Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SuperSonicFlyer]

So, what Pokemon do you want as Pokeball Pokemon next Smash Bros., guys?

EDIT: Happy 2000 pages, everyone!

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Black Doom driving a car would be pretty funny. But is it Zazz funny?

Anytime Black Doom is in the lead when the next lap starts, it automatically goes to Radical Highway. No exceptions. Even if it was already Radical Highway.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Black Doom driving a car would be pretty funny. But is it Zazz funny?

And... I don't think you can argue that any of the Storybook characters are major Sonic characters. (We'll probably get them through the DLC passes regardless.)

I mean I'd consider Black Doom in a car funny, especially if he can drive on his favorite course, Radical Highway.

I mean the Storybook characters aren't major but I wouldn't call Zavok or Zazz major characters either, they just won't go away lmao

But also like Trip and Nack/Fang were in a game pretty recently too.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

That's why we'll pick on Zazz instead. :V

Hey, I actually like Zazz, more than Zavok! Leave that guy alone!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will use my first post on the 2,000 page defending the Deadly Six.

"They are only mid, guys c'mon. Not worth getting upset about."

My life is in shambles.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

A rare appearance from me because I decided to defend the Deadly Six, and we hit 2000 pages. Go figure.

Zeena for Smash 6!!!

So, what Pokemon do you want as Pokeball Pokemon next Smash Bros., guys?

EDIT: Happy 2000 pages, everyone!

I mean...you know me well enough from the Social Thread to know my answer

I'd rather her be playable but there's no way that's happening with Meowscarada in the way

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They keep trying to make Zavok happen even though nobody likes it, its so bizzare.

The only time they were ever a threat was in the comics, where you remember "Oh hey these guys can manipulate robots, Megaman is a robot, oh ****."

I genuinely can't think of any other instance the deadly six did anything of note.

I believe they were also in the Zombot arc, hired by Dr. Eggman when he started getting worried about the fact that he can't control the Zombots. Don't really know much about the execution, but it makes 100% sense why they're there since like of course Dr. Eggman would pull out all of the stops to make sure the army of zombies that he can't control doesn't infect him.

He isn't disappointment incarnate like Infinite.

Infinite just makes me sad because I can see the cool story he was supposed to have, but the execution is so terrible it makes him one of the dumbest Sonic characters in existance.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And... I don't think you can argue that any of the Storybook characters are major Sonic characters.

No but now I want to ride a hoverboard as Sir Lancelot. It'd be so cool!

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm actually going to call out the Zavok haters.

Not because Zavok is particularly good (he's mediocre) but because he isn't robbing anyone of a roster spot. They have already included every major Sonic character in the game. Who's left? Black Doom? Infinite? Might as well through Zavok a bone. He isn't disappointment incarnate like Infinite.

They brought back Sonic Man in a Sonic Channel pic, they can bring him back in a game dagnabbit!

If they got over the modern vs classic divide, Zavok would probably be pushed out by Ray, Mighty, Nack, or even potentially Trip.

Hey, he changed his name to "Fang", remember? We have to respect that.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

.....Erazor Djinn would be legit, not gonna lie.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

It's so weird to me that when it comes to Infinite, people are like "oh he had such potential, Sega fumbled, they need to give him another chance"

But with the Deadly Six they are just like "no they're just complete mistakes and people who like them don't exist" (Mr. SuperSonicFlyer I don't feel so good)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I for one, say that any roster that has a playable Omega is GOATed.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

And even if I weren't a Deadly Six enthusiast, I'd still be beyond stoked because Wave is here. I love that purple birb.

 

[dream1ng]

A Sonic debate right as a thread is hitting 2000 pages. Some things on the internet never change.

if only we followed the wisdom of the sage crush 40 to live and learn

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

It's so weird to me that when it comes to Infinite, people are like "oh he had such potential, Sega fumbled, they need to give him another chance"

But with the Deadly Six they are just like "no they're just complete mistakes and people who like them don't exist" (Mr. SuperSonicFlyer I don't feel so good)

Yeah, that is crazy. Unlike the Deadly Six, I am not sure if we'll see Infinite anytime soon, if at all.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Why is it so hard to imagine SEGA pulling it off? They have major iconic IPs, numerous collaborations, solid action gaming background...

Unless you're just not that familiar with SEGA as you are with Nintendo, I don't see why it would be so hard to imagine them matching Smash.

Sega has a handful of ongoing successful series, but Nintendo has more of them, and I'd argue they have more household names as well. And that doesn't factor in how Smash has already included third-party characters for more appeal.

