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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Louie G.

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I could've sworn Antony was credited alongside Laura Bailey and Matthew Mercer in Smash 4. I know Laura went uncredited in Smash Ultimate, but she was definitely credited in Smash 4 and I could've sworn she was part of a union then.
Things must have changed somehow since then, because Hynden Walch was Viridi in Smash 4 and they replaced her in Ultimate for presumably that reason. I recall an interview where Ali Hillis also suggests she was just too busy the first time to do Palutena, but the second time around sat out in solidarity with the union.

…Did anyone else see that GameXplain interview with Antony Del Rio and Ali Hillis? I think they unlisted or took it down, I tried to find that a few weeks ago and came up short. That’s where I got that last bit from, though.

Edit: Never mind it’s up again.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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I could've sworn Antony was credited alongside Laura Bailey and Matthew Mercer in Smash 4. I know Laura went uncredited in Smash Ultimate, but she was definitely credited in Smash 4 and I could've sworn she was part of a union then.
Antony as well as Hynden Walch were uncredited for their reprised Uprising roles in Smash For according to SmashWiki.
 
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Idon

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I probably should have specified, but this was indeed a suggestion for 1v1 specifically.

I don't think it'd be necessary or even feasible in free for alls.
A negative penalty for cowardice would be a good idea in a game as freeform as this but the main problem with that is there's some instances where the "camping" isn't just simply holding away from the other player. The way Smash works is your camping is doing a circle above and around the opponent and still allows you to attack while running away.

The most notorious user of these strats is Sonic and he works well because his ball attacks allow you to very very safely run directly into, and past, the opponent repeatedly. I'm not sure there'd be any way for the game to tell if this was aggression or defensive.

I also think it's kinda inelegant as a solution; it falls in the same vein as 1v1 damage buff where it's a brute force way of balancing the game rather than just naturally designing the game around being less campy. Wouldn't say no to it if they somehow made it work though!
 

Hypercat-Z

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I mean in my mind I'd like All-Star to go back to Melee style where every round was a random opponent or group of opponents except for like the last one. So instead of grouping characters by series or by when their games came out like Brawl and Smash 4, it'd just be a group of random opponents every time to make it not get stale when you have to do it a bunch.

So basically DLC would just be added to the list and fought randomly just like everyone else.
I'd prefer A.

All-Star mode doesn't feel right if everyone isn't in it.
So you both prefer the All stars mode getting bigger. I which case even the refills should be increased, to not make the pre DLC players getting too advantaged by a smaller roster.
One solution could be that every character, when being defeated, leaves a small refilling item on the battleground.
BTW, besides an All-Stars mode, I think the game deserves a boss run mode, prior having more bosses. I hope in a return of Duon.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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A negative penalty for cowardice would be a good idea in a game as freeform as this but the main problem with that is there's some instances where the "camping" isn't just simply holding away from the other player. The way Smash works is your camping is doing a circle above and around the opponent and still allows you to attack while running away.

The most notorious user of these strats is Sonic and he works well because his ball attacks allow you to very very safely run directly into, and past, the opponent repeatedly. I'm not sure there'd be any way for the game to tell if this was aggression or defensive.

I also think it's kinda inelegant as a solution; it falls in the same vein as 1v1 damage buff where it's a brute force way of balancing the game rather than just naturally designing the game around being less campy. Wouldn't say no to it if they somehow made it work though!
That's also a good point. Negative Penalty works well because it punishes spamming backdash and holding back without blocking anything (there's probably some proximity checks in the equation too) but Smash doesn't have holding back to block or backdashing. It's equivalent already has shield breaks and increased end lag on spamming dodge rolls, which doesn't have the same effect, but it does put a resource on the legit defensive mechanics in a similar way.

Movement as defense is ridiculously difficult to detect without a human present, and some characters are literally built to camp. If you added a meter, you might could do what Dragon Ball FighterZ does and give players more meter for moving toward opponent rather than from them, and perhaps take a step further and make projectiles build less meter across the board than regular attacks.
 
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ninjahmos

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I just played Ultimate for a bit and collected a few of the remaining Spirits. I might go back and collect a few more, but I'm pretty sure I've collected most of them, and I have all playable characters (including DLC). I think I'm also ready to move on from Ultimate.

We don't need more DLC for Ultimate, we don't need EiH2 and we don't need Ultimate 2/Deluxe. We need a new game.
 
