Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Everyone I know in real life who plays Smash a lot wants Ultimate 2, if not straight up an Ultimate port with more content.

Those who are not all that much into Smash would prefer more single player content. But they're not avid Smash players at all, so they'd just play through the single player stuff and then stop to engage with the game anyways...

Well casuals WOULD be more cautious with their money rather than wanting to pay $60 or even $90 for the exact same game with maybe a couple extra characters.

 

[superprincess]

but objectively it makes little sense when most people are asking the later and will probably bring more money, a Smash 6 is more risky right now than people think.

You live in an echo chamber.

 

[Louie G.]

Look i'd prefer a Smash 6 over Ult Deluxe as i'm ready to move on from Ultimate after playing and following it for 6 years, but objectively it makes little sense when most people are asking the later.

I'm really disinterested in this conversation, but I'm just a little frustrated seeing this sentiment repeated a couple times. On paper everybody should "want" a game that maintains all the content from its predecessor at no expense for a new wealth of fighters, stages and new modes on top. The ideal for a fighting game series is that everyone can keep their favorite characters forever. It just doesn't happen that way.

It doesn't make "little sense" to move on from an ideal that is wholly unsustainable, just because people will tentatively be unhappy. If we got another version of Ultimate, one of two things happens. We either just lock the series into this state forever and people buy the same game every console cycle, or we simply are kicking the can down the road to see an even greater loss following the release of the "Deluxe" version. There's no middle ground here. The more that continues to be stacked on top of the existing base, the less opportunity there is for new and exciting content. The more drastically unbalanced the game will get. Old characters will further show their age. That's just the logical sacrifice at play and eventually that's going to get boring.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure if you asked the average joe on the street they would pick "more characters" in their crossover fighter over "better single player modes". But what's worse, moving on now or giving people even more reason to be upset when the roster does need to inevitably shed itself? Is every third party license immediately accessible for a base release? For these reasons and more I really just don't believe it's sensible to anticipate this, it only "makes sense" on the grounds that this is what people online want who refuse to acknowledge the developmental hurdles and expenses that make it unsustainable. On just about every other front it makes more sense to let the series continue as it typically would. Smash will live.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You live in an echo chamber.

An echo chamber that consists of him and him alone since he keeps refusing to listen to counterarguments from this very thread.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The thing to me is that Nintendo has displayed a willingness to move away from conventional wisdom with sequels and seem averse to becoming too stagnant with series at points. Conventional wisdom suggested that various Gamecube games would be to the N64 what SNES follow-ups were to the NES, and yet much of that former library went in directions no one could have anticipated.

Nintendo often wants to try and innovate with new entries (sometimes with the point of excess with series like Star Fox) and Smash, even as successful as it is could very well fall into that. If Sakurai and/r his successor come upon a new attractive concept that moves it away from the angle of "Ultimate but bigger" it would fit entirely within what we've seen. Especially now when Nintendo's in a much stronger position, the market safe appeal of EiH is not necessarily as critical for the next Smash or even the next Switch console.

 

[BritishGuy54]

An Ultimate Deluxe would heavily prevent new faces, new content, and the Switch era in general from showing itself and building its own legacy. Instead, too many people are scarily eager to fall back on what’s come before.

I get nostalgia, the sheer sense of scale, and more play into why people would like an Ultimate Deluxe, but I’d rather let the Switch era spread its wings with a Smash 6.

It will be a daunting few months of speculation if we do get a Smash 6, and people shifting to a more conservative mindset in regard to newcomers and the like. But I think seeing just what modern Nintendo has given us, and what it can give to fans who have grown up with this era would outweigh any desire I have for an Ultimate Deluxe.

 

[Gengar84]

I would still prefer an OoT/SS Impa, or the Impa from AoC, but your plaidoyer for Oracles' Impa is very good.

I feel like I’m the only one here that wants Hyrule Warriors Impa the most. I’d be fine with Skyward Sword Impa too since they have very similar designs.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel like I’m the only one here that wants Hyrule Warriors Impa the most. I’d be fine with Skyward Sword Impa too since they have very similar designs.

i just want impa and I’ll take what I can get

 

[Sucumbio]

Everyone I know in real life who plays Smash a lot wants Ultimate 2, if not straight up an Ultimate port with more content.

