Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Laniv]

I'm trying to think of possible options for a wacky stage like Miiverse or Electroplankton, but outside of Snipperclips maybe I'm drawing a total blank on wacky games made during the Switch era. Maybe that's just a me thing, since I don't really count things like Miitopia because despite being a goofy game, the locations would be played pretty straight for a Smash stage.

I got three words for you: Poké Floats 2.

Omega form is a giant Avalugg and Battlefield form has three Stunfisks as the platforms.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think if Smash was made today it would just have a Mario Kart roster basically.

I think if Mario Kart was made today it would just have a Smash roster basically.

The next Smash game discourse will be just this, won’t it?

The story of me and all my 8-bit picks.

"Ninja Gaiden used to be with it. But then they changed what "it" was."

 

[Guynamednelson]

Easier to snatch some PNGs than to make hundreds of models

Well it was really only Melee where most of the trophies were all-new models, but it's still easier to port hundreds of 2D assets vs. hundreds of 3D ones.

 

[superprincess]

I see people suggesting new Spirits all the time and it just baffles me like... there's nothing cool about PNGs that you can literally just google. To me, at least. It's not a novel idea either, Stickers from Brawl already served the same purpose and Spirit Battles are just Event Matches (with more quantity and less quality).

I truly hope the next Smash game tries to innovate or do something different with collectibles because PNGs aren't cutting it. Trophies were getting stale too by SSB4 — still infinitely better than Spirits, don't get me wrong — but their models were reused from other games in most cases. Just do something new like... original artwork, actual figurines that come in sets and make up dioramas, stamps, cards.... just something new.

 

[Noipoi]

Like it’s been said before, I’d be cool if they kept spirits as long as we get descriptions. That was the best part about the trophies imo.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I see people suggesting new Spirits all the time and it just baffles me like... there's nothing cool about PNGs that you can literally just google. To me, at least. It's not a novel idea either, Stickers from Brawl already served the same purpose and Spirit Battles are just Event Matches (with more quantity and less quality).

I truly hope the next Smash game tries to innovate or do something different with collectibles because PNGs aren't cutting it. Trophies were getting stale too by SSB4 — still infinitely better than Spirits, don't get me wrong — but their models were reused from other games in most cases. Just do something new like... original artwork, actual figurines that come in sets and make up dioramas, stamps, cards.... just something new.

I feel like Smash 4 was kinda starting to go that direction with the little Collection thing that let you set up little themed sets for your Trophies. If they'd had like themed backdrops and stuff, it would've been nice imo

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I see people suggesting new Spirits all the time and it just baffles me like... there's nothing cool about PNGs that you can literally just google. To me, at least. It's not a novel idea either, Stickers from Brawl already served the same purpose and Spirit Battles are just Event Matches (with more quantity and less quality).

I truly hope the next Smash game tries to innovate or do something different with collectibles because PNGs aren't cutting it. Trophies were getting stale too by SSB4 — still infinitely better than Spirits, don't get me wrong — but their models were reused from other games in most cases. Just do something new like... original artwork, actual figurines that come in sets and make up dioramas, stamps, cards.... just something new.

Honestly, this sounds really cool. Cards could potentially lend to an interesting TCG mode of some kind come to think of it - but I also really like the idea of like, figurines you can pose or something like that, that sounds pretty fun

 

[Gengar84]

I see people suggesting new Spirits all the time and it just baffles me like... there's nothing cool about PNGs that you can literally just google. To me, at least. It's not a novel idea either, Stickers from Brawl already served the same purpose and Spirit Battles are just Event Matches (with more quantity and less quality).

I truly hope the next Smash game tries to innovate or do something different with collectibles because PNGs aren't cutting it. Trophies were getting stale too by SSB4 — still infinitely better than Spirits, don't get me wrong — but their models were reused from other games in most cases. Just do something new like... original artwork, actual figurines that come in sets and make up dioramas, stamps, cards.... just something new.