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Gorgonzales

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I just played Ultimate for a bit and collected a few of the remaining Spirits. I might go back and collect a few more, but I'm pretty sure I've collected most of them, and I have all playable characters (including DLC). I think I'm also ready to move on from Ultimate.

We don't need more DLC for Ultimate, we don't need EiH2 and we don't need Ultimate 2/Deluxe. We need a new game.
Agreed. I don't think I could stand another game with Ultimate's sticky platforms and input lag, but in a broader sense I'd be fine if Smash in its current form ends with Ultimate. I want the next game to have a vastly different stage roster, new mechanics/modes that heavily distinguish this game from its predecessors, and character reworks for the ones that need it (Sonic, Ganondorf, Olimar, etc) and touching-up for the rest of the cast because there's always room for improvement with them, even if it's adding a move or two.
 
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Guynamednelson

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We don't need more DLC for Ultimate, we don't need EiH2 and we don't need Ultimate 2/Deluxe.
Be sure to remember you said this before you click the like button on a post arguing in favor of any of these.
I don't think I could stand another game with Ultimate's sticky platforms and input lag
I'd at least hope they'd fix the input lag in the event we get a port or more content for Ultimate. Even before the BCP, MK8 Deluxe fixed the game's framerate so it ran at a proper 60 FPS rather than 59, for example. I may think people overestimate how deluxe Ultimate Deluxe can be, but it'd likely have the resources for minor gameplay tweaks like that
 
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Idon

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Whatever form the next smash takes...
Please please fix the input lag on this game and lessen the buffer.

We've gotten used to it by now, but man it's a wonder how every game before feels more responsive in terms of actually inputting the move you want at the right time.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Me hoping for a better online experience for the next smash game
Sakurai: "Well like last time I did consider rollback netcode, but it was deemed impossible because we're still reusing most of our engine assets and you kinda have to design the game with rollback netcode in mind for it to work."
 

Perkilator

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that is also me hoping for no online content in the next game
In that case you might as well look for copies of 64 and Melee on eBay if you don’t have them already, because there’s no way the next game’s skipping out on online entirely.
 
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smashkirby

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I’d personally classify them as whatever they originated as. Like I’d consider Ryu Hyabusa a Ninja Gaiden rep before a Dead or Alive rep. I’m actually unfamiliar with Akira but I’m digging her design. She seems like she’d be a cool Smash character on design alone.
Makes sense. What's more, I assume that Cody has the excuse of Final Fight being SO intertwined with S.F. over the years that him being classified as an S.F. character wouldn't make MOST folks think twice about the subject. Granted, I'D be one of those folks who'd consider it 'Final Fight erasure', but...

Ngl, her design combined with her personality is what truly sold me on her as a character. No joke, Akira acts like she might as well be two completely different people, depending on whether or not she's wearing her big brother's biker outfit.

Heck, speaking of her brother's biker outfit? I wouldn't be surprised if (ESPECIALLY following her well-received appearance in Street Fighter 5 AND the upcoming Capcom Fighting Collection 2) the next Smash Bros. had said outfit as a Mii Fighter costume.

IMO (in order)

M. Bison
Akuma
Juri
Luke
Sakura
Guile (Nash echo)

I feel like after Chun-Li this is the remaining pool of SF candidates for Smash. i could be wrong, just my opinion.
Is it weird that, even back when Ryu was first added to Smash 4, I've felt as though SAKURA would have been a better fit for Smash Bros.? I mean, I've largely gotten over that thought process, but I used to feel as though she'd have been a better fit for Smash's 'aesthetic', if that makes sense.

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It's funny how seemingly desperate the final pre-release Ultimate Smash direct was in trying to make spirits seem like a cool fleshed-out universe of unique characters instead of a collection of 1000 or so PNGs that all pull from the same pool of 50 or so effects.

Like yeah bro... Louie, Wiggler, Helix, and the Pac-Man ghosts are my dream team, but seeing static images of them occasionally bounce up and down as they "hunt" for treasure doesn't really do it for me.
SHEESH... looking back on it now? You're totally right. It truly is hilarious (in a sad way, almost) how Nintendo tried to hype up Spirits as THAT big of deal.

Granted, when Spirits were fresh in our minds, I had an idea that borrowed from Shonen Jump's Nintendo DS crossover games and said games' manga-panel gameplay system allowed for certain NPCs to make little quips for whatever reason if they were powering up a certain character.

