Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

There's a tricky cost/benefit to Microsoft or Sony buying any Japanese developer. Beyond the governmental/business issues of puling it off, both would have also to count on strong sales from the West early on to counteract the fact that neither company has much share of the market in Japan where a lot of the revenue for such third parties comes from. Even Square Enix, a company that (barring maybe Capcom) is arguably far more invested in AAA gaming development and often catering to the West, would have a hell of a time explaining to its Japanese fans that Dragon Quest, a series where every mainline entry can be played on a portable system, is now exclusive title that whose only mobile version would be on phones.

 

[toonito]

Switch in its mid-lifecycle? does this mean Smash (a console seller) 6 is coming out 2028(?!) at the earliest? Could there be 2 Smash games on the same console (a series first)?

hmmm...

 

[Sucumbio]

Heh I think they're saying that to downplay the expectation of a new console like Switch Pro coming sooner than later. I'd estimate we'll get new hardware by 2024 at the latest possibly even next year or by surprise this year.

Nes 83
Snes 90 (7 years - the longest)
N64 96 (6 years)
GCN 01 (5 years)
Wii 06 (5 years)
WiiU 12 (6 years)
Switch 17 (5 years)
Next Console 2022-24 (5 to 6 years 7 at the most).

If they somehow break with traditional release times either due to chip shortages or some other unforseen reason and it goes 8+ years (2025 and beyond) I'd be VERY surprised.

 

[Guynamednelson]

does this mean Smash (a console seller) 6 is coming out 2028(?!) at the earliest?

Sakurai's already said that for a while.

 

[SPEN18]

I agree that the "middle of its lifecycle" comment was simply an exaggeration meant to downplay expectations for new hardware and emphasize the strength of current performance. However, I also do not think that new hardware is imminent, and at the very least I wouldn't be surprised if the current iteration of the Switch lasts a few more years as the main hardware, despite any lack of precedent.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So if we are getting a Switch Pro, you think we'll get an enhanced port of ultimate with new fighters (new and/or echo), stages, and content with a free upgrade if you already have the original save file?

 

[Wonder Smash]

So if we are getting a Switch Pro, you think we'll get an enhanced port of ultimate with new fighters (new and/or echo), stages, and content with a free upgrade if you already have the original save file?

I would hope so.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Hello everyone, I felt like sharing one of my latest moveset ideas, this time for you-know-who.

In Dixie's case I've been breaking down the types of attacks she could theoretically do into categories. This is a brand new category that I'm gonna call Tandem; these are instances in which Dixie attacks with both her hair and at least one limb. So, without further ado here it is:

Dixie balances on one hand and then simultaneously kicks out a leg while swinging her ponytail in a brisk yet broad stroke. It’s a bit misleading while you charge the move, as the foot she’s gonna kick with starts opposite from where she swings her leg and the same applies to her ponytail, which the trajectory shows. She hits with her leg and hair in tandem, effectively performing a lopsided split that has different properties due to what she’s attacking with. Foes hit by her leg will receive more hitstun while those hit by her hair will suffer more knockback. As you can see, Dixie’s ponytail has more reach, so it’s usually better to catch enemies with her hair instead of her foot, but said foot can still cause problems for fighters who rolled around her to avoid the hair as they’ll still catch a kick.

The nature of this move makes it best suited as a potential Down Smash, since she's performing a lopsided yet hard-hitting split regardless of the side that connects. It's well within the range of potential moves Dixie can utilize to make for an interesting moveset. Her hair is the key to making her stand out as it's highly versatile, and for more ideas I have a whole database of potential moves in one document. Have a look:

Dixie Kong Moveset by Andrew C

Overview Dixie joins the roster not as a Diddy Echo or Semi-Clone, but as a potential grapple-based character from the DK series. Using her ponytail as an extra limb, strong arm and unorthodox propeller, Dixie’s able to hold her own against her foes with surprisingly strong attacks and aerial mo...

docs.google.com

It's updated....occasionally but it can go a long way to inspire others.

Woah, this looks like official concept art! And the idea looks and reads like something pulled straight out of the game itself! It's one of those attacks that once you see it, it looks like the character should have always been able to do that. Very natural!

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I agree that the "middle of its lifecycle" comment was simply an exaggeration meant to downplay expectations for new hardware and emphasize the strength of current performance. However, I also do not think that new hardware is imminent, and at the very least I wouldn't be surprised if the current iteration of the Switch lasts a few more years as the main hardware, despite any lack of precedent.

If you look at it through the lens of handheld systems instead of home consoles, there is a sort of precedent, actually.

Gameboy - 1989 (9 years, with a couple redesigns)
GBC - 1998 (3 years)
GBA - 2001 (3 years, but Nintendo kept supporting it into 2006 or so, so technically 5)
DS - 2004 (7 years)
3DS - 2011 (6 years, but overlapped with the Switch in 2017, so 7 years of support)
Switch - 2017 (5 years so far)

Going by handheld standards, there's a high likelihood of the Switch lasting until 2024 (7 years) and getting replaced around then, especially if the Switch has inherited Nintendo's habit of running handheld systems into the ground.

