Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

(I do wonder how they'll handle a advance wars stage, tho....)

Basically, I think an Advance Wars stage would involve the various combat units as hazards and/or platforms. It could potentially also transition between land, air, and sea.

I always liked "Orange Star HQ" as the potential title of the stage. You'd start off fighting in the area surrounding the HQ tower, kind of like you're in the middle of an Advance Wars battle. If it's a moving/transform stage, then maybe at some point you get lifted into the air surrounding the upper portions of the tower, and then maybe later those platforms crash down into the sea and you have to get aboard some ships, which eventually bring you ashore, back at the tower. I think it would be cool having to jump from plane to plane or from ship to ship, and I like the idea of it being like a battle within a battle.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Having mii costumes shows support and acknowledgement of their wanted inclusion into the roster since most third party costumes are wanted characters

I hope this also extends to spirits too, because...

 

[BritishGuy54]

what if Xenoblade replaced FE's roster size in SSB ? , as it relates to character slots ? & FE was reduced to 3-4 playable characters ?

1. Shulk
2. Alvis (echo of Shulk)
3. Pyra & Mythra
4. Pneuma (echo of Mythra)
5. Rex (XC3)
6. Noah
7. Mio
8. Matthew

1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Robin
4. Byleth

 

[fogbadge]

Oh wait I know another thing

Terriermon is a perfect being

if he gets in the game he better be voice by mona marshal

Smash 6

how unusually honest

Speaking of Great Britain.
What other british VG characters should be in Smash. No matter if that's their nationality or were created there or both.
After all we have Diddy, K. Rool, Banjo, Fox and Falco. (and maybe Shulk and Pythra, but that's more debatable :v)

• Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
• Cammy (Street Fighter)
• Hershel Layton (Professor Layton)
• Bridget (Guilty Gear)
• Tracer (Overwatch)
• Miner Willy (Manic Miner/Jet Set Willy)
• Monty Mole (Monty on the Run)
• Dizzy the Egg
• Zitz, Pimple and Rash (Battletoads)

someone from cassette beasts? i suppose you could argue half the xenoblade cast

 

[Pupp135]

Re:

What would you say are the 7 most likely 1stparties and 7 most likely 3rd parties to get in?

First Party/Second Party (first five are ordered)
Feel pretty confident in
1. Waluigi: He feels like the most likely first party given his large number of requests and the backlash from his assist reveal 6 years ago (time really does fly).
2. Ring Fit Trainee: Ring Fit Adventure is the Switch’s most successful IP to debut on the console by a seemingly large gap.
3. Bandana Waddle Dee: He seems like the second most requested Nintendo character, and he seems like a major Kirby character.
Not certain, but I could realistically see them.
4. Tom Nook/K.K. Slider: I think a third Animal Crossing character is likely, and I’m really just unsure if the developers would rather prioritize Tom or K.K. Slider.
5. DJ Octavio / Squid Sisters: I think Splatoon will have two newcomers (a unique fighter plus Octoling echo), and it’s just a matter of who. I’m leaning towards Octavio for the moment.
6. Ashley: Wario Ware had a decent era on the Switch, and she is one of the more popular characters from this franchise.
7. Excitebike Rider: Sakurai likes having a surprise fighter, and this is the one that I think has the best shot.

Octoling was excluded as I assume they’ll be an echo. Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade are excluded as I think their characters hinge on timing.

Third Party
Not certain, but I could realistically see them.
1. Sans: The Mii outfit was popular, and Undertale would probably be the indie game to break into SSB.
2. Rayman: His series is not incredibly important, but he has non-playable content since base For, so it kind of feels like the foot is already in the door to some degree.
3. Chun-Li: She is a prominent character in fighting game history.
4. Master Chief: Microsoft likes collaborating with Nintendo, and Master Chief seems like a large request at the moment.
5. Doom Slayer: He has similar reasoning to Master Chief, and he has a Mii outfit.
6. Tails / Knuckles / Shadow: Given the requests, I could see a Sonic newcomer joining.
7. Lloyd: This is really a placeholder, and I feel like they’d go for a Tales character before Digimon or Dark Souls

 

[Stratos]

If G&W counts as a video game, then Digimon counts as a video game.

