Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Just one page away for #2000

Do anyone have a good topic to talk 'till we reach such milestone?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Another thing too is that we're approaching this conversation as as an initiative fully taken by SEGA, like "SEGA did this", "why isn't SEGA doing that", and while they're still ultimately the ones bankrolling it, I do think ultimately the All-Stars games we got relied a lot on Sumo Digital's enthusiasm as SEGA fans to get to where they did. Maybe we very well could have gotten a fighting game if the collaboration had kept going, but with TSR happening instead and Sumo now out of the picture, I don't know that SEGA internal has the same appetite for something like that, or at least I think they like to do their crossovers somewhat differently. You could outsource it, but frankly I can't think of very many devs I'd genuinely trust with such a thing and we've already had issues before with SEGA being a bit too lenient about who they loan their stuff out to.

I think another thing too is I don't think fan demand has really mattered in this equation so far, since while a SEGA crossover fighter is most certainly something a lot of people would like to see, I don't think that demand has really made itself....visible at the moment? In the sense that it usually manifests moreso as a casual "oh yeah that'd be really cool" and less as something people are actively campaigning for. I do genuinely think that SEGA just aren't really seeing the demand all that much because it's not really the same kind of loud fan outcry as say, the calls for them to revive stuff like JSR.

SEGA right now seems to be focusing a bit more on fan-pleasing, so I do think the chances of a big crossover have increased slightly, but I always have a problem envisioning what they could do, which is that SEGA is so many things to so many people and there's a million different directions they could take. All these divides in their history - east vs. west, arcade vs. console, old-school vs. new school. What kind of game would it even be, a tradfighter, a platfighter, an arena fighter? Just on a fundamental level.....what would it look like? So much they could do that it makes it hard for me to predict much of anything. I guess given their current direction, I have a feeling the roster would lean more western-centric, which sucks for me personally 'cuz I like a lot of the weirdo weeb stuff, but ah well. Other than that.....yeah man I don't know

Not to mention that even beyond trying to maximize appeal (which as noted is very tricky with a company like encompassing many different identities) a racer is often much more straightforward because there's certain individual nuanced elements with your roster that a game maker does not have to consider as much with it vs that of a fighter. Yes, you want vehicles to make sense for the character and for the tracks to work as effective homages to their games, but otherwise it's just having solid gameplay mechanics and for the racing to be engaging.

An individual fighter must have a moveset that's fun, balanced, somewhat unique, and feel true to the character wielding it which is heck of a juggling act for even the best developers. Smash has some of the best possible teams working on them, with big budgets, and incredibly smart/experienced directors looking over it. Yet with even that in mind the franchise is still prone to endless debate because this fighter feels off to some, another comes off as outdated with their series, and one just doesn't gel with many because of their mechanics.

Given all that and the sales struggles of many crossover fighters that aren't Smash or Capcom vs, I can't blame any company (especially one with the aforementioned demographic appeal issue of Sega) that's concluded big names in a racecar is just the easier way to go.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I find it very amusing that despite everyone very much disliking Sonic Lors World, and I think Zavoc in particular, he makes very frequent appearances in following titles.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I find it very amusing that despite everyone very much disliking Sonic Lors World, and I think Zavoc in particular, he makes very frequent appearances in following titles.

The fact that not only is Zavok apparently back in CrossWorlds, but apparently someone has spotted Zazz as well, and I've heard the team gameplay is an option in the game meaning there might be a THIRD Zeti on the roster makes me so angry lmao

 

[MasterCheef]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Master Chief ; his energy shield

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just one page away for #2000

Do anyone have a good topic to talk 'till we reach such milestone?

It should be the lamest thing possible just to have this feeling of "2000 pages of buildup all for THAT?!"

 

[BrawlX10]

I find it very amusing that despite everyone very much disliking Sonic Lors World, and I think Zavoc in particular, he makes very frequent appearances in following titles.

I thnink someone in the dev team might be fond of the deadly six, just imagine that marge meme but with zavock and zazz instead of a potato, that's probably someone in the dev team.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Because they did it once with Fighters Megamix 30 years ago and haven't done it since?

So how it can be so hard to imagine if they already did it? You don't have to imagine it. They already made one.

Because Ultimate is the best selling fighting game OF ALL TIME and sold nearly 36 million copies, while the only SEGA games in the Switch's top 100 are Shin Megami Tensei V at 1.10 million and Mario & Sonic at the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games at like 1.02 million.

Like a SEGA fighting crossover game would be neat, sure! But it's not gonna compete with Smash overall and they haven't done it in three decades, so...

Why are you...only comparing Ultimate to SEGA games on the Switch? You know they don't make them only for that console.