 

[Simnm]

So if we are getting a Switch Pro, you think we'll get an enhanced port of ultimate with new fighters (new and/or echo), stages, and content with a free upgrade if you already have the original save file?

I dont see the point if they were to add new content they would just call it a new game

 

[Gengar84]

I dont see the point if they were to add new content they would just call it a new game

I could potentially see them rereleasing the game as a complete package with all the existing DLC but no new content at launch. They could then just start making more Fighter’s Passes for that version. That idea is probably more likely for a Switch successor than a Switch Pro. I honestly never expected we’d get a Switch Pro at all, but that’s besides the point. I don’t really expect a Deluxe edition happen either but I think it’s a possibility and I’d probably buy it again if they did announce more FPs.

 

[Perkilator]

I’d really rather a DX version have all the DLC and now content at launch and just keep it that way.

 

[Gengar84]

I’d really rather a DX version have all the DLC and now content at launch and just keep it that way.

I personally like the DLC to be spaced out like the Fighter’s Passes compared to just getting it all at once. It’s nice to have some excitement to look forward to and speculate on. Although I can also see the appeal in getting to play with new characters sooner.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

A company isn’t going to announce “yeah there’ll be a new switch in a few years” that’s a sure fire way to make potential buyers go “oh ok, well I’ll just buy that one when it comes out instead of Switch” losing sales.

 

[Gengar84]

A company isn’t going to announce “yeah there’ll be a new switch in a few years” that’s a sure fire way to make potential buyers go “oh ok, well I’ll just buy that one when it comes out instead of Switch” losing sales.

That’s true. Still, I’m personally next expecting a new Nintendo console anytime soon. The earliest I can see it is sometime in late 2024. Nintendo has been very hit or miss with the success of their consoles so I don’t imagine they are in too much of a rush for a new one until the sales of the Switch start to dwindle down. That’s just my personal feeling though and I could be completely wrong and we get it this year lol.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Now I don’t think we’re getting it within this year obviously but Nintendo has an R&D department and they don’t just go on vacation because a console is doing well. The Switch is now 5 years old and it’s honestly starting to show a little. It might still be a couple of years but the Switch can’t last another 5 years on Market like Nintendo would like you to believe. It’s just not feasible to remain stagnant in an industry where technology is rapidly progressing. You’re liable to get left behind, or in Nintendo’s case left behind again.

 

[Gengar84]

Now I don’t think we’re getting it within this year obviously but Nintendo has an R&D department and they don’t just go on vacation because a console is doing well. The Switch is now 5 years old and it’s honestly starting to show a little. It might still be a couple of years but the Switch can’t last another 5 years on Market like Nintendo would like you to believe. It’s just not feasible to remain stagnant in an industry where technology is rapidly progressing. You’re liable to get left behind, or in Nintendo’s case left behind again.

You have a good point there. At the same time, I’m not really sure how much keeping up with modern graphics matter to most Nintendo fans. Just look at Pokémon BDSP and Legends Arceus. Those games look like they could have been made on the PS2 but are still selling like crazy. As long as they keep the hybrid model, think Nintendo is never going to be on par graphically with Sony and Microsoft. Ideally, I’d love a more powerful console but I still have fun playing NES and SNES games so it’s not that big of a deal to me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

You have a good point there. At the same time, I’m not really sure how much keeping up with modern graphics matter to most Nintendo fans. Just look at Pokémon BDSP and Legends Arceus. Those games look like they could have been made on the PS2 but are still selling like crazy. As long as they keep the hybrid model, think Nintendo is never going to be on par graphically with Sony and Microsoft. Ideally, I’d love a more powerful console but I still have fun playing NES and SNES games so it’s not that big of a deal to me.

Technology doesn’t necessarily mean graphics and that’s not what I was referencing personally despite the fact that it is still important, you do have a point. I’m more talking about the fact that Joycon aren’t living up to standard and even the system itself is having trouble running it’s own games at this point. Arceus stutters, Age of Calamity really drops, even Metroid Dread was hit with a 900p max while docked. Nintendo’s software is slowly starting to work its way ahead of its hardware.

 

[Guynamednelson]

At the same time, I’m not really sure how much keeping up with modern graphics matter to most Nintendo fans.

Nintendo fans might not care, but Nintendo wants to seem cool to third party companies. Including ones that want to move away from seventh-gen-tier hardware like the Switch's.

 

[Gengar84]

Technology doesn’t necessarily mean graphics and that’s not what I was referencing personally despite the fact that it is still important, you do have a point. I’m more talking about the fact that Joycon aren’t living up to standard and even the system itself is having trouble running it’s own games at this point. Arceus stutters, Age of Calamity really drops, even Metroid Dread was hit with a 900p max while docked. Nintendo’s software is slowly starting to work its way ahead of its hardware.

