from the other antagonists and they could use that angle to have him persue strength and power via his personal influence to amass his personal troupe.

It's just that I don't think they could do it as they fumbled him so hard it'd be hard to take him seriously. With the Deadly Six all they need is better writing (which is why I think they're more successful in the comics, especially Zavok), but Infinite would need an overhaul as a character to be capable of being a threat to most fans and that'd be tough to pull off.

 

[BrawlX10]

I don't want to be rude...but do we really need drama of a hypotetical sega smash bros going on for like 2-3 pages in the speculation thread?

 

[dream1ng]

I don't want to be rude...but do we really need drama of a hypotetical sega smash bros going on for like 2-3 pages in the speculation thread?

No let's talk about cuts

 

[Arcanir]

So, what Pokemon do you want as Pokeball Pokemon next Smash Bros., guys?

EDIT: Happy 2000 pages, everyone!

Urshifu. You summon it, it KOs you through your shield.

Offhand:
Corviknight
Hatterene
Grimmsnarl
Dracovish
Dragapult
Lokix
Palafin
Roaring Moon
Iron Valiant
Ursaluna Bloodmoon

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I don't want to be rude...but do we really need drama of a hypotetical sega smash bros going on for like 2-3 pages in the speculation thread?

Yeah I didn't really intend to get stuck in drama, I just heard my name called in a Deadly Six discussion and popped in to say my piece.

These days I don't typically show up here unless my name gets called. Though by the time Smash 6 is explicitly cooking, you might catch me making newcomer threads.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

No let's talk about cuts

Keep KillKiss

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't want to be rude...but do we really need drama of a hypotetical sega smash bros going on for like 2-3 pages in the speculation thread?

Yes.

You could and I'll just remind you of Fighters Megamix. lol

Do you...think Fighters Megamix was popular?

Fighters Megamix, however, was among one of the best selling games on the Saturn in Japan.

That's your metric? You gonna tell us about some smash hit 3DO games next?

And why are you so sure that a SEGA crossover fighting game is going to fail?

A better question is why is Sega so sure it would fail?

FFS, they're just now making a sequel to their most popular fighting game franchise after 20 years.

 

[BrawlX10]

No let's talk about cuts

I'm not annoyed by people talking about a SEGA super smash bros, i'm annoyed at the pointless drama for i think 2-3 pages at this point about a user upset why it doesn't exist yet, like i feel there's times that is just better moving on instead of agreeing back and forth, just me.

 

[Wonder Smash]

1.36 million vs 37 million is NOT a competitor, which is why I called it an alternative option.

If it's not a competitor, then why would it be an alternative? It's that inferior.

Crash Team Racing is probably the only one you've mentioned that might actually be seen as a competitor because it sold 4 million to Mario Kart 64's 9.8-ish million, which means it's about 2-2.5 to 1 instead of THIRTY SEVEN TO ONE.

So now you saying a game DOESN'T have to outsell another to be seen as a competitor? Just be successful enough to be seen as a competitor?

I'm glad to see we're making some progress here.

As for your points of "how was the game itself?" I already said I like the All-Stars Racing games, but you've apparently completely ignored that. I've not once said they were bad games, I like both the original and Transformed a lot, but they are NOT competition for Mario Kart. Especially Team Sonic Racing, since even by your nebulous standards, most people didn't like that the Team gameplay was forced, and none of the three games retained an online playerbase for very long, unlike Mario Kart.

I was talking about that specific game, not the series in general. However, you keep going on about sells and then say they're good games. This doesn't mix up all that well. Yet, they do sell well to keep making sequels and are seen competition to Mario Kart, no matter what you think.

It's hard to imagine figuratively as in it seems unlikely they would opt to make one now, not literally like my brain shuts down when I try to envision AiAi and NiGHTS fighting on some Jet Set Radio stage.

That wasn't about how likely it was, though.

If you're getting beat 37 to 1, or even 17 to 1, that's not genuine competition so much as just both doing the same thing at very different levels. It's like a premier league team playing a team like four divisions down.

Well, sells is not everything.

