Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

Hmm… interesting. I’m curious if they’d run into the same hurdles that prevented them from going with Heihachi for Smash given that he’s more of a realistic and grounded fighter without an obvious recovery or attacks that really stand out visually. Not saying they can’t make it work but it would be interesting to see how they’d pull it off.

One thing about VF is that they do have a lot of high jumps. This is common in a lot of early 3D fighting games (Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Edge/Blade). So if Akira has two high, floaty, jumps, then he may not need a recovery for a third one, kind of like Yoshi.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Are there any third parties that you’d like to see represented by something other than a fighter?

I was thinking of Ace Combat and how insanely good the music is in that series and would love to see it represented as a stage for the music alone.

Same with Silent Hill. I don’t imagine they’ll ever put Pyramid Head in Smash but at the very least seeing the town as the stage with easily the best music in the horror genre is a dream of mine.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

A Mio echo of Noah just doesn’t work. Different physique, different weapon, even. Yes, Mio can be a swordfighter class in XC3, but in execution here, she’s just going to be a less interesting Noah.

Noah and Mio can switch 2 different classes and some stats will be different. Their main weapon and their Ouroboros partner's weapon. Also, Noah has Lucky Seven in his sword while Mio doesn't.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There are too many great potential third party stages to name, but levels from really stylized games would be just cool to have in Smash.

Luma Pools from Ori & the Will of the Wisps would just be a gorgeous setting to have, even if Ori couldn't get into SSB specifically:

 

[HyperSomari64]

Are there any third parties that you’d like to see represented by something other than a fighter?

I was thinking of Ace Combat and how insanely good the music is in that series and would love to see it represented as a stage for the music alone.

Same with Silent Hill. I don’t imagine they’ll ever put Pyramid Head in Smash but at the very least seeing the town as the stage with easily the best music in the horror genre is a dream of mine.

STAGES:

• Tetris or Lumines (both can work, Lumines if The Tetris Company wants to pay more money)
• Hyperdimension Neptunia
• Gradius
• Danganronpa
• Anything from Atari (a changing stage or a giant Atari 2600 with the joysticks as platforms)

MUSIC:

• Super Robot Wars (or just Trombe)
• Ecco the Dolphin
• Senran Kagura (don't ask)

ASSIST TROPHIES:

• Demitri from Darkstalkers

 

[ninjahmos]

I'd love to see a stage based on Time Crisis with music from both Time Crisis and Point Blank.

And maybe a stage based on the Daytona International Speedway with music from Daytona USA and other SEGA racing games:

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, I came up with a rough idea for a moveset for Jinx despite never having played League of Legends. I just think she’s such a cool character in Arcane that I thought it would be fun. If anyone is actually familiar with how she plays in the game, let me know if I covered everything. I rewatched all her fight scenes from Arcane and tried to pull mostly from there but wanted to still keep everything about her kit from the main game as well as a few things from 2XKO.

Jinx​

Moveset:

Spoiler

Jinx is a lightweight, glass cannon zoner style. She’s got really quick movement and melee attacks but some of her projectiles like the rocket (Fishbones) and chain gun (Pow Pow) have a slow startup.

Weak Attacks

Jab - a flurry of punches followed by a quick shot of her zap gun

Forward tilt - A pistol whip

Up tilt - a jumping knee strike

Down tilt - a spinning low kick

Smash Attacks

Forward smash - Fishbones - Similar to Samus’ power missile where Jinx pulls out her rocket launcher on her shoulder and fires a rocket forward. This is a bit stronger than the power missile but has a longer startup. She can also perform this in the air and the rocket fires diagonally downward.

Up Smash - Jinx loads her rocket launcher with fireworks and shoots it diagonally upwards. The fireworks are a multi hit attack with three explosions

Down smash - A melee attack with the barrel of her chain gun swinging it diagonally downward

Specials

Neutral special - Pow pow - Jinx fires her chain gun and can aim slightly upward or downward. The range is about the same as Mega Man’s jab and lasts about as long as Charizard’s flamethrower before it overheats and has to recharge. This acts a lot like Ivysaur’s bullet seed but aimed horizontally instead of vertically.

