Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Btw whats your opinion On Zelda being smol in the next game?
So either its these:
View attachment 391414View attachment 391415

Or these:

View attachment 391416

With Champion Link, Ganondorf, Impa and others you want?

I dont Know i would love to see the small links being less treated as outliers and i mean zelda is only playable as toon or downfall version!
I just think its weird having link, ganon, zelda and impa from totk Personally!

Was thinking about this actually. I think we can have a comprised version here. Link and Ganondorf being styled after Tears of the Kingdom, Link having abilities being more diverged from these games, not all too much different from Ultimate Link, but still. Ganondorf being a mutli weapon user with brute strength and magic as shown in TotK.

And then this version of Link being a sort of middle ground version between Young Link and Toon Link, moving more towards Toon Link cause he's more balanced, but not floaty like Young Link is, and him serving as the more "typical Link". Bow, Boomerang, Bombs and Spin Attack, whilst revamping Link himself more. Make him a little heavier and slower than the child Links but not heavy like regular Link typically has been. This gives a whole different style of Link that's basically an amalgamation of all types of Link we had before in Smash.

Then have Zelda be both based of TotK and Echoes, moreso Echoes but with TotK light magic abilities and alt. costume. I don't known if we should throw out all other Specials aside from Phantom Slash for Echo Summon, but it's a start maybe. Normals using the staff would also be good considering Zelda is almost helplessly weak in her normals always.

Then as newcomers, Impa and Ganon. Classic ones that are long overdue and will actually stand the test of time, unlike certain other Zelda characters. They'd be very unique additions with Impa's Sheikah abilities, weaponry and short sword, and Ganon a heavy weight trident magic user more or less with strong defensive play and projectiles. Can't go wrong with them in terms of fighting abilities and as potential newcomers that are well known and actually stick around in the franchise, a thing that withheld onetime Zelda characters from the roster.

Honestly not sure what to do with Sheik afterwards. I think she could stay but she'd be sticking out as a weird one between the rest. I wouldn't object to her being cut too much, considering her being less of an important character overall compared to the rest.

 

[Sucumbio]

Whats with sheik?

Idkwym like what's with her chances coming back? I dunno probably 75 % yes

 

[Curious Villager]

Was thinking about this actually. I think we can have a comprised version here. Link and Ganondorf being styled after Tears of the Kingdom, Link having abilities being more diverged from these games, not all too much different from Ultimate Link, but still. Ganondorf being a mutli weapon user with brute strength and magic as shown in TotK.

And then this version of Link being a sort of middle ground version between Young Link and Toon Link, moving more towards Toon Link cause he's more balanced, but not floaty like Young Link is, and him serving as the more "typical Link". Bow, Boomerang, Bombs and Spin Attack, whilst revamping Link himself more. Make him a little heavier and slower than the child Links but not heavy like regular Link typically has been. This gives a whole different style of Link that's basically an amalgamation of all types of Link we had before in Smash.

Then have Zelda be both based of TotK and Echoes, moreso Echoes but with TotK light magic abilities and alt. costume. I don't known if we should throw out all other Specials aside from Phantom Slash for Echo Summon, but it's a start maybe. Normals using the staff would also be good considering Zelda is almost helplessly weak in her normals always.

Then as newcomers, Impa and Ganon. Classic ones that are long overdue and will actually stand the test of time, unlike certain other Zelda characters. They'd be very unique additions with Impa's Sheikah abilities, weaponry and short sword, and Ganon a heavy weight trident magic user more or less with strong defensive play and projectiles. Can't go wrong with them in terms of fighting abilities and as potential newcomers that are well known and actually stick around in the franchise, a thing that withheld onetime Zelda characters from the roster.

Honestly not sure what to do with Sheik afterwards. I think she could stay but she'd be sticking out as a weird one between the rest. I wouldn't object to her being cut too much, considering her being less of an important character overall compared to the rest.

Honestly, I think that's a pretty good lineup for the Zelda series, and the more games reinclude Ganon and Impa again, the more they start to feel like big omissions from the Smash roster that should have been in a long time ago. Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds replanted the seeds back when they reintroduced those characters after their long absences, but they've been slowly inching in with more prominence again over time.

I've been liking these new memes fans been doing with Ganon and Zelda, and they've been trying new things with old Impa too from the looks of things in the new game. Hopefully the new game will do them both wonders.