I completely agree with this. They’re cool for the people that do like them but I never had any interest in Spirits either. I did enjoy looking at the trophies in past games and reading about the characters. Some of those ideas you shared could be a fun alternative. Especially if they can make some kind of simple game out of the cards like Final Fantasy’s Triple Tiad or Tetra Master.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the idea of Spirits being the new Event Matches is good in itself.

But they do get boring fast. They're also tedious to grind since you don't get enough mini-games to have an outright fun time doing so. Home Run Contest somewhat has it, but I wish we had a dedicated mode to it like we had in Smash 4's Trophy Rush, which allowed you to get Customs in bundles too.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think Spirits are basically more fun and diverse event matches and are a perfectly good replacement for that mode, but don't satisfy the role of replacing trophies. PNGs are obviously inherently gonna be less cool, but as people have said countless times, I really wish there was descriptions, especially since at the very least them just being PNGs means the depth of the pool of series that's pulled from is greater than ever.

The best part about spirits singleplayer wise is that you can quickly boot up the game and just go to the spirit boards and do a match for easy plentiful replayable single player content, because there's so many there's a lot more leeway for forgetting what each battle is like and so getting more replayability out of the mode in total. Obviously World of Light is a whole different can of worms. Hopefully the Switch 2 having more memory and cartridge space allows for something better in terms of the museum aspect.

 

[Perkilator]

I think Spirits and Trophies can co-exist to an extent; just have the trophies for anything that has a model specifically made for that Smash game (fighters, Assist Trophies, items, etc.) and do Spirits for everyone else.

 

[TheQuester]

A Smash level with horsehead guy prominently featured is scarcely worth thinking about.

What if the horsehead guy is the wtf character of the next smash? He could fight with the carrot of his pocket lol.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

What if the horsehead guy is the wtf character of the next smash? He could fight with the carrot of his pocket lol.

I've seen a pretty fun concept for him fighting with a pair of Joy-Cons, and then for his moveset to almost exclusively compose of him mimicking actions you take within the 1-2 Switch! games somewhere, though I can't for the life of me remember where

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

What if the horsehead guy is the wtf character of the next smash? He could fight with the carrot of his pocket lol.

He goin' do more than that.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This is a silly idea that would only appeal to me, but I sort of wish SSB would take a page out of Wonder and just allow you place standees of spirits for levels you make in stage builder. Have some be part of the background and some you can physically place in stage to knock down if you feel like it.

Give me the option of having a family of cardboard Belmonts in the back watch as I attack cutouts of Kremlings while music from Metroid is inexplicably playing. Heck if we're unlocking spirits let's get some physical use of them in some way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I've seen a pretty fun concept for him fighting with a pair of Joy-Cons

He constantly drifts towards the left

 

[Will]

"Ninja Gaiden used to be with it. But then they changed what "it" was."

You make it sound like Ninja Gaiden died with the NES and not because of a Wii U exclusive in 2012

 

[cashregister9]

I agree that Spirits are just a better version of event matches, they should keep them just for that

but honestly, I like the PNGs because it can give us official transparent full body renders of characters that don't necessarily have one.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You make it sound like Ninja Gaiden died with the NES and not because of a Wii U exclusive in 2012

14 years ago is still well past being "it".

 

[Gorgonzales]

I think the idea of Spirits being the new Event Matches is good in itself.

I think Spirits are basically more fun and diverse event matches and are a perfectly good replacement for that mode, but don't satisfy the role of replacing trophies.

I agree that Spirits are just a better version of event matches, they should keep them just for that

A little concerning how many people seem to think Spirit battles are better than event matches. They are NOT replacements for Event Matches.

While basic battling still plays a part, Event Matches have a more diverse array of objectives like protecting a Yoshi Egg or some Pikmin, reaching a goal, preventing a horde of G&W's from landing on your ship, making all opponents sleep or have flowers on their heads, etc. They put an interesting twist on Smash's mechanics and rules that you can't get in any other mode.