Forward special - Zap! - Jinx fires a quick shot from her energy pistol which causes a slight stun effect like Zero Suit Samus’ blaster

Back special - Zap! - Jinx fires two shots from her pistol backwards without looking. The first is straight back and the second is diagonally upwards.

Up special - Get Excited- Similar to Lucario’s Extreme speed attack with a pink trail. Rather than the attack itself dealing damage, she is capable of performing an attack immediately afterwards

Down special - Flame Chompers - Jinx sets down a timed grenade that hops around for about five seconds before exploding. If an enemy touches them, it latches on to them. She can set three of these at once but each one placed increases the cooldown for the next one.

Aerials and Running Attack

Neutral air - Jinx pulls out her wrench and performs a quick spinning backhand attack with it

Forward air - a jumping axe kick which can spike

Back air - Jinx performs a spinning back kick

Up air - Jinx performs a somersault kick similar to Captain Falcon

Down aerial - Another move similar to Captain Falcon where Jinx performs a double foot stomp

Running attack - Jinx performs a running knee strike

Throws and Pummelt

Pummel - Jinx strikes her opponent with her knee

Forward throw - Jinx latches a flame chopper onto her opponent and kicks them forward

Back throw - Similar to Falco’s throw where she tosses her opponent backwards and fires two shots from her pistol

Up throw - Jinx performs a heavy uppercut launching her opponent upwards

Down throw where- Jinx tackles her opponent to the ground and hits them with a flurry of punches

Running attack - Jinx performs a running knee strike

Dodges

Jinx’s dodge roll is a pink shimmer infused teleport similar to Mewtwo’s

Her spot dodge has her mostly standing in place but shifting her head to the side

Final Smash

Final Smash - This is her super from 2XKO where she summons a giant pink monkey turret which fires a super mega death rocket that acts similarly to Olimar’s final smash

Taunts

Jinx says “Here I am, your big fat hero!” as she raises her arm in a heroic pose

Jinx has a mental breakdown and hunches over grabbing her head and says “I’m not crazy” and scratched graffiti of haunting scenes from her past appearance around her

Jinx laughs maniacally

Here’s the song that could play during her intro reveal trailer. It’s called “Get Jinxed”:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

And a cool fan video of matching the song with her scenes in Arcane. This one’s a bit of a spoiler for those who care so I’ll put it in a spoiler tag:

Spoiler

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

And the stage could be the bridge from her fight scene with Ekko found here in 2XKO too:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Are there any third parties that you’d like to see represented by something other than a fighter?

Yeah, we're overdue for a goddamn Tetris stage.

 

[Ivander]

I know people want a Tetris stage...but how do you do a Tetris stage that isn't, "Don't get insta-crushed or trapped by the falling Tetris blocks that have a mind of their own?"

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I know people want a Tetris stage...but how do you do a Tetris stage that isn't, "Don't get insta-crushed or trapped by the falling Tetris blocks that have a mind of their own?"

Obligatory text

 

[SharkLord]

I know people want a Tetris stage...but how do you do a Tetris stage that isn't, "Don't get insta-crushed or trapped by the falling Tetris blocks that have a mind of their own?"

Probably just get launched instead of getting flattened instantly. Or maybe you get warped out of any walled-off spots after a while if you get stuck.

Or maybe you just get oneshotted anyways

 

[Ivander]

View attachment 396668


Obligatory text

It's like a Proximity Mine-only FPS match. Respawning back onto the field only to immediately get blown up by the Proxy mine you respawned on.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

SSF2 has a Tetris transformation on its 3Ds stage...it's not fun. Granted, an official Tetris stage would have better programming so you can't get stuck in the blocks, but I don't think that's the main problem of it.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Noah and Mio can switch 2 different classes and some stats will be different. Their main weapon and their Ouroboros partner's weapon. Also, Noah has Lucky Seven in his sword while Mio doesn't.

At that point, just make two fully unique characters. As an echo, Mio is just going to be a less distinct Noah.

 

[Idon]

Noah and Mio as echoes of each other is definitely an idea that exists.

I believe the simplest argument in refuting that is simply uh,
looking at them.

Now tell me, at face value does this look like a situation where you could easily replace one for the other?
Would that be fitting for properly representing these characters?
Would the sacrifices made to accommodate the echo gimmick be worthwhile?
And most importantly, would fans of these characters be down for that interpretation?

Think the answer is quite clear.

 

[Ivander]

I don't see how Noah and Mio would not be two unique characters, even with the whole class system in Xenoblade 3. Besides I'm not even sure if in their own game, they are capable of sharing all their skills.

That said, if you wanted to represent the class system deal, wouldn't it be more easier to have Noah and Mio be two unique characters, but then they would also be part of each other's costumes as a Popo/Nana deal? Like Noah's main fighting style is whatever his class in Xenoblade 3 is, but 4 of his costume slots are also Mio with his class and similar outfit while Mio's main fighting style is whatever her class is, but 4 of her costume slots are Noah with her class and similar outfit?
It'd be bizarrely interesting in the weird sense that you can have 8 versions of Noah/Mio on the field, yet 4 of them have a different fighting style from the other 4, but even then, I don't think they would do it since it could potentially confuse people fighting against them since when you fight a character, you tend to associate them with the moveset they came with and the last thing you'd want is them somehow using a completely different moveset from the one they came with and your muscle memory with them gets messed with.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't see how Noah and Mio would not be two unique characters, even with the whole class system in Xenoblade 3. Besides I'm not even sure if in their own game, they are capable of sharing all their skills.

That said, if you wanted to represent the class system deal, wouldn't it be more easier to have Noah and Mio be two unique characters, but then they would also be part of each other's costumes as a Popo/Nana deal? Like Noah's main fighting style is whatever his class in Xenoblade 3 is, but 4 of his costume slots are also Mio with his class and similar outfit while Mio's main fighting style is whatever her class is, but 4 of her costume slots are Noah with her class and similar outfit?
It'd be bizarrely interesting in the weird sense that you can have 8 versions of Noah/Mio on the field, yet 4 of them have a different fighting style from the other 4, but even then, I don't think they would do it since it could potentially confuse people fighting against them since when you fight a character, you tend to associate them with the moveset they came with and the last thing you'd want is them somehow using a completely different moveset from the one they came with and your muscle memory with them gets messed with.

I don't think this is possible because Sakurai thought Lucina's physical differences were enough to not make her a Marth costume, and Noah and Mio are COMPLETELY different, let alone a concept where they're alts of each other but the alts play completely different.

I'd honestly prefer either a 2-in-1 where they move together and can switch between each other if they can finally figure that concept out like Sakurai was planning to do with Diddy/Dixie and Rex/Pyra, or just have one of them playable with the other coming out for some actions like taunts and Final Smash (since Ouroboros is basically required as a Final Smash).

 

[ninjahmos]

I mean, if possible, Noah and Mio could be a Zelda/Sheik or Pyra/Mythra (Aegis) situation, where you could use Down+B to switch between them.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Or we could just, ya know, not have characters from every single XB game that comes out make the exact same mistake they made with FE all over again.

 

[cashregister9]

Every idea for Noah and Mio I've seen that isn't just straight up them being 2 separate characters on the roster always feels incomplete or forced to me personally.

 

[Ivander]

Or we could just, ya know, not have characters from every single XB game that comes out make the exact same mistake they made with FE all over again.

Yeah, Elma from Xenoblade X and Celica from Fire Emblem Echoes are fun to play, but it doesn't mean every single game needs to have a char- oh wait...

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Shadow would be the only character that cannot drown in stages where you can fall on water. He would start surfing immediately when he touches water.

He's the coolest, after all.

 

[AlRex]

I actually prefer they just make a shapeshifting Tetromino a character than have the falling bricks be a huge thing for their stage, simply because the former is funny and cool and would have a fun moveset, and the latter would be annoying for the reasons that were mentioned. Smash Bros. Crusade made it work well enough. Just make a Russian stage, sure, or something more abstract. Maybe it can be PokéFloats again.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know people want a Tetris stage...but how do you do a Tetris stage that isn't, "Don't get insta-crushed or trapped by the falling Tetris blocks that have a mind of their own?"

You pick the Omega or Battlefield version

 

[Garteam]

My hot take is that Noah and Mio will be in the game, but Noah's Ouroboros form will be the actual playable character.

• Xenoblade characters have traditionally focused on being more experimental than strictly source accurate.
• Ouroboros immediately distinguishes Noah as more than another swordfighter without feeling awkward or gratuitous.
• It's one of the only ways to realistically rep both Noah and Mio without making one awkwardly echo the other's moveset in favour of using their own.
• Ouroboros Noah is clearly inspired by mecha anime (most obviously Neon Genesis Evangelion), so this creates an opportunity for Sakurai to work with an archetype that would not otherwise be in Smash (think Incineroar creating the opportunity for a wrestler in Ultimate).
• Ouroboros is likely inspired by Weltall from Xenogears, so Ouroboros is a good choice if you want to show Monolith's history without going through the torture of having to convince Square to license Xenogears.
• The Noah and Mio spirit battle heavily featured Noah and Mio's ability to merge and spirit battles are meant to simulate how the subject character(s) would fight if they were full playable characters.
• Sakurai will make a Kaiju battle between giant Noah, Ridley, DK, and Bowser on a metropolitan stage if Events return.

 

[Gengar84]

My hot take is that Noah and Mio will be in the game, but Noah's Ouroboros form will be the actual playable character.

• Xenoblade characters have traditionally focused on being more experimental than strictly source accurate.
• Ouroboros immediately distinguishes Noah as more than another swordfighter without feeling awkward or gratuitous.
• It's one of the only ways to realistically rep both Noah and Mio without making one awkwardly echo the other's moveset in favour of using their own.
• Ouroboros Noah is clearly inspired by mecha anime (most obviously Neon Genesis Evangelion), so this creates an opportunity for Sakurai to work with an archetype that would not otherwise be in Smash (think Incineroar creating the opportunity for a wrestler in Ultimate).
• Ouroboros is likely inspired by Weltall from Xenogears, so Ouroboros is a good choice if you want to show Monolith's history without going through the torture of having to convince Square to license Xenogears.
• The Noah and Mio spirit battle heavily featured Noah and Mio's ability to merge and spirit battles are meant to simulate how the subject character(s) would fight if they were full playable characters.

That’s exactly what I’m hoping for and I’ve brought up the idea a few times here myself. I think their Ouroboros form would really help separate them from the rest of the Xenoblade cast (and the roster in general). We just did a transformation duo for our last Xenoblade reps so that might feel a bit redundant doing it again so soon. Noah alone could be interesting if they let him borrow from Lanz’s and Eunie’s class abilities but sticking to just his own Swordfighter class wouldn’t offer a whole lot without doing that. Mio alone is a lot more unique and wouldn’t necessarily have to borrow from Taion or Senna in the same way that Noah would with his team. I’m just not sure they’d go with solo Mio. The Ouroboros fusion allows them both to be represented at once in a cool and unique way. Their stage entrance could be entering as a duo but fusing as soon as the battle starts.

 

[Garteam]

Their stage entrance could be entering as a duo but fusing as soon as the battle starts.