 

[dream1ng]

I don't relish losing characters but at this point it would also do the fanbase some good to realize Smash's roster isn't sacrosanct and cuts, even substantial cuts, are just part of the territory of sequels. The speculation around a Deluxe Ultimate seems more like bargaining to put off the inevitable than an outcome which is as likely as some frame it to be.

I've already droned on the discussion of port v new from the technical side, so I'll just say that Nintendo's MO isn't to provide a port when they can provide a new title. They're supplemental. Yes, sometimes we receive ports prior to the new title if it's not ready, or remakes to gauge interest in series they may not have full confidence in, but for a series like Smash, where there's no doubt of its commercial potential and they can put out a new title probably within the timeframe they usually do, releasing a port instead would be uncharacteristic.

One of the big reasons is because new titles may cost more to make, but they also sell a lot more as well, all else being equal.

The Switch in general is also going to skew the frequency of recent ports. Given how few people played the Wii U titles it was basically like releasing them for an actual sizeable audience for the first time. That and at the beginning, they were desperate for a steady, strong and frequent lineup. Hence Mario Kart in the second month of the system, despite the next one not being ready. It may also be why Ultimate just picked up from where Smash 4 left off, data-wise. Ports/remakes/remasters will ofc still happen going forward, but don't expect as much of the Switch's library to just get Deluxe'd as the Wii U's did.

But it's a good point that releasing a smaller roster won't make Ultimate evaporate. The good news is you'll always be able to play as your favorite fighter, it just might not happen in every game. But that's just a staple of the genre and development. Perpetual expansion without eventual culling just isn't tenable.

 

[DarthEnderX]

An echo chamber that consists of him and him alone since he keeps refusing to listen to counterarguments from this very thread.

Yeah! How dare guy in echo chamber not listen to...other echo chamber.

An Ultimate Deluxe would heavily prevent new faces, new content, and the Switch era in general from showing itself and building its own legacy.

Didn't stop MK8D from doing all those things.

I feel like I’m the only one here that wants Hyrule Warriors Impa the most.

You aren't. I'm pretty even split between HW and AoC Impa.

Smash will be fine no matter what route it takes in the next entry. As long as it has "Smash" in its title, it'll sell primarily based on that.

Yup.

All the excuses of "Fans aren't gonna want to buy-" yes they will. Yes. They will.

They will buy it because it's more Smash.

Just like the last 2 main Pokemon games were dragged through the mud...and were still some of the bestselling games in the series.

After playing the same Mario Kart for a decade I’ve become generally uninterested in the concept of porting the same game for years on end.

Not me. MK8D has been my favorite MK experience, by a wiiiide margin. And the more they add to it, the better it gets.

A game that starts that process over has an almost 0% of surpassing that experience.

 

[dream1ng]

How dare guy in echo chamber not listen to...other echo chamber.

It's not an echo chamber to say Smash 6 will sell better than Ultimate Deluxe. By and large, people are less likely to buy something they already own, even a different version of it, than something totally new.

That's why no Pokemon remake has sold better than the new gen on the same system. Even when they put Pikachu or Charizard on the cover.

And it's certainly not an echo chamber to dispute Smash 6 somehow being a risky endeavor. That's not even suggesting people would prefer an Ultimate Deluxe, that's suggesting people would outright reject a new Smash. That's ludicrous.

Remember when people "rejected" Sword/Shield? Yeah, real sales crater that was.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To me, a good lineup for Zelda will always be Link, Sheik, Zelda, Ganondorf, at least one Child Link, and then we can talk about other interesting additions;

Pig Ganon, Impa, Tingle, they're all major characters who earned a spot into Smash ages ago. Impa took a bit longer than the rest, sure, but she's still there. It really wasn't till OOT that we knew she could perform any kind of action beyond talking, and many games showed her battle capable since then(and not just as a younger take, like how OOT somewhat is, or SS, or AoC. Oracle games showed her first time as being clearly a lot older than some, and then there's what's shown in Echoes, where an even more elderly Impa can clearly fight. Being she's 120 in at least one game, she's clearly a long runner life-wise and still can bring out the pain. Though by then, she may finally hit the brittle bones of ages, but we're talking about 120 vs something like 50 anyway).