Spirit battles boil down to "kill the guy". They have a million different conditions or battle requirement combinations, but it's always just "kill the guy" with a different coat of paint every time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I see people suggesting new Spirits all the time and it just baffles me like... there's nothing cool about PNGs that you can literally just google. To me, at least. It's not a novel idea either, Stickers from Brawl already served the same purpose and Spirit Battles are just Event Matches (with more quantity and less quality).

I truly hope the next Smash game tries to innovate or do something different with collectibles because PNGs aren't cutting it. Trophies were getting stale too by SSB4 — still infinitely better than Spirits, don't get me wrong — but their models were reused from other games in most cases. Just do something new like... original artwork, actual figurines that come in sets and make up dioramas, stamps, cards.... just something new.

Considering the ginormous amount of characters represented. I think spirits are a necessary evil. Spirits work best for the sheer amount of characters represented. They're also easy marketing for other games.

If we go back to things like models and trophies, then the amount of content will be cut down significantly and if Brawl and Smash 4 were anything to go by, the quality would be sub par. The only time trophies truly shined was in Melee.

I've seen trading cards as a workable alternative. I think that's the best way to go. It's low cost, while having more potential for things like lore or descriptions than spirits.

 

[cashregister9]

View attachment 389534

A little concerning how many people seem to think Spirit battles are better than event matches. They are NOT replacements for Event Matches.

While basic battling still plays a part, Event Matches have a more diverse array of objectives like protecting a Yoshi Egg or some Pikmin, reaching a goal, preventing a horde of G&W's from landing on your ship, making all opponents sleep or have flowers on their heads, etc. They put an interesting twist on Smash's mechanics and rules that you can't get in any other mode.

Spirit battles boil down to "kill the guy". They have a million different conditions or battle requirement combinations, but it's always just "kill the guy" with a different coat of paint every time.

I mean obviously a wider variety of objectives would be better, I hope they go that route in the future.

but I just had more fun doing World Of Light and the Spirit boards than I did the Event Matches in any of the other games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Event Matches have a more diverse array of objectives

And those objectives are mostly just annoying.

I appreciate the simplicity of Spirit Battles.

Considering the ginormous amount of characters represented. I think spirits are a necessary evil. Spirits work best for the sheer amount of characters represented. They're also easy marketing for other games.

If they were more complex, we wouldn't have 1000+ of them. And since each one represents something from gaming, I'm glad we got as many as we did.

I've seen trading cards as a workable alternative. I think that's the best way to go. It's low cost, while having more potential for things like lore or descriptions than spirits.

Collectable cards is always a fun aesthetic. I'd love to see it for Spirits.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

View attachment 389534

A little concerning how many people seem to think Spirit battles are better than event matches. They are NOT replacements for Event Matches.

While basic battling still plays a part, Event Matches have a more diverse array of objectives like protecting a Yoshi Egg or some Pikmin, reaching a goal, preventing a horde of G&W's from landing on your ship, making all opponents sleep or have flowers on their heads, etc. They put an interesting twist on Smash's mechanics and rules that you can't get in any other mode.

Spirit battles boil down to "kill the guy". They have a million different conditions or battle requirement combinations, but it's always just "kill the guy" with a different coat of paint every time.

There are multiple spirit matches with more unique conditions, like the Jiggy spirit for example. It's mostly just that there are a gazillion spirits and 99% of them are just defeating the opposing fighter in a direct battle, so the amount of weirder spirits is comparitively less.

I would also say this is by no means a fundamental issue with spirits, it's the easiest fix in the world, just increase the quantity of weirder matches with weirder conditions. I think spirits are better than event matches because having it tied to a character is more fun and appealing than having more generic scenarios even with the more creative event matches, and while I really don't care at all about the enhancement aspect, it adds another dimension to it that I think is more rewarding. They are functionally the same thing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, more objectives would be good. That's the sole downside, but it's still overall executed better. With that many particular Spirits, having much more unique objectives isn't that easy to set up.