But, not to the same extent as Nintendo.

Well, they have Sonic.

The problem's that "action game" is a pretty broad. Creating a good, say, beat 'em up game doesn't mean you can create a good fighting game. Virtua Fighter might exist but they'll have to do more than just copy its gameplay.

SEGA's experience in the action games could play a part whatever type of fighting game could make it. That's kind of how Smash Bros and Fighters Megamix were developed.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Keep KillKiss

Hmm...

Keep Kill Kiss(on the forehead 'cuz he precious)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If it's not a competitor, then why would it be an alternative? It's that inferior.


So now you saying a game DOESN'T have to outsell another to be seen as a competitor? Just be successful enough to be seen as a competitor?

I'm glad to see we're making some progress here.


I was talking about that specific game, not the series in general. However, you keep going on about sells and then say they're good games. This doesn't mix up all that well. Yet, they do sell well to keep making sequels and are seen competition to Mario Kart, no matter what you think.

It's an ALTERNATIVE because it's a DIFFERENT game in the same genre that's not as generally popular. Do you not know the definition of ALTERNATIVE, because it means "available as another possibility". For example, Rivals of Aether isn't competition to Smash Bros., but it is an ALTERNATIVE.

How does that not mix well? I can still enjoy the All-Stars Racing games despite the objective fact that they got the **** kicked out of them by Mario Kart.

I'm gonna stop talking about this with you because your entire argument basically boils down to looking at objective reality and everything I'm saying and saying "Nuh uh" or "Doesn't matter" because you think SEGA is gonna make a crossover fighting game for the first time in 30 years when they won't even make a crossover racer anymore and it's somehow gonna compete with Smash Bros. and it's ongoing 26-year history and brand recognition because you think 37 vs 1, 8 vs 1, or 17 vs 1 is a fair fight.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I don't want to be rude...but do we really need drama of a hypotetical sega smash bros going on for like 2-3 pages in the speculation thread?

They should put the two cute elf sisters from unicorn overlord in this hypothetical sega fighting game

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't want to be rude...but do we really need drama of a hypotetical sega smash bros going on for like 2-3 pages in the speculation thread?

I welcome most discussions that are at least tangentially related to Smash. It's a good way to keep things from going stale.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Do you...think Fighters Megamix was popular?

Not sure about that. But fans sure loved it.

That's your metric? You gonna tell us about some smash hit 3DO games next?

That's about all I can find so far.

A better question is why is Sega so sure it would fail?

FFS, they're just now making a sequel to their most popular fighting game franchise after 20 years.

And so many others. We won't know unless they try.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So now you saying a game DOESN'T have to outsell another to be seen as a competitor? Just be successful enough to be seen as a competitor?

Why does it need to be a competitor?

People can buy multiple games in the same genre. King of Fighters is not Street Fighter's competition. People who like fighting game can buy both.

A Sega fighter doesn't have to compete with Smash. It just has to be profitable.

But fans sure loved it.

Do they? Or do they just love the fighting racecar? Because that's the only time I ever hear anyone talk about it.

 

[dream1ng]

If it's not a competitor, then why would it be an alternative? It's that inferior.

Because it's a similar kind of game. It's an alternative kart racer to Mario Kart.

So now you saying a game DOESN'T have to outsell another to be seen as a competitor? Just be successful enough to be seen as a competitor?

I'm glad to see we're making some progress here.

Yeah... to be competitors there needs to be some competition...

A game that ends with a 6 - 3 score is still a competition. A game that ends 20 - 1 less so.

I was talking about that specific game, not the series in general. However, you keep going on about sells and then say they're good games. This doesn't mix up all that well. Yet, they do sell well to keep making sequels and are seen competition to Mario Kart, no matter what you think.

I think you're conflating existing with competing. Yes they're both on the market at the same time, and yes, someone might choose to purchase one over the other, but if there's no chance one even comes close to threatening the viability or success of the other, they're not really in competition.

That wasn't about how likely it was, though.

Your question was how could it be hard to imagine if it's happened in the past. It can be hard to imagine existing now if you doubt it will return.