I totally agree, Digimon is a video game franchise and in general Virtual Pet is a subcategory of Life Simulation game which in turn is a subcategory of Simulation video game which is a video game genre. Therefore Digimon as I wrote is a video game franchise. Also Agumon as everyone knows is the mascot of the Digimon franchise and this gives him the ability to come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series and also he is one of the 90 characters I want as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Freduardo]

What makes you think his chances aren’t great? There are so many potential newcomers that I agree any one third party character individually probably doesn’t have great odds but Tales seems like it has a pretty good shot, Lloyd or otherwise. I’m not sure but I’d imagine that Bandai-Namco assisting with the development of Smash probably makes negotiations easier. I feel like any character that has a Mii outfit or Assist Trophy probably has a bit of an edge since they already have one foot in the door. Of course, I could be wrong and Smash is pretty hard to predict.

Honestly just because it has been so long since Symphonia originally came out that the Tales series keeps moving on.... including making a non-multiplayer one that didn't come to switch.

And while I do get the Mii costume argument, and that's a good one.... I also just don't know if Lloyd is the choice for the series. Until Lloyd and Yurii, most of the main protags in Tales played liked Cless, Kratos in Symphonia, or Flynn in Vesperia. So would you go with the two sword demon fang user that can be one main tales protagonist, or the sword and shield demon fang user that can pull a Dragon Quest Hero?

To be fair... Lloyd could be in if they pull the Dragon Quest Hero thing, instead of the shield he just has his parry blade... and they all use demon fang and have move overlap.

I just want more Tales games on the Switch. I've played through Symphonia and Vesperia and Abyss enough and recently enough. I'd like a Berseria or even just Phantasia.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly just because it has been so long since Symphonia originally came out that the Tales series keeps moving on.... including making a non-multiplayer one that didn't come to switch.

And while I do get the Mii costume argument, and that's a good one.... I also just don't know if Lloyd is the choice for the series. Until Lloyd and Yurii, most of the main protags in Tales played liked Cless, Kratos in Symphonia, or Flynn in Vesperia. So would you go with the two sword demon fang user that can be one main tales protagonist, or the sword and shield demon fang user that can pull a Dragon Quest Hero?

To be fair... Lloyd could be in if they pull the Dragon Quest Hero thing, instead of the shield he just has his parry blade... and they all use demon fang and have move overlap.

I just want more Tales games on the Switch. I've played through Symphonia and Vesperia and Abyss enough and recently enough. I'd like a Berseria or even just Phantasia.

Same here. Lloyd isn’t my top choice for a Tales rep. I much prefer a lot of the more recent protagonists like Velvet and Shionne. Yuri was great too. Tales of Arise was really good but the lack of multiplayer kept it from reaching its true potential for me. Part of why I love Tales is playing the games with my brother. Still, it was a ton of fun despite that and I really loved the character growth of party members like Shionne and Rinwell. Maybe we can get a port on the Switch 2.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And while I do get the Mii costume argument, and that's a good one....

It's a lot more beneficial to Lloyd than you think. It means they don't have to model his outfit or swords, and a few of the Mii Swordfighter's special move options seem to be based on Lloyd's moveset, just they'd need to be tweaked to use two swords. And not have cartoony Mii proportions.

 

[Gengar84]

It's a lot more beneficial to Lloyd than you think. It means they don't have to model his outfit or swords, and a few of the Mii Swordfighter's special move options seem to be based on Lloyd's moveset, just they'd need to be tweaked to use two swords. And not have cartoony Mii proportions.

I would imagine they’d make an entirely new model for Lloyd regardless and not try to reuse his Mii outfit model at all. Still, I think it’s a good sign and the fact that they referenced some of his arts for Mii specials is even more so. I’m still going to root for Shionne or Velvet because I prefer them as characters but Lloyd would be fun too.

 

[Louie G.]

I do generally think if we got a Tales character it would be Lloyd. I played devil's advocate for a while with Yuri, who I understand to be the most popular protagonist in the series (or was, at some point in time) but Lloyd already has quite a long standing of Smash support and has the seal of approval from Sakurai himself. His dual swords allow him to stand out more than Yuri and Symphonia is still a pretty well loved game today. Even if the costume doesn't assure him much else, Gengar was right to point out that the choice to make him one at least speaks to his value as a character.

