Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yes projectiles, but also spells and hexes and psychic **** and general witch/wizard tropes. Use your imagination.

So they'd be more about status effects than traditional zoning...

Honestly, that'd be unique for Smash so it could be cool.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not sure how a Mii Mage would really stick out alongside Mii Gunner.

Wouldn't both rely on projectiles?

I think if they were to add a Mii Caster, I think the only real route to take them would be the gimmick fighter. Palutena would probably be the best starting po-

Give Mii Mage all the old Palutena custom moves that aren't used anymore.

It'd be funny.

Maybe not literally that, but giving them that same sort of grab bag of rediculously gimmicky attacks is exactly what I'd expect from the idea of a Mii Caster.

 

[SPEN18]

It's already pretty taxing to dedicate 3 whole unique slots + customization options to the Miis. Like, you really feel it when you try to put together a roster with a limited number of slots. Significantly extending the Mii system could have some neat upsides but IMO is very not worth it over putting those resources into other characters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's already pretty taxing to dedicate 3 whole unique slots + customization options to the Miis. Like, you really feel it when you try to put together a roster with a limited number of slots. Significantly extending the Mii system could have some neat upsides but IMO is very not worth it over putting those resources into other characters.

Honestly, I can agree with that.

More Mii stuff would be cool but at the same time, the three we have already cover a lot so unless Sakurai somehow really didn't have ideas for new characters or some IP owners say no to a character he planned for, I'm not sure about the idea of a new Mii over a new character.

It'd be cool but I'd be nervous thinking about who got sacrificed to have a fourth Mii type.

 

[Perkilator]

I got an even funnier idea: Mii Magician, based on the kinds of magicians who do magic tricks for birthday parties.

Okay but in all seriousness, I'd personally like to make the Mii Fighter a single character and roll the appropriate special moves from each existing Mii class into one. What I mean is, this singular Mii Fighter would be able to choose between Brawler (1), Swordfighter (2), and Gunner (3) specials, respectively.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Okay but in all seriousness, I'd personally like to make the Mii Fighter a single character and roll the appropriate special moves from each existing Mii class into one. What I mean is, this singular Mii Fighter would be able to choose between Brawler (1), Swordfighter (2), and Gunner (3) specials, respectively.

Cool idea but how does it work for the non-special moves?

 

[Perkilator]

Cool idea but how does it work for the non-special moves?

I guess take the non-special moves that can reasonably work for a single Mii Fighter?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

OK now I'm invested.

Spoiler: Neutral Specials

1. Mana Ball
   • Fires a projectile a short distance before becoming inert. The ball can be destroyed and picked up, but not reflected by other attacks while inert. Pressing the special move button while it is inert, allows you to send the ball a short distance in the specified direction, dealing damage on the way, or explode if none is given.
2. Star Barrage
   • A generic variant of Star Bits that can setup combos at point blank, but otherwise kind of just exists.
3. Secret Arts
   • Monado Arts, but for gimmicks! For a time, you are able to give yourself the ability to float at the cost of reduced weight, tipper at the cost of consistent damage (this is how your Mii can Lightning Kick!), or create a clone of yourself that copies your every move, but you take half of the damage it does.

Spoiler: Side Specials

1. Magic Missile
   • During a slight pause, a symbol appears over your head, then you rocket forward, headbutting any opponents in front of you. There are 5 symbols that can appear, changing the special properties of your attack:
     • Earth: The attack has super armor.
     • Fire: The attack has an explosion upon impact that deals extra damage and knockback.
     • Air: The attack homes in on nearby opponents.
     • Water: Your Mii keeps moving forward after the attack hits, allowing for combos.
     • Mastery: All properties are active. This one happens very rarely.
2. Element Absorbtion
   • The first part of this move absorbs energy based projectiles. Once you've absorbed one, you can fire off a projectile attack based on the element you absorbed (i.e. Absorbing a fire attack is going to give you a different projectile from an electric one).
3. Dual Laser
   • A chargeable laser attack that fires a short ranged laser that combos into a second laser that grows in range and power based on the amount you charged it, with the full charge being a usually impractically slow, but dummy powerful kind of attack. You cannot store the charge of this move, and once you start the move, you commit to firing off the lasers.