And why are you so sure that a SEGA crossover fighting game is going to fail? Nobody is saying the first entry (or spiritual successor) of a SEGA crossover fighter is going to outsell the fifth entry in the Smash series but it is crazy to think that the game won't be successful enough to compete with the series, especially looking at the success they've had other crossovers already.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

On the Sega Fighter that is like Smash idea, I don't think it will be that easy. While it does not have to be exactly that, something close to a Sakurai like figure could be needed as well as a great team, and there are the other problems others like TheFirstPoppyBro mentioned, like Sega being unhinged. I think it could more like Nickelodeon and Warner Bros.' platform fighters, and they, Sega, that is, did not even do DLC other than a few characters like Metal Sonic in the Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing games.

I think not only is it not worth it for Sega to try to do a platform fighter, let alone make it great like Nintendo's Smash Bros., but it probably is not worth their time.

 

[AreJay25]

If Sonic manages to gets a boss in the next game, at this point I almost expect it to be Zavok instead of, you know, practically anyone else

Seriously, why the **** does this big, Bowser wannabe dumpster fire keep showing up in so many games lmao, just let him go Sonic Team

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It should be the lamest thing possible just to have this feeling of "2000 pages of buildup all for THAT?!"

Let's all gave a passionate debate about alternative currencies for coin battle, with future 3rd party representation largely happening via franchise's fake money appearing in that mode. Instead of say a Fallout character in Power Armor as a fighter, we'll have bottlecaps replacing coins. I mean it's almost as good.

 

[Dukefire]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Crash Bandicoot: Crates and Tornado being an reflector
Shantae: dance transformation
Doom Slayer: Resource management with ammo
Rayman: Floating limbs for longer range and power
Quote: Level system for weapon's strength
Shadow: Chaos energy to be a unique character
Travis Touchdown: Battery Meter for his sword to affect damage and style. Like how the homage smash bros for the final boss in No More Heroes 3.
Cuphead: Meter and Parry while being a glass cannon (Like how Cuphead has only 3 HP default in his home series)
Geno: Timed hits for certain moves to gain power.

 

[Laniv]

If Sonic manages to gets a boss in the next game, at this point I almost expect it to be Zavok instead of, you know, practically anyone else

Seriously, why the **** does this big, Bowser wannabe dumpster fire keep showing up in so many games lmao, just let him go Sonic Team

Hey now, Zavok can be cool! Cool-ish! Sometimes! On the occasions when he's written well!

...Can't speak for the rest of the Deadly Six, though.

...Is Big the Cat in this one? I miss Big

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Hey now, Zavok can be cool! Cool-ish! Sometimes! On the occasions when he's written well!

...Can't speak for the rest of the Deadly Six, though.

...Is Big the Cat in this one? I miss Big

You mean CrossWorlds? I think so, I heard he is. Yeah, I am sure.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I actually like the idea of Zavok. His design is cool, and his ability to hijack Dr. Eggman's robots could be pretty interesting. The idea of a villain who makes themselves literally everyone's problem when they show up because they shut down the main villain and create another wrinkle for the hero is really cool.

He really just needs to be in a game with good writing, and sadly, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Forces (where he doesn't even talk anyway), and the miriad of Sonic spin-offs where story isn't really all that inportant aren't that.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Hayabusa: Counter Hold and Izuna Drop - If it connects, the player can do the Izuna Drop with exact same inputs from the game.

Kunio and Riki: Power Shot - When they use their dodgeball, they can run back and forward in order to throw Power Shots, just like in Super Dodgeball.

Billy/Jimmy: Beat'em Up - They would be the best characters at fighting multiple opponents, taken from the beat'em up genre.

Doom Slayer: Gun Switch - He can switch between the Pistol, Plasma Gun, Rocket Launcher, and Chaingun. Pistol has unlimited ammo while the others will have to reload.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Arle should have a substance abuse mechanic

 

[smashkirby]

Any thoughts or ideas on Reiji Arisu? You know, the protagonist from Namco × Capcom who was also in both games in the Project X Zone series. In Project X Zone 1 there were characters from Namco Bandai, Capcom, and Sega, just like in Project X Zone 2, with the only difference being that there were a few Nintendo characters there too, and of course I'm talking and writing about Fiora from Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and Chrom and Lucina. I think Reiji Arisu would be a perfect choice to come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series to represent the collaboration of these companies.

Ngl, I would like for Reiji and Xiaomu to use what Rex and Pyra/Mythra would have used, but... well, who knows if the Switch 2 will be that powerful?

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Lark (or whatever Pilotwings character is selected) being able to use midair chargeable Smash Attacks.

 

[Arcanir]

I actually like the idea of Zavok. His design is cool, and his ability to hijack Dr. Eggman's robots could be pretty interesting. The idea of a villain who makes themselves literally everyone's problem when they show up because they shut down the main villain and create another wrinkle for the hero is really cool.

He really just needs to be in a game with good writing, and sadly, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Forces (where he doesn't even talk anyway), and the miriad of Sonic spin-offs where story isn't really all that inportant aren't that.