Pig Ganon has yet to properly show up in his most popular design even as a minor appearance. Where he's actually a smart version of the character, not purely a brute. He actually uses magic significantly more than Ganondorf does(who is actually more interested in physical attacks these days, with OOT being the only game he... focuses even slightly on magic in comparison), so he's the perfect Magical take on it. Tingle is eccentric and the sole Zelda character with their own personal spin-off that isn't tied to Hyrule at least, but does its own thing. While we still have the CD-i games, those are basically Zelda playing as Link and not even made by Nintendo or something they wanted. Hell, HW gave Zelda different skills that aren't Link rehashed, just like Echoes of Wisdom does(and slightly in ST, since the Phantom Knight is not basically Link redone. It's still a cheesy way to play as Zelda, but it does have something of unique merit to it).

And there's tons of other popular choices too, but those three are the most prominent characters not playable as of yet. Add any of them, and you have a far more complete roster. While Tingle is my top choice, I feel the other two should come first. Pig Ganon to have a more proper counterpart to Ganondorf's brute, Impa to have a completely different take on someone who can train Zelda, with Tingle coming in last mainly cause his skills are a bit more awkward to properly convey. Though to be fair, he's the only one who could just be his own franchise in the way Wario is, since he's very disconnected in his own games(though some stuff still is within the world, but to be fair, that Tingle does travel to Hyrule anyway. The one in MM is a different person altogether). That said, Tingle was always given less roles compared to the other two, so I don't see him being as likely as them to get in. At one point, sure. He was at the tip of his popularity and had major prominence. Impa on the other hand was barely there(and the original Pig Ganon(yes, we mean the blue one from ALTTP specifically) saw practically no use outside of FSA, even), but things changed. Impa sees the most use, Pig Ganon definitely shows up a decent amount of times, and Tingle fell the wayside. It could just be due to the West not liking him nearly as much(not to say he's hyper unpopular nowadays. It's a bit exaggerated in that regard. He still has a slew of haters, but it's simply lessened. HW including him did pretty well, but it's mainly for the fans who want to actually use him outside of the minor part of WW, which is where his hatred started too).

But yeah, who knows what will happen. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's just 5 characters, with either Toon Link or Young Link coming back, or them switching to the newest younger Link design even(that said, the newest one also would require an all new moveset, as it's not the same or even close to the same bodyshape as any of the three Links. He'd still obviously use assets from the child versions and regular Link, but he's not a copy-paste either way. He's even less similar to any of them than Toon Link was to Young Link, who basically wasn't much different from how Young Link had a changed bodyframe from Link. Meanwhile Toon Link and Young Link do share a fairly similar body, hence why the latter was used to help create him as found in the datamines).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ultimate is almost 6 years old. At some point people will grow tired of the status quo and want something fresh to look forward to.

World of Warcraft is 20 years old. Nobody in the WoW community is asking for WoW2.

People here underestimate how much you can add to a game through DLC. And overestimate how enthusiastic people are for 'starting over'.

Ultimate will always be around, it’ll always be the one with the gigantonormous roster, and whenever you want that you can always pop it into your Switch 2.

But you won't be able to play your favorite Ultimate characters against the Smash 6 characters.

And when you want something new and different, that’s what Smash 6 is for!

I'd get the exact same benefit from more Ultimate DLC.

Granted, MvCI's roster was even smaller and people hated that, but unless they cut the entire Metroid, F-Zero, EarthBound, and Star Fox cast for no reason (EDIT: and the game's visual style is fundamentally flawed) I think we'll be fine there.

MvCI also had the problems of looking terrible, and people prefer MvC to be 3v3, rather than 2v2+gems.

And to add, an Ultimate Deluxe would likely only give us the bare essentials.

An assumption based on nothing. MK8D eventually doubled the content of the original.

 

[NintenRob]

My choice for new Zelda character will always be Skull Kid. Majora's Mask is my favourite game.


And don't forget, he got his own dedicated DLC in Cadence of Hyrule, and I wouldn't rule him out of showing up in Echoes of Wisdom given the familiar faces we see

 

[Sucumbio]

I want Midna and a retuned Ganondorf with TotK vibes

 

[Noipoi]

I'd get the exact same benefit from more Ultimate DLC.

Yeah but you’re stubborn.

When I say I want a new Smash I mean I want new menus, new modes, new single player stuff, new character renders, new freakin fonts on the UI.