That said, they're far easier to get into, have more character choices, always give you a reward when done(and said reward always is something you can interact with), and you get to travel a world as well while using said Spirits for unique interactions. Smash 4 had a neat idea with the "big world" thing, but it's nothing like Ultimate's Adventure Mode.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The trading card concept with spirts could also play into certain mini-games if the team felt that such an inclusion could add to the overall package of Smash. I recall rolling my eyes at the Joustus game in Shovel Knight King of Cards at first before slowly growing to like it and becoming addicted to getting all the various cards. Something along those lines in SSB (as much as some would lament the resources spent on it) would be a fun addition if done right.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Not an interesting opinion at all but if Mii fighters return I hope they add a "Random Mii" button to the character select, That picks a random one of your Mii's/

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Considering the ginormous amount of characters represented. I think spirits are a necessary evil. Spirits work best for the sheer amount of characters represented. They're also easy marketing for other games.

If we go back to things like models and trophies, then the amount of content will be cut down significantly and if Brawl and Smash 4 were anything to go by, the quality would be sub par. The only time trophies truly shined was in Melee.

I've seen trading cards as a workable alternative. I think that's the best way to go. It's low cost, while having more potential for things like lore or descriptions than spirits.

I don’t think this would happen, but I’d love it if in the next game Spirits (or its successor) were given newly made 2D art. The collectible cards in UMvC3’s Heroes and Heralds mode come to mind.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

The trading card concept with spirts could also play into certain mini-games if the team felt that such an inclusion could add to the overall package of Smash. I recall rolling my eyes at the Joustus game in Shovel Knight King of Cards at first before slowly growing to like it and becoming addicted to getting all the various cards. Something along those lines in SSB (as much as some would lament the resources spent on it) would be a fun addition if done right.

Triple Triad/Gwent/Queen's Blood with the trophy-equivalents sounds like it could be fun, I'd be a lot more interested in that as a practical use for collectibles as opposed to enhancements. I feel like the issue is that being pretty at odds with the rest of Smash's gameplay, there's a reason those kinds of minigames are most common in massive open world games which already have tons of content and diversions from the core gameplay loop, as opposed to Smash where the fighting is the entire core gameplay loop without much else.

A guy on youtube I saw proposed the idea of making the new collectibles artwork done up by different artists like a lot of people are suggesting. I think that would be a cool in-between, but definitely pretty expensive and more difficult to license in aspects. Like, very rough but the Smash banner has 89 characters (minus the background and the aspect of them needing to be cohesive together), and the amount of trophies in Smash 4 Wii U's base game was 716, so it would be whatever Nintendo paid Yusuke Nakano for the banner 8x over if they wanted to get a high number of collectibles in there. That's also assuming there would be a low count of artists as opposed to a more diverse selection. Can't really say for sure how expensive that commissioning would be, so it's something to consider.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I see people suggesting new Spirits all the time and it just baffles me like... there's nothing cool about PNGs that you can literally just google. To me, at least. It's not a novel idea either, Stickers from Brawl already served the same purpose and Spirit Battles are just Event Matches (with more quantity and less quality).

I truly hope the next Smash game tries to innovate or do something different with collectibles because PNGs aren't cutting it. Trophies were getting stale too by SSB4 — still infinitely better than Spirits, don't get me wrong — but their models were reused from other games in most cases. Just do something new like... original artwork, actual figurines that come in sets and make up dioramas, stamps, cards.... just something new.

I dont know, i think it's cool that the spirit battles are designed to be cool references to the PNG in question, and once you get the reference it's pretty neat.

 

[Pupp135]

So I have been thinking about this hypothetical alot, Even though it’s something that would never happen.
So the idea is, They make a new Smash game, But it has the same roster structure as Smash 64.
So 8 starting characters, Plus 4 unlockable characters who have to reuse assets from the first 8.
Also no 3rd Party characters allowed (Except Bayonetta because she’s basically 2nd Party at this point.)
It’s interesting to think about what characters would be chosen in the present with such a small size, To represent all of Nintendo.