Spoiler: Up Specials

1. Burst Teleport
   • Straight up just generic Nayru's Love.
2. Levitate
   • Straight up just a re-balanced Jump Glide.
3. Fairy Hook
   • A tether grab that can K.O. if you hit with the very tip of its range.

Spoiler: Down Specials

1. Conjure Item
   • A generic version of Faust's What Could This Be? Tosses a random item toward the opponent. Some items like Green Shells can be dangerous from the initial toss, but others like Food need to be fought over for them to benefit you.
2. Mana Charge/Mana Burst
   • A genericized version of Limit Charge and Finishing Touch. Once you've charged your Mana meter, you gain slightly increased speed and power, and access to Mana Burst, an easier to hit, but not as powerful version of Finishing Touch. If you refrain from using Mana Burst for too long, you lose the buff, and the ability to use Mana Burst until you charge your meter again. This move does not effect any other special moves.
3. Copy Form
   • A command grab that transforms you into the character you hit with this move for a limited time. Your attack power is slightly boosted in your new form.

 

[DarthEnderX]

MII MAGE
MII MAGE
MII MAGE

I mean...yes please. But was this in response to something?

I'm not sure how a Mii Mage would really stick out alongside Mii Gunner.

Wouldn't both rely on projectiles?

So? Swordfighter and Brawler both rely on melee.

As long as the prijectiles are different. Plus, staff moveset!

It's already pretty taxing to dedicate 3 whole unique slots + customization options to the Miis. Like, you really feel it when you try to put together a roster with a limited number of slots.

It's not about the slot you're losing. It's about all the characters that slot gets you.

Aerith [Final Fantasy] (converted from Swordfighter)
Ashley [WarioWare] (converted from Swordfighter)
Lip [Panel de Pon] (converted from Swordfighter)
Veronica [Dragon Quest] (converted from Swordfighter)
Vince [Art Academy] (converted from Swordfighter)
Viridi [Kid Icarus] (converted from Swordfighter)
Eggplant Wizard [Kid Icarus]
Kamek [Super Mario Bros.]
FF Black Mage [Mario Sports Mix]
FF White Mage [Mario Sports Mix]
Reimu [Touhou]
Magus [Chrono Trigger]

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Realistically I think the Miis are going to be pretty much untouched. No real overhauls or reworks. Unless they get super prominent in hardware again, I could see them even being cut or downgraded. A fourth Mii is honestly a pipe dream.

I suppose that's acceptable because the three main archetypes we have cover most bases but as others have said, it isn't perfect.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The only way I can see Miis getting cut is if the next system outright ditches the feature because I do not see the devs building an entire Mii Maker just to bring them back.

But at the same time, I also don't see Nintendo ditching Miis entirely. It's just the only scenario where they can get cut, imo.

 

[ninjahmos]

How about Mii Spear/Lancer, Mii Archer, Mii Axeman, Mii Thief/Ninja, Mii Staff, Mii Nunchucks and Mii Naginata?

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah, to parrot what I said in the Unpopular Opinion Thread, we only have four mage characters.



And that's counting spell swords as mages. Palutena does use her staff but she uses tons of light magic too. Plus staffs are like THE mage weapon.



These guys use psychic powers which is kind of mage like, but I can't count it as a true mage like the above four.

Would Rosalina count? She's got her magic wand

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Would Rosalina count? She's got her magic wand

I think we're really stretching here.

She does use some magic but that would be like saying Hero is a brawler because two his moves are kicks.

She very much is designed around Luma, not a usage of magic.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Yeah, to parrot what I said in the Unpopular Opinion Thread, we only have four mage characters.



And that's counting spell swords as mages. Palutena does use her staff but she uses tons of light magic too. Plus staffs are like THE mage weapon.



These guys use psychic powers which is kind of mage like, but I can't count it as a true mage like the above four.

Guess we need both Kamek and Ashley then.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think we're really stretching here.

She does use some magic but that would be like saying Hero is a brawler because two his moves are kicks.

She very much is designed around Luma, not a usage of magic.

The magic space princess who wields a magic wand and attacks with magic is not a mage because their game plan is based on their magical summoned creature?