I’m talking about new vibes. All the stuff that makes the game feel different from the last installment.

Ultimate Deluxe would just be Ultimate again, the same game I’ve already had for six years. I kinda want a new experience.

And I know you don’t, but that’s okay. We can have different opinions, it won’t hurt anyone

 

[DarthEnderX]

When I say I want a new Smash I mean I want new menus, new modes, new single player stuff, new character renders, new freakin fonts on the UI.

New modes and single player stuff can also be added through DLC.

Not really sure why you care about new menus and...fonts. But you do you I guess.

Ultimate Deluxe would just be Ultimate again, the same game I’ve already had for six years. I kinda want a new experience.

Try telling WoW players that Cataclysm was just "vanilla WoW again".

 

[Noipoi]

New modes and single player stuff can also be added through DLC.

It wouldn’t be though. Be real, you really think they’ll add a new single player campaign as a dlc update?

Not really sure why you care about new menus and...fonts. But you do you I guess.

Different aesthetic touches give each game its own distinct vibe, dude. I could go on for a while about the feeling evoked by the UI’s in different games.

I’m an artist, visual stuff is what I’m all about brotha

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Uh, yeah, remakes and ports do not actually sell more than new games on average. And that makes sense. People don't want stagnation. And it's not just cause of really poor way Diamond/Pearl were brought over, it still sold really damn well. It's that Sword and Shield were outright new materials. Stuff like Dexit, while a bit more prominent than most stuff, ultimately didn't impact the game's sells that much. It understandably was annoyed at for some clear issues with graphics(though exaggerated a lot) and it definitely felt bareboned in some areas(houses that are nothing more than a model you can't fully interact with. In many cases, at least there are story reasons for it in a lot of games. ...This was just there to fill the space in the cities and nothing more).

Usually, when I see a game with a house that only "exists", this is either because it's an older NES game where there's not enough data to justify a constant house being there, or it's something like the town is in ruins or haunted, etc. In other words, it makes sense and they build around the limitations or make the story so it makes sense you can't do that.

It has its issues. But it's still a new game in the series with tons of new unique content that people loved. The only reasons Mario Kart 8 Deluxe did that well is...

• Wii U in itself did poorly. Normally Mario Kart 8 otherwise would've been a golden seller like other consoles.
• We didn't have a proper Mario Kart 9 outside of Tour, which wasn't even on the Switch. And it wasn't something everyone could get into. Gacha will always be controversial.
• It was able to retool fairly easy to stuff to port over, including heavily from Tour.

But that's also ignoring, once again, that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe was easy to port over due to basically being 1st party content with very few 3rd party pieces in any way. I.E. The Mercedes Car pack, which was licensed to use in 8 Deluxe anyway. But it's also not that much 3rd party content, now is it? Exactly. That's little to license. Also, being DLC means licensing it for a new system can be easy if the timing works out. The Switch was already on its way and it was a 3 year window. Which means obviously the timing would've been not so bad. Notably, they talked about the codename NX in 2015, so barely a year later, which means development-wise, it would've been started by then.

But that also means another thing; at that point, they could justify this kind of licensing for two games. Just like they could do that for 4's DLC and Ultimate. Which may also apply to the Pass 2 being licensed for two games, including Smash 6. However, there's a caveat; this only assumes it was started the project plan early enough. Smash 6 could be a far later release too than normal. It may not have been a case where the general Pass 2 was close enough. Sora might be the only one within that timing window even. Yes, it's possible he could be the only character licensed for Smash 6 at the same time as DLC. That's how harsh it could be. And it's even possible Smash 6's project plan started even later than that. We just don't know. That said, we'll find out about the next console pretty soon, closer to the end of this year. Will Smash 6 be a starting game? Or will it be later on? Considering how late the DLC went into, it's possible we're still looking at around 2-3 years for a new game to show up. Besides, if it's backwards compatible(which notably the Switch was not to the Wii U), there's no chance they'll port Ultimate over since it's a waste of money and time to reformat it, even with a pretty tiny amount of new content. Other than having to re-license everything, it has to, as I said also before, be highly pricey to even it out. It ain't going to be less than 70 dollars, period, and that's the nicest option we could get. And before other kinds of DLC. But yeah, ultimately, it's not worth the business. Remakes and Ports are not as golden sellers as new games unless the new game is absolutely horrible in comparison(which wasn't the case, as the Diamond/Pearl remakes, to continue the example, were actually worse games than Sword/Shield too. Sword/Shield were a bit bad, though not actually bad, but nowhere near problematic in design choices). We have lots of data, and remakes generally don't have a leg up on new games. Street Fighter II should've taught people that, where the only reason it even worked was cause DLC wasn't a thing yet. Once we got DLC, people preferred that over constant new games that are just upgraded ports, because one was significantly cheaper.