Of course, I imagine that wouldn't have been feasible with Ultimate's development time...

Honestly, I'd just like to see Smash acknowledge its thematic origins of being one big depiction of toys and figures being played with. Characters being ripped from their worlds directly to fight is cool and all but the way Smash took contextualizing its crossover a step further was always an artistic decision that really stuck with me. Overtime it's fallen to the wayside, with the only real sticking point now being that characters are still trophies technically, but even then we hardly see that represented in the games. The last time I felt that original theming was Smash 4 trophy shop, especially the Wii U's version. Genuinely one of the coolest pieces of presentation I've seen from the series. I want to see more of that!

I recognize that it's probably just a result of the series growing over the years and that its all bonus fluff that many won't entirely care about, but it's a flare that gives Smash something unique compared to most other crossover media and I think that's just cool as hell.
I'm overall kind of neutral on spirits, but my opinion is similar to Yeppers here where I'm remiss that Smash near abandoned its toys to life premise in any significant way. Trophies served as a nice reminder of the premise, so I miss them. Alongside the little blurbs about each character that taught me about a surplus of Nintendo characters and games I had never heard of as a kid.

I think though I'd be perfectly satisfied if we just added trophies for specific characters with existing roles in the game. Add fighters, maybe bosses and assist trophies and then you can honestly call it a day. We can still roll with spirits if you wanna represent a metric ton of other characters in the easiest possible way, but for the characters with major roles in the game I think they should still make an effort to tie them back to their toyetic roots. That seems like a fair compromise, to me.
Honestly, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels like Smash Bros. has been losing the "plot" with Trophies over the years. At the very least, I wish they kept the information blurbs for Spirits, as it certainly helped me feel all the more invested in what these characters' deals were all about.

What I find interesting is that, according to Sakurai himself, the concept of Trophies in Smash Bros. hasn't been TOTALLY dropped, given how (according to him, at least) every Spirit in Smash Ultimate WAS formerly a trophy prior to Galeem's onslaught.

Not only that, but Sora's reveal trailer also reinforced the Trophy concept too. Heck, said reveal trailer finally confirmed for me that even alternate-skin characters have their own separate trophy forms (Leaf, the pink-haired female Villager, and the male Wii Fit Trainer were seen alongside their default incarnations).

(Dear God... the more I think about it, the more I wonder... just how many toys does this child HAVE???)

I'd be down with this viewing of it if the connection was stronger. When it comes to stuff like trophies (or just dolls in Smash 64) there were other elements that pushed the toys-to-life idea, such as the bedroom in 64, the living room table in Melee, the trophy shop in Smash Wii U, etc. There's nothing intrinsically connecting spirits to the toys-to-life idea aside from the spirits being pre-existing art, but there's nothing that implies that the art itself is tied to the whole child imagination like there is with trophies. This is why the idea of turning spirits into collectable cards would significantly strengthen that thematic connection.
It's funny, when Sakurai first revealed his gaming setup at his (other?) house during the Min Min presentation, I instantly noticed that said setup looked STRIKINGLY similar to Melee's trophy... living room? Trophy DEN??

For real, is that a living room or a den in Melee??? I legit can't tell.

Yeah, I kinda miss the concept of characters coming to life from toys and figures. I thought it looked pretty cool when Mario came to life from his Trophy in the intro from Melee:

If I'm being honest, I think this is why the intros to Smash 64 and Melee have stuck with me for as long as they have. The concept of the Smash Bros. cast (playable and non-playable alike) actually being nothing but toys coming to life will never not be a fascinating approach to me.

For that matter, I'm still holding out hope for a new Smash Bros. intro that actually leans into the "toys-come-to-life" concept again.

My headcannon is that the Super Smash Bros. takes place in a nested universe. Canonically, everything is people playing with toys or imagining shenanigans for their figures to get up to, but it's also canonically a big 'ol world within this imagination where characters act like you'd expect them to for the most part.
Given Sakurai's occasional mentions of the 'world of imagination' being where Smash Bros. takes place, I think your headcanon of the Smash Bros. world being some 'interconnected reality' where all of these characters reside might be more rooted in confirmed canon than you think.
 