Creating action games in the past also doesn't necessarily mean they can create a fighting game with mechanics as widely enjoyed as Smash's.

 

[Perkilator]

Anyway, since we’re on 2000 pages, I’d just like to quickly list characters made in the 2000’s that I’d like to see in Smash since I was born on December 2000.

• Waluigi
• Skull Kid
• Shadow the Hedgehog
• Tom Nook
• Aigis
• Roxas
• Estelle Bright

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A rare appearance from me because I decided to defend the Deadly Six, and we hit 2000 pages. Go figure.

Zeena for Smash 6!!!



I mean...you know me well enough from the Social Thread to know my answer
View attachment 399030
I'd rather her be playable but there's no way that's happening with Meowscarada in the way

I'm starting to think you have a type.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well, about Sega and platform fighters, someone on another forum did say he thought a game recently trademarked by Sega, Sonic Blitz, was going to be a 3D action battle game. Maybe that counts to a degree or no?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Because a lot changes in 30 years and if they haven't made one since despite it apparently being a success on the Saturn, I would assume there's a reason for that. I don't know what that reason IS, but I would assume there is one.

Yeah sure. Don't know why this was mentioned but...okay.

Oh sorry, should I compare this single game to the entirety of the Yakuza series (27.7 million) or the entirety of the Persona series (23 million) instead? Since they're both of the company's other non-Sonic pillars and all.

I don't get this comparison in the first place. You're comparing a crossover fighting game to a sports game, an open world action series, and some JRPGs? If this is your way of saying Nintendo's games are better than SEGA's, this is pretty biased view.

I never said it was going to FAIL, I said it's silly to think it's going to match up to or compete with Smash in the long run because like you said, Smash as a franchise has been going on since 1999 and is five games deep and is a consistent system pusher for Nintendo because it sells tens of millions of units by itself.

Just like how the All-Stars Racing games are great (I played both of them growing up and loved them), but they couldn't compete with Mario Kart in the long run.

You can't really say that for sure. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe sold 67.35 million (more than Ultimate), yet the latest game sold much less at 1.73 million. That's just only slightly more than the latest All-Stars Racing game, which sold 1.36 million. Smash could very well end up the same way, with the next game selling less than Ultimate. Therefore, it's not silly to think SEGA, which has already been on a crossover roll lately, could compete with Smash and they don't have outsell Ultimate to do that.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

About what is going on about Sonic here, looks like someone found the Chaos Emeralds but brought them here to show them at the wrong time. Why?

Because bring them brought chaos!

 

[Captain Shwampy]

That could send a message to all the kids around the world.

"Remember kids, don't do drugs!"

In Madou Monogatari games Arle is a gifted sorceress and a reincarnation of Satan's wife(Lilith) that has powerful spells that could literally nuke entire area but she loses MP super fast (spam Diacute + refill with sake + Judgement or Fire/Ice Storm) and in order refill you have to literally drink the Magical Sake you stock up on from merchants on random floors to refill her MP while exploring dungeons. Running out of MP in Madou usually just means a 100% game over. Bayoen is also broken as hell too since it pacifies ANYTHING for certain amount of turns depending on how powered up her magic is with Diacute, that also requires alot of strategy and MP to execute.
The more drunk she gets the more powerful her spells are but the more likely she fails the incantations, making her a RNG resource character. Once she out of sake to drink she cant use her spells anymore.

Idk how to implement the spell of owanimo into this.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Might as well toss an idea for Alear here

Emblem Engage! - Emblem Marth accompanies Alear during certain moves (primarily specials but depending on the moveset, things like smash attacks and throws could happen too). However, by filling a meter, the two will Engage, fusing together to completely alter the moves that normally involve Marth.

Think of it as a reverse Arsene mechanic where Alear does grow stronger but rather than it being because the Emblem manifests, it's instead because they become one with the Emblem. How unique it will be entirely depends on how unique the Emblem moves are.

Even if Alear seems like a good idea, I don't know if the Emblem accompanied by them should be Marth. Sure, it's their canon Emblem of choice. But what if they went with Sigurd instead?

And explain that with a reveal trailer because Marth is already there or something? I don't know.

Alear is super interesting however and I'm warming up to the idea more and more. However, since Engage had its main focus on Emblems and literally all the Smash FE cast became relevant again thanks to it, so there might not be a newcomer after all.

I do sort of expect Lucina and Chrom to get a moveset revamp however. Ike too, if only slightly.