Ultimate's only chance, that said, of continuing at this point was if the DLC wasn't over. But it is. And yeah, Ultimate was fun, but it's time to move onto fresher new things. I'm not a fan of stagnation either. I'm okay with cuts. Yes, some are silly cut ideas too that have no real chance of happening(outside of, well, a massive cutdown on the entire roster where we're talking closer to 30 characters), but having them in general? It's expected.

 

[dream1ng]

World of Warcraft is 20 years old. Nobody in the WoW community is asking for WoW2.

People in that fanbase were also happier when they released a version that cut out extreme amounts of newer content, so I'm not sure they're an example you want to roll with. In that parallel, they wouldn't even want Ultimate Deluxe, they would want Melee HD.

People here underestimate how much you can add to a game through DLC. And overestimate how enthusiastic people are for 'starting over'

How enthusiastic people are for starting over is witnessed in actual sales when you offer them something old versus something new on the same platform. Skews heavily to the latter.

If what you were saying is true, there would be no need to release any actual new games once you had a few successful ones. Actually not just that, but that it would make better business sense to not release new games. I mean, new games are more expensive to develop, where would the sense be to make them if the older cheaper thing will sell better?

In fact, how'd we even get to five (or, sort of, six) original Smash games and zero ports, in that case?

 

[Perkilator]

Listen, I don't usually wanna jump on the "ungrateful" train, but this constant insistence of Ultimate Deluxe and what not genuinely comes across to me as this. It's best to move on from Ultimate.

 

[Sucumbio]

I wonder if a second DLC pack for FE3H would have been "better" than Engage ended up being... I remember when Radiant Dawn had been out a while ppl were like yeah it's time to move on from Tellius ...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Be real, you really think they’ll add a new single player campaign as a dlc update?

Not really. But I do think WoL could get map expansions.

People in that fanbase were also happier when they released a version that cut out extreme amounts of newer content, so I'm not sure they're an example you want to roll with.

That's a pretty blatant misrepresentation of the situation. Mainline WoW has a lot more players than Classic. Only minority of people in that fanbase were happier when they released Classic.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If they didn't feel the need to port Smash 4 after the failure of the Wii U like Mario Kart did, and instead decided to build off of it as a base and make something new, I really don't see a reason why they should port Ultimate rather than just make a new game.

And everyone that I know that plays Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and loves that game is also super ready to move on to something new, and there's practically no debate on if they're gonna make a new one or port Deluxe AGAIN despite its financial success outside of memes, so like...

Especially if the Switch 2 is backwards-compatible, because then there's even LESS reason to port it.

 

[dream1ng]

That's a pretty blatant misrepresentation of the situation. Mainline WoW has a lot more players than Classic. Only minority of people in that fanbase were happier when they released Classic.

Oh so more players are playing the thing with the new content, then.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Realtalk, an "Ultimate Deluxe" would just be a re-release of Ultimate on the Switch at a premium price that comes bundled with both Fighter Passes' content.

 

[Perkilator]

Real talk, I think I'm gonna step away from honest Smash speculation until the next game is announced. Right now, speculation has done nothing but keep going in circles over and over again and it's not fun for me anymore.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Oh so more players are playing the thing with the new content, then.

Right. The new content which is all DLC for the original game.

They aren't playing WoW2. They're playing WoW Deluxe Deluxe Deluxe Deluxe.


Which is exactly my point. New DLC can be just as much new content as a new game. It all depends on what the devs are willing to add.

Realtalk, an "Ultimate Deluxe" would just be a re-release of Ultimate on the Switch at a premium price that comes bundled with both Fighter Passes' content.

Realtalk: Pure speculation.

And unfounded speculation based on MK8 Deluxe or Pokken DX.

 

[Noipoi]

Real talk, I think I'm gonna step away from honest Smash speculation until the next game is announced. Right now, speculation has done nothing but keep going in circles over and over again and it's not fun for me anymore.

You’re probably a smarter man than me

 

[Guynamednelson]

People here underestimate how much you can add to a game through DLC. And overestimate how enthusiastic people are for 'starting over'.

People here overestimate how many people buy DLC. Some of the biggest games and sleeper hits of last year were, in fact, NOT about DLC or microtransactions or "**** you, wanna chicken nugget?" in any way, except for their "digital deluxe" upgrades.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Realtalk, an "Ultimate Deluxe" would just be a re-release of Ultimate on the Switch at a premium price that comes bundled with both Fighter Passes' content.

Costumes are the only thing that could become paid DLC, but then again, I expect the price to be 70-80 with that much massive content, so it might be an exception. Especially with the tons of licensing fees for most of the content bar Pass 2(or just Sora) returning.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Realtalk, an "Ultimate Deluxe" would just be a re-release of Ultimate on the Switch at a premium price that comes bundled with both Fighter Passes' content.

I wish they would do something like this.

I am not looking forward to needing to set up the necesary tools to get the DLC characters running once the inevitable closure of the switch eshop happens.

 

[Shinuto]

I want EiH for the next game, or a deluxe port so that al the DLC characters wont end up eventually STUCK on a game that one day will not be able to get the DLC on when the switch online is gone.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I want EiH for the next game, or a deluxe port so that al the DLC characters wont end up eventually STUCK on a game that one day will not be able to get the DLC on when the switch online is gone.

This is a weird train of thought to me because if they add DLC to the port (like Mario Kart did with the Booster Course Pass) then you just have the exact same problem again. Do you just keep porting Ultimate ad infinitum at that point? Because I imagine it would happen every time.

Not to mention it's been 3 years since the DLC ended with Sora, so anyone that wanted it has likely already bought it, and if we're talking new players... Why are they buying an old Smash game that you can't play online anymore in the first place?

 

[Gorgonzales]

Real talk, I think I'm gonna step away from honest Smash speculation until the next game is announced. Right now, speculation has done nothing but keep going in circles over and over again and it's not fun for me anymore.

I want to do the same but I don't know if I have the willpower haha. What you said is true though... we can only ask ourselves the same set of questions so many times before it becomes boring.

 

[Shinuto]

This is a weird train of thought to me because if they add DLC to the port (like Mario Kart did with the Booster Course Pass) then you just have the exact same problem again. Do you just keep porting Ultimate ad infinitum at that point? Because I imagine it would happen every time.

Not to mention it's been 3 years since the DLC ended with Sora, so anyone that wanted it has likely already bought it, and if we're talking new players... Why are they buying an old Smash game that you can't play online anymore in the first place?

What no? I just want them in the BASE game of ONE Smash game.

 

[dream1ng]

Right. The new content which is all DLC for the original game.

They aren't playing WoW2. They're playing WoW Deluxe Deluxe Deluxe Deluxe.


Which is exactly my point. New DLC can be just as much new content as a new game. It all depends on what the devs are willing to add.

Your point is Ultimate Deluxe would sell better than Smash 6, and in your example you provided neither a new release of an old game with new content nor a new game. Because even if we got a WoW2, and we looked at its sales, you can't liken that to Smash 6 vs Ultimate Deluxe, because Ultimate Deluxe wouldn't exist in this scenario; WoW1 would be Ultimate.

So you provided something that isn't the thing you said would sell better, nor the thing you said would sell worse. You provided an old game on an existing platform versus nothing. So in this paradigm, where the Switch 2 never arrives, sure, iterate on Ultimate forever. But when you move platforms, you also have to restart the install base either way. WoW doesn't.

If WoW was exclusive to consoles, not PC, do you think we'd have received the same game with a bit of new content each time since the sixth gen, with no new replacements? How many titles like that can you mention, where the sales trajectory doesn't decline?

This is why WoW is such a bad example, because of how poorly it fits to what you're actually arguing. But the fact that that is where you have to reach shows the dearth of better examples for your stance.

Which helps the opposing point.

Real talk, I think I'm gonna step away from honest Smash speculation until the next game is announced. Right now, speculation has done nothing but keep going in circles over and over again and it's not fun for me anymore.

That's fair. I take breaks too. And it is going to be mostly this until there's any actual info. Which, best case scenario, is probably like a year away. But it being even further out seems likelier. See you then!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What no? I just want them in the BASE game of ONE Smash game.

Good luck with that. Outside of a port with no new content.

The licensing is absurd for what they have to do to pull it off, and they can only at best get maybe 1-3 characters for both. The thing is, there's no way the timing could account for Pass 1.

That means they have to re-license a ton of stuff. Getting a straight port with all of it at 70-80 dollars is actually a damn good deal. 2/3 the price is nice. That said, it also won't be good enough and necessitate a new game. But yeah, 16 full out characters to license along with all their extra stuff(and Mii costumes and Spirits are still the IP characters likeness, so they aren't inherently cheap, though bundles help) is what they'd have to do anyway. That or 18. You can also count more with certain alts if you want(though Alex is treated as a frontliner too, but Hero's alts wouldn't be cheap either since they are actual characters).

I could go on, but it's very much not cheap to port over either. Nor is it cheap to make a new game with all of it. Some stuff may not even be allowed outside of DLC(like Sora). We don't know yet. It's complicated. So the idea they could all be for base is pretty unlikely, which even sucks for the idea of a quick port too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Right now, speculation has done nothing but keep going in circles over and over again and it's not fun for me anymore.

It is certainly a cycle.

1. Someone asks what people want/expect from the next Smash. Reasonable given that it's the thread topic.
2. I say I want/expect EiH2, because it is what I want/expect.
3. Someone feels the needs to write an essay about why that can't/won't/shouldn't happen. And says that fans/casuals/some other demographic they don't speak for wouldn't want that. Rather than just saying what they want/expect instead.
4. Me and other EiH2/Ulimate Deluxe supporters get annoyed at being condescended to and argues back.
5. Someone comments about how they're tired of us repeating our dissenting opinions, and should take them elsewhere, even as they continuously repeat their own, no more valid opinion.
6. Time passes. Then back to step one.

Your point is Ultimate Deluxe would sell better than Smash 6

No it's not. My point was that Ultimate Deluxe wouldn't definitely sell worse than Smash 6. Which is the point being suggested.

If WoW was exclusive to consoles, not PC, do you think we'd have received the same game with a bit of new content each time since the sixth gen, with no new replacements? How many titles like that can you mention, where the sales trajectory doesn't decline?

Final Fantasy 14? Which is now on it's 3rd console generation. Minecraft? Examples are rare(because few companies even try it), but they DO exist.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

MvCI also had the problems of looking terrible, and people prefer MvC to be 3v3, rather than 2v2+gems.

Yeah I get they were trying to MCU it up, but too many of Capcom's characters wouldn't work at all in photo realism, and a lot of the more anime designs look pretty wonky. Doesn't help that they reused the stylized models and made some weird decisions on top of that so you get Dante with eye bags (I mean I guess he's up all night in the games...) and super veiny Haggar (which I suppose is also kinda realistic but, it wasn't done in a flattering way). And then all the Marvel redesigns were bungled in some way. Captain America's ears are huge, Rocket's design is less generic, but he doesn't benefit from the extra fidelity on his fur, and Hawkeye's redesign is fundamentally flawed since they kept his comic book personality and it clashes so hard.

Honestly if it weren't for the great X-Men massacre, the gameplay wouldn't have been such a sticking point, as most takes I've seen of it are that it's pretty solid. Most people just didn't get that far because the game looks bad, and functions vs. functions.

 

[NintenRob]

Real talk, I think I'm gonna step away from honest Smash speculation until the next game is announced. Right now, speculation has done nothing but keep going in circles over and over again and it's not fun for me anymore.

I feel this, there's a reason I don't post here very often. It feels like it devolves to pointless bickering over the dumbest things.

 

[Perkilator]

I feel this, there's a reason I don't post here very often. It feels like it devolves to pointless bickering over the dumbest things.

Honestly, I feel like that's the best way to put it.

 

[Noipoi]

It feels like it devolves to pointless bickering over the dumbest things.

That's this entire website.

That's the entire internet.

 

[Shinuto]

That's this entire website.

That's the entire internet.

That's simple human nature.

 

[RileyXY1]

Honestly I think a new Smash game is preferable. We need to move on from Ultimate. I've come to accept that the roster will be massively trimmed down. That's just reality.