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Guynamednelson

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So I just 13.0.3 ? Anything new I should know about or is it just backend stuff
Can anyone confirm there's actually a patch out? Because the Smash Wiki isn't updating any, I'd think they'd update in a jiffy if a real patch did come out.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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This is quite possibly the single most random update they could have done at the most random time.
Especially since it was to fix a bug with GSP not updating in some specific circumstances from what I can gather.

Wonder how long it's been like that now that I know it got fixed lol
 

SharkLord

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I have a question - Dark Souls has been tossed around as a potentially overlooked candidate quite a bit, but what's the situation on someone from Bloodborne? From what I can gather, that game's equally beloved and brought a lot of attention to the Soulslike genre. That said, I think it's co-owned by Sony to some degree. I know they at least published it, but I'm not sure if it's an Astral Chain situation where they own it entirely, or if they just own distribution rights to the game and FromSoft owns the IP itself. Sony's started making a couple of their games multiplat as of recent, such as LEGO Horizons, so it's probably not impossible to deal with them, but depending on the exact ownership details it might complicate things a fair bit.
 

Schnee117

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I have a question - Dark Souls has been tossed around as a potentially overlooked candidate quite a bit, but what's the situation on someone from Bloodborne? From what I can gather, that game's equally beloved and brought a lot of attention to the Soulslike genre. That said, I think it's co-owned by Sony to some degree. I know they at least published it, but I'm not sure if it's an Astral Chain situation where they own it entirely, or if they just own distribution rights to the game and FromSoft owns the IP itself. Sony's started making a couple of their games multiplat as of recent, such as LEGO Horizons, so it's probably not impossible to deal with them, but depending on the exact ownership details it might complicate things a fair bit.
Sony own the IP and haven't done anything with it outside of Astro Bot cameos even though it's the one PS4 game people actually want a remaster of.
 

Ivander

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I have a question - Dark Souls has been tossed around as a potentially overlooked candidate quite a bit, but what's the situation on someone from Bloodborne? From what I can gather, that game's equally beloved and brought a lot of attention to the Soulslike genre. That said, I think it's co-owned by Sony to some degree. I know they at least published it, but I'm not sure if it's an Astral Chain situation where they own it entirely, or if they just own distribution rights to the game and FromSoft owns the IP itself. Sony's started making a couple of their games multiplat as of recent, such as LEGO Horizons, so it's probably not impossible to deal with them, but depending on the exact ownership details it might complicate things a fair bit.
I'm pretty sure Sony 100% owns Bloodborne since I think both Sony staff and From Software staff worked on it together, compared to Astral Chain which was made mainly by Platinum Games IIRC.
 

Borskaboska

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I have a question - Dark Souls has been tossed around as a potentially overlooked candidate quite a bit, but what's the situation on someone from Bloodborne? From what I can gather, that game's equally beloved and brought a lot of attention to the Soulslike genre. That said, I think it's co-owned by Sony to some degree. I know they at least published it, but I'm not sure if it's an Astral Chain situation where they own it entirely, or if they just own distribution rights to the game and FromSoft owns the IP itself. Sony's started making a couple of their games multiplat as of recent, such as LEGO Horizons, so it's probably not impossible to deal with them, but depending on the exact ownership details it might complicate things a fair bit.
Heres my take, but i imagine others might disagree: If a fromsoft character is to get in at all, it basically HAS to be the chosen undead from og darksouls. Darksouls has SO permeated the public zeitgeist, there is a reason we say "Souls-Like" and I've never heard anyone say "Bloodborne-Like". Additionally, the From Soft games are heavily associated with the 'slow, methodical, sword-and shield' based combat style that it would feel a little weird to represent it with one of the faster oriented titles. Like, that style of combat is pretty iconic to darksouls in a way that I think sakurai and team would want to capitalize on. Im not saying that Bloodborne doesnt also have good combat, I'm just saying that darksouls-style 'dodge rolling around the enemy and then taking 5 seconds to swing your sword into their back' is more remembered by the general gaming audience.
 
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ninjahmos

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Sure.

As long as that new game has EiH2.


Look man, if you don't want any characters to get cut, that's fine and I completely understand the sentiment. But sooner or later, you'll have to face the music.

Most of us have already agreed that it might be time to move on from Ultimate. And let me quote myself from earlier:

If the series keeps going on without making any cuts, it's just gonna grow stagnant and stale. Plus, it'd be kind of a waste of resources, especially if characters who need reworks (like Ganondorf) keep their old movesets over and over again.
I think we already made it clear that not cutting anyone for the next game isn't realistic or reasonable, and EiH2 isn't gonna have the same impact.