 

[DarthEnderX]

How about Mii Spear/Lancer, Mii Archer, Mii Axeman, Mii Thief/Ninja, Mii Staff, Mii Nunchucks and Mii Naginata?

I think Mage and Ninja are the only archetypes with the moveset and character potential to justify a Mii Fighter.

Like, how many iconic nunchuck users are there in gaming really?

 

[cashregister9]

Didn't understand the topic, somehow this is now our list of Mii Fighters

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Didn't understand the topic, somehow this is now our list of Mii Fighters

Ah yes, my favorite class.

M I I M O O N C A N C E R

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The magic space princess who wields a magic wand and attacks with magic is not a mage because their game plan is based on their magical summoned creature?

At best, she'd be a half-mage like the spellsword and only count because mages are pretty lacking in general.

Which would be fair enough, but I personally never really saw her as a mage because Luma always was the main focus.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Would Rosalina count? She's got her magic wand

Hrmmmm... I forgot Rosalina. I guess she has enough magic effects that I could count her. She does have lots of Galaxy and Ring magic for her aerial's and Smash attacks.

She may be a stretch, but if I'm counting the others, I think she counts.

So we have five mages.

 

[Kirbeh]

If the Miis don't get expanded on, I'd honestly rather not have them around.

I like the idea of having custom characters but I personally don't think they go far enough with it.

As they currently are, they feel too limited but if you put more time into them then you get all the concerns and complaints over why they're putting resources into the Miis over actual characters.

I'd like to see the customization extended to every move instead of just specials, and with preferably more than 3 options each.

It is a lot of additional work but I'd be perfectly fine with having the Miis recycle as much as they can from the other fighters.

I also don't think you even necessarily need to have Mii Fighters in the base game. Or maybe they are but new classes and customization options are held off for updates much like they did with HRC and Stage Builder. Then of course all the cosmetic stuff would continue to be paid DLC.

 

[SharkLord]

Guess we need both Kamek and Ashley then.

Honestly yeah, from what I can gather the magic trick concepts would be best reserved for an actual magician character rather than a generic Mii Mage. Going off of the Swamp Poll, Ashley seems to have a pretty sizeable fanbase still, so she'd probably be out best bet. I don't know much about what she could do, but I think she could cover a lot of the usual witch/spell/hex stuff pretty well.

If the Miis don't get expanded on, I'd honestly rather not have them around.

I like the idea of having custom characters but I personally don't think they go far enough with it.

As they currently are, they feel too limited but if you put more time into them then you get all the concerns and complaints over why they're putting resources into the Miis over actual characters.

I'd like to see the customization extended to every move instead of just specials, and with preferably more than 3 options each.

It is a lot of additional work but I'd be perfectly fine with having the Miis recycle as much as they can from the other fighters.

I also don't think you even necessarily need to have Mii Fighters in the base game. Or maybe they are but new classes and customization options are held off for updates much like they did with HRC and Stage Builder. Then of course all the cosmetic stuff would continue to be paid DLC.

Honestly yeah, the Mii Fighters are super limited as custom characters. All they have are two-piece outfits and three sets of generic specials. It doesn't help that DLC focused on making costumes out of existing characters, essentially treating the Miis as a vessel for whoever they didn't add as a fighter rather than proper custom characters. It would definitely take a lot of work, especially with the various body types in Smash, but I'd be all for a more in-depth custom character creator in the vein of Street Fighter 6 or Soulcalibur.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Mages in Smash are usually zoners like Mii Gunner. Miis are about the archetypal Smash playstyles, Brawler = Mario, Swordfighter = Link, Gunner = Samus (but see how Gunner has PSI Magnet as a potential down special).
What's actually missing is DK. The big body heavyweight. You could put the Miis in a mecha or something.

Yeah I'm more than okay with no more Mii types

 

[fogbadge]

How about Mii Spear/Lancer, Mii Archer, Mii Axeman, Mii Thief/Ninja, Mii Staff, Mii Nunchucks and Mii Naginata?

what, no Mii Bard?

 

[Oracle Link]

If the next game keeps Mii Fighters, they should definitely add in more styles, but I think they should also add in more Specials to choose from for each style.

Also, DLC Mii Costumes should include more music.