You could also give them slightly longer taunts and having Noah and Mio briefly unfused and refuse. Noah and Mio would also ideally defuse for at least one of their win screens.

 

[Gengar84]

You could also give them slightly longer taunts and having Noah and Mio briefly unfused and refuse. Noah and Mio would also ideally defuse for at least one of their win screens.

I wonder how big they can get away with making a character without breaking something. Ideally, it would want to be about Ridley’s size but standing upright. I think that might be a little too large for proper balance so I’ll settle for a bit taller than Ganondorf if they need to scale it down.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Haven't played Xenoblade 3 but it would be cool if they took a page from those old Dragonball games with 150 characters. You had a team of characters and you could switch between any of them at will, but for example if you had both Goku and Vegeta you could have them fuse into Vegeth/Gogeta and fight the rest of the battle with him.
I don't know how that would work for a single character in Smash without it essentially being three fighters in one, though.

 

[Gengar84]

Haven't played Xenoblade 3 but it would be cool if they took a page from those old Dragonball games with 150 characters. You had a team of characters and you could switch between any of them at will, but for example if you had both Goku and Vegeta you could have them fuse into Vegeth/Gogeta and fight the rest of the battle with him.
I don't know how that would work for a single character in Smash without it essentially being three fighters in one, though.

Pokémon Trainer is three characters in one so it’s definitely possible. I’m not sure whether they’d want to actually dedicate three movesets to essentially one character again though. It would be really cool if they did.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

N would be a much better echo fighter for Noah then Mio anyway, and that really isn't even up for debate. If Mio gets in its as her own seperate character, not as an echo fighter.

 

[Perkilator]

Every idea for Noah and Mio I've seen that isn't just straight up them being 2 separate characters on the roster always feels incomplete or forced to me personally.

That's a pretty succinct way to out it. Between trying to cram Mio as an Echo Fighter and suggesting that the Ouroboros form will be the way to make Noah playable, it seems like people are too afraid of just letting them be playable without some weird stipulations.

 

[Gengar84]

That's a pretty succinct way to out it. Between trying to cram Mio as an Echo Fighter and suggesting that the Ouroboros form will be the way to make Noah playable, it seems like people are too afraid of just letting them be playable without some weird stipulations.

I’m not saying Noah has to have the Ouroboros fusion in order to be playable, it’s just what I personally find the most interesting. The idea of borrowing skills from Lanz and Eunie also works. I’m not sure they’d want to dedicate two fully unique characters to a single game in the next Smash. I feel like they’d more likely go with Elma over one of them if they really wanted two Xenoblade newcomers in the next game.

 

[fogbadge]

• Ouroboros immediately distinguishes Noah as more than another swordfighter without feeling awkward or gratuitous.

I have got to disagree. Sounds very gratuitous

 

[BritishGuy54]

Noah and Mio as a tag team is probably the ideal choice, but considering how planned duo fighters ended up not making it in in the past, I get why there’s a ton of skepticism this time around.

I think a solo Noah is more interesting than people give it credit for. Solo Mio has a unique weapon, so that’s a plus for her, and for catgirl representation. I don’t really care for Ouroboros as an addition though.

Elma at least has XCXDE as a plus, but I think she just needs XCX to become a full-on spin-off series, rather than a just one-off game not in the numbered trilogy.

Rex would be cool, and a pick mainly for popularity, but I’m not so sure he’d make it. In either his XC2 or XC3FR designs.

Apart from Noah, Mio, and maybe Elma, many aren’t paying attention to what character choices Xenoblade really has to offer.

I’ve talked about before on how a Xenoblade echo fighter is way more likely than many think (no, it is not butchered versions of Dunban, Rex, or Mio just because someone just watched Chapter 1 of each game).

Alvis is probably somewhat realistic as an echo fighter. Being basically a model-swap of , being a featherweight, and a different Monado Art or two, such as Monado Cyclone or Monado Purge would be cool. FS could be Alpha or something.