I'm not going to argue with you on this any further, because that would be pointless.
 
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Ivander

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Bloodborne is neat, but it would be really odd if it wasn't a character from either Dark Souls or the new hotness in Elden Ring.
So we get Chosen Undead as a Namco rep, the Hunter as a Sony rep and, since From Software now owns Elden Ring, Malenia as a From Software rep.

What's surprising is that while all 3 are from games with a similar gameplay, they would play uniquely from each other(Chosen Undead has his sword and shield, spells and the shield parry system, the Hunter has his weapons that transform as well as guns that can be used to stun foes if timed right and Malenia is a Boss character with access to swift swordplay, her Scarlet Rot and her phantom spirits).
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Good thing you're not the developers then 🤷
Neither are you? I don't understand what the point of even saying this was lmao

Also, when the main guy in charge of the whole project says "Everyone Is Here is unlikely to happen again in future titles because it was a massive undertaking", I tend to believe him until proven otherwise lol

Like it's one thing to think Sakurai might change his mind and do it anyway, that's fine, he's done it before for things like Villager and Ridley. It's another thing entirely to think anyone getting cut is a ludicrous idea when we've basically been told not to expect everyone back next time lol
 
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SharkLord

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I'm pretty sure Sony 100% owns Bloodborne since I think both Sony staff and From Software staff worked on it together, compared to Astral Chain which was made mainly by Platinum Games IIRC.
Ah, so it's basically a Sony collab. I think I remembered reading that Sony's Japan Studio initially pitched the idea, but I wasn't sure on the exact specifics.

So we get Chosen Undead as a Namco rep, the Hunter as a Sony rep and, since From Software now owns Elden Ring, Malenia as a From Software rep.

What's surprising is that while all 3 are from games with a similar gameplay, they would play uniquely from each other(Chosen Undead has his sword and shield, spells and the shield parry system, the Hunter has his weapons that transform as well as guns that can be used to stun foes if timed right and Malenia is a Boss character with access to swift swordplay, her Scarlet Rot and her phantom spirits).
Y'know, I knew Dark Souls was owned by Bandai-Namco and made by FromSoft, so I kinda assumed that went for the rest of the Soulsborne games. Kinda funny that the whole metaseries is scattered across multiple companies.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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Neither are you? I don't understand what the point of even saying this was lmao

Also, when the main guy in charge of the whole project says "Everyone Is Here is unlikely to happen again in future titles because it was a massive undertaking", I tend to believe him until proven otherwise lol

Like it's one thing to think Sakurai might change his mind and do it anyway, that's fine, he's done it before for things like Villager and Ridley. It's another thing entirely to think anyone getting cut is a ludicrous idea when we've basically been told not to expect everyone back next time lol
So did he say that it's unlikely or did he officially announce it and I totally missed that?
Why don't we wait for something to actually have happened before giving it for a fact? 😕
 

Ivander

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Y'know, I knew Dark Souls was owned by Bandai-Namco and made by FromSoft, so I kinda assumed that went for the rest of the Soulsborne games. Kinda funny that the whole metaseries is scattered across multiple companies.
Like I said once, I think the game that would get so much buzz if it happened was if it was a Nintendo X FromSoftware game. Regardless of whether it's a game for an existing Nintendo franchise like Zelda or an original game.
 

DarthEnderX

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Look man, if you don't want any characters to get cut, that's fine and I completely understand the sentiment.
Good.

But sooner or later, you'll have to face the music.
No I don't.

And let me quote myself from earlier:
You can if you want. But repeating your opinion doesn't make it any more right.

I think we already made it clear that not cutting anyone for the next game isn't realistic or reasonable
It wasn't realistic or reasonable for Ultimate either. Nobody was expecting it to happen.

Until it did.

Also, when the main guy in charge of the whole project says "Everyone Is Here is unlikely to happen again in future titles because it was a massive undertaking", I tend to believe him until proven otherwise lol
Except when people take "unlikely" to mean "definitely not", that's not actually believing what he said.
 