Yeah, I can’t really defend their joycons or pro controllers. I personally went through four pro controllers drifting on me to the point where I just gave up and now use my PS4 controllers to play Switch games. It’s a shame because Nintendo used to have such reliable hardware.

I think I’m just weird. I’m still perfectly happy with the PS2 and GameCube era and would have been perfectly happy if power never really progressed past that point. Metroid Prime, Kingdom Hearts 2, and Resident Evil 4 still look really impressive to me lol. I’ve gotten used to poor frame rate from playing so much co-op Dynasty Warriors and multiplayer Perfect Dark that I don’t often notice it (although distant Pokémon in Legends Arceus is pretty obvious to me).

 

[Chuderz]

It'd be cool to speculate on what a successor to the Switch would even be like beyond the idea of a more powerful hybrid console. Sure that's most likely a given but there are ways to improve upon the Switch besides power. Here's my idealized prediction I guess.

If I was to go for specs I'd really like the handheld mode screen to at least get bumped up to 1080p or 1440p (I think despite Nintendo stinginess we'd be overdue for a double-resolution bump by then) if we're extremely lucky and for the dock to be upscaled 4K more than likely. They'll most definitely stick with the cartridges to keep the system cool and all the extra little perks of the OLED model are a given including the OLED screen and the built-in Ethernet port. The screen size will be bumped up to 8 inches. I don't imagine the storage will be impressive either to cut costs and pass the onus onto the consumer. It'd be nice if were something decent though to allow for games to be default bigger. Something like 256 GB but 128 GB would be more than serviceable to allow for bigger game sizes.

New Joycons fundamentally fix drift and are chunky. It's like the Joycons and Wiimote fused. Improve the comfort of the grip in handheld mode by any means necessary because that **** is ****ing unbearable without 3rd party grips. For the Pro-Controller gimme that haptic feedback with some analog-triggers too. Perfect segway into making GameCube joycons and controllers universal across all games and release a dedicated GameCube controller that stands alongside with the standard Pro-Controller as one of the main 3 options of play. These GameCube controllers will have R3/L3 functionality and an extra Z-Button on the left-side to bring them up to date with the modern era. Previous retro controllers (NES, SNES and GENESIS) for the previous (current) Switch will be functional with the successor Switch.

Online infrastructure is massively improved. Dedicated servers, cloud saves standard for all games, voice-chat, folders, browser, a messaging system, streamlined friend-requests and party creation, achievements and copious amounts of themes that you can buy. No monthly free-games or special discounts because it's Nintendo.

I think a really cool concept for the device would be to combine all Nintendo's controller innovations into one device. We almost kind of have it already. Improve gyro aiming where you can if you can and I have no idea how but gyro is seemingly the future of motion controls.

Now here's my crazy gimmick that I think would be cool. I have no idea if it'd work btw but if you could play your system in handheld and dock mode simultaneously! You undock your system in handheld mode and then cast your game into the TV your system is hooked up to. Doing this will allow you to utilize touch-screen options using your handheld Switch as the controller for your now docked gameplay. Most games will just default to your pause utility screens like inventory/skills/maps but sometimes a game will do something a little different with it like Fatal Frame or Nintendoland or even something a little less dedicated like a one-off scenario in a game. Anything is something in regards to touch-screen functionality. It's obviously harkening back to the Wii U but this time feature while advertised will be completely optional like it always should have been just like motion controls are now (and guess what people don't really complain about motion controls as much as they used to) because the thing is there's lots of potential with the concept (again just like motion controls) it's just not universally applicable across all games and making it mandatory is what killed it's reputation more than anything wrong with the concept itself. The system will come with one protective film for your handheld mode screen should you want to lay it over. Any extra you'll have to buy extra. Throw in a simple little stylus-pen/stylus-holder on back of the kickstand for that added functionality and you're set.

Maybe another tag-on gimmick could be an emphasis on Picture-in-Picture mode since it's been abandoned by Microsoft in favor of more power so it might be something Nintendo could capitalize on.

The system will launch with backward compatibility with your previous Switch's library and continue the streaming service model in favor of the abandoned virtual console model to the sadness of Nintendofans everywhere but at least they'll keep adding online functionality to all applicable retro titles. Media streaming apps are day-1 such as Netflix and the like. Spotify too.

It will be called the Super Switch and cost $500 at launch in summer 2025. A Super Switch-Lite will launch simultaneously for $400 dollars with the appropriate cuts to enable its miniaturized functionality. The Super Switch-Lite will function as a dedicated controller for your standard Super Switch in the exact same way you'd use a handheld mode Super Switch should you cast onto the TV.

Post-Launch there'll be hyped-up rumors about a VR headset in the works but it'll turn out to be a set of AR glasses to go mostly with their crappy phone games or maybe something more substantial but Nintendo lays their flag in AR to keep it functional with the mobility factor and to carve a market away from their competitors. People will complain fairly loudly buuuuuut if the AR glasses are actually well-implemented these naysayers will soon relent and appreciate Nintendo's take on the technology.

Launch games will be Arms 2, Mario Kart 9 (I'm personally not buying into the recent rumors), and a new Animal Crossing with the next 3D Mario game are promised for late-year 2025. The following year we'd get the announcement of Ultimate DX, Splatoon 4 and a new F-Zero game for 2026 and a teaser of the final installment in the BOTW trilogy. Oh and some half-assed Pokemon games. Maybe Pokken 2 if we're lucky.

Those are my idealized predictions. I know I shouldn't expect so much from Nintendo but whatever, I can dream.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m pretty clueless as to where current technology is power-wise. How far away are we from a hybrid console like a Switch successor from having graphics and power on par with PS4 and X-Box One? It would be kind of a shame to get another new Nintendo console that can’t even keep up with the previous generation. I personally only play my Switch in docked mode so I don’t really care much about the portability aspect but I understand that it’s important for a lot of people and a big part of the Switch’s success.

 

[Idon]

I’m pretty clueless as to where current technology is power-wise. How far away are we from a hybrid console like a Switch successor from having graphics and power on par with PS4 and X-Box One? It would be kind of a shame to get another new Nintendo console that can’t even keep up with the previous generation. I personally only play my Switch in docked mode so I don’t really care much about the portability aspect but I understand that it’s important for a lot of people and a big part of the Switch’s success.

Light years.
It's not happening anytime soon.
20 fps Nintendo games are the future sadly.

 

[Chuderz]

I’m pretty clueless as to where current technology is power-wise. How far away are we from a hybrid console like a Switch successor from having graphics and power on par with PS4 and X-Box One? It would be kind of a shame to get another new Nintendo console that can’t even keep up with the previous generation. I personally only play my Switch in docked mode so I don’t really care much about the portability aspect but I understand that it’s important for a lot of people and a big part of the Switch’s success.

This article kind of lays out some of that speculation. From what I can gather there might be a really powerful chip in development that's kind of overkill for most phones but perfect for a premium handheld gaming device like a Switch successor. Their mobile chip, while unofficial rumors I guess, seems to have performed up to 58 FPS in some sort of test. I'm not totally sure but this is what I was able to dredge up.

Nintendo Switch 2 could be a true powerhouse with this breakthrough

Nintendo Switch 2 could tap into the joint power of AMD and Samsung

www.tomsguide.com

 

[Gengar84]

This article kind of lays out some of that speculation. From what I can gather there might be a really powerful chip in development that's kind of overkill for most phones but perfect for a premium handheld gaming device like a Switch successor. Their mobile chip, while unofficial rumors I guess, seems to have performed up to 58 FPS in some sort of test. I'm not totally sure but this is what I was able to dredge up.

Nintendo Switch 2 could be a true powerhouse with this breakthrough

Nintendo Switch 2 could tap into the joint power of AMD and Samsung

www.tomsguide.com

Oh, that sounds promising. If Nintendo is going to release a new console, I hope it is at least a very noticeable from upgrade Switch. If they were just going to give us marginal improvements, I’d rather just keep playing the Switch. I still haven’t picked up a PS5 or X-Box Series X yet since I’m still enjoying my PS4.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I think it's a travesty that Donkey Kong still doesn't have his Coconut Gun somewhere in his moveset. I'm aware Diddy has a peanut gun, but it's just not the same. After all, it has to be charged - and peanuts don't fire in spurts. I think that the Coconut Gun would provide a solid projectile option to DK, which would bring him at least slightly up the tier list and give him more defensive and neutral options aside from pure melee. However, I think it should be slow but very powerful - if he shoots you, it's gonna hurt. It'd be a fine way to really kick some tail in future Smash titles.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I think it's a travesty that Donkey Kong still doesn't have his Coconut Gun somewhere in his moveset. I'm aware Diddy has a peanut gun, but it's just not the same. After all, it has to be charged - and peanuts don't fire in spurts. I think that the Coconut Gun would provide a solid projectile option to DK, which would bring him at least slightly up the tier list and give him more defensive and neutral options aside from pure melee. However, I think it should be slow but very powerful - if he shoots you, it's gonna hurt. It'd be a fine way to really kick some tail in future Smash titles.

I have an Idea.
Coconut gun would be his Side Special and Headbutt becomes his Forward Tilt.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it's a travesty that Donkey Kong still doesn't have his Coconut Gun somewhere in his moveset. I'm aware Diddy has a peanut gun, but it's just not the same. After all, it has to be charged - and peanuts don't fire in spurts. I think that the Coconut Gun would provide a solid projectile option to DK, which would bring him at least slightly up the tier list and give him more defensive and neutral options aside from pure melee. However, I think it should be slow but very powerful - if he shoots you, it's gonna hurt. It'd be a fine way to really kick some tail in future Smash titles.