If the next system confirmed to be backwards compatibile I'm assuming everyone will balk if Ultimate Deluxe is priced too high but if there's a reason to upgrade such as modes in addition to new characters and at most they charge like 20 to 30 dollars and a monthly NSO 4.99 and they dripdrop characters ....wait nooooo that sucks I just want a new game. Otherwise I am ..

 

[AreJay25]

Smash will be fine no matter what route it takes in the next entry. As long as it has "Smash" in its title, it'll sell primarily based on that.

At the end of the day it's entirely up to Sakurai and Nintendo on how they want the series to progress, but even the former has more or less said that a continuation of Ultimate isn't exactly realistic. At some point the series will have to move on and not rely on the bones of the previous games, which in itself can still be incredibly exciting.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'm really disinterested in this conversation, but I'm just a little frustrated seeing this sentiment repeated a couple times. On paper everybody should "want" a game that maintains all the content from its predecessor at no expense for a new wealth of fighters, stages and new modes on top. The ideal for a fighting game series is that everyone can keep their favorite characters forever. It just doesn't happen that way.

It doesn't make "little sense" to move on from an ideal that is wholly unsustainable, just because people will tentatively be unhappy. If we got another version of Ultimate, one of two things happens. We either just lock the series into this state forever and people buy the same game every console cycle, or we simply are kicking the can down the road to see an even greater loss following the release of the "Deluxe" version. There's no middle ground here. The more that continues to be stacked on top of the existing base, the less opportunity there is for new and exciting content. The more drastically unbalanced the game will get. Old characters will further show their age. That's just the logical sacrifice at play and eventually that's going to get boring.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure if you asked the average joe on the street they would pick "more characters" in their crossover fighter over "better single player modes". But what's worse, moving on now or giving people even more reason to be upset when the roster does need to inevitably shed itself? Is every third party license immediately accessible for a base release? For these reasons and more I really just don't believe it's sensible to anticipate this, it only "makes sense" on the grounds that this is what people online want who refuse to acknowledge the developmental hurdles and expenses that make it unsustainable. On just about every other front it makes more sense to let the series continue as it typically would. Smash will live.

Even if those were the only two options, why wouldn't the average player want to kick the can down the road? They get more years of fun.

 

[Guynamednelson]

everyone will balk if Ultimate Deluxe is priced too high

There's a reason why I've been deadset on a BCP-esque pass being the way we stick with Ultimate, assuming we do. If Nintendo feels a proper Smash sequel won't do well enough, I'd rather not pay:

• $300-400 for the new Switch
• $60-70 for what's basically the same game I've already played for thousands of hours with little to no new content
• And then $30 for a new pass so I can actually have some newcomers

I'd rather just spend $30 for the latter.

 

[Louie G.]

An Ultimate Deluxe would heavily prevent new faces, new content, and the Switch era in general from showing itself and building its own legacy. Instead, too many people are scarily eager to fall back on what’s come before.

I get nostalgia, the sheer sense of scale, and more play into why people would like an Ultimate Deluxe, but I’d rather let the Switch era spread its wings with a Smash 6.

I actually feel the opposite, that "Ultimate Deluxe" near exclusively opens the floor to Switch-era / Switch-relevant characters who debuted in the interim period, or a few series that saw significant growth (AC, Splatoon) and not much else. A handful of new stages for major Switch releases. Maybe like one third party on base, a big fan favorite pick, 6-8 newcomers. A fresh slate allows us to be more diverse in our spread, while a limited newcomer count only allows us to bite off the obligatory picks.

Realistically it's something like:

• Waluigi, Tom Nook, Octoling and/or additional Splatoon newcomer, Ring Fit Trainee, [New Pokemon], [Insert Third Party]
• Stage from TOTK, Mario Wonder, Splatoon 2 or 3. MAYBE a new Pokemon or Animal Crossing stage.
• Most fighters remain unchanged or slightly altered for balance purposes but not much else
• DLC would consist additionally of megaton third party reveals and new first party characters who missed the boat

This isn't a very exciting cycle to me. Maybe I'm lowballing a bit, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe an enhanced port of such a massive game might not come with a surplus of new toys. It practically assures that Smash comes around every console cycle simply to promote the last few years of Nintendo's activity and for Nintendo to flex big name collaborations. This is a very corporate direction in my eyes - Smash's identity is more than that.