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AinsOoalGown

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Most of us have already agreed that it might be time to move on from Ultimate. And let me quote myself from earlier:
You and a dozen users who barely or dont play the game, repeating for years the same subjective opinion as fact over and over, without change, as a weekly ritual (or what other sites call, a "circlejrk") does not make a single type of consensus, It doesnt matter if you repeat it every few weeks for years like this weird cognitive reinforcement ritual, its always disgusting to see tiny groups trying to pull ad populum out of thin air.


You go back tons of pages, years-worth and its an unchanged echo chamber who cant get over how it needs to be a reboot and just finding new excuses for how "bad" the most popular entry in the series is and how they shouldnt follow it because half a dozen fans think its either that or ganondorf doesnt change his downb. Even the bad excuses to justify it (like pretending old character reworks are impossible in new editions of fighting games or in close-ish games) but its just a couple users wanting to cut other peoples favorite character under the delusion that its totally gonna give away to the special headcanon game you made up in the head (when factually, the people who mix up possiblility with it magically making your game to replace the one you disliked are going to be by FAR the biggest detractors if a clean slate happens as none of your changes happen, your main gets either cut or changed harshly and the new mechanics and monetization dont work for you, its always like that, then the same power users repeating this empty chant of a game they dont play and not allowing even discussing other options will make sure the devs regret following it)

Neither are you? I don't understand what the point of even saying this was lmao
His point seems to be that you dampen a speculation thread by taking a possibility, lying about what it entails, and, as it happens with toxic yet small echochambers, turn it into confirmed fact (wich its not) to silence productive discussions that arent some weird sickly obsession with "cut-counting", and pretends to want said possibility, since roster fans have a really hard time differentiating predicting something from it being fact, or from wishing it in speculation for some reason (to the point when they get angry when predicted things dont happen even if they wouldnt want it), and then the same few people repeat the same few things daily as some bizarre cognitive loop instead of building any real discussion or even entertaining possibility.
Theres a reason devs like Sakurai never listen to echochambers even if it wasnt half a dozen power-users repeating the same thing non stop without growth or development for 1000 pages, this thread is something else. And acting passive-agressively when users dont take possibility as undeniable "objective fact" in a SPECULATION thread doesnt seem like a fair answer to that. Specially when said speculation is forced to move away from healthy newcomers/gameplay/stage etc and its just "I wanna cuts and its totally not because of one missing character/move that Im salty at 6 years later" repeated non stop and not building into any new insight, on the vain hope that doing it enough times will stop those pesky "diverging opinions"


You can if you want. But repeating your opinion doesn't make it any more right.
An issue with small forums is this echochamber/circlejrk "feedback loop" state where the same few keep bringing the same unchanged opinion daily, until dissent gives up, so they decide the opinion is fact and get hostile against the few non-cultlike answers left. Some redditor like mentality of needing to keep stating the same opinion because if they see it enough they think wrongly everybody agrees its now accepted.

The forum got really small in recent years and power users dont seem to like using much else so this thread ends overloaded with it, where a possibility that many predicted but didnt want (a clean slate or mass cut) suddenly becomes both wanted and the only option even tho most the internet will at least be unhappy with it (it helps most smash fans arent hypnotized by this weird feedback loop going on here), like repeating enough times what one think will magically cut all the characters they dont want and have the next game tailor made with every mode and newcomer they dreamed up 10 years ago.
Then you mix in that some people have a really hard time separating wanting from believing in things, as separate concepts and the people who got salty at brawl, 4, or Ultimate over some minutia and it really makes for poor discussion
 
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RodNutTakin

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,012
Personally my only hangup with Ultimate Deluxe is addressing the problem of "a good amount of potential fighters are stuck in Assist Trophy purgatory".
Maybe that's the kind of situation where doing a "Fortnite Chapter 2" scenario would be done instead of a straight "Deluxe" game. Rip out Ultimate's character and stage roster and paste it into a game with rebalanced gameplay, a reworked item, AT and Pokeball list, and a redone set of available modes. And obviously, rebalanced characters (probably a couple changed a bit entirely).
Two different flavors of Ultimate.
 
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fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,679
Location
Scotland
In that case you might as well look for copies of 64 and Melee on eBay if you don’t have them already, because there’s no way the next game’s skipping out on online entirely.
Just go break your router.
you know that's just rude. I was responding to a joke post, I could not be more clearly joking. yet you both go savage. if you get that defensive over online gaming then maybe you both need to take a step back from it
 
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