 

[BrawlX10]

I mean after what I've seen of Sonic x Shadow Generations, I genuinely think Black Doom at least makes sense to be in this more than Zavok lmao

Plus like we've seen Dinosaur Jungle from Secret Rings I'm pretty sure, so you could've included one of the Storybook characters instead.

Man, that secret rings throwback was so random....i love it.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I'm starting to think you have a type.

Is it that obvious? Haha I get the resemblance myself. Just a funny coincidence at the end of the day though, Tsareena's just a Pokemon that I've always really loved and have always enjoyed using when I get the chance.

Honestly the Deadly Six are just comfort characters to me. I love them and I just don't think that can be changed. These little freaks are so important to me.

Especially Zeena. Like I said, perhaps my favorite character of all time. I just love her design and suave, snarky, sassy, lazy but fabulous attitude. She could've been so much better utilized, and since Sega fumbled pretty hard, people are just hesitant to really give her a chance, and that's a huge shame. But I'll always have her as my #1!

Also I kinda ship her with Zor, not gonna lie.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

View attachment 399027View attachment 399034

In Madou Monogatari games Arle is a gifted sorceress and a reincarnation of Satan's wife(Lilith) that has powerful spells that could literally nuke entire area but she loses MP super fast (spam Diacute + refill with sake + Judgement or Fire/Ice Storm) and in order refill you have to literally drink the Magical Sake you stock up on from merchants on random floors to refill her MP while exploring dungeons. Running out of MP in Madou usually just means a 100% game over. Bayoen is also broken as hell too since it pacifies ANYTHING for certain amount of turns depending on how powered up her magic is with Diacute, that also requires alot of strategy and MP to execute.
The more drunk she gets the more powerful her spells are but the more likely she fails the incantations, making her a RNG resource character. Once she out of sake to drink she cant use her spells anymore.

Idk how to implement the spell of owanimo into this.
View attachment 399029

View attachment 399031

Ohhhh, boy, that sounds so intense, if you ask me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's so weird to me that when it comes to Infinite, people are like "oh he had such potential, Sega fumbled, they need to give him another chance"

But with the Deadly Six they are just like "no they're just complete mistakes and people who like them don't exist" (Mr. SuperSonicFlyer I don't feel so good)

To be fair, I do like both, I just haven't played Sonic Lost World, and have played Sonic Forces so I know more about Infinite than Zavok...despite him technically being in both games.

Although, Zavok probably has more potential than Infinite does from this point on since The Deadly 6 still have the ability to have their dynamics fleshed out and their stories better executed, while Infinite is dead, had his power source destroyed, and already attempted to have his story told. Even if you retcon his death and give him a new power source, you still have the issue of him being in much the same place as where he started which forces him into the same arc they attempted before.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Even if Alear seems like a good idea, I don't know if the Emblem accompanied by them should be Marth. Sure, it's their canon Emblem of choice. But what if they went with Sigurd instead?

And explain that with a reveal trailer because Marth is already there or something? I don't know.

Alear is super interesting however and I'm warming up to the idea more and more. However, since Engage had its main focus on Emblems and literally all the Smash FE cast became relevant again thanks to it, so there might not be a newcomer after all.

I do sort of expect Lucina and Chrom to get a moveset revamp however. Ike too, if only slightly.

Sigurd would actually be kinda cute because then Alear would be carrying out their mother's Emblem of choice and that could make some fans squee at the thought.

But Marth has always been there for Alear except for when he wasn't but that's a spoiler so it makes sense that he'd be the one who takes the focus. That would be like saying you wanted to design Joker for Smash and choose to center the moveset around literally any Persona EXCEPT Arsene, the one Persona he always canonically acquires before any other no matter how you play Persona 5.

"But Marth's already in the game."

The Emblem being all ghostly is more than enough to tell the two apart. Especially if Emblem Marth only shows up in the moves he participates in.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

To be fair, I do like both, I just haven't played Sonic Lost World, and have played Sonic Forces so I know more about Infinite than Zavok...despite him technically being in both games.

Although, Zavok probably has more potential than Infinite does from this point on since The Deadly 6 still have the ability to have their dynamics fleshed out and their stories better executed, while Infinite is dead, had his power source destroyed, and already attempted to have his story told. Even if you retcon his death and give him a new power source, you still have the issue of him being in much the same place as where he started which forces him into the same arc they attempted before.