In general there should just be music DLC!
Lets say Ultimate wouldve recieved some new Kirby Spirits and music via DLC Right?
Wouldve made the lack of a new Character hurt less!

 

[Hypercat-Z]

The only way I can see Miis getting cut is if the next system outright ditches the feature because I do not see the devs building an entire Mii Maker just to bring them back.

But at the same time, I also don't see Nintendo ditching Miis entirely. It's just the only scenario where they can get cut, imo.

I think not only the Miis will return but they will also be improved, allowing weird colors and features for the skin, the hair and the eyes, allowing for more accurate Mii costumes.

I can see Nintendo ditching the amiibos though, because they are expensive to produce and have limitations (all the characters with raymanish limbs just to mention one). So Mii Fighters will no longer be rapresented by those three guys.

 

[Gengar84]

Here’s a hypothetical question: Assuming that Miis never existed, do you think Smash would have ever gotten a traditional character creator? It seems like it would have been a huge task considering the variety in character shapes and proportions in the game but I’d have loved to see it. As things stand now, I think the concept is pretty unlikely as Miis already full that role for a lot of people. I typically love character creators in games but I’ve never really been a fan of what Miis look like. It makes total sense to keep them around though considering their marketing appeal for crossover costumes.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Here’s a hypothetical question: Assuming that Miis never existed, do you think Smash would have ever gotten a traditional character creator?

No. The whole appeal of Smash is the crossover aspect with established characters. Even though Miis are customizable, Miis are still in their own right established Nintendo icons themselves. If they hadn't existed, I don't think the Smash team would have much reason to make a character creator and the fans would have no reason to expect one.

 

[Gengar84]

No. The whole appeal of Smash is the crossover aspect with established characters. Even though Miis are customizable, Miis are still in their own right established Nintendo icons themselves. If they hadn't existed, I don't think the Smash team would have much reason to make a character creator and the fans would have no reason to expect one.

Yeah, you’re probably right. Although, in that hypothetical, Nintendo could have included DLC costumes from other crossover properties like they do for Soul Calibur and Street Fighter (hopefully at a much lower price than the latter). That way, they could still play into the whole crossover aspect and keep the idea we currently have going with the Mii outfits.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At best, she'd be a half-mage like the spellsword and only count because mages are pretty lacking in general.

Which would be fair enough, but I personally never really saw her as a mage because Luma always was the main focus.

...I am genuinely baffled. Do you just not consider summoners to be mages? I mean, Luma pretty much operates as Rosalina's familiar in Smash, and familiars are staples of witches, warlocks, and it's even bled into wizards as well.


Heh, it is kinda funny that Ganondorf is a mage in the lore, but absolutely no-one would argue that he is actually a mage. I guess the description of "Ganondorf is a wizard that doesn't know what wizards are" is pretty apt, at least in this case. Although Hyrule is kind of a low magic setting a lot of the time with a lot of spells being literal god powers so the fact that Ganon(dorf) can fly or teleport or summon bats of fire probably does label him as a great mage in that setting.

 

[Gengar84]

Does Sora count as a mage? I’d put him in the same boat as Hero at least being primary sword/keyblade users with elemental spells. Robin feels like the reverse in that they’re primarily mages with secondary swordsmanship. I think Ness and Lucas probably count as mages as well. Lucas feel more like a typical mage than Ness thanks to PK Freeze giving him access to three common elements. PK Flash is kind of its own thing it seems.

 

[fogbadge]

Does Sora count as a mage? I’d put him in the same boat as Hero at least being primary sword/keyblade users with elemental spells. Robin feels like the reverse in that they’re primarily mages with secondary swordsmanship. I think Ness and Lucas probably count as mages as well. Lucas feel more like a typical mage than Ness thanks to PK Freeze giving him access to three common elements. PK Flash is kind of its own thing it seems.

well his elemental spells are just the one move

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Does Sora count as a mage? I’d put him in the same boat as Hero at least being primary sword/keyblade users with elemental spells. I think Ness and Lucas probably count as mages as well. Lucas feel more like a typical mage than Ness thanks to PK Freeze giving him access to three common elements. PK Flash is kind of its own thing it seems.