What are his odds overall? I don't really know. I suppose if we got another Namco character, Tales might be the most obvious get. I still think Dark Souls representation is a bit overlooked for this role too, and wouldn't be surprised at all if it were chosen first, but if we brought in another more traditional action RPG I believe Tales is the biggest one without a character. Or with Namco's two biggest series already here, maybe they would want to experiment with more of a fringe pick like Taiko or Xenosaga. There are plenty of good options there but Lloyd is maybe the safest and most reliable one.

 

[Freduardo]

I don't know if I could see them going xenosaga. I think they're more likely to try to sell Xenosaga to Nintendo. Kos-Mos' last appearance was Xenoblade 2 at this point.

That said, if Namco does sell ownership or partial ownership of xenosaga to Nintendo and Monolith decides they're going to remaster/remake those games? Absolutely Kos-Mos comes to Smash.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't know if I could see them going xenosaga. I think they're more likely to try to sell Xenosaga to Nintendo. Kos-Mos' last appearance was Xenoblade 2 at this point.

That said, if Namco does sell ownership or partial ownership of xenosaga to Nintendo and Monolith decides they're going to remaster/remake those games? Absolutely Kos-Mos comes to Smash.

I don't think they would sell the character or IP to Nintendo, but the only reason I brought it up was for the aforementioned Xenoblade crossover. Personally I doubt that KOS-MOS is especially likely but perhaps those ties to a firmly established series in Smash would make it more appealing.

Out of the "fringe picks" I mentioned, Taiko is way bigger but KOS-MOS probably offers more concrete moveset potential and cool factor than Don Wada or Prince of All Cosmos / Katamari. So that would maybe come down to whatever they're most driven by at that point. Still think one of either Tales or Dark Souls would take precedent over any of these series but I just wanted to leave the door open.

 

[Gengar84]

My primary reason for wanting Velvet and Shionne is that I just really like them as characters but I also think it would be cool to get some more playable female characters in Smash. Ultimate has made a big step up in terms of that but more would be awesome.

Similarly, Ultimate has helped a lot in giving us more playable villains but I’d like to see them continue that trend as well. Depending on your perspective, Velvet kind of fills both roles. Other characters like Jenna Anderson, Medusa, Jinx and Sarah Kerrigan would be great too.

 

[Louie G.]

My primary reason for wanting Velvet and Shionne is that I just really like them as characters but I also think it would be cool to get some more playable female characters in Smash. Ultimate has made a big step up in terms of that but more would be awesome.

The fact that Bayonetta is the only female third party character is a little bit glaring, to be honest. It makes me pretty confident that moving forward we'll see someone obvious like Chun-Li or explore a fraction of the multitude of other female protagonists across the grid.

I know I'm inviting the inevitable "you shouldn't just want a character because of their gender" comment but I just happen to like a lot of those female characters already. It would be ridiculous to say someone like Chun-Li would only get in because she's a girl. It's just a nice extra perk that would help round out a pretty heavily skewed lineup of third party guests. Arle and Jill Valentine are among some of my most wanted guest characters as well.

 

[ninjahmos]

The fact that Bayonetta is the only female third party character is a little bit glaring, to be honest. It makes me pretty confident that moving forward we'll see someone obvious like Chun-Li or explore a fraction of the multitude of other female protagonists across the grid.

I know I'm inviting the inevitable "you shouldn't just want a character because of their gender" comment but I just happen to like a lot of those female characters already. It would be ridiculous to say someone like Chun-Li would only get in because she's a girl. It's just a nice extra perk that would help round out a pretty heavily skewed lineup of third party guests. Arle and Jill Valentine are among some of my most wanted guest characters as well.

Lara Croft would also be nice.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Something that stood out to me looking at Japanese smash posts and videos is that Yuri was brought up way more than Lloyd, to me he came across as being the defacto Tales Of pick. It is a limited sample size but I thought it was interesting. I think it would be Lloyd mostly off the back of fan requests, he still got the Mii costume, but I don't think it's as set in stone, like a lot of people have already said.

I would say that in a modern context, Dark Souls is probably just outright the most "important" Japanese franchise which doesn't have significant content in Smash. I feel like the only reason it doesn't get discussed as much is there not being as much overlap with the core Smash/Nintendo fanbase as some other series, and not being as ubuquitously known as someone like Master Chief. But like, Elden Ring could have pretty much the same role in a Switch 2 trailer as Skyrim did in the Switch 1 trailer.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I would imagine they’d make an entirely new model for Lloyd regardless and not try to reuse his Mii outfit model at all.