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

Yeah, given the conclusion of Forces, trying to bring back Infinite would probably feel contrived, and I think Sega knows this. Whereas the door is definitely still open for the D6. Sure a few of them (including Zavok!) took a bath in lava, but if they're truly based on the Koopas, then a dip into a volcano isn't gonna finish them off.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Sega has a handful of ongoing successful series, but Nintendo has more of them, and I'd argue they have more household names as well. And that doesn't factor in how Smash has already included third-party characters for more appeal.

Creating action games in the past also doesn't necessarily mean they can create a fighting game with mechanics as widely enjoyed as Smash's.

SEGA has characters from plenty of well-known series that would easily draw attention to it. People grew up on a lot of those games. And with some of these series making comebacks and characters making appearances in other games, they will definitely an All-Star cast. Plus, we know SEGA is not above adding guest characters themselves.

If people enjoyed those action games in the past, I'm not going to somehow doubt that people won't enjoy them now.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah sure. Don't know why this was mentioned but...okay.

You literally asked me why I couldn't imagine them making one now, I explained my thought process. This isn't hard.

You can't really say that for sure. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe sold 67.35 million (more than Ultimate), yet latest game sold much less at 1.73 million. That's just only slightly more than latest All-Stars Racing game, which sold 1.36 million. Smash could very end up the same, with the next game selling less than Ultimate. Therefore, it's not silly to think SEGA, which has already been a crossover roll lately, could compete with Smash and they don't have outsell Ultimate to do that.

I have no idea what game this is even referring to. If it's Mario Kart Tour, it had at least 200 million downloads and made at least 200 million dollars, which is equivalent to at least 3.33 million copies of a normal 60 dollar game, and that number probably isn't even accurate, plus it's a smart phone game.

Are you seriously using Home Circuit to hit me with a "gotcha" about Mario Kart? Wow, I'm so shocked that the game that requires you to buy a 100 dollar RC car to race around your living room sold so little comparatively. Give me a break, dude.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

So, what Pokemon do you want as Pokeball Pokemon next Smash Bros., guys?

I actually think Greavard would be a nice addition. If Waluigi somehow doesn't get in the next game, at least he can have this little guy for company.

 

[Laniv]

To heck with it, put Chaos in Crossworlds

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

Yeah, given the conclusion of Forces, trying to bring back Infinite would probably feel contrived, and I think Sega knows this. Whereas the door is definitely still open for the D6. Sure a few of them (including Zavok!) took a bath in lava, but if they're truly based on the Koopas, then a dip into a volcano isn't gonna finish them off.

Just had a thought: Wasn't there lava below Zavok when he was in his giant form in the final battle against him in Lost World? I mean, if he fell into it after being defeated, and he came back the next number of games, I'd say you are correct that a lava dip won't finish them off for good.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Just had a thought: Wasn't there lava below Zavok when he was in his giant form in the final battle against him in Lost World? I mean, if he fell into it after being defeated, and he came back the next number of games, I'd say you are correct that a lava dip won't finish them off for good.

Precisely!

Like I said, if they're based on Bowser and his underlings, if there's anything that'll kill them, it's certainly not lava.

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s another option if they can’t do Alear for whatever reason:

 

[Jave]

We're at page 2000 and I want to say that I fully support Alear for Smash 6 and I hope we get news on the game sooner rather than later.

Thanks for all this great discussion.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Precisely!

Like I said, if they're based on Bowser and his underlings, if there's anything that'll kill them, it's certainly not lava.

Of course! By the way, about Infinite...

x.com

x.com

It seems Morio Kishimoto, the current director of Sonic games, would like to see Infinite again in a future game, or games. I'd say that would still be contrived, don't you think?

 

[Ivander]

Sigurd would actually be kinda cute because then Alear would be carrying out their mother's Emblem of choice and that could make some fans squee at the thought.

But Marth has always been there for Alear except for when he wasn't but that's a spoiler so it makes sense that he'd be the one who takes the focus. That would be like saying you wanted to design Joker for Smash and choose to center the moveset around literally any Persona EXCEPT Arsene, the one Persona he always canonically acquires before any other no matter how you play Persona 5.

"But Marth's already in the game."

The Emblem being all ghostly is more than enough to tell the two apart. Especially if Emblem Marth only shows up in the moves he participates in.

Besides, one benefit that Marth can get from being an Emblem for Alear is that you could make his Emblem version, and his Spoiler version, Alternate costumes for playable Marth.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well, speaking of Sonic, would anyone like to see classic Sonic characters like Mighty, Ray and Fang as spirits?

EDIT: 80,000 post! (Not that it means anything, of course)