If Rosalina doesn't count as a mage then Sora definitely freaking doesn't. At least within his series it's kind of hard to say because he's operating on two different magic systems, but I think in Final Fantasy the ability to cast spells like Firaga would make him at least a half mage. It's also worth noting that his weapon is inherently magical as well, though that doesn't necessarily make you a mage.

The PSI boys I'm more willing to actually just say no because while psychic abilities are just sci-fi magic, they are almost always defined as being not magic, so I'd have to say they're not mages because of their setting.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you guys have a most wanted mage character if we did get one? Mine is Magus from Chrono Trigger. Not only does he have the typical elemental magic spells, but he also has several dark/shadow elemental magic spells though could play really interestingly. He’s also got a scythe for a weapon, which would be a first in Smash. Most importantly to me though, he’s just a really cool character in general with a visual design that I like a lot.

 

[Borskaboska]

No. The whole appeal of Smash is the crossover aspect with established characters. Even though Miis are customizable, Miis are still in their own right established Nintendo icons themselves. If they hadn't existed, I don't think the Smash team would have much reason to make a character creator and the fans would have no reason to expect one.

I don;t think this is necessarily true, the mii's were definitley sold on the idea of "Want a character that isn't in the game? Make them yourself!". If mii's didnt exist and instead you made your own custom character entirely from scratch, that could actually feed into the crossover aspect instead of contradicting it. Like when soul caliber 6 came out and people posted their pictures of Mr Krabs in the character creator.

 

[NintenRob]

I'd argue Rosalina is more of a "mage" than some of the other characters listed. She still has near full Moveset without Luma (seriously, Luma is needed for only 2 attacks, it's attacks are alongside Rosalinas own attacks) and from memory, only her upsmash doesn't use magic of some kind in the attack. And her down special especially is a pretty magic spell type thing

 

[Oracle Link]

I mean...yes please. But was this in response to something?

So? Swordfighter and Brawler both rely on melee.

As long as the prijectiles are different. Plus, staff moveset!

It's not about the slot you're losing. It's about all the characters that slot gets you.

Aerith [Final Fantasy] (converted from Swordfighter)
Ashley [WarioWare] (converted from Swordfighter)
Lip [Panel de Pon] (converted from Swordfighter)
Veronica [Dragon Quest] (converted from Swordfighter)
Vince [Art Academy] (converted from Swordfighter)
Viridi [Kid Icarus] (converted from Swordfighter)
Eggplant Wizard [Kid Icarus]
Kamek [Super Mario Bros.]
FF Black Mage [Mario Sports Mix]
FF White Mage [Mario Sports Mix]
Reimu [Touhou]
Magus [Chrono Trigger]

Not to forget that if we keep zelda as she is in ultimate +-(Small moveset adjustments and costumes)
A mii mage Would be perfect to give THIS design of zelda too:

It being the canon? Design of zelda from her first Playable appearnce it makes sense adding it atleast as a mii costume!
(WIth toy Link being a costume for toon Link)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think if Miis didn't exist, an avatar of some kind would eventually take on the role of custom character. It would probably take a while because Nintendo doesn't have an MMO, but the protagonists of WoW or Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn would probably work quite well for the idea.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If the Miis don't get expanded on, I'd honestly rather not have them around.

I like the idea of having custom characters but I personally don't think they go far enough with it.

As they currently are, they feel too limited but if you put more time into them then you get all the concerns and complaints over why they're putting resources into the Miis over actual characters.

I'd like to see the customization extended to every move instead of just specials, and with preferably more than 3 options each.

It is a lot of additional work but I'd be perfectly fine with having the Miis recycle as much as they can from the other fighters.

I also don't think you even necessarily need to have Mii Fighters in the base game. Or maybe they are but new classes and customization options are held off for updates much like they did with HRC and Stage Builder. Then of course all the cosmetic stuff would continue to be paid DLC.

Mortal Kombat Armageddon has taught me that being able to customize each and every individual move is not really the best idea because you could end up with some really absurd stuff.

The devs would need to make absolutely sure that no combination of moves can outright break the game so a lot of those normals would feel either samey or somewhat undertuned to prevent having a Mii where every single individual move is broken in their own right which is possible but goddamn I don't even want to imagine how long it would be to balance that.