Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

I'm a little late for this, but Doom Slayer is definitely one of the most requested characters at this point. And nothing is really stopping him from being added. I feel like he's almost a guarantee for the next game. With Doom being the grandfather of FPS games and having a large presence on Nintendo consoles, I definitely think he'd get in before Master Chief. But I wouldn't be surprised if both got in. Master Chief is also super requested and a massive icon.

I agree that both Doom Slayer and Master Chief are important enough in gaming history to earn a spot in Smash. They’d both make for some pretty cool characters as well. Chief’s only issue is that he’s never appeared on a Nintendo console. This is the same thing holding back WarCraft from being a top contender in my eyes (assuming Microsoft addresses Blizzard’s internal issues). It’s funny that WarCraft is probably Blizzard’s most iconic IP yet it’s the only one to never appear on Nintendo. I don’t personally think that prevents them from getting in as characters. After all, Sakurai and Nintendo make the rules and can ad whoever they want. It’s just something to consider.

If I had to pick one third party character as most likely, I’d go with Dr. Eggman. Sonic was one of the first third party characters in Smash and has now had two successful movies with a third on the way. This makes the franchise more relevant than it’s been in a very long time and I believe it will likely result in another Smash character. Tails or Knuckles are also possibilities but at this point it almost feels wrong to add just one of them without the other.

 

[UberPyro64]

I agree that both Doom Slayer and Master Chief are important enough in gaming history to earn a spot in Smash. They’d both make for some pretty cool characters as well. Chief’s only issue is that he’s never appeared on a Nintendo console. This is the same thing holding back WarCraft from being a top contender in my eyes (assuming Microsoft addresses Blizzard’s internal issues). It’s funny that WarCraft is probably Blizzard’s most iconic IP yet it’s the only one to never appear on Nintendo. I don’t personally think that prevents them from getting in as characters. After all, Sakurai and Nintendo make the rules and can ad whoever they want. It’s just something to consider.

If I had to pick one third party character as most likely, I’d go with Dr. Eggman. Sonic was one of the first third party characters in Smash and has now had two successful movies with a third on the way. This makes the franchise more relevant than it’s been in a very long time and I believe it will likely result in another Smash character. Tails or Knuckles are also possibilities but at this point it almost feels wrong to add just one of them without the other.

I'd love Eggman, though I'm not sure how likely he would be. Sephiroth shows it's possible, but that scenario could also be a one-time thing. I hope that's not the case.

As for most likely, besides Doom Slayer, I'd say a League of Legends rep has a pretty big chance of getting in. Massive franchise worldwide, and has been on a Nintendo console before. Jinx seems to be the most popular or at least one of the most popular characters, (plus she's in Arcane which was incredible), so I could see the rep being her.

 

[osby]

I wouldn't mind Eggman but I can't help but feel like the fandom only collectively decided that he's the only possible Sonic character we can get just because of Sephiroth.

I can easily see Tails or Shadow being chosen in the case we get another fighter from that series.

 

[Gengar84]

I wouldn't mind Eggman but I can't help but feel like the fandom only collectively decided that he's the only possible Sonic character we can get just because of Sephiroth.

I can easily see Tails or Shadow being chosen in the case we get another fighter from that series.

I feel like the success of the movies pushes Eggman farther ahead of the competition since he’s been the main antagonist in both films. Tails and Knuckles are both very iconic and deserving on their own right, but for me, they almost have to come together at this point. Having just Sonic and Tails or Sonic and Knuckles without the third member of the trio doesn’t feel right. Shadow is another possibility but I feel like he doesn’t have quite the same legacy as the above three. Still, I could see Sakurai going with any of those four so I’m not writing any of them off. I just feel that Eggman is the most likely for the reasons stated above.

I agree about Jinx for the same reason I feel that Eggman is likely. League of Legends was already huge but I feel that it is doing a great job branching out into other genres and media to expand its audience even further. I had no real knowledge of the universe of LoL since I’m not into competitive online games but I’ve seen two episodes of Arcane now and I’m really enjoying it. The fighting game looks really cool too from what little I’ve seen.