Even if those were the only two options, why wouldn't the average player want to kick the can down the road? They get more years of fun.

That's what I said, the average person would choose more characters over anything else. But in doing so they're just delaying the inevitably worse fallout once this model becomes unsustainable and contracts finally expire. If that's what people want it's their prerogative, I'm just looking forward.

Also I've got a million years of fun because I bought Smash Ultimate. I own it forever. A new game coming out with slightly less content than that is not going to prevent me from having years of fun, it just gives me another game to have fun with. Thankfully Switch 2 will be cross compatible

 

[Noipoi]

After playing the same Mario Kart for a decade I’ve become generally uninterested in the concept of porting the same game for years on end.

I’d much prefer the next Smash to have its own identity.

 

[AreJay25]

Ultimate is almost 6 years old. At some point people will grow tired of the status quo and want something fresh to look forward to.

A new game isn't going to erase Ultimate from existence, especially considering the next system is practically confirmed to be backwards compatible. If Melee has managed to endure for over 20 years in spite of 3 games releasing afterwards, nothing says Ultimate can't do the same without receiving significant updates.

 

[Sucumbio]

After playing the same Mario Kart for a decade I’ve become generally uninterested in the concept of porting the same game for years on end.

I’d much prefer the next Smash to have its own identity.

Yeah each Smash "feels" like it belongs on the console it came on... When I first had the game my TV wasn't available so I played Ultimate on the kickstand and used the joycons and it was great lol anyway we'll see I just hope Switch 2 isn't wiiU the sequel

 

[Noipoi]

A new game isn't going to erase Ultimate from existence, especially considering the next system is practically confirmed to be backwards compatible. If Melee has managed to endure for over 20 years in spite of 3 games releasing afterwards, nothing says Ultimate can't do the same without receiving significant updates.

Exactly!

Ultimate will always be around, it’ll always be the one with the gigantonormous roster, and whenever you want that you can always pop it into your Switch 2.

And when you want something new and different, that’s what Smash 6 is for!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I suppose the most comperable example would be MvC. UMvC3's roster is much smaller than MvC2's, and people still enjoy that game (IIRC the problems people had with it were due to on disc DLC and the fact that they didn't even wait 6 months before putting out the enhanced version, so I don't think they'd apply to SSB6).

Granted, MvCI's roster was even smaller and people hated that, but unless they cut the entire Metroid, F-Zero, EarthBound, and Star Fox cast for no reason (EDIT: and the game's visual style is fundamentally flawed) I think we'll be fine there.

 

[Pupp135]

Re: Mario Party

I think a dessert themed board could be cool to see like Peach’s Birthday Cake or Sweet Dream.




Also, I loved Fish Upon a Star in Mario Party 5, and there could be an interesting gimmick where Cheep Cheeps destroy some of the main platform.

 

[Perkilator]

and the fact that they didn't even wait 6 months before putting out the enhanced version

To be fair to UMvC3, the extra characters it added were supposed to be DLC, but the 2011 earthquake and tsunami pretty much forced Capcom to make the enhanced version.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I suppose the most comperable example would be MvC. UMvC3's roster is much smaller than MvC2's, and people still enjoy that game (IIRC the problems people had with it were due to on disc DLC and the fact that they didn't even wait 6 months before putting out the enhanced version, so I don't think they'd apply to SSB6).

Granted, MvCI's roster was even smaller and people hated that, but unless they cut the entire Metroid, F-Zero, EarthBound, and Star Fox cast for no reason (EDIT: and the game's visual style is fundamentally flawed) I think we'll be fine there.

Don't forget the main complaint about 3's, which is the function crap. That's really the worst part, though it's a great game otherwise. Mainly that removing MegaMan due to "being a shotoclone", which would've made sense, if they didn't quickly throw Akuma in(albeit, he doesn't miss a game, but a hypocritical point). They did thankfully give us Zero and a return of Tron Bonne, but it's still worth mentioning. It's part of why people accepted the game. They at least gave something cool in return.