The comics handle him better as they actually play to his strengths. He managed to win a number of fans over there.

I do wonder if he's (and the other Deadly Six) are more popular in a different subgroup then who's online. Sega has thrown out characters before after backlash (including Infinite most recently), but they've stuck around, and I don't think they would if truly no one cared about them.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So how it can be so hard to imagine if they already did it? You don't have to imagine it. They already made one.

Because a lot changes in 30 years and if they haven't made one since despite it apparently being a success on the Saturn, I would assume there's a reason for that. I don't know what that reason IS, but I would assume there is one.

Why are you...only comparing Ultimate to SEGA games on the Switch? You know they don't make them only for that console.

Oh sorry, should I compare this single game to the entirety of the Yakuza series (27.7 million) or the entirety of the Persona series (23 million) instead? Since they're both of the company's other non-Sonic pillars and all.

And why are you so sure that a SEGA crossover fighting game is going to fail? Nobody is saying the first entry (or spiritual successor) of a SEGA crossover fighter is going to outsell fifth entry in the Smash series but it is crazy to think that the game won't be successful enough to compete with the series, especially when fans have been wanting this for years.

I never said it was going to FAIL, I said it's silly to think it's going to match up to or compete with Smash in the long run because like you said, Smash as a franchise has been going on since 1999 and is five games deep and is a consistent system pusher for Nintendo because it sells tens of millions of units by itself with a massive amount of brand loyalty under its belt and likely clout in the industry at large.

Just like how the All-Stars Racing games are great (I played both of them growing up and loved them), but they couldn't compete with Mario Kart in the long run.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Arle should have a substance abuse mechanic

That could send a message to all the kids around the world.

"Remember kids, don't do drugs!"

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The comics handle him better as they actually play to his strengths. He managed to win a number of fans over there.

I do wonder if he's (and the other Deadly Six) are more popular in a different subgroup then who's online. Sega has thrown out characters before after backlash (including Infinite most recently), but they've stuck around, and I don't think they would if truly no one cared about them.

Reminds me of this.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That could send a message to all the kids around the world.

"Remember kids, don't do drugs!"

Yeah drugs are unnecessary. All you need is a great sword. After all, things come easy with a sword like that!

 

[Gengar84]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Jinx: Get Excited - In League of Legends, Jinx gets a speed boost for each enemy she defeats within a set time. I think you could incorporate this in Smash pretty easily either by KOs or just damage.

Battletoads: Limb Transformation - Several Battletoads’ attacks could get a big power and knockback boost by transforming their limbs to various objects when attacking opponents at 80% damage or higher.

Alphen/Shionne: Boost Strike - These two would work as standard transformation fighters but would perform a combo attack upon tagging in and out. Alphen would specialize in short range and self damaging attacks while Shionne specializes in ranged and healing arts.

Sarah Kerrigan: Zerg summoning - Kerrigan builds up resources over time called Vespian Gas that she can spend to summon various Zerg units that help in different ways ranging from traps, attacks, and wandering units. Different units require different amounts of Vespian Gas.

Illidan Stormrage: Betrayer’s Thirst - Illidan’s melee and glaive attacks drain 15% of damage. To balance this, he is relatively light weight and has a huge frame comparable to Ganondorf.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Reminds me of this.
View attachment 399026

That kid could be Pink Yoshi , Not sure what age she was when the issue was published

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I find it very amusing that despite everyone very much disliking Sonic Lors World, and I think Zavoc in particular, he makes very frequent appearances in following titles.

They keep trying to make Zavok happen even though nobody likes it, its so bizzare.

The only time they were ever a threat was in the comics, where you remember "Oh hey these guys can manipulate robots, Megaman is a robot, oh ****."

I genuinely can't think of any other instance the deadly six did anything of note.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I actually like the idea of Zavok. His design is cool, and his ability to hijack Dr. Eggman's robots could be pretty interesting. The idea of a villain who makes themselves literally everyone's problem when they show up because they shut down the main villain and create another wrinkle for the hero is really cool.

He really just needs to be in a game with good writing, and sadly, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Forces (where he doesn't even talk anyway), and the miriad of Sonic spin-offs where story isn't really all that inportant aren't that.

My opinion on the Zeti since they've never been in a game that makes them good characters doing anything of note is basically this Eggman clip from Lost World lmao

Still kinda ticked off that even though Dodon-Pa in TSR is able to send invites backwards and forwards in time and stuff like that that somehow ZAVOK is on EGGMAN'S team alongside Metal instead of someone like Heavy King from Mania or something miles better.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wii Fit Trainer will probably return because they are easily one of the simplest characters to animate and model, especially with them not having a gimmick or anything that requires a new model of them.

Same can be said about Jigglypuff right. People want her gone all the time too despite the legacy.