 

[Chuderz]

I know it's likely they'd call him Eggman but I'd very much prefer Dr.Robotnik be his name in the west. Isn't that what he's called in the movies? I think that might help my case.

 

[Gengar84]

I know it's likely they'd call him Eggman but I'd very much prefer Dr.Robotnik be his name in the west. Isn't that what he's called in the movies? I think that might help my case.

Same here. I always call him Robotnik when I talk about the character with my friends but most people today know him as Eggman. Eggman was always his name in Japan and eventually became his name in English as well but I don’t remember exactly when that happened. I’ve also always referred to the Koopalings as the Koopa Kids thanks to American media like the cartoon growing up. To me, it still almost feels like calling Mega Man “Rock Man”. I just never completely got used to their Japanese names even though Eggman and the Koopalings changed over many years ago.

 

[Dinoman96]

I'm a little late for this, but Doom Slayer is definitely one of the most requested characters at this point. And nothing is really stopping him from being added. I feel like he's almost a guarantee for the next game. With Doom being the grandfather of FPS games and having a large presence on Nintendo consoles, I definitely think he'd get in before Master Chief. But I wouldn't be surprised if both got in. Master Chief is also super requested and a massive icon.

And yet, we got Joker before any SMT character. Also Cloud before Hero, or a more Nintendo associated FF protag like Terra.

Really I don't think Nintendo/Sakurai care about seniority or association with their consoles as much as people seem to think they do. As Ultimate's DLC cycle in particular have shown, they care more about who's more popular/marketable. Like, back in Brawl, we got Solid freaking Snake as the very first third party in Smash, before someone like Simon Belmont lol

The only real exceptions in that regard are the specific fan requested ones, like how we got Banjo & Kazooie before Steve.

 

[Gengar84]

And yet, we got Joker before any SMT character. Also Cloud before Hero, or a more Nintendo associated FF protag like Terra.

Really I don't think Nintendo/Sakurai care about seniority or association with their consoles as much as people seem to think they do. As Ultimate's DLC cycle in particular have shown, they care more about who's more popular/marketable. Like, back in Brawl, we got Solid freaking Snake as the very first third party in Smash, before someone like Simon Belmont lol

The only real exceptions in that regard are the specific fan requested ones, like how we got Banjo & Kazooie before Steve.

I still think it’s important for Smash to pull from both areas. Smash is a celebration of gaming history, not just what’s currently popular. Going with characters with more of a history keeps the game from feeling as outdated as the years go on. For example, Min Min might feel a bit out of place if we never get another Arms game. Not that I think she’s a bad addition, it’s just that you don’t want to become overly reliant on what’s currently popular right now because that might change in a few years. A mix of current and retro characters is ideal in my opinion and the character’s impact on gaming history should factor into that.

Also, Joker may have been from a recent game but the series he represented (Persona) is much older. Its parent series, SMT, dates back even further all the way back to 1992 on the SNES.

 

[Dinoman96]

Konami: Metal Gear, Castlevania
SEGA: Sonic, Bayonetta, Persona (Atlus)
Capcom: Mega Man, Street Fighter
Bandai Namco: Pac-Man, Tekken
Square-Enix: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest
Microsoft: Banjo-Kazooie, Minecraft (Mojang)
SNK: Fatal Fury (Terry is SNK's mascot)
Disney: Kingdom Hearts (you can count this as Square-Enix if you want, I guess)

Once again pretty much all of third parties repped in Smash are the top dogs at their respective companies, the only real exceptions being, again, the specific fan requested ones, like Banjo, Bayonetta and Sora (technically KH IS one of Square-Enix's top franchises...but ultimately it's owned by Disney).

From that perspective, Monster Hunter and Resident Evil for Capcom and Halo for Microsoft are probably the most glaring exclusions. Maybe Yakuza and Puyo for SEGA?

 

[PeridotGX]

Same here. I always call him Robotnik when I talk about the character with my friends but most people today know him as Eggman. Eggman was always his name in Japan and eventually became his name in English as well but I don’t remember exactly when that happened. I’ve also always referred to the Koopalings as the Koopa Kids thanks to American media like the cartoon growing up. To me, it still almost feels like calling Mega Man “Rock Man”. I just never completely got used to their Japanese names even though Eggman and the Koopalings changed over many years ago.

I think it was Sonic Adventure 1, which was when Sega of Japan started to take more control of the IP in the west, rather than letting SoA do it's own thing. I think the current canon is that his real name is Doctor Ivo Robotnick and that Eggman is a nickname, which seems like a fair compromise (I know that's what the first movie did, anyways).

I'm a fair bit younger than Sonic Adventure 1, so he's always been Eggman to me (unless I'm watching the old cartoon or something, which I did as a kid). I also think I prefer Eggman, Robotnik is a bit too serious for a pretty goofy character like him. It's like how Peach used to be "Princess Toadstool", it's completely bizarre to me.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it was Sonic Adventure 1, which was when Sega of Japan started to take more control of the IP in the west, rather than letting SoA do it's own thing. I think the current canon is that his real name is Doctor Ivo Robotnick and that Eggman is a nickname, which seems like a fair compromise (I know that's what the first movie did, anyways).

I'm a fair bit younger than Sonic Adventure 1, so he's always been Eggman to me (unless I'm watching the old cartoon or something, which I did as a kid). I also think I prefer Eggman, Robotnik is a bit too serious for a pretty goofy character like him. It's like how Peach used to be "Princess Toadstool", it's completely bizarre to me.

That makes a lot of sense. Peach took me quite a while to get used to as well but her name stuck better than Eggman and the Koopalings with me. Possibly because I play a lot more Mario games than Sonic games so I just got acclimated to her new name faster. It almost feels wrong calling her Princess Toadstool these days despite growing up with the NES.

 

[Perkilator]

I wouldn't mind Eggman but I can't help but feel like the fandom only collectively decided that he's the only possible Sonic character we can get just because of Sephiroth.

I can easily see Tails or Shadow being chosen in the case we get another fighter from that series.

While I’d be happy with any other Sonic character, the difficulty in choosing one of Sonic’s friends is trying to decide whether they’re a completely unique character or a Sonic Echo to some degree. Hence why my vote, personally, goes to Eggman.

 

[Gengar84]

While I’d be happy with any other Sonic character, the difficulty in choosing one of Sonic’s friends is trying to decide whether they’re a completely unique character or a Sonic Echo to some degree. Hence why my vote, personally, goes to Eggman.

That makes sense. I could see them getting a completely original moveset so that’s not the issue for me. My issue is that by adding just one of Sonic’s friends, the other would feel like it’s missing. It would be like if we added Peppy Hare to the next game and had all of team Star Fox except Slippy. To me, if you’re going to add one, you might as well add both. I’m fine with that too but two Sonic characters in one game might be too much.

 

[fogbadge]

i think people forget that maybe the 3 party companies may push some of their characters. i can believe sega pushed joker and SE push sephiroth. like they always do

 

[Gengar84]

i think people forget that maybe the 3 party companies may push some of their characters. i can believe sega pushed joker and SE push sephiroth. like they always do

Oh yeah, I’m totally factoring that into why I feel that Eggman and Jinx have a good chance. That’s why I brought up the Sonic movies and Arcane.

 

[PeridotGX]

I wouldn't mind Eggman but I can't help but feel like the fandom only collectively decided that he's the only possible Sonic character we can get just because of Sephiroth.

I can easily see Tails or Shadow being chosen in the case we get another fighter from that series.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. The smash fandom has a big bias towards villains, as can be seen with the Ridley/K.Rool fanbase. Once the big 90's scrimblo bad guys get in, and they know Eggman is on the table, they move to him.

 

[Gengar84]

I think there's a bit more to it than that. The smash fandom has a big bias towards villains, as can be seen with the Ridley/K.Rool fanbase. Once the big 90's scrimblo bad guys get in, and they know Eggman is on the table, they move to him.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve always generally preferred villains over heroes as a rule. My personal most wanted list had Xemnas before Sora was ever added. I’d still take Magus over Crono and Sarah Kerrigan over Jim Raynor along with a ton of other examples. The problem is that third party villains seemed like an impossibility before Sephiroth. Sephiroth is also one of my favorite gaming characters and I’ve always liked him more than Cloud.