That said, 2's was the last time the roster wasn't given any major complaints, but it didn't have really boneheaded decisions. At worst, too many clones. But even then, it was full of diverse and fun characters anyway. MVC One of course had the "where's Iron Man" bit, but it wasn't as bad as others. Mostly cause War Machine was still fun to use and we got a neat variant of him. That, and in some cases, War Machine is still one of Iron Man's Suits. So it's not like it can't be Stark in it.

Anyway, Infinite also had good gameplay, but that only barely saved it. That won't work with Smash, which has an even bigger focus on characters than MvC in general does(which is also part of its appeal, but it has tons of franchises moreso, and a rotating roster anyway, something Smash doesn't have. It's why the rosters are accepted easier. The main issue with Infinite was boneheaded cuts. You can't actually justify Wolverine being gone. It's fine if most of the X-Men aren't there, but he wasn't even DLC. People were quite justified in being pissed off).

 

[AreJay25]

Don't forget the main complaint about 3's, which is the function crap. That's really the worst part, though it's a great game otherwise. Mainly that removing MegaMan due to "being a shotoclone", which would've made sense, if they didn't quickly throw Akuma in(albeit, he doesn't miss a game, but a hypocritical point). They did thankfully give us Zero and a return of Tron Bonne, but it's still worth mentioning. It's part of why people accepted the game. They at least gave something cool in return.

Just a minor correction, the "functions" debacle came from Infinite, in relation to the culling of the X-Men from the roster. IIRC Mega Man's exclusion from MvC3 was never actually explained.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Twitter is any indication (it's at least broader than here lol) there is a sense that because Mario Kart did it Smash will to, that is, have a Deluxe edition and then add new DLC.

I still think this is folly. Sakurai and Bamco and Co. should not be expected to follow the same strategy as AC or Kart, not to mention the actual differences between Smash and Kart/AC as games. Add to this backwards compatibility and it really just doesn't make sense for Smash to be re-releasing Ultimate as a deluxe edition.

It's quite an effective strategy when it comes to sales in gaming I feel. First create a game that's a massive success financially and with it's fanbase, add unto that with a HD rerelease with new content, then promise an active DLC cycle throughout the consoles lifespan and it will generate sales on it's own. Making the budget possibly bigger for a bigger next installment, that might eventually alienate the fans of the previous thing. It's a safe bet for guaranteed sales and satisfaction it feels like. With Smash Ultimate being often called "the Ultimate Smash experience", how is it not a possibility? Smash with backup DLC, balance patches, Nintendo organized tournaments, new characters and stages and items every other 6 months or so... I think this might financially be the safest bet for Nintendo. Milking things out seem to work in the industry's favor.

 

[Shinuto]

I feel like I’m the only one here that wants Hyrule Warriors Impa the most. I’d be fine with Skyward Sword Impa too since they have very similar designs.

I want Young Impa from age of calamity shshe is the cutest one.

 

[TheQuester]

Generally speaking, most don't, hence the " " in my previous post. Granted there are those who do, but they're in the minority.

I was more alluding to that sentiment within the speculation scene itself. Also a minority, but more vocal. You'll see cases where in speculation the casual audience will be used as a point against more niche series and your "literal who"s.

Most casual players don't care but the "general audience" is an easy/somewhat common point to try to use against smaller franchises.

I don't even get why someone begin a "who" for them is suposed to be a bad thing for those people?
Ness, for example, was a "literal who" to me when i first opened Brawl, but that made me want to learn more about him and his home series and i also ended up maning him bc i liked his moveset and character design.
I never really got the "literally who" mocking thing, like how is you, personally, not knowing a character makes it a bad choice for Smash? It just makes me cringe when people throw that around.
Most of those people also think you can only play as characters of games you've played....which is kinda baffling to me, do those people just stare at the character select screen when they try a new non-crossover fighting game bc the characters are original to that fighting game? Lmao.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's quite an effective strategy when it comes to sales in gaming I feel. First create a game that's a massive success financially and with it's fanbase, add unto that with a HD rerelease with new content, then promise an active DLC cycle throughout the consoles lifespan and it will generate sales on it's own. Making the budget possibly bigger for a bigger next installment, that might eventually alienate the fans of the previous thing. It's a safe bet for guaranteed sales and satisfaction it feels like. With Smash Ultimate being often called "the Ultimate Smash experience", how is it not a possibility? Smash with backup DLC, balance patches, Nintendo organized tournaments, new characters and stages and items every other 6 months or so... I think this might financially be the safest bet for Nintendo. Milking things out seem to work in the industry's favor.