Well they can't use the wig at least. Mii wigs are modeled to look artificial, almost as if they're...wigs and not real hair.

 

[Perkilator]

I think in terms of newcomers for the next game's base roster, they should have some of the more obvious newcomers in the starting roster have some of the more left-field newcomers be unlockable.

 

[Will]

I think in terms of newcomers for the next game's base roster, they should have some of the more obvious newcomers in the starting roster have some of the more left-field newcomers be unlockable.

I’d really like to just have everyone available in my 80+ character fighting game roster and not suffer in single-player modes for two weeks just so I can play Little Mac again.

 

[Gengar84]

I’d really like to just have everyone available in my 80+ character fighting game roster and not suffer in single-player modes for two weeks just so I can play Little Mac again.

How about if the go back to the old system of fighting games and have an input code at the title screen to unlock all the characters? That way, if you enjoy the experience of unlocking as you play, you can ignore that code and if you want all the characters at the start, you have that option too.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I'm a fiend for unlocking stuff and have even reset my data in Ultimate just to enjoy the unlocking process again because I'm a freak. All you need is a code or a toggle in the options menu. ARMS did something like this for local tournaments.

 

[Will]

How about if the go back to the old system of fighting games and have an input code at the title screen to unlock all the characters? That way, if you enjoy the experience of unlocking as you play, you can ignore that code and if you want all the characters at the start, you have that option too.

In 2024? I’d find it more likely to be a $10 microtransaction minimum.

 

[Gengar84]

In 2024? I’d find it more likely to be a $10 microtransaction minimum.

That’s possible but Sakurai doesn’t strike me as someone who would do that. Plenty of games do though so who knows?

One form of DLC I’m open to that could probably make them a ton of money is additional costumes for non Mii characters. As long as they’re priced fairly (maybe the same price as a Mii outfit), I’d be willing to buy some of them. They can also add DLC for other things like additional songs, items, stages, and other things. I’m open to all those if priced fairly and if they’re not obviously withheld from the initial game and sold day one just to make money.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I know I'm inviting the inevitable "you shouldn't just want a character because of their gender" comment but I just happen to like a lot of those female characters already. It would be ridiculous to say someone like Chun-Li would only get in because she's a girl. It's just a nice extra perk that would help round out a pretty heavily skewed lineup of third party guests. Arle and Jill Valentine are among some of my most wanted guest characters as well.

To be honest I think wanting a character primarily on the basis of wanting more representation is perfectly valid lol. The sentiment you tend to see is that Smash reflects the videogame industry, which lacks a lot of major female/black protagonists who could be added in the first place. I think that's true to an extent, but it's also treating Smash like its roster is built entirely without human input. It's not like Smash is made by an AI which absorbs the videogame industry and spits it back out into a roster of what's most popular, it's still a human making the game and deciding who gets in based on a variety of factors. Not including a more diverse selection of characters is, ultimately, a choice, and Smash lacking so heavily in that regard is pretty obvious. I don't think it would hurt anyone if diversity in that regard was considered more. It's probably saying something that Chad Warden was making jokes about how Smash didn't have any black characters back in 2007 lol.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm a fiend for unlocking stuff and have even reset my data in Ultimate just to enjoy the unlocking process again because I'm a freak. All you need is a code or a toggle in the options menu. ARMS did something like this for local tournaments.

I still think you should use the story mode for unlocking characters in story mode.

Let the mutiplayer modes have everyone just be unlocked.

 

[Gengar84]

To be honest I think wanting a character primarily on the basis of wanting more representation is perfectly valid lol. The sentiment you tend to see is that Smash reflects the videogame industry, which lacks a lot of major female/black protagonists who could be added in the first place. I think that's true to an extent, but it's also treating Smash like its roster is built entirely without human input. It's not like Smash is made by an AI which absorbs the videogame industry and spits it back out into a roster of what's most popular, it's still a human making the game and deciding who gets in based on a variety of factors. Not including a more diverse selection of characters is, ultimately, a choice, and Smash lacking so heavily in that regard is pretty obvious. I don't think it would hurt anyone if diversity in that regard was considered more. It's probably saying something that Chad Warden was making jokes about how Smash didn't have any black characters back in 2007 lol.

Yeah, that’s never the sole factor in my wanting a character but it does play some part. I think more diversity in gaming is a good thing in many ways. Most importantly, it can give more people characters they can connect with and relate to. It also just makes the roster more interesting in my opinion.