I’m still hoping for better representation of the original SNES trilogy. There is barely any music from DKC 2 or 3 and I wish they had gone with the Diddy and Dixie team instead of just Diddy by himself. It would be cool if they could incorporate the animal buddies into a Smash moveset. That would be my ideal for Dixie Kong if it’s too late to pair her with Diddy.

I feel like Donkey Kong himself could almost be completely reworked. Other than his down special and now thankfully his dash attack, everything else seems completely made up for Smash. They could change his neutral special to the Coconut Gun, his up special could be launching himself from a barrel, and his forward special could be tossing a barrel like in the original arcade games.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think it's a travesty that Donkey Kong still doesn't have his Coconut Gun somewhere in his moveset. I'm aware Diddy has a peanut gun, but it's just not the same. After all, it has to be charged - and peanuts don't fire in spurts. I think that the Coconut Gun would provide a solid projectile option to DK, which would bring him at least slightly up the tier list and give him more defensive and neutral options aside from pure melee. However, I think it should be slow but very powerful - if he shoots you, it's gonna hurt. It'd be a fine way to really kick some tail in future Smash titles.

DK's moveset design in Smash is that of being a close ranged, no frills brawler, like Zangief. They probably think giving him a projectile like that would be out of place or unbalanced or something.

Same reason Ike doesn't have a projectile despite having one in his games, because Sakurai didn't think giving a projectile to be a big powerful swordfighter would be that balanced, or something along those lines.

 

[SKX31]

(Oh jeez I've written practically an essay. Spoilering parts of this for easier readability.)

I think it's a travesty that Donkey Kong still doesn't have his Coconut Gun somewhere in his moveset. I'm aware Diddy has a peanut gun, but it's just not the same. After all, it has to be charged - and peanuts don't fire in spurts. I think that the Coconut Gun would provide a solid projectile option to DK, which would bring him at least slightly up the tier list and give him more defensive and neutral options aside from pure melee. However, I think it should be slow but very powerful - if he shoots you, it's gonna hurt. It'd be a fine way to really kick some tail in future Smash titles.

I’m still hoping for better representation of the original SNES trilogy. There is barely any music from DKC 2 or 3 and I wish they had gone with the Diddy and Dixie team instead of just Diddy by himself. It would be cool if they could incorporate the animal buddies into a Smash moveset. That would be my ideal for Dixie Kong if it’s too late to pair her with Diddy.

I feel like Donkey Kong himself could almost be completely reworked. Other than his down special and now thankfully his dash attack, everything else seems completely made up for Smash. They could change his neutral special to the Coconut Gun, his up special could be launching himself from a barrel, and his forward special could be tossing a barrel like in the original arcade games.

Spoiler: On DK

FWIW DK has been seen as at least a decent character in three straight Smash games (Melee, Brawl, 4); It's just that in Melee and Brawl "decent" = "very rarely seen in Serious Business settings". The high point is no doubt Smash 4, specifically after a patch introduced the "Ding Dong" kill confirm. It got so notorious that not only did Ultimate go out of the way to nerf it specifically, they also made grabbing riskier for DK even if the reward was overall improved.

DK currently is in kind of a rough position, so yeah, I can see changes there. Very easy to pick up and play - and he works fine as a casual character. And he's not considered a bad character However, his most pressing practical problem is that once he's on the backfoot... oh boy. One could make the argument that it's a problem casually - he has little defense if something clips his giant frame - and in competitive scenarios due to the above. He does have armor... but on three special moves, which is more situational than Bowser's and K Rool's.

As far as canonical representation goes, yeah no complaints there. The main issue - one which I'm assuredly not alone in holding - is that he currently feels like he's just doing generic gorilla thing. Which was fine considering 64's short development time, but isn't the direction conductive to canonical representation to begin with.

I wouldn't mind the Gun - if you ask me, replace Headbutt. Giant Punch is the prototypical big hit and a very casual-friendly attack, there's certainly an argument for keeping it intact. Headbutt doesn't have the same luxury: it's been since Melee a really bad example of "generic gorilla thing" and a situational move rolled into one. You know what to expect whenever a DK player uses it (especially with a charged Giant Punch). The only interesting thing I've seen it used is to use its armor to help snap ledge. And even then both Giant Punch and Spinning Kong have armor, so it has competition in that department too.

There's also a case for solving both a practical and canonical problem for DK - barrels could improve his disadvantage problem while simultaneously improving his connection to DK canon. Up B might be a really goos slot: Spinning Kong's been consistently improved (and is a good-to-great out of shield counterattack) but it's not been amazing, whether casually or in Serious Business hands.

(Also, I don't really understand why DK has four moves that meteor / spike, feels like overkill.)

DK's moveset design in Smash is that of being a close ranged, no frills brawler, like Zangief. They probably think giving him a projectile like that would be out of place or unbalanced or something.