Problem is, MK8D is as big as it is because the original MK8 was never going to break 10 million sales thanks to being a Wii U game. The Switch doesn't have that problem, therefore the people who would buy Ultimate Deluxe had the Switch flopped already bought the original Ultimate and played it to death.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just a minor correction, the "functions" debacle came from Infinite, in relation to the culling of the X-Men from the roster. IIRC Mega Man's exclusion from MvC3 was never actually explained.

I think it was some rumor that got debunked that I read ages ago. Cause I remember it quite clearly it was due to "being redundant".

Infinite had it far more either way.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think it was some rumor that got debunked that I read ages ago. Cause I remember it quite clearly it was due to "being redundant".

Infinite had it far more either way.

For Infinite, Magneto was argued that he was redundant because Nova also had an 8-way airdash. That's from the same source where "characters are just functions" came from.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For Infinite, Magneto was argued that he was redundant because Nova also had an 8-way airdash. That's from the same source where "characters are just functions" came from.

I miswrote that. I was talking about the rumor specifically referring to MvC3's MegaMan reasoning.

I wasn't disputing the Infinite part. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[fogbadge]

Re: Mario Party

I think a dessert themed board could be cool to see like Peach’s Birthday Cake or Sweet Dream.




Also, I loved Fish Upon a Star in Mario Party 5, and there could be an interesting gimmick where Cheep Cheeps destroy some of the main platform.

i see we had similar ideas. as in we both suggested sweet dream

 

[Wonder Smash]

I directed my trailer for Billy and Jimmy:

Direct a Trailer!

smashboards.com

Not sure I mentioned this already but in the previous page, I also did my own trailer for Ryu Hayabusa too:

Direct a Trailer!

A trailer for irrelevant Mobile Game Rep that have low chances, but he can join smash someday. Geometry Smash: [Cross Flair Intro] The Trailer opening is similar to Pacman's Trailer in Super Smash Bros. 4; Mario represents red bar, Sonic and MegaMan blue one and Pacman the yellow one. They...

smashboards.com

 

[RodNutTakin]

Genuinely surprised that no one seems to have any issues/criticisms with my predictions, unless that's a byproduct of me not talking in here often.

 

[Shinuto]

Genuinely surprised that no one seems to have any issues/criticisms with my predictions, unless that's a byproduct of me not talking in here often.

What was it again?

 

[Louie G.]

Genuinely surprised that no one seems to have any issues/criticisms with my predictions, unless that's a byproduct of me not talking in here often.

It's a fairly agreeable list, some characters I would miss are counteracted by the promise of adding them later as DLC. You mapped out a lot of DLC, I'm not sure we would see that much but I would at least hope certain veterans that miss the cut have that cushion so long as it doesn't interfere too heavily with the main course. Also regarding Miis, they will 100% be in the next game. I'm certain the system will accommodate them on behalf of backwards compatibility and Mii Costumes have been an efficient way for Nintendo to expand Smash's crossover potential further than would have been feasible otherwise. The Miis have become an economy all their own within Smash, cutting them is sacrificing dozens of new connections and millions of potential dollars.

This might be an unexpected criticism, but the least defensible cut is Wii Fit Trainer. I understand Ring Fit Trainee is being added, but otherwise you made a point to bring back every single Nintendo series aside from Wii Fit. That just strikes me as a bit odd. If your Ice Climbers, ROB, Duck Hunt etc can still squeeze in there I don't see why Wii Fit Trainer should be the one single loose end. She and RFT wouldn't fight a whole lot like one another anyway. Robin getting snubbed is a bit arguable as well but I get why you did it, it's not impossible that they get cut but I usually value their distinct gameplay function among the pack.