I’ll make two iterations, a 12 character one like SSB64 and a 20 character one like PASBR and NASB

Spoiler: 12

()
Reasons
From the original 8, Pikmin is probably the only questionable one, but Nintendo seems to hold this franchise with high regard.
The lack of a Pokemon is highly controversial, but I don’t think The Pokemon Company would want a character in a crossover platform fighter had this been the first entry instead of sixth.
Chrom is a case where I feel like an Awakening character would more likely take the spot of a mascot here.
Luigi and Isabelle are still based on Mario and Villager respectively.
I feel like Pyra could use Chrom’s skeleton as a base, and Mythra was a Pyra semi-clone.
I’d like Peach and Samus, but they can’t really reuse assets easily.

Spoiler: 20

(DJ Octavio)(/)

Reasons
Pokemon is excluded for similar reasons.
I find it hard to see Nintendo only choose one character from Mario, Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, or Splatoon.
I just think Aegis would be a cooler idea here than Shulk.

 

[ninjahmos]

Y'know what I think would be pretty funny?

What if they used Happy Together for the next Smash game's reveal?

 

[TheQuester]

Super Spicy Hot Take: I prefer Events over Spirits, i liked the mini-story description each event had, plus stuff like All-Star Brawl, All-Star Melee events were also fun.
I'm not sure if they'll return, but i would definitely accept 'em.
I have a feeling we'll get plenty of new modes next game...

 

[Opossum]

I've seen a pretty fun concept for him fighting with a pair of Joy-Cons, and then for his moveset to almost exclusively compose of him mimicking actions you take within the 1-2 Switch! games somewhere, though I can't for the life of me remember where

I think that might have been mine? I did a sort of joke moveset for him after the game came out lol.

Spoiler: Horace Showpony

Jab - A three part attack. Dual wielding a Joy-Con and a Smart Phone, Horace thrusts one arm forward, then the other, and finally finishes with a cross slash.
Dash Attack - Horace dashes forward holding a relay baton, his head flapping in the breeze as he goes.
Up Tilt - Horace pulls out a jump rope and begins jumping rope. Every upswing of the rope does damage if it hits the foe.
Forward Tilt - Horace pulls out his phone and flashes the camera forward, blinding the opponent to do damage.
Down Tilt - Horace begins to vigorously do squats, hurting the foe if they get in the way.

Neutral Aerial - Horace spins a jump rope around him in a circle.
Forward Aerial - Horace swipes an ice cream cone forward. This move has a tipper mechanic, as it is a triple scoop. If the middle scoop (vanilla) is the point of connection, it does normal damage and knockback. If the bottom scoop (chocolate) does, it does a lower amount of both. If the top scoop (mocha), does, it does a higher amount of both.
Back Aerial - Horace takes out an auction gavel and slams it down behind him in an arc.
Up Aerial - Horace takes out a covered skillet and uncovers it, scalding whoever's above him with white hot steam.
Down Aerial - Horace hides his JoyCon in a box and drops it below him, becoming a highly damaging fast falling projectile.

Pummel: Musical Chairs - Horace grabs the foe and sits them down in a chair.
Forward Throw - Horace takes out his katana and slashes the sitting foe.
Back Throw - Horace runs to the other side of the chair and hip checks it, sending it flying.
Up Throw - Horace attaches balloons to the chair before it flies up and explodes.
Down Throw - Horace stuffs the foe, chair and all, into a comically small box before it explodes into confetti.

Up Smash - Horace pumps up a massive balloon that explodes overhead, sending foes flying.
Forward Smash - Horace holds his ninjatō overhead before swinging it downward in a slicing motion.
Down Smash - Horace crouches down with his katana before doing a single, strong strike ahead of him.

Neutral Special: Quiz Show - Horace brings out a podium in a counter-styled attack. If it activates, a minigame begins. When the Go! symbol appears, both Horace and the foe must press either the A or B button. If the foe picks the opposite of what Horace pressed, they take the damage from their last move instead. If they pick the same as Horace, Horace takes the damage. This needlessly complicated and very unfun counter attack represents the confused and cumbersome design philosophy of Everybody 1-2 Switch.

Side Special: Hip Bump - Taking a page from Peach, Horace literally gets his rear in gear and flies forward ass first into the foe. This is Horace's strongest kill move.

Up Special: UFO - Horace gets abducted by a UFO and gets flown upwards before getting beamed back out of it. Was he abducted, or was it his all along?

Down Special: Statues - Horace summons The Kid from the Statues minigame, whose gaze forces all those who bear witness to it to stop dead in their tracks. If Horace uses this move while the foe is facing him, they'll be stunned due to making eye contact. It fails if they're not looking your way.

Final Smash: EVERYBODY - Horace whistles, and several UFOs appear which drop off 99 additional Horaces. His game supports 100 players, after all. They swarm the stage, heavily damaging the foe, until Horace Prime appears and has them abducted away with the foe, instantly KOing them.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Super Spicy Hot Take: I prefer Events over Spirits, i liked the mini-story description each event had, plus stuff like All-Star Brawl, All-Star Melee events were also fun.
I'm not sure if they'll return, but i would definitely accept 'em.
I have a feeling we'll get plenty of new modes next game...

Oh man, I completely forgot about All-Star. I either never finished that in Ultimate's incarnation or only finished it once, and I would prefer if it went back to how it used to be lol

EDIT: The events too, but I mostly just mean All-Star as a single player mode, should stress lol

 

[Noipoi]

We absolutely need the classic All-Star mode back.

 

[ninjahmos]

We absolutely need the classic All-Star mode back.

Yes, and for that, they should bring back the Rest Area theme from Kirby Super Star, which they used for Melee's All-Star Mode.

 

[superprincess]

Super Spicy Hot Take: I prefer Events over Spirits, i liked the mini-story description each event had, plus stuff like All-Star Brawl, All-Star Melee events were also fun.
I'm not sure if they'll return, but i would definitely accept 'em.
I have a feeling we'll get plenty of new modes next game...

As kids, my brothers and I would always make up little stories and act them out in-game. Contextualizing Smash Bros matches was unreasonably fun for us. Needless to say I loved Event mode because it was like that, but officially in the game! I loved reading the little descriptions behind them all. I would even replay some, and I adored the fact that there were co-op variants! Comes in super handy when you have siblings.

Spirits are just not the same at all. First off there's so many of them that they just turn forgettable and grindy. There's no description or context for the fights, it's just a reference that you may or may not get. I admit I didn't get most of them and even the ones I got were like "oh that's cool" and then the same damn gameplay every time. The overwhelming majority of them just came down to KOing a CPU. Which no thank you, I could still do when I was 5 years old playing Brawl. We didn't need a game mode dedicated to that.

EDIT: God I forget how hard Ultimate butchered All-Star mode... still kinda salty about that. If they were so concerned with it being too long, just add variants that allow you to pick specific limits (64/Melee/Brawl/4/Ultimate).

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I suck at Ultimate's All-Star mode but I don't know if the general consensus on why the new All-Star mode is considered bad is because it's too difficult, or just that the format is less creative and fun than the Classic Mode/gauntlet-style version of the mode in previous games.

Either way, I think the original version needs to return as well.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I suck at Ultimate's All-Star mode but I don't know if the general consensus on why the new All-Star mode is considered bad is because it's too difficult, or just that the format is less creative and fun than the Classic Mode/gauntlet-style version of the mode in previous games.

Either way, I think the original version needs to return as well.

imo, the thing that makes it bad is that it's difficult and it's exactly the same everytime because the characters spawn in release order, as opposed to being randomized like Melee and Brawl (I know Smash 4 didn't randomize it either, but I also didn't like that one much because it was a set order that you had to do like 40+ times).

You also get basically no rewards for it, since the rewards boil down to 1000 Spirit Points (given for KO'ing 3 opponents), a Medium Snack for boosting Spirit levels (given for KO'ing one opponent with a Meteor Smash), and the Wedding Mario Spirit that you get by damaging three opponents with Luigi's taunt, and that's it. At least Smash 4 gave you Final Smash trophies even if it got tedious after a while.