I could see Wii Fit Trainer being cut just because the novelty has ran out.

Then again, I don't know ****

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hey guys, of all the characters wanted to be playable in Smash Bros., do you think any of them could come with an interesting gimmick? What gimmick and character could that be?

Might as well toss an idea for Alear here

Emblem Engage! - Emblem Marth accompanies Alear during certain moves (primarily specials but depending on the moveset, things like smash attacks and throws could happen too). However, by filling a meter, the two will Engage, fusing together to completely alter the moves that normally involve Marth.

Think of it as a reverse Arsene mechanic where Alear does grow stronger but rather than it being because the Emblem manifests, it's instead because they become one with the Emblem. How unique it will be entirely depends on how unique the Emblem moves are.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Since we're about to hit 2000 pages, in honor of that, here's the Tempest 2000 soundtrack:

(man, that'd be a cool stage in Smash)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We've hit 2000 pages, so in honor of that, here's the Tempest 2000 soundtrack:

Not yet. You're too soon

 

[Guynamednelson]

We're about to hit 2000 pages, so in honor of that, here's the Tempest 2000 soundtrack:

Is this that upload which doesn't have the menu theme?

Because if so

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm actually going to call out the Zavok haters.

Not because Zavok is particularly good (he's mediocre) but because he isn't robbing anyone of a roster spot. They have already included every major Sonic character in the game. Who's left? Black Doom? Infinite? Might as well throw Zavok a bone. He isn't disappointment incarnate like Infinite.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm actually going to call out the Zavok haters.

Not because Zavok is particularly good (he's mediocre) but because he isn't robbing anyone of a roster spot. They have already included every major Sonic character in the game. Who's left? Black Doom? Infinite? Might as well through Zavok a bone. He isn't disappointment incarnate like Infinite.

If they got over the modern vs classic divide, Zavok would probably be pushed out by Ray, Mighty, Nack, or even potentially Trip.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm actually going to call out the Zavok haters.

Not because Zavok is particularly good (he's mediocre) but because he isn't robbing anyone of a roster spot. They have already included every major Sonic character in the game. Who's left? Black Doom? Infinite? Might as well through Zavok a bone. He isn't disappointment incarnate like Infinite.

I mean after what I've seen of Sonic x Shadow Generations, I genuinely think Black Doom at least makes sense to be in this more than Zavok lmao

Plus like we've seen Dinosaur Jungle from Secret Rings I'm pretty sure, so you could've included one of the Storybook characters instead.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

FE, FI, FO, FUM, I HEARD DEADLY SIX.

First of all, thank you to HyperSomari64 for calling my name here.

Second of all, as the #1 Deadly Six Enjoyer and Advocate on Smashboards, the way that Sega has gone about using them is really weird. Ever since Lost World, Sega has only really used Zavok in follow-up main games (and not very well either...), and left all the other members to sit in spin-off games (sometimes not even - Zazz getting into SRCR is HUGE for us D6 fans). Sega has just not given them a fair shot to show more of...well, themselves, and show their character off to the fullest.

I have a butt-ton of ideas that I'll probably save for a thread of my own in the future, but there is genuinely a lot you can do with them, rather than just regulate them to itty-bitty bit parts where they barely get to do anything. In a future game's story, I'd love to see them play a strong role in a game's story where they have more interactions with each other and non-Sonic or Eggman characters.

My big hope is that in the future, since we've gotten Colors and Gens remasters, we get a Lost World remaster too with a new story mode where we see more of the Six in its story. Show their group camaraderie, show their spirit and goals, show the things they care most about other than power or fights or food or fruits or fashion or flowers (man I can't believe I am Zor and Zor is me). What I'd love is if the Deadly Six got to show a genuine bond between the six of them rather than Angry Fighting Group of Villains #84208201390, and ultimately end up becoming more than just a band of villains in future games.

I want to be able to call Zeena my favorite character of all time and NOT get looked at like I'm an escaped mental patient.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'm actually going to call out the Zavok haters.

Not because Zavok is particularly good (he's mediocre) but because he isn't robbing anyone of a roster spot. They have already included every major Sonic character in the game. Who's left? Black Doom? Infinite? Might as well through Zavok a bone. He isn't disappointment incarnate like Infinite.

That's why we'll pick on Zazz instead. :V

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean after what I've seen of Sonic x Shadow Generations, I genuinely think Black Doom at least makes sense to be in this more than Zavok lmao

Plus like we've seen Dinosaur Jungle from Secret Rings I'm pretty sure, so you could've included one of the Storybook characters instead.

Black Doom driving a car would be pretty funny. But is it Zazz funny?

And... I don't think you can argue that any of the Storybook characters are major Sonic characters. (We'll probably get them through the DLC passes regardless.)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A Sonic debate right as a thread is hitting 2000 pages. Some things on the internet never change.