Newcomer lineup is okay. I won't spend too much time saying I think x and y are totally gonna happen or totally not gonna happen, but my kneejerk suggestions would be that I'd have vouched Chun-Li over Zero, and that a new Animal Crossing character is worth adding and strongly likely. I appreciate the addition of Rhyhtm Heaven, but as a diehard fan and supporter I'm truly not holding my breath.

 

[BritishGuy54]

An Ultimate Deluxe would heavily prevent new faces, new content, and the Switch era in general from showing itself and building its own legacy. Instead, too many people are scarily eager to fall back on what’s come before.

I get nostalgia, the sheer sense of scale, and more play into why people would like an Ultimate Deluxe, but I’d rather let the Switch era spread its wings with a Smash 6.

It will be a daunting few months of speculation if we do get a Smash 6, and people shifting to a more conservative mindset in regard to newcomers and the like. But I think seeing just what modern Nintendo has given us, and what it can give to fans who have grown up with this era would outweigh any desire I have for an Ultimate Deluxe.

And to add, an Ultimate Deluxe would likely only give us the bare essentials. Those rotating casts of Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade? Maybe an Animal Crossing character?

Genuinely surprised that no one seems to have any issues/criticisms with my predictions, unless that's a byproduct of me not talking in here often.

Having a look, I think it’s definitely too dependent on third parties. 14 out of 68 in the base game is… a choice.

And I think Pokémon is slightly undersold here. It could do with an extra veteran, likely Charizard.

And I don’t see Mio functioning well as a Noah echo. Like, N is right there.

 

[Oracle Link]

Btw whats your opinion On Zelda being smol in the next game?
So either its these:

Or these:

With Champion Link, Ganondorf, Impa and others you want?

I dont Know i would love to see the small links being less treated as outliers and i mean zelda is only playable as toon or downfall version!
I just think its weird having link, ganon, zelda and impa from totk Personally!

 

[Sucumbio]

Btw whats your opinion On Zelda being smol in the next game?
So either its these:
View attachment 391414View attachment 391415

Or these:

View attachment 391416

With Champion Link, Ganondorf, Impa and others you want?

I dont Know i would love to see the small links being less treated as outliers and i mean zelda is only playable as toon or downfall version!
I just think its weird having link, ganon, zelda and impa from totk Personally!

I would have loved Tetra so any toon Zelda or this new design would be awesome but I don't expect it. Link seems to be he sold beneficiary of alternative selves being playable and I think Ultimate is last game that has 3 links.

 

[Oracle Link]

I would have loved Tetra so any toon Zelda or this new design would be awesome but I don't expect it. Link seems to be he sold beneficiary of alternative selves being playable and I think Ultimate is last game that has 3 links.

Whats with sheik?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I dont think they'll change anything about Zelda.

Her down B could already be recontextualized as the gimmick from the new game.

 

[Curious Villager]

Btw whats your opinion On Zelda being smol in the next game?
So either its these:
View attachment 391414View attachment 391415

Or these:

View attachment 391416

With Champion Link, Ganondorf, Impa and others you want?

I dont Know i would love to see the small links being less treated as outliers and i mean zelda is only playable as toon or downfall version!
I just think its weird having link, ganon, zelda and impa from totk Personally!

I guess Toon Zelda could work if they want to keep the Phantom slash while giving Zelda the new Echo wand.

But if we have to have to get another Triforce guy, just bring in Ganon already, he's pretty much proven his mainstay at this point in the modern age of the Zelda series. Hopefully this new game does him better justice than whatever A Link Between worlds did with him. Actually, I'm probably the only one who is more interested in what they will be doing with Ganon this time around than with Link or Zelda, the former will likely just get brainwashed and the latter from the looks of it, will probably sneak out from her overprotective father and guards (assuming they didn't get brainwashed as well) and go on her own adventure judging from what we've seen of this trailer. (Much like Spirit Tracks)

Meanwhile Ganon is more up in the air on what they will be doing with him, is he going to get side-lined by some other villain again? Will they keep him as a mindless beast again? Or is he finally going to be an actual character in his own right again with his own thoughts and dialogue since... A Link to the Past 25+ years ago... (unless he got to speak in FSA as well, I dunno...)