Same reason Ike doesn't have a projectile despite having one in his games, because Sakurai didn't think giving a projectile to be a big powerful swordfighter would be that balanced, or something along those lines.

Think his main worry is that it would be difficult for most of the players (i.e. those not in the higher levels) to deal with. This was exemplified by , which Sakurai noted (emphasis mine):

Something that ended up being a little troubling to me were fighters like King K. Rool. According to a survey on Dwango’s Niconico, the consensus seemed to be that King K. Rool was a strong character – that ended up not being the case. Overall his victory rate was 51.9%, and in Elite Smash it was 48.9%.

The general consensus seems to be that King K. Rool is strong, but I imagine that there are also people that think “no fair!” when they lose to him. Looking at our records, though, I don’t really see any need to adjust him. Though, I think there’ll still be people that’ll continue to be stressed out about fighting him if I don’t mess with him any – so I think I’ll wait to hear what the adjustment team has to say.

(Do note that this was January 2019 - K. Rool would later wind up as one of Ultimate's most buffed characters. )

Sakurai's fears are probably based on a couple assumptions:

A) Casual players / newcomers can struggle when fighting heavyweights. Most heavyweights are bruisers - meaning they focus on raw power - and most casual players and newcomers aren't going to comfortably string comboes or aggressively go off stage (nor do they look to). This leads to a lot of 1-for-1 blows... where heavyweights get to shine thanks to their raw power dealing more damage and knockback than most lightweight blows. Their weight allows them to take more individual punches too - it compensates for them being larger targets. Tack on a lot of heavyweights having armor of some sort (which is done to help allieviate their issues being comboed in higher levels), and yeah. Items can and oftentimes do even the playing field casually, but a lot of items also kill very early, so their overall impact is all over the place. Which granted is the point, but still.

B) Projectiles are another thing a lot of casual players / newcomers often struggle with. It's a fighting game-wide issue, but REACT (you know the "X Reacts to..." video guys) showed this very well when they pitted reactors - casual players - vs. the man once annointed "The King of Smash" by the Melee fanbase - Ken Hoang. Ken's retired and has not participated in any Ultimate tournaments that I know of - he mostly works as a streamer for Team Liquid. Still though, take a good look at his match vs. Austin, where Ken's playing Simon. Austin's befuddled question:

"How do you dodge these projectiles?"

Is extremly apt here. Playing vs. projectiles is partly a knowledge thing (for example: does my character have a reflector / absorber? Austin might not have known has one.) and partly being unpredictable with one's approach so as to effectively avoid them. Something which casual players are not neccessarily going to know. Add to that Ultimate's online benefitting projectile spam, and yeah.

Spoiler: Sidenote: Ike's lack of Ragnell beam and King Dedede's minions

This is also relevant to and . To quote Sakurai:

Interviewer: Robin is a character who’s more about ranged attacks anyway.

Sakurai: Moreover, I thought it would be more fun to include an attack that can absorb percentage, like Nosferatu. Of course, the initial tactician class can’t use Nosferatu. But Ike doesn’t use projectile attacks with Ragnell, either, so it’s all part of balancing the game. Knowing the source material and then making each of the fighters unique is how they ended up the way they are today.

MockRock complained about Ike's lack of Ragnell beam in particular here - especially since wound up with Blade Beam intact. And the youtuber included both Eruption and DK's Headbutt in his "moves that should be deleted from Smash" video. As for Dedede, I don't think we have the direct evidence we do Ike, but consider that Waddle Dees / Doos (in Brawl) were limited to two minions out max, and Gordos from Smash 4 onwards can be reflected by anything.

Put those two together, and add K Rool's Belly Armor / Up B on top, and yeah, that's probably why Sakurai has not given DK his cocunut gun - he was worried that K Rool (a character who's known for tossing crowns and shooting cannonballs, mind) was overpowering. And the early discourse (which was echoed in the West, not just in Dwango's Niconico) treated K Rool as strong... until competitive players discovered his weaknesses and his reputation cratered. Japanese pros such as Raito (direct image here) called him the outright worst in the game during 3.1 - inbetween Joker and the E3 2019 reveals. It was this cratering - both in Japan and internationally - that probably caused them to buff him.

I'm bringing up K Rool's journey through Ultimate's life to illustrate that those experiences may help him revamp DK next time around. If K Rool has been released for over 3 years now and has not been an overwhelming (yet still potentially difficult to go against for casual players) character, then it wouldn't be out of the question for them to be more comfortable giving DK a gun next time around.

K Rool's projectiles do have their drawbacks intact - the Crown can be picked up by opponents (which can used for combo extensions and edgeguards against him, something he doesn't really get to enjoy), and the cannonball has a 2.5 sec cooldown after use. So I'd imagine DK's cocunut gun would have similar drawbacks.

 

[PeridotGX]

I’m pretty clueless as to where current technology is power-wise. How far away are we from a hybrid console like a Switch successor from having graphics and power on par with PS4 and X-Box One? It would be kind of a shame to get another new Nintendo console that can’t even keep up with the previous generation. I personally only play my Switch in docked mode so I don’t really care much about the portability aspect but I understand that it’s important for a lot of people and a big part of the Switch’s success.