I mentioned a bit ago that I think the whole “true fan” mentality is dumb. I think the same is true for saying people can only want a character for any particular reason. There can be many reasons why someone might want a character on the roster and pretty much all of them are valid. Thats just an extension of the whole “true fan” thing in my eyes.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I’d really like to just have everyone available in my 80+ character fighting game roster and not suffer in single-player modes for two weeks just so I can play Little Mac again.

Unpopular opinion but I love Ultimate's approach to unlocking characters. I love unlockables as is, and completing versus matches one after another and seeing that challenger approaching screen pop up is always exciting.

I'd never want a Smash Bros game without unlockable characters. When games like MK8DX or Mario Tennis Aces come right out of the gate with all the characters unlocked (no, the texture change for Metal Mario does not count) it feels suuuuuuper lame.

We used to be a proper country.

 

[Laniv]

I like unlocking characters because I like gameplay challenges being set and getting rewards for meeting them

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'm reminded of a tweet from I think Punk (a pretty notable fighting game player if you aren't aware) from last year where he was giving Smash a shot and wanted to play Ken, but was completely baffled about how you had to unlock everybody and thought it was ridiculous how much you had to do to get him. It's easy to say "oh well it only takes a few hours" but it's still like, completing classic mode routes for 5 different characters who you might not care about. I think for a game of Smash's roster size, having some unlocks is a good thing, but Ultimate definitely went way too far there. The majority of the roster should be playable from the start.

Took a minute to find but here.

 

[Noipoi]

Maybe there should be like an option or a cheat code you can enter in the menu to let you immediately unlock every character, if you’re the type who just wants to get to the point.

For those who enjoy the unlocking process, proceed as normal.

 

[ninjahmos]

When you unlock characters, they should reward you not only with the characters themselves, but also their home stages.

They used to do that in Brawl and Smash 4, right?

 

[Noipoi]

When you unlock characters, they should reward you not only with the characters themselves, but also their home stages.

And a five dollar bill and a McDonald’s Happy Meal and a pat on the head and a thumbs up saying “good job, kiddo!”

 

[SharkLord]

I like unlocking things, but Ultimate's process took a good long while and the limited, random rematches made things a pain in the ass if you failed to beat them the first time. There could at least be more specific, easier to manage criteria than just playing the game for hours of running through Classic Mode over and over again

 

[ninjahmos]

I know a lot of you guys want King Hippo as the second Punch-Out rep... but I think we might be sleeping on Mr. Sandman.

I'm not sorry.

 

[Noipoi]

I know a lot of you guys want King Hippo as the second Punch-Out rep... but I think we might be sleeping on Mr. Sandman.

Obligatory

 

[fogbadge]

To be honest I think wanting a character primarily on the basis of wanting more representation is perfectly valid lol. The sentiment you tend to see is that Smash reflects the videogame industry, which lacks a lot of major female/black protagonists who could be added in the first place. I think that's true to an extent, but it's also treating Smash like its roster is built entirely without human input. It's not like Smash is made by an AI which absorbs the videogame industry and spits it back out into a roster of what's most popular, it's still a human making the game and deciding who gets in based on a variety of factors. Not including a more diverse selection of characters is, ultimately, a choice, and Smash lacking so heavily in that regard is pretty obvious. I don't think it would hurt anyone if diversity in that regard was considered more. It's probably saying something that Chad Warden was making jokes about how Smash didn't have any black characters back in 2007 lol.

i think we're better off asking for better representation in gaming before we move onto smash

 

[Gengar84]

i think we're better off asking for better representation in gaming before we move onto smash

I think we can do both at the same time. It’s true that gaming in general could really benefit from more diversity in characters but there are already some great options to diversify Smash with existing characters.

Just one example of a character I’d love to see in Smash is Vi from Arcane/League of Legends. She’s just an awesome character in her own right and written very well but she’s also LGBT. She’s the main protagonist of a very popular show in a huge series so she’s definitely important enough of a character to be worth consideration outside of anything else. She’s on my list because I just really like her as a character but the added diversity she’d bring to Smash helps.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know a lot of you guys want King Hippo as the second Punch-Out rep... but I think we might be sleeping on Mr. Sandman.

Mr. Sandman is no star of Captain N. So no.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Guys, I have bad news. We're gonna have to deal with "Banban For Smash" fans next game: