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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,513
Echoes can be alternate costumes in all but unique animations already so I don't get why people still rally behind the latter.

I don't really see an advantage of them aside from possibly cramming more than two characters into one slot but only Boswser Jr. and Hero do this, anyway.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
But that's still ignoring what some characters have established in their game. Pico could be the same size and similar shaping as Captain Falcon, but that would be ignoring the fact that he is a Boba Fett-esque hitman proficient with different weapons.
Like making an original moveset just so that some characters can share a spot together would not only require that moveset to be ungodly original and precise for it to work for all those characters in the first place, but also require ignoring already established traits and lore of those characters. That feels like very much the opposite of what Smash Bros. characters are made in mind with. The movesets are made with intent and respect for not just the characters, but also the games they came from.
Hero and Olimar/Alph work because their movesets had the gameplay in mind and intent and the characters they chose fit perfectly with that moveset. In Bowser Jr.'s case, the moveset was made with Bowser Jr. in mind and the Koopalings were basically for cool factor Alternates that the team felt they could use with the moveset without it being out-of-nowhere.

It's still not easy considering it's jarring enough that Chrom is the same height as Lucina in Smash Bros. despite Lucina being shorter than Chrom officially in their game. It may seem easy because the characters are never really seen side-by-side with a character from another game(especially compared to Heroes where characters tend to look the same height due to chibi-fied sprites) and most Fire Emblem characters don't have official heights. You wouldn't know how tall Chrom is compared to Roy and whatnot, so you could make them the same size if you wanted. But that doesn't mean that every character should be adjusted just to favor gameplay.
In the case for Hector, we have a CG of Lyn, Eliwood and Hector together and Hector is shown to be quite large.

If Eliwood were to be around the same height as the other main characters, Hector would be a head-size over them. Depending on the characters he was sharing spots with, you'd either have to make him much more shorter or make the other characters much larger, especially depending on the character. Edelgard is shorter than Byleth, so assuming Byleth is shorter than Hector, Hector would be towering over Edelgard. Even if you did a middle ground for them, it would still look quite jarring considering it would either make Edelgard look too tall or Hector too short. And do note that Timeskip Edelgard is the same height as Pre-Timeskip Edelgard.

It's really not so simple to just change characters or movesets just to make other characters fit. Smash Bros. is about quality and respect to the characters and the games they are from. When you make movesets just to have characters share spots, it can easily lose that quality.
Like the only reason why we have Chrom, Roy and Lucina along with Marth is because one: Lucina was both a popular character and an easy Clone at the time due to being an intended Costume for Marth. And two: Roy and Chrom were wanted by fans. Roy's moveset was done as a Semi-Clone style of Marth's due to having originally been a clone of Marth and wanting to keep a similar feel for Roy's gameplay in Melee, and Chrom was an easy Echo they could do.
I can see your points there. Personally I feel like completely changing everything about how the Koopalings fight just to fit them as alts as Bowser Jr. would be less jarring than having Pico fight like Falcon but that’s just a matter of opinion. I also find it jarring that K. Rool is actually smaller than Donkey Kong in Smash despite being over twice his size in DKC and DK64. That’s why I no longer see the size argument as an issue since not much can get more extreme than that.

1649701947116.jpeg
 
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fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
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Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,113
Location
Scotland
I can see your points there. Personally I feel like completely changing everything about how the Koopalings fight just to fit them as alts as Bowser Jr. would be less jarring than having Pico fight like Falcon but that’s just a matter of opinion. I also find it jarring that K. Rool is actually smaller than Donkey Kong in Smash despite being over twice his size in DKC and DK64. That’s why I no longer see the size argument as an issue since not much can get more extreme than that.

View attachment 349995
lets not forget bowsers size is pretty inconsistent as well
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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Dec 8, 2004
Messages
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Switch FC
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Yeah it was always weird to me too, the size issue. In my opinion, they could play with this more , for example shrink down Pikachu but his hitboxes remain the same due to using more electrical attacks, which should already be happening in the first place, and you buff bigger characters by giving them more super armor and automatically having superior range and weight by the size differences. It seems to me this would fix the heavyweights in an indirect way as well.

But sure the size argument is moot, Ridley was always deemed 2big, now he's smaller than DK and Bowser, DK towering over his archnemesis K.Rool too, despite this not being the case in the source material (in general I think DK would benefit from not being so big and heavy in the first place, and redesign him as a proper lightning bruiser but yeah).
 
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Oct 31, 2018
Messages
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Also about the whole Fire Emblem character alt thing, a lot of that could work. Hector and Edelgard for example, Seliph, Leif and Alm for Marth / Roy / Chrom, but that's honestly about it. A standalone fighter they could make with very many alts is the Pegasus Rider, having as alts Palla, Catria, Est and other notable Pegasus Riders from Fire Emblem. But that's a hot take.
It's kind of funny, but Alm probably has more Link DNA than anything. He's a lefty, and his class upgrade gives him a bow and shield. And at least in Shadows of Valentia, he doesn't really fight with a lot of finesse.

I do agree that there are a bunch of FE characters that could work with the Bowser Jr. idea, but I'd say they are all side characters and not the major ones who get the majority of the unique animations. Pegasus riders are a good example, and you could probably get myrmidons and knights to work pretty well.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
Echoes can be alternate costumes in all but unique animations already so I don't get why people still rally behind the latter.

I don't really see an advantage of them aside from possibly cramming more than two characters into one slot but only Boswser Jr. and Hero do this, anyway.
There are only two real reasons I support alts over echos. The first is exactly as you said with a Bowser Jr. and Hero situation which allows you to have a ton more characters without having to make 7 different echos. The sad truth is that most of these characters would never make it in Smash any other way. I’ll gladly sacrifice some of the character’s unique traits if it means I actually get to play as them in some way. This is the same logic people use for clones but applied to more niche characters that probably still wouldn’t make it even as a clone.

The second is “player 2” characters like Lance Bean from Contra that play identically to the “player one” character. In pretty much every other situation I can think of, echos are preferable.

Most people are fine with Miis so I don’t really see how alts of other characters is any worse or less faithful. In most cases, alts would feel a lot more like you’re actually playing as the character compared to a Mii.
 
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Diddy Kong

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It's kind of funny, but Alm probably has more Link DNA than anything. He's a lefty, and his class upgrade gives him a bow and shield. And at least in Shadows of Valentia, he doesn't really fight with a lot of finesse.

I do agree that there are a bunch of FE characters that could work with the Bowser Jr. idea, but I'd say they are all side characters and not the major ones who get the majority of the unique animations. Pegasus riders are a good example, and you could probably get myrmidons and knights to work pretty well.
Honestly , the lack of finesse would make me prefer that Alm be a Echo to Roy, but to make things a little more interesting, give him Marth's tipper mechanic, as their swords are basically the same anyway.

Or a Ike Echo, with the Marth tippers, and a Up B that's from Marth too maybe? I dunno.

Lots of Fire Emblem characters could work as total blender mixes of current characters on the roster. For example, Celica, give her Marth's normals, Archfire of Robin, Flare Blade of Roy, Din's Fire of Zelda, and you already have a pretty good true to life Celica fit for Smash.
 

Geno Boost

Smash Master
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Jul 25, 2014
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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Alright i have decided to make a whole smash move set for Bejeweled rep this took me a long time to research but i figured how it could work.

Intro: Coming out of the portal


Taunt: Will ring Chimestone.
chimee.PNG

Taunt 2: Will dance to Panda-monium.
pandaa.PNG

Taunt 3: Kanga Ruby will flex.

Victory: Will wear Crown Jewel.
croewnn.PNG

Victory 2: Kanga Ruby will do his victory pose.

Idle animation: Regular form

Flame form
reg.PNG

Hypercube form

During Hypercube form you become very floaty but you cant use any attack or shield besides Neutral Special (which is placing White Gems) and Down Special (which would be an electric explosion) and Grab Attacks and Dodges.

Jump animation: It will show butterfly wings when jumping just like Bayonetta.
blueee.PNG


Shield: it will become Bomb Gem if shield gets broken it will destroy you and your stock similar to Jigglypuff shield.
timbee.PNG


Side Smash: Spawns Kanga Ruby and punches forward works similar to Mii Brawler side smash.
kang.PNG


Up Smash: spawns Purple Gem that spins like a drill on top its a multi hit attack.



Down Smash: spawns Aquamarine under you and and hits both side its multi hit attack projectile.

aqq.PNG

aquaa.PNG


Neutral Special: Spawns a White Gem and the maximum would be 5 of them similar to Steve placing a block it can be in the air and it can be damaged but the difference is its not a platform and it will stay there for long and would function specifically in 1 case that is blowing up if the Blue Gem form has changed to Hypercube and use Down special that will blow up all the placed White Gems.


Side Special: Transform into Blue Thunder and it works like Wolf side special and a mix of Pikachu up special however you can trigger rotation to the opposite side to make it a double hit but it will always be 45 degree in terms of directions.
bluee.PNG
thundder.PNG


Up Special: Transform into Rock-It Blast and fly high and makes firework explosion and you can also trigger the firework explosion early.
rockettt.PNG
roxkk.PNG


Down Special: works similar to smash Crusade Tetromino Down special it spawns 2 or 3 or 4 Blue Gems down while your Blue Gem will fall down in the middle however it comes in 3 ways.
There is 60% chance it would spawns 2 Blue Gems.
->
<-

There is 30% chance it would spawns 3 Blue Gems and it would result in changing into Flame form.
->
<-

There is 10% chance it would spawns 4 Blue Gems and it would result in changing into Hypercube form.
->
<-

Using Down special in Flame form would result in fire explosion then return back to the regular form.
rgag.PNG

using Down special in Hypercube form would result in electric explosion including all the placed White Gems then return back to the regular form.


Jab Attack: Spawns Red Gem then Orange Gem then Green Gem the attack is in 3 parts if you mash the button and Red Gem can reflect projectile while Green Gem will bury someone or spike downward.


Side Tilt: Spawns Green Gem that hits forward it can also spike downward.


Up Tilt: Spawns 2 Yellow Gem that hits upward





Down Tilt: Spawns 2 Purple Gem from the ground that acts like a ground spike in front of you.


Dash Attack: Spawns 2 Orange Gems that hits forward.


Neutral Air: Spawns 2 Red Gems between you and then spins around you and it works similar to R.O.B. side special but have shorter animation and it reflects projectiles.


Side Air: Spawns Orange Gem from the back side and moves it in the front side while the Blue Gem will move to the back side of the Orange Gem.

Back Air: Places a Bomb in the air that explodes after 3 seconds or if something touches it.
bombb.PNG


Up Air: Spawns a Purple Gem Butterfly that flies upward works similarly to Megaman Up Air but without the wind and its a single hit projectile.
gjuu.PNG


Down Air: Spins like a drill from bottom its a multi hit attack.

Get up Attack: Spawns 2 Purple Gem between you from the ground that acts like a ground spike and then gets up.

Ledge Attack: Get up and inject from its bottom part.

Grab: spawns Gem Rotator as a way to grab.
rfe.PNG

Grab Attack: Spawns Yellow Gem to hit someone from the top.

Front Throw: the Gem Rotator rotates someone to throw it front.
Back Throw: the Gem Rotator rotates someone to throw it back.
Up Throw: the Gem Rotator rotates someone to throw it up.
Down Throw: Spawns the Green Gem from the top to bury someone down.


Final Smash: Supernova Gem Explosion


So tell me what do you think?
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
Alright i have decided to make a whole smash move set for Bejeweled rep this took me a long time to research but i figured how it could work.

Intro: Coming out of the portal


Taunt: Will ring Chimestone.
View attachment 350004
Taunt 2: Will dance to Panda-monium.
View attachment 350006
Taunt 3: Kanga Ruby will flex.

Victory: Will wear Crown Jewel.
View attachment 350001
Victory 2: Kanga Ruby will do his victory pose.

Idle animation: Regular form

Flame form
View attachment 349951
Hypercube form

During Hypercube form you become very floaty but you cant use any attack or shield besides Neutral Special (which is placing White Gems) and Down Special (which would be an electric explosion) and Grab Attacks and Dodges.

Jump animation: It will show butterfly wings when jumping just like Bayonetta.
View attachment 349987

Shield: it will become Bomb Gem if shield gets broken it will destroy you and your stock similar to Jigglypuff shield.
View attachment 349961

Side Smash: Spawns Kanga Ruby and punches forward works similar to Mii Brawler side smash.
View attachment 349990

Up Smash: spawns Purple Gem that spins like a drill on top its a multi hit attack.



Down Smash: spawns Aquamarine under you and and hits both side its multi hit attack projectile.

View attachment 349979
View attachment 349975

Neutral Special: Spawns a White Gem and the maximum would be 5 of them similar to Steve placing a block it can be in the air and it can be damaged but the difference is its not a platform and it will stay there for long and would function specifically in 1 case that is blowing up if the Blue Gem form has changed to Hypercube and use Down special that will blow up all the placed White Gems.


Side Special: Transform into Blue Thunder and it works like Wolf side special and a mix of Pikachu up special however you can trigger rotation to the opposite side to make it a double hit but it will always be 45 degree in terms of directions.
View attachment 349971View attachment 349973

Up Special: Transform into Rock-It Blast and fly high and makes firework explosion and you can also trigger the firework explosion early.
View attachment 349959View attachment 349974

Down Special: works similar to smash Crusade Tetromino Down special it spawns 2 or 3 or 4 Blue Gems down while your Blue Gem will fall down in the middle however it comes in 3 ways.
There is 65% chance it would spawns 2 Blue Gems.
->
<-

There is 35% chance it would spawns 3 Blue Gems and it would result in changing into Flame form.
->
<-

There is 10% chance it would spawns 4 Blue Gems and it would result in changing into Hypercube form.
->
<-

Using Down special in Flame form would result in fire explosion then return back to the regular form.
View attachment 349955
using Down special in Hypercube form would result in electric explosion including all the placed White Gems then return back to the regular form.


Jab Attack: Spawns Red Gem then Orange Gem then Green Gem the attack is in 3 parts if you mash the button and Red Gem can reflect projectile while Green Gem will bury someone or spike downward.


Side Tilt: Spawns Green Gem that hits forward it can also spike downward.


Up Tilt: Spawns 2 Yellow Gem that hits upward





Down Tilt: Spawns 2 Purple Gem from the ground that acts like a ground spike in front of you.


Dash Attack: Spawns 2 Orange Gems that hits forward.


Neutral Air: Spawns 2 Red Gems between you and then spins around you and it works similar to R.O.B. side special but have shorter animation and it reflects projectiles.


Side Air: Spawns Orange Gem from the back side and moves it in the front side while the Blue Gem will move to the back side of the Orange Gem.

Back Air: Places a Bomb in the air that explodes after 3 seconds or if something touches it.
View attachment 349967


Up Air: Spawns a Purple Gem Butterfly that flies upward works similarly to Megaman Up Air but without the wind and its a single hit projectile.
View attachment 349950

Down Air: Spins like a drill from bottom its a multi hit attack.

Get up Attack: Spawns 2 Purple Gem between you from the ground that acts like a ground spike and then gets up.

Ledge Attack: Get up and inject from its bottom part.

Grab: spawns Gem Rotator as a way to grab.
View attachment 349957
Grab Attack: Spawns Yellow Gem to hit someone from the top.

Front Throw: the Gem Rotator rotates someone to throw it front.
Back Throw: the Gem Rotator rotates someone to throw it back.
Up Throw: the Gem Rotator rotates someone to throw it up.
Down Throw: Spawns the Green Gem from the top to bury someone down.


Final Smash: Supernova Gem Explosion


So tell me what do you think?
That’s a really cool and creative moveset. I think I’ve only ever played Bejeweled once at a Chinese restaurant but this resonates really well. It would definitely be a very unique character.
 

HyperSomari64

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
2,977
Location
Lima, Peru
May i not be in the "Would You Rather...?" thread but this sounds interesting
I saw a few Neptune movesets. If she came to Smash and her Final Smash doesn't involve her goddess form for obvious reasons, should she do the Neptune Break, or turn into a jet that blows up Earth?
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,287
I do agree that there are a bunch of FE characters that could work with the Bowser Jr. idea, but I'd say they are all side characters and not the major ones who get the majority of the unique animations. Pegasus riders are a good example, and you could probably get myrmidons and knights to work pretty well.
Myrmidons can work well, due to Myrmidons being quite similar in stature and fighting style, not to mention their consistent popularity. Lyndis, Navarre, Ayra, Lon'qu, Marisa, Female Kris, etc. The only issues is that Lyndis would lose access to her Bow she could use and she would lose uniqueness in being restricted to only her sword, and that the characters chosen have to be pretty similar to each other in stature and body shape, so some of the more wilder character designs like Ryoma can't be used.

Knights probably won't work well. One being that their weapons tend to change throughout the games and the characters from those games end up with different weapons from each other, so it limits the characters being chosen since they have to be ones who can use the weapon that's chosen. Two, Knights tend to be very varied with their body-shapes and armor, so it can lead to alot of inconsistency with models. Three, Knights tend to not be popular, with Hector and Edelgard being the major outliers out of the characters who are Knights or Knight-like while the rest are very low down the lane.

Pegasus Riders are a case of, "What are they without their Pegasus?" and "How do you make a horse, especially a Pegasus, work for Smash Bros without it feeling very awkward?" Like Pegasus Knights are popular, but if they aren't going to have their Pegasus except for a couple attacks, they are probably much better represented being an Assist Trophy, or a Breidablik summon if the Breidablik becomes an item. Same with horse riders like Cavaliers, Paladins, etc and Wyvern Riders.

As for more like Marth/Roy/Chrom/Lucina, Eirika, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif and Alm can work. Celica is a case of, "You could, but should you?" since she also uses Magic and restricting her to being a Marth-clone would likely make even Fire Emblem fans unhappy. Eliwood starts out similarly to Marth and Co, but eventually he gets Durandal and looks more like he could be an Ike Echo rather than a Marth Echo. Really, the only ones who can't work as a Marth-clone are Hector, Ephraim, Micaiah, Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
I wouldn't mind seeing the Double Dragons and the Battletoads reunite in Smash.
That would be awesome. Their crossover game was my favorite from either franchise and the only one I’ve ever completed. The soundtrack to that game was so great too, especially the Dark Queen battle theme.


I feel like people need to hear this song (and the rest of the OST). You can’t tell me that wouldn’t be an awesome track to fight to in Smash. David Wise was such an amazing and under-appreciated composer.
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
Will someone do amoveset for the Dragon twins (Billy and Jimmy)
That could be fun but I’m not as familiar with Double Dragon as I am with the Battletoads so I’m probably not the best person to do it. I’ve played a few games from their main series on the NES as a kid as well as the fighting game on the SNES based on the cartoon but I honestly don’t remember a lot about how they play in those games. Most of my experience with Billy and Jimmy comes from Battletoads & Double Dragon, which I’ve beaten many times but played as the Battletoads most of the time. I did watch the cartoon and I saw the Double Dragon movie back in the day if that counts for anything.
 
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Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,967
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
That moveset you did Gengar really made me want the Battletoads even more, cause I couldn't envision their playstyle at all before, and now I can. And them being from a fighting game would allow for a easy translation to a Smash moveset, so now am fully behind the idea. I honestly can't think of a better fit for Microsoft owned characters that have this big of a legacy with Nintendo, only Crash would really make more sense to me.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
That moveset you did Gengar really made me want the Battletoads even more, cause I couldn't envision their playstyle at all before, and now I can. And them being from a fighting game would allow for a easy translation to a Smash moveset, so now am fully behind the idea. I honestly can't think of a better fit for Microsoft owned characters that have this big of a legacy with Nintendo, only Crash would really make more sense to me.
Thanks, I’m really glad I was able to show people why I feel like the Battletoads are such a great fit for Smash. I worked really hard on that moveset and have thought about the characters being in Smash for years so it really means a lot to see that you appreciated it.

Something I neglected to mention in that post that makes me want the Battletoads even more is that it was the first game that really kicked off RARE’s rise in popularity and eventual relationship with Nintendo. RARE made games before that that but they were mostly smaller games and nothing really gained huge mainstream appeal until the Battletoads. The Battletoads were such a huge success at the time that Nintendo took notice and eventually formed a partnership with RARE leading to amazing games like Donkey Kong Country. It’s crazy to think that without Battletoads, modern DK wouldn’t exist in his current form and Diddy, Dixie, K. Rool, and others wouldn’t exist at all.

Here’s a bit of trivia, did you know the artist that created the Battletoads is the same person that made every modern DK character from DKC? David Wise is also the composer for all Battletoads games other than the reboot as well as many songs in DKC 1 and the entirety of DKC 2 as well as Diddy Kong Racing.
 
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Reksew_Trebla

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 9, 2021
Messages
42
Anybody remember the SNES game "The Lost Vikings"? How would you feel about that trio getting into Smash? What about the monsters from the N64 game "Rampage: World Tour"?

Finally, how would you feel if Leeroy Jenkins, from World of Warcraft, got into Smash, complete with his original player doing the voice acting?
 

RodNutTakin

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
933
After some delay, I have finally finished both my Smash 6 prediction roster, and a little write-up for it as well!

Here is the image below. Echo fighters are stacked, and a purple background on a character indicates that they are DLC.



-Dark Samus, Daisy, Dark Pit, and Ken return from Ultimate.

-Richter has turned into being extra alts for Simon. Trevor from Castlevania III and Julius from Aria of Sorrow join him as further alts for Simon, and the entire slot is referred to as "Belmont" in a similar vein to the Hero.

-Funky Kong is added as a Donkey Kong echo. Functionally, Funky Kong retains most of DK's moveset, with two important differences; firstly, Funky trades some of DK's attack power in favor of being slightly faster than him, and secondly, whenever Funky is in midair, a surfboard (colored to match the player using him) materializes below him. While the surfboard is normally just a slightly extended hurtbox that deals less damage to Funky compared to hitting him directly, it affects three of his moves; his down air is no longer a spike, instead having him flip his surfboard below him. His neutral air and up special move differ from Donkey Kong's in a more important way, however; instead of Funky Kong spinning himself for these moves, he spins his surfboard instead, similar to his glide animation from Tropical Freeze. While this leaves Funky himself much more vulnerable for both moves, it becomes a good tool for using against opponents approaching from below, and the up special not only has more distance than DK's version, but the last hit of the surfboard from this move can spike players if caught in it. As a last note, if Funky uses his up special on the ground, he just spins himself on the ground like DK does, since there's no surfboard to spin on when grounded.

-Proto Man is added as a Mega Man echo. Proto Man is essentially a fully-realized version of the Custom Moves that Mega Man had in Smash 4, with some of his A moves being changed as well. In terms of special moves, Proto Man uses the "3" variants of Mega Man's special moves from Smash 4; Shadow Blade for the neutral special, Danger Wrap for the side special, Plant Barrier for the down special, and Beat for the up special. Other moveset replacements include (but aren't limited to) Water Wave replacing Flame Blast as a down smash, Solar Blaze replacing Spark Shot as an up smash, Gyro Attack replacing Air Shooter as an up aerial, Thunder Claw replacing Flame Sword as a forward aerial, and Laser Trident replacing Hard Knuckle as a down aerial. Finally, Proto Man would have his trademark shield, which can block projectiles while standing still, like with the Links and Hero.

-Rock Howard is added as a Terry echo. Rock shares a decent number of Terry's basic moves, but his Howard lineage and own personal mixups also provide some significant differences from Terry's playstyle; in terms of special moves, the Power Wave neutral special is replaced with the functionally-similar Reppuken, which becomes the Double Reppuken if held down. Power Dunk is replaced with Rage Run, which can either have Rock jump up and dunk downwards if tapped (Type "Dunk"), or instead have him sidestep past the opponent to catch them offguard (Type "Shift"). Rock dashes before doing either technique, so there is a tiny bit of startup lag involved in both moves. Burning Knuckle is replaced with the functionally-similar Hard Edge. Crack Shoot, however, is replaced with Crack Counter Jou-Dan; it is a slightly more powerful version of Terry's Crack Shoot, with the tradeoff being that Rock can only activate it if he is hit during the pose he makes when the move is inputted. Finally, Rising Tackle is unchanged from Terry's version of the move.
As for the special command input moves available when Rock reaches 100% or more, Power Geyser and Buster Wolf are replaced with Raging Storm (a technique inherited from Geese) and Shine Knuckle, respectively. For Rock's Final Smash, he uses the Neo Deadly Rave, another technique that Geese Howard has used as well.
I mainly chose Rock as a third new Echo because the fighting game representation in Smash really grew on me, and I thought it would be interesting to include an Echo Fighter who would very much highlight the "similar but different" nature that I feel more Echoes should be like.

Unlike the Echo Fighters section, I won't really go into potential mechanics for the newcomers, with maybe a couple of exceptions. Instead, I mainly intend to explain my reasoning for each of the inclusions I have made here; the same will apply to the DLC Fighters section. With that out of the way, let's begin with the base game newcomers.

-To start things off, we have the Octolings, specifically the protagonist versions first appearing in Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion DLC. Probably one of the safest guesses for Smash 6, though I decided to be a bit more interesting here by predicting that they will be an Isabelle-esque semi-clone to the Inklings instead of just being their Echo Fighter. They'd keep the same basic framework as the Inklings, including the whole Ink mechanic, but their weapon loadout for their moveset would be different in order to cover some of the bases that the Inkling moveset did not. Potential for a different moveset aside, considering that Splatoon has quickly made a name for itself and is already on its third installment, I feel it would be nonsensical for the Octolings to be an Echo while Isabelle remained her own character slot.

-At this point, I feel that the Zelda series needs some sort of significant shakeup, and adding Impa to its ranks while retiring Sheik feels significant enough. Although I'm not the most knowledgeable about Zelda as a series, I am aware of some of the recurring cast members throughout the franchise besides the Triforce wielders. Ultimately, it boiled down to either Impa or Tingle, and I chose Impa simply because the character has been around for longer, and because of the Hyrule Warriors sub-series giving us not just one, but two versions of her that I feel are fit for fighting; the Ocarina version of her as seen in the original Hyrule Warriors, and the version of her that appears in Age of Calamity. I feel that either of these versions of her could get in, though I chose the version featured in the original Warriors for the image out of convenience. Either way, Impa is undoubtedly an important recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and I felt it would make sense to have her replace Sheik, who was a one-off alter-ego character for Zelda that I feel only stayed around for so long in Smash's roster for legacy reasons.

-Alongside Impa is another addition to Zelda at the expense of another character, that being the Toy Link featured in the Link's Awakening remake replacing Toon Link. To a lot of you, this is probably a very controversial replacement, and that's because at this point, it still kind of is. This was the "interchangable character" I mentioned prior; I put Toy Link in as a prediction that a future Zelda title will reuse the art style the Awakening remake used. Specifically, I made this choice under the assumption that the Oracle games will get remade at some point in the forseeable future, thus using the toy diorama art style again. However, I cannot deny the possibility that the Link's Awakening remake was a one time thing regardless of how well it did, and if we don't see any meaningful return of its toy diorama style in the Zelda series when the next Smash comes around, then I very much plan to give Toon Link's place in the roster back and get rid of "Toy Link". In short, I feel that Toon and Toy Link are interchangable here currently, and if you prefer one over the other, you can assume that one is who gets in here.

==WARNING: METROID DREAD SPOILERS BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED, SCROLL PAST THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH.==

This next choice could be a case of counting ravens before they hatch, but I feel that Raven Beak is a worthy contender among Nintendo's first parties for Smash 6. While the character has only appeared in Samus Returns's ending and Metroid Dread, it's hard to overstate the impact on the entire Metroid saga that Raven Beak has left, from his extermination of the Thoha race being indirectly responsible for the events of nearly every Metroid title leading up to Dread, to him being one of the Chozo gene donors for Samus and thus being responsible for her enhanced combat prowess and instincts, a fact that Raven Beak taunts her with near the end of Dread. This aformentioned gene donation also means to me that Raven Beak would be an ideal Smash fighter--the way I see it, he would be the Ganondorf to Samus's Captain Falcon, and his X Parasite mutation at the end of Dread would make for the perfect Final Smash for him as well. Some people have mentioned the EMMI as a fighter from Dread, but I feel that they are too unorthodox compared to Raven Beak; Besides the fact that the EMMI are a group of robots instead of a single entity like the SA-X and Dark Samus before it, they also have various intentionally-overpowered aspects to them that would be impossible to translate well to Smash, between their nigh-destructible armor, their ability to traverse walls and ceilings freely, and especially the instant-kill needle jab that they do if they catch Samus. All in all, while I don't think Dread is automatically entitled to a representative, it is still a landmark game in Metroid's history critically and commercially, and Raven Beak has proven to be a break-out villain in his own right--I'd argue he's the most notable and important out of Metroid's one-shot antagonists.

==SPOILERS END HERE.==

We've reached the first of a good few placeholder slots, this one being a Pokemon from the upcoming Scarlet and Violet titles. At this point in time, I can't really make any proper guesses as to which Pokemon could make the cut since we only know about the initial starters, but if I had to make any sort of bet, I'd wager that Sprigatito's final evolution (whatever it looks like) will probably be the one picked, going off the last two Pokemon newcomers being the other two starter types. Other than that, not too much to say here for now.

This other placeholder here is a bit more of a risky guess, but I feel that at least one older Nintendo series will get a fresh breath of life here in Smash 6. As for the three characters I picked to represent this placeholder...
Andy is here because of the upcoming Advance Wars remake and because of Advance Wars being a popular Brawl-era request. If Reboot Camp proves to be a successful revival, then I could see one of its characters squeezing in as a last-minute addition.
Isaac is here due to being a longer-lasting first party request, and because of the notable glowup his Assist Trophy got when it returned for Ultimate. The only thing that makes Isaac uncertain here is because his series has been dormant since the DS era.
Starfy is admittedly a personal pick of mine, but having five games within the span of 6-7 years is honestly still an incredible feat if you ask me, even if only the last one came out worldwide. Unfortunately, due to Starfy's momentum stopping dead in its tracks with that fifth game, it's a hard sell unless his older games get remade in the near future, but even then, I have the strong feeling that Sakurai very much disagrees with the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" when it comes to characters who look like Kirby...
A honorable mention here is the Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character); this series is probably the most fit out of all the ones I've mentioned here, but being barred from Smash 4 and not even given the time of day for Ultimate (outside of Grinch) makes me question if they just can't find a satisfactory way to implement Rhythm Heaven into a Smash fighter.

Originally, I also had a placeholder for a "future Nintendo IP" on the roster, but remembering that Nintendo bought the rights to Astral Chain made me realize that Akira/Officer Howard has now become a strong contender for Smash 6. Smash isn't unfamiliar with Platinum-developed games thanks to Bayonetta's inclusion, and with the company's continued relationship with Nintendo, I imagine that Howard being included in Smash 6 would be a good relationship sweetener after Nintendo bought Astral Chain as an IP. I can't comment much more about this since I'm not too familiar with Astral Chain as a video game, other than that I also considered the Ring Fit protagonists as a recent Nintendo fighter, but I felt that Howard would bring much more to the table even if Ring Fit is popular in its own right, and also because I feel that they wouldn't want to replace the Wii Fit Trainer just yet.

The last of the first-party niches I needed to fill was the obligatory joke/retro character. I feel that after Piranha Plant's mixed reception, the next suprise character will go back to referencing Nintendo's legacy hardware. I decided that the Famicom Disk System would be a good target for this, and as a result I added Diskun to the roster. I envisioned this character's moveset as basically being Mr. Game & Watch's basic concept, applied to Nintendo games released on the Disk System. Luckily, since a lot of earlier Famicom titles were ported to the Disk System later on, this opens up more material for such a moveset. I didn't really write down any specific concepts, with the exception of an idea for a special grabbing mechanic; like with Donkey Kong, if Diskun grabs someone and taps forward or backward on the control stick, they'll start carrying the character over their head and are granted limited movement while the character is still in their grasp. Here, it would function like holding an item in Super Mario Bros. 2 (or should I say...Doki Doki Panic?), where Diskun can move left, move right, or jump like Mario/Imajin does in that game while holding an object. Pressing A makes Diskun toss the grabbed character at a downwards arc like how the player throws items in Mario 2/Doki Doki Panic, and the thrown character can potentially be knocked into another fighter for decent damage. Honestly, this may be a fighter I'll try and make a full moveset for in the future.

When it comes to third-party newcomers in Smash 6, for my money the biggest elephant in the room that needs to be addressed here is Bomberman from his eponymous series. I feel that Bomberman certainly got his foot in the door with Ultimate; his Assist Trophy is one of the more complex-functioning ones, said Assist got special highlight during Ultimate's E3 2018 presentation, and later on Bomberman got a full-body Mii Costume that even changed color depending on the Mii's preferred color. I can't help but feel that Sakurai wanted to have Bomberman playable at first, but putting in all of the content for Castlevania ended up taking major priority instead when it came to Ultimate's development. Even if Bomberman hasn't been too active outside of Super R and its Online mode, the series has a staggering legacy, with it being present on virtually every game platform that's been on the market since 1983, and the series being able to directly collaborate with one of Nintendo's properties (the US version of Bomberman GB that turned the game into a Wario crossover) is an impressive feat among third-party franchises. I can't help but feel that Bomberman will get his proper due in Smash 6.

Be warned as my bias could potentially be showing here with this next pick, but I have a gut feeling that Puyo Puyo's Arle Nadja will be the next character owned by Sega to get in Smash. When you look at Sega's current top franchises, while Sonic obviously takes the number 1 spot, Puyo Puyo is actually not too far behind, at least on the Japan side of things. And this is for good reason; ever since its 1991 inception, Puyo has been a frequent-flying series in its homeland, having made appearances on every major platform in some form except Nintendo's ill-fated Virtual Boy. The competitive arcade outings in the early 90s are what I feel started the whole competitive puzzle game craze in the first place; if you've ever played games in the past like Magical Drop, Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack, Panic Bomber, and Puzzle Fighter, chances are that they all owe their existence to Puyo Puyo kickstarting the trend of two-player head-to-head puzzle games, all the way back in 1992. Besides the legacy of the games themselves, the cast has also gotten some popularity in their own right, especially considering older mainstays like Arle and Carbuncle have appeared in the vast majority of the franchise's works, extending to the original dungeon-crawling Mado Monogatari series that Puyo spun off from. Even after Sega bought the rights to the series and introduced a new cast of characters in Puyo Puyo Fever, Arle and Carbuncle remained present in every title, and starting with the anniversary games, other classic Compile-era characters made their return as well. Even 30 years on, Arle and Carbuncle remain the de facto mascots and faces of this Japan-popular franchise, and ever since the series finally breached international waters with the 2017 rerelease of Puyo Puyo Tetris, Arle has started making a name for herself in Western communities as well, to the point where I'd argue that she was the one non-Sonic Sega character that popped up the most in Ultimate's speculation, to the point where, in an interview held during Ultimate's DLC cycle, the current Puyo series producer expressed interest in seeing Arle being included in a Smash title. To sum things up, between the series's popularity in its home country, its consistent presence on Nintendo platforms, and having a good amount of presence in Smash speculation, I feel that Arle is prime for a spot in Smash 6.

Capcom was certainly not shy about pouring on content in Smash Ultimate, and it's an easy assumption that it will be the same case for Smash 6. Since Street Fighter got its turn at a new character in Ultimate, I think Mega Man will get its share next installment. And among Mega Man's cast, I feel that Zero from the Mega Man X subseries is the prime candidate for inclusion. Zero is undoubtedly a popular character in his own right, both with fans and within Capcom as well, having gotten his own line of subseries, being revived repeatedly in the X series out of popular demand, and even having been slated to be X himself at one point in X1's development. You could probably make a good argument that Zero is more popular than the Blue Bomber himself, or at least much more popular than X. Besides Zero's popularity, there's also the case of his Assist Trophy in Ultimate, being one of the Assists that's the closest to being a full fighter in functionality (likely owing to his aforementioned popularity). Turning Zero from an Assist Trophy to a full fighter would be an easy crowd pleaser for Smash 6, and would also open the opportunity for one of Mega Man's most important subseries to get proper representation next time around. Some people may question me putting him over X, but as Kazuya and the Aegis Blades have demonstrated, just because Zero isn't the titular Mega Man X, doesn't mean that he isn't a main character in that series anyway.

SNK was very generous with content when it came to Terry Bogard's DLC, and I imagine that as with Capcom, they'll be more than cooperative during Smash 6's development. Iori Yagami is almost a same-song-and-dance ordeal as with Zero; an incredibly popular character within his own series, and popular in his own right as an SNK icon despite not being the initial main protagonist of his series. Though what gave him the edge over Kyo for me, was Sakurai's comments about him during his Terry presentation, stating that he considered him his favorite character within the King of Fighters series. To me, that comment pretty much means "If I get to add someone from The King of Fighters proper, he's getting in without a second thought about it." Considering that Terry already got the lion's share of SNK content in Ultimate, however, I feel that Smash 6's base game is the only real opportunity for Iori to be added, since it'd be hard to justify a second SNK fighter being in a Challenger Pack if Terry retains most or all of his content in the next game.

The last of the base game third-parties is someone I consider to be another elephant in the room that materialized thanks to the Ultimate speculation community; the character in question being Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa. Hayabusa is certainly a bandwagon pick in origin--the fake 5chan leak that circulated at the beginning of 2019 is what put Hayabusa on the mind of a lot of speculators, especially since the leak would take a good six or so months to be hard deconfirmed thanks to Banjo's inclusion and the presence of multiple Heroes besides Erdrick. However, despite the 5chan leak fading away, Ryu Hayabusa continued to be a common name anyway, partially thanks to also being in a "Google leak" that also lasted a while before getting shot down, and more importantly, because of rampant rumors indicating that Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo would collaborate in some form regarding Smash (this turned out to be Byleth from the KT-developed Three Houses getting in, along with Hyrule Warriors spirits getting added later on). Hayabusa remained a frequent name in speculation, and while most of this was due to vague rumors and bogus leaks getting spread around, I feel that any kind of publicity for a character is good publicity when it comes to Smash. However, what cinches it for me is Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo's aforementioned relationship; the company not only managed to help develop a mainline Fire Emblem title, but is also working on its fourth Warriors crossover game (sixth if you consider the 3DS and Switch versions of Hyrule Warriors to be their own games) with Nintendo. Add this onto Ryu's decently-healthy presence on Nintendo platforms; he got his start with a trilogy of NES games, got a Game Boy title, a SNES compilation, a DS game, an appearance on the 3DS thanks to Dead or Alive Dimensions (which featured a Metroid crossover stage!), and now a Switch compilation of the "reboot" Ninja Gaiden trilogy. These three elements are what I feel to be the perfect storm for Ryu Hayabusa to be the Simon Belmont of Smash 6's newcomers.

Since I imagine that Smash 6 will go with Smash 4's mentality of "Bring back as many characters as possible without going out of our way to do so either", it's logical to assume that a couple of fan favorites will have to be excluded from the base game. I can see Wolf returning as DLC, not unlike what happened to Mewtwo in Smash 4. A lesser example here would be Greninja. While Greninja is certainly a popular Pokemon if official ranking polls are to be believed, Pokemon X and Y will be over a decade old by the time Smash 6 comes around, and I think it'll be hard to justify keeping Greninja as a base game character. However, I feel that it will still be just popular enough to come back as DLC, being a Pokemon character and all.

There are two characters that I would like to have return in the base game, but I feel that removing "Everyone is Here" will inevitably send these characters into the DLC realm, both for the same reason. Sephiroth and Sora were two of the biggest bombshell reveals during Ultimate's DLC cycle, and knowing Square-Enix and Disney, they won't have the characters completely cut in the next Smash (assuming Nintendo doesn't royally piss off either of them), but they'll probably hold them hostage as DLC again, and probably for a bit of a higher price compared to 1st party veteran DLC. The companies know that they got a lot of heads to turn when these characters got added to Smash, and if they aren't obliged to conform to the "everyone returns" gimmick this time around, they'll jump on the opportunity to capitalize on these two fighters again. Though I'll say this: If Sora is somehow a base game character in the next Smash, I will watch an entire summary of Kingdom Hearts's plot, mark my words.

Now we're moving onto the DLC newcomers proper here. When you look at Smash's current roster, one of the biggest uncomfortable truths begins to stick out; despite being the only third-party character with a perfect attendance so far, Sonic has gone three games without having a second character, and it'd look pretty ugly if he goes a fourth game solo as well. I've come to the conclusion that the prime candidate for the second Sonic character is none other than Dr. Eggman. Sure, Shadow and Knuckles would be easier to develop, but out of all of Sonic's rivals and adversaries, I feel that his most common enemy and main antagonist of the series deserves the spot over anyone else. Besides being nearly omnipresent in the series, Eggman's popularity within the Sonic fandom has been consistently high throughout the series's history, to the point where I'd argue that he's been more consistently popular than Sonic himself (let alone his other friends) within the fandom at large. However, I imagine that Eggman would be one of the more complex characters to make, and as a result, I think he is best suited as a DLC fighter.

It's a no-brainer to assume that some of the DLC for Smash 6 will be first-party newcomers, and it's also a no-brainer to assume that Xenoblade 3 will get representation in Smash 6. That's why it was very easy for me to put Noah on the roster. However, as with the case of Pyra and Mythra in Ultimate, I imagine that Xenoblade 3 is going to miss the bus for any significant base game representation, and will have to wait for DLC to get anything meaningful here. If any interviews about Smash 6's base game express disappointment that they couldn't get Xenoblade 3 content in there, then I'd consider that to be a very good sign for their chances as DLC.

During Kazuya's presentation, Sakurai noted that the Mii Costumes revealed in Kazuya's wave were characters that "a lot of people have been wanting...as standalone fighters". Among the four characters shown as costumes during the presentation, I felt that Dante had the most going for him, being a popular Capcom request that persisted for most of Ultimate's speculation cycle. While him being from an M-rated series is a bit of a hurdle, I feel that most of Dante's competition has even bigger hoops to jump through; Resident Evil couldn't get a costume and is arguably more mature in content than DMC, Monster Hunter has the problem of the devteam not liking to use the Hunters in crossovers, and while Phoenix Wright could get that "turnabout" victory if Ace Attorney 7 really is on the horizon, I still feel he may be a hard sell. Between being a popular request that got acknowledged by the devs and having an edge over most of his Capcom peers via process of elimination, I feel that Dante has a good shot at Smash 6's DLC.

Over the course of Ultimate's DLC, Nintendo managed to work their way down the Square-Enix food chain of popular character requests, adding Dragon Quest representation, a second FF7 character, and Kingdom Hearts's Sora. At this point, the one remaining Square character that stands out to me as missing from Smash, is Crono from Chrono Trigger. Sure, Chrono Trigger isn't some mega-hit series like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, but to me, it doesn't matter that much when Chrono Trigger as a game is arguably one of the most popular one-off JRPGs ever (I am aware that Chrono Cross exists, but it's largely disconnected from Trigger and is rather obscure in comparison). This achievement is particularly notable since the game was a mid-90s release, during the height of JRPGs coming out left and right, especially in their home country. While I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of Chrono Trigger as a game, I have seen how it has touched the hearts of a lot of people who've played it, and the fact that people still constantly discuss the game decades after its release says a lot, especially in comparison to the latest Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games getting left behind whenever a newer installment comes out. To me, Crono is the Banjo-Kazooie of RPG characters; they aren't the most relevant in today's gaming climate, but their games are undeniably interwoven in both Nintendo culture, and classic gaming culture as a whole.

I've seen some hot debate here about the inclusion of Doomguy in Smash 6. As you can see, I'm personally pro-Doomguy myself, and it's for a similar set of reasons as to why I'm pro-Hayabusa. Doomguy was the center of speculation for a long time thanks to leaks and rumors propping him up, and the momentum for the character only continued with every mainline Doom title getting ported to the Switch, along with Doom Eternal hype being in full swing both before and after its early 2020 release. In fact, unlike Hayabusa, Doomguy's demand was notable enough to warrant a special Mii Costume in Sora's presentation, which I feel is a sign of the seeds being planted for a future inclusion in Smash 6. Some have argued that Doom's FPS nature makes it a hard sell for Smash, but I argue that the fantastical nature of some of the weapons makes it not an impossibility, along with the fact that there are a decent number of close-combat options in the series that I feel can quell the fears of Doomguy being nothing but a toxic projectile camper. As for the ultraviolence concerns, I wholeheartedly believe that they can convey Doomguy's brutality without needing a ratings bump--just look at how Ridley is portrayed, especially considering one of his moves is him clearly skewering opponents with his sharp tail. Some have pointed to putting Master Chief over Doomguy, but if Banjo and Steve have taught me anything, the more likely scenario is that both characters would get in. Microsoft has proven to be both very buddy-buddy with Nintendo, and very receptive to fan demand, so I imagine that Doomguy is in very good hands here.

Up next are the last few placeholder slots I put on here. I can pretty much kill two birds with one stone by talking about both the Fire Emblem character and Atlus character placeholders here. For the former, Sakurai has gone on record saying that he's reserved slots for both Pokemon and Fire Emblem in each game so far, and I imagine that Smash 6 will be no different. Of course, I feel that the inevitable Fire Emblem character will be DLC again, considering we haven't seen anything about what the next mainline FE will be like (and we probably won't for quite some time), compared to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet already being shown and slated for this year.
As for the Atlus placeholder, I imagine that Atlus will want to cycle out Joker in favor of the protagonist from whatever future game they'll be promoting at that time, whether that be Persona 6 or some other project of theirs. Though admittedly, I have the nagging feeling that I can't rule out the possibility of Atlus wanting to stretch out Persona 5 as long as humanly possible, either.

The final placeholder here is a second Microsoft DLC character. As I mentioned above, Microsoft has been very generous with Nintendo in terms of what they've added to Ultimate, so I imagine it isn't too farfetched to see them put in two more DLC characters in Smash 6. The thing is, however, is that once Microsoft finalizes their buyout of ActiBlizz, they'll have two big console mascot names under their belt: Master Chief, and Crash Bandicoot. There are cases to be made about both; the former is Microsoft's biggest name, and one of the biggest names in FPS gaming to boot. The latter was PlayStation's unofficial mascot, and was a big name in Ultimate speculation even to the bitter end. It's really tough to say which one of them would be more likely to get in, if either of them even had the chance. The former has to potentially share space with Doomguy when it comes to Microsoft-owned potential Smash inclusions, while the latter was owned by a company that got in a lot of hot water over the past year, to the point where Nintendo (among other companies) released a PR message about it, and I imagine that Microsoft will flush out Activision's employees once they finalize their purchase of the company. If anything advantageous comes out for either of these characters, I'll probably update my prediction to reflect it, but for now I consider this situation to be a complete toss-up.

For the last DLC character, I pondered to myself this: "What would be a character that would both be a perfect note to close out the next Smash game on, and would be relevant by the time we reach that point (which is probably 5-6 years from now)?" Surprisingly, the potential answer came to me quickly.
Toby Fox is probably one of the few non-Nintendo alumni that has managed to get really close with Sakurai and Nintendo as a whole, and I suspect that he owes a lot of this to being inspired by a lot of Nintendo's own games when making his own content. As a result, it's no surprise that Undertale managed to resonate with a lot of people worldwide who had a similar gaming history as Toby, and it's even less of a surprise that Deltarune has kept up that momentum afterwards. Toby Fox is clearly good friends with a lot of other game devs, including Nintendo's staff and Sakurai, and I feel that as a result, Sakurai would be more than willing to add Kris from Deltarune in the next Smash to honor Toby's passion projects.
However, I feel there is one important condition here. As of this writing, Deltarune only has two out of a visible seven chapters complete. It's an episodic RPG game. And because of this, I feel that neither Sakurai nor Toby Fox will actually want to put Deltarune content in Smash until the game is complete, or VERY close to completion (as in "Sakurai can put in content that teases the last chapter(s) of the game because the character releases like a couple of weeks beforehand" very close). To put it simply, I think Kris has a likely chance at being the very last (if not one of the very last) DLC character in Smash 6, due to the circumstances revolving around his game and developer. I'd be at the very least shocked if absolutely nothing from the game gets added, to be honest.

Please let me know what you think about my choices and reasoning here. I look forward to your thoughts and critique.
 

Wonder Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
1,916
Will someone do amoveset for the Dragon twins (Billy and Jimmy)
X_Double_Dragon_Smash.png

This is basically the same idea I have for their moveset.

The only difference is the Down Special. I say something like the Gleam ability from Neon, where after a dodge, the player can follow up with three different attacks (flying knee, back elbow, or a powerful uppercut).
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
After some delay, I have finally finished both my Smash 6 prediction roster, and a little write-up for it as well!

Here is the image below. Echo fighters are stacked, and a purple background on a character indicates that they are DLC.



-Dark Samus, Daisy, Dark Pit, and Ken return from Ultimate.

-Richter has turned into being extra alts for Simon. Trevor from Castlevania III and Julius from Aria of Sorrow join him as further alts for Simon, and the entire slot is referred to as "Belmont" in a similar vein to the Hero.

-Funky Kong is added as a Donkey Kong echo. Functionally, Funky Kong retains most of DK's moveset, with two important differences; firstly, Funky trades some of DK's attack power in favor of being slightly faster than him, and secondly, whenever Funky is in midair, a surfboard (colored to match the player using him) materializes below him. While the surfboard is normally just a slightly extended hurtbox that deals less damage to Funky compared to hitting him directly, it affects three of his moves; his down air is no longer a spike, instead having him flip his surfboard below him. His neutral air and up special move differ from Donkey Kong's in a more important way, however; instead of Funky Kong spinning himself for these moves, he spins his surfboard instead, similar to his glide animation from Tropical Freeze. While this leaves Funky himself much more vulnerable for both moves, it becomes a good tool for using against opponents approaching from below, and the up special not only has more distance than DK's version, but the last hit of the surfboard from this move can spike players if caught in it. As a last note, if Funky uses his up special on the ground, he just spins himself on the ground like DK does, since there's no surfboard to spin on when grounded.

-Proto Man is added as a Mega Man echo. Proto Man is essentially a fully-realized version of the Custom Moves that Mega Man had in Smash 4, with some of his A moves being changed as well. In terms of special moves, Proto Man uses the "3" variants of Mega Man's special moves from Smash 4; Shadow Blade for the neutral special, Danger Wrap for the side special, Plant Barrier for the down special, and Beat for the up special. Other moveset replacements include (but aren't limited to) Water Wave replacing Flame Blast as a down smash, Solar Blaze replacing Spark Shot as an up smash, Gyro Attack replacing Air Shooter as an up aerial, Thunder Claw replacing Flame Sword as a forward aerial, and Laser Trident replacing Hard Knuckle as a down aerial. Finally, Proto Man would have his trademark shield, which can block projectiles while standing still, like with the Links and Hero.

-Rock Howard is added as a Terry echo. Rock shares a decent number of Terry's basic moves, but his Howard lineage and own personal mixups also provide some significant differences from Terry's playstyle; in terms of special moves, the Power Wave neutral special is replaced with the functionally-similar Reppuken, which becomes the Double Reppuken if held down. Power Dunk is replaced with Rage Run, which can either have Rock jump up and dunk downwards if tapped (Type "Dunk"), or instead have him sidestep past the opponent to catch them offguard (Type "Shift"). Rock dashes before doing either technique, so there is a tiny bit of startup lag involved in both moves. Burning Knuckle is replaced with the functionally-similar Hard Edge. Crack Shoot, however, is replaced with Crack Counter Jou-Dan; it is a slightly more powerful version of Terry's Crack Shoot, with the tradeoff being that Rock can only activate it if he is hit during the pose he makes when the move is inputted. Finally, Rising Tackle is unchanged from Terry's version of the move.
As for the special command input moves available when Rock reaches 100% or more, Power Geyser and Buster Wolf are replaced with Raging Storm (a technique inherited from Geese) and Shine Knuckle, respectively. For Rock's Final Smash, he uses the Neo Deadly Rave, another technique that Geese Howard has used as well.
I mainly chose Rock as a third new Echo because the fighting game representation in Smash really grew on me, and I thought it would be interesting to include an Echo Fighter who would very much highlight the "similar but different" nature that I feel more Echoes should be like.

Unlike the Echo Fighters section, I won't really go into potential mechanics for the newcomers, with maybe a couple of exceptions. Instead, I mainly intend to explain my reasoning for each of the inclusions I have made here; the same will apply to the DLC Fighters section. With that out of the way, let's begin with the base game newcomers.

-To start things off, we have the Octolings, specifically the protagonist versions first appearing in Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion DLC. Probably one of the safest guesses for Smash 6, though I decided to be a bit more interesting here by predicting that they will be an Isabelle-esque semi-clone to the Inklings instead of just being their Echo Fighter. They'd keep the same basic framework as the Inklings, including the whole Ink mechanic, but their weapon loadout for their moveset would be different in order to cover some of the bases that the Inkling moveset did not. Potential for a different moveset aside, considering that Splatoon has quickly made a name for itself and is already on its third installment, I feel it would be nonsensical for the Octolings to be an Echo while Isabelle remained her own character slot.

-At this point, I feel that the Zelda series needs some sort of significant shakeup, and adding Impa to its ranks while retiring Sheik feels significant enough. Although I'm not the most knowledgeable about Zelda as a series, I am aware of some of the recurring cast members throughout the franchise besides the Triforce wielders. Ultimately, it boiled down to either Impa or Tingle, and I chose Impa simply because the character has been around for longer, and because of the Hyrule Warriors sub-series giving us not just one, but two versions of her that I feel are fit for fighting; the Ocarina version of her as seen in the original Hyrule Warriors, and the version of her that appears in Age of Calamity. I feel that either of these versions of her could get in, though I chose the version featured in the original Warriors for the image out of convenience. Either way, Impa is undoubtedly an important recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and I felt it would make sense to have her replace Sheik, who was a one-off alter-ego character for Zelda that I feel only stayed around for so long in Smash's roster for legacy reasons.

-Alongside Impa is another addition to Zelda at the expense of another character, that being the Toy Link featured in the Link's Awakening remake replacing Toon Link. To a lot of you, this is probably a very controversial replacement, and that's because at this point, it still kind of is. This was the "interchangable character" I mentioned prior; I put Toy Link in as a prediction that a future Zelda title will reuse the art style the Awakening remake used. Specifically, I made this choice under the assumption that the Oracle games will get remade at some point in the forseeable future, thus using the toy diorama art style again. However, I cannot deny the possibility that the Link's Awakening remake was a one time thing regardless of how well it did, and if we don't see any meaningful return of its toy diorama style in the Zelda series when the next Smash comes around, then I very much plan to give Toon Link's place in the roster back and get rid of "Toy Link". In short, I feel that Toon and Toy Link are interchangable here currently, and if you prefer one over the other, you can assume that one is who gets in here.

==WARNING: METROID DREAD SPOILERS BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED, SCROLL PAST THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH.==

This next choice could be a case of counting ravens before they hatch, but I feel that Raven Beak is a worthy contender among Nintendo's first parties for Smash 6. While the character has only appeared in Samus Returns's ending and Metroid Dread, it's hard to overstate the impact on the entire Metroid saga that Raven Beak has left, from his extermination of the Thoha race being indirectly responsible for the events of nearly every Metroid title leading up to Dread, to him being one of the Chozo gene donors for Samus and thus being responsible for her enhanced combat prowess and instincts, a fact that Raven Beak taunts her with near the end of Dread. This aformentioned gene donation also means to me that Raven Beak would be an ideal Smash fighter--the way I see it, he would be the Ganondorf to Samus's Captain Falcon, and his X Parasite mutation at the end of Dread would make for the perfect Final Smash for him as well. Some people have mentioned the EMMI as a fighter from Dread, but I feel that they are too unorthodox compared to Raven Beak; Besides the fact that the EMMI are a group of robots instead of a single entity like the SA-X and Dark Samus before it, they also have various intentionally-overpowered aspects to them that would be impossible to translate well to Smash, between their nigh-destructible armor, their ability to traverse walls and ceilings freely, and especially the instant-kill needle jab that they do if they catch Samus. All in all, while I don't think Dread is automatically entitled to a representative, it is still a landmark game in Metroid's history critically and commercially, and Raven Beak has proven to be a break-out villain in his own right--I'd argue he's the most notable and important out of Metroid's one-shot antagonists.

==SPOILERS END HERE.==

We've reached the first of a good few placeholder slots, this one being a Pokemon from the upcoming Scarlet and Violet titles. At this point in time, I can't really make any proper guesses as to which Pokemon could make the cut since we only know about the initial starters, but if I had to make any sort of bet, I'd wager that Sprigatito's final evolution (whatever it looks like) will probably be the one picked, going off the last two Pokemon newcomers being the other two starter types. Other than that, not too much to say here for now.

This other placeholder here is a bit more of a risky guess, but I feel that at least one older Nintendo series will get a fresh breath of life here in Smash 6. As for the three characters I picked to represent this placeholder...
Andy is here because of the upcoming Advance Wars remake and because of Advance Wars being a popular Brawl-era request. If Reboot Camp proves to be a successful revival, then I could see one of its characters squeezing in as a last-minute addition.
Isaac is here due to being a longer-lasting first party request, and because of the notable glowup his Assist Trophy got when it returned for Ultimate. The only thing that makes Isaac uncertain here is because his series has been dormant since the DS era.
Starfy is admittedly a personal pick of mine, but having five games within the span of 6-7 years is honestly still an incredible feat if you ask me, even if only the last one came out worldwide. Unfortunately, due to Starfy's momentum stopping dead in its tracks with that fifth game, it's a hard sell unless his older games get remade in the near future, but even then, I have the strong feeling that Sakurai very much disagrees with the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" when it comes to characters who look like Kirby...
A honorable mention here is the Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character); this series is probably the most fit out of all the ones I've mentioned here, but being barred from Smash 4 and not even given the time of day for Ultimate (outside of Grinch) makes me question if they just can't find a satisfactory way to implement Rhythm Heaven into a Smash fighter.

Originally, I also had a placeholder for a "future Nintendo IP" on the roster, but remembering that Nintendo bought the rights to Astral Chain made me realize that Akira/Officer Howard has now become a strong contender for Smash 6. Smash isn't unfamiliar with Platinum-developed games thanks to Bayonetta's inclusion, and with the company's continued relationship with Nintendo, I imagine that Howard being included in Smash 6 would be a good relationship sweetener after Nintendo bought Astral Chain as an IP. I can't comment much more about this since I'm not too familiar with Astral Chain as a video game, other than that I also considered the Ring Fit protagonists as a recent Nintendo fighter, but I felt that Howard would bring much more to the table even if Ring Fit is popular in its own right, and also because I feel that they wouldn't want to replace the Wii Fit Trainer just yet.

The last of the first-party niches I needed to fill was the obligatory joke/retro character. I feel that after Piranha Plant's mixed reception, the next suprise character will go back to referencing Nintendo's legacy hardware. I decided that the Famicom Disk System would be a good target for this, and as a result I added Diskun to the roster. I envisioned this character's moveset as basically being Mr. Game & Watch's basic concept, applied to Nintendo games released on the Disk System. Luckily, since a lot of earlier Famicom titles were ported to the Disk System later on, this opens up more material for such a moveset. I didn't really write down any specific concepts, with the exception of an idea for a special grabbing mechanic; like with Donkey Kong, if Diskun grabs someone and taps forward or backward on the control stick, they'll start carrying the character over their head and are granted limited movement while the character is still in their grasp. Here, it would function like holding an item in Super Mario Bros. 2 (or should I say...Doki Doki Panic?), where Diskun can move left, move right, or jump like Mario/Imajin does in that game while holding an object. Pressing A makes Diskun toss the grabbed character at a downwards arc like how the player throws items in Mario 2/Doki Doki Panic, and the thrown character can potentially be knocked into another fighter for decent damage. Honestly, this may be a fighter I'll try and make a full moveset for in the future.

When it comes to third-party newcomers in Smash 6, for my money the biggest elephant in the room that needs to be addressed here is Bomberman from his eponymous series. I feel that Bomberman certainly got his foot in the door with Ultimate; his Assist Trophy is one of the more complex-functioning ones, said Assist got special highlight during Ultimate's E3 2018 presentation, and later on Bomberman got a full-body Mii Costume that even changed color depending on the Mii's preferred color. I can't help but feel that Sakurai wanted to have Bomberman playable at first, but putting in all of the content for Castlevania ended up taking major priority instead when it came to Ultimate's development. Even if Bomberman hasn't been too active outside of Super R and its Online mode, the series has a staggering legacy, with it being present on virtually every game platform that's been on the market since 1983, and the series being able to directly collaborate with one of Nintendo's properties (the US version of Bomberman GB that turned the game into a Wario crossover) is an impressive feat among third-party franchises. I can't help but feel that Bomberman will get his proper due in Smash 6.

Be warned as my bias could potentially be showing here with this next pick, but I have a gut feeling that Puyo Puyo's Arle Nadja will be the next character owned by Sega to get in Smash. When you look at Sega's current top franchises, while Sonic obviously takes the number 1 spot, Puyo Puyo is actually not too far behind, at least on the Japan side of things. And this is for good reason; ever since its 1991 inception, Puyo has been a frequent-flying series in its homeland, having made appearances on every major platform in some form except Nintendo's ill-fated Virtual Boy. The competitive arcade outings in the early 90s are what I feel started the whole competitive puzzle game craze in the first place; if you've ever played games in the past like Magical Drop, Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack, Panic Bomber, and Puzzle Fighter, chances are that they all owe their existence to Puyo Puyo kickstarting the trend of two-player head-to-head puzzle games, all the way back in 1992. Besides the legacy of the games themselves, the cast has also gotten some popularity in their own right, especially considering older mainstays like Arle and Carbuncle have appeared in the vast majority of the franchise's works, extending to the original dungeon-crawling Mado Monogatari series that Puyo spun off from. Even after Sega bought the rights to the series and introduced a new cast of characters in Puyo Puyo Fever, Arle and Carbuncle remained present in every title, and starting with the anniversary games, other classic Compile-era characters made their return as well. Even 30 years on, Arle and Carbuncle remain the de facto mascots and faces of this Japan-popular franchise, and ever since the series finally breached international waters with the 2017 rerelease of Puyo Puyo Tetris, Arle has started making a name for herself in Western communities as well, to the point where I'd argue that she was the one non-Sonic Sega character that popped up the most in Ultimate's speculation, to the point where, in an interview held during Ultimate's DLC cycle, the current Puyo series producer expressed interest in seeing Arle being included in a Smash title. To sum things up, between the series's popularity in its home country, its consistent presence on Nintendo platforms, and having a good amount of presence in Smash speculation, I feel that Arle is prime for a spot in Smash 6.

Capcom was certainly not shy about pouring on content in Smash Ultimate, and it's an easy assumption that it will be the same case for Smash 6. Since Street Fighter got its turn at a new character in Ultimate, I think Mega Man will get its share next installment. And among Mega Man's cast, I feel that Zero from the Mega Man X subseries is the prime candidate for inclusion. Zero is undoubtedly a popular character in his own right, both with fans and within Capcom as well, having gotten his own line of subseries, being revived repeatedly in the X series out of popular demand, and even having been slated to be X himself at one point in X1's development. You could probably make a good argument that Zero is more popular than the Blue Bomber himself, or at least much more popular than X. Besides Zero's popularity, there's also the case of his Assist Trophy in Ultimate, being one of the Assists that's the closest to being a full fighter in functionality (likely owing to his aforementioned popularity). Turning Zero from an Assist Trophy to a full fighter would be an easy crowd pleaser for Smash 6, and would also open the opportunity for one of Mega Man's most important subseries to get proper representation next time around. Some people may question me putting him over X, but as Kazuya and the Aegis Blades have demonstrated, just because Zero isn't the titular Mega Man X, doesn't mean that he isn't a main character in that series anyway.

SNK was very generous with content when it came to Terry Bogard's DLC, and I imagine that as with Capcom, they'll be more than cooperative during Smash 6's development. Iori Yagami is almost a same-song-and-dance ordeal as with Zero; an incredibly popular character within his own series, and popular in his own right as an SNK icon despite not being the initial main protagonist of his series. Though what gave him the edge over Kyo for me, was Sakurai's comments about him during his Terry presentation, stating that he considered him his favorite character within the King of Fighters series. To me, that comment pretty much means "If I get to add someone from The King of Fighters proper, he's getting in without a second thought about it." Considering that Terry already got the lion's share of SNK content in Ultimate, however, I feel that Smash 6's base game is the only real opportunity for Iori to be added, since it'd be hard to justify a second SNK fighter being in a Challenger Pack if Terry retains most or all of his content in the next game.

The last of the base game third-parties is someone I consider to be another elephant in the room that materialized thanks to the Ultimate speculation community; the character in question being Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa. Hayabusa is certainly a bandwagon pick in origin--the fake 5chan leak that circulated at the beginning of 2019 is what put Hayabusa on the mind of a lot of speculators, especially since the leak would take a good six or so months to be hard deconfirmed thanks to Banjo's inclusion and the presence of multiple Heroes besides Erdrick. However, despite the 5chan leak fading away, Ryu Hayabusa continued to be a common name anyway, partially thanks to also being in a "Google leak" that also lasted a while before getting shot down, and more importantly, because of rampant rumors indicating that Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo would collaborate in some form regarding Smash (this turned out to be Byleth from the KT-developed Three Houses getting in, along with Hyrule Warriors spirits getting added later on). Hayabusa remained a frequent name in speculation, and while most of this was due to vague rumors and bogus leaks getting spread around, I feel that any kind of publicity for a character is good publicity when it comes to Smash. However, what cinches it for me is Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo's aforementioned relationship; the company not only managed to help develop a mainline Fire Emblem title, but is also working on its fourth Warriors crossover game (sixth if you consider the 3DS and Switch versions of Hyrule Warriors to be their own games) with Nintendo. Add this onto Ryu's decently-healthy presence on Nintendo platforms; he got his start with a trilogy of NES games, got a Game Boy title, a SNES compilation, a DS game, an appearance on the 3DS thanks to Dead or Alive Dimensions (which featured a Metroid crossover stage!), and now a Switch compilation of the "reboot" Ninja Gaiden trilogy. These three elements are what I feel to be the perfect storm for Ryu Hayabusa to be the Simon Belmont of Smash 6's newcomers.

Since I imagine that Smash 6 will go with Smash 4's mentality of "Bring back as many characters as possible without going out of our way to do so either", it's logical to assume that a couple of fan favorites will have to be excluded from the base game. I can see Wolf returning as DLC, not unlike what happened to Mewtwo in Smash 4. A lesser example here would be Greninja. While Greninja is certainly a popular Pokemon if official ranking polls are to be believed, Pokemon X and Y will be over a decade old by the time Smash 6 comes around, and I think it'll be hard to justify keeping Greninja as a base game character. However, I feel that it will still be just popular enough to come back as DLC, being a Pokemon character and all.

There are two characters that I would like to have return in the base game, but I feel that removing "Everyone is Here" will inevitably send these characters into the DLC realm, both for the same reason. Sephiroth and Sora were two of the biggest bombshell reveals during Ultimate's DLC cycle, and knowing Square-Enix and Disney, they won't have the characters completely cut in the next Smash (assuming Nintendo doesn't royally piss off either of them), but they'll probably hold them hostage as DLC again, and probably for a bit of a higher price compared to 1st party veteran DLC. The companies know that they got a lot of heads to turn when these characters got added to Smash, and if they aren't obliged to conform to the "everyone returns" gimmick this time around, they'll jump on the opportunity to capitalize on these two fighters again. Though I'll say this: If Sora is somehow a base game character in the next Smash, I will watch an entire summary of Kingdom Hearts's plot, mark my words.

Now we're moving onto the DLC newcomers proper here. When you look at Smash's current roster, one of the biggest uncomfortable truths begins to stick out; despite being the only third-party character with a perfect attendance so far, Sonic has gone three games without having a second character, and it'd look pretty ugly if he goes a fourth game solo as well. I've come to the conclusion that the prime candidate for the second Sonic character is none other than Dr. Eggman. Sure, Shadow and Knuckles would be easier to develop, but out of all of Sonic's rivals and adversaries, I feel that his most common enemy and main antagonist of the series deserves the spot over anyone else. Besides being nearly omnipresent in the series, Eggman's popularity within the Sonic fandom has been consistently high throughout the series's history, to the point where I'd argue that he's been more consistently popular than Sonic himself (let alone his other friends) within the fandom at large. However, I imagine that Eggman would be one of the more complex characters to make, and as a result, I think he is best suited as a DLC fighter.

It's a no-brainer to assume that some of the DLC for Smash 6 will be first-party newcomers, and it's also a no-brainer to assume that Xenoblade 3 will get representation in Smash 6. That's why it was very easy for me to put Noah on the roster. However, as with the case of Pyra and Mythra in Ultimate, I imagine that Xenoblade 3 is going to miss the bus for any significant base game representation, and will have to wait for DLC to get anything meaningful here. If any interviews about Smash 6's base game express disappointment that they couldn't get Xenoblade 3 content in there, then I'd consider that to be a very good sign for their chances as DLC.

During Kazuya's presentation, Sakurai noted that the Mii Costumes revealed in Kazuya's wave were characters that "a lot of people have been wanting...as standalone fighters". Among the four characters shown as costumes during the presentation, I felt that Dante had the most going for him, being a popular Capcom request that persisted for most of Ultimate's speculation cycle. While him being from an M-rated series is a bit of a hurdle, I feel that most of Dante's competition has even bigger hoops to jump through; Resident Evil couldn't get a costume and is arguably more mature in content than DMC, Monster Hunter has the problem of the devteam not liking to use the Hunters in crossovers, and while Phoenix Wright could get that "turnabout" victory if Ace Attorney 7 really is on the horizon, I still feel he may be a hard sell. Between being a popular request that got acknowledged by the devs and having an edge over most of his Capcom peers via process of elimination, I feel that Dante has a good shot at Smash 6's DLC.

Over the course of Ultimate's DLC, Nintendo managed to work their way down the Square-Enix food chain of popular character requests, adding Dragon Quest representation, a second FF7 character, and Kingdom Hearts's Sora. At this point, the one remaining Square character that stands out to me as missing from Smash, is Crono from Chrono Trigger. Sure, Chrono Trigger isn't some mega-hit series like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, but to me, it doesn't matter that much when Chrono Trigger as a game is arguably one of the most popular one-off JRPGs ever (I am aware that Chrono Cross exists, but it's largely disconnected from Trigger and is rather obscure in comparison). This achievement is particularly notable since the game was a mid-90s release, during the height of JRPGs coming out left and right, especially in their home country. While I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of Chrono Trigger as a game, I have seen how it has touched the hearts of a lot of people who've played it, and the fact that people still constantly discuss the game decades after its release says a lot, especially in comparison to the latest Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games getting left behind whenever a newer installment comes out. To me, Crono is the Banjo-Kazooie of RPG characters; they aren't the most relevant in today's gaming climate, but their games are undeniably interwoven in both Nintendo culture, and classic gaming culture as a whole.

I've seen some hot debate here about the inclusion of Doomguy in Smash 6. As you can see, I'm personally pro-Doomguy myself, and it's for a similar set of reasons as to why I'm pro-Hayabusa. Doomguy was the center of speculation for a long time thanks to leaks and rumors propping him up, and the momentum for the character only continued with every mainline Doom title getting ported to the Switch, along with Doom Eternal hype being in full swing both before and after its early 2020 release. In fact, unlike Hayabusa, Doomguy's demand was notable enough to warrant a special Mii Costume in Sora's presentation, which I feel is a sign of the seeds being planted for a future inclusion in Smash 6. Some have argued that Doom's FPS nature makes it a hard sell for Smash, but I argue that the fantastical nature of some of the weapons makes it not an impossibility, along with the fact that there are a decent number of close-combat options in the series that I feel can quell the fears of Doomguy being nothing but a toxic projectile camper. As for the ultraviolence concerns, I wholeheartedly believe that they can convey Doomguy's brutality without needing a ratings bump--just look at how Ridley is portrayed, especially considering one of his moves is him clearly skewering opponents with his sharp tail. Some have pointed to putting Master Chief over Doomguy, but if Banjo and Steve have taught me anything, the more likely scenario is that both characters would get in. Microsoft has proven to be both very buddy-buddy with Nintendo, and very receptive to fan demand, so I imagine that Doomguy is in very good hands here.

Up next are the last few placeholder slots I put on here. I can pretty much kill two birds with one stone by talking about both the Fire Emblem character and Atlus character placeholders here. For the former, Sakurai has gone on record saying that he's reserved slots for both Pokemon and Fire Emblem in each game so far, and I imagine that Smash 6 will be no different. Of course, I feel that the inevitable Fire Emblem character will be DLC again, considering we haven't seen anything about what the next mainline FE will be like (and we probably won't for quite some time), compared to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet already being shown and slated for this year.
As for the Atlus placeholder, I imagine that Atlus will want to cycle out Joker in favor of the protagonist from whatever future game they'll be promoting at that time, whether that be Persona 6 or some other project of theirs. Though admittedly, I have the nagging feeling that I can't rule out the possibility of Atlus wanting to stretch out Persona 5 as long as humanly possible, either.

The final placeholder here is a second Microsoft DLC character. As I mentioned above, Microsoft has been very generous with Nintendo in terms of what they've added to Ultimate, so I imagine it isn't too farfetched to see them put in two more DLC characters in Smash 6. The thing is, however, is that once Microsoft finalizes their buyout of ActiBlizz, they'll have two big console mascot names under their belt: Master Chief, and Crash Bandicoot. There are cases to be made about both; the former is Microsoft's biggest name, and one of the biggest names in FPS gaming to boot. The latter was PlayStation's unofficial mascot, and was a big name in Ultimate speculation even to the bitter end. It's really tough to say which one of them would be more likely to get in, if either of them even had the chance. The former has to potentially share space with Doomguy when it comes to Microsoft-owned potential Smash inclusions, while the latter was owned by a company that got in a lot of hot water over the past year, to the point where Nintendo (among other companies) released a PR message about it, and I imagine that Microsoft will flush out Activision's employees once they finalize their purchase of the company. If anything advantageous comes out for either of these characters, I'll probably update my prediction to reflect it, but for now I consider this situation to be a complete toss-up.

For the last DLC character, I pondered to myself this: "What would be a character that would both be a perfect note to close out the next Smash game on, and would be relevant by the time we reach that point (which is probably 5-6 years from now)?" Surprisingly, the potential answer came to me quickly.
Toby Fox is probably one of the few non-Nintendo alumni that has managed to get really close with Sakurai and Nintendo as a whole, and I suspect that he owes a lot of this to being inspired by a lot of Nintendo's own games when making his own content. As a result, it's no surprise that Undertale managed to resonate with a lot of people worldwide who had a similar gaming history as Toby, and it's even less of a surprise that Deltarune has kept up that momentum afterwards. Toby Fox is clearly good friends with a lot of other game devs, including Nintendo's staff and Sakurai, and I feel that as a result, Sakurai would be more than willing to add Kris from Deltarune in the next Smash to honor Toby's passion projects.
However, I feel there is one important condition here. As of this writing, Deltarune only has two out of a visible seven chapters complete. It's an episodic RPG game. And because of this, I feel that neither Sakurai nor Toby Fox will actually want to put Deltarune content in Smash until the game is complete, or VERY close to completion (as in "Sakurai can put in content that teases the last chapter(s) of the game because the character releases like a couple of weeks beforehand" very close). To put it simply, I think Kris has a likely chance at being the very last (if not one of the very last) DLC character in Smash 6, due to the circumstances revolving around his game and developer. I'd be at the very least shocked if absolutely nothing from the game gets added, to be honest.

Please let me know what you think about my choices and reasoning here. I look forward to your thoughts and critique.
I like a lot of choices here. Zero would be awesome and Hyrule Warriors Impa is by far my favorite version of the character and one of my most wanted first party characters. Akira Howard is a great choice as well, I’d love to see Jena Anderson get in at some point along side them. Chrono Trigger is one of my favorite games ever and while I’d rather have Magus, Crono makes more sense. The Microsoft character could potentially be one of my most wanted characters if they go with the Battletoads, a Killer Instinct character, or someone from StarCraft or WarCraft (ideally Kerrigan or Illidan). I’m loving Metroid Dread so far. My personal choice for a character would be EMMI but Raven Beak is a lot more logical so I’d be totally fine either way. I haven’t beaten the game yet so I skipped the description of Raven Beak to avoid spoilers.
 
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PeridotGX

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After some delay, I have finally finished both my Smash 6 prediction roster, and a little write-up for it as well!

Here is the image below. Echo fighters are stacked, and a purple background on a character indicates that they are DLC.



-Dark Samus, Daisy, Dark Pit, and Ken return from Ultimate.

-Richter has turned into being extra alts for Simon. Trevor from Castlevania III and Julius from Aria of Sorrow join him as further alts for Simon, and the entire slot is referred to as "Belmont" in a similar vein to the Hero.

-Funky Kong is added as a Donkey Kong echo. Functionally, Funky Kong retains most of DK's moveset, with two important differences; firstly, Funky trades some of DK's attack power in favor of being slightly faster than him, and secondly, whenever Funky is in midair, a surfboard (colored to match the player using him) materializes below him. While the surfboard is normally just a slightly extended hurtbox that deals less damage to Funky compared to hitting him directly, it affects three of his moves; his down air is no longer a spike, instead having him flip his surfboard below him. His neutral air and up special move differ from Donkey Kong's in a more important way, however; instead of Funky Kong spinning himself for these moves, he spins his surfboard instead, similar to his glide animation from Tropical Freeze. While this leaves Funky himself much more vulnerable for both moves, it becomes a good tool for using against opponents approaching from below, and the up special not only has more distance than DK's version, but the last hit of the surfboard from this move can spike players if caught in it. As a last note, if Funky uses his up special on the ground, he just spins himself on the ground like DK does, since there's no surfboard to spin on when grounded.

-Proto Man is added as a Mega Man echo. Proto Man is essentially a fully-realized version of the Custom Moves that Mega Man had in Smash 4, with some of his A moves being changed as well. In terms of special moves, Proto Man uses the "3" variants of Mega Man's special moves from Smash 4; Shadow Blade for the neutral special, Danger Wrap for the side special, Plant Barrier for the down special, and Beat for the up special. Other moveset replacements include (but aren't limited to) Water Wave replacing Flame Blast as a down smash, Solar Blaze replacing Spark Shot as an up smash, Gyro Attack replacing Air Shooter as an up aerial, Thunder Claw replacing Flame Sword as a forward aerial, and Laser Trident replacing Hard Knuckle as a down aerial. Finally, Proto Man would have his trademark shield, which can block projectiles while standing still, like with the Links and Hero.

-Rock Howard is added as a Terry echo. Rock shares a decent number of Terry's basic moves, but his Howard lineage and own personal mixups also provide some significant differences from Terry's playstyle; in terms of special moves, the Power Wave neutral special is replaced with the functionally-similar Reppuken, which becomes the Double Reppuken if held down. Power Dunk is replaced with Rage Run, which can either have Rock jump up and dunk downwards if tapped (Type "Dunk"), or instead have him sidestep past the opponent to catch them offguard (Type "Shift"). Rock dashes before doing either technique, so there is a tiny bit of startup lag involved in both moves. Burning Knuckle is replaced with the functionally-similar Hard Edge. Crack Shoot, however, is replaced with Crack Counter Jou-Dan; it is a slightly more powerful version of Terry's Crack Shoot, with the tradeoff being that Rock can only activate it if he is hit during the pose he makes when the move is inputted. Finally, Rising Tackle is unchanged from Terry's version of the move.
As for the special command input moves available when Rock reaches 100% or more, Power Geyser and Buster Wolf are replaced with Raging Storm (a technique inherited from Geese) and Shine Knuckle, respectively. For Rock's Final Smash, he uses the Neo Deadly Rave, another technique that Geese Howard has used as well.
I mainly chose Rock as a third new Echo because the fighting game representation in Smash really grew on me, and I thought it would be interesting to include an Echo Fighter who would very much highlight the "similar but different" nature that I feel more Echoes should be like.

Unlike the Echo Fighters section, I won't really go into potential mechanics for the newcomers, with maybe a couple of exceptions. Instead, I mainly intend to explain my reasoning for each of the inclusions I have made here; the same will apply to the DLC Fighters section. With that out of the way, let's begin with the base game newcomers.

-To start things off, we have the Octolings, specifically the protagonist versions first appearing in Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion DLC. Probably one of the safest guesses for Smash 6, though I decided to be a bit more interesting here by predicting that they will be an Isabelle-esque semi-clone to the Inklings instead of just being their Echo Fighter. They'd keep the same basic framework as the Inklings, including the whole Ink mechanic, but their weapon loadout for their moveset would be different in order to cover some of the bases that the Inkling moveset did not. Potential for a different moveset aside, considering that Splatoon has quickly made a name for itself and is already on its third installment, I feel it would be nonsensical for the Octolings to be an Echo while Isabelle remained her own character slot.

-At this point, I feel that the Zelda series needs some sort of significant shakeup, and adding Impa to its ranks while retiring Sheik feels significant enough. Although I'm not the most knowledgeable about Zelda as a series, I am aware of some of the recurring cast members throughout the franchise besides the Triforce wielders. Ultimately, it boiled down to either Impa or Tingle, and I chose Impa simply because the character has been around for longer, and because of the Hyrule Warriors sub-series giving us not just one, but two versions of her that I feel are fit for fighting; the Ocarina version of her as seen in the original Hyrule Warriors, and the version of her that appears in Age of Calamity. I feel that either of these versions of her could get in, though I chose the version featured in the original Warriors for the image out of convenience. Either way, Impa is undoubtedly an important recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and I felt it would make sense to have her replace Sheik, who was a one-off alter-ego character for Zelda that I feel only stayed around for so long in Smash's roster for legacy reasons.

-Alongside Impa is another addition to Zelda at the expense of another character, that being the Toy Link featured in the Link's Awakening remake replacing Toon Link. To a lot of you, this is probably a very controversial replacement, and that's because at this point, it still kind of is. This was the "interchangable character" I mentioned prior; I put Toy Link in as a prediction that a future Zelda title will reuse the art style the Awakening remake used. Specifically, I made this choice under the assumption that the Oracle games will get remade at some point in the forseeable future, thus using the toy diorama art style again. However, I cannot deny the possibility that the Link's Awakening remake was a one time thing regardless of how well it did, and if we don't see any meaningful return of its toy diorama style in the Zelda series when the next Smash comes around, then I very much plan to give Toon Link's place in the roster back and get rid of "Toy Link". In short, I feel that Toon and Toy Link are interchangable here currently, and if you prefer one over the other, you can assume that one is who gets in here.

==WARNING: METROID DREAD SPOILERS BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED, SCROLL PAST THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH.==

This next choice could be a case of counting ravens before they hatch, but I feel that Raven Beak is a worthy contender among Nintendo's first parties for Smash 6. While the character has only appeared in Samus Returns's ending and Metroid Dread, it's hard to overstate the impact on the entire Metroid saga that Raven Beak has left, from his extermination of the Thoha race being indirectly responsible for the events of nearly every Metroid title leading up to Dread, to him being one of the Chozo gene donors for Samus and thus being responsible for her enhanced combat prowess and instincts, a fact that Raven Beak taunts her with near the end of Dread. This aformentioned gene donation also means to me that Raven Beak would be an ideal Smash fighter--the way I see it, he would be the Ganondorf to Samus's Captain Falcon, and his X Parasite mutation at the end of Dread would make for the perfect Final Smash for him as well. Some people have mentioned the EMMI as a fighter from Dread, but I feel that they are too unorthodox compared to Raven Beak; Besides the fact that the EMMI are a group of robots instead of a single entity like the SA-X and Dark Samus before it, they also have various intentionally-overpowered aspects to them that would be impossible to translate well to Smash, between their nigh-destructible armor, their ability to traverse walls and ceilings freely, and especially the instant-kill needle jab that they do if they catch Samus. All in all, while I don't think Dread is automatically entitled to a representative, it is still a landmark game in Metroid's history critically and commercially, and Raven Beak has proven to be a break-out villain in his own right--I'd argue he's the most notable and important out of Metroid's one-shot antagonists.

==SPOILERS END HERE.==

We've reached the first of a good few placeholder slots, this one being a Pokemon from the upcoming Scarlet and Violet titles. At this point in time, I can't really make any proper guesses as to which Pokemon could make the cut since we only know about the initial starters, but if I had to make any sort of bet, I'd wager that Sprigatito's final evolution (whatever it looks like) will probably be the one picked, going off the last two Pokemon newcomers being the other two starter types. Other than that, not too much to say here for now.

This other placeholder here is a bit more of a risky guess, but I feel that at least one older Nintendo series will get a fresh breath of life here in Smash 6. As for the three characters I picked to represent this placeholder...
Andy is here because of the upcoming Advance Wars remake and because of Advance Wars being a popular Brawl-era request. If Reboot Camp proves to be a successful revival, then I could see one of its characters squeezing in as a last-minute addition.
Isaac is here due to being a longer-lasting first party request, and because of the notable glowup his Assist Trophy got when it returned for Ultimate. The only thing that makes Isaac uncertain here is because his series has been dormant since the DS era.
Starfy is admittedly a personal pick of mine, but having five games within the span of 6-7 years is honestly still an incredible feat if you ask me, even if only the last one came out worldwide. Unfortunately, due to Starfy's momentum stopping dead in its tracks with that fifth game, it's a hard sell unless his older games get remade in the near future, but even then, I have the strong feeling that Sakurai very much disagrees with the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" when it comes to characters who look like Kirby...
A honorable mention here is the Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character); this series is probably the most fit out of all the ones I've mentioned here, but being barred from Smash 4 and not even given the time of day for Ultimate (outside of Grinch) makes me question if they just can't find a satisfactory way to implement Rhythm Heaven into a Smash fighter.

Originally, I also had a placeholder for a "future Nintendo IP" on the roster, but remembering that Nintendo bought the rights to Astral Chain made me realize that Akira/Officer Howard has now become a strong contender for Smash 6. Smash isn't unfamiliar with Platinum-developed games thanks to Bayonetta's inclusion, and with the company's continued relationship with Nintendo, I imagine that Howard being included in Smash 6 would be a good relationship sweetener after Nintendo bought Astral Chain as an IP. I can't comment much more about this since I'm not too familiar with Astral Chain as a video game, other than that I also considered the Ring Fit protagonists as a recent Nintendo fighter, but I felt that Howard would bring much more to the table even if Ring Fit is popular in its own right, and also because I feel that they wouldn't want to replace the Wii Fit Trainer just yet.

The last of the first-party niches I needed to fill was the obligatory joke/retro character. I feel that after Piranha Plant's mixed reception, the next suprise character will go back to referencing Nintendo's legacy hardware. I decided that the Famicom Disk System would be a good target for this, and as a result I added Diskun to the roster. I envisioned this character's moveset as basically being Mr. Game & Watch's basic concept, applied to Nintendo games released on the Disk System. Luckily, since a lot of earlier Famicom titles were ported to the Disk System later on, this opens up more material for such a moveset. I didn't really write down any specific concepts, with the exception of an idea for a special grabbing mechanic; like with Donkey Kong, if Diskun grabs someone and taps forward or backward on the control stick, they'll start carrying the character over their head and are granted limited movement while the character is still in their grasp. Here, it would function like holding an item in Super Mario Bros. 2 (or should I say...Doki Doki Panic?), where Diskun can move left, move right, or jump like Mario/Imajin does in that game while holding an object. Pressing A makes Diskun toss the grabbed character at a downwards arc like how the player throws items in Mario 2/Doki Doki Panic, and the thrown character can potentially be knocked into another fighter for decent damage. Honestly, this may be a fighter I'll try and make a full moveset for in the future.

When it comes to third-party newcomers in Smash 6, for my money the biggest elephant in the room that needs to be addressed here is Bomberman from his eponymous series. I feel that Bomberman certainly got his foot in the door with Ultimate; his Assist Trophy is one of the more complex-functioning ones, said Assist got special highlight during Ultimate's E3 2018 presentation, and later on Bomberman got a full-body Mii Costume that even changed color depending on the Mii's preferred color. I can't help but feel that Sakurai wanted to have Bomberman playable at first, but putting in all of the content for Castlevania ended up taking major priority instead when it came to Ultimate's development. Even if Bomberman hasn't been too active outside of Super R and its Online mode, the series has a staggering legacy, with it being present on virtually every game platform that's been on the market since 1983, and the series being able to directly collaborate with one of Nintendo's properties (the US version of Bomberman GB that turned the game into a Wario crossover) is an impressive feat among third-party franchises. I can't help but feel that Bomberman will get his proper due in Smash 6.

Be warned as my bias could potentially be showing here with this next pick, but I have a gut feeling that Puyo Puyo's Arle Nadja will be the next character owned by Sega to get in Smash. When you look at Sega's current top franchises, while Sonic obviously takes the number 1 spot, Puyo Puyo is actually not too far behind, at least on the Japan side of things. And this is for good reason; ever since its 1991 inception, Puyo has been a frequent-flying series in its homeland, having made appearances on every major platform in some form except Nintendo's ill-fated Virtual Boy. The competitive arcade outings in the early 90s are what I feel started the whole competitive puzzle game craze in the first place; if you've ever played games in the past like Magical Drop, Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack, Panic Bomber, and Puzzle Fighter, chances are that they all owe their existence to Puyo Puyo kickstarting the trend of two-player head-to-head puzzle games, all the way back in 1992. Besides the legacy of the games themselves, the cast has also gotten some popularity in their own right, especially considering older mainstays like Arle and Carbuncle have appeared in the vast majority of the franchise's works, extending to the original dungeon-crawling Mado Monogatari series that Puyo spun off from. Even after Sega bought the rights to the series and introduced a new cast of characters in Puyo Puyo Fever, Arle and Carbuncle remained present in every title, and starting with the anniversary games, other classic Compile-era characters made their return as well. Even 30 years on, Arle and Carbuncle remain the de facto mascots and faces of this Japan-popular franchise, and ever since the series finally breached international waters with the 2017 rerelease of Puyo Puyo Tetris, Arle has started making a name for herself in Western communities as well, to the point where I'd argue that she was the one non-Sonic Sega character that popped up the most in Ultimate's speculation, to the point where, in an interview held during Ultimate's DLC cycle, the current Puyo series producer expressed interest in seeing Arle being included in a Smash title. To sum things up, between the series's popularity in its home country, its consistent presence on Nintendo platforms, and having a good amount of presence in Smash speculation, I feel that Arle is prime for a spot in Smash 6.

Capcom was certainly not shy about pouring on content in Smash Ultimate, and it's an easy assumption that it will be the same case for Smash 6. Since Street Fighter got its turn at a new character in Ultimate, I think Mega Man will get its share next installment. And among Mega Man's cast, I feel that Zero from the Mega Man X subseries is the prime candidate for inclusion. Zero is undoubtedly a popular character in his own right, both with fans and within Capcom as well, having gotten his own line of subseries, being revived repeatedly in the X series out of popular demand, and even having been slated to be X himself at one point in X1's development. You could probably make a good argument that Zero is more popular than the Blue Bomber himself, or at least much more popular than X. Besides Zero's popularity, there's also the case of his Assist Trophy in Ultimate, being one of the Assists that's the closest to being a full fighter in functionality (likely owing to his aforementioned popularity). Turning Zero from an Assist Trophy to a full fighter would be an easy crowd pleaser for Smash 6, and would also open the opportunity for one of Mega Man's most important subseries to get proper representation next time around. Some people may question me putting him over X, but as Kazuya and the Aegis Blades have demonstrated, just because Zero isn't the titular Mega Man X, doesn't mean that he isn't a main character in that series anyway.

SNK was very generous with content when it came to Terry Bogard's DLC, and I imagine that as with Capcom, they'll be more than cooperative during Smash 6's development. Iori Yagami is almost a same-song-and-dance ordeal as with Zero; an incredibly popular character within his own series, and popular in his own right as an SNK icon despite not being the initial main protagonist of his series. Though what gave him the edge over Kyo for me, was Sakurai's comments about him during his Terry presentation, stating that he considered him his favorite character within the King of Fighters series. To me, that comment pretty much means "If I get to add someone from The King of Fighters proper, he's getting in without a second thought about it." Considering that Terry already got the lion's share of SNK content in Ultimate, however, I feel that Smash 6's base game is the only real opportunity for Iori to be added, since it'd be hard to justify a second SNK fighter being in a Challenger Pack if Terry retains most or all of his content in the next game.

The last of the base game third-parties is someone I consider to be another elephant in the room that materialized thanks to the Ultimate speculation community; the character in question being Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa. Hayabusa is certainly a bandwagon pick in origin--the fake 5chan leak that circulated at the beginning of 2019 is what put Hayabusa on the mind of a lot of speculators, especially since the leak would take a good six or so months to be hard deconfirmed thanks to Banjo's inclusion and the presence of multiple Heroes besides Erdrick. However, despite the 5chan leak fading away, Ryu Hayabusa continued to be a common name anyway, partially thanks to also being in a "Google leak" that also lasted a while before getting shot down, and more importantly, because of rampant rumors indicating that Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo would collaborate in some form regarding Smash (this turned out to be Byleth from the KT-developed Three Houses getting in, along with Hyrule Warriors spirits getting added later on). Hayabusa remained a frequent name in speculation, and while most of this was due to vague rumors and bogus leaks getting spread around, I feel that any kind of publicity for a character is good publicity when it comes to Smash. However, what cinches it for me is Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo's aforementioned relationship; the company not only managed to help develop a mainline Fire Emblem title, but is also working on its fourth Warriors crossover game (sixth if you consider the 3DS and Switch versions of Hyrule Warriors to be their own games) with Nintendo. Add this onto Ryu's decently-healthy presence on Nintendo platforms; he got his start with a trilogy of NES games, got a Game Boy title, a SNES compilation, a DS game, an appearance on the 3DS thanks to Dead or Alive Dimensions (which featured a Metroid crossover stage!), and now a Switch compilation of the "reboot" Ninja Gaiden trilogy. These three elements are what I feel to be the perfect storm for Ryu Hayabusa to be the Simon Belmont of Smash 6's newcomers.

Since I imagine that Smash 6 will go with Smash 4's mentality of "Bring back as many characters as possible without going out of our way to do so either", it's logical to assume that a couple of fan favorites will have to be excluded from the base game. I can see Wolf returning as DLC, not unlike what happened to Mewtwo in Smash 4. A lesser example here would be Greninja. While Greninja is certainly a popular Pokemon if official ranking polls are to be believed, Pokemon X and Y will be over a decade old by the time Smash 6 comes around, and I think it'll be hard to justify keeping Greninja as a base game character. However, I feel that it will still be just popular enough to come back as DLC, being a Pokemon character and all.

There are two characters that I would like to have return in the base game, but I feel that removing "Everyone is Here" will inevitably send these characters into the DLC realm, both for the same reason. Sephiroth and Sora were two of the biggest bombshell reveals during Ultimate's DLC cycle, and knowing Square-Enix and Disney, they won't have the characters completely cut in the next Smash (assuming Nintendo doesn't royally piss off either of them), but they'll probably hold them hostage as DLC again, and probably for a bit of a higher price compared to 1st party veteran DLC. The companies know that they got a lot of heads to turn when these characters got added to Smash, and if they aren't obliged to conform to the "everyone returns" gimmick this time around, they'll jump on the opportunity to capitalize on these two fighters again. Though I'll say this: If Sora is somehow a base game character in the next Smash, I will watch an entire summary of Kingdom Hearts's plot, mark my words.

Now we're moving onto the DLC newcomers proper here. When you look at Smash's current roster, one of the biggest uncomfortable truths begins to stick out; despite being the only third-party character with a perfect attendance so far, Sonic has gone three games without having a second character, and it'd look pretty ugly if he goes a fourth game solo as well. I've come to the conclusion that the prime candidate for the second Sonic character is none other than Dr. Eggman. Sure, Shadow and Knuckles would be easier to develop, but out of all of Sonic's rivals and adversaries, I feel that his most common enemy and main antagonist of the series deserves the spot over anyone else. Besides being nearly omnipresent in the series, Eggman's popularity within the Sonic fandom has been consistently high throughout the series's history, to the point where I'd argue that he's been more consistently popular than Sonic himself (let alone his other friends) within the fandom at large. However, I imagine that Eggman would be one of the more complex characters to make, and as a result, I think he is best suited as a DLC fighter.

It's a no-brainer to assume that some of the DLC for Smash 6 will be first-party newcomers, and it's also a no-brainer to assume that Xenoblade 3 will get representation in Smash 6. That's why it was very easy for me to put Noah on the roster. However, as with the case of Pyra and Mythra in Ultimate, I imagine that Xenoblade 3 is going to miss the bus for any significant base game representation, and will have to wait for DLC to get anything meaningful here. If any interviews about Smash 6's base game express disappointment that they couldn't get Xenoblade 3 content in there, then I'd consider that to be a very good sign for their chances as DLC.

During Kazuya's presentation, Sakurai noted that the Mii Costumes revealed in Kazuya's wave were characters that "a lot of people have been wanting...as standalone fighters". Among the four characters shown as costumes during the presentation, I felt that Dante had the most going for him, being a popular Capcom request that persisted for most of Ultimate's speculation cycle. While him being from an M-rated series is a bit of a hurdle, I feel that most of Dante's competition has even bigger hoops to jump through; Resident Evil couldn't get a costume and is arguably more mature in content than DMC, Monster Hunter has the problem of the devteam not liking to use the Hunters in crossovers, and while Phoenix Wright could get that "turnabout" victory if Ace Attorney 7 really is on the horizon, I still feel he may be a hard sell. Between being a popular request that got acknowledged by the devs and having an edge over most of his Capcom peers via process of elimination, I feel that Dante has a good shot at Smash 6's DLC.

Over the course of Ultimate's DLC, Nintendo managed to work their way down the Square-Enix food chain of popular character requests, adding Dragon Quest representation, a second FF7 character, and Kingdom Hearts's Sora. At this point, the one remaining Square character that stands out to me as missing from Smash, is Crono from Chrono Trigger. Sure, Chrono Trigger isn't some mega-hit series like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, but to me, it doesn't matter that much when Chrono Trigger as a game is arguably one of the most popular one-off JRPGs ever (I am aware that Chrono Cross exists, but it's largely disconnected from Trigger and is rather obscure in comparison). This achievement is particularly notable since the game was a mid-90s release, during the height of JRPGs coming out left and right, especially in their home country. While I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of Chrono Trigger as a game, I have seen how it has touched the hearts of a lot of people who've played it, and the fact that people still constantly discuss the game decades after its release says a lot, especially in comparison to the latest Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games getting left behind whenever a newer installment comes out. To me, Crono is the Banjo-Kazooie of RPG characters; they aren't the most relevant in today's gaming climate, but their games are undeniably interwoven in both Nintendo culture, and classic gaming culture as a whole.

I've seen some hot debate here about the inclusion of Doomguy in Smash 6. As you can see, I'm personally pro-Doomguy myself, and it's for a similar set of reasons as to why I'm pro-Hayabusa. Doomguy was the center of speculation for a long time thanks to leaks and rumors propping him up, and the momentum for the character only continued with every mainline Doom title getting ported to the Switch, along with Doom Eternal hype being in full swing both before and after its early 2020 release. In fact, unlike Hayabusa, Doomguy's demand was notable enough to warrant a special Mii Costume in Sora's presentation, which I feel is a sign of the seeds being planted for a future inclusion in Smash 6. Some have argued that Doom's FPS nature makes it a hard sell for Smash, but I argue that the fantastical nature of some of the weapons makes it not an impossibility, along with the fact that there are a decent number of close-combat options in the series that I feel can quell the fears of Doomguy being nothing but a toxic projectile camper. As for the ultraviolence concerns, I wholeheartedly believe that they can convey Doomguy's brutality without needing a ratings bump--just look at how Ridley is portrayed, especially considering one of his moves is him clearly skewering opponents with his sharp tail. Some have pointed to putting Master Chief over Doomguy, but if Banjo and Steve have taught me anything, the more likely scenario is that both characters would get in. Microsoft has proven to be both very buddy-buddy with Nintendo, and very receptive to fan demand, so I imagine that Doomguy is in very good hands here.

Up next are the last few placeholder slots I put on here. I can pretty much kill two birds with one stone by talking about both the Fire Emblem character and Atlus character placeholders here. For the former, Sakurai has gone on record saying that he's reserved slots for both Pokemon and Fire Emblem in each game so far, and I imagine that Smash 6 will be no different. Of course, I feel that the inevitable Fire Emblem character will be DLC again, considering we haven't seen anything about what the next mainline FE will be like (and we probably won't for quite some time), compared to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet already being shown and slated for this year.
As for the Atlus placeholder, I imagine that Atlus will want to cycle out Joker in favor of the protagonist from whatever future game they'll be promoting at that time, whether that be Persona 6 or some other project of theirs. Though admittedly, I have the nagging feeling that I can't rule out the possibility of Atlus wanting to stretch out Persona 5 as long as humanly possible, either.

The final placeholder here is a second Microsoft DLC character. As I mentioned above, Microsoft has been very generous with Nintendo in terms of what they've added to Ultimate, so I imagine it isn't too farfetched to see them put in two more DLC characters in Smash 6. The thing is, however, is that once Microsoft finalizes their buyout of ActiBlizz, they'll have two big console mascot names under their belt: Master Chief, and Crash Bandicoot. There are cases to be made about both; the former is Microsoft's biggest name, and one of the biggest names in FPS gaming to boot. The latter was PlayStation's unofficial mascot, and was a big name in Ultimate speculation even to the bitter end. It's really tough to say which one of them would be more likely to get in, if either of them even had the chance. The former has to potentially share space with Doomguy when it comes to Microsoft-owned potential Smash inclusions, while the latter was owned by a company that got in a lot of hot water over the past year, to the point where Nintendo (among other companies) released a PR message about it, and I imagine that Microsoft will flush out Activision's employees once they finalize their purchase of the company. If anything advantageous comes out for either of these characters, I'll probably update my prediction to reflect it, but for now I consider this situation to be a complete toss-up.

For the last DLC character, I pondered to myself this: "What would be a character that would both be a perfect note to close out the next Smash game on, and would be relevant by the time we reach that point (which is probably 5-6 years from now)?" Surprisingly, the potential answer came to me quickly.
Toby Fox is probably one of the few non-Nintendo alumni that has managed to get really close with Sakurai and Nintendo as a whole, and I suspect that he owes a lot of this to being inspired by a lot of Nintendo's own games when making his own content. As a result, it's no surprise that Undertale managed to resonate with a lot of people worldwide who had a similar gaming history as Toby, and it's even less of a surprise that Deltarune has kept up that momentum afterwards. Toby Fox is clearly good friends with a lot of other game devs, including Nintendo's staff and Sakurai, and I feel that as a result, Sakurai would be more than willing to add Kris from Deltarune in the next Smash to honor Toby's passion projects.
However, I feel there is one important condition here. As of this writing, Deltarune only has two out of a visible seven chapters complete. It's an episodic RPG game. And because of this, I feel that neither Sakurai nor Toby Fox will actually want to put Deltarune content in Smash until the game is complete, or VERY close to completion (as in "Sakurai can put in content that teases the last chapter(s) of the game because the character releases like a couple of weeks beforehand" very close). To put it simply, I think Kris has a likely chance at being the very last (if not one of the very last) DLC character in Smash 6, due to the circumstances revolving around his game and developer. I'd be at the very least shocked if absolutely nothing from the game gets added, to be honest.

Please let me know what you think about my choices and reasoning here. I look forward to your thoughts and critique.
This is a pretty good prediction. There are some things I disagree with (the merging of the Belmont's, specifically Diskun), but also some underdogs I think have a really good shot (Iori and Kris). The one big issue I have is with the Gen 9 rep and Noah. While your arguments would make perfect sense if Smash 6 was releasing next year, it isn't. I think it's probably coming in 2025 at the absolute earliest, but more likely '26 or '27. This means that there's nothing stopping Noah from being in base, unless Xenoblade 4 is out and he gets Elma'd. Same thing for Scarlet/Violet, the series is terrifyingly consistent, I would bet money on Gen 10 in 2025 - which means a Scarlet/Violet rep is unlikely
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,512
This is a pretty good prediction. There are some things I disagree with (the merging of the Belmont's, specifically Diskun), but also some underdogs I think have a really good shot (Iori and Kris). The one big issue I have is with the Gen 9 rep and Noah. While your arguments would make perfect sense if Smash 6 was releasing next year, it isn't. I think it's probably coming in 2025 at the absolute earliest, but more likely '26 or '27. This means that there's nothing stopping Noah from being in base, unless Xenoblade 4 is out and he gets Elma'd. Same thing for Scarlet/Violet, the series is terrifyingly consistent, I would bet money on Gen 10 in 2025 - which means a Scarlet/Violet rep is unlikely
There’s also the possibility of going with another popular Pokémon that isn’t from the most recent generation. They added Pokémon Trainer in Brawl so you never know. And no, I’m not just saying that because I still want a certain character in my name and profile pic. :094:
 
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dream1ng

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
1,903
After some delay, I have finally finished both my Smash 6 prediction roster, and a little write-up for it as well!

Here is the image below. Echo fighters are stacked, and a purple background on a character indicates that they are DLC.



-Dark Samus, Daisy, Dark Pit, and Ken return from Ultimate.

-Richter has turned into being extra alts for Simon. Trevor from Castlevania III and Julius from Aria of Sorrow join him as further alts for Simon, and the entire slot is referred to as "Belmont" in a similar vein to the Hero.

-Funky Kong is added as a Donkey Kong echo. Functionally, Funky Kong retains most of DK's moveset, with two important differences; firstly, Funky trades some of DK's attack power in favor of being slightly faster than him, and secondly, whenever Funky is in midair, a surfboard (colored to match the player using him) materializes below him. While the surfboard is normally just a slightly extended hurtbox that deals less damage to Funky compared to hitting him directly, it affects three of his moves; his down air is no longer a spike, instead having him flip his surfboard below him. His neutral air and up special move differ from Donkey Kong's in a more important way, however; instead of Funky Kong spinning himself for these moves, he spins his surfboard instead, similar to his glide animation from Tropical Freeze. While this leaves Funky himself much more vulnerable for both moves, it becomes a good tool for using against opponents approaching from below, and the up special not only has more distance than DK's version, but the last hit of the surfboard from this move can spike players if caught in it. As a last note, if Funky uses his up special on the ground, he just spins himself on the ground like DK does, since there's no surfboard to spin on when grounded.

-Proto Man is added as a Mega Man echo. Proto Man is essentially a fully-realized version of the Custom Moves that Mega Man had in Smash 4, with some of his A moves being changed as well. In terms of special moves, Proto Man uses the "3" variants of Mega Man's special moves from Smash 4; Shadow Blade for the neutral special, Danger Wrap for the side special, Plant Barrier for the down special, and Beat for the up special. Other moveset replacements include (but aren't limited to) Water Wave replacing Flame Blast as a down smash, Solar Blaze replacing Spark Shot as an up smash, Gyro Attack replacing Air Shooter as an up aerial, Thunder Claw replacing Flame Sword as a forward aerial, and Laser Trident replacing Hard Knuckle as a down aerial. Finally, Proto Man would have his trademark shield, which can block projectiles while standing still, like with the Links and Hero.

-Rock Howard is added as a Terry echo. Rock shares a decent number of Terry's basic moves, but his Howard lineage and own personal mixups also provide some significant differences from Terry's playstyle; in terms of special moves, the Power Wave neutral special is replaced with the functionally-similar Reppuken, which becomes the Double Reppuken if held down. Power Dunk is replaced with Rage Run, which can either have Rock jump up and dunk downwards if tapped (Type "Dunk"), or instead have him sidestep past the opponent to catch them offguard (Type "Shift"). Rock dashes before doing either technique, so there is a tiny bit of startup lag involved in both moves. Burning Knuckle is replaced with the functionally-similar Hard Edge. Crack Shoot, however, is replaced with Crack Counter Jou-Dan; it is a slightly more powerful version of Terry's Crack Shoot, with the tradeoff being that Rock can only activate it if he is hit during the pose he makes when the move is inputted. Finally, Rising Tackle is unchanged from Terry's version of the move.
As for the special command input moves available when Rock reaches 100% or more, Power Geyser and Buster Wolf are replaced with Raging Storm (a technique inherited from Geese) and Shine Knuckle, respectively. For Rock's Final Smash, he uses the Neo Deadly Rave, another technique that Geese Howard has used as well.
I mainly chose Rock as a third new Echo because the fighting game representation in Smash really grew on me, and I thought it would be interesting to include an Echo Fighter who would very much highlight the "similar but different" nature that I feel more Echoes should be like.

Unlike the Echo Fighters section, I won't really go into potential mechanics for the newcomers, with maybe a couple of exceptions. Instead, I mainly intend to explain my reasoning for each of the inclusions I have made here; the same will apply to the DLC Fighters section. With that out of the way, let's begin with the base game newcomers.

-To start things off, we have the Octolings, specifically the protagonist versions first appearing in Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion DLC. Probably one of the safest guesses for Smash 6, though I decided to be a bit more interesting here by predicting that they will be an Isabelle-esque semi-clone to the Inklings instead of just being their Echo Fighter. They'd keep the same basic framework as the Inklings, including the whole Ink mechanic, but their weapon loadout for their moveset would be different in order to cover some of the bases that the Inkling moveset did not. Potential for a different moveset aside, considering that Splatoon has quickly made a name for itself and is already on its third installment, I feel it would be nonsensical for the Octolings to be an Echo while Isabelle remained her own character slot.

-At this point, I feel that the Zelda series needs some sort of significant shakeup, and adding Impa to its ranks while retiring Sheik feels significant enough. Although I'm not the most knowledgeable about Zelda as a series, I am aware of some of the recurring cast members throughout the franchise besides the Triforce wielders. Ultimately, it boiled down to either Impa or Tingle, and I chose Impa simply because the character has been around for longer, and because of the Hyrule Warriors sub-series giving us not just one, but two versions of her that I feel are fit for fighting; the Ocarina version of her as seen in the original Hyrule Warriors, and the version of her that appears in Age of Calamity. I feel that either of these versions of her could get in, though I chose the version featured in the original Warriors for the image out of convenience. Either way, Impa is undoubtedly an important recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and I felt it would make sense to have her replace Sheik, who was a one-off alter-ego character for Zelda that I feel only stayed around for so long in Smash's roster for legacy reasons.

-Alongside Impa is another addition to Zelda at the expense of another character, that being the Toy Link featured in the Link's Awakening remake replacing Toon Link. To a lot of you, this is probably a very controversial replacement, and that's because at this point, it still kind of is. This was the "interchangable character" I mentioned prior; I put Toy Link in as a prediction that a future Zelda title will reuse the art style the Awakening remake used. Specifically, I made this choice under the assumption that the Oracle games will get remade at some point in the forseeable future, thus using the toy diorama art style again. However, I cannot deny the possibility that the Link's Awakening remake was a one time thing regardless of how well it did, and if we don't see any meaningful return of its toy diorama style in the Zelda series when the next Smash comes around, then I very much plan to give Toon Link's place in the roster back and get rid of "Toy Link". In short, I feel that Toon and Toy Link are interchangable here currently, and if you prefer one over the other, you can assume that one is who gets in here.

==WARNING: METROID DREAD SPOILERS BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED, SCROLL PAST THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH.==

This next choice could be a case of counting ravens before they hatch, but I feel that Raven Beak is a worthy contender among Nintendo's first parties for Smash 6. While the character has only appeared in Samus Returns's ending and Metroid Dread, it's hard to overstate the impact on the entire Metroid saga that Raven Beak has left, from his extermination of the Thoha race being indirectly responsible for the events of nearly every Metroid title leading up to Dread, to him being one of the Chozo gene donors for Samus and thus being responsible for her enhanced combat prowess and instincts, a fact that Raven Beak taunts her with near the end of Dread. This aformentioned gene donation also means to me that Raven Beak would be an ideal Smash fighter--the way I see it, he would be the Ganondorf to Samus's Captain Falcon, and his X Parasite mutation at the end of Dread would make for the perfect Final Smash for him as well. Some people have mentioned the EMMI as a fighter from Dread, but I feel that they are too unorthodox compared to Raven Beak; Besides the fact that the EMMI are a group of robots instead of a single entity like the SA-X and Dark Samus before it, they also have various intentionally-overpowered aspects to them that would be impossible to translate well to Smash, between their nigh-destructible armor, their ability to traverse walls and ceilings freely, and especially the instant-kill needle jab that they do if they catch Samus. All in all, while I don't think Dread is automatically entitled to a representative, it is still a landmark game in Metroid's history critically and commercially, and Raven Beak has proven to be a break-out villain in his own right--I'd argue he's the most notable and important out of Metroid's one-shot antagonists.

==SPOILERS END HERE.==

We've reached the first of a good few placeholder slots, this one being a Pokemon from the upcoming Scarlet and Violet titles. At this point in time, I can't really make any proper guesses as to which Pokemon could make the cut since we only know about the initial starters, but if I had to make any sort of bet, I'd wager that Sprigatito's final evolution (whatever it looks like) will probably be the one picked, going off the last two Pokemon newcomers being the other two starter types. Other than that, not too much to say here for now.

This other placeholder here is a bit more of a risky guess, but I feel that at least one older Nintendo series will get a fresh breath of life here in Smash 6. As for the three characters I picked to represent this placeholder...
Andy is here because of the upcoming Advance Wars remake and because of Advance Wars being a popular Brawl-era request. If Reboot Camp proves to be a successful revival, then I could see one of its characters squeezing in as a last-minute addition.
Isaac is here due to being a longer-lasting first party request, and because of the notable glowup his Assist Trophy got when it returned for Ultimate. The only thing that makes Isaac uncertain here is because his series has been dormant since the DS era.
Starfy is admittedly a personal pick of mine, but having five games within the span of 6-7 years is honestly still an incredible feat if you ask me, even if only the last one came out worldwide. Unfortunately, due to Starfy's momentum stopping dead in its tracks with that fifth game, it's a hard sell unless his older games get remade in the near future, but even then, I have the strong feeling that Sakurai very much disagrees with the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" when it comes to characters who look like Kirby...
A honorable mention here is the Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character); this series is probably the most fit out of all the ones I've mentioned here, but being barred from Smash 4 and not even given the time of day for Ultimate (outside of Grinch) makes me question if they just can't find a satisfactory way to implement Rhythm Heaven into a Smash fighter.

Originally, I also had a placeholder for a "future Nintendo IP" on the roster, but remembering that Nintendo bought the rights to Astral Chain made me realize that Akira/Officer Howard has now become a strong contender for Smash 6. Smash isn't unfamiliar with Platinum-developed games thanks to Bayonetta's inclusion, and with the company's continued relationship with Nintendo, I imagine that Howard being included in Smash 6 would be a good relationship sweetener after Nintendo bought Astral Chain as an IP. I can't comment much more about this since I'm not too familiar with Astral Chain as a video game, other than that I also considered the Ring Fit protagonists as a recent Nintendo fighter, but I felt that Howard would bring much more to the table even if Ring Fit is popular in its own right, and also because I feel that they wouldn't want to replace the Wii Fit Trainer just yet.

The last of the first-party niches I needed to fill was the obligatory joke/retro character. I feel that after Piranha Plant's mixed reception, the next suprise character will go back to referencing Nintendo's legacy hardware. I decided that the Famicom Disk System would be a good target for this, and as a result I added Diskun to the roster. I envisioned this character's moveset as basically being Mr. Game & Watch's basic concept, applied to Nintendo games released on the Disk System. Luckily, since a lot of earlier Famicom titles were ported to the Disk System later on, this opens up more material for such a moveset. I didn't really write down any specific concepts, with the exception of an idea for a special grabbing mechanic; like with Donkey Kong, if Diskun grabs someone and taps forward or backward on the control stick, they'll start carrying the character over their head and are granted limited movement while the character is still in their grasp. Here, it would function like holding an item in Super Mario Bros. 2 (or should I say...Doki Doki Panic?), where Diskun can move left, move right, or jump like Mario/Imajin does in that game while holding an object. Pressing A makes Diskun toss the grabbed character at a downwards arc like how the player throws items in Mario 2/Doki Doki Panic, and the thrown character can potentially be knocked into another fighter for decent damage. Honestly, this may be a fighter I'll try and make a full moveset for in the future.

When it comes to third-party newcomers in Smash 6, for my money the biggest elephant in the room that needs to be addressed here is Bomberman from his eponymous series. I feel that Bomberman certainly got his foot in the door with Ultimate; his Assist Trophy is one of the more complex-functioning ones, said Assist got special highlight during Ultimate's E3 2018 presentation, and later on Bomberman got a full-body Mii Costume that even changed color depending on the Mii's preferred color. I can't help but feel that Sakurai wanted to have Bomberman playable at first, but putting in all of the content for Castlevania ended up taking major priority instead when it came to Ultimate's development. Even if Bomberman hasn't been too active outside of Super R and its Online mode, the series has a staggering legacy, with it being present on virtually every game platform that's been on the market since 1983, and the series being able to directly collaborate with one of Nintendo's properties (the US version of Bomberman GB that turned the game into a Wario crossover) is an impressive feat among third-party franchises. I can't help but feel that Bomberman will get his proper due in Smash 6.

Be warned as my bias could potentially be showing here with this next pick, but I have a gut feeling that Puyo Puyo's Arle Nadja will be the next character owned by Sega to get in Smash. When you look at Sega's current top franchises, while Sonic obviously takes the number 1 spot, Puyo Puyo is actually not too far behind, at least on the Japan side of things. And this is for good reason; ever since its 1991 inception, Puyo has been a frequent-flying series in its homeland, having made appearances on every major platform in some form except Nintendo's ill-fated Virtual Boy. The competitive arcade outings in the early 90s are what I feel started the whole competitive puzzle game craze in the first place; if you've ever played games in the past like Magical Drop, Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack, Panic Bomber, and Puzzle Fighter, chances are that they all owe their existence to Puyo Puyo kickstarting the trend of two-player head-to-head puzzle games, all the way back in 1992. Besides the legacy of the games themselves, the cast has also gotten some popularity in their own right, especially considering older mainstays like Arle and Carbuncle have appeared in the vast majority of the franchise's works, extending to the original dungeon-crawling Mado Monogatari series that Puyo spun off from. Even after Sega bought the rights to the series and introduced a new cast of characters in Puyo Puyo Fever, Arle and Carbuncle remained present in every title, and starting with the anniversary games, other classic Compile-era characters made their return as well. Even 30 years on, Arle and Carbuncle remain the de facto mascots and faces of this Japan-popular franchise, and ever since the series finally breached international waters with the 2017 rerelease of Puyo Puyo Tetris, Arle has started making a name for herself in Western communities as well, to the point where I'd argue that she was the one non-Sonic Sega character that popped up the most in Ultimate's speculation, to the point where, in an interview held during Ultimate's DLC cycle, the current Puyo series producer expressed interest in seeing Arle being included in a Smash title. To sum things up, between the series's popularity in its home country, its consistent presence on Nintendo platforms, and having a good amount of presence in Smash speculation, I feel that Arle is prime for a spot in Smash 6.

Capcom was certainly not shy about pouring on content in Smash Ultimate, and it's an easy assumption that it will be the same case for Smash 6. Since Street Fighter got its turn at a new character in Ultimate, I think Mega Man will get its share next installment. And among Mega Man's cast, I feel that Zero from the Mega Man X subseries is the prime candidate for inclusion. Zero is undoubtedly a popular character in his own right, both with fans and within Capcom as well, having gotten his own line of subseries, being revived repeatedly in the X series out of popular demand, and even having been slated to be X himself at one point in X1's development. You could probably make a good argument that Zero is more popular than the Blue Bomber himself, or at least much more popular than X. Besides Zero's popularity, there's also the case of his Assist Trophy in Ultimate, being one of the Assists that's the closest to being a full fighter in functionality (likely owing to his aforementioned popularity). Turning Zero from an Assist Trophy to a full fighter would be an easy crowd pleaser for Smash 6, and would also open the opportunity for one of Mega Man's most important subseries to get proper representation next time around. Some people may question me putting him over X, but as Kazuya and the Aegis Blades have demonstrated, just because Zero isn't the titular Mega Man X, doesn't mean that he isn't a main character in that series anyway.

SNK was very generous with content when it came to Terry Bogard's DLC, and I imagine that as with Capcom, they'll be more than cooperative during Smash 6's development. Iori Yagami is almost a same-song-and-dance ordeal as with Zero; an incredibly popular character within his own series, and popular in his own right as an SNK icon despite not being the initial main protagonist of his series. Though what gave him the edge over Kyo for me, was Sakurai's comments about him during his Terry presentation, stating that he considered him his favorite character within the King of Fighters series. To me, that comment pretty much means "If I get to add someone from The King of Fighters proper, he's getting in without a second thought about it." Considering that Terry already got the lion's share of SNK content in Ultimate, however, I feel that Smash 6's base game is the only real opportunity for Iori to be added, since it'd be hard to justify a second SNK fighter being in a Challenger Pack if Terry retains most or all of his content in the next game.

The last of the base game third-parties is someone I consider to be another elephant in the room that materialized thanks to the Ultimate speculation community; the character in question being Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa. Hayabusa is certainly a bandwagon pick in origin--the fake 5chan leak that circulated at the beginning of 2019 is what put Hayabusa on the mind of a lot of speculators, especially since the leak would take a good six or so months to be hard deconfirmed thanks to Banjo's inclusion and the presence of multiple Heroes besides Erdrick. However, despite the 5chan leak fading away, Ryu Hayabusa continued to be a common name anyway, partially thanks to also being in a "Google leak" that also lasted a while before getting shot down, and more importantly, because of rampant rumors indicating that Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo would collaborate in some form regarding Smash (this turned out to be Byleth from the KT-developed Three Houses getting in, along with Hyrule Warriors spirits getting added later on). Hayabusa remained a frequent name in speculation, and while most of this was due to vague rumors and bogus leaks getting spread around, I feel that any kind of publicity for a character is good publicity when it comes to Smash. However, what cinches it for me is Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo's aforementioned relationship; the company not only managed to help develop a mainline Fire Emblem title, but is also working on its fourth Warriors crossover game (sixth if you consider the 3DS and Switch versions of Hyrule Warriors to be their own games) with Nintendo. Add this onto Ryu's decently-healthy presence on Nintendo platforms; he got his start with a trilogy of NES games, got a Game Boy title, a SNES compilation, a DS game, an appearance on the 3DS thanks to Dead or Alive Dimensions (which featured a Metroid crossover stage!), and now a Switch compilation of the "reboot" Ninja Gaiden trilogy. These three elements are what I feel to be the perfect storm for Ryu Hayabusa to be the Simon Belmont of Smash 6's newcomers.

Since I imagine that Smash 6 will go with Smash 4's mentality of "Bring back as many characters as possible without going out of our way to do so either", it's logical to assume that a couple of fan favorites will have to be excluded from the base game. I can see Wolf returning as DLC, not unlike what happened to Mewtwo in Smash 4. A lesser example here would be Greninja. While Greninja is certainly a popular Pokemon if official ranking polls are to be believed, Pokemon X and Y will be over a decade old by the time Smash 6 comes around, and I think it'll be hard to justify keeping Greninja as a base game character. However, I feel that it will still be just popular enough to come back as DLC, being a Pokemon character and all.

There are two characters that I would like to have return in the base game, but I feel that removing "Everyone is Here" will inevitably send these characters into the DLC realm, both for the same reason. Sephiroth and Sora were two of the biggest bombshell reveals during Ultimate's DLC cycle, and knowing Square-Enix and Disney, they won't have the characters completely cut in the next Smash (assuming Nintendo doesn't royally piss off either of them), but they'll probably hold them hostage as DLC again, and probably for a bit of a higher price compared to 1st party veteran DLC. The companies know that they got a lot of heads to turn when these characters got added to Smash, and if they aren't obliged to conform to the "everyone returns" gimmick this time around, they'll jump on the opportunity to capitalize on these two fighters again. Though I'll say this: If Sora is somehow a base game character in the next Smash, I will watch an entire summary of Kingdom Hearts's plot, mark my words.

Now we're moving onto the DLC newcomers proper here. When you look at Smash's current roster, one of the biggest uncomfortable truths begins to stick out; despite being the only third-party character with a perfect attendance so far, Sonic has gone three games without having a second character, and it'd look pretty ugly if he goes a fourth game solo as well. I've come to the conclusion that the prime candidate for the second Sonic character is none other than Dr. Eggman. Sure, Shadow and Knuckles would be easier to develop, but out of all of Sonic's rivals and adversaries, I feel that his most common enemy and main antagonist of the series deserves the spot over anyone else. Besides being nearly omnipresent in the series, Eggman's popularity within the Sonic fandom has been consistently high throughout the series's history, to the point where I'd argue that he's been more consistently popular than Sonic himself (let alone his other friends) within the fandom at large. However, I imagine that Eggman would be one of the more complex characters to make, and as a result, I think he is best suited as a DLC fighter.

It's a no-brainer to assume that some of the DLC for Smash 6 will be first-party newcomers, and it's also a no-brainer to assume that Xenoblade 3 will get representation in Smash 6. That's why it was very easy for me to put Noah on the roster. However, as with the case of Pyra and Mythra in Ultimate, I imagine that Xenoblade 3 is going to miss the bus for any significant base game representation, and will have to wait for DLC to get anything meaningful here. If any interviews about Smash 6's base game express disappointment that they couldn't get Xenoblade 3 content in there, then I'd consider that to be a very good sign for their chances as DLC.

During Kazuya's presentation, Sakurai noted that the Mii Costumes revealed in Kazuya's wave were characters that "a lot of people have been wanting...as standalone fighters". Among the four characters shown as costumes during the presentation, I felt that Dante had the most going for him, being a popular Capcom request that persisted for most of Ultimate's speculation cycle. While him being from an M-rated series is a bit of a hurdle, I feel that most of Dante's competition has even bigger hoops to jump through; Resident Evil couldn't get a costume and is arguably more mature in content than DMC, Monster Hunter has the problem of the devteam not liking to use the Hunters in crossovers, and while Phoenix Wright could get that "turnabout" victory if Ace Attorney 7 really is on the horizon, I still feel he may be a hard sell. Between being a popular request that got acknowledged by the devs and having an edge over most of his Capcom peers via process of elimination, I feel that Dante has a good shot at Smash 6's DLC.

Over the course of Ultimate's DLC, Nintendo managed to work their way down the Square-Enix food chain of popular character requests, adding Dragon Quest representation, a second FF7 character, and Kingdom Hearts's Sora. At this point, the one remaining Square character that stands out to me as missing from Smash, is Crono from Chrono Trigger. Sure, Chrono Trigger isn't some mega-hit series like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, but to me, it doesn't matter that much when Chrono Trigger as a game is arguably one of the most popular one-off JRPGs ever (I am aware that Chrono Cross exists, but it's largely disconnected from Trigger and is rather obscure in comparison). This achievement is particularly notable since the game was a mid-90s release, during the height of JRPGs coming out left and right, especially in their home country. While I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of Chrono Trigger as a game, I have seen how it has touched the hearts of a lot of people who've played it, and the fact that people still constantly discuss the game decades after its release says a lot, especially in comparison to the latest Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games getting left behind whenever a newer installment comes out. To me, Crono is the Banjo-Kazooie of RPG characters; they aren't the most relevant in today's gaming climate, but their games are undeniably interwoven in both Nintendo culture, and classic gaming culture as a whole.

I've seen some hot debate here about the inclusion of Doomguy in Smash 6. As you can see, I'm personally pro-Doomguy myself, and it's for a similar set of reasons as to why I'm pro-Hayabusa. Doomguy was the center of speculation for a long time thanks to leaks and rumors propping him up, and the momentum for the character only continued with every mainline Doom title getting ported to the Switch, along with Doom Eternal hype being in full swing both before and after its early 2020 release. In fact, unlike Hayabusa, Doomguy's demand was notable enough to warrant a special Mii Costume in Sora's presentation, which I feel is a sign of the seeds being planted for a future inclusion in Smash 6. Some have argued that Doom's FPS nature makes it a hard sell for Smash, but I argue that the fantastical nature of some of the weapons makes it not an impossibility, along with the fact that there are a decent number of close-combat options in the series that I feel can quell the fears of Doomguy being nothing but a toxic projectile camper. As for the ultraviolence concerns, I wholeheartedly believe that they can convey Doomguy's brutality without needing a ratings bump--just look at how Ridley is portrayed, especially considering one of his moves is him clearly skewering opponents with his sharp tail. Some have pointed to putting Master Chief over Doomguy, but if Banjo and Steve have taught me anything, the more likely scenario is that both characters would get in. Microsoft has proven to be both very buddy-buddy with Nintendo, and very receptive to fan demand, so I imagine that Doomguy is in very good hands here.

Up next are the last few placeholder slots I put on here. I can pretty much kill two birds with one stone by talking about both the Fire Emblem character and Atlus character placeholders here. For the former, Sakurai has gone on record saying that he's reserved slots for both Pokemon and Fire Emblem in each game so far, and I imagine that Smash 6 will be no different. Of course, I feel that the inevitable Fire Emblem character will be DLC again, considering we haven't seen anything about what the next mainline FE will be like (and we probably won't for quite some time), compared to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet already being shown and slated for this year.
As for the Atlus placeholder, I imagine that Atlus will want to cycle out Joker in favor of the protagonist from whatever future game they'll be promoting at that time, whether that be Persona 6 or some other project of theirs. Though admittedly, I have the nagging feeling that I can't rule out the possibility of Atlus wanting to stretch out Persona 5 as long as humanly possible, either.

The final placeholder here is a second Microsoft DLC character. As I mentioned above, Microsoft has been very generous with Nintendo in terms of what they've added to Ultimate, so I imagine it isn't too farfetched to see them put in two more DLC characters in Smash 6. The thing is, however, is that once Microsoft finalizes their buyout of ActiBlizz, they'll have two big console mascot names under their belt: Master Chief, and Crash Bandicoot. There are cases to be made about both; the former is Microsoft's biggest name, and one of the biggest names in FPS gaming to boot. The latter was PlayStation's unofficial mascot, and was a big name in Ultimate speculation even to the bitter end. It's really tough to say which one of them would be more likely to get in, if either of them even had the chance. The former has to potentially share space with Doomguy when it comes to Microsoft-owned potential Smash inclusions, while the latter was owned by a company that got in a lot of hot water over the past year, to the point where Nintendo (among other companies) released a PR message about it, and I imagine that Microsoft will flush out Activision's employees once they finalize their purchase of the company. If anything advantageous comes out for either of these characters, I'll probably update my prediction to reflect it, but for now I consider this situation to be a complete toss-up.

For the last DLC character, I pondered to myself this: "What would be a character that would both be a perfect note to close out the next Smash game on, and would be relevant by the time we reach that point (which is probably 5-6 years from now)?" Surprisingly, the potential answer came to me quickly.
Toby Fox is probably one of the few non-Nintendo alumni that has managed to get really close with Sakurai and Nintendo as a whole, and I suspect that he owes a lot of this to being inspired by a lot of Nintendo's own games when making his own content. As a result, it's no surprise that Undertale managed to resonate with a lot of people worldwide who had a similar gaming history as Toby, and it's even less of a surprise that Deltarune has kept up that momentum afterwards. Toby Fox is clearly good friends with a lot of other game devs, including Nintendo's staff and Sakurai, and I feel that as a result, Sakurai would be more than willing to add Kris from Deltarune in the next Smash to honor Toby's passion projects.
However, I feel there is one important condition here. As of this writing, Deltarune only has two out of a visible seven chapters complete. It's an episodic RPG game. And because of this, I feel that neither Sakurai nor Toby Fox will actually want to put Deltarune content in Smash until the game is complete, or VERY close to completion (as in "Sakurai can put in content that teases the last chapter(s) of the game because the character releases like a couple of weeks beforehand" very close). To put it simply, I think Kris has a likely chance at being the very last (if not one of the very last) DLC character in Smash 6, due to the circumstances revolving around his game and developer. I'd be at the very least shocked if absolutely nothing from the game gets added, to be honest.

Please let me know what you think about my choices and reasoning here. I look forward to your thoughts and critique.
Can't help but notice there are no fan-favorite first-party characters other than the revived IP possibly being Isaac. For DLC that might check out, but for the entire selection of newcomers, that seems unlikely.
 

Yamat08

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
312
I think Fogbadge was referring to when RARE was still with Nintendo. I realize that the properties and characters have completely separate ownership since RARE’s acquisition by Microsoft but were the properties co-owned before that point? All I know is that Nintendo owned nearly half the stock in RARE but copyright and IP ownership legality was always something I never completely followed.

I had always assumed that RARE and Nintendo’s relationship back then was roughly similar to Nintendo’s relationship with the Pokémon Company today. They are technically separate companies but Nintendo has partial ownership and both companies are often thought of as Nintendo despite being their own thing.
As I recall, Nintendo published the majority of Rare's games (or maybe all of them) after they came on board with Donkey Kong Country, so they must've bought partial stock in them around that time. Up until then, they were just another third-party publisher, which is why things like Battletoads and Snake Rattle 'N Roll could also be on the Genesis.

There is one small thing that gives me some hope in getting more RARE characters in Smash in future installments even if it might be an insignificant detail. That would be Banjo’s intro trailer and splash screen. Sakurai seemed to go out of his way to reference RARE as a company in Banjo’s trailer and his intro even says “Raring to go!”. It’s true that this may not end up meaning much but I think it does show that a lot of people personally care about the company and Sakurai acknowledges that. I don’t recall any other third party guest going that far to reference the company they came from in their intro trailer.
Terry says hi.

That’s fair. I feel like I probably just talk about them too often and I imagine some people are probably getting sick of me bringing them up by now lol.
Being honest, yes, I am kinda sick of it. Mainly because you haven't been shutting up about Battletoads ever since the Bethesda acquisition happened.
 

DarthEnderX

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This is basically the same idea I have for their moveset.

The only difference is the Down Special. I say something like the Gleam ability from Neon, where after a dodge, the player can follow up with three different attacks (flying knee, back elbow, or a powerful uppercut).
Still a poor man's Kunio & Riki!

Just take your pick of moves!
Born to Smash!
 
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Diddy Kong

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Thanks, I’m really glad I was able to show people why I feel like the Battletoads are such a great fit for Smash. I worked really hard on that moveset and have thought about the characters being in Smash for years so it really means a lot to see that you appreciated it.

Something I neglected to mention in that post that makes me want the Battletoads even more is that it was the first game that really kicked off RARE’s rise in popularity and eventual relationship with Nintendo. RARE made games before that that but they were mostly smaller games and nothing really gained huge mainstream appeal until the Battletoads. The Battletoads were such a huge success at the time that Nintendo took notice and eventually formed a partnership with RARE leading to amazing games like Donkey Kong Country. It’s crazy to think that without Battletoads, modern DK wouldn’t exist in his current form and Diddy, Dixie, K. Rool, and others wouldn’t exist at all.

Here’s a bit of trivia, did you know the artist that created the Battletoads is the same person that made every modern DK character from DKC? David Wise is also the composer for all Battletoads games other than the reboot as well as many songs in DKC 1 and the entirety of DKC 2 as well as Diddy Kong Racing.
That's amazing ! I could even see some slight similarities in the facial expressions of the Battletoads and DK, so it's not something I didn't notice. So Battletoads are the reasons we have modern DK at all, they're even more of a legacy than I imagined.

Also weren't the Kremlings originally designed to be enemies for the Battletoads? It would be amazing to see them face K.Rool in Smash therefore.

Damn I feel like I missed out a lot of great Rare titles ...
 

fogbadge

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After some delay, I have finally finished both my Smash 6 prediction roster, and a little write-up for it as well!

Here is the image below. Echo fighters are stacked, and a purple background on a character indicates that they are DLC.



-Dark Samus, Daisy, Dark Pit, and Ken return from Ultimate.

-Richter has turned into being extra alts for Simon. Trevor from Castlevania III and Julius from Aria of Sorrow join him as further alts for Simon, and the entire slot is referred to as "Belmont" in a similar vein to the Hero.

-Funky Kong is added as a Donkey Kong echo. Functionally, Funky Kong retains most of DK's moveset, with two important differences; firstly, Funky trades some of DK's attack power in favor of being slightly faster than him, and secondly, whenever Funky is in midair, a surfboard (colored to match the player using him) materializes below him. While the surfboard is normally just a slightly extended hurtbox that deals less damage to Funky compared to hitting him directly, it affects three of his moves; his down air is no longer a spike, instead having him flip his surfboard below him. His neutral air and up special move differ from Donkey Kong's in a more important way, however; instead of Funky Kong spinning himself for these moves, he spins his surfboard instead, similar to his glide animation from Tropical Freeze. While this leaves Funky himself much more vulnerable for both moves, it becomes a good tool for using against opponents approaching from below, and the up special not only has more distance than DK's version, but the last hit of the surfboard from this move can spike players if caught in it. As a last note, if Funky uses his up special on the ground, he just spins himself on the ground like DK does, since there's no surfboard to spin on when grounded.

-Proto Man is added as a Mega Man echo. Proto Man is essentially a fully-realized version of the Custom Moves that Mega Man had in Smash 4, with some of his A moves being changed as well. In terms of special moves, Proto Man uses the "3" variants of Mega Man's special moves from Smash 4; Shadow Blade for the neutral special, Danger Wrap for the side special, Plant Barrier for the down special, and Beat for the up special. Other moveset replacements include (but aren't limited to) Water Wave replacing Flame Blast as a down smash, Solar Blaze replacing Spark Shot as an up smash, Gyro Attack replacing Air Shooter as an up aerial, Thunder Claw replacing Flame Sword as a forward aerial, and Laser Trident replacing Hard Knuckle as a down aerial. Finally, Proto Man would have his trademark shield, which can block projectiles while standing still, like with the Links and Hero.

-Rock Howard is added as a Terry echo. Rock shares a decent number of Terry's basic moves, but his Howard lineage and own personal mixups also provide some significant differences from Terry's playstyle; in terms of special moves, the Power Wave neutral special is replaced with the functionally-similar Reppuken, which becomes the Double Reppuken if held down. Power Dunk is replaced with Rage Run, which can either have Rock jump up and dunk downwards if tapped (Type "Dunk"), or instead have him sidestep past the opponent to catch them offguard (Type "Shift"). Rock dashes before doing either technique, so there is a tiny bit of startup lag involved in both moves. Burning Knuckle is replaced with the functionally-similar Hard Edge. Crack Shoot, however, is replaced with Crack Counter Jou-Dan; it is a slightly more powerful version of Terry's Crack Shoot, with the tradeoff being that Rock can only activate it if he is hit during the pose he makes when the move is inputted. Finally, Rising Tackle is unchanged from Terry's version of the move.
As for the special command input moves available when Rock reaches 100% or more, Power Geyser and Buster Wolf are replaced with Raging Storm (a technique inherited from Geese) and Shine Knuckle, respectively. For Rock's Final Smash, he uses the Neo Deadly Rave, another technique that Geese Howard has used as well.
I mainly chose Rock as a third new Echo because the fighting game representation in Smash really grew on me, and I thought it would be interesting to include an Echo Fighter who would very much highlight the "similar but different" nature that I feel more Echoes should be like.

Unlike the Echo Fighters section, I won't really go into potential mechanics for the newcomers, with maybe a couple of exceptions. Instead, I mainly intend to explain my reasoning for each of the inclusions I have made here; the same will apply to the DLC Fighters section. With that out of the way, let's begin with the base game newcomers.

-To start things off, we have the Octolings, specifically the protagonist versions first appearing in Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion DLC. Probably one of the safest guesses for Smash 6, though I decided to be a bit more interesting here by predicting that they will be an Isabelle-esque semi-clone to the Inklings instead of just being their Echo Fighter. They'd keep the same basic framework as the Inklings, including the whole Ink mechanic, but their weapon loadout for their moveset would be different in order to cover some of the bases that the Inkling moveset did not. Potential for a different moveset aside, considering that Splatoon has quickly made a name for itself and is already on its third installment, I feel it would be nonsensical for the Octolings to be an Echo while Isabelle remained her own character slot.

-At this point, I feel that the Zelda series needs some sort of significant shakeup, and adding Impa to its ranks while retiring Sheik feels significant enough. Although I'm not the most knowledgeable about Zelda as a series, I am aware of some of the recurring cast members throughout the franchise besides the Triforce wielders. Ultimately, it boiled down to either Impa or Tingle, and I chose Impa simply because the character has been around for longer, and because of the Hyrule Warriors sub-series giving us not just one, but two versions of her that I feel are fit for fighting; the Ocarina version of her as seen in the original Hyrule Warriors, and the version of her that appears in Age of Calamity. I feel that either of these versions of her could get in, though I chose the version featured in the original Warriors for the image out of convenience. Either way, Impa is undoubtedly an important recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and I felt it would make sense to have her replace Sheik, who was a one-off alter-ego character for Zelda that I feel only stayed around for so long in Smash's roster for legacy reasons.

-Alongside Impa is another addition to Zelda at the expense of another character, that being the Toy Link featured in the Link's Awakening remake replacing Toon Link. To a lot of you, this is probably a very controversial replacement, and that's because at this point, it still kind of is. This was the "interchangable character" I mentioned prior; I put Toy Link in as a prediction that a future Zelda title will reuse the art style the Awakening remake used. Specifically, I made this choice under the assumption that the Oracle games will get remade at some point in the forseeable future, thus using the toy diorama art style again. However, I cannot deny the possibility that the Link's Awakening remake was a one time thing regardless of how well it did, and if we don't see any meaningful return of its toy diorama style in the Zelda series when the next Smash comes around, then I very much plan to give Toon Link's place in the roster back and get rid of "Toy Link". In short, I feel that Toon and Toy Link are interchangable here currently, and if you prefer one over the other, you can assume that one is who gets in here.

==WARNING: METROID DREAD SPOILERS BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED, SCROLL PAST THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH.==

This next choice could be a case of counting ravens before they hatch, but I feel that Raven Beak is a worthy contender among Nintendo's first parties for Smash 6. While the character has only appeared in Samus Returns's ending and Metroid Dread, it's hard to overstate the impact on the entire Metroid saga that Raven Beak has left, from his extermination of the Thoha race being indirectly responsible for the events of nearly every Metroid title leading up to Dread, to him being one of the Chozo gene donors for Samus and thus being responsible for her enhanced combat prowess and instincts, a fact that Raven Beak taunts her with near the end of Dread. This aformentioned gene donation also means to me that Raven Beak would be an ideal Smash fighter--the way I see it, he would be the Ganondorf to Samus's Captain Falcon, and his X Parasite mutation at the end of Dread would make for the perfect Final Smash for him as well. Some people have mentioned the EMMI as a fighter from Dread, but I feel that they are too unorthodox compared to Raven Beak; Besides the fact that the EMMI are a group of robots instead of a single entity like the SA-X and Dark Samus before it, they also have various intentionally-overpowered aspects to them that would be impossible to translate well to Smash, between their nigh-destructible armor, their ability to traverse walls and ceilings freely, and especially the instant-kill needle jab that they do if they catch Samus. All in all, while I don't think Dread is automatically entitled to a representative, it is still a landmark game in Metroid's history critically and commercially, and Raven Beak has proven to be a break-out villain in his own right--I'd argue he's the most notable and important out of Metroid's one-shot antagonists.

==SPOILERS END HERE.==

We've reached the first of a good few placeholder slots, this one being a Pokemon from the upcoming Scarlet and Violet titles. At this point in time, I can't really make any proper guesses as to which Pokemon could make the cut since we only know about the initial starters, but if I had to make any sort of bet, I'd wager that Sprigatito's final evolution (whatever it looks like) will probably be the one picked, going off the last two Pokemon newcomers being the other two starter types. Other than that, not too much to say here for now.

This other placeholder here is a bit more of a risky guess, but I feel that at least one older Nintendo series will get a fresh breath of life here in Smash 6. As for the three characters I picked to represent this placeholder...
Andy is here because of the upcoming Advance Wars remake and because of Advance Wars being a popular Brawl-era request. If Reboot Camp proves to be a successful revival, then I could see one of its characters squeezing in as a last-minute addition.
Isaac is here due to being a longer-lasting first party request, and because of the notable glowup his Assist Trophy got when it returned for Ultimate. The only thing that makes Isaac uncertain here is because his series has been dormant since the DS era.
Starfy is admittedly a personal pick of mine, but having five games within the span of 6-7 years is honestly still an incredible feat if you ask me, even if only the last one came out worldwide. Unfortunately, due to Starfy's momentum stopping dead in its tracks with that fifth game, it's a hard sell unless his older games get remade in the near future, but even then, I have the strong feeling that Sakurai very much disagrees with the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" when it comes to characters who look like Kirby...
A honorable mention here is the Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character); this series is probably the most fit out of all the ones I've mentioned here, but being barred from Smash 4 and not even given the time of day for Ultimate (outside of Grinch) makes me question if they just can't find a satisfactory way to implement Rhythm Heaven into a Smash fighter.

Originally, I also had a placeholder for a "future Nintendo IP" on the roster, but remembering that Nintendo bought the rights to Astral Chain made me realize that Akira/Officer Howard has now become a strong contender for Smash 6. Smash isn't unfamiliar with Platinum-developed games thanks to Bayonetta's inclusion, and with the company's continued relationship with Nintendo, I imagine that Howard being included in Smash 6 would be a good relationship sweetener after Nintendo bought Astral Chain as an IP. I can't comment much more about this since I'm not too familiar with Astral Chain as a video game, other than that I also considered the Ring Fit protagonists as a recent Nintendo fighter, but I felt that Howard would bring much more to the table even if Ring Fit is popular in its own right, and also because I feel that they wouldn't want to replace the Wii Fit Trainer just yet.

The last of the first-party niches I needed to fill was the obligatory joke/retro character. I feel that after Piranha Plant's mixed reception, the next suprise character will go back to referencing Nintendo's legacy hardware. I decided that the Famicom Disk System would be a good target for this, and as a result I added Diskun to the roster. I envisioned this character's moveset as basically being Mr. Game & Watch's basic concept, applied to Nintendo games released on the Disk System. Luckily, since a lot of earlier Famicom titles were ported to the Disk System later on, this opens up more material for such a moveset. I didn't really write down any specific concepts, with the exception of an idea for a special grabbing mechanic; like with Donkey Kong, if Diskun grabs someone and taps forward or backward on the control stick, they'll start carrying the character over their head and are granted limited movement while the character is still in their grasp. Here, it would function like holding an item in Super Mario Bros. 2 (or should I say...Doki Doki Panic?), where Diskun can move left, move right, or jump like Mario/Imajin does in that game while holding an object. Pressing A makes Diskun toss the grabbed character at a downwards arc like how the player throws items in Mario 2/Doki Doki Panic, and the thrown character can potentially be knocked into another fighter for decent damage. Honestly, this may be a fighter I'll try and make a full moveset for in the future.

When it comes to third-party newcomers in Smash 6, for my money the biggest elephant in the room that needs to be addressed here is Bomberman from his eponymous series. I feel that Bomberman certainly got his foot in the door with Ultimate; his Assist Trophy is one of the more complex-functioning ones, said Assist got special highlight during Ultimate's E3 2018 presentation, and later on Bomberman got a full-body Mii Costume that even changed color depending on the Mii's preferred color. I can't help but feel that Sakurai wanted to have Bomberman playable at first, but putting in all of the content for Castlevania ended up taking major priority instead when it came to Ultimate's development. Even if Bomberman hasn't been too active outside of Super R and its Online mode, the series has a staggering legacy, with it being present on virtually every game platform that's been on the market since 1983, and the series being able to directly collaborate with one of Nintendo's properties (the US version of Bomberman GB that turned the game into a Wario crossover) is an impressive feat among third-party franchises. I can't help but feel that Bomberman will get his proper due in Smash 6.

Be warned as my bias could potentially be showing here with this next pick, but I have a gut feeling that Puyo Puyo's Arle Nadja will be the next character owned by Sega to get in Smash. When you look at Sega's current top franchises, while Sonic obviously takes the number 1 spot, Puyo Puyo is actually not too far behind, at least on the Japan side of things. And this is for good reason; ever since its 1991 inception, Puyo has been a frequent-flying series in its homeland, having made appearances on every major platform in some form except Nintendo's ill-fated Virtual Boy. The competitive arcade outings in the early 90s are what I feel started the whole competitive puzzle game craze in the first place; if you've ever played games in the past like Magical Drop, Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack, Panic Bomber, and Puzzle Fighter, chances are that they all owe their existence to Puyo Puyo kickstarting the trend of two-player head-to-head puzzle games, all the way back in 1992. Besides the legacy of the games themselves, the cast has also gotten some popularity in their own right, especially considering older mainstays like Arle and Carbuncle have appeared in the vast majority of the franchise's works, extending to the original dungeon-crawling Mado Monogatari series that Puyo spun off from. Even after Sega bought the rights to the series and introduced a new cast of characters in Puyo Puyo Fever, Arle and Carbuncle remained present in every title, and starting with the anniversary games, other classic Compile-era characters made their return as well. Even 30 years on, Arle and Carbuncle remain the de facto mascots and faces of this Japan-popular franchise, and ever since the series finally breached international waters with the 2017 rerelease of Puyo Puyo Tetris, Arle has started making a name for herself in Western communities as well, to the point where I'd argue that she was the one non-Sonic Sega character that popped up the most in Ultimate's speculation, to the point where, in an interview held during Ultimate's DLC cycle, the current Puyo series producer expressed interest in seeing Arle being included in a Smash title. To sum things up, between the series's popularity in its home country, its consistent presence on Nintendo platforms, and having a good amount of presence in Smash speculation, I feel that Arle is prime for a spot in Smash 6.

Capcom was certainly not shy about pouring on content in Smash Ultimate, and it's an easy assumption that it will be the same case for Smash 6. Since Street Fighter got its turn at a new character in Ultimate, I think Mega Man will get its share next installment. And among Mega Man's cast, I feel that Zero from the Mega Man X subseries is the prime candidate for inclusion. Zero is undoubtedly a popular character in his own right, both with fans and within Capcom as well, having gotten his own line of subseries, being revived repeatedly in the X series out of popular demand, and even having been slated to be X himself at one point in X1's development. You could probably make a good argument that Zero is more popular than the Blue Bomber himself, or at least much more popular than X. Besides Zero's popularity, there's also the case of his Assist Trophy in Ultimate, being one of the Assists that's the closest to being a full fighter in functionality (likely owing to his aforementioned popularity). Turning Zero from an Assist Trophy to a full fighter would be an easy crowd pleaser for Smash 6, and would also open the opportunity for one of Mega Man's most important subseries to get proper representation next time around. Some people may question me putting him over X, but as Kazuya and the Aegis Blades have demonstrated, just because Zero isn't the titular Mega Man X, doesn't mean that he isn't a main character in that series anyway.

SNK was very generous with content when it came to Terry Bogard's DLC, and I imagine that as with Capcom, they'll be more than cooperative during Smash 6's development. Iori Yagami is almost a same-song-and-dance ordeal as with Zero; an incredibly popular character within his own series, and popular in his own right as an SNK icon despite not being the initial main protagonist of his series. Though what gave him the edge over Kyo for me, was Sakurai's comments about him during his Terry presentation, stating that he considered him his favorite character within the King of Fighters series. To me, that comment pretty much means "If I get to add someone from The King of Fighters proper, he's getting in without a second thought about it." Considering that Terry already got the lion's share of SNK content in Ultimate, however, I feel that Smash 6's base game is the only real opportunity for Iori to be added, since it'd be hard to justify a second SNK fighter being in a Challenger Pack if Terry retains most or all of his content in the next game.

The last of the base game third-parties is someone I consider to be another elephant in the room that materialized thanks to the Ultimate speculation community; the character in question being Ninja Gaiden's Ryu Hayabusa. Hayabusa is certainly a bandwagon pick in origin--the fake 5chan leak that circulated at the beginning of 2019 is what put Hayabusa on the mind of a lot of speculators, especially since the leak would take a good six or so months to be hard deconfirmed thanks to Banjo's inclusion and the presence of multiple Heroes besides Erdrick. However, despite the 5chan leak fading away, Ryu Hayabusa continued to be a common name anyway, partially thanks to also being in a "Google leak" that also lasted a while before getting shot down, and more importantly, because of rampant rumors indicating that Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo would collaborate in some form regarding Smash (this turned out to be Byleth from the KT-developed Three Houses getting in, along with Hyrule Warriors spirits getting added later on). Hayabusa remained a frequent name in speculation, and while most of this was due to vague rumors and bogus leaks getting spread around, I feel that any kind of publicity for a character is good publicity when it comes to Smash. However, what cinches it for me is Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo's aforementioned relationship; the company not only managed to help develop a mainline Fire Emblem title, but is also working on its fourth Warriors crossover game (sixth if you consider the 3DS and Switch versions of Hyrule Warriors to be their own games) with Nintendo. Add this onto Ryu's decently-healthy presence on Nintendo platforms; he got his start with a trilogy of NES games, got a Game Boy title, a SNES compilation, a DS game, an appearance on the 3DS thanks to Dead or Alive Dimensions (which featured a Metroid crossover stage!), and now a Switch compilation of the "reboot" Ninja Gaiden trilogy. These three elements are what I feel to be the perfect storm for Ryu Hayabusa to be the Simon Belmont of Smash 6's newcomers.

Since I imagine that Smash 6 will go with Smash 4's mentality of "Bring back as many characters as possible without going out of our way to do so either", it's logical to assume that a couple of fan favorites will have to be excluded from the base game. I can see Wolf returning as DLC, not unlike what happened to Mewtwo in Smash 4. A lesser example here would be Greninja. While Greninja is certainly a popular Pokemon if official ranking polls are to be believed, Pokemon X and Y will be over a decade old by the time Smash 6 comes around, and I think it'll be hard to justify keeping Greninja as a base game character. However, I feel that it will still be just popular enough to come back as DLC, being a Pokemon character and all.

There are two characters that I would like to have return in the base game, but I feel that removing "Everyone is Here" will inevitably send these characters into the DLC realm, both for the same reason. Sephiroth and Sora were two of the biggest bombshell reveals during Ultimate's DLC cycle, and knowing Square-Enix and Disney, they won't have the characters completely cut in the next Smash (assuming Nintendo doesn't royally piss off either of them), but they'll probably hold them hostage as DLC again, and probably for a bit of a higher price compared to 1st party veteran DLC. The companies know that they got a lot of heads to turn when these characters got added to Smash, and if they aren't obliged to conform to the "everyone returns" gimmick this time around, they'll jump on the opportunity to capitalize on these two fighters again. Though I'll say this: If Sora is somehow a base game character in the next Smash, I will watch an entire summary of Kingdom Hearts's plot, mark my words.

Now we're moving onto the DLC newcomers proper here. When you look at Smash's current roster, one of the biggest uncomfortable truths begins to stick out; despite being the only third-party character with a perfect attendance so far, Sonic has gone three games without having a second character, and it'd look pretty ugly if he goes a fourth game solo as well. I've come to the conclusion that the prime candidate for the second Sonic character is none other than Dr. Eggman. Sure, Shadow and Knuckles would be easier to develop, but out of all of Sonic's rivals and adversaries, I feel that his most common enemy and main antagonist of the series deserves the spot over anyone else. Besides being nearly omnipresent in the series, Eggman's popularity within the Sonic fandom has been consistently high throughout the series's history, to the point where I'd argue that he's been more consistently popular than Sonic himself (let alone his other friends) within the fandom at large. However, I imagine that Eggman would be one of the more complex characters to make, and as a result, I think he is best suited as a DLC fighter.

It's a no-brainer to assume that some of the DLC for Smash 6 will be first-party newcomers, and it's also a no-brainer to assume that Xenoblade 3 will get representation in Smash 6. That's why it was very easy for me to put Noah on the roster. However, as with the case of Pyra and Mythra in Ultimate, I imagine that Xenoblade 3 is going to miss the bus for any significant base game representation, and will have to wait for DLC to get anything meaningful here. If any interviews about Smash 6's base game express disappointment that they couldn't get Xenoblade 3 content in there, then I'd consider that to be a very good sign for their chances as DLC.

During Kazuya's presentation, Sakurai noted that the Mii Costumes revealed in Kazuya's wave were characters that "a lot of people have been wanting...as standalone fighters". Among the four characters shown as costumes during the presentation, I felt that Dante had the most going for him, being a popular Capcom request that persisted for most of Ultimate's speculation cycle. While him being from an M-rated series is a bit of a hurdle, I feel that most of Dante's competition has even bigger hoops to jump through; Resident Evil couldn't get a costume and is arguably more mature in content than DMC, Monster Hunter has the problem of the devteam not liking to use the Hunters in crossovers, and while Phoenix Wright could get that "turnabout" victory if Ace Attorney 7 really is on the horizon, I still feel he may be a hard sell. Between being a popular request that got acknowledged by the devs and having an edge over most of his Capcom peers via process of elimination, I feel that Dante has a good shot at Smash 6's DLC.

Over the course of Ultimate's DLC, Nintendo managed to work their way down the Square-Enix food chain of popular character requests, adding Dragon Quest representation, a second FF7 character, and Kingdom Hearts's Sora. At this point, the one remaining Square character that stands out to me as missing from Smash, is Crono from Chrono Trigger. Sure, Chrono Trigger isn't some mega-hit series like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, but to me, it doesn't matter that much when Chrono Trigger as a game is arguably one of the most popular one-off JRPGs ever (I am aware that Chrono Cross exists, but it's largely disconnected from Trigger and is rather obscure in comparison). This achievement is particularly notable since the game was a mid-90s release, during the height of JRPGs coming out left and right, especially in their home country. While I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of Chrono Trigger as a game, I have seen how it has touched the hearts of a lot of people who've played it, and the fact that people still constantly discuss the game decades after its release says a lot, especially in comparison to the latest Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games getting left behind whenever a newer installment comes out. To me, Crono is the Banjo-Kazooie of RPG characters; they aren't the most relevant in today's gaming climate, but their games are undeniably interwoven in both Nintendo culture, and classic gaming culture as a whole.

I've seen some hot debate here about the inclusion of Doomguy in Smash 6. As you can see, I'm personally pro-Doomguy myself, and it's for a similar set of reasons as to why I'm pro-Hayabusa. Doomguy was the center of speculation for a long time thanks to leaks and rumors propping him up, and the momentum for the character only continued with every mainline Doom title getting ported to the Switch, along with Doom Eternal hype being in full swing both before and after its early 2020 release. In fact, unlike Hayabusa, Doomguy's demand was notable enough to warrant a special Mii Costume in Sora's presentation, which I feel is a sign of the seeds being planted for a future inclusion in Smash 6. Some have argued that Doom's FPS nature makes it a hard sell for Smash, but I argue that the fantastical nature of some of the weapons makes it not an impossibility, along with the fact that there are a decent number of close-combat options in the series that I feel can quell the fears of Doomguy being nothing but a toxic projectile camper. As for the ultraviolence concerns, I wholeheartedly believe that they can convey Doomguy's brutality without needing a ratings bump--just look at how Ridley is portrayed, especially considering one of his moves is him clearly skewering opponents with his sharp tail. Some have pointed to putting Master Chief over Doomguy, but if Banjo and Steve have taught me anything, the more likely scenario is that both characters would get in. Microsoft has proven to be both very buddy-buddy with Nintendo, and very receptive to fan demand, so I imagine that Doomguy is in very good hands here.

Up next are the last few placeholder slots I put on here. I can pretty much kill two birds with one stone by talking about both the Fire Emblem character and Atlus character placeholders here. For the former, Sakurai has gone on record saying that he's reserved slots for both Pokemon and Fire Emblem in each game so far, and I imagine that Smash 6 will be no different. Of course, I feel that the inevitable Fire Emblem character will be DLC again, considering we haven't seen anything about what the next mainline FE will be like (and we probably won't for quite some time), compared to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet already being shown and slated for this year.
As for the Atlus placeholder, I imagine that Atlus will want to cycle out Joker in favor of the protagonist from whatever future game they'll be promoting at that time, whether that be Persona 6 or some other project of theirs. Though admittedly, I have the nagging feeling that I can't rule out the possibility of Atlus wanting to stretch out Persona 5 as long as humanly possible, either.

The final placeholder here is a second Microsoft DLC character. As I mentioned above, Microsoft has been very generous with Nintendo in terms of what they've added to Ultimate, so I imagine it isn't too farfetched to see them put in two more DLC characters in Smash 6. The thing is, however, is that once Microsoft finalizes their buyout of ActiBlizz, they'll have two big console mascot names under their belt: Master Chief, and Crash Bandicoot. There are cases to be made about both; the former is Microsoft's biggest name, and one of the biggest names in FPS gaming to boot. The latter was PlayStation's unofficial mascot, and was a big name in Ultimate speculation even to the bitter end. It's really tough to say which one of them would be more likely to get in, if either of them even had the chance. The former has to potentially share space with Doomguy when it comes to Microsoft-owned potential Smash inclusions, while the latter was owned by a company that got in a lot of hot water over the past year, to the point where Nintendo (among other companies) released a PR message about it, and I imagine that Microsoft will flush out Activision's employees once they finalize their purchase of the company. If anything advantageous comes out for either of these characters, I'll probably update my prediction to reflect it, but for now I consider this situation to be a complete toss-up.

For the last DLC character, I pondered to myself this: "What would be a character that would both be a perfect note to close out the next Smash game on, and would be relevant by the time we reach that point (which is probably 5-6 years from now)?" Surprisingly, the potential answer came to me quickly.
Toby Fox is probably one of the few non-Nintendo alumni that has managed to get really close with Sakurai and Nintendo as a whole, and I suspect that he owes a lot of this to being inspired by a lot of Nintendo's own games when making his own content. As a result, it's no surprise that Undertale managed to resonate with a lot of people worldwide who had a similar gaming history as Toby, and it's even less of a surprise that Deltarune has kept up that momentum afterwards. Toby Fox is clearly good friends with a lot of other game devs, including Nintendo's staff and Sakurai, and I feel that as a result, Sakurai would be more than willing to add Kris from Deltarune in the next Smash to honor Toby's passion projects.
However, I feel there is one important condition here. As of this writing, Deltarune only has two out of a visible seven chapters complete. It's an episodic RPG game. And because of this, I feel that neither Sakurai nor Toby Fox will actually want to put Deltarune content in Smash until the game is complete, or VERY close to completion (as in "Sakurai can put in content that teases the last chapter(s) of the game because the character releases like a couple of weeks beforehand" very close). To put it simply, I think Kris has a likely chance at being the very last (if not one of the very last) DLC character in Smash 6, due to the circumstances revolving around his game and developer. I'd be at the very least shocked if absolutely nothing from the game gets added, to be honest.

Please let me know what you think about my choices and reasoning here. I look forward to your thoughts and critique.
you think being the most popular pokemon isnt reason enough to kept in the base game?
 

Gengar84

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As I recall, Nintendo published the majority of Rare's games (or maybe all of them) after they came on board with Donkey Kong Country, so they must've bought partial stock in them around that time. Up until then, they were just another third-party publisher, which is why things like Battletoads and Snake Rattle 'N Roll could also be on the Genesis.


Terry says hi.


Being honest, yes, I am kinda sick of it. Mainly because you haven't been shutting up about Battletoads ever since the Bethesda acquisition happened.
Yeah, I figured as much. If even I can tell I’m starting to talk about them too much, I’m sure at least a few people will be tired of hearing about them. It’s really difficult to strike a balance between sharing why I love certain characters and hopefully educating others on why the characters mean so much to me (like Diddy Kong) and talking about them too much and driving people away (like you).

I’ve tried to change the subject earlier to League of Legends/Arcane but that was unsuccessful. I also try to join in on other people’s discussions about their own favorites and talk about many of my others like Zegram, Magus, Xehanort, Shionne, Bill Rizer, Lu Bu, Sarah Kerrigan, Illidan Stormrage, Sub-Zero, Gengar, and many others. I just had a lengthy discussion about my idea for Fire Emblem in Smash (which I don’t think anyone here or on GameFAQS liked, so I guess it was a bad idea).

I try to be very respectful to everyone here and never put down anyone for wanting a character (intentionally). My logic was that a select few characters get most of the attention and discussion in the Smash community. Microsoft discussion, for example, almost always goes to Master Chief, Doom Slayer, or Crash. I don’t have any problem with any of these characters getting in or people talking about them. I just figured that I would try to expand people’s scope while talking about some of my personal favorite characters along the way. It was never intended to shut down discussion on the big three and I’m sorry if that’s what ended up happening.

I’ve never been very good at conversations and I’m very sorry if I’ve annoyed anyone here as that wasn’t my intention. I won’t bring up the Battletoads or RARE again for quite a while.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Yeah, I figured as much. If even I can tell I’m starting to talk about them too much, I’m sure at least a few people will be tired of hearing about them. It’s really difficult to strike a balance between sharing why I love certain characters and hopefully educating others on why the characters mean so much to me (like Diddy Kong) and talking about them too much and driving people away (like you).

I’ve tried to change the subject earlier to League of Legends/Arcane but that was unsuccessful. I also try to join in on other people’s discussions about their own favorites and talk about many of my others like Zegram, Magus, Xehanort, Shionne, Bill Rizer, Lu Bu, Sarah Kerrigan, Illidan Stormrage, Sub-Zero, Gengar, and many others.

I try to be very respectful to everyone here and never put down anyone for wanting a character (intentionally). My logic was that a select few characters get most of the attention and discussion in the Smash community. Microsoft discussion, for example, almost always goes to Master Chief, Doom Slayer, or Crash. I don’t have any problem with any of these characters getting in or people talking about them. I just figured that I would try to expand people’s scope while talking about some of my personal favorite characters along the way. It was never intended to shut down discussion on the big three and I’m sorry if that’s what ended up happening.

I’ve never been very good at conversations and I’m very sorry if I’ve annoyed anyone here as that wasn’t my intention. I won’t bring up the Battletoads or RARE again for quite a while.
Mmm, nah. Bring up what ever compells you to do so. It’s not your job to appease the one person that said they’re sick of it when everyone else here loves your input. Rare is a big part of Nintendo’s history and has a lot of characters that would work well and would be exciting to see in Smash.

Me personally, I’m a Joanna Dark fan and a Conker fan. I would love to see either or both in Smash at some point but they seem like a very special brand of never ever so I would be more than happy with Rash or the Battletoads.
 

Dinoman96

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Also weren't the Kremlings originally designed to be enemies for the Battletoads? It would be amazing to see them face K.Rool in Smash therefore.
Not quite, they're remnants of a cancelled point and click adventure game Rare was making called "Jonny Blastoff and the Kremling Armada".

 

Gengar84

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Mmm, nah. Bring up what ever compells you to do so. It’s not your job to appease the one person that said they’re sick of it when everyone else here loves your input. Rare is a big part of Nintendo’s history and has a lot of characters that would work well and would be exciting to see in Smash.

Me personally, I’m a Joanna Dark fan and a Conker fan. I would love to see either or both in Smash at some point but they seem like a very special brand of never ever so I would be more than happy with Rash or the Battletoads.
Thanks. I can totally understand how Yamato feels though. Sometimes hearing about the same character over and over can actually make you less interested in seeing them in Smash. It’s happened to me with Cinderace in Ultimate so I can speak from experience. I think in trying to broaden discussion, I may have went too far in the other direction and possibly made the Battletoads one of those characters for some people here like Yamato.

I think the reason I went back to talking about the Battletoads more often is because of Blizzard’s recent controversies. Before all that, I used to push a lot harder for Sarah Kerrigan and Illidan Stormrage. I still love Blizzard’s characters and feel like StarCraft and WarCraft are important enough to gaming history to earn a spot in Smash but I wouldn’t blame anyone for not wanting to talk about the company or their characters so I don’t go into detail as much anymore. What they did was horrible and until Microsoft is able to clean up their internal issues, I wouldn’t blame anyone for wanting no part of them. For me though, that does cut down on several potential favorites I can have discussions about so I tend to lean harder on the rest. The other reason is that a lot of my other favorite video game characters, like Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy, have basically no chance at all to make it into Smash so it doesn’t make as much sense to talk about them as often.
 
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Gengar84

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Is Byleth our first FE villain in Smash?
This game is likely ok’ing really cool so far. I’ve only completed Dimitri’s path in Three Houses and I’m just past the time skip with Edelgarde so hopefully I didn’t miss too much spoiler wise.

I couldn’t really get into the first Fire Emblem Warriors for various reasons, one being that I never really cared much about Corrin’s family members in Fates, which makes up most of the roster. I find the Three Houses cast to be more enjoyable personally. I love both Fire Emblem and Warriors so I’m excited to see more from this game.
 
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UberPyro64

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I'm a little late for this, but Doom Slayer is definitely one of the most requested characters at this point. And nothing is really stopping him from being added. I feel like he's almost a guarantee for the next game. With Doom being the grandfather of FPS games and having a large presence on Nintendo consoles, I definitely think he'd get in before Master Chief. But I wouldn't be surprised if both got in. Master Chief is also super requested and a massive icon.
 
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