I've noticed most of Nintendo's handhelds are about 10 years behind home consoles power-wise. The original Game Boy is much weaker than the NES, the GBA is basically a portable SNES, the DS is kinda close to the PS1, the 3DS is around the GameCube, and the Switch is on par with the Xbox 360 and PS3. If the pattern holds, we're probably getting something PS4 level, maybe a little stronger (but probably not at the level of the Pro).

 

[Yamat08]

In other news:

The Super Smash Bros. series hits a new milestone this year with 69 million units sold in pic.twitter.com/fpIJx2ntbR

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) February 3, 2022

And here's Zhuge's thread on the Switch's sales update (total 103.54 million) in general. Numbers worth pointing out include the regional totals:

Japan: 24.36m
Americas: 40.12m
Europe: 26.98m
Other: 12.09m

Wow. Smash 3DS sold less than Brawl? I guess Smash4 combined beats it, though who wants to bet that several of those sales were from people who bought both versions?

Lol yeah that’s probably true. It might actually do the company some good to have some restrictions on hardware so they don’t end up spending 10+ years on one game. I’d love to go back to the glory days of FFVI-X.

Honestly, I never got behind any of the hype for VII Remake. I mean, putting aside my lukewarm opinions on VII in the first place (for those who never saw my previous posts, I think it's good but NOT in any way the best in the series), it only seems to further emphasize Squenix's overly bloated attempts at AAA development in the past couple of decades. All this time spent on a 20-year-old game...... only part of a 20-year-old game.... only part of a 20-year-old game that doesn't even faithfully adapt as a remake should do and goes completely off the frickin' rails with the story. Yeah.

I'm starting to think buying a newer Switch than my old launch model is going to be worth it in a year or two. The longer Nintendo waits to release a new system, the less likely it seems that it will be backwards compatible with the old one. We could see physical games work on the new system, especially since the Switch is the only system since the GameCube to not do that, but I have doubts that Nintendo of all companies would transfer a decade of digital titles to the new system.

I said it before, but I'm really hoping that consoles will just adopt a centralized, fully backwards-compatible (at least going forward) model like what PC has (and what Xbox seems to be going with now). I mean, I could kinda understand dropping it with the Switch due to the major interface shift from the WiiU (plus, the WiiU was mostly a flop and its own backwards compatibility with the Wii was awkwardly implemented), but now that the media is mostly digital, I don't see why they can't just keep it going. In fact, I recall Sony getting quite a bit of blowback for the PS4 dropping all of its backwards compatibility (even though there's no reason it couldn't play a sizeable portion of the existing digital library..... for Christ's sake, a PSP could play the PS1 Classics), and perhaps one reason why the PS5 can at least use PS4 games.

I've noticed most of Nintendo's handhelds are about 10 years behind home consoles power-wise. The original Game Boy is much weaker than the NES, the GBA is basically a portable SNES, the DS is kinda close to the PS1, the 3DS is around the GameCube, and the Switch is on par with the Xbox 360 and PS3. If the pattern holds, we're probably getting something PS4 level, maybe a little stronger (but probably not at the level of the Pro).

But with the Switch, it's actually more powerful than the previous console (albeit not overwhelmingly so). I guess because of the WiiU's failure, Nintendo kinda needed to strongarm their portable development through because the 3DS clearly wasn't going to make it much longer as their main platform (even with the New3DS, which was horribly under-utilized for exclusives).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Know what, the Switch is maybe getting a little old, but that doesn't have to mean games cannot look absolutely beautiful. What I feel is sort of missing in this generation is the Switch's version of a game that graphically jumps out with it's uniqueness and beauty, as games as Donkey Kong Country and it's sequels did for the SNES, and Wind Waker did for the GameCube. I would even add Golden Sun to the mix, cause those graphics also where also great for their time with the GBA.

What am hoping for is that this new rumored Donkey Kong game, Metroid Prime 4, and just maybe with some luck, a new or remake of Golden Sun will bring exactly this to the Switch, and maybe that is the reason why despite the rumors (DKC and GS) of these games, and the reason why we didn't see Prime 4 in any shape or form yet is because they're doing something special and ground shaking with these games.

About Donkey Kong, yes his moveset has serious flaws. He should be a grappler, that's his main gimmick since the start. Melee and Smash 4 DK relied very heavily around his grab mechanic competitively, but it would be nice if DK had the defenses to actually effectively get the grabs in. A Side B change I always proposed was giving DK a sort of command grabbing attack for Side B, the attack he basically uses to finish opponents off in the Retro games, situational, but powerful. Down B aerial should be the shockwave from Jungle Beat where he can push opponents off with in his disadvantage state, and fast so. Should be good as an edge guard option too. F Air needs armor and more speed and possibly range, DK needs to be able to approach. Roll needs armor. Down B needs armor and possibly a charge up mechanic that allows for more range, also more hitstun on impact so DK can follow up on hit. Giant Punch definitely needs to stay, it's another main gimmick of his that's very fitting.