Well, sells is not everything.

It's a key aspect of whether they'd be actual competitors, and whether the companies would even greenlight the games. These are businesses.

If the competition is overwhelming and decisively one-sided, they're not really competing. Competition would be a foregone conclusion. They're just mutually existing. They could be competing in other aspects, like which is the "better game", but that's not really what we're talking about here.

Well, they have Sonic.

It's not 1993 anymore. Nintendo has a whole array of series that sell better than Sonic games do these days.

Also, unlike most of Nintendo's big series, Japan isn't going to help Sonic nearly as much.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It's an ALTERNATIVE because it's a DIFFERENT game in the same genre that's not as generally popular. Do you not know the definition of ALTERNATIVE, because it means "available as another possibility". For example, Rivals of Aether isn't competition to Smash Bros., but it is an ALTERNATIVE.

You're just showing even more that the sells don't mean everything, seeing how you still turn to games that sold less than Nintendo's as alternatives.

How does that not mix well? I can still enjoy the All-Stars Racing games despite the objective fact that they got the **** kicked out of them by Mario Kart.

Based only sells and nothing else.

I'm gonna stop talking about this with you because your entire argument basically boils down to looking at objective reality and everything I'm saying and saying "Nuh uh" or "Doesn't matter" because you think SEGA is gonna make a crossover fighting game for the first time in 30 years when they won't even make a crossover racer anymore and it's somehow gonna compete with Smash Bros. and it's ongoing 26-year history and brand recognition because you think 37 vs 1, 8 vs 1, or 17 vs 1 is a fair fight.

I'm not really concern if you stop talking because it's obvious you just have biased view. You have this weird fanboy obsession with Nintendo's sells, even starting off comparing Smash Ultimate to three completely different series and just want to compare the racing games like it's a Nintendo vs SEGA debate. All because I said I think SEGA could possibly match Smash Bros. All I said was that they don't have to outsell a game to compete with the series (as you just acknowledged with my Crash example), even if it's just as wide as the numbers you just mentioned. They just have to sell enough to be seen as a competitor and the rest takes care of itself.

Why does it need to be a competitor?

People can buy multiple games in the same genre. King of Fighters is not Street Fighter's competition. People who like fighting game can buy both.

A Sega fighter doesn't have to compete with Smash. It just has to be profitable.

True but you know fans are going to see it that way, especially between two "rival" companies.

Do they? Or do they just love the fighting racecar? Because that's the only time I ever hear anyone talk about it.

People seem to love the game itself. The fighting car is just one those things made it stands out and still do this day.

 

[dream1ng]

You're just showing even more that the sells don't mean everything, seeing how you still turn to games that sold less than Nintendo's as alternatives.

If you're classifying them as competitors, sales matters.

If you're just looking at whether you are physically able to play them sales aren't quite as important.

But this also proves you are indeed conflating competing with existing.

Based only sells and nothing else.

That's a pivotal aspect of competition between two similar products.

I'm not really concern if you stop talking because it's obvious you just have biased view. You have this weird fanboy obsession with Nintendo's sells, even starting off comparing Smash Ultimate to three completely different series and just want to compare the racing games like it's a Nintendo vs SEGA debate. All because I said I think SEGA could possibly match Smash Bros. All I said was that they don't have to outsell a game to compete with the series (as you just acknowledged with my Crash example), even if it's just as wide as the numbers you just mentioned. They just have to sell enough to be seen as a competitor and the rest takes care of itself.

Yes, because you said Sega could possibly match Smash Bros. But have not given a single bit of compelling evidence why, meanwhile are chalking counter evidence (sales) up as a "weird fanboy obsession" when that's exactly the metric that matters when comparing the competitiveness of two products.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You're just showing even more that the sells don't mean everything, seeing how you still turn to games that sold less than Nintendo's as alternatives.

Dude I'm not in this argument and I don't wanna get involved, but I'm starting to question either your literacy or understanding of the English language.

You don't seem to understand what Poppy is arguing. And continuing will only frustrate you both.