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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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I will admit that I did get fairly lucky with characters in Ultimate. I was really hyped for Sephiroth, K. Rool, Joker, and Ridley and there were several others I was happy to see. It was awesome finally seeing RARE get a Smash character even if Banjo isn’t my favorite character from them. I definitely sympathize for those that didn’t really get anyone that appealed to them. If it means more people can have the same excitement I had for those reveals, I’m more than happy to get fewer of my own personal most wanted characters.
 

Louie G.

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I feel like it's also very easy for that to become a "i'm a true fan vs those fake hypeseeker things" and assume bad faith in every case without really talking about the topic with more nuance.
I totally agree with this too - for what it’s worth, I actually do want Waluigi and Master Chief. But the rhetoric around who’s worth adding and who isn’t has definitely snowballed where it’s easy to read it as an us vs them routine. Especially when so much of it comes at the expense and downplaying of first party Nintendo characters.

I don’t personally consider myself any truer of a fan than the guy who ran out of Nintendo characters to support just because I still want a Rhythm Heaven character or because I care more about Wii Fit Trainer than Sora. I understand why speculation has become so third party centric. It’s just when people emphasize how the game won’t sell without them or that Smash has undergone some unreversable change in identity that I really start to question it.
 
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Gengar84

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The whole “real fan” mentality is dumb in my opinion. If you enjoy the game, then you’re a real fan in my eyes. Nothing else beyond that really matters. People are free to like or dislike the game for whatever reason they choose and that doesn’t make their feelings any less real.
 

SharkLord

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Yeah, i'd like them to re-visit the more realistic/gritty art style, altrough i'd like them to try a new art style as well.
Something like Mystery Dungeon DX could be interesting, but might be too alienating?:
View attachment 390159
Something stylized like PMD would be great. Photorealism never interested me, still doesn't. I don't need Smash to completely redo the animation style and framerate and all that, like with Guilty Gear or Hi-Fi Rush, but in general stylized, painted/cel-shaded graphics have kinda become a big thing nowadays. Think it started with Into the Spider-Verse; Regardless of orgins, it's in the vogue now and I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 6 leaned into that. Maybe not exactly like PMD's watercolor style, but at least some sort of stylization
I understand and agree with your point, but I do think GTA VI probably isn't a great example, it's a unique cirumstance. Like, GTA VI is probably going to become the most successful media release in human history lol.

I will say though, this is loosely related, but I do think the whole "Ultimate became too much about hype, nobody cared about the actual game anymore" sentiment I see sometimes is kind of just dressing up "it didn't add the characters im interested in" in a bit of a sanctimonious way. I think there is something to be said about how that game's hype cycle turned out and a lot of the toxicity that came in and such, and how the marketing leaned into that, but I feel like it's also very easy for that to become a "i'm a true fan vs those fake hypeseeker things" and assume bad faith in every case without really talking about the topic with more nuance. I'm being a bit sanctimonious myself here, but I think in general it's not hard to get lost in the sauce when you spend so much time on hardcore internet communities like this.
The way I see it, it's less that nobody cared about the game and more that the game itself became centralized more around the big reveals, at least during the DLC period. In the base game, there was a lot of hype for World of Light as finally giving us a story mode again, but for the DLC it's just a line of fighters and their supplementary content, like stages or Spirits. Since it's DLC, they'd obviously try to get people incentivized to buy it, so they slam us with popular but unexpected characters like Joker or super big requests like Banjo, opening up far more possibilities for third-parties than there was before. And since we knew there were limited slots each Fighter's Pass, speculation became a lot more competitive because each new fighter is one less chance for your most wanteds.

Really, I think it's just the natural course of the DLC, since there's only so much extra you could add with the skeleton crew, and if the game itself prioritizes fighters over all else that's going to be the main focus. And I myself was always there for that seasonal hype surge, so I can't criticize that "hype culture" (for lack of a better word) without being just a bit hypocritical. But it did feel rather overcompetitive, and while this is largely personal preference, I feel it lost that unique status as a time capsule of the era, the way past Smash games were. I'm fine if Smash 6 cools off a bit and returns to the usual Smash formula, at least for the base game.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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I totally agree with this too - for what it’s worth, I actually do want Waluigi and Master Chief. But the rhetoric around who’s worth adding and who isn’t has definitely snowballed where it’s easy to read it as an us vs them routine. Especially when so much of it comes at the expense and downplaying of first party Nintendo characters.