Even putting aside my personal preference for most villains as characters, it’s just cool to pit heroes against their villains in Smash. Adding in a side protagonist instead loses a bit of that for me.

That being said, Knuckles is actually my favorite Sonic character. He wouldjust feel weird being in without Tails along side him. I wouldn’t complain though.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I'd love Eggman, though I'm not sure how likely he would be. Sephiroth shows it's possible, but that scenario could also be a one-time thing. I hope that's not the case.

As for most likely, besides Doom Slayer, I'd say a League of Legends rep has a pretty big chance of getting in. Massive franchise worldwide, and has been on a Nintendo console before. Jinx seems to be the most popular or at least one of the most popular characters, (plus she's in Arcane which was incredible), so I could see the rep being her.

Seconding League being slept on. Don't care about League personally beyond Arcane but League is probs gonna get in Smash especially with how friendly Nintendo is with Tencent. Jinx imo is the frontrunner since she is one of the most popular characters and her popularity is getting bigger due to Arcane. Obviously there could be someone else, but if I had to bet I would bet on Jinx.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. The smash fandom has a big bias towards villains, as can be seen with the Ridley/K.Rool fanbase. Once the big 90's scrimblo bad guys get in, and they know Eggman is on the table, they move to him.

Yeah, tbh we already saw Eggman getting a lot more popularity right after Sephiroth. He went from in a close race in terms of being the second unique Sonic newcomer to arguably the frontrunner. He's one of the last huge villains we can add left. Would love to see him personally, if only so we get Death Egg Robot and Big Arm in smash as tracks.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think something that helps Eggman is the perception that he'd be a full blown unique newcomer. Whereas guys like Tails, Knuckles or Shadow would most likely be derived from Sonic's moveset in someway.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve recently come around to the idea of a League of Legends character in Smash. I’ve always felt the franchise was deserving, the characters were cool, and they would make for fun and unique fighters. My only problem was that I felt that LoL was heavily inspired from WarCraft, it should hold off on getting a character until either StarCraft or WarCraft did first. LoL’s growing popularity combined with Blizzard’s controversies made me accept either outcome. I’d still love to see a StarCraft or WarCraft character but I’m fine with LoL getting one first.

 

[Quillion]

I think something that helps Eggman is the perception that he'd be a full blown unique newcomer. Whereas guys like Tails, Knuckles or Shadow would most likely be derived from Sonic's moveset in someway.

Shadow could either work as a full echo or at least replacing Homing Attack with Chaos Spear for Neutral B, but I think Tails and Knuckles have enough source material to have entirely different normals and 3/4 different specials, only sharing the spin dash since that's the signature attack of the franchise anyway.

Of course, they certainly still need to replace Sonic's dumb, redundant Side B.

 

[UberPyro64]

And yet, we got Joker before any SMT character. Also Cloud before Hero, or a more Nintendo associated FF protag like Terra.

Really I don't think Nintendo/Sakurai care about seniority or association with their consoles as much as people seem to think they do. As Ultimate's DLC cycle in particular have shown, they care more about who's more popular/marketable. Like, back in Brawl, we got Solid freaking Snake as the very first third party in Smash, before someone like Simon Belmont lol

The only real exceptions in that regard are the specific fan-requested ones, like how we got Banjo & Kazooie before Steve.

Persona has become more successful than SMT ever was. and FF is a good bit bigger than DQ worldwide, plus there were issues getting DQ in. While Doom and Halo are both hugely successful and comparable. At least today they are. Back in the 00s, Halo would obviously be the pick, but Doom is definitely of similar popularity today as Halo. And Doom Slayer is an incredibly requested character. But so is Master Chief. So really, my stance is we should get both. Doom Slayer would make for a better base game character, while Master Chief would be better as DLC, but that's subjective and just my opinion.

 

[Gengar84]

Shadow could either work as a full echo or at least replacing Homing Attack with Chaos Spear for Neutral B, but I think Tails and Knuckles have enough source material to have entirely different normals and 3/4 different specials, only sharing the spin dash since that's the signature attack of the franchise anyway.

Of course, they certainly still need to replace Sonic's dumb, redundant Side B.

If that’s true, I could see us getting both Eggman as a unique character and Shadow as a bonus echo of Sonic. I haven’t played many modern Sonic games so I’m not familiar with Shadow’s moveset.

 

[UberPyro64]

If that’s true, I could see us getting both Eggman as a unique character and Shadow as a bonus echo of Sonic. I haven’t played many modern Sonic games so I’m not familiar with Shadow’s moveset.

I almost wonder if Metal Sonic would be a better Echo choice. If they were coming with Eggman.

 

[Quillion]

I almost wonder if Metal Sonic would be a better Echo choice. If they were coming with Eggman.

Metal could work as a full echo too, or he could share mostly the same moveset but have his V. Maximum Overdrive for Dash Attack and Ring Spark Field for Neutral Aerial.

 

[SPEN18]

I have difficulty seeing a Western-focused third party newcomer in the base game; given that in base game cycles we've only ever gotten a select few third parties at a time (almost all of which have been retro icons from Japanese companies), I think that it's far more likely that they'll use those slots on characters with more worldwide appeal. We'll see about DLC once we get to that point.

 

[Dan Quixote]

I have difficulty seeing a Western-focused third party newcomer in the base game; given that in base game cycles we've only ever gotten a select few third parties at a time (almost all of which have been retro icons from Japanese companies), I think that it's far more likely that they'll use those slots on characters with more worldwide appeal. We'll see about DLC once we get to that point.

Don't plenty of non-Japanese characters have a worldwide appeal?

 

[Gengar84]

I think the base game will likely be primarily first party characters with a few highly requested third party characters. Since Nintendo is a Japanese company, this would mean that most characters in the base game would probably be Japanese as well since the majority would be from Nintendo themselves. There’s still a chance for a western third party base game but I’m only expecting maybe three third party newcomers total in the base game. We did get a western (first party) character in K. Rool in the base game for Ultimate and I could see us potentially getting Dixie in Smash 6 so it isn’t unprecedented. The big three from Microsoft, Scorpion or Sub-Zero, a Blizzard character, or a League of Legends character definitely have enough mainstream appeal to make it into the base game.

I’m expecting the bulk of the DLC to focus on third party characters with a few more first party characters similar to what happened in Ultimate. I’m hoping we get a good mix of western and Japanese characters once the DLC is finished.

 

[SPEN18]

Don't plenty of non-Japanese characters have a worldwide appeal?

Well sure, but by "Western-focused" I mostly had in mind the ones primarily demanded in the West.

But even those with "worldwide appeal" that are made by Western companies seem to be at a disadvantage if we go by the precedent I mentioned. I'm not sure of all the reasons for it, but it's clear from, say, Mega Man or Simon getting in before a host of other potential third parties that they value characters of the type I mentioned.

 

[UberPyro64]

I think the base game will likely be primarily first party characters with a few highly requested third party characters. Since Nintendo is a Japanese company, this would mean that most characters in the base game would probably be Japanese as well since the majority would be from Nintendo themselves. There’s still a chance for a western third party base game but I’m only expecting maybe three third party newcomers total in the base game. We did get a western (first party) character in K. Rool in the base game for Ultimate and I could see us potentially getting Dixie in Smash 6 so it isn’t unprecedented. The big three from Microsoft, Scorpion or Sub-Zero, a Blizzard character, or a League of Legends character definitely have enough mainstream appeal to make it into the base game.

I’m expecting the bulk of the DLC to focus on third party characters with a few more first party characters similar to what happened in Ultimate. I’m hoping we get a good mix of western and Japanese characters once the DLC is finished.

I'd add a Valve rep to that. Portal is coming to Switch after all. Though Chell might be hard to make work, so I'd bet on Gordon Freeman. Since Portal is a spin-off of Half-Life and Gordon is basically Mr. Valve. Though, a lot of people want the Heavy.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd add a Valve rep to that. Portal is coming to Switch after all. Though Chell might be hard to make work, so I'd bet on Gordon Freeman. Since Portal is a spin-off of Half-Life and Gordon is basically Mr. Valve. Though, a lot of people want the Heavy.

There’s also Lara Croft, who I feel is very deserving but almost never gets brought up in Smash speculation. It’s strange that she was such a huge icon and had multiple movies and a successful reboot yet still somehow gets passed over in Smash speculation.

 

[fogbadge]

There’s also Lara Croft, who I feel is very deserving but almost never gets brought up in Smash speculation. It’s strange that she was such a huge icon and had multiple movies and a successful reboot yet still somehow gets passed over in Smash speculation.

i know. shes probably right up sakurai's street, like bayo and pythra

 

[Gengar84]

i know. shes probably right up sakurai's street, like bayo and pythra

Somehow, I detect a bit of sarcasm in that post. Do you not agree that she is deserving for Smash? They toned down her sexualization a lot in the reboot so she’s not really in the same class as Bayo anymore. I’d honestly argue that she was always more tame than Bayo, Pythra, Cia, or Camilla. Even before she existed, I’d argue that Cammy and Black Orchid were both more sexualized than Lara.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Still a poor man's Kunio & Riki!

Just take your pick of moves!

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Born to Smash!

Doesn't look any better to me. They both can work equally well in Smash.

You really want to bring some attention to River City, huh? Okay, fine. Ryuichi and Ryuji for Smash!

 

[Gengar84]

Doesn't look any better to me. They both can work equally well in Smash.

You really want to bring some attention to River City, huh? Okay, fine. Ryuichi and Ryuji for Smash!

You guys are both wrong. The real beat ‘em up reps Smash needs are the protagonists from Rival Turf! I unironically loved that game lol.

 

[fogbadge]

Somehow, I detect a bit of sarcasm in that post. Do you not agree that she is deserving for Smash? They toned down her sexualization a lot in the reboot so she’s not really in the same class as Bayo anymore. I’d honestly argue that she was always more tame than Bayo, Pythra, Cia, or Camilla. Even before she existed, I’d argue that Cammy and Black Orchid were both more sexualized than Lara.

the sarcasm was more meant to be at sakurais fondness for sexualised characters

as for Lara, well I don’t believe anyone “deserves” to be in smash, except maybe the last few Nintendo all stars, but I would certainly have thought she would be a reasonable candidate

 

[Gengar84]

the sarcasm was more meant to be at sakurais fondness for sexualised characters

as for Lara, well I don’t believe anyone “deserves” to be in smash, except maybe the last few Nintendo all stars, but I would certainly have thought she would be a reasonable candidate

Sorry, it can be hard to infer tone and intent through text. My bad. I guess “deserves” was a poor choice of words but it really confuses me how little attention she gets among Smash fans.

 

[fogbadge]

I guess “deserves” was a poor choice of words but it really confuses me how little attention she gets among Smash fans.

there’s a few characters like that I find, Lara seems to come up every now and then. The ones I wonder why they don’t come up is the sims and lemmings

although at a guess I’d say EA is the problem with the former and the latter has internal competition

 

[Wonder Smash]

You guys are both wrong. The real beat ‘em up reps Smash needs are the protagonists from Rival Turf! I unironically loved that game lol.

View attachment 350116

I've played Brawl Brothers myself years ago. Game was really fun.

But in this case, Lee Brothers over Brawl Brothers for Smash Brothers.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Yes I would be okay with Inkling, they would still have the same basic abilities, but yeah, Splatoon isn't a FPS.

Metroid Prime I also have no objections about, but I feel the franchise just captures the feel of Metroid better in 2D as a Metroidvania, Dread solidified that.

Then again, Samus and Inkling are literal Nintendo characters, and have abilities that don't involve shooting, and their weapons aren't all that realistic either. Shooting ink? A literal arm canon that also shoot missiles and nuclear blasts alike from a Power Suit that can turn her into a ball? Yeah that's Nintendo.

This is why I'd feel a character from Overwatch might be the best choice if they'd absolutely have to have a FPS fighter, cause in Overwatch there's also a huge fantasy theme going on, and mixes shooting with magic and related stuff.

I think Apex does something similar imo. Like, Wattson would be perfect for Smash with her whole Electricity thing. Also a Canonically Autistic Character would make me, someone who actually has Autism, very happy. And as a bonus Apex is very popular in Japan I guess.