Nia needs Mio in first. If they opt of Noah over Mio, her chances are very, very low. Being a popular character from the series will help a ton, but she really shouldn’t replace . I think her other form would be good FS though, with Rex helping too. She also likely has a good chance at having more development in an XC2DE. If they do go for Noah, Nia would be a great AT still.

Pneuma could just get the Omnislash Ver. 5 situation, being added as a new Final Smash. I’d like her as an echo, either attached to or distinct from , and I think she’d be a good bet on what character gets more development in an XC2DE.

N is one I’ve kind of mellowed out on, due to the Noah/Mio amiibo giving Noah N’s costume, which I think will be carried over into Smash if Noah were to get in.

The main issue I’ve seen people suggest is that these additions are too spoilery. But is it really feasible to keep spoilers away forever? And it offers more to with these characters. There is absolutely no way EVERYONE here gets in though, as funny as that’d be.

Other characters I thought about were Malos as a heavier semi-clone, Matthew would be a fun brawler, but I think he’s got a great shot at an AT role, and Melia would be a new mage-like character, but I think the work just wouldn’t justify it for any of these guys compared to easier echoes and more prominent characters.

 

[Gengar84]

It’s weird because Xenoblade is among my favorite series ever but I’m more or less content with what we have. A lot of my favorite characters from the series like Nia and Dunban aren’t particularly likely. I personally think the Ouroboros fusion form would make for a really cool and unique Smash character while representing two characters in a new way but it’s clear I’m in the minority in that opinion. While they’re still near the top of my most wanted first party characters, there’s a ton of third party characters I’d be more hyped for than even their fusion form. I’d still definitely be happy with another character but none of them really crack my top 10 most wanted.

I think the reason I feel that way is that I love the series for reasons other than its characters and story. The exploration of the huge, imaginative environment is a ton of fun and the music is amazing. The combat system can also be pretty addicting once you get the hang of it even if it a bit much to take in at times. I still do like various characters and the story can be pretty cool when I understand what’s happening but those aren’t the main reasons I like the games. Like most of Xenoblade 2’s story and characters weren’t really my thing but I still loved Nia in that game. None of the cast from the third game stood out as a particular favorite but I generally liked all of them. My favorite character in that game is actually an optional side hero named Ashera. Among the party members, I think I’d go with either Mio or Eunie as my favorites. Noah is cool and I do like him but he feels a bit plain kind of like Alphen from Tales of Arise.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Some of my favorite smash inclusions are the characters that don't have much going on outside of Smash, at least at the time they were added. K. Rool, Simon, game and watch... Of course Banjo. It's more interesting to me when a character is added in a "you're not getting that outside of Smash" kind of way. No wonder some kind of Rhythm Heaven thing has gradually become my most wanted first party pick.

 

[Gengar84]

Some of my favorite smash inclusions are the characters that don't have much going on outside of Smash, at least at the time they were added. K. Rool, Simon, game and watch... Of course Banjo. It's more interesting to me when a character is added in a "you're not getting that outside of Smash" kind of way. No wonder some kind of Rhythm Heaven thing has gradually become my most wanted first party pick.

Yeah, I agree. A lot of my most wanted characters fall into that category. Some of my most wanted characters are side party members from older JRPGs and others are classic characters that haven’t really been relevant in years. A few of my other most wanted characters are generally really popular but not within the Smash fandom.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I'm just considering the possibility of them choosing one of either Noah or Mio, and only one.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm just considering the possibility of them choosing one of either Noah or Mio, and only one.

I feel like the most likely option is solo Noah that borrows from Lanz and Eunie for some attacks. Lanz does have some cool attacks like his shield turret that could make for really fun Smash attacks. I’m just not confident they’ll add both Noah and Mio since they just did that with Pyra and Mythra. I think the Ouroboros would be the coolest and most unique option but solo Noah could still be interesting using abilities from different classes.