I don’t personally consider myself any truer of a fan than the guy who ran out of Nintendo characters to support just because I still want a Rhythm Heaven character or because I care more about Wii Fit Trainer than Sora. I understand why speculation has become so third party centric. It’s just when people emphasize how the game won’t sell without them or that Smash has undergone some unreversable change in identity that I really start to question it.
Yeah, that's what I mean by there being more nuance to it. I think it's part of the matter of like, the split between Smash being viewed as gaming all-stars and like a virtual museum as opposed to specifically a nintendo game as opposed to somewhere in-between, and more perspectives between all that as well. Smash itself wasn't the most clear on this during Ultimate's cycle, and it's easy to latch on to whatever part you want the most basically. So it all ends up reflecting that, and that's encouraged by the hype cycle. It's easy to notice with like, stuff like the subreddit pretty quickly shifting to exclusively gameplay and competitive focus when everything wraps up, which happened for both Smash 4 and Ultimate and is part of why I don't place too much stock in the idea that nobody cares about the gameplay and it's impossible to discuss.

Personally I'm not too bothered who gets in or who doesn't currently, I think this stuff is fun to discuss and I have some attachment to the community so I participate, but while there's obvs characters I like and would be decently happy to see get in, there's really nothing that would get me feeling super strongly one way or the other, I feel like I just can't muster up that kind of emotion lol. The only character I can think of who would probably bother me a bit if they got in is like, Pyramid Head.
 
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fogbadge

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I will admit that I did get fairly lucky with characters in Ultimate. I was really hyped for Sephiroth, K. Rool, Joker, and Ridley and there were several others I was happy to see. It was awesome finally seeing RARE get a Smash character even if Banjo isn’t my favorite character from them. I definitely sympathize for those that didn’t really get anyone that appealed to them. If it means more people can have the same excitement I had for those reveals, I’m more than happy to get fewer of my own personal most wanted characters.
that’s a good way of looking at things. for me the ultimate newcomers were quite a mix. some dreams come true and some bitter disappointments. and at least one case of confusion.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Considering I got Palutena in Smash 4, Banjo and Pyra in Ultimate, and all of my most wanted characters except for like Bandana Dee are probably longshots, I'm gonna be pretty chill about whoever gets in next game, though obviously I hope characters like Banjo and Pyra come back (though I don't see any reason they wouldn't, personally).
 

Gengar84

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that’s a good way of looking at things. for me the ultimate newcomers were quite a mix. some dreams come true and some bitter disappointments. and at least one case of confusion.
I actually got my least wanted and one of my most wanted characters back to back. That was certainly one heck of a ride lol.
 

TheQuester

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Some will be upset and others won’t care and will just be enamored by the new. Lot of people who are upset over a handful of characters will buy the game anyway, like most of us.
Well, yeah, i've seen plenty of people who don't care about the pokedex cut and enjoy swsh and sv, so i'm sure Smash 6 will have plenty of fans who wouldn't be affected much by the cuts or the community reaction to it as well, they'll just play Smash 6 :drshrug:
 
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fogbadge

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I actually got my least wanted and one of my most wanted characters back to back. That was certainly one heck of a ride lol.
that’ll do it

You know what would be wicked sick?

DIGIMON in Smash. I would kill to see Agumon and his evolution to Wargreymon in Smash.
You and me both
 

Gengar84

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You know what would be wicked sick?

DIGIMON in Smash. I would kill to see Agumon and his evolution to Wargreymon in Smash.
Yeah, I really enjoyed Cyber Sleuth and the PS1 Digimon World so a Digimon would be cool. I’m not huge on Agumon specifically but it makes sense since it’s basically the mascot like Pikachu. My favorites are Ogremon and Meramon.
 

TheQuester

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Real Smash fans are still playing the Brawl coin launcher. Everyone else is fake.
Im actually playing Brawl right now and did coin launcher some minutes ago lmao, after 6 years of playing Ultimate is fun to boot up and play single player modes of 64, Melee, Brawl and 4 lol.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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Well, yeah, i've seen plenty of people who don't care about the pokedex cut and enjoy swsh and sv, so i'm sure Smash 6 will have plenty of fans who wouldn't be affected much by the cuts or the community reaction to it as well, they'll just play Smash 6 :drshrug:
I actually believe Pokémon is a very good example of how momentum can still potentially be kept up even if it doesn't necessarily keep everything people want. An example that Smash could very much follow in the footsteps of.

...well, for the most part, because I think Sword and Shield's momentum ended up being pretty bad, regardless of Dexit. But I don't hear that many specific complaints about Gen 9, or especially Legends Arceus, suffering from it.
 
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SharkLord

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You know what would be wicked sick?

DIGIMON in Smash. I would kill to see Agumon and his evolution to Wargreymon in Smash.
I used to watch a lot of Digimon as a kid and then faded out of it. That said I distinctly remember MetalGreymon was humongous so let's have MetaGreymon specifically, he's the size of Giga Bowser, have fun suckers
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Imagine Beelzemon as a Min Min style pick where a higher up (in this case the designer) got to pick favorites.
**** it, been wanting to discuss this guy for over a month as a potential darkhorse pick for the franchise but figured not many would partake. But since the subject of Digimon had been brought up anyway, now's the time.



I know "he isn't Agumon/WarGreymon" and it's still a higher probability for them, but I feel there's a surprisingly strong case where if the floor was open to "a Digimon" in general, he's got a decent shot.

Constantly ranking very high in popularity polls, even higher than Agumon (but typically less than WarGreymon), one of the more merchandised Digimon, a Creator's Pet (for Kenji Watanabe, the official designer of the franchise), a regular in the video games either by himself or with the whole set of the Seven Demon Lords, etc.
 

Louie G.

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Well, yeah, i've seen plenty of people who don't care about the pokedex cut and enjoy swsh and sv, so i'm sure Smash 6 will have plenty of fans who wouldn't be affected much by the cuts or the community reaction to it as well, they'll just play Smash 6 :drshrug:
Yes, this is 100% true, although I'll always feel a bit wary of the Pokedex comparison here. Pokemon had set a precedent up to that point of including every single Pokemon in each game. Smash has set that precedent a total of two times - from 64 to Melee, when it was only expanding on 12 characters, and then Smash Ultimate which was advertised on the merit of bringing back every character. With Pokemon, up to SWSH, that was just a given.

I think talking this way about Smash treats it as an "other" in a way that I don't agree with. At risk of starting another pedantic argument, Smash Bros is a fighting game. Every fighting game has to go through this routine - characters leave, new characters join, old characters come back. Many of these series have remained healthy, or even found great success with a condensed base roster - recently, Guilty Gear and Street Fighter. Games like Tekken shed their guest characters every time. Smash Bros spoils us, and we've just reached an apex that I hope people will be mature about.
 
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JOJONumber691

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Probably not due to Tsunku. Like I said four years ago at this point I am fully convinced it was either Bowser Jr. or Chorus Kids (spelt Marshall) during 3DS and Wii U’s development, and that Jr. was just the one prioritized due to Tsunku’s copyright over 90% of the series music. And since Rhythm Heaven was niche and partially owned by another party, in comparison to Jr who is a Mario Character, a mainstay at that, the character was passed over for 3DS and Wii U, never making it back as DLC or in Ultimate despite probably having progress done on them. A shame too because Marshall is the exact type of weird pick I love to see.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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Also, isn't Digimon an anime first? (correct me if im wrong)
A virtual pet first.
Then console game (Digimon World).
Well technically Digital Monster Ver. S was the first console game, but that was like a console version of the virtual pets while World was its own thing.

And there were a couple manga between the virtual pet debut and Ver. S, but still. Point is Digimon didn't start with an anime.
 
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Louie G.

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I do wonder if they'll add one in Smash 6?
I really hope so, but with the lack of new RH content for nearly a decade now and the lack of loud, visible support for the series in Smash I really can't count on it. After the scrapped content in Smash 4, there was seemingly no desire to revisit it in Ultimate and feels like even less incentive today. I'm still going to shout from the rooftops that Rhythm Heaven should have a playable character, but I've been disappointed twice over now and no new speck of hope has presented itself.

I am optimistic about certain dormant series getting their dues next game. I've spoken very positively of Isaac's chances. I just don't think Rhythm Heaven support has ever reached close to that level, which would be the only way I could see it getting considered without a new game to put it back on the radar. That is unless Sakurai finally decides to revisit his scrapped ideas, I suppose.

Probably not due to Tsunku.
Not for nothing, but even if this was initially an obstacle it's not a damning one. Smash has worked through sticky music rights before, and I don't see Tsunku being that much more protective over RH's music than some music we already have in the game. But if both Chorus Kids and Bowser Jr were of lower priority and development was down to the wire then yeah, it could have contributed to that decision. I just don't think that would bar the series from Smash altogether.
 
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Speed Weed

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In terms of wants, the big one I got this game that I was very happy with was Terry. There's still plenty of stuff I'd enjoy seeing though, mind, but I don't know how likely a lot of it is - though you'll still catch me fanning the flag for Arle, Phantasy Star, more Capcom, more SNK, stuff like that
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Even with the virtual pet thing and people arguing if it counts as video games, game & watch kinda fits in the same category and he's in Smash. What I'm most curious about is how much from the anime will be taken for Smash, like at the very least butter-fly HAS to come as a song.
Probably as much that is taken from the Pokémon anime. As in characterization and voices and some aspects that may have come from the anime first (like in the case of Beelzemon specifically, the Behemoth bike) but not much more than that because copyright.
 

JOJONumber691

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I really hope so, but with the lack of new RH content for nearly a decade now and the lack of loud, visible support for the series in Smash I really can't count on it. After the scrapped content in Smash 4, there was seemingly no desire to revisit it in Ultimate and feels like even less incentive today. I'm still going to shout from the rooftops that Rhythm Heaven should have a playable character, but I've been disappointed twice over now and no new speck of hope has presented itself.

I am optimistic about certain dormant series getting their dues next game. I've spoken very positively of Isaac's chances. I just don't think Rhythm Heaven support has ever reached close to that level, which would be the only way I could see it getting considered without a new game to put it back on the radar. That is unless Sakurai finally decides to revisit his scrapped ideas, I suppose.



Not for nothing, but even if this was initially an obstacle it's not a damning one. Smash has worked through sticky music rights before, and I don't see Tsunku being that much more protective over RH's music than some music we already have in the game. But if both Chorus Kids and Bowser Jr were of lower priority and development was down to the wire then yeah, it could have contributed to that decision. I just don't think that would bar the series from Smash altogether.
This was back in 2014 probably, so while not impossible the precedent was likely not set still. I have some hope if RH gets a new game though.
 

Stratos

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Just thought of something, Daitouryou from Nintendo's hanafuda cards is one of the characters I'd like to see as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros series to represent what Nintendo started at its founding. But I don't know if it would be the right choice because some say he just looks like Napoleon while others think Daitouryou is Napoleon and no one would want a character in the Super Smash Bros series who is or was a real person. So I'd say the other option for this is ultimately Tengu, the other character from Nintendo's hanafuda cards.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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I really hope so, but with the lack of new RH content for nearly a decade now and the lack of loud, visible support for the series in Smash I really can't count on it. After the scrapped content in Smash 4, there was seemingly no desire to revisit it in Ultimate and feels like even less incentive today. I'm still going to shout from the rooftops that Rhythm Heaven should have a playable character, but I've been disappointed twice over now and no new speck of hope has presented itself.

I am optimistic about certain dormant series getting their dues next game. I've spoken very positively of Isaac's chances. I just don't think Rhythm Heaven support has ever reached close to that level, which would be the only way I could see it getting considered without a new game to put it back on the radar. That is unless Sakurai finally decides to revisit his scrapped ideas, I suppose.
I've been hoping for Tibby as a moveset utilizing lots of different Rhythm Heaven characters in his moveset, primarily because I feel like it makes sense for the "compilation game" of sorts Megamix was, and Tibby is the main character of Rhythm Heaven's only story mode to date (and as a personal aside, I've always felt like Karate Joe is kinda boring considering how wacky Rhythm Heaven is, hence me picking the little dog guy with the afro).

Unfortunately, because of the reasons you described, he's firmly in my longshots category. Would love to see him, but I can't see it happening unless Rhythm Heaven gets a new game, and even then I worry about the timing at this point lol
 

RileyXY1

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The question is whether Sakurai counts virtual pets as video games or not. He might consider them to be toys instead thus making Digimon ineligible for Smash.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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The question is whether Sakurai counts virtual pets as video games or not. He might consider them to be toys instead thus making Digimon ineligible for Smash.
I would think they'd be eligible since Nintendog has been an Assist Trophy in every game that has them, and even with the toy thing, we still have ROB.
 

TheQuester

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Tbh, i'm still not convinced, i wouldn't call it a digimon rep impossible like Goku and the like, but i wouldn't count of their inclusion.
 
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