 

[Chuderz]

Loving the Donkey Kong discussion. He feels mostly right but yeah he needs some help and maybe a new move. Just a quick shoutout to my Shield-Special philosophy but Donkey Kong's current Side-Special would be PERFECT for a Shield-Special following my guidelines for them though I'd make his quicker than an Inkling empty to full charge cutting the startup in about half and keep the super armor. Here's that hypothetical fanmade design philosophy: https://smashboards.com/threads/nex...scussion-thread.515747/page-136#post-24647491

Anyways yeah I agree with most of what Diddy Kong is saying and really like the suggestion for the Down-Special charge. Basically just give him Tough Guy. Though I wouldn't mind giving him a projectile instead of a command grab but I think I'd opt out of the coconut gun in favor of the barrel instead. Speaking of Jungle Beat I think Donkey could definitely be given a wall jump for some extra recovery help. Quick aside but I'd give anybody between Kazuya and Bowser's weight Tough Guy honestly. Just seems fair to me considering all their downsides.

One thing that annoys me about Donkey Kong is his Up-Smash. It has a very deceptively small hitbox. The arms are basically not doing anything until the final clap and that's just dumb. I've had characters set to jump that are basically a Sephiroth's worth of space in between Donkey Kong's attack and you'll literally see these giant gorilla fists go right through them doing absolutely nothing even worse than Cloud's Up-Air on its worst day. I'd buff it (Donkey Kong's Up-Smash) so that it'd scoop any opponents with his arms INTO the final clap for extra damage. Similar to how Cloud's Down-Smash functions in scooping characters into it should it connect. I'd love it if DK's Down-Smash had that grounding sweet spot that Mr. Game & Watch's does too.

Maybe give him a third jab strike slightly reanimating that cool ledge attack strike he does for the third hit? That'd be cool and give him some more damage thus playing to his strengths.

All this would make him objectively better so of course it'd come with very loud "BROKEN" detractors which is kind of funny at this point. It seems like which characters are allowed to be better basically relies entirely on the detractors' personal feelings about the character in question. Imagine my shock if you will.

 

[Stratos]

I just read on a website that Nintendo is going to buy either Capcom or Sega. Although I do not believe this, if it is true I would say that it will buy Sega, because old games that were released on Sega consoles, have also been released on Nintendo Online from the Wii U to the Nintendo Switch.

 

[Ivander]

I just read on a website that Nintendo is going to buy either Capcom or Sega. Although I do not believe this, if it is true I would say that it will buy Sega, because old games that were released on Sega consoles, have also been released on Nintendo Online from the Wii U to the Nintendo Switch.

Mind giving the website/source?

 

[PeridotGX]

Mind giving the website/source?

There is no source because it's not real. Nintendo literally just said they don't plan on doing any acquisitions.

https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-acquisition-dna

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don't think Nintendo would need/want to buy Sega or Capcom anyway given the current market. Many of the franchises of the AAA variety are ones often demanding strong hardware which Nintendo is not interested in, and all the other ones are going to end up on their consoles anyway. Doubly so, given the virtual monopoly the company has in Japan. Sega knows Sonic sells on Nintendo and Capcom banked on MH Rise selling big, so why spend that much money to get companies when you're already getting a lot of value from them already? They're profitable obviously, but given Nintendo's history, the only way I could see themm acquiring either is if Sony/Microsoft was buying them, which we have yet to see evidence of.

 

[Ivander]

There is no source because it's not real. Nintendo literally just said they don't plan on doing any acquisitions.

https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-acquisition-dna

I'm very aware of that. I still want to see the site that's making the claim.

By the way, in that article when they talk of people who don't have Nintendo DNA, I think they are more so referring to people who don't want to develop for just Nintendo. Cause I think they also mentioned about how the games are all about the people and not simply the company. And if the people aren't happy, that will have an effect on the games being made.
It's something I've been hearing about Sony and Bungie is that supposedly Sony paid extra in order to encourage/keep the employees working there, implying that there are some people at Bungie who aren't particularly happy about the buyout.

 

[Stratos]

I'm very aware of that. I still want to see the site that's making the claim.

By the way, in that article when they talk of people who don't have Nintendo DNA, I think they are more so referring to people who don't want to develop for just Nintendo. Cause I think they also mentioned about how the games are all about the people and not simply the company. And if the people aren't happy, that will have an effect on the games being made.
It's something I've been hearing about Sony and Bungie is that supposedly Sony paid extra in order to encourage/keep the employees working there, implying that there are some people at Bungie who aren't particularly happy about the buyout.

This rumor about Nintendo that it will buy Capcom or Sega, I read on Facebook and as I wrote I do not believe it.